Glenn Greenwald and Emily Jashinsky - "Megyn Kelly Live" from San Antonio, on No Team Jerseys, Israel, and the Left's Obsession with Race | Ep. 1180

24:08Yeah, go ahead. We've got time for like maybe two more. Hi, Megan. I'm so excited to have you here. I listen to you every morning at 5 a.m. on my way to the gym. Thank you very much. I really appreciate your perspective, your no BS perspective that you provide. So I'm curious, what's your strategy for maintaining credibility in an era of media mistrust? And how does being named one of times 100 most influential people shape your sense of responsibility in that effort? Oh, well, I guess I'll take them in reverse order. Not at all. And my approach to, you know, the news and facts and my credibility are, they're everything.

24:55Like, I think if there's one thing I'm known for, it's being hyperfactual. Like, I do believe people understand facts are first with me, and then we can talk about my opinions and your opinions and other people's opinions, but I consider it a cardinal sin to get the facts wrong on my newscast. Either my actual show or my morning show now, the AM update, it's a true cardinal sin to get the facts wrong, because I respect you too much. And I also think, like, I was talking about you guys being news consumers and how that does require some sharp elbows. It's not just, you're not just any news consumers, but if I may, you've tuned into this show, which means you don't just want the sweet nothings whispered in your ears.

25:34You would go someplace else if that's what you wanted. You must be in the market for true hard facts and some opinion too. And that's, so that's what I feel I owe you. And how do I do it? With a lot of help. It takes a lot of effort in today's day and age to cut through all the BS and all the spin and figure out what is real. Every single story is so hard to figure out what is real. And I know you must feel that as news consumers. I feel it as a news producer. producer and reporter, but it's doable. It's doable. And so, you know, I think in today's day and age, you need to find a provider, a news provider or two or three and put your trust in them to go through.

26:10You have a busy life. You guys have things that you need to do. You don't need to do news 24 seven. We're doing that for you, but make sure you choose well, because if you don't choose well, you walk around thinking Russia, Russia, Russia is real. The Steele dossier is absolutely horrible and that no one's ever renovated the White House before. Right? So be careful. Thank you. Yeah, we'll do one more. Sorry to the people standing in the line. Yeah. Love you. Hi, Megan. My name is Millie. And recently I received an injury from a male competing in my sport. It was a coach at my high school, and I received a minor concussion.

26:54I got hit in the head, and I was wondering how I can help keep my voice strong about wanting to protect my rights as a young female athlete. Oh, I'm so sorry that happened to you. That's horrifying. Thank you for standing up and asking the question. So first of all, you have the advantage, and it's a big advantage of living in Texas. God bless Texas. Look at all these people. They'll all have your back. Like, if this is your community, you're already ahead of the game because they're going to have your back. These guys are not going to tolerate that bullshit. But you, you have an opportunity to sit in the front row of your life and in terms you might understand down here, take the bull by the horns and you handle it.

27:38And I'll give you this example. So we have three kids, as I mentioned. And of course, I could go in and I could fight every battle for them. Doug, my husband, could go in and fight all the battles for them. But it's much more useful if we tell them, good luck with it. And we don't even give them advice. Just like, what do you think? How are you going to do it? Then if they ask us, what would you think about this? We'll give them the advice. But they have to fight the battle. Because we're not going to be with them forever. Soon they're going to leave the house. They're going to go to college. They need the skills.

28:07It's fine to have me as their mom, but I'm not going to go with them to college. I've tried, but they've told me they don't want me. So you should take this opportunity, which is a big challenge, to start developing yourself. It's a gift that you've been given. So how will you handle it? Will you go to your principal and say, here is why I object to this? Will you go to the coach and say, here is why I am not going to play when you are out there anymore? and see it as an opportunity for growth for you, right? Because they don't come along that often. And truly, the difference between somebody who is sort of ordinary and someone who is extraordinary is they've had the gift of something really tough coming their way, and they've handled it.

28:51You don't have to handle it perfectly. You don't have to be the picture of grace. You might fall. You might misstep. All that's fine. That's all great ingredients into the cake. But you must handle it. You, no one else. and you'll have to figure out how. And if it's the wrong way, that's great. The next time something comes your way, you're gonna handle it better. And if it's the right way, then great, you've solved this problem, but there's literally no downside. Even if you get blowback, even if somebody calls you names, that's all great stuff. You're gonna use all of it. Anything bad that happens to you is actually a positive as long as you use it.

29:23So something bad has happened to you and now you have a huge opportunity to grow. I mean, you can hit womanhood basically in about a week if you handle this in a strong way. It doesn't have to be the right way, just a strong way. And to where you think about yourself in 30 years and you say, will I be proud of what I did? That should be your guidepost. Good luck. And if they don't do the right thing, call me and I'll publicly humiliate them. All right, let's get this party started. Thank you all for your questions. All right, so the way we're gonna do this is we're gonna bring out Emily in a minute and we're gonna talk to Emily and then we're going to bring out Glenn after that.

30:02I'm going to talk to Glenn and then we're going to have them both sit together for a little while and have a little coffee talk, the three of us. So I want to tell you about Emily Jashinsky. So Emily is like, to me, about 17 years old. She's so young. She's extraordinarily talented. Right? She's great. So I first found Emily myself. She had been working for the Washington Examiner and she had been with YAF, a conservative group for young people. But I first discovered her when she was working at the federalist, you know, molly hemingway Um, she was working the federalist and she was their culture editor and she had such different and unique takes on everything And I love culture commentators.

30:41I do a little bit of it myself But i'm i'm much more into listening to other great people do it like maureen callahan Um And emily is one of those people but she's so young. It's like she has so many great insights for somebody's so anyway but she's always got a different way into the story. She is never predictable, which is one of the reasons why I absolutely adore her. And so we've thankfully been able to fold her more and more into the Megan Kelly show and to our MK media network. Now she hosts after party with Emily Jashinsky, which is killing it, by the way, she's crushing it. You could download that pod.

31:16Yeah. And she's in full flourish. And I like, I can only sort of imagine of where Emily Jashinsky is going to be in 20 years. I think she's going to be the queen of all media. So you will see her tonight while she's just the princess, but well on her way. Take a look at this sizzle reel, and then we'll bring her out.

31:39This is Real Housewives-level drama. Fanny Willis is on tape talking about how she was going to crack down on corruption and nobody would be sleeping with other people in the Dany's office. Andrew Cuomo shouldn't be able to show his face in polite society without apologizing, groveling, and saying what you did wrong. I like it all. He's not trying to pretend. The guy actually really loves McDonald's. Any other politician would be fearfully sticking to their script. The rapid response choir.

32:11I don't want to sound racist, but I sometimes really hate white people, Mike. So ineffective. and it's why they ended up losing the culture which was unthinkable for the right 10 years ago yeah emily jacinski let's give it up for emily

32:41yeah hey girl i like that you brought me out on stage with me being racist against white people Here I am. Setting the stage. I'm sure our friends in Texas will understand. In fact, we should start as an acknowledgement to Karine Jean-Pierre by stating that we are white and we are women. Yeah. Heterosexual. Don't forget that. Hetero. Yeah. Totally straight. And cis. Yes. Yeah. That's the one I always forget. Yeah. The cis. It's easy to forget. Yeah. I hope we forget it forever. Yeah. Around the cusp. So I actually didn't know. I'm preparing for this. I did not know that you were a Midwestern girl, which explains so much about you, right?

33:19People from Texas make sense and people from the Midwest make sense. People from the Northeast where I am from do not make sense. You guys are bad. Yeah. It's a miracle. I grew up in upstate New York, which is not the same as New York. Upstate, we're sensible people. Yes. So tell me about your family. Was it very conservative? I mean, not super political even. My parents are both great and they're both from Wisconsin. so just grew up oh amazing yeah uh i just grew up about an hour west of milwaukee so my mom worked in milwaukee my mom is super like the most amazing person you could imagine her career i mean this woman worked like 70 hour weeks traveling to china and germany and my dad's a civil engineer he worked for the state in the same job basically for 40 years and they they're retired now i have a younger brother he lives in dc so did you always think you were going to get in the news Megan, actually, no.

34:11I loved, when I graduated high school, I wanted to be a stand-up comedian. It's so embarrassing. But when, I loved TV. And so this is where, for me, it's especially special to even know you. Because I don't know if I've told you this story before. I feel like I have said it once before. But I'm obsessed with TV and media, especially news. So I watched a ton of news growing up because there's something just sort of very romantic about it to me. I don't know why, but it just is. And I had a summer job one year. She's talking about Chuck Todd. Yeah, it's Sleepy Eyes. That's my favorite Trump nickname of all time.

34:51Sleepy Eyes? Sleepy Eyes, because it's so specific. And it's something you didn't know was accurate until he said it. Like so many of Trump's nicknames. You're like, oh. But I would watch your show during my lunch break, and I just have these memories of sitting on the floor and watching. and just, I loved you specifically. So it's very, very special. I feel like we were meant to be together. Apparently. I too, like I actually did not think I was going to go into news. I thought I was going to practice law for the rest of my life. But you know, in 10th grade, I took an aptitude test. One of those things that tells you like what you should do.

