Hayden Panettiere's Death and Her Hollywood Enablers, with Rob Shuter, and Jason Arday Exposed Before His Demise | Ep. 1380

29:49And so she came to my trailer during lunch when we were filming Heroes. And I said to her, I don't want us to work together anymore. I just want you to be my mom. And I remember being hopeful, but there was that part of me who knew her too well. But I also wasn't expecting the reaction that I got, which was, you owe me. And that's all she said. Oh, oh my God. You owe me. I mean, the pathology, Rob. Yeah. It's like, again, the miracle is that she survived age 36. It's a miracle. A mother like that. And the mother, the real mother stepping in was Hollywood. Right. You're doomed. Right. Right. It's so shocking to me.

30:37I think if you'd ask the mother, you can have one role, be my mother or my business manager, she would have picked business manager. This is a lot of money that these young people earn, often from families that were not terribly wealthy. When I worked with Jessica Simpson, her dad, who was a preacher, suddenly became her manager. And the other thing too about this is they're terrible managers because they don't have any of those skills. You want a really good manager. Anybody that runs their own business, anybody that works in an organisation knows how important it is to have a real manager. And so when these stars, when they hire their moms, their dads, their brothers, their sisters, their husbands, their wives.

31:16It is such a disservice to their career. So the mother here believes Hayden owes her entire career to the manager. I would argue that if Hayden had had a real manager, a manager that could set her up, a manager that could teach her how to save money, a manager that could teach her how to invest, we might have a very different story that we're telling today. Joe Simpson was a terrible, terrible manager. And Jessica, ultimately Jessica Simpson, needed to own that. But by the time they got the courage to tell their parent, no, the damage is done. When you look at these big superstars, really successful people, they have great teams around them.

31:58They have great managers. They have great lawyers. You're only as good as your team. And Hayden was better. She was better than her team. She was talented. She was smart. She's a good actress. And she could have had a very different career had she had better representation. and that representation was unfortunately her mom. There she is in a picture we just put on the board with her mom, dad and her younger brother, Jaden, who also died. He died a couple of years ago at age 28. And they said that it was of a congenital heart defect that no one knew about until he was pushing 30. But he too, she said, had substance abuse problems.

32:39I mean, it just seems to me that these parents were out to lunch at every turn. You know, you have two kids and both of them develop serious substance abuse problems. And now one dies possibly from that issue. And I'm sorry, but if you have a congenital heart defect and you're engaging in substance abuse, you're setting yourself up for a catastrophic ending. Again, he didn't die technically of drugs, but it's just an ultimate parenting fail. And it's very hard to recover from that or to become a good mother after all that. And the postpartum thing, she talked about it pretty bravely because you know, you're gonna talk about that.

33:22People are gonna judge you, you know, because we all say like a mother should love her kids. Well, it's more complicated than that. It is. I have not a lot of empathy for this woman on trial right now for killing her three kids, but I recognize postpartum depression as a very real thing. A lot of mothers have had it. And here she is back in 2022, in connection with a Good Morning America story, talking about that and what she went through. Where did you turn to for support? The bottle, the bottom of the bottle. I didn't have any negative feelings towards my child. I just knew I was deeply depressed and I didn't know where, you know the alcoholism was ending and postpartum was beginning and and I ran myself pretty ragged I felt like I was walking blind and there was nobody there that was really able to support me in the way that I needed to be supported and I don't like to ask for help either you know I want to be that strong stoic woman but I mean when you see a happy-go-lucky girl for years suddenly on the floor in a puddle of mess and alcohol, you got to know something's wrong.

34:40Rob, she said no one was there to help her. And I believe that thoroughly, right? It's like, what Hollywood is like a different version of media. It really is. In so many ways, I see so many similarities where there are very few actual friendships. There are lots of like, like, you know, fake friendships where you're patting each other on the back or your interests are aligned and you're making that work. But at this point in my career, I have learned that most of those relationships are not true friendships. There are exceptions to the rule. Maureen is one of them. God love her. The best. But there's just a ton of people who are users.

