Disaffected Young Men, Michelle Obama's Hair Complaints, and Embracing the Right - Charlie Sheen, VDH, and Jack Posobiec at MK Live | Ep. 1199

12:47Megyn Kelly:She's so proud of herself because she's in Michigan. She's like the same guys who put Trump in office, elected me as a U.S. senator. That was a fail. It's a rare MAGA fail. She needs to be voted out of office as soon as humanly possible, which unfortunately is not going to be for another few years because she's relatively new, but that's my quick thought on it. Go ahead, sir. Hi.

13:03Jack Posobiec:Hi, Megan. I'm Jim. your best interviews are the ones where you're taking the left on head to head and i'm thinking jake tapper i'm thinking bill maher we love that because you're speaking for us and we imagine ourselves finally getting to hit the other side right where it hits and you don't back down can you have more interviews like that on your show yes and if they don't go if you the a-listers won't show up i recommend go to the b-list go to the c-list go to a college student who wants to get famous. Just we want to see the ideas defeated and you're the one to do it.

13:35Megyn Kelly:Oh, I love that. Thank you. You know, I don't do enough of that. You're right. Whenever I have somebody on and we get into it, you know, like whatever. There was a clip of, I think it was Scott Gottlieb on there. Remember him during the COVID lockdowns? He had been in the Trump administration and he was trying to run around, tell us as a former Republican, we could trust him when he said masks had to be on our toddlers. Like that was, that was a fun one. I don't miss him, but I do miss those exchanges. Hello, sir. Love the jacket.

14:03Victor Davis Hanson:Thank you. It loves you back. It's amazing what you can get at Walmart these days. One serious, one light. How do we stop puberty blockers and kids who are only seven years old?

14:15Megyn Kelly:We're winning. We're winning, right? I know I'm in the People's Republic of California, but in the other world, we're winning that fight. And I think eventually it's going to have to be handled by the U.S. Supreme Court. It cannot be a state-by-state thing. It's literal child abuse. They're literally sterilizing minors without any possible informed consent. It's barbaric. It's the new lobotomy. And we will look back at this day with shame. California needs to get on its act because you cannot have these far-left lunatics. You need Steve Hilton. That's what you need. And he will help save this state and the children in it.

14:56Megyn Kelly:But in the meantime, this is not an issue that we can be silent on. Our children are literally being sterilized. If you cannot speak up for that, you are failing in your responsibility as an American citizen, as our first questioner said. So your second one quickly.

15:10Jack Posobiec:What's your favorite Elvis song? Oh, Hound Dog, which I think was one of his first.

15:17Megyn Kelly:Thank you.

15:20Charlie Sheen:Hi, Megan. I'm Connor. I'm Chloe. Hi. And I've heard you speak about the Epstein files, and there's a lot of young people talking about it and I kind of wanted to see how you or what you would say for the young people and trying to bring them in.

15:35Megyn Kelly:On Epstein files, like to follow the coverage? Yeah, yes ma 'am. Well, I mean, I think it's very interesting for young people and old, but especially for young people because I think what's really interesting about the Epstein story for a lot of people is how does our system, those in power, work to protect one another irrespective of party? How does money and connections and fame and power all work together to get this web of protection across party lines? And who gets screwed over, right? Because that same web that will work together to protect some very bad guys will work to screw you when it comes to property taxes and other taxes and the way government works and insider trading in Congress.

16:20Megyn Kelly:You know, there are certain things that are so corrupt and disgusting, they cross party lines that leave young people feeling like they can't trust anybody, which is one of the reasons why Trump came under such pressure to just release the files and sort of did. I mean, I wouldn't put too much stock in what we're about to get from these files because there's like enough exceptions to what Pam Bondi has to produce that you could drive a truck through. So just keep your expectations moderate. it.

16:48Charlie Sheen:And then my last question was, what's like one piece of advice that you can give to young conservatives like ourselves to keep bringing more people in?

16:56Megyn Kelly:Don't be shy about your values. Don't hide it. You especially need that out here in California. Do not hide it now thinking that, you know, when you graduate high school, when you graduate college, when you get your first job and then leave that first job, then you'll finally be able to tell people about your conservative principles. No, you're seeding the fight. That's exactly what Charlie knew that the rest of us had been missing. Don't seed the fight for young people in particular. Get in there. You can do it better than I can. They'll listen to you more than they'll listen to me. Become an effective messenger.

17:24Megyn Kelly:Listen to people who are effective messengers and learn the arguments so well that you can rattle it off the top of your head with ease. You know, we always said like in the law, if I had a longer time, I would have written a shorter brief. And the same thing applies to rhetorical skills, like study a lot, talk a lot, listen to people who argue well a lot, and then your arguing will get better and more succinct and you'll be able to do it more effectively with the people who really matter. Thank you.

17:51Megyn Kelly:Hi. Hi, Megan. Love you. Love you. Okay. How do we feel about Tucker having Nick Fuentes on his show? A lot of people want to know that. Did you hear what she said? How do we feel about Tucker having Nick Fuentes on his show? You know, I asked Tucker about it and my own belief is the reason he did it. This is not from him, but my belief is that the reason he did it was because he wanted to convey to him that it is not conservative to apply collective judgment or punishment to any group of people. And Nick Fuentes does that not only with Jews, but he does it with blacks, he does it with women, he does it with Indians.

18:28Megyn Kelly:I mean, like, there's a whole host of groups that he does it with. And my own belief is that Tucker thought, given Tucker, who's more of an elder statesman now in the party, that he had a shot at reaching Nick Fuentes. And my own belief is that that's also why Tucker did not emerge with Nick Fuentes' jugular, that he thought that would defeat the point, right? Like, if you're trying to reach somebody, how are you going to do that if you put them on the defensive right away? Like, here are all the terrible things you said. And so if you look at it from that standpoint, I think you understand it.

18:57Megyn Kelly:Now, do I want to interview Nick? I don't. Not at all. Because if you watch Nick Fuentes, you will hear a lot of really horrible things. And it's very jarring. Like, he's smart. I don't take that away from him. He's got a very compelling way of speaking and like delivery. And he's actually made a lot of predictions about what's going to happen in the country politically that are correct. And I don't dismiss the fact that he's very popular, especially with young disaffected men who we need to be talking to and understanding as opposed to just judging. But if you spend enough time listening to him, you will hear things that will make your eyelids peel back from your, I mean, it's like really jarring, upsetting characterizations of Jews and blacks and women and all the things, not to mention his hatred for Charlie.

19:37Megyn Kelly:So go ahead. Was Tucker a little easy on him? No, I don't think he was. I think he had a different goal than to beat up on him. So if that were his goal, he'd know how to do it. We saw him do that with Ted Cruz. Yeah. Hi.

19:51Victor Davis Hanson:Hi there. Thank you for being part of the revival and modeling how to share our voices.

19:56Charlie Sheen:I really appreciate it. Two things. Three things, sorry. First question is, when you were a child, what was your favorite name?

20:03Megyn Kelly:Maybe just pick one because the line is long.

20:05Victor Davis Hanson:The second one is really big to me. I'm starting to see Islamic coming into California, and I see these girls and women being covered.

20:14Megyn Kelly:How do we legally fight their invasion? That's a good question. Apologies. There's so many people standing behind you. That is a good question. I think the first thing is we have to be real honest about what we want in our country. And I just think it's fine to say, to be honest about the fact that I don't think Islamic leaders are appropriate for American cities. Islam is not consistent with the values of the West. It's just not. Above all, it's a political doctrine. It's not just a religion. It's a political doctrine. And there's no separation of church and state in Islam. They don't respect women's rights in Islam.

20:52Megyn Kelly:They don't respect free speech in Islam. And while, you know, if that's your thing and you happen to be a Muslim, okay, fine. But I just don't think this is the place for you to actually obtain a position of political power. And I think we need to be honest about that. Go ahead, ma 'am. Hi, I'm Vicki. Hi. There seems to be a lot of concern in the country now about income inequality. I was wondering if you thought there should be any restraints on unfettered capitalism, and if so, what should they be? Thank you for that. I don't think there should be restraints on unfettered capitalism, really.

21:25Megyn Kelly:I mean, I think capitalism is the way, and I'm really not pro the communist movement that's taking over places like New York. I don't believe with Zoran Mamdani that we shouldn't have billionaires. This is the United fucking States of America. You can come with nothing and you can wind up a billionaire. Only here. Only here. It's one of the majesties that is, you know, this country. That there is still, I know a lot of people don't feel it, but there is still the possibility of the American dream. And it's what gives people hope. It's why we have amazing inventors. It's why we invent everything.

21:58Megyn Kelly:Like I went over to Scandinavia a couple years ago. What did they invent? Like, Ozempic, that was good. What else, right? We do it all because of capitalism and the promise of changing your life. So I don't think, I understand income inequality, and a whole lot needs to be done to help the bottom up. And I don't mean government handouts, but I mean like just the way we're educating people right now in general for one thing. But the answer is not to hurt the people who have made it at the top. All right, we'll take one more, and then we got to get the show on the road.

22:25Charlie Sheen:Hi, Megan. Hi. I am wondering if you've ever taken your kids to see Mount Rushmore in South Dakota. Oh, we have.

22:31Megyn Kelly:Yes. Oh, yeah, yeah. We're so glad you can make it. Are you from South Dakota? I am.

22:35Charlie Sheen:I drove here all the way from Rapid City to see you.

22:37Megyn Kelly:You did? Thank you. And my favorite cousin, Tammy. I came to see her, too, here in Bakersfield. Nice, Tammy. Thank you for helping get this wonderful lady to us. It's a pleasure to talk to you. We did go to Mount Rushmore, and we saw Crazy Horse, too, which we had never seen. Have you seen the Crazy Horse monument? It's way bigger than Mount Rushmore. It's this Native American. It's a stunning display. And we do try to take our kids to places other than the Northeast. You know, we have a place in Montana. We go there many, many weeks a year. We have a little place in the New Jersey Shore where we go in the summer.

23:11Megyn Kelly:We're surrounded by firefighters and school teachers. What we really don't want is our kids to grow up spoiled brats who think, you know, everybody's got a private jet, which, you know, in our town in Connecticut, some people do. And it's very, very important to us that they try to grow up as normal as possible. but I love this story. I've told this before, but we were out in Montana. We were at a rodeo one time, and our little guy, who's 12 now, was probably six, and we're sitting there, and at the beginning of the rodeo in Montana, you know they're going to sing the national anthem, and Thatcher was a little slow to his feet, and I didn't have to say one word.

23:50Megyn Kelly:There was a real cowboy with the hat and the shirt and the jeans. He was like, you better get up, boy. I mean, immediately I was like, I could do no better. This is my village, right? Anyway, so it is important. We loved Mount Rushmore. It's so worth your time. I love it so much. I'll tell you, it's one thing, and then we'll go. We're having a big 4th of July celebration this year, as we always do. You know, we bring out our colonial costumes. We reenact the Declaration of Independence. We go full bore. And Abby knows, my assistant knows, the one thing I've always wanted for this celebration but I've never been able to get is a huge paper mache of Mount Rushmore.

