Hawaii Doc Gerhardt Konig's Appeal, Ebony Parker Case Dismissed - "The MK True Crime Show" with Dave Aronberg, Phil Holloway, and Ashleigh Merchant

22:59So JOA is judgment of acquittal. And it is like the greatest thing for defense lawyer because it means - Oh, it is. Right? Jury, you go home. We're not going to let you hear it. But the standard, it's really hard and it's rare. You got to show you that the state didn't even put it on what's called a prima facie case, which means it doesn't, you didn't, like what you presented, even if it's true, doesn't convict someone. Like there's no crime here. And so it's rare. Judges don't like to take the decision-making out of the jury's hands. And when it happens, it's humiliating for prosecutors. And I saw, Ashley, you laugh because you've been there before, huh?

23:36You've I have. Yeah, I have. It is humiliating for prosecutors. I mean, it's one of those things. In this case, you know, the judge said, I don't see a legal basis for the charges. So the prosecution has done all this and the judge is saying, you were wrong. I mean, that's pretty bad. We did have a question from our producer, which I thought was a great question I wanted to bring up. She asked, shouldn't that issue have been raised before the trial started? And isn't this something the defense should have moved for pretrial to dismiss it? And I can tell you that that is typically a really strong strategy decision.

24:07And there is a huge strategy between waiting until trial. And it is two words, double jeopardy. If you get a case dismissed pre-trial without prejudice, then the state can rebring the case. And it is very hard to do that. It's very hard to get a case dismissed on double jeopardy grounds if the judge dismissed it pre-trial. Because guess what? Jeopardy never attached. Jeopardy attaches when a witness takes the stand or a jury is sworn in. That's when Jeopardy attaches. So if you have a judge dismissing a case pretrial, there's no double Jeopardy grounds. So most defense lawyers are going to want to wait until Jeopardy has actually attached, which is when that witness is sworn in in a bench trial or the jury is sworn in in a jury trial.

24:48So I did want to answer our question on that. It's a great answer. Thank you for answering. And I want to also give kudos to our producer, Michelle, for another great question. Like, what is she doing in media? Maybe she should be a lawyer, Michelle. I know. I was like, these are great questions. This is what people want to know about. I love this. Yeah, very impressed. I cannot wait, by the way, to talk about the Shavilla case. I watched the Netflix documentary. It was actually assigned to us by our producer. I think Michelle required us to watch it. And man, it was good. It was so good. Yeah.

25:19Netflix is not a sponsor of the show yet, but man, that was a good documentary. And we're going to be talking about it after the break. Oh, my goodness. So next, behavioral scientist and host of the I Don't Belong Here show on YouTube, Samantha Benigno joins us to discuss Hell on Wheels killer Mackenzie Shirela, or as they call her killer Shirela. Stay tuned. Let's be real. Between recording episodes, chasing fur babies, running errands and trying to squeeze in a workout, the last thing I want to do is to pile the whole family in a car and waste a perfectly good Saturday in some big box store just to look at window treatments.

26:01Who wants to do that? There's a much better way. Three-day blinds, the leading manufacturer of high-quality custom window treatments in the U.S. Their local professionally trained design consultants give a free, no obligation quote the same day. Not handy? Same here. They handle every step. Design, precise measuring, and professional installation. Their Instagram is full of gorgeous inspiration pics, and their smart motorized options connect right to Alexa. Total game changer. Right now, get quality window treatments that fit your budget with 3DayBilds. Head to 3dayblinds.com for their buy one, get one, 50 % off deal on custom blinds, shades, shutters, and drapery.

26:51For free, no charge, no obligation consultation, just head to 3dayblinds.com. One last time. That's buy one, get one, 50 % off when you head to the number three, D-A-Y blinds.com slash MK. Welcome back to the MK True Crime Show. Joining us now is behavioral scientist and host of the I Don't Belong Here show on YouTube, Samantha Beningo. Welcome, Samantha. Thanks for having us. Thanks for being with me. Yes, thank you. So, Samantha, you, along with us here at MK True Crime, have been revisiting the Mackenzie Shrilla story after the release of the Netflix's newest documentary, The Crash. So just in case our audience hasn't watched the documentary yet, let's show the trailer before we get into it.