35:21I'm just going to say it. And I'm sure she's telling the truth that when her life imploded, and she looked around. She's got her business manager mother who really isn't interested unless she's getting paid and all of these fake Hollywood friends who probably had no interest because her star was on the wane. She was on Heroes from 2006 to 2010. She was on Nashville from 2012 to 2018. But everything after 2018, Rob, it's, you know, what have you done for me lately? What are you starring in now? Yeah, it's a brutal, brutal business. Part of it is the way that the business is set up itself. You work on a movie for six weeks and then you leave.

36:01When you have a job, what I call a regular job, you see the same people for years after years. I built real friendship working in offices, in newsrooms, where we all got tea together or coffee together each day and we were in those rooms for months and months, years and years. Show business is not like that. Most movies you are on set for just a very short period of time and then after that you never see those co-workers ever again. And also, too, it's very much a town. I think it's not just Hollywood, but success is when everybody wants to be your friend. And she had success. It didn't last for very long.

36:38But while she had success, she knew what it was like to have everybody calling her, everybody praising her, everybody wanting to be her best friend. So she had tasted it, which I think is actually more dangerous than never have tasting it at all. And when the success went away, there was nobody else left around her. She didn't have many friends. She didn't have many contacts. She didn't have much family support at all. She had a brother, and that's why she was so devastated when her brother died. He was her ally in this toxic, disgusting family that she grew up in. And so she was just set up for failure.

37:18I don't know how this story could have ended any other way, Megan. Like, you asked me at the top of the show. I'm shocked, but I'm not surprised. And that's what's so heartbreaking. And it's not going to be the last time this happens. We're going to see this happen again and again and again until really big changes are made in Hollywood. And that won't happen because the money is what drives that business. the um book launch led to her public telling of some other shocking stories from when she was in the business and coming up and including one where she said she was 18 years old and on a yacht and that there was a woman who she did not name who brought her down below deck and said i want you to get in bed with him and there was a man who she described as a british singer songwriter in bed and she did it.

38:17She got into bed with him and said she, she almost had a disassociative moment where she'd been so used to just doing what these grownups told her to do and behaving as instructed that she did it. And, you know, it was a, a, a peek under the sheets into how Hollywood works. There was speculation about who the woman was, but never any confirmation. Then she also told a story about this Oscar winner who exposed himself to her. She explained that she was 19, so this is a year after the yacht incident. She said the actor and director showed his genitals to her at a private party, reading here from a Daily Mail report, organized by the same friend who had invited her to the yacht.

39:04she was chatting with a group of men in their 40s and 50s at the party when she sensed these men's eyes on her and said it quote made me uncomfortable she felt like a young commodity ripe for the picking in that moment and decided to leave when one of the men approached her as she was putting on her coat she said the man whom she did not identify claimed to have a big wad of gum on his pants but she wrote i looked down and recoiled this well-respected award-winning actress testicles were hanging out from his unzipped fly. She did not tell her friend about the incident because she believed the moment had passed and assumed some older men had just grown up with no manners.

39:45The fact, Rob, that she didn't tell the friend and that she just kind of shrugged it off as like, this is what old men do, tells us so much about what she had seen in just her first 19 years. in this, like, I have a 15-year-old daughter, and I have an almost 17-year-old son, and I can guarantee you that if anything like this happened to them at a party, I'd be their first phone call, or at least I'd be in the top four. You know, like, they talk about it. It would be so shocking and beyond the pale. God only knows what she had seen prior to that. Yeah, this became sort of like an everyday occurrence.

40:19Even the way she describes it in her book, it's not that shocking, and that's because from a very, very young age, she had been around depravity. She had been around people that were just bad, bad people who had never had any consequences. We saw this with the Harvey Weinstein case. And to put a child into this environment, it's just so unfair. Adults, I don't know how adults can actually navigate going to Hollywood and having a career. We've heard about the casting couch, we've heard about auditions, we've heard about lecturers, heads of studios, bad behaviour. Add into that mix somebody who is literally a child, who has never, ever had to learn the skills yet that they need in life.