24:27Megyn Kelly:I want to stuff it in the back of my lawn. You know, how cool would that be to walk around? And then she got back to me. She said, I finally found somebody who can do it. I'm like, great. This is the year. And she shot me an email yesterday saying it will cost$18 ,000. And I said, it's a no. We'll hire a guy to walk around in like a Lincoln costume. That's the closest we're going to get. Okay, let's go. We want to get on with the show. Thank you, guys. Thanks so much for those great questions. So, my first guest and I actually have a very interesting back history. We used to hate each other. I thought he was crazy.

25:02Megyn Kelly:He thought I was crazy. We sniped at each other on Twitter. We did not like each other. We had, like, surrogates who would snipe at each other about how terrible I was or how terrible he was. And so, the love I have for Jax Posobiec grew naturally, if somewhat slowly over the years. And you won't be surprised at all to learn the person who ultimately brought us together was Charlie Kirk. So what happened was, as we got closer to the Trump era, and I became sane again after that ridiculous stint at NBC, and I started to realize how crazy the left was, and I completely started to understand Trump much better and became a true Trump fan, we kind of started to appreciate each other's Twitter game.

25:46Megyn Kelly:You know, I was liking a lot of his stuff, he started to like some of my stuff too. I thought, oh my God, we actually might, we might be able to connect this guy and I. We actually might be able to be friends. And then it happened as it does with so many that we met backstage at a turning point event and we hugged and Charlie was right there and I knew that a friendship had been born. And now he has my back all the time on X and I have his too. And I follow him religiously because he posts so many pearls of wisdom that I learned from all the time, which doesn't surprise me because he was in the Navy, he served his country with honor, and he's been fighting for his country in a different way ever since.

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27:41Charlie Sheen:We're not at a good time in this country. You need to take a stand and you need to pick a side now. Doing the normie thing of sitting around and thinking things are going to get better, they're not. They're not going to get better on their own. To the world, Charlie Kirk was conservative firebrand, hero, cultural icon. but to me, he was my friend. For Charlie's sacrifice for all of us, we will overcome their evil. The bullets are only going in one direction in this country. You know what you didn't see? You didn't see violence. You didn't see a single person raise a fist in anger. You didn't see a single person on the right come out and say, I'm going to go do something violent in retaliation for Charlie.

28:24Charlie Sheen:It just didn't happen because we are not those people. Stop being the silent majority. You've got to speak out now. And we will never, ever let them forget the name Charlie Kirk.

28:46Yay!

28:51Megyn Kelly:I could tell the story, didn't you? I did it so fun. Here, you're right there. There you go. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's a fun story because we overcame it, you know?

29:04Charlie Sheen:We did overcome it. Thanks to Charlie. She had to tell the story. She had to put me on blast, didn't she?

29:09Megyn Kelly:But, I mean, maybe you have a relationship like that in your life where you feel like, oh, no, no, we don't like each other. There's no way forward. Maybe there is. Maybe you can find just a couple of lily pads, as I like to say, where you can jump on together, and then before you know it, you're swimming in the pond.

29:21Charlie Sheen:But you know what? That's what Charlie did. And Charlie did that all throughout the movement. and we see so much even right now. There's a lot of dissension, there's a lot of infighting that's going on and you realize that Charlie would always try to find a way to take people who may be on different sides of an issue or maybe just had some bad interaction and he would find a way to build that bridge because Charlie understood that it was about all of us fighting together and we are up against billionaires. We are up against psychopaths. And I'm not just talking about Gavin Newsom, but he understood that if we were ever going to succeed, we had to do so together.

30:09Charlie Sheen:And I appreciate you having me here, Megan, because, and I don't know if everyone, I'm sure most people realize this, I'm not supposed to be sitting on the stage right now. Charlie Kirk is supposed to be sitting on this stage right now. And he's not here because of them. And we are not going to ever rest and we are not going to ever stop and we are not going to ever let them forget the name of Charlie Kirk.

30:35Megyn Kelly:That's right. Or Bruce Merchant. Right. The war to define his legacy is on. And they try to smear him every day on the left in the New York Times and MSNBC and beyond. And his friends, his true friends, have all been out there fighting back against it. But I don't know, Jack. I've told others this. I think I've told you this. When you stood up at Charlie's funeral with the rosary beads in your hand like that, it was like a Malcolm X almost like pose with the rosary beads. I felt better. And when I talked to you and Benny Johnson backstage, that day of Charlie's memorial, you guys said something that actually made me feel comforted for the first time.

31:18Megyn Kelly:And this may sound kind of weird because everyone knows I'm not a shrinking violet and I'm not afraid of a fight, but I felt so much better because we were having a debate right then about whether we should reach out to the left. We needed to reach across the aisle and like extend the hand or whether it was a time to fight because they were literally murdering us now. And you guys said, you were pissed. You guys were angry at the loss of Charlie, and you guys said, you know, no offense, but it's time to let the men handle things right now. And I loved it. I loved it. It wasn't actually about men.

31:57Megyn Kelly:It was about fighters. It was about this is a time for fighting.

32:03Charlie Sheen:Look, you come to situations, and you hope that you can solve things with words, and Charlie tried to do that. You hope you can solve things with debate, and that's what our great country is all about. But when someone decides to stop using the ballot box, and then what do we see in this country? They went to the jury box with President Trump and the law fair and hundreds of thousands, really, of patriots. And then when that still didn't work and they continued to lose power, they switched to the bullet box. and you had this guy climb up on a roof and take a shot and kill Charlie Kirk. And when I see something like that happen, I say, look, and CNN asked me about this, and they're probably not going to invite me back on anytime soon.

32:52Charlie Sheen:That's okay.

32:53Victor Davis Hanson:You're good.

32:54Charlie Sheen:And yeah, I'll be all right. I'm not going to lose sleep. And I said, look, I'm more than happy to unite with anyone who wants to have a conversation. but if you support that like the thousands of people that we saw laughing about it and cheering about it then I am not interested in uniting with you I am only interested in defeating you right

33:21Megyn Kelly:I have felt since that day, not accidentally that there's like I don't know, there's an evil in the air have you felt it at all? like there's something, there's sort of a pall that's been cast over us since then. I think we're actively fighting demons that are struggling for the souls of our fellow Americans and that are getting some of them. That's why you have that woman doing the, right? Like that woman, I really feel like a demon is involved there. A teacher. Right, who's got little children in her classroom all day. talk about those rosary beads how do we protect ourselves

34:05Charlie Sheen:you mentioned the rosary beads so I had to get them here tonight and bring them and Megan because you said something so nice on your show the other day about them I figured why not bring an extra set that I could give to you

34:22Megyn Kelly:thank you they're so beautiful they just feel empowering

34:29Charlie Sheen:this has right in the center there that has St. Michael the Archangel right there.

34:33Megyn Kelly:Defend us in battle.

34:35Charlie Sheen:And for folks who know the St. Michael prayer, it's St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle. Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him, we humbly pray. And do thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Host, that the power of God cast into hell Satan and all the evil spirits who wander about the world seeking the ruin of souls. Amen. And that's... Amen. That's it.

35:06Megyn Kelly:Thank you. This means so much to me. Of course. Thank you. You joined Turning Point. What year was it? 2021?

35:16Charlie Sheen:It was, yeah. So I was doing events back to 2018, but I didn't formally join until 2021. And that's when we started the show Human Events Daily, and Charlie and Tyler came and said, hey, we want to do this idea. We want to expand into media and do news. And we want you to be that guy. And I said, be honored to do it. I don't know if anyone's going to watch, but I'm happy to do it. And let's keep going. And then Charlie had his show and I had my show. And it just grew and grew.

35:45Megyn Kelly:So one of the things you've clearly figured out in your time with Turning Point, with Charlie, out on the road with Turning Point, is maybe what's going on with young men in America. and you actually had a really interesting piece this week talking about that and also talking about the trans furry thing that we keep seeing right? We saw it, we know that Charlie's accused assassin was dating a man who was both a trans and an alleged furry, you know, I mean alleged because that's not a thing, neither is trans and now we hear the same about the butler shooter who himself was they, them, and into furry culture.

36:28Megyn Kelly:And you're the first person I heard really talk about those two strains in a way that might actually explain why some of these men, these disaffected young white men, are falling prey to that insanity, which then leads to violence.

36:43Charlie Sheen:Yeah, so, and this is, you know, like you're close to these stories and you try to analyze it objectively, and it's tough. But at the same time, you have to look at the facts and follow the facts where they lead. And we know on the face of it that this furry culture and more of this transgender culture comes up in both cases. And what's interesting is it's also, I think, an aspect of transhumanism. And transhumanism is, of course, this idea that we can transcend our human bodies. And Yuval Harari talks about this, and he goes over to the World Economic Forum a lot. And what it means is that they sell this idea that you can become something which you are not.

37:27Charlie Sheen:And that's really what it comes down to. And it's a break with reality. And a break with reality, if you go to the classic textbook definition psychologically, is psychosis. That is the definition of what a psychotic break with reality is, a rejection of reality. A man cannot become a woman. A woman cannot become a man. It's physically impossible. A human being cannot, which is true. This is true. And I know to say that in a California is a revolutionary act, I suppose. Gavin, I'm here, by the way. I promised I'd come by. And to attempt to turn yourself into an animal is also impossible. And yet, that there's this kind of toxic situation where young men, particularly young white men, have been so completely dispossessed in our society, totally disenfranchised.

38:18Charlie Sheen:You see this with Tyler Robinson, his trans boyfriend, Lance Twiggs, these downwardly mobile young white males who are castigated by society, are told that everything that is wrong with society is their fault. They see program after program set up for every other race and ethnicity and gender other than them. and they start to disconnect from reality. They see the economic situation not being good for Gen Z and for young people, so they disconnect with reality, and you look at what do all of them have in common. Think about this. And I mentioned this in the piece for Human Events. Luigi Maggioni, Thomas Matthew Crooks, and Tyler Robinson.

38:59Charlie Sheen:They were all in high school during COVID. They were all in... So imagine you're in that situation. now you can't leave your home you're locked in you've got your cell phone you've got that little piece of glass right in front of you so if you can't go into the outside world what do you do? you go into the virtual world and you're then inundated and Charlie spoke about this you're inundated with pornography and the pornography becomes more and more extreme we know that Tyler Robinson was looking at pornography which involved furries and drawings which involved young very sick stuff young animals, human animal creatures, almost like a form of child pornography.

39:42Charlie Sheen:And at some point, you start to blend your vision of what's reality and what is false reality. And because of the cognitive dissonance of not being able to actually achieve that in reality, it expresses itself in violence.

39:58Megyn Kelly:So how do we even begin to go about finding those guys and helping them?