35:23And you know what it said? I should become a political journalist. You're kidding. Yeah. You believe that? At age 14 or 15, it said you should be a political journalist. I wound up, you know, becoming a lawyer. And then when I was thinking about, well, what else could I do? This would seem like an obvious choice, but I had forgotten all about that. Did you remember it when you decided to go into news? Yes. Interesting. I did do like a two-day internship for the Albany Times Union when I was, I'm from Albany, New York. And it was very cool. I followed around this reporter and I listened to him make his calls.

35:50And it was like, yeah, seemed like very hard-nosed, you know, shoe-leather reporter. And it was great because by the time I finally got my job at Fox, which was not my first job in news and my second job, but I was roomed with, roomed, office mates with Major Garrett. Oh, yeah. You guys know Major Garrett, right? Remember him? This was CBS now, but he truly was a shoe leather reporter who was like, he loves when I tell this story, but when I first walked into our office, I knocked over a huge pile of Maxim magazines. Then I kind of bumped into a file cabinet in his desk, and there was a big bottle of bourbon in there.

36:24I'm like, I'm home. That's a newsroom. Yeah. Yep. So I love it too. There's something romantic about it. But you're, you know, I know that this word gets overused, but you are heterodox. So you came from a family that might lean right a bit, like a little. Well, no, so this is actually really interesting, at least from my perspective, it's interesting. I don't need to bore everyone with the details, but my dad is a union guy because he works for the state of Wisconsin. And my mom is in, I'm sorry, mom, I'm exposing you here, but she is in human resources. So she's a very, I know I said she was a great person earlier, but she's obviously a very bad person.

37:00so you know they they had their own my dad was raised catholic my mom is sort of evangelical and so I got that clash you know they didn't talk about politics all the time but when they did you know when I was a senior in high school it was Scott Walker's act 10 protests my teachers were like leaving the classroom and calling out sick yeah I remember that but my parents were sort of on different sides of that one YAF is that Scott Walker's organization for young people, Young Americans Foundation. And it's, so that's why I just assumed you were conservative. I mean, you don't track conservative now.

37:34You track like, I never know where you're going to land on an issue, which I like. Interesting. So I still, I mean, for me, the most important thing is just being a Christian. And I feel like everything else follows from that. And so it's, you know, I identify, like people always ask, what kind of conservative are you? Libertarian, moderate, whatever. I just feel like I'm normal conservative, but the Trump era has been, it's tested, I think, my politics in all kinds of different ways. All of us. Yes. All of us. Yeah. But you will surprise, like, that's kind of the theme of our evening, because you and Glenn, like, there's so much on which we overlap, but then there's a whole other, you know, realm where we don't overlap.

38:10And, but I like that about you. I mean, I love that. And people, like, people who are really, really pro-Israel will say, like, why do you have Glenn on? I'm like, because I fucking love him. Yeah, man. Why wouldn't I have Glenn on? Yeah. You know, we've gotten to this place where now even within the conservative circles, people are like, no, you can't platform that person because they have views that I object to, or they've said things I object to. It's like, no, I don't care about views some people may find objectionable. Now, if you've lost your ever loving mind, I'm probably not going to have you on the show because I want my audience not to be misled.

38:40But different views from my own, of course. So how are you looking at what's happening right now on the right? Yeah. I mean, so I had this experience when I was probably 26 or something of starting to host a show with someone who's a democratic socialist, basically, Ryan Grimm. And Ryan is a wonderful human being. And I learned from that, the labels, because people would apply labels to Ryan, even things that I would have thought of Ryan before I knew him. And they just all dissolve when you're forced to be in close proximity with someone having challenging conversations. And you see how they are as a dad and a husband.

39:16And you realize it's so easy to jump to labels because politics is so personal. And I mean, the Israel stuff obviously looms over so much of what we talk about on the right now, which I find it to get very boring, to be honest. But it's just the labels that I was told to apply to people who thought one way, I just saw up close and personal that they weren't right. And for me, I think it's just amazing that I'm forced to challenge myself all the time to talk to the guests that Ryan wants to bring on or Crystal Ball wants to bring on. Yes, I love Crystal Ball. She's a leftist. She's kind of a democratic socialist a little bit.

39:54Totally. She's totally brilliant and very cool and a beautiful person inside and out. But it does require you to spend time with people who are of that ilk to realize, right, okay, we disagree ardently, but I have love for this person. Right. And we need that now more than ever. I know. Right? I know. And that's like, it just, people, this is, I think we're seeing this happen a lot right now, is that someone gets categorized as bad because you believe their politics will lead to something bad, which is totally fair. It doesn't make the person bad for coming to a different side on that question.

40:30They had a different background experience. And I think they're so wrong. And I think their wrongness, like Zoran Mamdani, I think his wrongness is going to lead to a lot of misery in New York City. Yeah. I don't think my friends who feel like the status quo in New York City has immiserated them are wrong to be like, hey, maybe I want to give this guy a chance. I don't think it makes them a bad person. I think it makes them wrong, but not wrong as people, not wrong morally. They'll be living under Sharia law soon. I got to say that the Zoran Mamdami does scare me. He scares me. It's not even the socialism, which does scare me too.

41:06But the fact that he went down and embraced that imam. Did you see the story? He loves this imam in Manhattan. This guy literally testified for the defense when the blind sheikh was tried for bombing the World Trade Center the first time. He testified for the defense. Wasn't he a character witness? Yes, for the blind sheikh. And he said a lot of terror-loving things. This imam, who Zora Mamdami is embracing and called a pillar of our community. like last week. It's not like all three years ago, some random rope line where he had a picture. That guy scares me. He's very focused on Palestine. He's very focused on Muslim.

41:43What mosque did you visit? Did you see that in the New York debate? That was his test for Andrew Cuomo. What mosque did you? No mosque. That's why Andrew Cuomo is so weak. He should have said, I didn't visit any mosque. This is a Judeo-Christian country. This is a Judeo-Christian city. Muslims make up 9%, and I didn't visit their mosque, and I don't need to visit their mosque. Maybe the worst candidate in the history of bad candidates is Andrew Cuomo post-COVID. They've been like, yeah, let's do it. Let's do it. Let's put our money behind that guy. I'm interested. Can you shout out if you care about the New York mayoral race?

42:17You do? Okay. So I never know whether people, you know, obviously we live in the area. My family and I live in the area, so we care. But I think I'd care even if I lived in San Francisco because New York is our crown jewel. I mean, it's an amazing, amazing American city. And I think it's the greatest city in the world bar none. and we're about to hand it over to a lunatic who doesn't know what he's doing. That's our only saving grace is that he doesn't know what he's doing. So maybe he'll just be so incompetent, but I am also interested in how we got here. Like how did New Yorkers who are not fools get so desperate that they would consider this guy?

42:51That is such an interesting question. And even just for asking it, you know, if you don't ask it the right way or whatever, people pile on. And it makes it so hard to get, first of all, it makes it hard for both parties to seed good candidates because they don't want anybody who, like Marjorie Taylor Greene is a really good example of someone who I think, you know, growing up in Wisconsin, Marjorie Taylor Greene, I know she's from Georgia, but like that is a person that you know, and the political system is trying to make it impossible for her to exist as a normal non-political robot. She is like the top small dollar fundraising Republican in Congress.

43:29And they are trying to make it impossible because she just colors outside the lines. And coloring outside the lines sometimes means having uncomfortable conversations. Like what on earth happened that Democrats in New York looked at Andrew Cuomo and said, this guy, he's been around a long time. We are going with the 33-year-old democratic socialist, right? That's a huge problem. And now if he wins the race, which he probably will, again, the level of desperation that has to be behind people going with that, unbelievable. I know. The economic problems are not getting addressed on the right or the left.

44:08People are still suffering. This is actually a big threat to Trump come the midterms, right? Because he's still not scoring well in the polls on people's economic issues. And while he's doing everything he can, I mean, Trump would say his tariff plan is actually to help on the economic issues. He gets so much guff over it. But so far, I feel like it's actually going pretty well. I'm a tariff person. Yeah. But that's another thing on which people were not open-minded. They were knee-jerk criticism of Trump. And so far, he's brought in quite a bit of revenue on it. And it's helped us get Mexico to crack down on its fentanyl labs.

44:41It's helped us with Canada. I don't know. I'm very open-minded on the tariffs, but it's another thing you're not allowed to touch. No, you can't talk about it. No, and before Trump came along, nobody would ever suggest a tariff anywhere near what some of his tariffs have been. Oh, no Republican. No, no Republican. Yeah, exactly. It was like Bernie, basically. But what he's doing, I don't know how the tariff war is going to end, but I do know that he has scared the hell out of all of these countries who were getting a much better deal than we were and now realize supply chains are going to shift.

45:11They have to adjust because the U.S. isn't going back. I mean, Biden kept a significant part of Trump 1.0 tariffs because that is where the country has to. I mean, it's clearly where the country has to go. So I don't know what happens with the tariffs at the end of the day. But the idea that we couldn't talk about this. Yeah. Insane. What do you think of the question one of the audience members asked about where we should stand on Israel? Come on, Megan. It's fine. I know you've got different views on this, but that's fine. I think people want to hear that. They want to hear the different views.