27:46This is the worst crash I've ever seen. Three occupants, 17-year-old female still breathing. A car crash claimed to two young lives and they entered a third early yesterday morning. This is the best friend group that I've ever had in my life.

28:03Dave Aronberg:We had just graduated high school. Mackenzie, Priscilla. Hi, T. Dom and Kenzie. I love you, baby. They're such a duo. I was Davion's best friend. And we are going to be unstoppable.

28:21Dave Aronberg:That split second changed all of our lives forever.

28:32It didn't add up. It was hard to comprehend that she could just drive into a wall.

28:41Dave Aronberg:I would never see her purposely wanting to hurt them. This was clearly a toxic relationship. we needed to get a full picture of who Mackenzie Shirrilla was. You can go f*** yourself. The most significant piece of evidence. There was no breaking. This was not an accident.

29:15What took place inside that car?

29:22I think that's the million-dollar question, but just to catch everyone up, 17-year-old Mackenzie Schrella, she drove into a brick building at almost 100 miles per hour, killing two passengers, her boyfriend, Dominic Russo, Dom, and also a friend, Davion Flanagan, who one was 20 and one was 19. She went to trial. She waived her jury trial and had a bench trial, and the judge found her guilty on numerous charges, including two counts of aggravated vehicular homicide. The judge, and we'll listen in just a minute, the judge highlighted that she didn't believe the act was reckless, but she thought it was a mission of death.

29:56So let's listen to the portions of her ruling while we show the video of the moments before the crash.

30:02Dave Aronberg:She morphs from a responsible driver to literal hell on wheels as she makes her way down the street. Mackenzie alone made the decision to drive the car, to drive an obscure route, a route she visited a few days before. She had a mission, and she executed it with precision. The mission was death.

30:26So Samantha, I mean, I watched it. I actually watched it. It was riveting. And let's just say that the defendant here, Ms. Cirilla, does not come across very sympathetically. But the only people who seem to come across worse are her parents, especially her father. So I have so many questions for you because you're an expert on this matter. Just what do you first off, what do you think happened? I mean, in my mind, it was she and her boyfriend got in another fight and she went crazy and had a death wish. Because I can't imagine that she tried to kill them without knowing that it would be likely that she would die, too.

31:02So is that what you think happened or something else? Yeah, I mean, so Mackenzie, from a clinical perspective, has what we know to be a borderline personality disorder. And it's pretty obvious, self-evidence. and so while yes she absolutely in my opinion was in a rage I think it was facilitated by fears of losing Dominic but also anger that was overwhelming her that morning because of Davion as well which is another conversation that most people haven't really touched upon yet but also McKenzie was an avid marijuana smoker. And while most of us think it's a pretty harmless drug, for a person with this underlying personality disposition and the amount that she had been smoking, my guess is she was in a form of withdrawal because she had stopped within 24 hours of the accident.

32:05So I think it was, yes, what you're saying, but there's more to it than that. that's interesting so when we saw at the end of the documentary for those who haven't seen it yet you know mackenzie is is interviewed and it becomes clear at the very end that she's got a lawyer in the room you don't see the lawyer but the lawyer's back in the in the corner and i can't help but think that the lawyer was there and you know drug there and didn't want to be there but you see her turn back to him or her and you know make sure that she did a good job she says i just want to make sure that i'm big on the no intent there is no intent whatsoever and i have excessive amounts of remorse and it's not intentional and I'll do everything I can to prove that.