40:05Charlie Sheen:Well, I think you have to put it in different buckets. This country used to have a problem with serial killers. We set up units at the FBI. We set up units at Quantico. There's movies about this. You can go watch them. And we understood and unpacked what it was that made the serial killer tick, and we went after them. We set up behavioral sciences to get them off the streets. So for the ones that are becoming incredibly and more increasingly violent, you have to get them off. Look, the New York Post, Miranda Devine, had the story this week. Thomas Matthew Crooks was conducting Google searches in his true name, asking about how to kill Donald Trump, how to look up the distance from Butler, what type of shot was JFK and how far, Oswald and all this other stuff.

40:49Charlie Sheen:It's all out there. And yet the FBI was more interested in going after parents who were at school boards that didn't want trans in the classroom and Catholics who were praying the rosary a little bit too hard. That's what our FBI was doing. And if our FBI had actually been focused on this threat the way it was, then Donald Trump would not have been shot in Butler and Charlie Kirk would be sitting right here and not me.

41:15Megyn Kelly:That's absolutely right.

41:17Charlie Sheen:And I would say, And just in addition to that, though, in addition to that, you also, so get the ones off the street that are too far gone. Lock them up. Don't just medicate them. They actually need to be under intensive care. Rebuild the mental institutions, of course. Yes. And yes, and you in California know that better than others. Yes. And then you don't want people getting lost in our false reality. So that means we have to make actual reality better for young people, for Gen Z. You have to have a pathway to ownership, to equity, to being able to get on your feet in society today. And that means making the economy better.

41:55Charlie Sheen:That means getting rid of the 30 million illegal aliens that are probably just here in California and, you know, across the entire country. Because how can we possibly expect people to go into a society that is so messed up?

42:08Megyn Kelly:And I would add one other thing to that, which is wokeism must die. Of course. Of course. These young men cannot hear one more day of they have some original sin as a result of what happened in this country 200 years ago that they must bear that will not get them into a good college program or get them into a good trade or get them a wife because they've been dubbed toxically masculine. All of that must stop, has to stop if we want to rescue an entire generation of young men. Thank God it started with President Trump getting reelected. I wanted to show you something that made the news today. This is Sam Harris.

42:43Megyn Kelly:Do you guys know who that is? Sam Harris? Yeah, so you do.

42:47Charlie Sheen:Sam's a big fan of mine. He loves me.

42:50Megyn Kelly:So Sam Harris considers himself an intellectual type. He's an atheist. He's big into meditation. He's the son of the woman who created the Golden Girls. Yes. Yeah, so. And he's very good on certain things. Like if you ever look at the old clips of Sam Harris on Belmar talking about the problem of Islam, he will tell it like it is. however he's got a serious case of TDS and he's apparently also got some Charlie Kirk derangement syndrome that affected his commentary today on this soundbite take a listen to this

43:21Charlie Sheen:there's no party left of center real party for political assassination and yet right of center

43:30Jack Posobiec:very prominent people from the president and Elon on down treated it like the first shot fired in the Civil War. Totally irresponsible, totally dishonest. I mean, these people were arsonists pretending to be firefighters. I mean, Elon jumped on X within minutes before, I think before Kirk was declared dead, certainly before his killer was caught and said, the left is the party of murder. It's beyond reckless. I mean, it's just sociopathic. He is just flinging matches into a landscape that has been just soaked in gasoline. And the soaking has been done mostly by Trump and Trumpism.

44:18Megyn Kelly:So discussing the actual murder of Charlie Kirk, you heard he was full of blame for whom? Not the left. He excused them for Elon and Trump, who he said were arsonists disguising themselves as firemen. Your thoughts on it?

44:34Charlie Sheen:Well, what he's doing here is a very clear example of victim blaming. And he's also, I love this, because who is the real victim in the murder of Charlie Kirk? Is it Charlie? No. Is it Erica? No. Is it the children? No. It's Sam Harris. Sam Harris thinks that he's the one who's the victim, the same way the leftists always play the victim card every single time, no matter what has happened. And what he's using here is a technique which is known as DARVO. And DARVO is something that narcissists and leftists, I know, I repeat myself, are you all the time. It's simple. It's called deny, attack, and then reverse victim and offender.

45:13Charlie Sheen:So deny, say that that didn't happen. You attack back, so you counterpunch, and then you reverse victim and offender. Once you see this tactic, you will see the left use it over and over again. And that's always what Sam Harris does. Now, I could show you videos, by the way. We all could. If you don't believe me, go look at my friend Libs of TikTok and Haya Rychik, and she'll show you the thousands of people who are celebrating the death of Charlie Kirk. Olivia Kralchuk was, I think, calling a lot of employers, and Rudy Giuliani was calling a lot of employers. And yet they will still sit there and look you square in the face and lie to you and say none of that ever happened, none of those people exist.

45:56Charlie Sheen:Well, ladies and gentlemen, 1.7 million people in Virginia just voted for Jay Jones after he had text messages saying that all of our children should be made to die so that we will feel pain and that we then may change our stance on policy. We have a huge problem in this country, and the bullets are only flying one way.

46:19Megyn Kelly:That's right. And what did Elon say that wasn't true? What did he say? He blamed the left, and he was exactly right. Charlie's shooter, accused shooter, is of the left, and that's very clear, no matter what the left now tries to say.

46:31Charlie Sheen:The bullet casing said, hey, fascist catch, and the other casing said, Bella Chow on it, and Bella Chow is the international anthem of Antifa.

46:41Megyn Kelly:God bless you. Thank you for leading with faith, with love, but with toughness. That's exactly what we need. Thank you.

46:47Charlie Sheen:And Megan, if you would indulge me, today's actually, and I know you're going to see her on Saturday, but today's actually Erica Kirk's birthday. and I was wondering if you guys could all join me in saying happy birthday to Erica

46:59Megyn Kelly:oh I love that alright sing it loud because I'm not a good singer

47:05Charlie Sheen:happy birthday to you happy birthday to you happy birthday dear Erica happy birthday to you

47:23Megyn Kelly:That's beautiful. Thank you. Thank you.

47:37Megyn Kelly:Awesome, right? Sorry, but that's what we need. I see Jack as like the red meat of our party. You know, you need red meat. You know I guess somebody has to be the broccoli too Somebody's got to be the martini I'll do that You need the red meat too And that of course leads me to Victor Davis Hanson I know He's so great If you know somebody more brilliant Than Victor Davis Hanson Then you know better people than I do Because honestly There are a lot of great guests that we have on the MK show But there is not a single guest who is smarter than VDH You know he's a professor at Stanford University.

48:21Megyn Kelly:It's amazing they still have him. He's got tenure for life, that's the problem. He's the fellow at the Hoover Institution. He's a professor of the classics, which he had to explain to me the first time he came onto my show, what the hell that is. I didn't even know. I went to public school, as you know. And he's been educating us all ever since. He is beloved by Donald Trump, and I think by all of us. Take a look at VDH. I've been talking a lot about Riverbend Ranch because I love their steaks. Riverbend Ranch has taken black Angus beef to a whole new level. For the last 35 years, Riverbend Ranch has been creating a very elite Angus herd by using ultrasound to select genetically superior cattle with a focus on flavor and tenderness.

49:09Megyn Kelly:When you buy from Riverbend Ranch, you are not only supporting the 64 cowboys and cowgirls and their families who work on the ranch, but you are also supporting over 260 other U.S. ranches and the hundreds of American families who work on them. It's born in the USA, raised in the USA, and processed here too. It is aged to perfection for 21 days and shipped directly from the ranch to your home. This is not your average black Angus beef. So order from riverbendranch.com. Use the promo code MEGAN for 20 bucks off your first order and let me know what you think. Riverbendranch.com, promo code MEGAN.

49:51Megyn Kelly:It's so great to see you! You're not alone. It's only the liberal media and the haters who want you to think that. We're in the majority right now. We're from Chicago. We flew in just for this. I was like, we have to go. And after what happened to Charlie, I'm like, we definitely have to go. Don't miss your last chance to be part of the Megyn Kelly Live Tour. It's a very important time in our country, Megyn.

50:13Charlie Sheen:stand firmly. Do not waver on the truth.

50:16Megyn Kelly:Next stops, Bakersfield, Anaheim and the grand finale in Glendale, Arizona, featuring special guest Erica Kirk. I really genuinely feel like it's more important right now than ever. You know, for all the reasons. And it took courage for all of you to come.

50:33Charlie Sheen:The biggest thing we can do is be unafraid.

50:39Megyn Kelly:So go get your tickets right now before they sell out. MeganKelley.com. presented by Y-Refi and SiriusXM.

50:51Victor Davis Hanson:I'm holding here my formerly nicotine-stained figure, a column written today by Victor Davis Hanson.

50:59Megyn Kelly:I want to just read you a quote by Victor Davis Hanson.

51:02Jack Posobiec:Victor Davis Hanson at the National Review.

51:04Megyn Kelly:Victor Davis Hanson writes of the president today.

51:06Victor Davis Hanson:A great gentleman, Victor Davis Hanson.

51:09Jack Posobiec:You were one of the first intellectuals to support Donald Trump. You just spoke to the people. We had to fight back and not be worried what people said. Dr. Fauci, he's told us masks are essential. They're not essential. One mask is okay. No, two is better. I just lied because it was for your own good.

51:28Megyn Kelly:I like to torture you, BDH. Look at this.

51:31Jack Posobiec:It's kind of like an athlete that never lifts weights or never runs.

51:35Megyn Kelly:Unburdened by what has been.

51:37Jack Posobiec:She just is intellectually lazy.

51:39Megyn Kelly:Letitia James' grandniece. Here she is, Victor. Are you familiar with the website OnlyFans, my friend? Have you heard?

51:48Jack Posobiec:No, I have not.

51:50Megyn Kelly:Okay.

51:51Jack Posobiec:During the Reagan years, that was a very liberating period.

51:54Charlie Sheen:Make America great again.

51:56Jack Posobiec:With all due respect to his memory and legacy, I don't think he did as much in eight years as Donald Trump has done it.

52:03Victor Davis Hanson:We're going to win so much, you may even get tired of winning.

52:06Jack Posobiec:He's not done yet. He's indestructible.

52:11Megyn Kelly:One, the only, Victor Davis Hanson!

52:18Woo!

52:26Jack Posobiec:So fun.

52:29Megyn Kelly:Yes, the legend. Look at this. Look at that. Aw, they love you, Victor. Oh, you guys are so sweet. Look at that welcome. They love you.

52:42Jack Posobiec:I have a confession to make.

52:44Megyn Kelly:Tell me.

52:45Jack Posobiec:I've always lived in Fresno County. I was born in the same house. But I've always preferred Bakersfield to Fresno.