41:07And that innocence was taken away from her. And I truly believe, I spoke to a friend of Hayden's this morning, they told me that's why she made the decision that her daughter would have a better life with her father than with her mother because she wanted to break the cycle. She didn't want this to go on. It ends with us. She did not want her daughter in this environment. And then she got slammed for that. She knew people were going to slam her. And it does sound terrible to give up your daughter. She didn't look at it like that. A friend said she wasn't giving her up. In Hayden's opinion, she was rescuing her, rescuing her from a world that Hayden just couldn't shake off.

41:52She wanted it back in Hollywood. She wanted to be making movies. This was her life. This was her drug. And she knew it was bad in the same way she knew that that boyfriend was bad. She just couldn't walk away from it. It walked away from her. She wasn't giving her up. She was giving her a chance. And it worked. The child, by all accounts, is thriving and I'm sure extremely distressed today to find out what's happened with her mother. This quote came from the memoir about her own mother. I became the confidant and the assistant and the therapist and the shoulder to cry on and everything but her child.

42:32I mean, that is just so brutal. And I believe every word of it. that innocent little girl, the one who first took us all by storm. She was in A Bug's Life, and then she was in Remember the Titans, which, to be honest, is the only thing I ever saw her in, those movies that I've seen with my kids. But when I saw the younger version of her, I was like, oh yeah, yeah, this brings back a lot of memories. She was effervescent and had, for sure, star quality. There's this video that we pulled of her on the then Rosie O'Donnell show. This is back when Rosie was super likable and fun and funny and had her talk show, which was a hit before she'd lost her mind, too, to be honest.

43:16But watch this clip.

43:36Every time you look at me, my heart is jumping, tell me what can I do? You drive me crazy, I just can't sleep. I'm so excited, I'm in too deep. Oh, crazy, but it feels alright. Baby, thinking of you, keep me up all night. Woo! Thank you! adorable i mean absolutely adorable but of course they're promoting something in red like they look like latex pants it's giving a little john benet vibes there you know a little sexualization of a young girl rosie was clapping along and kind of doing fun facial expressions like i can't believe how good she is and but you you think about that sweet innocent girl rob who had her whole life in front of her, who should have been out at the playground in the middle of the day, not on Rosie O'Donnell.

44:41Right. Promoting her latest project. Right. Amidst a sea of vipers. And then you find out she winds up drug addicted, an alcoholic, a mother who doesn't apparently love her, who's getting used and abused, who then has massive postpartum depression, has to give up her child to the husband, which caused her additional emotional issues. And then the ultimate, of course, winds up in a physically abusive relationship. That little girl winds up in this physically abusive relationship. She talked about it too on Jay Shetty. This was dated May 11th, again, two, three months ago about that relationship and when he would hit her, according to Hayden, it's not four.

45:27That the physical abuse would come out of left field, but it was always when he was drinking, same as my mom. We could be dancing and joking, then a switch would flip and suddenly it was on. Something would snap and it was like watching a predator suddenly smell blood. I was dealing with this Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde situation. I tried to fight back in every way that I could think of. I took every approach from standing my ground to attempting to calm the situation to running and hiding from it until he sobered up. Then once he was sober, that good part of him would be back and he would see the damage he had done and he was devastated and apologetic and it seemed so honest and genuine that I was torn.

46:19I thought back to everything I've done wrong in the past and the forgiveness I was shown. So I think a part of me felt an obligation to be just as forgiving. Classic abuse survivor behavior. So what do we make of the abusive relationship here? Yeah, yeah. Just this is a behavior that she was taught at a very early age. And it's so easy to fall into this. And I know that people from the outside look at this and just say, leave, just leave. You can't. This is in her DNA. And so she got a kid away from this, which I think we all have to be really grateful for and have extraordinary admiration about.