45:43Well, no, no. I think it's, I mean, so I have one particular story that started to change the way that I thought about Israel as someone who grew up, again, I grew up like Missouri Synod Lutherans, we may be LCMS, but very like low church evangelical culture. And so left behind books, the rapture, all of that fun stuff, and never questioned it that much. Never questioned that sort of dispensationalist reading of scripture. and the story of a Christian American journalist named Shireen Abu Akhla, who was killed in, I think it was the West Bank, and this was like 2021. That story really piqued my interest.

46:28You know, I used to have a rule with Ryan that for, I shouldn't say this, but I'm going to, for every one story we covered about Israel, I would make him cover a story about trans athletes. Did we win him over on that issue? I don't know, actually. That's a good question. We don't talk about it that much because after October 7th, we did so much Israel coverage. And when she was killed, I started asking some people I really trusted on the right because I had to cover the story. What's going on here? This seems weird. It looks like she was targeted. What's happening? And what I heard made a lot of sense to me, which is the IDF has no reason to do this.

47:07Why would the IDF do this? And I saw the Biden administration basically taking the Israeli government's propaganda and regurgitating it. And I really didn't like being lied to about an American, about a Christian, and about a journalist's death. And eventually, the IDF came out and said, you know, this was our mistake. But it took weeks, and they pretty clearly knew it right away. I mean, it's almost impossible to imagine they didn't know it right away. You could actually see the bullet pattern behind the tree that she was shot in front of. And after that, it just sort of, the paradigm shifted for me as to how I evaluated these stories.

47:48And I still think, you know, it's, you know this better than anyone right now. You just said you're pro-Israel. I, too, am pro-Israel. And even saying that isn't enough sometimes. sometimes. So I think people underestimate the degree to which just that in and of itself has created skepticism because people really don't like our government regurgitating foreign propaganda and then being told you can't question it. Yeah. No, I mean, look at how much we rip on our own government. We rip on our own government all the time. We'd rip on it whether Trump's in there or certainly ripped on it a lot when Biden was in there.

48:23You can rip on our government and we do all the time. Israel's certainly fair game. Oh yeah. They're not even our government. But why can't we rip on Israel? We absolutely can rip on Israel. Ripping on Israel is a fine thing to do. Doesn't mean, in my view, you don't go so far as to say, I'm an anti-Zionist and they can't exist. Like, that's crazy town. But I really strongly reject the attempts to stifle the criticism against them because they spent a long time trying to tell us, you can criticize Israel at the beginning of this war, just don't be anti-Semitic. Okay, got it. And then as soon as many of us started to get more critical of Israel, it was, you're an anti-Semite.

48:56Well, no, we're not going to play that game. Oh, my gosh. And the Israeli media is more critical of Israel than sometimes the American media is. It's incredible. Following the Israeli media after October 7th has been very eye-opening as well, because their conversations are actually much more big picture and broad and include a more diverse array of voices. Well, I mean, look, it's not like our media has figured out the perfect formula either. No, that's for sure. And speaking of that, I want to ask you about what's happening at the White House and the Reno. The media has lost its ever-loving mind.

49:29I actually have my notes here because I wanted to read exactly what they're saying. Okay, Maria Shriver. You know her, she's Kennedy. It breaks my heart and infuriates me. The addition of a ballroom. Why is she so worked up? Hillary Rodham Clinton. It's not his house, it's our house, and he's destroying it. And what does she do? She starts selling hats with that on it to make money off of the White House yet again. Such a grifter. The bulwark, which exists only to bring down Trump, as soon as the Democrat gets in there, the addition must be raised, R-A-Z-E-D. Must be completely demolished and any sign of Trump's ballroom must be gotten rid of.

50:19The media doesn't talk about all the reno that has been done by so many other presidents in the past and by Obama's nearly$400 million reno, which is less than what Trump is doing, or the fact that we didn't have an adequate space for dignitaries to gather and have a celebration inside the White House. And then I'll give you one more. Gretchen Carlson, who I used to work with at Fox. She gets out there and she's like, I was there when they signed the sexual harassment, whatever, in the East Room, and now it's been demolished. indelible in the hippocampus. So no, the East Room is part of the main White House.

50:56Like when you walk in the front door, the Northern Entry, it's one of those rooms where they still hold ceremonies all the time. Not to be confused with the East Wing, which only has a couple of offices supposed to be used by the First Lady. They are two entirely different things. But these are the people who are supposed to be our media betters, educating us about how bad Trump is and why it's terrible what he's doing. The New York Times had an amazing story on this, where they tried to cite examples of the history that the East Wing means to the country, all of the history that's taken place in the East Wing, which was built, I think, in 1902 under Teddy Roosevelt.

51:28So it's, I mean, people in general, I think, think the White House is much older than it is. It's, a lot of it is, is pretty new, but the Times story, I'm telling you this is true, the three examples they cite, first, they say the East Wing, where Bill Clinton used to meet with Dick Morris without his staff knowing. Oh, the White House's latest additions to its website, you're saying? No, no, this is actually, that is incredible too. The New York Times really was like, God rest the East Wing. This is where Bill Clinton used to meet with Dick Morris without his staff noting. Their second example is that this is where Dick Cheney was rushed away on 9-11.

52:07And their third example is it's where Donald Trump was taken during 2020 protests. It's like, these are the three examples you could come up with of the reverent sacred East Wing history. Dick fucking Morris. Are you kidding me? I believe it's dickmorris.com. Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes. Dickmorris.com. Yes, yes, yes. Wait, so that actually reminds me, this is also on my notes, which I laughed at, because the White House added something to its website today because they wanted to underscore the historic nature of the White House. And here it is. Hold on, you've got to hear this. So they put up a major events timeline on the White House website, and it now includes sections detailing all the renovations over the decades, and also the following.

52:471998, Bill Clinton's affair with intern Monica Lewinsky. It's on whitehouse.gov, but you can look it up. President Bill Clinton's affair with intern Monica Lewinsky was exposed, leading to White House perjury investigation. The Oval Office trysts fueled impeachment for obstruction. 2012, Obama hosting members of the Muslim Brotherhood. 2023, Hunter Biden losing his cocaine in the White House. So good. There's nobody better at trolling than the Trump White House. Nobody. You want to talk history? Let's talk history. We love the historic nature of the White House. You missed the best entry on the timeline, which is the trans day of visibility.

53:32Yes. Did you see that one? Yes, that training showing off his boobs on the front of the White House lawn. And they put that on WhiteHouse.gov as part of the tour of historical moments. It can never be disturbed. No, no, no, no. But honestly, this all goes back to the media and how if it weren't for people like you in independent media, people wouldn't know these facts. The media is not telling you any of that stuff about the prior renovations of the White House or how this is actually not a big deal and how Obama spent a lot more on his reno than Trump did on his for something that no one really cared about.

54:03and it is thanks to independent media that you already know a lot of this. You came in knowing a lot of this and so it's the antidote, you know, that the media has driven people crazy. I think it's had a big role in radicalizing the left and causing this tendency towards political violence and the antidote, yes, is what we're doing here tonight and what you guys are doing by listening to these shows and what we're doing in independent media to counteract all the lies. I couldn't agree with that more.

54:35it's the experience, let's just take this East Wing example of somebody Googling to try and figure out whether Donald Trump is actually destroying sacred American history. They Google, they read a New York Times story, they look on NBC.com or whatever, and they come away thinking, okay, so this is really serious. And then they decide, but these are fairly left. Let me just go and see what other people are saying. And they're like, these things are completely opposed to one another. Like these two completely opposed to one another. And so just like for the good of the country, like that experience, we have all had it.

55:07We probably all have it like once a week. It is so hard to vote, to make decisions about your own life. I mean, during COVID to make decisions about your personal health, about your kids, about schools. How are people supposed to share any truth? You can't do it. So it's desperately needed. All right. We are going to pause it here with Emily. We're going to bring out Glenn and then Emily coming on back on the back end. Thank you so much. Love you. All right, Emily Trishinsky, everybody. So let me tell you something about Glenn Greenwald, okay? I met Glenn years ago, but before we actually met each other, Glenn had been saying nice things about me in the media, even though I was at Fox News and he was at The Guardian.

55:55Now, it's never happened before or since that somebody at The Guardian would say something nice about a Fox News person. So he kind of came to my attention and I apparently came to his. And from that moment forward, a beautiful friendship was born. I wound up having him on my show. And when I got into independent media, he was the first guest on my show. And he's been on my show more than any other guest. Glenn Greenwald. a leftist former Guardian reporter who happens to be a Pulitzer Prize winner and an Oscar winner. Did you know that? Glenn Greenwald has an Oscar. He'll tell us what he won an Oscar for.

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57:41Take a look at Glenn Greenwald's show here. there's no wonder that the country hates the media no longer trusts it these people in the media are held in complete contempt it just has a stench of like cover-up in a way that's very dangerous and deceitful to lie to the public for so many years about the person who has the nuclear codes and what their mental state is there is not a thing that comes to mind i don't know i never thought about that before i'll get back to you right now nothing's coming to mind that is Stunning. This is real contempt and hatred in a marriage. The way you're chewing makes me want to smack you upside the head.

58:19The only time I ever see clips of a show of Ava is when you force me to see them. That's why you think you're the Megyn Kelly Show godfather. The godfather of the Megyn Kelly Show, exactly. The godfather himself, Glenn Greenwald, everybody!

58:35The godfather himself, Glenn Greenwald, everybody! The godfather himself, Glenn Greenwald, everybody!