52:53Megyn Kelly:Oh! And there it is. Victor, let me pick up with you where I left off with Jack. What do you make of that Sam Harris coming out and saying The issue with respect to Charlie's death is that Elon sent out a tweet blaming the left and that Trump was too incendiary around it and that these were arsonists pretending to be firemen. That that's really the issue.

53:21Jack Posobiec:I didn't hear that last part.

53:23Megyn Kelly:That they were arsonists pretending to be firemen, Trump and Elon, after Charlie Kirk died. And really the issue was their rhetoric, their rhetoric around Charlie's murder, not the leftist rhetoric that got him killed.

53:39Jack Posobiec:Yeah, I don't really pay attention to any of that, not to sound sanctimonious, but Charlie Kirk, if I could just say something about him, He did two things that nobody else will ever do in my lifetime. And the first was he told left wing, he said to people all over campuses in America, 18 to 30, he said, you have a natural rebellious nature. And I want you to encourage that because the establishment is not the conservative establishment. The left is the establishment. So it's natural to rebel, not just because you're young, because you're logical. and these people are crazy. And that was very unique.

54:20The other thing is he didn't go to college and graduate,

54:24Jack Posobiec:and yet he goes to the Oxford debate union, and he takes on supposedly the most sophisticated people in the English-speaking world, and he shows that you don't have to go to college to show how uneducated a lot of people in college are. And it's like I've spent 50 years in academia with PhDs, and then I was given a great gift to live on a farm. And that schizophrenia, I would come from the academic world and I was told how smart they were and then I saw what farmers did and I knew how stupid they were. Because there's nobody smarter than a farmer. He's a mechanic, he's a genius, he does everything, but not academics.

55:03Jack Posobiec:And Charlie knew that.

55:06Megyn Kelly:And yet you spent a lifetime in this crazy environment. So how did they never pull you leftward? I have a twin brother that doesn't speak to me, so it pulled everybody in my generation and my family.

55:26Jack Posobiec:I had a great gift. When I was 17, my parents were very practical, and they said, there's a new campus. It's called UC Santa Cruz, and it's the closest one. All three of you guys can go there, and you'll save money. So I went there, and it was a communist crazy place, And so you either had two choices, to join them or to rebel against them. And I rebelled against them. And I came home.

55:49Megyn Kelly:But how did you withstand it, right? Because you look at, you know, these judges who go on to the Supreme Court and they get sucked into the Georgetown Party circuit. And then suddenly they need to be loved by the leftist Washington Post. And certainly a professor, like on a university campus like Stanford, a lesser man would have submitted to the leftist dogma long ago. So I don't get it. Like how did you do it?

56:13Jack Posobiec:I was a great... I wish I could take credit, but I can't because the first thing I did when I got to the Hoover Institution, I taught 21 great years at Cal State Fresno. I loved it there, but I was burned out. So I got to Hoover and this strange guy called me up and he said, I like what you write. We're going to have lunch twice a month for the next 15 years. It was Tom Sowell. Thomas Sowell. And I never met a more brilliant guy. And so, and then the next guy I met was Shelby Steele. Wow. And the third guy I met was Scott Atlas.

56:53Megyn Kelly:Oh my gosh.

56:53Jack Posobiec:And I said, these people are so much brighter than the entire Stanford faculty. So I never had a doubt. And then when people said, well, this person says you're crazy, or this person says you're a farmer hick, or this person says you belong back at Fresno State, I would say, Tom, Scott, what's the reality? So I had a group of people who I admired and they were brilliant. So I was very lucky, very, very lucky. I had wonderful parents. My parents, my grandfather lived on a farm for five, four generations and he had three daughters and he mortgaged this little farm and sent them to Stanford University.

57:34Jack Posobiec:And so So my mom, 1942, had two degrees from Stanford. Then she went to law school there. And then she went back and became a mom with three kids and worked on the farm. And then she became the first.

57:48Megyn Kelly:And you still have the farm, the raising farm. Yeah.

57:50Jack Posobiec:So she was, I got a good, the good thing about that was because they had gone to college, the first generation, they kept saying, don't be warped by college. Don't not, you have to work. I came home the first semester. I said, hey, I know, hey, I'm going to take Latin. And my father said, do you know how to weld? Do you know how to wire the dehydrator? And when I graduated with a PhD. Maybe a little more practical. Yeah, I graduated with a PhD at 25. And I came home and I said, I didn't even go to the graduation. I had to work at a farm. And my dad said, my brother was kind of a smart, very bright guy, very smart, but kind of smart-alecky.

58:30Jack Posobiec:So I came back and said, I have a PhD in classics from Stanford. and he said to my dad, he's like a dog that can dance on two legs. It's really impressive, but nobody knows what it's for.

58:43All right.

58:44Megyn Kelly:Let's talk a little politics, because I promised the audience earlier I was going to ask you this question. I heard my pal Mark Halperin on Next Up with Mark Halperin on the MK Media Podcast Network talking this morning about the latest Fox News poll that shows only 15, 1.5 percent of the American population says that their financial situation has improved as a result of Trump. And he said if the numbers stay like this on Trump's economic approval, it's going to be a bloodbath in November. That not only could Republicans, they will lose the House, but they could lose the Senate too. So your thoughts on how Trump turns that around?

59:31Jack Posobiec:Well, no president has ever been as wonderful as Trump has done overseas. No president has ever been reelected on foreign policy. George H.W. Bush had that fantastic first Gulf War, 1991, four days he destroys Saddam's land army. He's pulling at 90 percent, and he loses to Bill Clinton because Clinton says we're, and we weren't, we were in a mild recession in 92, but he said it's the Great Depression. And for all of that, so if you actually look at the statistics, over four years, Joe Biden averaged 5.2 percent inflation every year. Trump came in, it was 3.0. This month, it was 3.0. They think the economy may grow at 4 % GDP.

1:00:19Jack Posobiec:He came in at 2%. He's got a very good inflation rate comparative. But what the left is saying is, we were in power for four years, and we raised prices by 21.5%, and you've been in office 10 months, and you haven't reduced them, it's your fault. And he can't get that message out. So what he needs to remember what James Carville, it's the economy is stupid. The Epstein files, all that matters is to try to remind everybody what he's done, what he did in the first term. But more importantly, what he's doing next year, what he's doing right now has long-term implication. I'll just get very quickly.

1:01:04Jack Posobiec:He's already pumping 1 million barrels of oil. We've never pumped more than 14 million. He's going to go to 16. He's never done more natural gas. We are the largest natural gas and oil producer in the world. Second, I don't know if he's out of the deal exaggerating when he says he has$20 trillion in foreign investment. Let's say it's half, 10. Last year, Biden, he had $79 billion. So we've never had that before. We've never had that.

1:01:36Megyn Kelly:You guys know that Trump is using the tariffs to negotiate deals in which these countries, he jacks up the tariffs, then he says, I'll lower them by half, but you have to invest a bunch of money in American manufacturing, create jobs here. So he's gotten somewhere between$10 and $20 trillion of investment in America, whereas Joe Biden never even got$1 trillion.

1:01:54Jack Posobiec:So what I'm getting at is, and then he's going to have this continuation of the big, beautiful tax cut and the deregulation. You deregulate the economy. You give tax cuts. You've got all of this, not just the oil revenue and the export, and he's dealing with the tariff income, as you said, and gas energy prices are already going out. They were$3.48 a gallon during the four years of Biden. They're already at$2.98. Not here, but nationwide. Right. So what I'm getting at is if he can survive and get that message out, and you're going to have a lot of psychological lift with the World Cup and the 250th anniversary, it's going to be a nice year.

1:02:36Jack Posobiec:And I think these things will kick in in June or July, and he'll be fine if they stick to the message. And that is the economy was terrible when we came in. We made it better, and now it's getting good and get the message out.

1:02:53Megyn Kelly:I feel like the message is not Epstein related, but we're in that morass now. So how does that play out? Because the Democrats, they're loving swimming in that pool. They're loving it a little bit less now that Larry Summers has been outed as the chief friend of Jeffrey Epstein. You guys saw this. Former president of Harvard, former treasury secretary under Bill Clinton, also worked for Barack Obama. and the first real name to come out, not as somebody who was like receiving trafficked girls, but who was BFFs with Jeffrey Epstein long past the time when we knew what a disgusting scumbag he was.

1:03:28Megyn Kelly:The Miami Herald piece broke in November of 2018 and he's sending Jeffrey Epstein messages like a small school girl asking for his hair to be braided. Two months later, all the way up to the day before Jeffrey got arrested, now he's stepped down from all of his duties at Harvard, he's not teaching his classes anymore. So we'll see whether the left continues to love the Epstein story as much as they currently do. But how do you see that playing out over the next year or so? I don't know if people were accurate when they said Trump was

1:03:57Jack Posobiec:playing five-dimensional chess or whatever they claimed, but he did have a big noose and they put their neck in it. What I'm in is he communicated with Jeffrey Epstein before he was a convicted sexual assaulter, and then he broke it off before he was convicted. These people, and 80 % of the textual trove has references in a case of political affiliation with Democrats. But most of them, if you look at what the news says, most of them are after he was convicted. So basically they said...

1:04:32Megyn Kelly:And convicted, like he pleaded guilty to solicitation of sex with a minor prostitute, which as you always know, what do I say? That is not a thing. A minor cannot be a prostitute. That's child rape. So he pleaded guilty to that. In 2008, they all knew it. Katie Couric, she knew it. Now she's trying to say, oh, I didn't know when I went to his townhouse for dinner that time. George Stephanopoulos knew. They all knew. They just decided to overlook it because he was rich as F.

1:05:02Jack Posobiec:Yeah, I don't get it. They have control of the files, so-called files for four years under Biden. and they know because they have access to them that most of the people who are mentioned are Democrats, and they know that most of the people who are Democrats who are mentioned are mentioned after they knew that he was a convicted felon, and so they didn't release them. And yet, when Trump comes in, they said, because you don't release them, you must be implicated. When they know after they raided his home, they de-balloted him, They had lawfare. They would do anything to destroy him. So they would have leaked something if there was anything to be leaked.

1:05:43Jack Posobiec:So then what were they thinking? So now Trump has control over them. And all he has to do is say, I really didn't want to release them. And he probably didn't, because there's probably a few Republican grandee donors. So he probably was worried. He was getting calls. Please don't do that. There's not enough context. But that being said, you know what's going to happen, every two weeks or something, a name is going to come out, and it's going to be a Democrat, and it's going to be a Larry Summers or a chief counsel person or somebody, and he's just going to let it keep going. Yes. And I don't know why they walked into this minefield.

1:06:21Megyn Kelly:Think about that. What if this whole story gets turned so that every other week we find out a new Democrat who is in the Epstein files, and we've already heard everything there is to hear about Trump. I mean, think of that, if that's actually how this story lands. These Democrats and the media will run from this story so fast, it'll blow that hat right off your head.

