Diddy Sentencing, Robinson Death Penalty Potential, and D4vd Trunk Mystery, with MK True Crime Contributors | Ep. 1163

28:33I mean, the inhumanity with which he behaved toward these women is seared. And I'm sitting here at a desk. I wasn't the judge in the courtroom looking at the women telling these stories. Well, let's not forget about the arson as well of Kid Cudi, right, Megan? And I'll tell you another thing that's in the back of this judge's mind, and I'd be interested in Mark's thoughts on this. But, look, the L.A. County criminal system is almost, under George Gascon, it really was, almost like a failed state. And you look at some of these crimes of violence that he heard, like the Cassie Ventura video that we all saw, like the arson of Kid Cudi.

29:13All of that happened in Los Angeles. And you're talking about, you know, this is the L.A. City Council bought hook, line and sinker into the defund the police stuff. Right now there's 8 ,600 sworn officers at LAPD. It's the lowest it's been since 1995. And a lot of cases like this go uninvestigated, unsolved, unpursued in L.A. County. All of these other crimes, these were state cases. And he wasn't convicted of any of those because there was no federal equivalent. They wrapped him in on the RICO stuff. But in that judge's mind, he's got to know that L.A. is a mess. Under George Gascon, who was recently voted out, and I think Gascon was one of the worst things that ever happened to public safety in the marginalized town of Los Angeles ever.

30:03But that's also, I think, going to factor in all these crimes that were not properly investigated, that were not properly pursued, that the judge heard all about. That's what was so interesting about his statement today. I'm going to consider these other crimes of violence. And it's almost like there's an element there that the reason why we're seeing so many federal prosecutions out of LA crimes, and we've seen a bunch of them. Matthew Perry is another example of that. There were state charges all over that case. the feds took it up because gascon and the current the the former stark charge at six we got a new guy now nathan hockman who's a thousand times better i think mark will disagree you're gonna now you're really now you're really throwing down on me out there nathan hockman you want to talk about a failed da's office jesus you got to go in front of these people and deal with them still I know, I know.

30:56But, you know, Matt and I will agree to disagree here. I've got a, you know, by the way, the intercontinental incident itself, so people understand, took place well before George Gascon was ever voted in. I mean, talk about something that was nine years ago. And it was very interesting. Yeah. And well, it was buried for a lot of reasons. I mean, not the least of which, Cassie, you know, the problem with this case is everybody went first to a civil lawyer. Nobody was reporting anything to the police. Everybody wanted a paycheck. I mean, to the point where there was even one of the guys who testified at the trial and said, no, I'm not going to sue.

31:38What does he do? Two weeks ago, he sues. So, I mean, I'm in full disclosure. My office has defended a number of these things. And each one is, frankly, more ridiculous than the other. That's having been said. I think Matt is spot on when he says the judge sat through this. this judge is young and new to the bench. However, he does meet one of the criteria that I like of judges. I like judges who took a pay cut to get onto the bench, as opposed to it's the best job they ever had. And this guy took a massive pay cut to be on the bench. To me, that gives them street cred in the sense that they're there because they want to do what's right.

32:24And so So I say that even though I think this is not going to end well today as we're taping this. But he's he's a very thoughtful, incredibly bright former Supreme Court clerk and was a at the top of his game when he was in private practice. Well, I know you're talking about L.A. and practice there. This this course of this case, of course, is in federal court in New York. But we've had similar problems in New York. I mean, everybody knows the problems that the George Soros backed DA here revolving door of criminals. They don't hold them to account. I mean, it is kind of a miracle that this happened, though it's federal court and it was a notorious defendant.

33:01Listen to this, Matt. Inner City Press reporting. Oh, no, sorry. This is CNN that the defense appears to be playing the race card. That's our interpretation. Quote, Mr. Combs. This is the defense. His attorney, Nicole Westmoreland. Mr. Combs starting his own record label as a black young male back then was almost kind of jokable, but he had the audacity to do it anyway. This changed the industry and it changed the culture, but more importantly, it changed countless individuals' lives because what people recognize is that if Mr. Combs could do it, then they could do it too. Stand by. By the way, this attorney herself is black.

33:39She goes on, this is per the New York Times, and started crying. There's, Matt, we've been over this. There's no crying in criminal defense practice. She goes on to say, no, none, no. She breaks down in tears while discussing the moguls' importance in their community via his entrepreneurial work in television, fashion, liquor, and music as a writer, producer, artist, and label owner. Quote, Mr. Combs wearing all of those hats, she said in tears, sent a message that you can do it. You don't just have to be signed to a label. You can be the label. Okay. Maybe that could work in front of a jury. I'm going to guess Judge Subramanian is like, is it lunchtime yet?

34:24He came out today, Judge Subramanian, and the first thing he said was the government complained that Mia, who was supposed to testify or give a five-minute impact statement, was not going to because of the letter by the defense. The judge chastised the defense for the tone of the letter. So I'm going to take a page out of the Judge Sabermanian book and say, when you were reading that, Megan, your tone seemed to imply something there. It matched the words. That's thanks to my acting in my blonde origin video, Mark, and in my Megan Markle spoofs. I've honed my acting skills. Your tone has to match the words.

35:06You have raised the bar, Megan. I'm almost, I sit here in awe of the tone that you can invoke. Thank you. Oh, I might be getting an Emmy. So, you know, you're right. The show is among 200 others that might be getting an Emmy for best podcast. 200, 300. I don't know. They didn't nominate Megan Markle's Confessions of a Female Founder. So I'm not going to go under protest that she was snubbed. Go ahead, Matt, your thoughts on playing the race card and on crying as defense counsel to the judge.

35:41Look, it is a it's such a trope at this point. I think that's an eye roller for the judge. I hate to say it, but also let's not forget the the people that were most affected negatively by this were also they were black. Right. Or most of them. And it's number one, it's going to fall on deaf ears. Number two, when you do a sentencing, it's not far off in a way from journalism, Megan, in that your credibility is everything. And when you go and you step up and you do these performative things, it's kind of like when Mark and I do bench trials in juvenile court. As a prosecutor or as a defense lawyer, you really have to tone down the performative nonsense because you're insulting the intelligence of the court when you do that.

36:24And you hit the nail on the head. In front of a jury, that might just work with one or two of them. But in front of a sentencing judge, when you do that, you're running the risk of blowing your credibility. And if you do that sort of crying nonsense, if you really do have an important point and you really do have something the court should consider, you're going to lose that by going all in on that dramatic BS. And that's what that makes me think of a mutual friend of ours who will remain nameless. I was trying a case in federal court downtown and in the old Spring Street building. And my co-counsel got up and did something.

37:08And the federal judge peered over the bench at him and said, Mr. You've been in state court too long in front of the jury. and that you knew at that point yes uh-oh oh that's never good well i heard there was some drama over on mk true crime mark garagos that involved you i don't know if this involves crying or not but i wanted to show it let's see here's thought zero with garagos and mark iglarsh arguing over diddy looks like i'm playing devil's advocate because i got two people who who clearly think that he should uh walk free with a hug and apology and reimbursement of legal fees Well, wait a second.

37:46How do you get a hug? Apologies. He's been in custody for over a year. He hasn't seen his family. You wouldn't turn it down, Gary Gose. Come on. Listen to me for one second. I'm going to give you, I'll let you play devil's advocate. I'm going to. I'll make it, I'll actually make it a little bit easier for you. I think the over and under here, you know what an over and under is, Mark? I know you don't have sex, but do you gamble? You go to Vegas, you don't have sex. You gamble at least. Two things, okay, as I play devil's advocate. Number one, I do have sex when I go to Vegas, but with my wife.

38:22That was the point I was making. I can see a man that fire. Still TMI. Still TMI. This is why we love the MK True Crime Network. That's today's episode. People got to go download that and watch the full discussion. Way to get his goat up there, Garagos. Yes. Is that the same shirt, Mark? Yes, it is. I wanted to make sure. You didn't change. Megan, they told me. Come on. They told me, wear the same stuff because you're going to be showing the sod. So I had to go find it. Well, it's nice. It pops, that royal blue. Guys, thank you both so much. You can catch more of Garagos and Murphy on MK True Crime.

39:00And speaking of Mark Eiglarsh, he's up next along with Arthur Idalla, who is Ghislaine Maxwell's attorney. Maybe he'll have thoughts on the prison he might go to. If you are stressed about back taxes, maybe you missed that April deadline or your books are a mess, don't wait. The IRS is cracking down. Penalties add up fast. 5 % per month, up to 25 % just for not filing. But there is help. Tax Network USA can take the burden off your shoulders and stop the spiral before it gets worse. They have helped thousands of Americans, whether you're an employee, a small business owner, or haven't filed in years.

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40:38on these stages and I'm going to say all the things that we say all the time on this show. We're going to make it safe for me. We're going to make it safe for my team and my guests and you. We're going coast to coast and do something really important, which is say what's true and what's real to honor him. I really now more than ever would love to see you all face to face. God, I would love to see you face to face. I need to see you face to face. I am doing this tour and I would love for you to join me. MeganKelley.com for the tickets.