46:59But she herself just couldn't get out of it. And that clip you just played on Rosie O'Donnell really touched me because where was the off-ramp? There must have been so many decisions from that kid to yesterday when she passed away, all those years. Where was the off-ramp? Why wasn't there any chance to get off this path that I think we could all see now looking back? It seems so clear to me that we know what the outcome of this is going to be. And it's so much harder than it sounds. Once the damage is done, and it was done at a very early age, forever on, you've got to constantly be fighting to correct that.

47:42And she did fight. She put up a good fight. I think writing the memoir, I spoke to a friend of hers this morning, writing the memoir really helped. It helped her sit down and think about this stuff. Unfortunately, it didn't help enough. And it was probably a little bit too late. Right. It was three months ago. Three months ago. And the bomb, though it may have soothed on its initial release, did not last. And it appears she went back to some sort of substance abuse. And it appears she was doing that with the abusive ex-boyfriend. Just to clarify again, the ex-boyfriend is the one whose soundbite we played at the top who sounded like an idiot.

48:23the ex-husband or partner, the father of her child is a totally different guy who seems to have been a good guy who's got custody of the daughter over in Europe. But this is what TMZ is reporting, that Hayden's on-again, off-again boyfriend, Brian Hickerson, was living in the unit where she died with his brother. We have not been able to confirm if Brian was in some sort of distress. The 911 caller reported two people in need of an ambulance. so there may be another shoe to drop on this whole thing rob because the reporting prior to that was via the daily mail um 10 53 saying she went into cardiac arrest following a suspected overdose at a loft apartment in south carolina you could hear the woman on the on the phone say she had suffered cardiac arrest 9-1-1 a few moments later you could hear the male dispatcher talk about suspected overdose.

49:22Police, excuse me, and the medical examiner are investigating the death. No indications of foul play or suspicious circumstances. Again, we don't know what that means. They said that she and Brian were said to have flown from LA to South Carolina, where he's from one day before she died. And that he, of course, had been arrested in the past for punching her in the face. There were other incidents, instances alleged, but not proven in court as well. So there you have it. They were together in the 24 hours prior to her death. It sounds like she died in his apartment. And he may also have taken something if that second person in need of an ambulance was Brian.

50:02This is just so like revolting story. It is, but there's so many questions here though, Megan, too. She got on a plane with him to go to South Carolina to his apartment to celebrate her birthday. Friends tell me they were back together on again, off again, on again. At the moment, unfortunately, they were back together. There was so much together that she was going to celebrate her birthday. This was meant to be a joyous trip. This wasn't a trip of heartache, of heartbreak. They went to South Carolina together where he, I'm told by my sources, was planning a big birthday party. It wasn't a surprise, but he was throwing a birthday bash.

50:38What happened? Where was he? Was he in the apartment? Where did the drugs come from? Are they prescription drugs? What is going on? We have a ton more questions about this really ugly case. We saw people around Matthew Perry charged after he died, the ones who supplied him with the drugs. If this was an OD, who supplied the drugs? Was it the boyfriend? Was this the final act of abuse? I'd like to know. Let's end with what she said to Jay Shetty in SOT 7. I finally feel like I have shaken off all of this darkness and this negativity. And that means I've closed one door and another door is opened.

51:25and I can feel it open and I can feel all the possibility, all the possibilities, all the exciting possibilities. I feel like I have a lot more life to live. Oh, Megan. If only that had been true. Rest in peace, Hayden Penadere. You deserved better. Rob, thank you so much. Great to have you here. Good to see you, my friend. say a prayer. We'll be right back. Everybody's talking about weight loss injections because the results can be so dramatic. They work by lowering blood sugar and reducing appetite. But what if you're looking to lose weight but are not interested in painful weekly injections, especially when you hear about some of those intense side effects?

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53:59Just me this hour, folks, because I've got a lot to say about a few subjects, including the death of Professor Jason Arday. First of all, like most normal people, I was horrified to see the news cross the transom on Friday. I mean, once again, I could believe it. I wasn't actually struggling to believe it just because this was clearly a disturbed person. I mean, very clearly not mentally solid or well. And he had already begun a pattern of painting himself as the victim where the truth is, he was the perpetrator and the cause of the troubles that he was suffering. He was not the victim of people finding out he had lied and reporting on it.