1:06:41Jack Posobiec:Yes, they will. But the only rational explanation is they are so obsessed. We've all tried to figure out why they hate him so much. Maybe it's his queen's accent. Maybe it's his orange color. Maybe it's comb over. I don't know. but maybe he had no political experience, but they are so obsessed with him that they do the, I mean, Jasmine Crockett talking about Lee Zeldin and this other Dr. Epstein. It was amazing. And it's every day. And so their only strategy now is to make these videos with the S word, the F word, the screaming yell, kickbox, say Trump is this and that. And they want us as the American people collectively to get in a fetal position, put our hands over there, just make it go away.

1:07:33Jack Posobiec:I don't care. That's not going to work. That's not happening. But that's their strategy, a total chaos. And then the other thing very quickly is we had a civil war and the civil war was fought over the nullification of federal law and

1:07:52Jack Posobiec:disloyalty of the union, all of a sudden we find out that, you know, the mayor of Chicago says if ICE comes on our territory, we're going to resist them. What does that mean? They're going to pull out guns and they're going to shoot each other north and south. Nancy Pelosi says we're going to arrest a, she's never read the constitution. It says federal law is supreme to local and state law in matters of federal jurisdiction. And then we have these 600 jurisdictions that are nullificated. They're like South Carolina in 1850. We're not going to obey federal law. And you can see where this is going.

1:08:25Jack Posobiec:So then now they're issuing a video where they're telling 1.3 million people in the military, if you get an order and you've disguised because you're all legal scholars and you decide that if you don't want to obey it, just don't obey it. So they're basically calling for an insurrection. And then they have all these ex-generals and admirals who in the past have said Donald Trump was a fascist, Muslim. So almost what's eerie is almost every aspect of what caused the Civil War, these very liberal progressive people are emulating as if they're Jeff Davis or, I don't know, Stonewall Jackson. So how does that end?

1:09:04Jack Posobiec:Yes. They're headed toward a situation, if they don't stop, that they're going to have a local and we almost had it in Chicago when they wouldn't come to the help of ICE that was trapped. But when Karen Bass says we're using LA officials to try to thwart ICE and help illegal aliens who are in the street waving the flag of the country under no circumstances they want to return to and burning the flag of the country they want to stay in. That's so true. So well said. I don't get it, but I'm afraid that if somebody doesn't stop it, you're going to get a situation where a local police force on the orders of a blue state mayor is going to say, stop them, and we're going to get a gunfight.

1:09:48Jack Posobiec:And then we're at Fort Sumter territory. And so it's scary. And they've got us, they're really calling for insurrection.

1:09:55Megyn Kelly:And meanwhile, the American people continue to support the deportation of all illegal immigrants in the country right now, all of them, not just the ones who have committed additional crimes. Absolutely. So. All right. So now we need to take a moment to talk about Michelle Obama's hair. I've been told by her many times this is very important. What are you laughing at? Racists We're all racists because she had to iron her hair She talks about it on every tour stop. She's promoting her book. Hold on. I want to see which one it is. Okay There's so many to choose from But here's the latest.

1:10:32Charlie Sheen:This is sought for let's take a look a lot of people want to know what do braids mean? What does she mean look? Y 'all. What does she mean? You know, I mean, that's what white folks are. It's like, what does that mean? What are you saying? We're saying nothing. Let me explain something to white people. Our hair comes out of our head naturally in a curly pattern. So when we're straightening it to follow your beauty standards, we are trapped by the straightness. It is exhausting and it's so expensive and it takes up so much time. Braids are for y 'all so we can work harder and focus on the works.

1:11:17Charlie Sheen:Don't touch it.

1:11:20Megyn Kelly:Just don't. She's sitting there with the straight hair, telling the people not to. Can I just say for the record, it is not just black people who have to deal with their hair a lot in the morning. All right? Now, people, I have something to tell you. This is not all mine. I mentioned it a lot on the show. But if you could see the number of little hell things in there that Sarah's got to deal with every day to try to cover them up so you guys think this looks natural. It is not just a black thing, Michelle. Sorry, Victor. Go ahead.

1:11:55Jack Posobiec:Well, when I get up in the morning... Thank you. When I get up in the morning, I wish I had hair. I wish I had Michelle's hair other than this. But my point is this. I understand that she's insecure and she has four mansions. So when she's talking, I can't figure out whether she flew in from Martha's Vineyard, the Washington Mansion, the Chicago Mansion, or the Beachfront Mansion in Hawaii. And then she says this, and I was listening to the radio when this was on the story the other day. So I walk to my office. The first person I see is a beautiful Asian woman with straight hair. The next person I see is a beautiful Mexican-American woman with straight hair.

1:12:43Jack Posobiec:The third person I meet is a guy that I knew who has very kinky white. He's white and he has curly hair. And I thought, well, white people, although I don't have a monopoly on straight hair. So why are you saying this unless you have some problem? And the problem, I think, is my entire life, whether it was getting into Princeton or Harvard or getting the Niki account or something at my law firm or getting this huge job at the University of Chicago, it was always predicated on I could make white people feel guilty and that I was a victim even though I grew up as middle class and I was given every opportunity.

1:13:25Jack Posobiec:And so when you look at this scenario and you think of just to take an example, Salma, California, East Palestine, Ohio, where you have very poor people who happen to be white. And so what I'm getting at is when we obsess on race and not class, which the Democratic Party does, it's absurd. It's like Mondami saying, I'm going to go after white affluent neighborhoods. And then you say, well, let me do a Google search for two seconds and see which is the most affluent ethnic minority in the United States. Indian Americans. That's right. 40 % more income than the average white family. So the whole racial thing has sort of jumped the shark now.

1:14:09Jack Posobiec:It's just ridiculous.

1:14:10Megyn Kelly:Wait, forgive me, but I do have one more. This one's not about the hair, but this falls into the Stephen L. Miller, the Red Steez on Twitter category of, I regret to inform you, we've disappointed the Obamas again. Here she is. We've got to play it on how confining the damn role of First Lady was. Let's watch. I have an eight year stint as First Lady, uh, tends, tends to confine,

1:14:39Charlie Sheen:to be a bit confining, right? Because, you know, that the role, the job was not to just represent me, but to represent the nation. And as the first black family in that house, just like, you know, black folks feel in all the first positions that we're the, you know, we're carrying the torch, we're lighting the way, which means that we've got to do it really, really well so that the next folks will have a chance. You know, when you're, when you're the only, you know, you feel like if you don't get it right, nobody will ever get this position. Women, people of color, people of different ethnicities, of different genders and sexual orientation.

1:15:26Charlie Sheen:We all feel that.

1:15:29Megyn Kelly:So poor Michelle, it was especially confining for her to be first lady because she's black. Yeah. And I'm sure every other first lady before and after Michelle Obama felt totally free with the role and lifted the dress up and said, hey, take a look at me. They didn't feel confined at all being First Lady of the United States. Just the black one.

1:15:53Jack Posobiec:Michelle, people were so discriminatory against her, they put her on Vogue magazine about four times. And no offense to Michelle, it has nothing to do with race. But Melania, Trump is beautiful. They wouldn't put her on one time. it would be like her saying, well, you know, they hate Eastern Europeans, so I never got on Vogue. It's crazy. And then in 2004, the so-called white vote for John Kerry was less than the white vote for Barack Obama four years later. In other words, Barack Obama won, and he beat John McCain not because of the black vote. It was a sure thing, 96 percent, is because a huge number of white people decided to vote for him, a black man, more than they did the prior white Democratic candidate.

1:16:44Jack Posobiec:Notwithstanding Michelle's hair. That doesn't happen in a racist society. It's amazing. It doesn't.

1:16:49Megyn Kelly:Honestly, though, have you ever seen a first lady in particular who is so racist? She hates white people. Her image of white people is the most negative, judgmental, nasty thing I've ever heard. She thinks all we do is look at black people with negative judgments about their hair and their dress and the way they behave. Meanwhile, it's really a case-by-case situation with blacks and whites, and she's failing it.

1:17:15Jack Posobiec:Yeah, I think the problem is that her audience is the same group of white people I see every week at Stanford, but it's not the people at Bakersfield. Amen. Because believe me, if people try that stuff to working class people, whether they're Mexican-American or white or even black, they don't listen to it. They said, you're spoiled, Brad. I don't want to hear it. I got to get up at five. I've got to go to work. I don't get home. I don't have anything. You have four mansions. You're worth a hundred million dollars. You're spoiled, Brad. I don't want to hear it. But not those people.

1:17:51Megyn Kelly:Yes.

1:17:51Jack Posobiec:They hang on every word she says because they're just like her.

1:17:55Megyn Kelly:We're going to do Michelle Obama a favor, and we're going to send that clip to her to make sure she gets a hefty dose of reality before she goes on her next tour stop.

1:18:04Jack Posobiec:Have you ever met Michelle?

1:18:05Megyn Kelly:I met her one time at the White House Christmas party.

1:18:09Jack Posobiec:Yeah. She was perfectly pleasant.

1:18:11Megyn Kelly:She was probably like, why are you looking at my hair like that?

1:18:14Jack Posobiec:Yeah. Victor, love you.

1:18:18Megyn Kelly:Thank you so much for all of your pulls of wisdom. It's a pleasure. VDH! He's a treasure.

1:18:36Megyn Kelly:All right, Sarah, how's my hair? Good? Fine. She's dying to come up here and fix it. I guarantee you. It's wonderful to have somebody who's paid actually just to do your hair. It's wonderful. It's like a true gift. I do my own makeup, but Sarah does my hair. I never learned over all the years how to do my hair. You know, you never, like, watch it. And also, if you do watch it, ladies, you know how, like, the brush, the round brush, my God, it's so much work. But the makeup I learned to slap on the face paint by following some twit online. Okay. My next guest is somebody I did not meet up until a couple months ago, but like you, I was a lifelong fan.

1:19:14Megyn Kelly:And I've seen, I think, most of Charlie Sheen's movies, but I've never seen somebody so skilled and so compelling as when I was young and saw Charlie Sheen on screen in Wall Street. He played the simmering, angry, ambitious, tortured soul on Wall Street better than anybody I've seen live it in real life, and I lived in Manhattan for 20 years. And the fact that his dad was involved in the movie too. And that scene in the elevator with the two of them, with the tensions burning, saying all the things, what I would later find out have some parallels to his real life. He told me when we met via satellite for the release of his book and his documentary, that he had fallen to fame so quickly and early on got the same lesson taught to him over and over again, which was, you can get away with anything.

1:20:15Megyn Kelly:With that face and that talent and that personality, we'll overlook anything. And that would wind up being somewhat of a curse for Charlie Sheen, as well as a blessing. He's really profoundly interesting, and he's come a long way through the tiger blood by winning years to really settle in a place of wisdom and reflection. And I think you'll soon hear Republicanism. Check it out. Do doctors have Black Friday sales? Do they? It's a good question. The doctors at Brickhouse Nutrition do. They just announced their Black Friday 30 % off sale. That's their biggest of the year. The most impressive health and nutrition products in the industry are now 30 % off, like Lean, the doctor formulated weight loss supplement for people who want to lose meaningful weight without injections.