41:14With me now, Arthur Idalla and Mark Eiglarsh, the other half of that fun exchange you just saw with Garagos. They are both stars of MK True Crime as well. Don't you want to download and subscribe MK True Crime? I mean, these are stars. You honestly, you will not find a collection of lawyers that is both super talented and great at communicating, right? Like they're entertaining. They know how to get up and down on a story. Those are very rare combinations in a lawyer. I have to tell you helps if they're actual trial lawyers, like all of our guys are anyway, go to MK true crime.com for all the links, podcast platforms, and YouTube.

41:49You will love it. It's on fire. Thanks to these two and the last two and the next two and others guys. Great to see you. Same here. Thanks Megan. Very kind of you. That's the nicest things that Megan has ever said about me and Mark. It's usually a two pain to the next. They talk over each other. They're la la la la la. I mean, I got to really sell the channel. We'll get back to reality. No, no, it's true. You know, I mean, every word. Okay. Let's pick up where we left off with the others on Diddy. There's a woman named Nicole Westmoreland, who's a lawyer for Combs. She happens to be black, which is relevant to what I'm going to tell you.

42:24She's standing up, like arguing for his life, basically trying to get the sentence to the bare minimum. It continues her emotional appeal to the judge. I think we're quoting here from CNN still or the New York times, um, through sniffles and tears by insisting that her client was indeed remorseful quote. I will tell you that Mr. Combs has been sitting in a jail cell for 13 months. She said he's clear headed. He's drug free. He's determined he's focused and And he's remorseful. I can look the court in the eye and tell you that he's remorseful because I spend almost every single day speaking to Mr.

43:02Combs. Your honor, he gets it. Simply put, said Miss Westmoreland. So are you starting to feel a little wobbly on, you know, a harsh sentence for Diddy, Arthur? Well, the one thing I can tell you is she probably did talk to him every day. You know, Megan, in the very beginning of his arrest, his legal problems, I was asked if I wanted to go meet with him to be retained on the case. And I was like, sure, why not? They're like, well, we're just going to let you know one thing. I was like, what? Like one of his requirements is, and I don't remember who he was, I think he wanted me there four days a week in prison or five days a week in prison to visit him.

43:43I said, look, I'm not in prison. You know, he's in prison. So I do know he gets a lot of attention from his lawyers in the MDC, which is just not a very fun place for a lawyer to be, except if you have singles on you, because then you get to go to the sandwich and potato chip machine and buy your client a sandwich and potato chips. And they're very, very happy and grateful for that. That's like the big deal when you go in. What kind of sandwich can you get in there? Not bad. They actually, it's a refrigerated machine and they load it up and then even have a couple of kosher sandwiches for the orthodox clients.

44:15Not bad. What a low culinary bar, Arthur. You can get some roast beef. Those sandwiches are disgusting. They're there for a rotating. Especially for an Italian. Italian from Brooklyn. He knows I eat. Compared to the food, compared to the food that they're actually getting in the MVC, they're thrilled with those sandwiches. They do shake us down for dollars. I will tell you this. And, you know, between Mark and I, we've done dozens and dozens and dozens of these federal sentencing. And because it's really what you do in federal court now a lot. It's a lot of plea bargaining and then sentencing.

44:44And unlike state court where you can cut a deal with the prosecutor in federal court, you can only cut a guideline range with the prosecutor. And then the judge decides the ultimate sentence. And I don't know how I would feel about having four different lawyers speak to the judge on behalf of the client's behalf. You know, I think in my opinion, it's maybe two if you split one up. Like I'll talk about who the individual is and then my partner will talk about the actual crime or what they were convicted of or what they weren't convicted of. I heard you say earlier there's no crying in the courtroom.

45:19I mean, I have handled some very, very sad cases and I've become very somber, but I've never shed a tear. There's no crying. A league of their own. She's crying, sir. She's crying. One of the few times, the only time I cried, and I waited until I got in the hallway, is when I represented someone who I knew was absolutely innocent. Factually, factually innocent. And when I got to hear not guilty 43 times, I did go in the hallway and cry. I did the same. Oh, that's nice. It's like tears of relief. Well, of course. I think this is manufactured. I think this woman's playing. She thinks it's 2020 post-George Floyd and that if she is a black woman, turns on the waterworks about how much Sean Combs has contributed to the world and the thought of him going behind bars after being such an inspo.

46:05She's hoping to touch something in the judge's heart that I doubt is there. Well, Megan, let me let me tell you, if you're scoffing is because you think that maybe he doesn't deserve those words and maybe it's manufactured, that's fair. but what she's doing is ensuring due process. And that is, she's gotta do her job and Arthur and I will do whatever it takes if we think it's going to help our client. In this case, obviously she is telling the judge, I promise you, I'm there every day and he has changed. Now, whether that's real or not, who knows? Maybe she does believe it, but believability and accuracy are two different things.

46:42Maybe that's what she's relaying to the judge that she's seeing in Diddy, that diddy's just turning it on. Or maybe he did change. The point is, that's her job. Her job is do whatever she can for the client. I don't think it's going to matter one bit to this judge. I think he's already got his mind made up. I think that he's heard all of this before. They're used to it. They check the boxes. In all these cases, we make sure our clients accept full responsibility and do all we can to show remorse. Even personal accounts from the lawyers, check that box. We all do it. Ultimately, the judge sat through this trial.

47:17He sees the conduct. He'll include what he thinks is relevant and move that towards sentencing and give him what he thinks is appropriate. And, you know, let me just give you let me give you a little bit more color and then I'll give it to you. CNN reporting that, again, Westmoreland is discussing charter school. I'm sorry, this is so obvious. It's like this judge is he didn't just fall off the turnip truck discussing the charter schools that Sean Combs opened in impoverished communities where she says the public schools were inadequate. Also, a vote or die campaign that Combs participated in, quote, changed the way voting campaigns happen to this day.

47:57He basically is responsible for changing the way we vote. Hold on. Put aside Diddy. I don't like Diddy at all. I don't like what he's done, all that stuff. But she's doing her job. If God forbid it was someone you love, that's fair. All right. So hold on, Mark. Here's the thing. First of all, I just have to say, because I'm looking at the shot, that verdict I cried on, that's the picture right over my shoulder, right before the verdict was read. The little small one with the orange background? Yep. That's me sitting there. The client is cool as a cucumber. I was a mess. But anyway. And here's mine, by the way.

48:31This is actually me crying when Scott Peterson, not the not not Garagos is Peterson, but the other one, the alleged coward of Broward, whatever, innocent. And finally, you get that relief because the jurors who took four days should have taken four minutes and you finally get the outcome. The one from the Stoneman. That was the bragging portion of the show. I like it. But, you know, it is further evidence. You guys are the real deal. You both were prosecutors, now defense attorneys. You're in court all the time. That's why you work so well on Kelly Scored and on MK True Crime, because you actually know what you're talking about.

49:04Unlike half the legal eagles we see on TV who never practiced law or who just went to law school for a couple of years. Go ahead, Arthur. Let me address what what's going on with her bragging about P. Diddy's accomplishments in life. If he was not a public figure, you would say, Your Honor, I know you've read our 40 page report and all the letters and all that. And I'm not here to gild the lily. And I know you understand all that. And maybe you do like a little top three list. But, you know, I think what really stands out is he started his own chapter of the Boy Scouts. However, and Mark and I have both been in this position, when you represent a high profile client and there's going to be media in there, often the client says to you, can you please say A, B, and C, and that I did this and I helped cure cancer and I did St.

49:55Jude's Children thing? because the, you know, the daily news and the post, they're not going to read your a hundred page submission, but they are going to be in the courtroom. And please, for me and for the sake of my wife and my children, can you please make sure the media hears all the good things I did? So he's basically like, gild away. Here's the lily. Oh, of course. Hey, Arthur, can you mention to the judge that I said, God bless you to someone who sneezed this morning, whatever it takes. whatever it takes. Right, you're talking about jail time, so I get that. Here's, we mentioned this in the first segment, Mark, but what do you make of this?

50:31Because the prosecutor, Christy Slavik, did get up there and they're reporting that she earned some wide eyes and opened mouths when she told the judge Sean Combs has booked speaking engagements in Miami for next week, seemingly under the expectation that he would be let off with a life sentence. That is the height of hubris, she said to the court. no no i don't listen i would i would get up there and say judge that was zoom appearances that is it was zoom appearances judge zoom from prison judge zoom appearances god no you cannot let that happen you you would have to say that is not accurate at all um period judge and just neutralize tape from his jailhouse call that's bad that is that is really that is really bad i mean it's really because all of that stuff that she's saying and he wrote about remorse and i'm back and i'm good and i'm prayerful and that just is like and i'm gonna get out of here and i'm already got a gig lined up i'm gonna put some money in my pocket yeah that's but i give this judge more credibility.

51:37I give him more credit than that. That type of stuff is not what he's going to consider when it comes time to make this sentence. I think he sat through and saw a lot of abhorrent conduct, a lot that he was acquitted for. But if he can ever bring any of that in and sprinkle it and label it relevant conduct and get him up to the seven years or so that probation is recommending, I think that's where he's going to land. It's better to have him possibly buying your remorseful line than thinking, what a douchebag. He actually is booking speaking engagements. They all know that. Megan, my mother watches this, Megan.