32:44It's almost like that's sort of scripted. You know, I know that you've said in your analysis before that you believe that she was acutely aware of the public sentiment about her and that she's doing the documentary because she doesn't want people to think she's a monster. Is that, you know, that section where she's looking back to her lawyer and making sure that everything, she did everything okay and I did okay. Is that what your reaction is to that moment? And, you know, you have to also understand that the Shirrilla parents, her parents, do not allow Mackenzie to take responsibility for herself.

33:17And, you know, most of my career, I've worked with young adults and adolescents and a lot of families and a lot of parents. Most parents want you to help their child to learn to take responsibility. That's what they're asking of you as a clinical professional. Mackenzie's family does exactly the opposite. they will not allow her to be responsible for anything she says or does. Because this, you know, from my view, this was predictable. This accident could have been avoided long before. And she was on a very predictable course that was bound to end this way or in a similar way. Yeah, Dave and I were talking about that at a break.

33:59I mean, I have an 18-year-old that just graduated high school. and I was immediately, both of us agreed, I mean, the parent, what the hell, you know, what are the parents doing? I mean, yeah, like what, I mean, what's, yeah, what's wrong? So you've done a linguistics analysis of, you know, of the parents. Can you tell us about that? Oh, yeah. I mean, you know, when you have somebody who starts threatening suicide the way that Mackenzie did, going back to, certainly we know freshman, sophomore year in high school, probably middle school, these tantrums, these anger outbursts, rage outbursts, really.

34:36And she would threaten suicide. That was the go-to threat. Now, when you have a child that's go-to threat suicide, you start to learn as a parent to get into a pattern of just appease them. You don't want to make them feel bad about themselves. And that pattern of appeasing and lack never allowing her to take responsibility. I mean, this is the inevitable outcome when you have a borderline personality disorder and a child who was in the midst of a pretty severe substance use abuse episode, right, for many years. So interesting, because I thought the best argument from the defense lawyer in court was she had to know if she did this on purpose, she would kill herself.

35:19And yet there's no indication she ever was suicidal. In fact, her best friend said she loved life. She was like a narcissist and she would never try to kill herself. But what you bring up is so important. It turns out she has repeatedly threatened suicide. So that's an important piece of information here. Yeah, for years and years. She also would talk to Dom. I mean, I've listened to hundreds of hours at this point of everybody and everything read thousands of text messages between her and Dom. She would repeatedly talk about how much she hates herself, threatened Dom with hurting herself. I mean, routinely had become a normal part of their interaction.

35:58Everybody that knew her knew that this was a part of how she was. All of her friends, everybody that knew her knew. Oh, so her best friend is a liar? Because I thought it was also very important that the lawyer, the prosecutor, said on camera, said, oh, you have spoken to the best friend? I haven't. She won't return my calls. What did she say? I would have loved to have talked to her. So she looks bad, too, then. Well, you have to remember, Rosie is an influencer. her. She has a lot of followers, I believe, either on TikTok or Instagram. I don't remember which. So she has her own personal investment in, I want to say, looking good, coming out in a way that looks better for her.

36:42And that then also means no intent on the part of her really good friend, Mackenzie. That's interesting. When you said the thing about her trying to commit suicide, because I'm like, Dave, when I saw the documentary, I immediately thought, well, either she did it or she was trying to kill herself. And, you know, if she was trying to kill herself, why didn't they use that as a defense? Because that's a, I mean, that's a plausible defense. You know, she could have a mental health defense. And what you're saying about the parents, as soon as I just heard you say that, I'm like, oh my gosh, that totally clicks.

37:12Because I know as a defense lawyer, a lot of times we're stuck by what our clients want us to do. And if the parents and, you know, Mackenzie, a lot with the parents because of her age, you know, did not want that defense, did not want a mental health defense put forward, which happens a lot. I mean, most of the public thinks that everybody wants to get off by not guilty by reason of insanity, but it's actually more often than not that clients forbid us from presenting that defense because they don't want to go to a, you know, a mental institute because you could essentially be locked up for longer.