1:21:11Megyn Kelly:And 30 % off Creatone, creatine designed just for women to help you look leaner in shape and toned without extra dieting or exercise. Even 30 % off Field of Greens, a super fruit and vegetable drink they say was shown in a university study to actually slow aging. Yes, every Brickhouse product from Better Sleep to superior collagen is 30 % off. But hurry, because these Black Friday deals go fast. Visit BrickHouseSale.com and save 30%. That's BrickHouseSale.com. One more time, BrickHouseSale.com. As President Trump is settling into his new administration, one of the top Democrats in Congress aiming to undermine the Trump agenda is Senator Dick Durbin.

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1:22:33Megyn Kelly:We are going on the road. Join me live. Megyn Kelly Live. Ten stops across the country. Join me for no BS, no agenda, and no fear live. I'll be joined by Tucker Carlson, Ben Shapiro, Glenn Beck, Adam Harola, Charlie Sheen, Piers Morgan, Donald Trump Jr., Eric Trump, and Erica Kirk. Send a message that we will not be silenced. It's Megyn Kelly Live presented by Y Refi and SiriusXM. Go to megankelly.com to get your tickets now. You can stream The Megan Kelly Show on SiriusXM at home or anywhere you are. No car required. I do it all the time. I love the SiriusXM app. It has ad-free music coverage of every major sport, comedy talk, podcast, and more.

1:23:18Megyn Kelly:Subscribe now. Get your first three months for free.

1:23:20Charlie Sheen:Go to siriusxm.com slash mkshow to subscribe and get three months free. That's SiriusXM.com slash MKShow. And get three months free. Offer details apply.

1:23:56Victor Davis Hanson:I was Martin Sheen's son and Emilio Estavis' brother. What do you care if your brother ditches school? This cameo just falls out of the sky into my lap. I think I made a big mistake coming here.

1:24:09Megyn Kelly:Films like Platoon, Wall Street, and The Rookie. You want a do-over?

1:24:14Charlie Sheen:No, I don't want a do-over.

1:24:16Megyn Kelly:The highest paid actor in television history as a star on the beloved sitcom Two and a Half Men. Men, men, men, men, men. But all of that success came with challenges.

1:24:26Victor Davis Hanson:addiction you know i got soccer blood man you don't worry that you're gonna die when you take that many drugs dying fools drugs are undefeated it's like 20 million to zero he started experimenting with um everything to get through that you know several times if this is prison the only thing

1:24:46Megyn Kelly:that's missing it's the bars and the guards now charlie sheen is eight years sober and back to to tell his story his own way. Oh, we're ready to go? You've already proven you can do all this shit to your body and still stay standing.

1:25:00Victor Davis Hanson:I'm the guy that lived it and survived it, and I still don't completely know how.

1:25:08Megyn Kelly:Please help me welcome Charlie Sheen.

1:25:22Victor Davis Hanson:Thank you. Thank you.

1:25:24Megyn Kelly:The one and only.

1:25:26Victor Davis Hanson:Is this on?

1:25:27Megyn Kelly:Yeah, it's on. Very good.

1:25:30Victor Davis Hanson:Thank you.

1:25:31Megyn Kelly:It's so great to have you.

1:25:36Megyn Kelly:How does it feel to be back out here in front of the masses and feel all the love?

1:25:50Megyn Kelly:It's got to be better than crack cocaine.

1:25:52Victor Davis Hanson:It's a different kind of better than crack cocaine. No, it feels fucking awesome. And wow. Thank you. Thank you.

1:26:09Megyn Kelly:We were talking backstage. We're both getting older. I just had a birthday. You got a few years on me. Turned 60.

1:26:19Victor Davis Hanson:I turned 60. Yeah.

1:26:21Megyn Kelly:At 60, where are you? Happy? Well? Struggling? Working on it? Where?

1:26:31Victor Davis Hanson:Yeah, that just described an entire week, pretty much. Monday? No, I think I'm happy most of the time. You know, I think I'm not looking for like, you know, insane events or circumstance to generate happiness. I think I'm finding, and you know, when I say happy, it's like, I'm not like walking around like, you know, cackling with laughter. That's not normal. I'm sorry?

1:27:10Megyn Kelly:That's not normal. I never trust the people who are like that.

1:27:12Victor Davis Hanson:Yeah, no, and I don't have a perma-smile.

1:27:15Megyn Kelly:Yeah.

1:27:15Victor Davis Hanson:You can't trust those people.

1:27:17Megyn Kelly:No, it reminds me of my time on the Today Show. Very jarring, very fake. Those are not happy or good people.

1:27:24Victor Davis Hanson:But it's the littler things that start to matter a lot more, you know, as I go further down the road on the journey. But the 60 thing was, it was messing with my head. Why? Because it was like, shit, man, I spent most of my 50s apologizing to people. And that's fine, because I needed basically a decade to get through all of those apologies. and it was also part of the reason that really drove me to find the passion to do the book, to do the doc and really create a moment not really so much of a comeback and I think we spoke about this the last time but just more of a reset and I wanted to just put all that shit behind me, but do it properly and do it in a way that was honest and noble and thorough.

1:28:34Victor Davis Hanson:Yep. And, oh, thank you. Thank you. I mean, it was thorough,

1:28:38Megyn Kelly:all right. It was really thorough. You did lay it all out there. Very bare. We talked about it when you came on, but there was the incident which you've since clarified a little of the crossover tour when it comes to the sexuality. It wasn't like the full crossover. It was more like playing in the sandbox as opposed to like rolling around in the sand, rolling over in the sand. Do you follow?

1:29:04Victor Davis Hanson:So the sandbox, not like an entire beach. Right, right, right.

1:29:08Megyn Kelly:Got it.

1:29:09Victor Davis Hanson:Got it. Not like my own tropical island. Yes.

1:29:13Megyn Kelly:So does that make it hard for you now? Like you've come out with that, that happened, which probably isn't that unusual for people who are super famous and super rich and have had a drug thing.

1:29:22Victor Davis Hanson:If that wasn't a part of my story with how far I took it and the amount of cocaine I ingested in any means available, if that wasn't part of my story, I think people would be like, hey, wait a minute. we've you know in other I can't say similar stories but other examples that's usually been one of one of the consistent ingredients in that recipe.

1:29:58Megyn Kelly:Well last time we were together I asked you whether you're getting hit on non-stop now by gay men and the answer was yes. They're all like I got a shot but I forgot to ask you whether

1:30:08Victor Davis Hanson:that was a funny moment in the interview, because that came early. That was like in the first five minutes, right? Yeah, yeah. And that told me like, okay, all right, this is cool. It's on. We're going there. We're fucking doing this, yeah. And I'm like, well, why the hell not? And I'm sorry I cut you off.

1:30:28Megyn Kelly:No, no, no. But I forgot to ask you the other half of that, which is, you know, we saw Sean Penn in the clip. Sure. Nick Cage was one of your best friends. Did those guys come back to you and say, could you clarify that it was not your best friends who did the tour with you?

1:30:44Victor Davis Hanson:Oh, oh. Yeah, no, no, no, no. It's nobody anybody recognizes. Yeah, Jesus, man. No. All of your favorite, most of them, TV and film stars that I know are off the hook. so yeah I'll just own it but another thing that we did discuss was that I knew for so long how it felt to keep all that shit in and also a lot of the consequences that it brought or the target I still presented myself as to some very nefarious types

1:31:32Megyn Kelly:Like you were actually being blackmailed.

1:31:34Victor Davis Hanson:I was being blackmailed, being extorted, shaken down. Yeah, and so there was a strategic opponent to unloading a lot of this to where I just wanted to be unexortable. You know, I think I... Thank you. Yeah, free. Thank you. And thank you. And Megan, I thought it would be a much bigger price to pay than what it's revealed itself to be. Wow. And that's like, that's so encouraging because that's really a leap of faith. That's like saying, all right, you know, I'm going to talk about all this stuff and, you know, I don't… Will you still love me? Yeah. Will you still love me? Yeah.

1:32:25Megyn Kelly:They do. I mean, those kinds of things can really restore your faith in humanity. Right? Like, you could have named your book, This Is Me Now, and I think people would have received it just the same. Like, I think people are mature enough, and even this is like a right-leaning audience, a lot of people of faith. Sure. You know, they may not love all the drugs and the crossover tour, though I think we're fine with that now. We're kind of fine with that. Yeah, we're evolved. But I think they understand and love redemption.

1:32:55Victor Davis Hanson:Right on. Right on. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

1:33:02Megyn Kelly:But before we get to the redemption, just go back a little. Okay. We're going to skip all the fun stuff. Good. So it seems to me in watching the doc and reading the book that the craziest pal you had was Nicolas Cage. Am I wrong?

1:33:16Victor Davis Hanson:You are not wrong. Different kind of crazy. Go on. Other, like, extra-galactically so. Oh. But with a wisdom and a sense of humor and a devil-may-care just air about him that was just, it was like poetic lava. Wow. I think he would appreciate being described as poetic lava. Yes, who wouldn't? Yeah, because lava, you know, you see it coming, you can get away, right? It moves pretty slow, but God, it burns everything to the ground. And you sure as heck don't forget that it was there. You know, even decades later. What am I even talking about? No, we're following. What am I talking about? I'm talking about Nick Cage.

1:34:19Megyn Kelly:Yes, we're still on Nick. Can you bring us aboard the airplane with the walkie-talkie thing that the pilot...

1:34:27Victor Davis Hanson:Oh, with the intercom? Yeah, can we talk about how the hell that happened? It started out just as a friendly game, like a performance exercise game interaction with just the rest of the plane. And because there was still, you know, the curtain that separates the front from the back, you know? and so we've been up for a few days at that point and just kind of made the decision we're going to Vegas and I buy this like$9 Dick Tracy hat in the airport and so there's five of us that's how we became the Jackson 5 I mean right and that wasn't about music like that was just about numbers because five um and so so no we're on the plane and so we were kind of using that curtain to do like a 10 second bit and just try to get a reaction loving this

1:35:37Megyn Kelly:it's charlie sheen and nick cage and others yeah and then we're notable yes and you're just entertaining the plane can you imagine this but it was but it was all in just fun you know

1:35:47Victor Davis Hanson:friendly spirit and and um you know eddie would point out you know uh the grand canyon on the left side of the airplane and uh the eiffel tower on the right i mean it was just silly you know so that's not in las vegas what's that that's not in las vegas it's really not well there's a there's a little version of it right there is yeah yeah but things like that and so um nick went last. And I don't know if he just didn't understand the theme of what we were going for. Light-hearted fun. Yeah. He took it to a place where he grabbed the intercom and he says, ladies and gentlemen, this is your captain speaking.