52:14My mother watches this. Mine too, mine too. My mom always congratulate me. Oh, you managed to make it through a show without the F-bomb. All right, stand by. There's always next hour. We'll be right back. Let's face it. Big tech has gotten too powerful through the smartphones we use every day. They track our every move, decide what we see, and even can censor what we say, as you know. All that data collected about us sold to the highest bidder. Even more concerning, these platforms now hold more control over free speech than the government itself. America was built on free speech, on privacy, and the right to speak your mind without fear of being silenced or canceled.

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53:59on tour as well. You can actually meet these gentlemen. Go to MeganKelley.com to get your tickets for the Megan Kelly live tour. We are selling out in some venues, so please go today, MeganKelley.com. All right, guys, here's the latest from inside the courtroom. His kids are now testifying to the judge, emphasizing he is a changed man, says CNN. Sean Diddy Combs' son, Quincy Brown, is now speaking on his behalf. We're going to love him unconditionally through his struggles, but in front of you and in front of us is a changed man. Our father has learned a major lesson week after week. We've seen him evolve something we haven't seen in 15 years.

54:35He's completely transformed. Justin says he speaks to Diddy every day, several times a day. He said his father is now drug free and has refound his purpose. I can truly sincerely say he's changed for the better. Your honor, I believe my father still has so much more to give to the world and more importantly, so much more to give to his children. Now they're emphasizing his lessons on how to treat women. Inner City Press, Christian Combs, he told me to treat women like a queen. And I do. Do as I do. Do as I say, not as I do. No, that was my editorializing. I see in his eyes as his twin that he has changed.

55:15Next up, Jesse Combs. I'm 18, says Jesse. Starts crying. When my mother died, I was just a little girl. I remember my dad sitting us down. Jesse Combs. It helped me survive when I just wanted my mom. Then comes Chance Combs, his daughter. He's changed, crying. Sorry. He speaks with a clear mind. And then there's Delilah Combs. We watch our two-year-old sister. She cannot grow up fatherlessness. Ah, this is all par for the course, except for the women part, Arthur. No, but it is just, I want to emphasize what you just said. It is par for the course. Mark and I do this all the time. Like you go in and you talk about all the good things this person has done and who they've helped.

55:52And like literally I've had next door neighbors say, look, when I had cancer treatments, you know, he drove me to get the cancer treatments every day and he didn't have to. And then, of course, the prosecutor saying, yes, but Mr. Ida was leaving out. He stole a hundred million dollars from American Express and his white collar fraud thing. So, you know, that's the prosecutor's side. Really sweet in between the beatings. Yeah, right. So, Megan, let me tell you how I handle these things. First of all, by the way, it would have been cute if the kid said, my dad has changed so much, he only uses lube on Thursdays now.

56:23So, okay, let me move forward. That's Mark Iglage, folks. I'll take the hate mail. They say don't be funny. All right, listen. So here's how I approach these things, right? I pretend as if we got an outcome that we don't want. And if somehow my higher power allows me to turn back the clock and do it all over again, how would I do it? I'd include every single kid that is willing to testify. if I think that might hit the button on the judge. So you don't know what buttons are gonna work, if anything. So you hit every single thing. I make sure the acceptance of responsibility is perfect, that there's nothing more my client could say or do to show that he has changed.

57:00You put the kids in there. Every single act of community service is there. Every letter that you can possibly get from anyone, it goes, so you press all the buttons and then ultimately you've done everything you could, whatever the sentence is you can live with professionally. Cassie, one of his victims, she wrote a letter asking the judge to weigh her suffering, talking about how she's worried he's going to come after her, a legit worry given his past behavior. And Diddy wrote a letter, I lost my way. He says, over the past year, there's been so many times I wanted to give up. There have been some days I thought I'd be better off dead.

57:37The old me died in jail and a new version of me was reborn. Prison will change you or kill you. I choose to live. He's been teaching a six week program called free game in prison. I don't just teach about my success. I also teach about my mistakes and failures. I mean, that could cut against letting him out earlier. If the judge thinks he could help these guys in prison learn to like come out entrepreneurial. He talks about his 84 year old mother who needs him, his seven children who need him. He should have thought about that before. And then here they're playing an 11 minute video in court, the defense is we've cut about a minute of it trying to make him look like, you know, Ward Cleaver.

58:16Here's a little bit of that. I come from New York. I grew up in Harlem. I used to have to wear a uniform every day, had to get up early in the morning, had to travel to go to school. I worked hard just like you guys are working. this country and this world we live in may have plans for y 'all. He's talking to kids. I didn't listen to that, and I don't want y 'all to listen to it either. Y 'all are great. Y 'all are kings. Y 'all are queens. Y 'all are leaders. How old are you? Two. How old are you? Two. Two, you got a two. That's two. My name is Pookie the Bird. Pookie.

59:06Happy birthday.

59:12Okay. That's good stuff, Megan. Megan, that's good stuff. It is. I agree with you, Mark. It does remind you. You softening up, Megan? No, not even a little bit. But I recognize it as good lawyering because he is, even though he's a criminal, he's an extraordinary person. I mean, he's led an extraordinary life and his crimes are not the only thing he's done. So that's a good video to show. That's the argument. To some kids, he is a role model, which makes it even sadder what he did. Way to twist that. To Mark's point about throwing everything in there, and sometimes it could backfire, and it backfired here, right?

59:50Didn't the judge say – didn't he start off by saying the letters – the letter that the defense attorneys wrote was bullying towards one of the witnesses who were going to testify? So today – so there's like this balancing test of what Mark says. You don't want to have any regrets. You want to put your best foot forward. But sometimes you never know what's going to tick off a judge. something that you think is benign or even good turns out to be not so good. And I have to say, I know he's an extraordinary, he's done extraordinary things. The guy's a billionaire. Nobody's going to minimize that.

1:00:25But here's what judges say, because we represent people like this all the time who have done great things and maybe not to that magnitude. And then they screw up. They quote unquote lose their way. And here's what judges say at sentencing. I agree that he's done great things. I've agreed that he helped many people. I agree that he formed a charter school and he's a great family man, et cetera, et cetera. However, in this, and you want to call it aberrant behavior. In other words, it's not the way he normally operates, which they can't say that with Huff Daddy. But then the judge says, however, two of the things I need to take into consideration are specific deterrence to make sure this individual doesn't do this again.

1:01:06And sometimes, like the judge did in the Anthony Weiner case, and a much tougher judge than Subramanian is, she said, I don't think you'll ever do this again. And she was right. But there's general deterrence. And basically, the whole world is watching. And I need to send a message to the whole world that despite the fact you are a city councilman, you are a congressman, you passed all these bills, you filled all these potholes, you helped all these people, but you did something, you committed a crime. So I'm acknowledging your greatness in the past. I'm acknowledging the fact that I don't think you're going to do this again.

1:01:42However, by law, I have to address general deterrence. And therefore, I have to give you an incarceratory sentence. I will give you less than probation wants. I will give you less. That's what I would say. But if I were the prosecutor, I'd get up there and I'd say, I would say all of those kids you just saw are watching and waiting to see what you are going to do to find out whether there are consequences to abusing women, to beating them, to forcing them into sex acts they don't want to perform. You hold that messaging in your hands right now to a generation of kids who know his name and who were influenced by him.

1:02:25That's what's at stake in these numbers. That is very compelling. The other thing this judge is doing is thinking, OK, like Aristotle said, justice is like cases being treated alike. So they strive to try to balance out sentences for somebody like this billionaire rat mogul and some white guy in Wisconsin who may get charged with the same thing. And so he's trying to balance it out. And where do they start? The federal sentencing guidelines. That's why they were created. They're no longer mandatory, but they're persuasive. So the judge will start off. OK, where do we fall within the sentencing guidelines and probation?

1:03:04They don't have a they're not advocating. They're the ones who are. I mean, a lot of times that we think that they are, but they're objective and they're saying, here's where he falls. And when I heard that he, according to them, falls 6.7.3 years. 6.7. I said, yeah, all of a sudden, I see that's where the magic is happening. And the judge can either go upward or go downward. And I generally see judges sentencing people within the guidelines. That's why I predicted 6.7 years. I'll go 7 years. Are you guys aware of this meme with the young people? Not for me, Megan. I get below guidelines. You can't do 6.7 without doing this.

1:03:42I don't know why, but you can't. Go ahead, Arthur. What were you saying? That went right over my head. I'm very lucky here in New York. I've gotten, look, sensing is such a huge part of the federal system nowadays, much more so than when my dad practiced. When my dad practiced, you actually went to trial. Nowadays, everyone plea bargains out because I don't want to get too deep into the weeds, but if you plea bargain and you don't make them go to trial, those guidelines automatically go down significantly. You do get a benefit by not making them, putting them to the test. So now you get into the guidelines and you get a probation, you get a probation recommendation, but then you got to go all out.