58:45This is the first time we've ever met a person. Can you believe that? Bizarre. Today is the first time. We talked about that the last time I was on your show because in this world, you can not meet someone physically and know them so well. We're very good friends. It was bizarre. How do we have a very good friendship and never have met before? So we've rectified that now. So it is funny, though, how it began, right? Has it ever happened before or since? A Guardian reporter saying something nice about a Fox News reporter? but in that moment, a beautiful friendship was born. We just didn't know it yet.

59:15We didn't. It took a few years for us to allow the walls to erode. But no, I remember it was very kind of serendipitous. I was watching Fox, and in that era, I didn't do that much. I was constantly on MSNBC and CNN, and you had your Fox show. And I remember you started interviewing Republican senators, and it was adversarial, even a little mean, but very professional, but mean. And for me, as someone who was always on MSNBC, where Democratic senators are treated like like high priests, like the paragons of virtue, never asked a hard question. I said, wait a minute, I kept hearing on Fox that it's this deeply partisan network that only feeds people what they want to hear, and yet here's a 9 o 'clock p.m.

59:53host, prime time, with big ratings, who's beloved by conservatives, pounding Republican politicians with hard questions the way she's supposed to as a journalist. And yeah, I remember Politico called me when they were doing a profile on you and said, hey, you've been praising Megyn Kelly. That's really weird. You're on the left. She's a conservative. And I said, you know, for me, journalism is way higher for a journalist than partisan affiliation. And she does the sort of thing that I think we need more of and respect. And I remember people on the left were horrified. How can you praise Megyn Kelly?

1:00:24She's a Nazi. I was like, what? Megyn Kelly? She's a Nazi? I was a Nazi before it was cool. Exactly. You were. You were. You were. But yeah, that's what, you know, I think that's one of the things we share that, again, took a while for us to realize. That's exactly right. So the first thing I remember you reached out to me on or you said something publicly on was an exchange I had with then Vice President Dick Cheney. And actually, we have the soundbite. I don't know. Let's see if this works. We haven't played a shot yet at one of these. Let's see. This is the moment. Rarely has the U.S. President been so wrong about so much at the expense of so many.

1:01:01But time and One time again, history has proven that you got it wrong as well in Iraq, sir. You said there was no doubt Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. You said we would be greeted as liberators. You said the Iraq insurgency was in the last throes back in 2005. And you said that after our intervention, extremists would have to, quote, rethink their strategy of jihad. Now with almost a trillion dollars spent there, with 4 ,500 American lives lost there, what do you say to those who say you were so wrong about so much at the expense of so many? No, I just fundamentally disagree, Reagan.

1:01:38You've got to go back and look at the track record. We inherited a situation where there was no doubt in anybody's mind. All right, you get the hint. You see how it goes. But if you heard it, he called me Reagan. So he got rattled. And let me tell you something. I was a little scared to ask that question too, because Dick Cheney is scary. He's scary. He has all of them for Halliburton. And yeah, he was called Darth Cheney, which is a very appropriate nickname. But they were rattled. You saw them there. Because I don't think people... By the way, this is called journalism. And this is... I think it's so important.

1:02:15You know, you were talking before about how unpopular media is. And it is. Our profession is held in extremely low esteem, deservedly so. In fact, I think 27 % is too high. I mean, it's barely above, you know, like syphilis and Congress. And it's deserved. It's below cockroaches, below. Yeah, exactly. And I, but I think it's so important to realize that when you hate the media and you know you should because they're so dishonest and deceitful and destructive, journalism remains really important. We need journalism. It's not that we're against journalism. It's we're against people who pretend to be journalists but who would never do anything like that.

1:02:53and I think that's such an important value to affirm. That's what's so galling to me is it's like now I'm in sort of a different business. I'm still a journalist, but now I'm doing a lot more commentary too. And, and I, I have nothing but disdain for the people who won't do that. It's not that hard. You don't want to do it. You're, it's, you're kind of hitting your own side. You know that. I mean, I'm on Fox news. I'm well aware of how like Roger Ailes at the time feels about Dick Cheney. And, but you have to force yourself to because you have, you know, integrity. It's the job that you signed up to do.

1:03:22And you just never see it. Not to toot my own horn, but I'm just saying you don't watch MSNBC and ever see them give their side any sort of guff. And we've really suffered as a result because like in my lane, I don't have access to people on the left. Leftist politicians won't come on my show. They would never subject themselves to that kind of tough questioning. And the left that does have access won't do it. Yeah, you know, it was funny. I was talking to Emily before, before he came on, and we were both talking about how, and I was describing to her, trying to describe to her my worldview. You know, people are always trying to discover, is he on the left?

1:03:57Is he on the right? And I think people have a hard time knowing your ideology with precision either. And for me, you know, I decided to become a journalist, not a politician. I'm not a party operative. I could have been that. I'm not a spokesperson for a politician. I could have been that too, as you could you. I decided to become a journalist and for me that entails obligations and I think the primary view worldview that I have being journalist is that it's always dangerous for human beings to have lots of power and lots of money with no pushback no scrutiny no journalistic examination and so whoever has the most power that's what I'm going to be adversarial to not because I dislike them not because I hate them not because I want to destroy their reputation but because our society He needs people with power to be accountable, to have to answer hard questions no matter who it is.

1:04:46It's very hard to do, I have to say, because it's like I'm so relieved that Trump got elected that I'm completely rooting for him. But you have to be honest about his pitfalls, too. And so the way I've handled that on our show is I'll bring on somebody like you who will be very critical of Kilmar Abrego Garcia and how that was handled, for example. And I want the audience to hear your point of view. And I can easily defend Trump on it, as I have with you. but I want them to know this actually is controversial, and there's a very robust set of criticisms of Trump here, and let the audience hear them.

1:05:17But that too, it's just so rare. If you want to hear an actual debate that's substantive between smart people on any place, on cable news or broadcast, you can't. First of all, the format doesn't permit it. You know, you have to speak for eight minutes in between commercial breaks. Nobody can have a real debate. People have to speak in cliches. I mean, it's very difficult with that little time. Independent media allows a lot more time. I think we argued about that or about, you know, the student protesters for 20 minutes. I mean, argued in a very, you know, civil sense. And we were able to, you know, immediately after move on to something where we agreed on and not have it affect our friendship in any way.

1:05:52And I think that is what we're missing. But the only reason that works is because, you know, I think I have credibility to do it. I'm somebody who defended Donald Trump when I was very much associated with the lab. New Russiagate was bullshit from the start, just journalistically false. I thought it was a dangerous scandal. And I went around, you know, saying that everywhere. I mean, I was virtually Tucker's co-host. I was on that show so much, you know, and you're like, wait a minute, what's going on here? Tucker, Glenn, girl, but you know, and I've defended him on his views on Ukraine. So I think when I'm criticizing him, people understand it's not coming from a place of partisanship or reflexive, you know, desire to attack Trump.

1:06:29It's just, and I think this debate inside the MAGA movement, inside the right about Ukraine, about Israel. These things are really healthy. You don't want a mindlessly unified population behind a leader. You want people saying, wait a minute, you campaigned on this. I supported you on that. When is this going to happen? And I think the conservative movement has done that as well as anybody. You know, wait, where are the Epstein files? Why is this war still going on? You know, and that is really healthy and important. That's exactly right. And I think Republicans are very good at infighting. I mean, they're excellent at infighting.

1:07:02Much better than the left, which the left sticks together, I have to say. It's like they get their people in line. That Nancy Pelosi, she rules with an iron 200-year-old fist. There's something to be admired there. With a very healthy stock portfolio that always increases as she stays in contract. It's amazing how they've called the stocks, almost like an NBA basketball player at a poker table.

1:07:26very timely okay so tell us a little bit about your background because you have a very interesting background glenn you like you tell us how you got into this line of work because it started with a blog yeah i mean i was you know a lawyer litigating constitutional cases in in new york i wasn't really that interested politically in the 90s it seemed a little bit low stakes you know the cold War was over, like the election in 1996 was Bill Clinton versus Bob Dole. I'm not saying it's unimportant, but who gets excited about that? And you know, the big scandal was the Monica Lewinsky scandal. It just, I wasn't, I didn't find it nourishing.

1:08:02And I focused a lot on the constitution, which I revered and still do. But then after 9-11, you know, I was living in New York. I was on in Manhattan on 9-11 and it was, you know, had all the same emotions, everybody else rage and sadness and thirst for vengeance. And then very quickly, I began to believe that this was being exploited by people who had pre-existing agendas to do things like introduce the Patriot Act and warrantless spying on Americans and arresting Americans on. How did you see that? Like, what was it in your recent past that led you, just your love of the Constitution? Because a lot of us saw that and then were quick to defend it because we were scared.

1:08:38Right. And I, like I said, I understood that I shared those emotions. I'm human. I was in New York, you know, I remember walking around for a week and smelling the debris in the World Trade Center and seeing on the lamppost, you know, these desperate families putting up pictures of their loved ones saying, missing, please call if you, and they knew, you know, obviously everybody knew that they were deceased. It was horrific. So I shared those emotions. It wasn't like those were alien to me, but at the same time, I also did believe, and I still do, in this, all the things we're taught to believe as Americans, what makes our country great.