37:40And it seems like the parents thought that she was innocent. And so they probably thought she was coming home, didn't want to use this mental health defense because she could end up spending the rest of her life in a mental institute. I mean, that's kind of what it sounds like. Maybe the dynamics behind, you know, all this with the parents. I mean, do you agree with that? Do you think that's plausible? Yeah, a couple of things, too. So one of the symptoms of borderline is disassociation. So it's sort of like a sense of unreality, like I'm not embodied. So if you think about the suicidal intent, I don't think that Mackenzie actually understood.

38:16Really, this is how dangerous it is to protect your child from not taking responsibility from themselves, then they don't understand, you know, yeah, I'm about to drive this car into a wall, but there's not going to be a consequence. We're all just going to get up and walk out of it tomorrow and we're going to go about our lives, right? Like, I don't think Mackenzie understood at that moment that it was the end. I really don't. Even though I agree that she did it on purpose, knowing that she could lose her life. Yeah. And you asked another question, and I don't remember what it was right now. What was the second question?

38:51No, that was it. You answered it. That was fascinating. Samantha, you brought up Davion earlier, and that's another loose end here, because what a tragedy. He was not the boyfriend. He was in the backseat of the car, apparently, and just an innocent victim of this awful individual. What's your take? How does he play into this? You were alluding to it, how it's a whole other matter here. Yeah. So it's really interesting when I did the in-depth statement analysis of Mackenzie, I expected him to be, you know, like everyone described, cargo in the backseat. But she had very distinct feelings for him.

39:26She that morning, she was angry with him. Now, I can't entirely discern whether he had been living at the house at this time or not, but it appears to me that on that morning, what most likely happened was Mackenzie wanted to be alone with Dom and was irritated by Davion being there, by his presence, feeling like when he was with Dom, Dom's attention was going to be on Davion and not on Mackenzie. And that is how petty Mackenzie is, right? Like she wanted all of Dom's attention all the time and felt like if Davion was there, that would mean she wasn't going to get it. And so there was definite anger specifically targeted at Davion on that morning from her statement.

40:18Wow. Wow. So I want to talk a little bit about her life in prison. So apparently she's had a girlfriend in prison, but her girlfriend, they've now broken up. Does it surprise you at all, your analysis of her, that she would be building these types of relationships behind bars? No, no, no. I mean, she's going to have many of these types of relationships, you know, until she can find one that ultimately she can hold hostage, you know. And I hate to say it that way because it sounds, but that is what it is. I mean, the feeling, you know, I think, unfortunately, Dom was empathic. He was a sweet guy.

40:55And he, you know, he was being held hostage by McKenzie. Yeah. Well, Samantha, Ashley and I were talking off air. Ashley made a very astute observation. She saw a scale at Dom's house and noted that Dom didn't really have any way, any job, although they said he was a crypto trader and he bought McKenzie a lot of gifts and he was living pretty well. Was he a drug dealer? Yeah. Of course. Yeah. I mean, I mean, you know, to me, I think he obviously was there was scales in the car. But I think he had a lot of aspirations. He was very stressed about money, actually, in the months just before this. You know, so he felt like he needs to take care of his family members, his very, very close family, the Russo family.

41:40So, you know, I think he felt the weight of other people's pain and suffering in a very real way. and that's how Mackenzie kind of got her claws in him. He wanted to help her. I mean, he tried to get her to go to a therapist. He tried to even say, let's go together. We'll go together to get help. I mean, he knew more than I think anyone what the deal was with her. It was really interesting to see. Yeah, if I could follow up on that. Also, Ashley and I were a little surprised that any parent would allow their 17-year-old daughter to live with a 20-year-old drug dealer. I mean, she was still in high school at the time.

42:18And so she leaves the house while she's 17 to live with her older boyfriend who's a drug dealer. Is that something that struck you as unusual? You know, when you, I mean, her parents were buying her alcohol. They were giving her money for drugs. Anything they could do to keep her from escalating. Like the police had been there because of her tantrums when she was a sophomore in high school. You know, her tantrums were so extreme. She'd break stuff. I'm going to kill myself. Like she was so out of control, so reckless, so intense that I think her family just learned, like, give her whatever she wants, try to keep the peace.