54:49So that's what happened. But it would have been, I thought, on brand, for lack of a better term, for him to become the ultimate victim because he clearly wanted us to see him as such. I don't believe for one minute that story about the pig's head winding up on his parents' doorstep. No one took a picture. I don't believe he was attacked on the campus of Cambridge University twice and no CCTV coverage caught it. I don't believe any of those things happened. I don't believe he was beaten so bad at a bus stop that he got epilepsy and then went on to have two of the abusers as students and one asked him to be the godfather to his child.

55:35I will believe that if we find said young man. Show me the man and have him say it's so, and then I will believe it. Short of that, I don't believe it. It's too extraordinary. And I don't believe you get epilepsy from getting beaten up at a bus stop. Same as I don't believe he had multiple brain tumors or a stroke or broken leg on which he ran the last nine of his alleged 30 marathons in 30 days, 30 or 35. I just, I think what we've stumbled upon here, and I think we all know this now, is a serial fabulist whose word could not be trusted and who at every turn was making up lies. One of the things he said about himself was that he was featured in some British television program when he was a child, but that television program had been on long before he was born.

56:25So he was not, he was not featured in that television program. Like these were, they were very bold and aggressive lies, aggressive lies that he could easily be caught telling and now has been. But having said all that, and I'll get back to the substance of, you know, what happened in his case. When a human being dies, it's appropriate and proper to pay your respects to them. He was a dad of two kids. He was a husband. He was a son. and look he was a british citizen who was flawed deeply flawed and people did get hurt there have been testimonials from students who didn't get anything like what they were entitled to as paying students at cambridge university but this isn't a bernie madoff type who's running around with his lies so big that people are losing their fortunes and their lives so on the relative scale of, you know, bad actors.

57:25He was nowhere near toward the bottom. He was more of a very interesting... This feature of DEI gone wild, you know, of a university that's at the apex of prestige and respect and at the nadir of credibility now because of its unwillingness to verify any of his credentials. so it's just it was a shocking display of dei on steroids where truly they they just hired him because of his skin color notwithstanding his obvious lack of qualifications on even on the resume he submitted and then if you probed it just a bit i mean just a bit you would see it fall apart like a house of cards you know i think simon and schuster is wrestling with that same reality right now as his memoir sits on the shelves with a bunch of obvious lies in it so it's very sad that he thought he had no way out of this scandal but to take his own life and it's clearly a testament to his lack of resilience and lack of mental wellness um i really thought that the play could have been for jason our day something akin to what we saw George Santos do, which is become in on the joke.

58:47You know, if he could have come out and given a tell-all interview, just confessing to it all and saying, I did lie. And these are the lies I told. And you know what? I was embraced like the second coming by the admin board or the university board at Cambridge and at my last university too. And there was a long list of people who bought my lies hook, line and sinker. And I don't blame them because I'm the one who told them he can talk like that. But it does tell you a thing or two about this system. So, you know, for whatever it's worth, this is what I gleaned. You can wipe your hands clean and free of me, but this is my story.

59:31That book, Simon & Schuster should have published, and it would have been a huge bestseller. You know, I think healthy people can generally see beyond the storm to the next sunny port, and it is very sad that he was not able to. So I do, my heart goes out to his family and friends who are suffering. However, none of that undoes the truth, which is that Jason Arde's demise professionally is due to one person, Jason Arday. And to the extent outside institutions or influences pushed it along, it was not the media that exposed the lies. It was the institutions that set this guy up to fail like nobody's business.

1:00:21I mean, this, when someone sets someone up to fail, it should now be called an Arday or maybe it should be called a Cambridge, But something along those lines, because this was the biggest disservice a university has ever provided to someone in the name of helping them. What did they think was going to happen? I mean, truly, what did they think was going to happen when they took this guy who was not particularly impressive in his credentials or where he'd been educated? He had written almost nothing and certainly nothing deeply scholarly, which is what the actual criteria are to get hired as a Cambridge University professor.