1:36:43Victor Davis Hanson:I'm not feeling well. And you can hear the plane just kind of get whisper quiet, right? And people are kind of looking at each other. Is this really the captain? And he says, and I feel like I'm losing control of the airplane. And now, you know, whatever level of high or drunkenness or any of us were, we suddenly were laser focused on the amount of the shit that we were in because of that. And he didn't even do the bit at the curtain.

1:37:23Megyn Kelly:Oh, so they were buying it that it actually might be.

1:37:26Victor Davis Hanson:They didn't see him doing it. That's thinking back. I think that was part of it. That's where we went wrong. Yes. Yeah, because had he done that holding the mic, it's in poor taste, but they know it's a performance piece.

1:37:43Megyn Kelly:Maybe in bounds.

1:37:44Victor Davis Hanson:Yeah, but all they did was hear it. And you could see the flight crew launch into panic mode, and one of the stewards walked right up to Nick, and he just goes, not cool, buddy, not cool. Yeah, and then Nick didn't, I think I talk about this in the doc, right? And in the book, Nick didn't know that I was basically the dope mule for that trip for the Jackson 5.

1:38:20Megyn Kelly:Really did not want to get pulled over by the cops.

1:38:23Victor Davis Hanson:No, no. And I was rolling with such a fat bag of cocaine that it wouldn't fit in any of my pockets, right? So I taped it to the inside of my thigh and tried to wear a baggier pant. And so I'm like, you know, like right in my crotch. Oh, God. I'm rolling with like five to ten for distribution. and so when we landed we were met with the feds with local authorities with just a bunch of frowns and ire and yeah it was luckily though this is that thing that you talked about, about consequences to a point

1:39:20Megyn Kelly:yes because they're like this is such bullshit this can never oh, hello Mr. Sheen hello Mr. Cage and the turn of fortune comes to save you again

1:39:32Victor Davis Hanson:or did it

1:39:34Megyn Kelly:you know like if you had just gotten in like serious trouble early on I don't know would you have gone through everything you went through if

1:39:46Victor Davis Hanson:if the middle word in life right yeah probably

1:39:53Megyn Kelly:probably you were resilient

1:39:55Victor Davis Hanson:I think so.

1:39:57Megyn Kelly:You were really committed. Can we spend a minute talking about the prostitutes? Because you... Wow. You have this iconic line about calling up a prostitute. And I confess, my husband Doug is the one who told me about it, and I love it. It's very funny. When somebody asked you, you know, you're Charlie Sheen. Why would you feel the need to pay for sex? And do you remember what you said? I do.

1:40:30Victor Davis Hanson:And what I should have said... No, that's a terrible response. I'm not even going to... No, I'm going to let that one just keep drifting away. I said I'm not paying them to show up. Is that what I said? I'm paying them to leave. Right? Not paying for the sex. That's crass. That is crass. and disrespectful.

1:40:56Megyn Kelly:But illuminating for those of us not in the trade.

1:41:01Victor Davis Hanson:The trade. Amazing. No, but I wish I could claim ownership of that quote because that was borrowed. Oh, from whom? I've heard different versions of it as far as the genesis of it. I'm pretty sure it's a Cary Grant quote.

1:41:25Megyn Kelly:Oh, oh. Yeah. It's probably one of those quotes that nobody really wants the credit for. Right. Yeah, so I see your point. Now, because we eventually kind of went, we went, we did the prostitute circuit, and then there was a pornography, like a porn actress, and we don't even mean a Kardashian, like actual. So, oh, you know it, and I know it. She's famous because of that sex tape, and it's never going to happen on the bar exam.

1:41:57Victor Davis Hanson:I've never seen that tape.

1:41:59Megyn Kelly:Kim Kardashian. I've never seen that tape. Oh, you've never seen that. But I know what it is. Have you guys seen the Kim Kardashian sex tape?

1:42:06Victor Davis Hanson:Everybody's like, ew.

1:42:08Megyn Kelly:What do I say? There's no proper answer to that. So when you think about that stint, because you kind of graduated, I mean, by today's standards, that's all tame, by the way. You know, like what these young men are into on the internet today is like that blows doors on any of that stuff. Wow. Like, how do you see that? Because you also had real love in your life. You had three marriages. I had three marriages. Three marriages. Denise and you seem to really love each other. Denise Richards, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. And so like you kind of had two lanes of like real love and a real partner and mothers to your children.

1:42:40Megyn Kelly:And then you had this other low lane.

1:42:42Victor Davis Hanson:Sure.

1:42:43Megyn Kelly:So when you think on like the love and the sexual experiences of your life, do they seem dramatically far apart? like there were the women I loved and then there was this other like really unfortunate thing or how do you see it? I mean,

1:43:02Victor Davis Hanson:I mean, yeah, I don't know if I can add to that. No, no, I will. I, I was never a cheater. Like I I never strayed from any moment that I was actually married.

1:43:20Megyn Kelly:That's awesome.

1:43:21Victor Davis Hanson:Thank you. Thank you.

1:43:22Megyn Kelly:Especially while on drugs and all that. That says something about your character. Thank you.

1:43:26Victor Davis Hanson:Yeah. So I didn't, I mean, during the legal separations, that was, then I knew I was kind of off the hook with that whole vow thing, right?

1:43:39Megyn Kelly:Right. You were on a break.

1:43:40Victor Davis Hanson:Yes. No, and I went into those marriages with the best intentions and the best hope for some kind of a future together. But the other thing, at the time, I mean, I was younger and a lot of different other things going on. It was more exciting. It was more exciting. I don't know that I can present it any more insightful than that or like drill down to the core issue behind it or what it might be connected to. It was the thrill of, you know, at times, sometimes not knowing if I was going to open the door to a lovely gal or to cops.

1:44:37Megyn Kelly:Okay.

1:44:37Victor Davis Hanson:You know what I'm saying? I don't, but it sounds fascinating. That roll of the dice. Sorry, yeah.

1:44:43Megyn Kelly:Well, I feel like, because I know, are you dating Dolly again? Is this true? No. No, not dating Dolly. If you guys read the book, Dolly is the young woman he was dating when he went to visit then-Governor Bill Clinton in the Arkansas Statehouse. And what did Bill Clinton do?

1:45:04Victor Davis Hanson:he took one look at her and whispered to an aide find out what you can about the brunette like zeroed in on it you know and it was kind of like not cool but he like we have the same taste I don't fucking know it was kind of flattering for her not cool to me you know it's a weird place to be, you know?

1:45:33Megyn Kelly:Did you ever feel that special something looking at Hillary?

1:45:42Megyn Kelly:Nothing, huh?

1:45:47Victor Davis Hanson:I told no one, find out what you can.

1:45:59Megyn Kelly:It's a no.

1:46:00Victor Davis Hanson:about the blonde. Well, the reason I ask

1:46:07Megyn Kelly:is because I read that you and Dolly had either renewed your friendship or possibly your relationship today. Right. And I thought it would be very hard to be your partner in today's day and age given the history. I feel like the performance bar would be very high. Right? Like, ladies, you know what I'm saying? I'd be, like, Googling the videos to be like, what's my next move? I don't, like...

1:46:36Victor Davis Hanson:Oh, gosh. Wow. I mean, wouldn't the bar be high for me also?

1:46:44Megyn Kelly:I don't. I think for women, they just want somebody who will listen to them. Okay. I'm not sure the bar is particularly high for...

1:46:51Victor Davis Hanson:I'm a pretty good listener. There you go. Yeah. Yeah. No, Dolly and I reconnected because she read the book and thought it was fabulous and was really flattered and really touched by how, you know, the stories that I told about us in the book and how I told them. And in fact, there were a couple things I thought she was going to be upset with, and she wasn't. She was just so excited to be a part of it, you know, and I was like, how could you not have been a part of it? And then we just reconnected and then just as old lovers but new friends.

1:47:37Megyn Kelly:Yeah. I mean, that's got potential, Charlie. I don't know.

1:47:40Victor Davis Hanson:That's the title of my next book?

1:47:42Megyn Kelly:Yeah. Old lovers, new friends?

1:47:44Victor Davis Hanson:That sucks.

1:47:46Megyn Kelly:I'm not buying that book. It definitely does not suck as a life theme. I don't know. We'll get back to it. He'll get back to us on Dolly at our next tour and see how that goes. Or on somebody, because I feel like that's the next step for you now that you're you've been in recovery for eight years, your kids are getting older, your life is back on track. Thank you.

1:48:03Victor Davis Hanson:I don't know.

1:48:04Megyn Kelly:I'd love to see you well settled.

1:48:06Victor Davis Hanson:Yeah, no, I thank you. I would like to see me settled too. But there's no, I haven't been in a relationship for a long time.

1:48:17Megyn Kelly:Yeah.

1:48:18Victor Davis Hanson:Not since like 2018.

1:48:20Megyn Kelly:I mean, So Denise is in the news a lot, your ex-wife. She is, yeah. She moved on and got remarried, and she's the mother of two of your kids, your two daughters. Do you guys still maintain a relationship? Are you still friends? Oh, of course. Oh, that's good.

1:48:35Victor Davis Hanson:Oh, yeah. Yeah, no, she's, you know, thank you. You know, it started out hot and heavy, and then a bunch of shit happened, and then it got, you know, just kind of icky and whatever. but today it's just like we don't really we don't really care about any of that other shit because it's not who we are today you know and I feel terrible what she's going through with with the current divorce stuff it's just like whoa

1:49:05Megyn Kelly:for those of you not paying attention she was on Real Housewives she married another man she has alleged that he has been physically abusive to her he has denied it he accuses her of being a hoarder it's gotten very, very ugly between the two of them. I know her just a little, and she seems like such a sweet gal, I have to say. I've only been really favorably impressed by her, but of course I wasn't married to her.

1:49:29Victor Davis Hanson:No, she is. She's a Midwestern girl. We're raised in a Christian household. So are you. This is true. This is true.

1:49:46Megyn Kelly:Martin Sheen is a devout Catholic.

1:49:48Victor Davis Hanson:Yeah, or as I call him in the book, a cathaholic.

1:49:52Megyn Kelly:Yeah. So what, like, apple tree. Like, what happened there?

1:50:01Victor Davis Hanson:Oh, the distance from it?

1:50:03Megyn Kelly:Yeah.

1:50:04Victor Davis Hanson:Malibu, China? Yeah.

1:50:08Megyn Kelly:Because he was an actor, is an actor, but he was in the business. He had all the same temptations and really, really, really tried to help shepherd you back onto the good path. Sure. But did the Catholicism not really speak to you, or what happened with you when it comes to faith and religion?

1:50:26Victor Davis Hanson:I don't reject any religion, per se. I just, I, you know, there's just some days when, you know, I spend more time looking up, curiously. I spend more time looking up these days than I do looking down. Does that make sense?

1:50:51Megyn Kelly:Yes, thank God.