1:04:24And I've been very fortunate to convince judges here in the Southern District of New York, in this courthouse, to give them below guideline sentence. On a plea. But on a plea, hold on. Here's something we're not talking about. Nobody's talking about the trial tax. Penalty. Let's talk about it. I call it a trial tax. The judges will never say it. But here's the thing. When you go to trial, you actually are going to be that one or 2 % that dares to take up that kind of time and challenge the system and not accept responsibility. The hammer's coming down. Now that's unfair. You say you should get the same and it shouldn't matter.

1:05:03All judges do it. Why? Because it sends a message to Arthur. It sends a message to me that you better think very carefully. You better win your damn case or take a plea because I'm telling you, if your client loses, oh boy, we're going to go for it. You're going to get a lot of time. What Mark is saying, Megan, what Mark is saying is built in to the system. If you do not accept responsibility prior to trial, you do not get what that's called that three-point reduction, which sometimes that's years in prison. And one judge in the Southern District of New York says that is unconstitutional. You are basically threatening people.

1:05:39You're threatening people. That's why, as Mark says, they don't explicitly acknowledge that's what they're doing to you. All right, wait, I want to keep going because there's a couple of other cases I want to get to with you guys. Number one is Tyler Robinson, the accused shooter of our friend Charlie. And he had a hearing on Monday. First of all, he was appointed some very seriously experienced defense attorneys. He's got some real lawyers representing him, including Michael Burt now of San Francisco, Richard Novak of Pasadena. One of them, I think it was, is it Michael? I think it's Michael Burt, represented Lyle Menendez at his first trial in 1993.

1:06:17Then the other guy had, yeah, yeah, no, it's still Michael Burt has 47 years of trial experience. Novak's been practicing law since 1990 with a focus on criminal defense for the past 20 years. He's worked on more than two dozen capital cases. So these are real lawyers and what they they're joining a woman who already represented him. And what they said at this last hearing was, could we have some more time to review the large amount of evidence in this case before deciding whether we want a preliminary hearing? A preliminary hearing would determine if there is enough evidence to hold this case over to trial.

1:06:57I don't think there's any question, right? Defendants can waive that if they want to, but it seems like one of the newly appointed lawyers, her name is Catherine Nestor, said they did not intend. They did not intend to waive it. So what's really happening here is they ask for a delay on this decision, Mark. I'll tell you. Well, first, they want to get all of the evidence so that they can use that to possibly cross-examine the witnesses. but it's just discovery. It's trying to find out more for them. Unless you add David Copperfield to the team, it's not going to change anything. There's overwhelming evidence.

1:07:30The only question is whether he's going to live or die. Is he going to get life or is he going to get death? And they're bringing in these folks to help increase the chances that he'll get life. And I actually see that as a viable possibility. And this is just a prediction. You've got to get 12 people, the jury has to be unanimous in Utah, all must say he should die. It only takes one person to say, well, you know what? His life will be worse in prison. I'm going to let him live. Or, you know what? He's got no priors and it wasn't especially heinous and cruel in my mind. So I'm going to let him live.

1:08:05It takes one person. And that means you go through all of this for not. Also, you add to that, that a plea of guilty, which guarantees a waiver of appeal, puts this to bed. He stays in prison for the rest of his life. And then maybe they'll get him in prison. The question is, will Charlie Kirk's widow be open-minded enough to go along with that? Because that is very persuasive. She's already said, I'm going to let the lawyers figure this out. She's already said she just doesn't want this on her moral scorecard. I know. However, she actually has an elevated thought process in that she did forgive him publicly.

1:08:42And I know that was more for her. But when the prosecutors come over to her and say, listen, we're considering guaranteeing the life sentence. And then there's no issues on appeal. We don't ever have to come back here and do it again. God forbid. There are no issues. Like this is, this is just like. Technicalities, Megan. Megan, they screw up in jury selection. This is just like Kohlberger, Arthur. They have got Tyler Robinson dead to rights. They've got the text messages. I mean, like he's they've got the gun that was his grandfather's which the bullets match the bullet that was used on arthur explain explain how these cases come back on appeal all the time you got to redo it over so mark mark is correct a lot of these cases do come back on appeal but megan that's why the judges assign lawyers like the ones assigned here who are known to be excellent lawyers my dad was one of those he was assigned by a federal judge i want you to try this horrible horrible case because i don't want it coming back on appeal i know they got this guy dead to rights that's fine but if some lawyer who doesn't know what he's doing messes something up so badly that the guy's constitutional rights were just trampled on an appeals court may be like look we know he's guilty but you guys didn't find him guilty the right way so we have to do it over again so that there's been no no even with a violation of his rights nothing nothing so far and by the way he confessed.

1:10:04That's how we know it was him. He went to his parents and said, it was me. We have in writing to his trans furry lover. It was me. It was me. It was me. Megan, Megan, listen, listen, we don't. Arthur, let me jump in here. Yeah, we're not. It's the process. It's exactly what Arthur just said. We are both. I'm not going to speak for Arthur. I will say there is a mountain of evidence. He admitted it. I read the confession to his roommate lover. I got it. They can prove this case beyond all doubt. I have no doubt. However, when you bring in the top guns and they challenge every little thing, not just pre-trial, but during the trial, all it takes is one mistake for years down the road is to come back on appeal, assuming you can get all 12 to agree to a unanimous verdict.

1:10:50That's why it's appealing sometimes for prosecutors to close it out to a life sentence. We learned that in the Marjory Stoneman-Douglas show. I think they're under too much pressure now. They know how the public reacted when Brian Kohlberger, who they also had dead to rights in Idaho, was given basically a commutation from the death penalty to life in prison because we knew he was going to be found guilty at trial. And we knew that he'd get death in Idaho. And you've already had Spencer Cox, the governor of Utah, say, I want to remind everybody that we have the death penalty in Utah. His first reaction, the top official in the state.

1:11:25Then they caught the guy. Then they said, we are going for death. Like nothing has happened to mitigate that at all. And they have confessions. They have the weapon. They have the bullets, the bullet casings, the writings about his bullets and his bullet casings to the lover, the parents to whom he confessed, the neighborhood priest or whatever that guy was, the sort of a youth minister to whom he confessed. This it's done. I disagree. I don't think they should take a plea. I think they should try the case that they have to. I'm just saying it's very likely that that is certainly the purpose of the defense.

1:11:59That's what they're going to do. I was I was just wondering, and maybe they don't have all the elements that they have in the Luigi Mangione case. But how come the feds, who obviously are personally involved here, right, President Trump, you know, love Charlie Kirk, come the feds haven't dropped an indictment on him the way they did here in Luigi. Luigi, they said, oh, he stalked him from state to state. Charlie Kirk was in a different state every 15 minutes. I'm sure they could thread that needle in an indictment to come after him federally as well. Well, I think the feds were worried in Luigi that the New York lame prosecutors weren't going to handle this well.

1:12:34And I don't think the prosecutors, the federal prosecutors have that concern about Utah. So far, Utah's doing what it needs to do to proceed with an aggressive prosecution against him. So I have no doubt that if they get a different signal, they will find a way that Pam Bonney and Cash Patel will take another fresh look at this case and find a way of getting it. All right, let's do our last case. This is a civil case. It's an ACLU lawsuit, speaking of Charlie, over a vile post that a Ball State University professor in Muncie, Indiana, posted after Charlie's death. She posted, by the way, this is what she does for Ball State.

1:13:12Her office developed health and wellness programming for university students, including a program that provides survivor support and victim advocacy for students who have experienced intimate partner violence. So she helps women who are claiming that they've been abused by a partner and things related to that. The day after Charlie was murdered, she posted on her private Facebook page, quote, if you think Charlie Kirk was a wonderful person, we cannot be friends. His death is a tragedy and I can do and feel for his wife and children. I believe in the resurrection. And while it's difficult, I can and do pray for his soul.

1:13:54Charlie Kirk's death is a reflection of violence, fear, and hatred he sowed. Well, she got fired. There was a bunch of pushback on her. The Indiana Attorney General mentioned it on X, calling her comments vile. and next thing you know, she got the boot and the ACLU has now filed a lawsuit saying this is a public university, so the First Amendment does apply, and that this is a violation of her First Amendment rights. She was on a private Facebook page saying her private thoughts about a public concern, and that's where you kind of get the most protection, where you're talking as a citizen about a matter of public concern and that they had no grounds to fire her.

1:14:39Mark, your thoughts on it? Yeah, it's unconstitutional what they did to her. And before the hate mail comes in, I'm not even addressing the message. Let's put that to the side, right? She didn't advocate, let's kill someone as a result of this. So it's constitutionally protected speech. It's a matter of public opinion. The Supreme Court has made it very clear. You can say outrageous and offensive things. That's constitutionally protected speech. Now, the question is, in the Pickering case, we learned that in law school, the three criteria, there we go. Number one, did it disrupt the workplace?