1:00:59They overlooked them because they were this is also an openly reported fact under pressure to add to their ranks in both the professorial departments and in the student department. When it comes to black people, male or female, they need a more black participants at Cambridge. and even when they were defending our day early on, I read you this quote twice as we covered the story over the past two weeks, they were saying openly, his defenders there, one of the assistant professors at the university was saying, oh, but he does such a good job of basically being black, of being representative and being diverse, which is so important here at Cambridge.

1:01:38It's like, this is so insulting. Remember we talked about this last, it's so insulting. They were saying it outright. Oh, but he does a great job of being diverse. Like he's nailing that. Oh my God, you're so insulting. So they overlooked his lack of qualifications and the New York Times, in a very interesting twist, came out with a long story underscoring that point over the weekend, you know, on how, what the qualifications are and how he didn't come close to meeting them and how there actually were a few other people in the running to become, to fill this position that he filled, including two black women who put in for the position, but got rejected because they didn't have his disability story.

1:02:20I'm sure that was it. That's the reason he was chosen over them was not explicit in the piece, but let's face it. You know, the only way to Trump a black woman in the field of DEI is to, yes, you have to be black. So he had that box check, but he was a man. So he went down, they were above him. I guarantee you, I know the hierarchy. So do you guys. You have to have something in the LGBTQ field or you got to have disabilities. Those are these are their rules. Sorry. You know, in destitution derby woke style, you need another identity chip. And he had them galore. He wasn't gay. He was married to a woman, but he did have the disabilities.

1:03:01Just ask him. And they were clearly made up. I mean, Maybe he had one or two, but the New York Times also reported that he was not mute until age 12. He said he only spoke his first words just days before his 12th birthday. And now the New York Times has tracked down his childhood friends saying that's not true. He used to crack jokes in the back of the car on the way to some practice. They carpooled and he would imitate people's accents and we'd be very funny. He was absolutely fully verbal. so his parents knew he was lying and virtually everybody who grew up with him knew he was lying and did him the courtesy of not outing that Cambridge University I mean I guess that's one of those things I don't think they're going to run around testing people's stories about themselves when they were 10 like if I go out and say I was a tomboy are they going to want proof Like, show me a picture of you in jeans, sweatshirts.

1:04:01I can see why they didn't look into that one. But honestly, the Times hits them for that too. Because what the Times reports is that, and Cambridge has these speech specialists and disability experts and specialists on staff, senior staff in their professorial ranks that could have told them and apparently has spoken to the Times or at least others at other universities, other professors at other universities have, saying that's not possible. What they've reported about that disability not being able to speak and then turning it around is not possible. I'm pulling up the Times article here. They write, his claims about not speaking were false.

1:04:42A former classmate and a speech professional who worked with him told the Times. One former schoolmate, Jonathan Stewart, recalled Dr. R. Day cracking jokes and putting on playful accents in a minivan on the way to church activities as children. His supposedly remarkable trajectory from nonverbal preteen to PhD had no precedent in medical literature. No precedent, experts in developmental and speech delays say. That should have set off alarm bells for the Cambridge Hiring Committee, which included a child psychiatrist who had done research on autism, experts said. So the hiring committee had someone who was an expert in child psychiatry and had done research on autism.

1:05:31And yet that person wasn't able to muster the courage to say, this sounds like bullshit. The longer article in the Times talks about how, you know, these, these experts in this field have been getting calls from parents who do have children with this problem, saying, oh, this is prior to Friday and his downfall, saying, oh, my God, this is wonderful. Like, what a story. Is it true? And that these experts have been saying, you never want to tell a grieving mother, grieving because of her child being mute, unable to speak, that it's impossible. But so they knew. So the Times was doing this deep dive on our day when they found this Jonathan Stewart they found the speech professional who worked with him and who knows who else they found but they were doing a deep dive on jason our day and if they had if that had gotten back to jason our day then i'm sure he knew you know the other shoe was about to drop that more and more huge pieces of his bio were falling apart because while many of us suspected that was a bunch of bullshit about not being able to speak prior to age 12 and not and being totally illiterate until age 18, only to then go on and get your PhD.