1:50:52Victor Davis Hanson:Yeah. And people are like, well, do you believe in God? And I'm like, well, yeah, the things I believe in, I don't have a better word to attach to those feelings and those beliefs and just that hope. I don't have a better word than God. You know, I'm not, you know, Mother Universe. I can't do that stuff, you know. So, yeah, but that's just the part that I've kind of never, it's not like I don't want to talk about that. I just never really explored it. But I can say I've been very close to it for a very long time. It's like something kept my heart beating.

1:51:38Megyn Kelly:Yes, that's what I was going to say. Something kept my heart beating. There's no way you came through that on your own. It's like, thank you.

1:51:44Victor Davis Hanson:I don't run any part of this show. You know what I'm saying? This particular show? No, no, no. Just the overall scheme of life. I went too far. I don't run any part of my journey other than the stuff that I navigate that's right in front of me, other than the stuff that's actually tangible and requires my involvement and attention and input. You know what I'm saying? Just as far as the bigger picture, I don't really... I'm sure there were times when I thought I was in control of much bigger things, but nope. You've been humbled. No.

1:52:22Megyn Kelly:So your dad is very outspoken about his politics.

1:52:25Victor Davis Hanson:He is.

1:52:26Megyn Kelly:Not a Trump fan.

1:52:27Victor Davis Hanson:No, but his timing on that thing was really shitty, man. And I told him so, but then I had to take a step back, and we'd just gone through that whole thing with Kimmel, with the freedom of speech, right? And so I was like, yeah, yeah, okay, no, own that. You know, because it's the unpleasant things that we have to grant freedom to as well, right? Unless they're threats or like that. But I was like, Dad, the timing. The timing, man. You got to read the room, you know? Right. Because he brokers the peace deal and the entire universe is celebrating and Dad's with Nicole Wallace. Ugh. Yeah, and I was like...

1:53:14Victor Davis Hanson:Just threw up in my mouth a little. Again, though. Again. You know what I'm saying? free to express how he felt, but he could have done that like on Wednesday. Right.

1:53:27Megyn Kelly:Not when we just created peace in the Middle East. So how about you?

1:53:32Victor Davis Hanson:Just that. Just that.

1:53:35Megyn Kelly:Are you getting more comfortable with your politics and expressing them?

1:53:40Victor Davis Hanson:I am. And I think I talked to you about this early on. And it just, I had to feel something different because, you know, I think we all, or a lot of us, remain beholden to the structure, you know, the structure of the house that we were raised in, with politics, with religion, with the arts, with culture. It's just that, you know, those are our early influences. And so that's just all I knew growing up, you know? And it was like the good guys and the bad guys. And yeah, okay, for a while. But then, you know, I've paid the most taxes of anybody in my fucking family. That'll do it. Yeah.

1:54:41Victor Davis Hanson:What I couldn't do, because I was about to do the doc and start the book, while at the same time, you know, trying to bring an NA beer to the public, you know, with Wild AF. And we have, it's currently shipping. Nice. So I said, there's no way I can tackle any of this with the kind of just focus and motivation, determination, if I feel like I did during Trump's first term, right? And I thought, okay, okay, how do I not feel? Because I was not going to go to bed every night feeling fucking hopeless. I was not going to go to bed every night being told things were, you know, the catastrophic. Catastrophic.

1:55:35Victor Davis Hanson:Yeah. The end is nigh. And I thought, all right, I'm going to I'm going to conduct an experiment. Literally, I'm I'm going to change the channel. I'm going to do my own research like I've done with everything my entire life. I'm going to listen to other voices. Thank you. I'm going to I'm going to explore. I'm going to explore just

1:56:04Victor Davis Hanson:Just hearing both sides of the goddamn story, you know, because what I was, you know, so hypnotized by in some ways can be described as state-run media. I'm sorry, but it can. Legacy media is very much like that. And I said, okay, all right, enough of that. Enough of that. I'm going to change the channel, hear some different voices, and do the research. and the things that I discovered and the things that I started to really unearth, you know, it was not just one of those moments. It was like months of those moments of, oh, my gosh.

1:56:47Megyn Kelly:Yeah.

1:56:48Victor Davis Hanson:And I felt really stupid. I don't have a fancier way to describe it. I felt really stupid.

1:56:54Megyn Kelly:Yeah.

1:56:54Victor Davis Hanson:Just some of the stuff I'd bought into and some of the stuff I was worshiping and some of the people I was hating because I was told I was supposed to hate them. You know? Yeah, we've been there. And I'm just like, this doesn't... And I wanted to feel better for my health, for my mental health, for my physical health, just for my ability to, you know, interact with my kids, you know, in a healthier capacity, right? And so I was like, yeah. all right, fuck it. I'm going to root for this. I'm going to see how that feels, right?

1:57:33Megyn Kelly:Yes. And so when you walked into the ballot box and voted for Trump, how did that feel?

1:57:38Victor Davis Hanson:Well, you see, that's a detail.

1:57:45Victor Davis Hanson:You know, that's another one of those examples where you feel stupid, you know? No, I was still kind of still in that other side of the thing. You weren't there yet. Yeah. But, you know, It's a vote I'd like to have back, but that's all right.

1:57:59Megyn Kelly:Did you actually vote for Kamala Harris? Oh, my God. And that was in your sober period.

1:58:09Victor Davis Hanson:Yeah, I know. I know. I know. We forgive you. Thank you. No, there was, again, it's the things you're paying attention to and the people that you respect that you're listening to, and it all kind of turns into this thing.

1:58:26Megyn Kelly:Is this risky for you at all? Of course it is. Right, because you're a very famous actor. But to get more roles, I think generally you have to be a Democrat.

1:58:39Victor Davis Hanson:If that's the case, I hope this beer is a giant success.

1:58:50Charlie Sheen:Yes.

1:58:51Victor Davis Hanson:No, I don't think that that represents any freedom of expression or freedom of choice or freedom of sanity. Freedom of sanity. How about that? No, I, you know, and of course, you know, some of the stuff you were talking about earlier about, God, this brilliant thing that you discussed about during the run-up, during the campaign, during all this, it felt so much more exciting. But I think things are still going to be okay. I really do. I really do. Because... Yeah, why? Because as long as they never look anything like that dumpster fire that I was finally able to kind of, you know, push back down the alley.

1:59:51Victor Davis Hanson:As long as they don't look like that, I'm hopeful. Wait, what do you mean?

1:59:56Megyn Kelly:I'm not following. Are you talking about your own life experience here or are you talking about Kamala Harris?

2:00:00Victor Davis Hanson:I'm talking about the party that I'm not, that I had to, I had to part ways with. Yeah. I had to. I mean, no, but Megan, I stuck it out as long as I possibly could. Yes. But, you know, now I don't have, you know, a brain full of cocaine and a bedroom full of prostitutes.

2:00:27Megyn Kelly:You see things much more clearly now.

2:00:29Victor Davis Hanson:Yes.

2:00:30Megyn Kelly:Welcome to the party.

2:00:31Victor Davis Hanson:Thank you. Thank you.

2:00:34Megyn Kelly:The party of sanity.

2:00:35Victor Davis Hanson:But that said, it's still interesting to now see some of the stuff that's going on that I think a lot of us are concerned with. Like what? What's bothering you? Like a lot of the infighting. Like a lot of the stuff that just doesn't feel unifying in a time when there's so much at stake. There is so much at stake.

2:01:01Megyn Kelly:I know. I feel it too. And I get drawn into it. And then I try to step back from it. And I get mad. I have fights with people on Twitter. Half the time I'm just like, I'm fighting because I feel like they think I won't fight. So I fight because I want to remind them that they can't push me around. Right.

2:01:17Victor Davis Hanson:Yes.

2:01:17Megyn Kelly:Then the other half I say nothing because I always, what I've learned at age 55 is finally I will decide when I'm in a fight. I will decide when I'm in a fight. How about that? The left wing media, the dishonest smear merchants will not decide when I am in a fight or a controversy. I will decide.

2:01:33Victor Davis Hanson:I love that. I love that.

2:01:38Megyn Kelly:So, what about acting again? Because I think we'd love to see you in a major role. Oh, that's so cool.

2:01:44Victor Davis Hanson:Thank you.

2:01:46Megyn Kelly:Do you feel ready for that?

2:01:47Victor Davis Hanson:Oh, absolutely. Because what I've kind of been sharing with people is all this attention and all this love and welcome back to life, man. Just open arms everywhere. and I haven't even still yet done my job, like the thing I'm known for. I haven't even done that yet. And the response I'm getting is incredible.

2:02:18Megyn Kelly:Well, this is a function of being rich, right? I think most people would have had to go back out and work already, but you must still have a lot of the money that you earn, no?

2:02:35Victor Davis Hanson:How much time do we have tonight? No, I don't... I'm very fortunate, and I remind myself of that every day. Maybe I'm not living where I think I deserve to be living or have the things I think I deserve. No, but I have nothing to complain about. I just have to remind myself of that. I have no food insecurity. I have no shelter and security. You know, I don't, and yeah, and that's the reason why I don't offer my opinion about things that affect people in that way. Yeah. Because my opinion is useless in those scenarios.

2:03:19Megyn Kelly:I have to say, though, as much as I think we'd all love to see you on the big screen or the little screen, no one wants that to come at the expense of your sobriety. And, right? We don't yeah, no, of course not no

2:03:34Victor Davis Hanson:Thank you No, and I know it was only a couple of months ago, but you like very lovingly and and and and compassion Really touched me when you when you're your closing message in our Satellite session together Was don't die.

2:03:53Megyn Kelly:Yeah, so no truly I don't I do not want it was him to be the next Matthew Perry and for me to be doing the show and to say we knew him and we loved him and we had such hope for him and adored him and we lost him to a fucking drug. We don't want that. It was awful. Don't let that happen.

2:04:11Victor Davis Hanson:And what I was going to say is I know it's only been a couple of months but so far, kept my word.

2:04:16Megyn Kelly:Yes, I believe in you. We all believe in you.

2:04:21Victor Davis Hanson:But I definitely, I want to be back on television. I want to be back on the big screen. I want to be back in people's living rooms. I want to be just engaged in that thing again because I'm at a place where it's going to matter to me for different reasons, and this time for all the right reasons.

2:04:44Megyn Kelly:Yes.

2:04:45Victor Davis Hanson:You know?

2:04:46Megyn Kelly:I don't know, Charlie. I feel like you need it, and we need it too. Oh, right on. I think it's the final piece of the redemption arc. that plus the lady plus voting for J.D. Vance and then we can put a bow on it right? I think we're good to go. But listen we're rooting for you, we love you and we're really grateful to you. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me I'm honored. Best of luck with everything Thank you Oh my pleasure Charlie Sheen everybody

2:05:17Victor Davis Hanson:Thank you very much Thank you Thank you.

2:05:22Megyn Kelly:Don't you love him? And I love you so much. We'll talk to you tomorrow on the show. We'll talk to you on Monday. Please stay in touch and keep listening. Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.