1:15:12No. Number two, did it interfere with the employee's ability to do their job? No. Did it undermine the instance of the institution's mission? No. She posted this privately. Hold on one second, because it didn't happen. She posted this privately. And then somebody took that privately, the same way as if she were to say at a party to somebody's ear, and then somebody makes that public. It is. And quite frankly, what they're doing is they're punishing her for exercising her speech. Keep the hate mail. I'm not getting into whether it was offensive or not. That's not the issue. Because let's say she said things like, Charlie, hold on.

1:15:51Mark doesn't like the nasty comments he gets after his comment. It's part of the job. Wait, I know. We got your point. Let's go to Arthur now. Come on. we have to have to have a snappier debate. Go, go Arthur. No, no, no. I mean, I mean, the bottom line is, I mean, we have to be able to speak freely no matter how stupid it is, what we say and how, you know, I disagree. I think it's a tragedy, blah, blah, blah, blah. But, but Megan, you know, they can't shut you down. They shouldn't shut me, you know, even though you're in the private sector, but if you were in the public sector. But this is a school, this is a school.

1:16:23So there's a different, you're not factoring in the balancing test there. I mean, the balancing test, what I say with Mark, so let me start with this. I think it's probably going to be, I think Mark's probably right. I think the speech is probably going to show you. God, you agree with me on this. She's probably going to, she's probably because they're coming for your speech. If you don't defend her, Megan, they're coming for you. And that's not right. They're not coming from, but well, you know what I'm saying? Any public employee who says the same thing that you're saying, maybe she says something positive about Charlie Kirk.

1:16:51I got it. I got it. OK, but but I don't agree that we know this for sure, because under the balancing test, you have to look at whether she disrupted the campus life at Ball State and how severe the disruption was and whether she was capable of doing her job after this. And you're going to tell me in Indiana, the whole student body is leftist. They're not because it's Indiana. So my point is simply you've got maybe some percentage, some fair amount, of students who are going to go before her and need her rape counseling services or her intimate partner violence services. And they know that this person has written the words.

1:17:30If you think Charlie Kirk was a wonderful person, we cannot be friends. She can't be around you. She has a hatred for you that stops her from being able to be in your presence in any sort of a warm and welcoming way. So fuck off, Suzanne Squire. That's her name. Yeah, we got there. But I'm I'm just saying, you could make the case. No, I'm not done. You could make the case that she is not capable of doing that particular job anymore after that because the students don't trust her and they're already in a vulnerable spot. And we don't know whether this has been disruptive, severely disruptive on campus.

1:18:07Go ahead, Arthur. No, no, no, no, no. Mark, hold on. It's Arthur's turn. Mark, you're so annoying today. I love you, but be quiet. Go ahead. Here's what we're not factoring in. It's a known quantity. I have two Facebook pages. My main one is at maximum, it's 5 ,000. My personal one is like at 100. How personal was her personal Facebook page? Does it bleed into what Megan says? Is she friends with people on campus? Is she friends with students on Facebook? So they all heard, or is it just her aunt and uncle who live in Queens and nobody knows? So that's a relevant fact here to this balancing test.

1:18:45Now everybody knows about it. before everybody knew about it. How many people did it actually affect? And does it affect the people Megan just referenced who need to go and seek out her services? That is a fair statement. I'm not comfortable with this woman. That's a fair statement. My guess is, okay, probably she said this, it became public and they just absolutely said, that's it, you're out. But Megan, I wanna just turn it around. Let's say her comments were, Charlie, because what a loss it was. He was the best and everything that flowed from his lips was fair. And then there were some black students who then say, I cannot see this woman about anything because I didn't like Charlie, Chris.

1:19:24I don't like what this woman has said favorable about Charlie. And so she can't do her job and I want her fired. My guess is you would be fighting equally passionate about her keeping her job because the words were favorable. Well, I'd have to show those black students the piece that I am dropping tomorrow, defending Charlie on the absurd allegations of racism against him. I have all the receipts. And after those women or imaginary students see that piece, they would withdraw that objection. But as I say, I do think this is constitutionally protected speech from what I've heard so far. I don't love it, but that's our country.

1:20:01It's there. The First Amendment is there to protect speech you don't like, not speech that you do. Guys, a pleasure. Everybody check out Mark and Arthur on MK True Crime. And also go get your tickets for Megan Kelly live at MeganKelley.com so you can meet these guys in person. And then you can tell Mark right to his face how wrong he's been on so many, many things. All right, guys, lots of love. See you soon. Thanks, Meg. Take care. Bye. Up next, speaking of MK True Crime, we've got Dave Ehrenberg and Phil Holloway. And Phil has breaking news on Fannie Willis. Oh, yes, he does. Stay tuned for that.

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1:22:03We absolutely have to keep talking. It's more important now than ever. This fall, Megan Kelly is taking her show live to cities nationwide. To go silent is not the answer. I'm going. I'm going to stand on these stages, and I'm going to say all the things that we say all the time on this show. We're going to make it safe for me. We're going to make it safe for my team and my guests and you and do something really important, which is say what's true and what's real. And I would love for you to join me. MeganKelley.com for the tickets. You can stream The Megyn Kelly Show on SiriusXM at home or anywhere you are.

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1:23:06Just letting you know that the sentencing hearing is at lunch, so we're not getting additional updates, but we'll know soon enough. Now we're joined for two more of the stars by two more of the stars of MK True Crime, Dave Ehrenberg, former Palm Beach County District Attorney, and Phil Holloway, star of the Fannie Willis case. He wasn't directly involved, but that's when we came to know and love him. You can find them at mktruecrime.com and subscribe on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts, okay? mktruecrime.com, and that'll give you all the links. Dave, Phil, welcome back. And Phil, happy birthday.

1:23:40Oh, thank you very much. I was telling Dave, I'm waiting for him to sing happy birthday to me in a video and post it on X, and then my day will be complete. Oh, God. We'll do it after the show's over. Stick around, Dave. You and I will work on that. Phil, for your birthday, I'm letting you start first and tell us what the heck is happening with Fannie Willis. Well, a couple of things. We just learned today a friend of mine, Senator Dolezal, Greg Dolezal here in Georgia, is on the Senate committee that's investigating this whole fiasco and looking to see what the legislature might be able to do to maybe rein in rogue prosecutors or to improve the process for funding prosecutors' offices.

1:24:20So they've been conducting hearings. They've been trying to get Willis to sit down under oath for some time. She's been fighting these subpoenas in court, but he just texted me earlier, and I posted about this, I think, on X, that they've got her to come to court. She's coming to the Senate, I guess, in just a couple of weeks here in the middle of November where she will be testifying under oath, answering committee questions or at least saying something under oath, whatever that may be. Also, this broke a couple of days ago or maybe a week or so ago. The Department of Justice is subpoenaing travel records for her.

1:24:56What we know about it has been reported by the New York Times and others is that it has to do with travel records, as I understand it, from 2024. Now, you may remember that the case against Donald Trump and the rest, the RICO case that she had here in Fulton County, she was booted off that case by the Court of Appeals late in 2024. So she was still actively working on it, as was her office, throughout most of 2024. We know that there are billing records that suggest some coordination or perhaps collusion with the Joe Biden White House. My best guess, and I could very well be wrong, but I think probably they are looking at ties to maybe the Biden White House or any involvement or collusion cooperation in that regard.

1:25:44But what the Department of Justice is exactly up to, they've been keeping it fairly close to the vest, and so we may have to wait and see. the Department of Justice is certainly not showing their hand but we know that they have issued a subpoena and I imagine it's going to have to be complied with I mean this is what she said famously when she took the stand in the disqualification hearing here it is as he told me one time the only thing a woman can do for him is make him a sandwich we would have brutal arguments about the fact that I am your equal I don't need anything from my man. A man is not a plan.

1:26:23That turned out to be very true, Dave Ehrenberg. A man was not a plan for her. It was a plan to get herself booted off the case. And now she's twisting in the wind, having to deal with these subpoenas and going to testify before the Senate committee. And this case is in limbo, never to be re-brought. I think that's what Phil has said. There's no prosecutor willing to take it. And that's all because they couldn't keep it in their pants. Yeah, this was not the finest moment for the prosecutor profession. I was a fellow DA at the time, and you can't appoint someone you're having a romantic relationship with as a special prosecutor and getting paid by tax dollars.

1:26:59And then when you put things in court pleadings under oath, you better make sure it's truthful. And so this whole thing was a mess, and so now this case has gone away. It's not coming back. I do wonder about federal jurisdiction here, considering she's a state official, not a federal official. So if they want to ring her up on. That's enough of that. No offense, but I've lost interest. OK, let's keep going because we have so many cases I do want to get through with you guys. Number one. OK, let's go to the U.S. Supreme Court. There is a case that's coming up soon. It's out of Colorado and it involves this attempted ban by Colorado on, quote, conversion therapy.

1:27:37This is something they used to do like in the 50s when a kid said he was gay. They tried to talk him out of being gay. You're not gay. You're straight. Be straight. Don't be gay. And, you know, it's really kind of tough to talk somebody out of being gay. And the Colorado law, though, is not really, I mean, it technically does get at that, but that's not really happening in today's day and age. they're really getting at therapists who want to talk to kids who say they're trans about whether they are really trans or whether they're upset because their parents are getting a divorce or whether they have an eating disorder that's manifesting in some sort of bodily, you know, sensitivity that they're mistaking for gender confusion.