42:56And they saw Dom as, you know, like he loved her. He really did try to take care of her. I don't think anybody understood the ins and outs of that relationship, but I'm sure the family was also just happy to not have her in their crosshairs day in and day out. Right. To have her with somebody they trusted and, And, you know, didn't have to, you know, didn't have to be worrying about her night and day. Having said that, though, I'm not so sure she was living there. So I know we've heard that. But based on the language, it seems like she had stayed there quite a bit. But that whether she was actually living there at the time is, you know, she wasn't actually technically living there.

43:39That's how I would say it. Interesting. So she told, so that, you know, she's had prison girlfriends and things like that. And she's told different inmates, different things. She's told some that the crash happened because she was high on mushrooms. And then she told Cheyenne, her ex, that it was because of POTS. And we saw in the documentary, her mom saying it was because of POTS, you know, this nervous system disorder that causes dizziness, fatigue, things like that. And apparently she was diagnosed with that. Do you think she really believed that it was about POTS? Or do you think she even knows what she's talking about at this point?

44:08Mackenzie? Yeah. Yeah. No, Mackenzie knows exactly. Mackenzie knows what happened. You think she's trying to create this narrative there with pots like that? She knows it's a lie. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, in the very first moments, you know, they have this gypsy language that her and her mom will speak. Right. And the very first moments after the police show up to talk to her and they're speaking in this gypsy language and she says, can I just tell them I had a seizure? You know, so that was from the jump what the plan was. And they took it and ran with it. You know, the way that amnesia works, it's not unusual to have amnesia from a crash, but you don't get amnesia in such a way where you remember everything up through to the turn and then everything immediately following the accident, but not the four seconds between the turn and hitting the wall, right?

45:02I mean, it's just, it's silliness is what it is. yeah what do you think about that use of gibberish what what's wrong with this family i mean and and has the family had any accountability repercussion responsibility i mean have they have they been in any trouble for being just delinquent parents here i mean what's going on with these folks i think it's surprising to them i really i mean you know mom is interesting she's a fascinating character sometimes she just says things to mckenzie to try to appease her that she doesn't believe. And again, this is from listening to hours and hours of their jail calls.

45:40Other times, you know, she does seem to feed into the narrative that, you know, it's not her fault. I mean, they still blame the accident, to be very clear, on the Russo family. It's all them. They own the judicial system. You know, they were somehow secretly related to the judge. It's all a big conspiracy. I mean, this is the narrative that mom is sort of feeding Mackenzie. So, So, you know, this is, they, I think mom is a little delusional herself, is really hoping that she can start like a free Mackenzie movement. You know, I don't think they have anybody telling them the truth, frankly. Oh my gosh.

46:20Well, yeah. And there's, you know, some of the jail calls have actually been released. I know we've got one we can play in a minute, SOT9, but, you know, it's between Mackenzie and her mom and they were recorded and they're, it's just, it's kind of disturbing if we could play SOT9. And then I'm really curious, you know, how you think that fits into all of this.

46:35Dave Aronberg:So wait, it's all over the world now that today's show is like national news? Okay, I got to tell you one more thing. What? It was published in England. What? Yeah. It's world news? I think the Daily Mail just publishes it in all the publications, but yeah, the UK. It's on the Daily Mail? In UK. Maybe Kim Kardashian will reach out herself. That's what I'm saying. I would understand if they gave me a normal charge, but the charges that they gave me are literally insane. It's not. They're trying to make it seem something that it's not. It's not. I didn't do this on purpose. I got in a car accident.

47:18Dave Aronberg:I'm a third victim.