1:09:09It's not that we have this landmass. It's not that, you know, we have a pretty flag. It's that the founders of our country designed this brilliant system designed to avoid the pitfalls of tyranny and authoritarianism that they had just fought an extremely dangerous war against the most powerful empire on the planet to liberate themselves from. They were eager not to replicate it. And I studied these texts, like the Constitution, the Federalist Papers, and these debates, and I believed in them. And so when I saw our government spying on people without warrants and empowering detention with no due process of American citizens on American soil, these were the kind of things I was taught to expect never going to happen in the United States.

1:09:46And yes, I understood people were afraid, but I also knew that authoritarianism resides where governments and people in power can put the population in fear and then tell them, acquiesce to everything we demand because that's the only way you're going to stay safe. And if you dissent at all or you question us, you're going to be endangered and so is your family. It's a very dangerous but powerful form of propaganda. it worked like a charm. Perfectly, yeah. Like a charm. So you start this blog and you start writing about these issues and let's just go through the time. It was 2013. Was that the day the year of Snowden?

1:10:19Yeah. So the day I started my blog was late 2005 and I got kind of lucky. It was about three weeks. The New York Times broke this big story that they didn't actually even want to publish, but one of the reporters was going to break in the book. So they published it and then won a Pulitzer and patted themselves on the back for their courage. But it was about how right after 9-11, the U.S. government authorized the NSA to spy on Americans without warrants. And that became an issue that I wrote about constantly, and I was able to build a very big audience that way, just because it was the perfect confluence of my interest and passion and expertise as an institutional lawyer.

1:10:50And, you know, that became sort of what my specialty was, was critiquing U.S. foreign policy. I was very critical of Bush-Cheney foreign policy, many of the ones that you brought up there. and then Obama got into office campaigning to undo all them, but instead extending many of them, strengthening and expanding many of them. And I started criticizing Obama on the same grounds that I was criticizing Bush and Cheney when they were doing the same things. And a bunch of liberals were saying, we're attacking me. I was like, wait, four seconds ago, you also thought these things were bad, but now it transformed at the hands of this benevolent, kind, you know, intellect, Barack Obama.

1:11:25You know, I started having getting disillusioned. And at the time, one of my readers was Edward Snowden, and he was working inside the CIA and the NSA, and became convinced that there was a lot going on inside the U.S. government about how these agencies were violating their core mission, which was never to turn their machinery inward on the American people. It was supposed to be directed at our adversaries and our enemies. Right, and there were several war on terror whistleblowers who, you know, said I worked at the CIA, worked at the NSA, I was always told this is what we're never going to do because it will destroy the fabric of our country.

1:11:59And Edward Snowden was inside the NSA and saw that they were converting the internet, which is supposed to be this tool of liberation and democratization and empowerment of individuals, into the most repressive and omnipotent system of coercion and surveillance ever in human history. And he contacted journalists in late 2012. He contacted me and then my colleague, Laura Poitras, who directed Citizen Four, that won the Oscar. She did a film on our work together. That's the film for which he won an Oscar. Yeah, we flew to Hong Kong. We flew to Hong Kong and met him. And the minute we got there, she, who's a brilliant filmmaker, she had been nominated for Academy Awards before, she turned the camera on and started filming my work with Snowden.

1:12:38And it became a documentary that was filmed in real time, not with talking heads, it's talking retroactively. And that story, I think, changed the way a lot of people thought, not just about privacy and surveillance, but about democracy. You know, how do we have these unaccountable agencies, off in the dark, making some of the most consequential decisions ever with no one even in Congress knew, let alone the population. And how do we have democracy if you have this deep state that operates with no accountability? How did the Pulitzer Prize change your life?

1:13:11To be honest, you know, I... Oh, that's nice. That's nice. Thank you. Not easy to win one. It's even tougher to win a Nobel Prize. I was very divided because it's given to you by the media. And I hated the media. And I was like, wait a minute. Why are they bestowing me with awards? But I actually heard and was very happy about the fact that there was a big internal war because they didn't want to give that to me, but kind of had to. So that made me feel better about getting this shameful, dirty award. At least I've upset everyone. Yeah, and it's just something nobody can ever take away from you.

1:13:44It's very difficult for journalists to try and deny. I know they do this to you too. Oh, you're not really a journalist. And I'm like, look over here. You know, every journalism award that exists is on the shelf. And I just, that's the only real thing it does for me is, yeah. So there was a time when you were out of the country and you couldn't come back? Well, the Obama administration got very threatening, you know, about the Snowden reporting. They, I don't know if you remember, but when the president of Bolivia, Ivo Morales, went to Russia where Snowden was, but they only went for a state meeting.

1:14:18meeting, you know, just like a standard state meeting between heads of sovereign countries, the U.S. just had like an inkling that maybe his presidential plane was picking up Snowden to bring him back to Bolivia, and they downed the plane forcibly. This was, I remember I went to the Russian consulate, I needed a Russian visa, I was going to Russia to see Snowden, and these Russians came out, and they were like, look, I know why your government hates Snowden, we can't, we wouldn't allow, you know, leaking of our secret information too, but downing the plane of our president, even to the Russians, they were like, I don't understand that.

1:14:49They're kind of in a glass house there. Yeah, they were, but I mean, it was really, you know, it's really a step too far. And they, you know, James Clapper and some Republican senators and Democratic members of Congress started openly talking about not just prosecuting Snowden, but also the journalists who worked with them, namely myself and Laura. And, you know, we would call up the Justice Department. Our lawyers wouldn't say, is it safe for them to come back? And they would say, we can't guarantee that safety. So Laura was in Germany working on Citizen Four. and the rest of the stories, she wouldn't leave Germany and I couldn't leave Brazil because the U.S.

1:15:18government was being very menacing. And we only came back once the Pulitzers happened. And we figured the U.S. government doesn't want the black eye publicity putting in prison two people who just won the Pulitzers for reporting. Wow. It's incredible. So flash forward now, that's 2013. Seven years later, you've left The Guardian. You've started your own outlet called The Intercept. is your concoction, your creation, your vision, and you're making it happen, you're publishing news the way you want it done. And there comes a clash that leads to you leaving the very journalistic organization you founded because they wouldn't let you report honestly on Hunter Biden and Joe Biden.

1:16:04Yeah, I mean, it was, the reason why it was so amazing was when we started The Intercept, And it was myself and Laura Poitras and other investigative journalist, Jeremy Scahill, all of whom had done battle with the deep state and done reporting of that kind. The idea was we want to start a completely nonpartisan media outlet that is adversarial to people in power, especially to the agencies that don't get nearly enough journalistic attention and scrutiny. I think a lot of corporate media outlets were very captive to these agencies, subservient to them, and they exercised great power. And so the idea was we're going to start a media outlet that has no ideology or partisan affiliation.

1:16:39and it worked for a while and then Donald Trump came in 2016 and we did a lot of reporting on the emails that were released from Hillary Clinton through WikiLeaks because it revealed a lot of incriminating information about this very powerful politician who was the front runner for the 2016 election and I think our editors were all kind of liberals I let you know we hired editors I wanted to do the journalism not sit in HR meetings and budget meetings I wanted to do journalism They were all liberals in brooklyn, but they figured i'll let them go, you know reporting on hillary She's gonna win anyway, and then trump won And all their friends said What is wrong with you?

1:17:15You you helped trump win you did negative reporting on hillary And I remember the night of the election, you know, we had these like virtual newsrooms where everyone gathered And someone said Our coverage everybody was crying people were crying. These were journalists crying. I mean like sad tears and somebody came and said our coverage was very misogynistic and we need to publicly apologize and I was like go work for the democratic party we're not apologizing for anything this is our job you know this is our role and then in 2020 I knew the hunter-biden laptop documents were authentic from the beginning because I had a lot of experience working on big archives you know the Snowden archive yeah WikiLeaks had a big reporting in Brazil that involved a large archive.

1:18:01Also, the pictures made it pretty clear. The way you journalists authenticate archives, yes, the pictures were pretty authentic and pretty good proof. But the archive has emails written to five people. And you go to one of the people on the email chain and you say, show me in your phone this email that you got in real time. And they show it to you and it matches word for word what's in the archive. That's how journalists authenticate. So I knew for sure this archive, and I wanted to report on it. I wanted to get the documents, write about it, because Joe Biden was a major presidential candidate.

1:18:32And my editors, when they realized that I was working on it, came and said, according to the FBI, this is Russian disinformation. And remember, this was a news outlet founded to be adversarial to these security state agencies. And they were telling me, according to the FBI, as though that's gospel, the Biden FBI, this is Russian disinformation. I said, it's so obvious these materials are real. But I knew, They said, there's no way we can allow you to publish this because the material isn't verified. The government claims it's fake. And I didn't start a media outlet to be told what I can and can't report.

1:19:07And I knew their motives were not journalistic, but political. And I left. You left your own organization. Yeah, I had to quit my own organization because if I can't report on major political candidates because editors want to manipulate the outcome of our politics in one way or another, why would I stay? I can't do what I want to do, much is my job. And that became a reflection of the media writ large. They were so, they renounced completely their journalistic function, would have said or done anything to get Donald Trump defeated. That's what Russiagate was. And then that's what the lie about the Hunter Biden laptop was.