1:28:18That's basically banned now, thanks to this Colorado law. It's a crazy ass law because basically stops a therapist from being a therapist. And perfectly in line, by the way, with what the American Psychiatric Society and the pediatrics groups are telling these therapists to do anyway, which is affirm, affirm, affirm, affirm. Don't do any good faith searching of the child's actual issues. It's crazy. But Colorado wrote it down and put it in law and made it actually like a law that you cannot discuss, possibly telling the kid he is the gender that he was born, the sex that he was born, and not going down the conversion lane of let's do another gender.

1:28:58So this therapist has filed the lawsuit saying this violates, her name is Kaylee Childs, saying you violating my free speech rights here because that's what I do, talk therapy. And you are telling me like as a matter of law that I can't say certain things and I have to say other things. So I'll start with you on this, Dave. How is she wrong? Well, first, I think the Supreme Court is going to rule in her favor. And we had experience with this here in Palm Beach County where there was a local ordinance that banned conversion therapy when it came to sexual orientation. And it was found by the 11th Circuit Court of Appeal in a divided panel that that was unconstitutional and the local county had to pay up.

1:29:45I don't know if that extended to gender identity. I would take issue on – I do think that at least personally, even though the court is going to rule opposite, I do think that when you have these therapists out there who are essentially saying you can pray the gay away, I think that's just hooey. I think that's just a quack. And I do think the state can can regulate health care like in other areas and can say, no, we're not going to let you do it because the same time we're not going to let like a doctor urge a lung cancer patient to take up smoking. And that was actually in the brief for Colorado.

1:30:24So I think when it comes to that, I actually think Colorado has a good argument there. But when it comes to gender identity, I understand that when you are about to do something that could have a permanent change in your life, have permanent ramifications, then I can see how that would be different. So I do think the court is going to rule for the therapist here, but I would disagree when it comes to sexual orientation. Me too, because here's the status of it, Phil. The district court in Colorado rejected the therapist's request to stop the state from enforcing this law against her. And then she appealed.

1:31:02It went up to a divided three judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 10th Circuit. and that the 10th circuit upheld the district court ruling. So she lost again. And they said this law primarily regulates conduct, not speech, professional conduct, and therefore it's not constitutional. And the Supreme Court took it up. The Supreme Court could have said, we let it stand the 10th circuit decision, but they didn't. They said, give us a shot at it. And I totally agree with Dave that they are going to say, you guys got it wrong, and this therapist cannot be hamstrung by the law telling her she can't therapize the kid the way she sees fit.

1:31:42So I'm going to break some news to you, and maybe to the world here, because most people maybe don't know this. There are actually a lot of people who go to work and put on black robes in America who are true nutjobs. And that explains why we have a lot of these lower court rulings that are flat contrary to the law. The First Amendment is really, really clear here. You can't go inside the treatment room or the therapist's office and dictate to a therapist who uses talk therapy, that's the tools of her trade, if a person comes in there and says, look, I have these issues that are gender dysphoria issues.

1:32:24I don't like feeling this way. I want you to help me feel a different way. The state of Colorado is going to come in and say, no, no, it's illegal for you to do that. The only thing you can do is affirm their feelings that they say they do not want. So if you're a therapist and someone comes into your office and says, I want you to help me try to feel a different way, to feel like maybe the gender I was at birth, right, my birth gender. I don't like feeling this way. Will you help me? You're going to have to say, no, no, no, I can't because they're going to take my license. They're going to take my livelihood.

1:32:59How that is not a violation of free speech and probably other things, I don't know. I think the Supreme Court is going to obviously rule. I agree with Dave. They're going to rule in favor of the plaintiff here. I disagree with Dave a little bit because I think Colorado's entire argument is specious. Of course, the states can regulate therapists and doctors, but this goes beyond mere regulation. This is getting into the sanctity of that relationship between a therapist and a patient. These people can come into the doctor or to the therapist and say, I've got this real issue. I want your help. The therapist has to be able to legally help them with what they state their issue is and what they want help with.

1:33:41It's just really simple. It's crazy. This is genuinely endangering children, this law. I mean, it's going to be thrown out. Thank God we have the Supreme Court. We do. I will say Colorado's arguing that the only thing the law prohibits therapists from doing is performing a treatment that seeks the predetermined outcome of changing a minor's gender identity. Because they're saying, we're only going to come after you, therapists, if when the kid walks in there, you're saying in your head, no way am I letting this kid change genders. That's not a thing, which is the correct thing to do, by the way.

1:34:15but I just don't think that's going to be upheld. Even, even if the court believes that's all it would encompass and it's going to be very hard for Colorado to prove that was in her head. She had a predetermined versus she did an open searching examination with the child and then determined this isn't a real case of gender confusion. Anyway, I think this thing's going away. Let's keep going. Another case involving the trans issue, I think is going up. Dave, you're going to tell me what's going to happen now because there's two cases on the trans athletes, boys crossing into girls' sports. One is out of Idaho, one's out of West Virginia.

1:34:46And what happened in Idaho is there is a law that banned all trans kids, meaning boys pretending to be girls, from participating in or even trying out for girls' sports in the public schools K-12. It was signed in 2020 by the current governor out there, Brad Little. Again, this is Idaho. It was the first state to pass such a law. So good on them. And this young boy claiming to be a girl who's now a freshman at university says, I I've been hurt by this. I wanted to play the girls sports and I wasn't allowed. I intended to try out for women's track and cross country and I couldn't because of this law.

1:35:25And so I'm suing. Now, the district court issued a preliminary injunction against the law saying this isn't constitutional, Idaho. You can't do this. Then it went up to the very liberal Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals. And they said, yeah, we side with the district court. You can't do this to young boys pretending to be girls. They have a right to try to get on the girls team. And then Idaho appealed to the Supreme Court of the United States and they took the case. Again, that's another good sign for Team Sanity. And then the plaintiff, the boy pretending to be a girl, requested that the lawsuit be dropped because he knows as well as we know the high court is going to side with us, meaning Team Sanity.

1:36:09And there is no way they are going to reverse this Idaho law. So, Dave, what does the Supreme Court do? because the Alliance Defending Freedom, which is a great group, which is defending Idaho in part, has said, oh, hell no, you can't do this. You cannot drop it. You know, this is a live issue that's going to be coming over and over and over again. You need to hear the case. Right. Well, they also have that West Virginia case, so they're going to hear both, I think. And I think the reason is because the Supreme Court wants to rule in this area, as does Idaho. They want the Supreme Court 6-3 conservative majority to weigh in here.

1:36:45This was a mistake by the transgender legal advocates when it came to the Scrimetti case. Remember, that was a big deal. There was a press conference. We're going to go to the Supreme Court, and we're going to stand up for transgender rights when it came to Tennessee's gender-affirming care. And the Supreme Court ruled 6-3 against the plaintiffs. They ruled for Tennessee that you can ban gender-affirming care for underage individuals. And it was a big loss for the transgender community. And they see that happening now when it comes to sports. And so now I do see that as the reason why they're trying to back away from this.

1:37:18They are saying, well, let's give in. Let's not let the Supreme Court rule because that would be a national ruling that would have huge ramifications. So I do think the Supreme Court is going to rule on it. I think it'll be 6-3 again, just like in the Scrimetti ruling. And I think we'll have lasting implications. I agree. Now, wait, Phel, do you want to weigh in quickly? because I do want to get to one other case. Yeah, real quick. I think what's getting lost here, you know, everything these plaintiffs are talking about is that, you know, their 14th amendment rights are being violated. It's the rights of the girls on the team to play same-sex sports, right?

1:37:54It's their choice. They have the right to free association under the First Amendment. They signed up and they choose to be part of an all-girls team. You can't force them to accept a boy on their team because that violates their First Amendment rights. So you have, I think, a very compelling interest here for the U.S. Supreme Court to step in and say, you know what, freedom of association means something. And if these women, these girls on these sports teams, if they want to play all-girls sports, the government has to protect it. I think that's what's going to happen. I mean, I feel like if you're a transgender activist, you'd rather have the Idaho case in front of the court than the West Virginia one, because in the West Virginia one, there's allegations.

1:38:36They're just allegations. We have to hear whether there's a denial, but the allegation is that the trans athlete there allegedly was saying to at least one of the girls who was a teammate of his when he was on her team, you can suck my D, this person said to her, that they made many other more explicit statements like, I'm going to stick my D into or whatever, and sometimes added, and also this other place as well, that she allegedly told her parents and told her coach and the school's administration, the school said it was investigating, but she never heard back. This is, and she, the girl is claiming she can name six students and didn't name who could corroborate her allegations.

1:39:18This is not, this is not a case that the trans lobby wants going in front of Samuel Alito. It's not going to end well. And Megan also in that case, West Virginia case, the athlete won the shot put competition by more than three feet, whereas in the Idaho case, the athlete was worse than the women and couldn't even make the team. So yeah, you're right. I do think the West Virginia case is going to be worse for the transgender community. Okay. So in the limited time we have left, there's this singer and TikTok star named David. They spell it D, the numeral four, V, D. His name is really David Anthony Burke.