47:23That's so painful to hear that for the families who have to endure that. And I felt bad. I know I talk about Don being a drug dealer, but no one deserves that fate. That was just awful. and his parents seem like good people, unlike the Sherellas. His father and his sister seem like good people. And the most of it that I thought were Davion's father, his parents. His father was so compelling, and his sister, unbelievable. Do you think that all this, the fact that we're so outraged on the outside by who she is and how, with the lack of remorse she has, Do you think that that's going to prevent her from getting parole in 15 years?

48:05I think it depends on what happens along the way, right? I mean, the thing about this type of mental health problem is that she could get better. I mean, you know, if she had one strong, positive influence in her life, you know, she could get better. the challenge is that mom, from what I can tell in these jail calls, really prevents her from ever changing or shifting the narrative. Like they are just totally focused on trying to get her out. You're trying to get her out of prison. Yeah. Not trying to get her through it or have her learn. I want to talk about that in the time we got left. We have a few minutes left, but apparently this, this, and we're not calling, you know, Dom names or anything like that.

48:48We're certainly not trying to disparage, but I think it's relevant to the facts of the case and to their relationship. It appears that Dom always had Mackenzie actually hold her drugs when she was a minor. We've got a thought on that, thought 11, and then I want to talk to you about some of the other things that sort of go along with that.

49:05Dave Aronberg:Yeah, like the only charge that like, I think that like, I shouldn't even be charged with it though, like, because it was Dom, but like, I understand to have to take that fucking bullshit, the fucking drugs. Oh, yep. That's irritating as fuck. And he should have known better, too, and that makes me mad. I'm mad at him for that, telling you that you can't get in trouble for just to hold everything. He always told me that. He always had me hold everything. I know. That's because you were a minor. So, yeah, there's multiple texts also that have surfaced that apparently her parents, Mackenzie's parents, were well aware, and they weren't apparently concerned with this drug use, her alcohol use.

49:41I mean, if you looked at her social media, you could see it. So she's 17. She's living with an adult male. And if we do the math right, when they started dating, because they'd been dating for four years, she would have been 13 and he would have been 16. So how do you think that that situation was allowed to develop with the Shrillas knowing that their minor daughter was engaged in all these activities? I mean, dangerous activities with apparently no pushback at all. you know this is just this is insane to me I mean how do you think that factored into all of this you know everything that's happened you know when they tried you know so for example there was an incident where they tried to ground Mackenzie when she was a sophomore and the police wound up at their house because she was breaking things and screaming and you can't do this to me I mean just a complete, you know, tantrum.

50:33You know, you add suicidal threats, that ends any debate pretty fast. They just wanted to try to get her through it, to try to appease her. You know, you can even hear it in these calls with mom. As soon as Mackenzie escalates, she tries to say anything she can to like bring her, she calls it anxiety. Mom calls her tantrums, anxiety, down a notch. And so what do you do in that situation? As a professional, those are moments that you know you don't feed that. I mean, you don't appease it because that's what will cause it to get reinforced and then grow, but they didn't get help. And I think she was just really, truly out of control.

51:21I mean, she was really a monster. And I hate to say that, right? As a mental health professionals especially i don't like using that language but she was really out of control fighting with neighbors with teachers with other students uh you know just a maniac bus drivers um right so and then why so why did judge go so easy on her it's a great question you know i think because 17 she's young right i think that's why the monster so young i know Yeah, but she's 17. Okay. I don't know. I think that's what it was. I think she's young. You don't think that might get into it, Dave? She's young. That's fine.

52:01Okay. Yeah. She certainly didn't accept responsibility, so it wasn't that. It's got to be her age. I mean, I think that's the only thing. It's got to be her age. Yes. I mean, she's 17. Her brain's not formed. Right. Yeah, yeah. Well, thank you so much, Samantha. Where can our listeners find you? Yeah, you can find me on my YouTube page at IDBH, true crime. Really easy to find me. Awesome. Well, thank you so much. Look forward to having you again. So up next, we've got your questions and our closing arguments. Stay tuned. When there are supply constraints on commodities, prices surge. You saw it with full prices when the Strait of Hormuz was blockaded.