1:19:44They were petrified about what it showed about Joe Biden. So they were willing to lie about it. These are journalists. And they're still lying about it to this day. To this day, they don't admit that. They can't admit it because they were all so invested in it. Well, it's like watching, you know, first Kamala and now Karine Jampier on these book tours and the dishonest media, letting them get away with, you know, I only saw him for a brief time. I barely saw him on the plane over to the way to the debate. So I didn't know he wasn't feeling well that night. Like every word of that is a lie. She was the White House press secretary.

1:20:14Yes, you were in the White House with him daily for years. You knew he was infirm. You covered it up. It wasn't about the plane ride over to the debate, but these same journalists were in on the whole thing. So they have to give her a pass. It's a dishonest setup. I'm sure you remember. And this was, you know, there's so many different events that made me realize the depth of depravity and just deceit within our profession. And we watched Joe Biden on these videos, even before that debate night in France, and then having to be got off the stage by Obama. And I remember to this day, the Washington Post, the New York Times published story saying the American right or conservatives are using, and they invented this new term, it was sheep fakes, where it was supposed to be defined as the video is real, but the context is somehow distorted.

1:21:04And one of the things they said that about was the night when Obama led Biden off the stage because he was completely, he didn't know where he was. You could see it. Yeah, you guys remember that video, right? They're at that fundraiser and Biden was kind of wandering and Obama grabbed him by the hand, put his hand around his back and kind of shepherded him off. He had those vacant eyes that he always had, like, where am I? Yes. And the whole media said, oh, you're lying. That's not. He was totally present. All the Democrats said he was present. And it turns out George Clooney, of course, after the election is over, admitted that when he wrote that New York Times op-ed calling for Biden to withdraw from the race, it was because on that night, even before that thing happened, he saw that there was no more Joe Biden, that it was just a vacant.

1:21:44But he kept it to himself until after. the media call everybody who saw it liars. Yes. George Clooney is a dishonest hack. Who's like a pretend wannabe journalist. Who's not even really very good at acting. Nevermind at journalists, at journalism anymore. But you know, exactly. They kept the secret amongst themselves until it was outed by Joe Biden himself. And I have to tell you, I've been thinking about the Joe Biden mental infirmity lately, because I think so much of what we're dealing with right now as a country is directly linked to that. I mean, I am very much in favor of like the full fledged investigation into exactly how it went down.

1:22:17Because Joe Biden, he was a leftist, of course, but he wasn't one of these far, far leftists. He was always a little bit more moderate. He had been close to a blue dog Democrat. The left hated him. The real left hated Joe Biden. They hated Joe Biden. Exactly right. But he was tough on crime. He wasn't pro and open border. Very pro-Israel. He wasn't woke. No, not woke. Very pro-corporation. The left hated Joe Biden. So the behavior that Joe Biden brought into office from day one was anomalous to the man that we had come to know as a legislator, you know, as a U.S. senator. And I firmly believe the reason we have now an extra 11 million illegals is because of his mental infirmity.

1:22:57Someone in that White House had an agenda that did not match his. And that's who made those decisions. We still don't know the answer to that. It's the it's you know, you look at so many media lies, Russiagate, the underbind laptop, all the lies about COVID. But to me, this is by far the biggest scandal because you have somebody who is in charge of the nuclear codes, someone who can start wars or end wars, somebody who makes decisions that affect the lives of hundreds of millions of Americans, billions of people on the planet, the world economy, and he was incapable of making those decisions. And I remember saying in real time all the time, yes, it's a political scandal that people are lying about Joe Biden's mental state, but the bigger question is, who's running the government?

1:23:38Who is in charge? Who's making these very consequential decisions. And I say person after person taking the fifth in the context of this investigation into them, like including his own personal doctor. It's very sketchy. And I truly think like we need answers on that because look at the number of people who have died as a result of those illegals coming across the border that he just welcomed in for no apparent discernible reason other than it's humane. That's what he said. And encouraging, you mentioned legal immigration. Like, okay, technically legal immigration from Haiti to the tune of tens of thousands who were led in.

1:24:12It's not like the Joe Biden who we knew. And somebody made that decision other than him. I'm convinced of it. And that's why the media is so guilty. The original sin, as Jake Tapper put it in the name of his book, the media was in on it. They are complicit. They are equally to blame. And they're still misleading to this day. All right, stand by. Because now that we're getting into the media, we've got to talk about what was in Corrine Jean-Pierre's book. I've got to read you the latest. Matt Taibbi outed it. He read it so we don't have to. And for this, I'm going to have Emily rejoin us because I know she wants in on this.

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1:28:03You guys are not going to believe what is in this book. Hi, Glenn. Hello, Emily. All right, the gang's all here. So Corrine Jean-Pierre, you know, not content to just let Kamala look like the dumbest one in the administration, writes her own book, or someone wrote her book. And, you know, we've been talking on the show about how literally to every promotional appearance she makes, what is she telling people? I'm black. I am black. And queer. Queer, too. Don't forget my queerness. And, in fact, we have that queued up, just for those of you who have missed it. Here's a little tasting. This is just a pro promo tour.

1:28:44This is not like going back in the archives. This is like literally in the last seven days. Watch.

1:28:51As a black woman, as a person who's also LGBTQ, as a black woman, as a black woman, I am a black woman. I am a queer woman. I'm an immigrant. Being a black woman as a black woman myself, that is the thing that I understood as a black woman is that I meant a lot to people. because of the communities that I represented. Whether it was women of color, black women, queer community, LGBTQ community. And as a black woman, and I have my queerness too. It's like talking to Glenn. She's got her queerness. Glenn also has his queerness. He never talks about it. Fine. You know her race, by the way? Kareem Jampierre's race?

1:29:36Her race? Yeah. She never talks about it. She's very shy about it. She doesn't like attention call to it. She's Italian. You're not going to believe this. Okay. This is the great Matt Taibbi exposed to this. A few pages later, after this other part, Jean-Pierre described her feelings after Trump won re-election, saying she wasn't surprised at all because America was too racist and sexist to elect Kamala Harris. Finally, these are quotes, about 1 a.m., I tumbled into bed. When I woke up, it was over. Harris had lost. I received calls from friends who were distraught or numb with disbelief, but I wasn't surprised by the outcome.

1:30:17The truth was, I never really believed Harris could win. Well, I mean, none of us did, but she had different reasons. But I, I wasn't surprised. Okay. I never believed she could win. I'd been in the body of a black woman all my life. She's changing it. I'm not just black. I'd been in the body of a black woman, which sounds a little dirty. That sounds a little naughty, doesn't it? Sounds like something a husband would say. She doesn't have a husband because of her queerness. I stood at the podium in the White House briefing room, traveled in my chocolate skin through rural areas, and all my experiences of blistering stares and racist assumptions left me unable to see this country electing a president who looked like me.

1:31:07black women are tired are tired of being used and overlooked and taken for granted that we will take on the extra tasks at work without pay assume the lion's share of labor in our communities without fanfare and do it all without complaint

1:31:26indeed we are leaders in our cities and households matriarchs who fight for rights and policies that benefit the whole of society in 2024, the nation could have finally begun to repay what it owes us. What? And benefited itself by giving the top leadership role to Harris, who could bring the talents embodied by so many black women to the nation's highest office. That's her latest. That's basically it in a sum of substance. Her chocolate skin, she's been in the body of a black woman forever. And the reason Kamala lost is because we did not want to be in her black chocolate body. I don't know. This is lunacy.

1:32:18We knew she was dumb, but did we know she was this far gone? Truly. Go ahead. I love that in her mind, the repayment for the treatment that American blacks have received is Kamala Harris. We deserve Kamala Harris. You owe us Kamala Harris. Oh, no. Some debt. I remember Trump, during the campaign, went to speak at the Association of Black Journalists. and they brought up the historic occasion of Kamala's candidacy as a black woman. And Trump said, what? Kamala's black? I didn't know she was black. Remember that? And this was supposed to be super offensive. Like we were all supposed to be horrified, even though everybody had the same thought.

1:33:04And then what happened was CNN the next day went to like a barber shop in Philadelphia, which is like this white liberal media stereotype of where you go to talk to real black people. We call that Harris country. Yeah, exactly. country. And they walk in and there's like eight black guys sitting, you know, on chairs in the barbershop, like working class guys. And the reporter comes in, he's white, and he says, hey, Donald Trump yesterday said he doesn't think Kamala's black. Do you think Kamala's black? Of course, expecting to be like, how dare you? And they were all like, hmm. And this is the kind of idiotic politics that Democrats think the country is thinking about, that we relate to each other this way with these divisive categories.

1:33:45Everybody has to immediately declare themselves in. And this is such a degraded and primitive way of thinking about humanity and how we relate to one another and the things we care about and have in common. And also, isn't this the same country that elected Barack Obama twice? And made this idiot the White House press secretary. And made Kamala Harris, who technically is black, our vice president? Yeah. I mean, if anything, you can make the opposite argument that the people inside the black women's bodies are actually benefiting by virtue of that rather than being impeded. But it's just, I think people are just so tired of being told that we have to judge each other with constant reference.

1:34:24That's exactly right. She, she didn't get the memo, right? The fever broke with Trump's reelection and she didn't get the memo that we're done doing that shit. Like we are done obsessing over skin color, whether we're black or white or brown, whatever it does, we're done. We're done. The fevers are broken. That stuff's not going to work anymore. But it seems It seems to be what she's saying is the reason she left the Democrat Party. She's mad, allegedly, that they were too mean to Joe Biden. But she also is, the whole book is full of grievance about how the Democrats aren't good to black women.