1:39:58He's 20. And he has 3.8 million followers on TikTok, 2 million on Insta. And something bizarre happened with him. Officers on September 8th responded to an impound lot in Hollywood for a, quote, foul odor coming from a vehicle. They located a body in the front truck of a Tesla that was in a state of decomposition. They said all they found, they described it as a head and torso found inside a bag. Well, they matched that head and torso to a missing teen, 15-year-old Celeste Rivas Hernandez, who was from Riverside County, who was reported missing in April at 2024 at just 13, but was 15 dead in the car.

1:40:42The LA Times reported Celeste was reporting missing three times in 2024. Police said the teen may have been dead for several weeks before her body was discovered. Her mother claims before she went missing, she had a boyfriend named David. Following ID of the body, an L.A. home where David had been living was searched. The Tesla was reportedly located not far from his$20 ,000 a month rental home. At least he was staying in the home. TMZ reports that his manager is the person on the lease. But again, this guy, David, appears to have been staying there, not all the time, but frequently. The Los Angeles medical examiner has not yet determined the cause or manner of death.

1:41:21It's a pending investigation. And her remains were found a day after her 15th birthday. She was not pregnant. It's being investigated as a homicide. And now TMZ is reporting that they are looking in this home for blood evidence using luminol. I just want to say we only have a minute left on SiriusXM, so we're going to carry it over just a bit onto podcast and YouTube.com slash Megan Kelly. But in the minute we have here, your thoughts on this, Phil, because this does not look so great. Yeah, there's laws obviously against homicide, but there's also laws against concealing a death, and there's laws against mutilating a corpse.

1:42:01So why there has been no arrest made is a head scratcher. I can't quite figure that one out. They can always add additional charges later, but somebody, and I think we know who, has hidden this death from the public. They've concealed it, right, to the point that it was decomposing and causing people to complain about the smell. So I think there's an arrest that could be made, and they need to do it soon. Who would be so dumb as to put the dead body that they were responsible for, Dave, in their own car and then just leave it sitting there? It's such a good point, Megan. And perhaps that answers Phil's question as to why there is not an arrest.

1:42:39Maybe they're thinking this is too obvious because if we're going to arrest someone for concealing a body, why would it be the guy who owns the car, who lives nearby? And that doesn't seem to make any sense. Now, it is telling that the mother of the victim claims that before she went missing, she said she had a boyfriend named David. So this is not good for this guy. I've never heard of him, quite frankly, but I'm not surprised. I haven't heard a lot of these music stars these days. But I think more evidence will have to come in before the prosecutors will make an arrest. Yeah. I mean, right now, all they have is the body and a possible relationship between these two.

1:43:16Phil, I mean, without physical evidence at this guy's home or, you know, on his person, it actually could be tough to make a murder charge against him. They're going to have to find some physical link or maybe some statements that he made. But look, they're looking at online messaging. They're looking at Discord communications. They're even investigating the language that he uses for the lyrics in some of his product, whatever you call that. So, you know, they're going to have to tie it up. You mentioned those song lyrics, Phil, and according to TMZ, an unreleased song was leaked on SoundCloud in December 2023 by David.

1:43:57He sings about a woman named Celeste. When it was leaked, it was titled Celeste Demo Unfinned. like unfinished. Oh, Celeste, the girl with my name tattooed on her chest. Smell her on my clothes like cigarettes. I hear her voice each time I take a breath. I'm obsessed. The next verse also features the name. Oh, Celeste, afraid you'll only love me when undressed, but you look so damn gorgeous in that dress. Missing you so much makes me depressed, but I digress because... And then TMZ also reports that there are disturbing lyrics about killing in his 2022 song, one of his top songs called Romantic Homicide.

1:44:39And we actually have a clip of that. Here it is.

1:45:05I hate you

1:45:10Oh, boy. For the listening audience, it's showing a dead woman bloody on a bed and him blindfolded. And you heard the lyrics in the back of my mind, I killed you. I didn't even regret it. I can't believe I said it, but it's true. I hate you. I know you're a former prosecutor, Dave. Dave, you were prosecuting these cases about a year ago. How helpful is that? I think it is helpful, and this is why I've always opposed attempts that exist in various states to make music lyrics inadmissible in court. Because prosecutors have used rap lyrics to go after violent gangs, and they say you can't do that.

1:45:46That's First Amendment, and it doesn't mean anything. Well, it does mean something. A lot of this stuff is a confession. It also is telling that apparently the tattoo, she had a tattoo on her finger that was the same one that David has. So I don't know about the whole thing on the chest. That read S-H-H-H, like be quiet, which is disturbing. Yeah, exactly. So all that stuff should be admissible. And thankfully, it's still admissible because that's why these laws are so just even though they want to be fair to defendants, they are so misguided because they could set defendants free. We just FYI, according to TMZ, we don't know when they first met, but there is a photo of them together, reports TMZ, at an event in L.A.

1:46:29in October 2023, which would have dated back to when she was 13 and he was 17. um that's no bueno uh that age difference and she also you mentioned this phil appeared in streams of david's twitch and discord channels it's very clear they knew each other tmz obtained one video in which the woman next to david appears to be celeste i think we've got that cut yo yo wait wait wait wait oh look at answer that one that's so mean if you don't answer which which one which one which one what's good they have a big family oh thank you mitch mitch o 'conjo i gotta sign with him if you even we need to delete this maz can we delete all vibes and then as soon as the stream ends delete the stream too all right so there's no question these two knew each other that seems very clear um the only question is why did she go missing obviously she at some point somebody killed her and how did her body parts wind up in his car.

1:47:33Can you speak to the thing about, I mean, look, we all have a suspicion here for obvious reasons, but if you actually have to make the case, it's much better to have some physical evidence on him or in his house, like the luminol. If they find her blood in that house, that's good. But even if they find her blood inside that car or his fingerprints inside that car, it doesn't mean he did it. Apparently it was his car. He drove it. Maybe somebody was framing him. Maybe somebody, maybe the guy who owns his house, right? If I'm a defense lawyer, I'm going to cast the stones everywhere. Like maybe the manager did it.

1:48:08Maybe the maid did it. It's really, really unlikely. And I think it's very, very rare that people in real life are actually framed for things. I'm not saying it can't happen, but I think, you know, you mentioned that they obviously knew each other. In my opinion, I think it's clear that it was much more than simply knowing each other. But to your point about physical evidence, obviously, the more evidence prosecutors and police have to make a case, the better off they are when making that case. But there are a lot of people who are rightfully convicted serving long prison sentences on circumstantial evidence alone.

1:48:48Circumstantial evidence, when used the right way, can be extremely powerful, extremely powerful. By that, we've got, for example, there are Discord messages that say, you know, David is saying that gore is greater than porn. I used to be addicted to watching gore. I love gore. And he's not talking about Al Gore. He's talking about this, you know, something that's essentially a fetish. Yeah. And so now we got this video with the knife that's dripping blood and all of these things. And the body parts found in his car near his house, even though his name may not have been on it, all the evidence is that he was living there.

1:49:28And you start putting these things together. And bear in mind, there's obviously going to be things that the police know about that we don't know about. So just taking what we know, and it's already looking very, very bad for singer David. and my wife made me promise not to call him D4VD, so I won't call him David. I almost did it too. It's one of those things. I think they can make a strong case. Here's the thing. They found the car. The car was originally on the street, Dave. It wound up in the impound lot because somebody had basically abandoned it, so it was towed to the impound lot, and then after several days, it started to smell, and they reported this foul odor.

1:50:07the police came and they found this head and torso in a bag in the trunk. And then the other remains were linked back to this young girl, Celeste, and proven to be hers. Now what we've seen from David is he's stopped with the promotion of his album and he's hired a criminal defense attorney. Now, none of that means he did this. You know, he's getting, I'd get a lawyer too, too, if I were him, whether I were guilty or innocent at this point. But again, I can't get over the sheer stupidity if he did this of just of putting some portion of her remains in a bag. Whose bag is it? The cops will figure that out pretty quickly.

1:50:48Will they not, Dave? And then putting it in my own car and then thinking no one's going to link it back to me. I think, well, I think that's his best defense. It's so preposterous. I mean, who would ever do this? Your Honor, members of the jury, this is too ridiculous. He's not an idiot. Well, that's going to be the argument, press. But, you know. He did seem like an idiot in that video. Yes. That's what I'm saying. He has shown signs of being quite an idiot. So that could come back to hurt him also. Also, he's been going out of his way to lie about his affiliation with the victim. He is denied there was ever any romantic involvement, which, of course, he would because he's a lot older and she's underage.

1:51:27but there was a photo of the two of them together at an event in Los Angeles in October 2023, and she would have been 13 at the time he was 17. What is he doing with the 13-year-old girl then? And so when you add all this stuff up, it makes him look really bad. So even if you don't have all the evidence to connect them to the murder, but just the insinuation of hanging around with this 13-year-old is going to make him look terrible in the eyes of the jury to at least get him on the concealment charge. Mm-hmm. Okay, David's friends are saying that they were romantically involved, according to Fox 11, that they believed that Celeste was a 19-year-old student at USC.