52:41And you know what else is a limited commodity? Gold. They mine it out of the ground. And when it's gone, it's gone. Governments can't just print more of it, and that's why everyone from central banks to savvy savers are diversified with gold. If you've been thinking about it for years but have still never moved some of your savings into physical gold, Birch Gold Group is who I trust to help you. Now through May 29th, Birch Gold is giving first-time gold buyers a rebate of up to$10 ,000 on qualifying purchases. For details and an information kit on diversifying into gold, Text MK to the number 989898.

53:19Birch Gold can help you convert an existing IRA or 401k into a tax-sheltered IRA in physical gold. So text MK to the number 989898 to see if you qualify for a first-time gold buyer rebate of up to$10 ,000. Again, text MK to 989898 today. Welcome back to the MK True Crime Show. Now it's time for our closing arguments. Dave, take it away. Thank you, Ashley. And for my closing statement, I want to add a postscript to the Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni case. That settled before the world could gawk at the latest embarrassing celebrity trial. Eight figures in legal fees later, they settled for exactly zero dollars.

54:08They even put out a joint statement claiming the whole multi-million dollar spectacle was actually about raising awareness, whatever that means. Talk about an expensive public relations campaign. Now, you may think that a walkaway settlement means nobody won, but you'd be wrong. One side absolutely dominated this case. The lawyers combined, the legal teams raked in about$60 million, which is even more than true crime podcasters make per episode, right? I kid. So what is the true crime lesson learned from all this? Well, it's simple. Litigation is a precise, serious legal instrument, not a branding exercise.

54:56If you are going to file a lawsuit, you need a legitimate, viable, legal objective and a clear exit strategy. Otherwise, you're just launching a multimillion dollar fool's errand that serves no one but the billable hour. Courtrooms are meant for achieving real justice, not funding your attorney's next luxury yacht. But if you do have a legitimate case, it's going to end up enriching some lawyers anyways. you can reach Ashley or me right here at MK True Crime. We'll be waiting for your call. Oh, I love it. I can't wait to get the call, Dave. Well, I want to talk about one of the craziest cases of judicial misconduct that I've heard in quite a long time.

55:43I wouldn't say my lifetime, but quite a long time. So recently in September of 2025, the chief judge of the Northern District of Georgia, and what is the Northern District of Georgia, that's the federal circuit that's here in Atlanta, got a complaint about a federal judge out of none other than everyone's favorite Fulton County, Georgia. And the complaint alleged that the subject judge, I'm going to call her the subject judge, and I just said, oopsies, her, I'll tell you who it is at the end, but that the subject judge had an extramarital affair with a law enforcement officer, a uniformed law enforcement officer, and that they had sex in and out of her office during work hours within distance of the judge's law clerks.

56:22So, you know, the judge's law clerks typically are either law students or recently graduated law students, you know, young, impressionable people excited to work for a federal judge. It's a prestigious gig, sitting out there doing their business and apparently hearing moans and kissing and hissing and different things like that while they're trying to do their work. Couldn't focus, saw this going on, you know, while the judge is supposed to be working, while we're paying for the judge to be working. And so one of those law clerks had the guts to file a complaint. And so they filed the complaint.

56:54And what happens was it goes to the chief judge. So that judge sends it to the chief judge of the 11th circuit. What's the 11th circuit? It is literally one step down from the Supreme Court. The circuit courts of appeal are one step below the Supreme Court of the United States. So pretty high up. Sends it to the chief judge for the 11th circuit known as Judge Pryor. Now, Judge Pryor asks the subject judge, again, the judge accused of this, ask that judge for a response, says, you know, these are the allegations. Did you have this affair with this law enforcement officer? You know, yada, yada. And she denies it.

57:32So this judge flat out denies it. Because she denied it, Judge Pryor did what he had to do. He appointed a special committee to investigate the complaint. So that special committee then had to retain counsel. So we had to pay as taxpayers. We had to pay for counsel to be retained to assist in this investigation. This investigation where the judge flat out, as we'll learn in a minute, lied to the chief judge of the 11th Circuit of the United States Court of Appeals. So this special committee did their investigation. And guess what? They corroborated the allegations. The judge was busted. The special committee said, we know what happened.