1:34:52So she's leaving, but she's not going to, she doesn't recommend voting for any party other than Democrats. But she's going to stand outside as an independent just to shame them for how they treat black women, but still totally vote Democrat, which sounds right exactly at the intellect level that I would expect from Corrine Jean-Pierre as a strategy. I mean, I will say something controversial, Megan, but truly, if you look at the people that the Biden administration elevated to check the identity boxes, from Khantanji Brown-Jackson to Kamala Harris to Corrine Jean-Pierre, this is why people have problems with affirmative action.

1:35:28It's because you actually, when you're elevating people purely on the basis of identity, and I say that as a cis-hetero white woman, Megan. Cis-hetero. It's bad. I mean, it produces bad results. It's a disaster. And it's sadly what people now have to look back as the legacy of the Biden administration. Well, the other problem we have is that they're obsessed with their academic pedigree over on the left. We've seen that, right? Speaking of affirmative action and pedigree, Michelle Obama went to Princeton. Sheila Jackson Lee, she went to Harvard. Joy Reid went to Harvard. I mean... Don't laugh, Glenn.

1:36:12Need I say more? Joy Reid. And then there's another class of leftists that went to these schools and probably actually got in on their own merit. but they are so elitist and such snobs in their coverage. And that brings me to Rachel Maddow. So she, I mean, we could spend all night talking about what an elitist snob she is, but just this week she was talking about the White House and the renovations. Okay. And you can say a lot about the renovations and I've already read to you some of what people are saying, but listen to this one. Okay. Trump is literally destroying the people's house. He's literally physically tearing down the White House.

1:36:50And now here's my favorite part. This is right on brand for her. He took up parts of the White House lawn to put up huge flagpoles so he could fly novelty-sized American flags to make it look like it's an RV dealership. Hell yeah. That's Rachel Maddow. Like, oh, who would be caught dead at an RV dealership? and she speaks for everyone. There isn't a person consuming her show, which she does once a week, for which she makes$30 million a year still, that had any reaction to that other than, yeah, ew, gross, an RV. And that's half the problem, right? Well, and also what made it so gross in her mind was that there are so many American flags there, too.

1:37:37Like, only really tacky, lowbrow people would fly American flags. And this is the thing, like, you may, people, the ordinary people, like, who just go about their lives, like you were saying, most people are really busy. When I was a lawyer, I barely paid attention to politics, only when I had full time to kind of look at everything I said. But you don't have to know every detail, but people understand when they're being condescended to. People understand when they're being insulted, when they're being judged. And the Democratic Party, which did used to have a lot of worker class, working class representation, they were very close with unions.

1:38:08That was the kind of ethos of the Democratic Party in the middle of the 20th century. became very subconsciously and very explicitly the party of corporations, the party of Ivy League schools. And as a result, they now look down upon people in car dealerships. And most of the country feels condescended to and patronized and just spewed contempt at by liberal elites. And they're getting back what they deserve. They have created that. Yes. Let me ask you a question, because you used to go on MSNBC all the time. I was on Rachel Maddow's show all the time. I had a personal friendship with her. Has she lost her relevance?

1:38:51Well, let's remember, I just think this is so important, is that, first of all, cable news in general as a medium is dying. Yes. The number of people who watch cable news, Fox still pulls in several million people. They tend to be an older demographic. But MSNBC and CNN, I mean, they're irrelevant. You have mid-sized YouTube shows with bigger audiences than they do. And not only that, but you can imagine the only people who watch MSNBC are already drooling, rabid Democratic Party partisans. So even the people they're attracting, they're not convincing of anything. She went on every night and perpetrated a gigantic hoax.

1:39:30She ratified the Steele dossier. She thought Putin had a pee-pee tape about Trump that he was using to blackmail Trump. she was all in on all the bullshit about Russiagate like the whole hoax the whole fraud she went on a news network ostensibly every night and lied and got rewarded for it you know she said people who questioned the origin of the lab leak but it came from a lab are racist like the whole litany of lies that people made them hate the media she was kind of the avatar of and you're right she got a reward for it which was a 30 million dollar contract for lying incessantly for partisan reasons, as low as you get for a journalist.

1:40:08And honestly, I think it's possible to make a lot of money and still be in touch with regular people, but she's not on the list of people who are. I think she's just gotten so detached from reality, from how real people live, what real people care about. She's ensconced in this liberal bubble. And she's relegated herself down to this one hour a week, which I think is good, because there's not really a standard bearer over there at MSNBC now who they all revere and look up to. And, you know, it'll be interesting to see whether they can even cultivate that now, because they're starting to realize that the relevant lane is digital.

1:40:37They're starting to try to cultivate their own Joe Rogan. The irony, of course, he was of the left. He was a Bernie bro. And now they're desperate to create their own sort of presence in the digital lane. But I, for one, I applaud her downfall. And she did it to herself. She sacrificed her credibility. You know it was lies because she never owned it. She didn't ever come out and say I was wrong. Let me tell you the truth about Russiagate. She was actively lying. And she was caught. And she still insists that the conspiracy theory she proffered for years is real. I mean, she is, and actually even worse than all of that, she stole Glenn's haircut.

1:41:10She did. I'm thinking about suing her. My lawyers say I have a very good case. I mean, not for nothing in other questions. I mean, she's another person who really could stand to be more attractive. I would appreciate if she would try harder to make herself more attractive. Do you know, though, there's a photo of her, a yearbook photo. Oh, her yearbook picture. Yeah, she was blonde. She was beautiful. Yes. She has deliberately uglified herself. Yes. And there's this thing in liberal culture where it's almost like the objective is to not be attractive. Yes. They're nailing it. The attractive ones, there are still a few, very few, but a few.

1:41:43They purposely make themselves dowdier and dirtier. It's like an ethos. Let me ask you something. If you wanted to go, just say, you know, just hypothetically, on Halloween as somebody who was at a no-Kings protest, I mean, like, a certain image comes to mind. You'd have to get, like, the size 10X shirt. You'd have to get, like, a blue wig. Maybe a nose ring. Right? It's like there's certain, like, a uniform. And all I can think of is the one woman who came to the Trump White House recently on the Antifa hearings. And forgive me, I can't remember her name. but she talked about how she'd suffered from severe TDS, Trump derangement syndrome, and how somehow she managed to get herself out of it.

1:42:25And she talked about how her life got better. She said, dare I say, I even got more attractive. And there's some truth to that because when you're consumed by hatred, you know, because that's what TDS is. It's like a crazed hatred. Of course, you're going to become less attractive. You're angry all the time. You're not like effusing positivity. You're not warm when you see people in the street. You take this all on as your own personal battle. You've got to fight. He's an evil madman in the White House. At my worst of hating whatever president, I never let it consume me personally because remaining attractive was too important to me.

1:43:04Yeah. I mean, counterpoint, Rosie O'Donnell. Ned looked better. never looked better the cold sore oh you know about her cold sore right she now says she got herpes from trump that the stress of hating donald trump somehow gave her a herpes outbreak i don't think tracks i'm not sure does it sound right that's actually how you get it i have a tip for your halloween costume let me know uh oxygen tank uh walker yes i think that nails the no king look. Yes. I think this is going to be very common. We mentioned it last night and I think it is on my mind. You know very well sadly we're going to get some disgusting costumes around Charlie's murder.

1:43:58Right? Like we're already seeing that. At the No Kings rally you saw some people there was a man who had like fake blood on his face and like a fake neck wound and the freedom shirt. Yes. I mean what kind of depraved person? Right? And like it's good to laugh. It's wonderful to be together and be doing this, but we actually are suffering from a really serious problem right now in this country and it's coming from the left. No matter what they want to say, that it's both sides, it's not both sides, it's leftist violence. And people who come out and speak at these events, it's a new paradigm. You know, I'm talking about that with security in the same way that Columbine created a new paradigm where a new method of killing people was put on display and put in people heads and change sadly the way kids go to school now the the charlie assassination has done that too for public speakers and in particular for people on the right and it's not just people you know i know you're not of the right but like people like us who are in the right-wing ecosphere or in the independent ecosphere unfortunately it's for everybody you know everybody has to worry like three people at that trump rally got shot one died so it's not just it's also civilians it's not just people yeah i think if i can just like give us what i think is a little insight into this, which is, I mean, first of all, one of the main reasons I came here, people might know I live very far away.

1:45:16I live in Brazil now. There's a lot of travel is precisely because I do think, and I know you had talked about after Charlie's death, like being a little concerned. And I know any of us who do work that's polarizing, that's political, that produces anger has to think about that. Wait a minute. Are we now in a country where, you know, we had assassinations in the, in the sixties, but not very much political violence since. Are we now back to being a country or even worse being a country where even just you don't have political power you just have opinions that people dislike that you can be easily killed that it's not actually surprising anymore when that something like that happens and I think the only solution is to say we're not going to give into that fear we're going to come and be in as many places as possible and I know that's why you did your tour we're going to flood the field but I do think look The thing is, every political faction produces violence.