1:52:08Again, a reminder for the audience, she was found dead at age 15 and the relationship had been going on, we believe, for a couple of years, having begun when she was 13 and he was 17, we believe, again, allegedly. His friends say they frequently saw the two together and believe they were romantically involved. They told TMZ they were shocked she was underage because she was present at multiple age-restricted events. Law enforcement sources previously confirmed to TMZ that Rivas Hernandez had multiple fake IDs, which could have given the teen access to such events. I mean, and now what they're sniffing around here, Phil, is potential motive, right?

1:52:47I mean, I don't know what the statutory rape law is out in California, but that kind of an age difference, four years with an underage with a 13-year-old, could definitely, is probably illegal. That's how the laws work in most states. and you have one fight in which she says, I'm going to tell everybody. I'm just making this up. This is speculation, but that's a problem. It's a problem to have somebody under 13 in a sexual relationship potentially. So it is. And yes, that's the reason for the pinky tattoo saying, you know, don't, that's what that signifies to me is that they've got something going on and they want to keep it a secret.

1:53:27So secret that they're putting tattoos all over themselves. But anyway, it has been reported by TMZ as well. If you're trying to keep a secret, you probably shouldn't have shh written on your finger and the matching finger of the person with whom you don't want to be caught in a relationship. Just pro tip. Well, also, you don't want to be caught, as TMZ reported, standing 0.3 miles from the home where Celeste Rivas was living with her family before she disappeared in April of 2024. and that's where he was standing according to Google Maps, according to TMZ. So you put all this together. This is what I mean by circumstantial evidence.

1:54:09You start putting it together, and while one piece of it may not look like much, eventually when you start putting these bricks in place, you start to see a wall forming, and eventually that wall can get complete, and it can get very tall, and it might be something that's so tall that the defense won't be able to get over it in terms of finding reasonable doubt in a case. So the search for physical evidence is key. It's going to be ongoing, but I have a sneaking suspicion they're going to find some physical evidence if they haven't done it already. Plus, he's got a lot of stuff out there online that sleuths have been able to come up with.

1:54:45And with the tools that law enforcement has, I wouldn't be surprised if there's a mountain of digital information that they've got that's going to probably lead to some charges in the not too distant future. You tell me, Dave, as a prosecutor, if this guy really did, again, I assume he asserts his innocence. I assume he's denying having anything to do with this. And they don't have him dead to rights based on what we're seeing here. They really do need to tie some forensic evidence either in that car or in his home to him and her having been together in some sort of a bloody confrontation. But but you tell me whether they are likely to find that, because if you really are dumb enough to kill your lover and put her remains in your car and then abandon your car on the streets of L.A., You are absolutely dumb enough to think cleaning up blood in your home with bleach will remove all trace of what you may have done.

1:55:44Right. This is hypothetical land right now, to be clear. But I wouldn't be shocked at all to learn he really is straight out of the stupid criminal file. Yeah. And he'd be the type to think that if he erases his cell phone, then all the messages go away. I got to believe that law enforcement is getting subpoenas for his cell phone records. And that's where his digital footprint could really hurt him. And going back to what we were talking about before, since he was 17 at the time of that picture with her when she was 13, that if they had a romantic relationship then, that could be a felony under California law.

1:56:17It is a crime because it's more than three years. It's a four-year difference even though they're both underage. And so he could be convicted of a felony just for that relationship. So you can see that could be motive. Even though she was not pregnant, that could be motive. Perhaps she said something and she held that over his head. We don't know yet, but means, mode of opportunity points to one person so far. We'll see if the evidence bears it out. Yeah. And then you look at that person's social media. By the way, would that stuff come in, Dave? Like if they did charge him, would any of those songs we just played or, you know, the appearances together on online, would that come in?

1:56:54It would. You'd have to argue it to a judge that it'd be relevant, that it's not more prejudicial than it is probative. I would say it is relevant, especially because her name is mentioned in these songs. So yes, that's why some states are trying to make it irrelevant, inadmissible entirely. But thankfully, that hasn't become a big force throughout the country yet. Well, Fannie Willis tried that in Fulton County recently when she prosecuted Young Thug, the rapper Young Thug, because she wanted to use music lyrics. And the jury wasn't buying it, But the music industry just is apoplectic about that because, look, today's point, I get why prosecutors want to use it, but you really have to tie that in concretely to your case.

1:57:37It can't be abstract. It's got to be very, very, I think, specific and focused on the facts of the case at hand because it really does have to be more probative than prejudicial. And that's a balancing test that courts have to go through. So if you just have something in the abstract that doesn't necessarily – that can be interpreted in multiple different ways, I think there's a good argument to be made that it could very well be inadmissible because it's just not probative enough or it's too prejudicial if you let it in. I mean, I think you might be right. Like that song was from 2022, and that may have been before he met her.

1:58:15Right now we're only dating it based on what we've discussed to 2023, the all I killed you, I didn't regret it, I can't believe I said it, but I hate you. But that's sort of a pattern of problematic issues. All right, well, we'll wait to see what happens to David again, assuming David asserts his innocence in this case. Before we go, we're awaiting right now at 208 on Friday the Diddy sentencing. What's going to happen after lunch is three more lawyers will speak, a reverend, and then Sean Diddy Combs himself is set to speak before the judge finally hands down his sentence. Do you guys have any thoughts before we go on whether this judge is likely to throw the book at him or what the sentencing is likely to be?

1:58:57Dave, I'll start with you. I think that Diddy will get more than the defense wants, which is no additional time, and less than what the prosecution wants, which is 11-plus years. I think he'll get somewhere around three to four years, which will be a lot more than Diddy ever expected to spend behind bars. Bill? I've said that he might get three to five. I'm actually wondering if it might not be closer to the seven, which is what the guidelines call for. He's not going to get the 11 that the government's asking for, but he's not going to get out on time served. And here's why. This judge heard all of the evidence in this case.

1:59:33He saw the video of Diddy beating the hell out of that poor woman in that hotel. And he doesn't, the judge is not required to forget about it. They have this video that they're playing today in the sentencing hearing. It's one of these, you know, what you call mitigation videos. Yeah, we watched one minute of it. Yeah, you cherry pick bits and pieces of somebody's life to show how great they are, how kind they are, how good of a husband and father they are. But the judge is like, wait a minute, that's inconsistent with all the stuff that I heard from the witness stand and in this courtroom for weeks and weeks and weeks.

2:00:08So the judge is going to look at that. And by the way, the defense even went so far in their brief to tell the judge that Cassie and the others were not victims in the case. Well, Cassie sees it a different way. She says, I was a victim, and I'm afraid of the guy. So the judge is going to remember all that, and he's going to give him a significant prison sentence, I think maybe even north of five years now. I'll tell you what I'm worried about, Dave. I'm worried that the judge gives him a stiff sentence, which I want to see. Like seven years, I'd be very happy with seven years. And then it's so severe that Trump pardons him.

2:00:39or commutes it. Trump has said he's going to see what the sentence is. So I do think if it is too harsh, then he's likely to get a pardon. So that is concerning. I agree with what Phil said. The judge is a human being too. He saw that video of Diddy manhandling Cassie. And keep in mind that even though Diddy is now saying, give me a second chance and I want to be a better person, he denied everything from beginning to end in this case and in every other matter that he's been involved and he's never taken responsibility except when the video came out of him physically assaulting Cassie. That's when he had to come up and say, I made a mistake.

2:01:13Other than that, he hasn't taken responsibility for a thing. Well, in his brief, in their brief, they said he has accepted responsibility. In addition to saying Cassie's not a victim, which I thought was preposterous, they said that he's accepted responsibility. I'm like, when? When has he accepted responsibility for a damn thing? Exactly. Well, now in his letter, he's saying, I've learned, I'm a changed man, and now he's going to I presumably say that same thing directly to the judge. We'll see. This judge doesn't seem like a dope and doesn't, you know, him allowing himself to consider the acts of violence is definitely good for the prosecution.

2:01:46But we'll know soon enough. Guys, thank you. Have a great weekend. Great to see you. Happy to be here anytime. Thank you. See you in Miami. Happy birthday, Phil. Thank you, Megan. Okay, so I want to tell you before we go, I've mentioned it like a couple of times this week that I've been working on this rebuttal to this absolute disgusting hit job the New York Times did on Charlie Kirk this week. I mean, it was truly shameful by Nicole Hannah-Jones. And I really put some time into it because I want her side to watch this, not just side of reason. I want her side to see it and see exactly what she's done to him, how dishonest she is, and what Charlie actually said in the clips that she's used to bastardize him.

2:02:30I think you're going to find it very interesting. It's under an hour, right about there, around an hour. And we're going to release it tomorrow morning, a special episode. I think you'll like it because there's very rarely new content in the podcast world. On Saturdays, you can listen to it then or Sunday or whenever you want. But I think you'll find it helpful in combating the lies being told about our friend, Charlie Kirk. Thank you for watching, you guys. And we will see you on Monday. Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.