58:10and here's our facts. What's your response? So the judge had already had one chance at responding and said, no, no, no, it's all a lie. It's all a lie. So this time the judge says, oh, I'm going to recant my denial and I'm going to admit to the affair. So she admits to having this affair with this law enforcement officer in her office during working hours. She recanted her lie. She also admitted another violation, that she had attended a partisan political event. Now, for those that don't know, our federal judges are appointed for life. They don't have elections. They are appointed for the rest of their life.

58:46They have to go through Senate appointment. It's a big deal. And because of that, they're never allowed to participate in anything political. They have to be apolitical for the rest of their life. So one of the things they definitely can't do while sitting federal judge is attend a partisan political event. But again, this is Fulton County. So, you know, judge goes. Judge goes. Judge knows the rules. Judge knows you can't go to a party, a political party event. Judge knows that. And if the judge didn't know it, that's scarier, I think. If the judge was too dumb to actually know she can't break the rules like that, that's a little terrifying for a federal judge.

59:22But either way, either she knew or she didn't know. I don't know which one's worse. But so the subject judge was then accused of the misconduct for the affair in chambers, attending a political event, and guess what? A new charge, making a false statement to, among others, the chief justice of the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals. The subject judge submitted a response saying that the allegations were outrageous, they're baseless, and specifically denied the allegations. She even accused that poor little law clerk of making them up as retaliation. That law clerk apparently heard a judge say that she was going home one day because she had had too many martinis the night before at a primary election victory party for a district attorney.

1:00:09The law clerks were mortified. The law clerks did not know what to do. They decided, again, to allege this violation and this special committee did an investigation. Well, who is a local district attorney that had a primary election and really likes Gregory's Martinis? This is Fulton County. Don't forget. So the subject judge gets a lawyer. She responds yet again. Now she's admitted again, having the affair. We're back to admitting having the affair. But on to the DA. She says, well, I've been friends with this DA since 1999. And I just went to a mixer for the DA, you know, a mixer that was before the political event.

1:00:52There just happened to be big campaign event signs and celebrations and things like that. And when she was caught on this, she again says, I didn't do anything wrong. Nothing. It was just private mixer. But someone caught a picture of her with her martini glass that she says did not have vodka in it. And that picture speaks a thousand words. She is standing behind none other than Nathan Wade at Fonnie Willis's election event. What happens to this judge, you might wonder? After all of this, the judge admitted, admitted to this word that she had absolute dishonesty, but she asked the committee to take into account her prompt recantation of the false statements.

1:01:38So her excuse was, I lied, but I said I lied really fast. So this is like being a bank robber, getting caught on camera, and then saying, oh, I confess. So since you saw the surveillance videos now, I'm busted. I confess. Please let me off. Well, the special committee did find that her false statements were actually material and that they were harmful to the administration of the courts. What happened to this judge, you might wonder? What was the punishment for lying during a judicial misconduct investigation, accusing a law clerk of fabricating allegations, having sex in chambers during work hours, an extramarital affair nonetheless, attending political partisan events, and compromising public integrity, public confidence in the judiciary?

1:02:20A private reprimand. A private reprimand. Again, none other than Fonnie Willis and a federal judge sitting here in Fulton County. And if you want to see the picture and you want to read the complaint, I posted it on my Twitter account so that you can read it. It is all over the internet and it is just as shocking as you can imagine. So that's my rant for today. I'm sorry I went on a little bit long, but I want to thank our guest, Samantha Benigo, and to my co-host, Dave Ehrenberg. And thank you all for joining us. Dave and Phil and I are going to be at CrimeCon this weekend, so we hope that we'll get to see a lot of our listeners there.

1:02:59But everyone else, have a great week.