1:46:08And we talked about this in the 90s. There were murders of abortion doctors. People tried to blame Bill O 'Reilly because he was pointing out abortion doctors, including one who was killed. And you would think we have to be careful not to say a certain ideology inspires that. But it is nonetheless true, and this is something that came from the Trump era, is that on the left, people started insisting and then believing that not only Donald Trump, but all of his followers are fascists and white supremacists and racists and Nazis. And along with that, there was an accompanying discourse that said, it's good to kill Nazis, by which they now mean conservatives.

1:46:47And, you know, if some left-wing figure dies, you'll be able to find a few scattered people on the right, you know, making fun of it or celebrating it. But this was way more than that. This is, you know, now the predominant sentiment among a lot of people on the left, that the world is better off when conservatives die or people who like Trump die or Trump himself dies, even if they're being slaughtered in the most horrific way, a 31-year-old man or a husband, a father of two young children. They look at that and there's no humanity. There's no soul. They've been feeding on this discourse of hatred so intensively and consistently.

1:47:19Social media pours it into their head that it is scary to watch so many people, such a major part of a political movement be so dehumanized that they deny people's humanity. Down that road lies very dark things. I mean, so what do we do about that? Truly, like if you gave me a magic wand and say, you can just remake the country with this magic wand, the first thing I'd have everybody do is go to church. Get them all back to church. Get religion back into the public square in the way it was when this country was founded. But they're so lost. They don't believe in a higher power. they only believe in themselves, like the power of their own id, which is a very damaging, dangerous place to be.

1:48:00So I don't know how to reach them. You know, the right tends to be more religious, tends to be more of a group of faith, especially the modern day right versus the modern day left. How do we reach these people who are not only, let's say, born into families that are all about like transing my three-year-old because he's had made some errant comment, but TDSing them and getting them to cheer the possibility of a presidential Trump death, a president Trump death. But then they send him to schools with the likes of Lucy Martinez, Big Chungus, as Jesse called her last night, who's like the one who was pretending at the No Kings rally, like celebrating Charlie's death.

1:48:34So the whole thing is this indoctrination factory that's meant to radicalize them. How do we reach them? How are we supposed to stop that? I think one of the most powerful things, and it's a hard question, but I think one of the most powerful things is just people who aren't of that ilk, who haven't lost their minds yet, going into places, we were talking about this backstage, going into places where people have lost their minds and showing the contrast between what it looks like to be an, and Charlie was very good at this, what it looks like to be an absolutely insane person who is not coping well with reality.

1:49:12And then juxtaposed that with someone like Charlie who is a man of faith, who is normal, who is happy, who actually approached a lot of those conversations joyfully and with compassion. And that, to me, is really, really powerful, at least in my experience. Like, that, just going into those spaces so people can see light and dark. That's amazing. I mean, that's very powerful. Yes. I have to say, I also think something that we've been talking about, we talk about all the time when you guys come on the show, we talk about your own shows, and we're talking about it tonight. I have to say, I do blame, in large part, the media.

1:49:47Right? Absolutely. I really think they have unclean hands when it comes even to Charlie's death. Because what did you hear from all those No Kings protesters over the weekend? You heard Charlie was terrible. He said terrible things. He was a racist. He was a Nazi. We heard that from so many of those little clips that we played on our show and elsewhere. Where'd they get that idea from? Not from listening to Charlie. They got that idea from the media, which tried to paint him with that brush. And so I almost feel like the part of a huge part of the antidote to this madness is what we're doing now.

1:50:21It has to be a long game that we're not going to solve that overnight, even though our lane is so powerful and we're taking down the mainstream bit by bit easily with MS and CNN, but they're still there. But until they are destroyed, until they're destroyed as networks of propaganda and misinformation and our lane of truth telling and of individuals, right? Like you can go, you can get a Jesse Kelly whose show is called I'm Right, you know? He's a moderate man. Yeah, or you can get somebody who's more moderate. You can get somebody who's of the left, but has got more heterodox views like you or of the right, but more heterodox views for righty.

1:50:57And I'm sort of all over the place, but you can get that in this lane. You can get real facts. That's the only antidote to where like the disinformers are gone. Of course, I do not mean dead. I mean, off the air and no longer able to spin these lies about our people, right? Like our words will stand for themselves. They'll speak for themselves. The clips will speak for themselves. There won't be this act of manipulation and attempt to stir up hate around us all the time with very vulnerable, unwell people. Yeah, but I think that's the key is this last part. I mean, I do think, and this may sound naive, but I don't think it is, that Americans are fundamentally decent.

1:51:39I don't think people go off on this psychotic, dehumanized path on their own. And I think one of the things that has happened is, and we see this in Dishya all throughout our society, suicide rates are way up, addiction is way up, alcoholism, depression, mental health problems. And I think it's because of this spiritual disconnect. People don't have spirituality in their lives. They don't have connection. They don't have community. All the things that used to make America connected. You know, churches, religion, union halls, gatherings in small towns, these things are largely gone. We live in this very digitalized age.

1:52:15COVID exacerbated it greatly, isolated people even more. And in that, you know, without spirituality emerges nihilism. And nihilism is very easily exploited. You know, you don't have to, we always have disagreed with each other vehemently. That's America. You know, that person has terrible ideas, but we still see them as human beings. That's what's being lost. And it's a deliberate campaign to encourage people to lose their humanity. And I think there's a lot of deep-seated problems in our country that enables that kind of thing to fester. And I think it's important that we think about that as well.

1:52:48I do think, because I've heard this said on the right, I've said it as well, you know, to your point, we had a guy like that and they killed him. You know, we had a guy who went into the spots and into the spaces and said the things and was reasonable and talked to the other side and showed the example of what faith can do for you, how it can save you, how God never rejects any of his children and still believes in all of us, and they killed him. But just because Charlie was murdered does not mean all of the left wants to murder us, and it doesn't mean that they're not reachable. And I feel like we owe it to Charlie to recognize that the youth in particular who are very misguided right now, very lost, and in some cases dangerous, are gettable.

1:53:32That was his fundamental belief, that the right had ceded the fight for their hearts and minds, and that that was a mistake. And so he went in there to fight to win them, and I think we have to do the same. We have to not say, they're all crazy, they all want to kill us. No. They're gettable. They're winnable, and we have to continue reaching out to them and not demonize all of them with the same broad brush as the one we use on the Lucy Martinez's of the world. Yeah, I mean, one of the things that Charlie tapped into, and Ben Shapiro does this too, is this moral relativism has left young people starving, and they know that they're hungry.

1:54:17They know that they're starving. They know they're looking for something. and that can be directed in some really bad ways and some really good ways and they've exported so much of their lives onto the internet thanks to some really bad people who actually encouraged us to reshape our society by exporting our lives onto the internet and the incentives there are towards rage the incentives there are towards categorizing people in one direction or the other and you get sucked into part of this computer program and our politics gets sucked into it too And the more you just get off the internet and talk to normal people, the more that you realize it's okay to not categorize someone who has really what you think are really bad ideas.

1:55:00But just talk to them, talk to them about baseball, talk about something else. And it sounds so cheesy. Non-politics. Yeah, it sounds so cheesy. But, like, people are really gettable because they are starving for moral clarity. And if you can provide that, people's discontent can be channeled very productively. I just want to end with this story because I told it on the show one day but a lot of people haven't heard this

1:55:29you speaking up for what you believe in you saying the things that we've been saying tonight and that we talk about on the show and these truths that are hard truths but we all believe them, right? Like a man can't become a woman like we refuse to be boiled down to our skin color like we have way more in common than we do that separates us despite whatever our melanin is, to take a couple for an example. You just saying those things, being honest about those things, like the young woman who came up, like, yes, say what's real. Like, stand up for yourself, even though they're trying to make you play or face off against a male, will make a difference.

1:56:04And even though you might not always hear about it, you might not always know, you might feel like you're screaming into the wind, you might feel like this is causing you hatred, like people are coming to loathe you or think terrible things about you. You can think all that, but our minds tell us these negative stories. Remember this. I got an extraordinary message from someone who has not given me permission to say where he works, but it is at a very anti-Trump organization. And this person gave me a very heartfelt multiple-paragraph message about his child who was saying that they are trans and how this person of the left secretly has been listening to my show and to our guests saying what is real and what's really going on with these children and how this issue ought to be handled and what is possible and what's not possible and what's happened in the medical community with the capture and so on and so forth and has been saying to themselves, oh my God, I'm on the wrong side.

1:57:05This woman and the people who come on her show are fighting for my kid and I can't because I'm with this organization that's on the other side. I need to pay my bills and continue getting this check, but I can see and I can hear that these people who my organization demonizes for a living are in the right and are going to save my kid. And think of how brave it was for this person to say that to me, right? And I wrote them back a very long note too, but it was a reminder that even if you don't get snaps, you don't get pats on the back, some people are going to say nasty things about you on the internet, whatever, you are helping people if you stick to what's real, to what's true, whether it's your family, the truth, freedoms, or your faith, right?

1:57:58Because there is such a thing as the silent majority, And what the studies show is that if the one person in the room will stand up, raise his hand or raise her hand and say what's real, so many other people in the room feel the same. They're so glad you said the thing. So, as I said to the one woman, sit in the front row of your life. Be the person who says something. The fact that you're here shows me you can and will do it. And God bless you all for that. Thank you so much for having us, San Antonio. We love you. We hope to see you again soon. God bless you. Thank you, Emily. Thank you, Glenn.

1:58:36Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.