1:06:51We didn't have proof of it, even though it did seem imminently disprovable. You know, there would be there would be childhood friends. There would be professors and teachers in your life. There would be, you know, piano teachers and so on who any intrepid reporter could track down. It just hadn't been done. And now you've got the Times writing how conservative commentators seized on our day's fall as evidence of diversity and inclusion efforts run amok. Okay, number one, what else could this even arguably be? This was DEI run amok. That's not a matter of opinion. That is a fact. It's a fact. What do you mean run amok?

1:07:35They, in three paragraphs later, admit Cambridge had so few black professors that it was under pressure from faculty and students to diversify. I mean, you are reporting that Cambridge was under pressure to hire more black professors. And that's when our day came along. Cambridge is on the record defending the hire as saying, oh, but he was so diverse and he did a great job of showing that we now want diversity at Cambridge. I think this isn't Megyn Kelly's opinion or any other conservative commentators opinion. You you're reporting the facts that support no other conclusion, New York Times. So this is nonsense to try to say they seized on this as evidence of DEI run amok, but it's also not conservative commentators.

1:08:26All right. The guy, um, the first, the guy who brought this out had been at Cambridge. I mean, like he does have very controversial views on race, this guy, but I'm, I'm going to guess he's not some diehard right winger, but the guardian did one of the first and best early takedowns of this guy, the guardian, The Guardian is as far left as a paper can go. So this is not some right-wing hit job. This was everywhere over the past two weeks. It was like the dismantling of a massive lie that had been told at the most elite levels of university. And we all watched it crumble in real time. Like, that's what was interesting about it.

1:09:09Only the nutcases are like, ah, ha, ha, ha, let's destroy a black man. That had nothing to do with it. It was only interesting that his skin color was the reason for his rise. It had nothing to do with people wanting to see him fall. Not the vast majority. I'm sure there was a couple of racists out there who said, oh, great. But that's not actually how this went down. And yet, and yet, we've got a narrative forming now amongst the normal race hustlers who are trying to make this into something about racists hurting a black man. That's what this is really about. And of course, chief among them, Ibram X.

1:09:54Kendi. Oh, let me start before I get to him. There's a PBS anchor. PBS. What? Why are you commenting on anything? We don't want to hear from you, Jeff Bennett, who posted on X about the New York Times article. A man dies at 41 after weeks of relentless public scrutiny. The New York Times the next day, he was underqualified for his job. Whatever the merits of the underlying questions, publishing this now is ghoulish. What are you saying? You're in a news organization. We're in news. This is a McDonald's, sir. Like, what are you? We're in news. It is literally our job to report on on events like this and what the truth is.

1:10:34You don't want to read it. You don't have to read it. Don't buy the Times. Don't click on my face, as Dave Chappelle says. But how is a newsman at PBS criticizing another news organization for telling the truth about this serial fabulist whose character and life story is very much in question? I mean, I think he gave us the ultimate answer with what he did on Friday. But for those who still have doubts, the reporting is worthwhile. It is worthwhile to hear from the Stewart character, Jonathan Stewart and others who grew up with Arde. So then there's Ibram Kendi, the anti-racist, who believes that the only answer to past racism is present day racism.

1:11:19Literally, that is his belief. Who, his name is not even Ibram X. Kendi. I think you know that. His name is Ibram Henry Rogers. Henry, Henry, you really shouldn't be a Malcolm X wannabe. Don't be such a poser, okay? Because you didn't live like Malcolm X at all. He actually was born in Queens. He's the son of a tax accountant, Larry Rogers, and a business analyst, Carol Rogers. Larry and Carol had little Henry, who then changed his middle name when he married Dr. is Sadiqa Kendi, and he adopted her last name, so he's very progressive. And let's face it, Kendi sounds more exotic than Rogers. So he himself is just a creation.

1:12:02And he posted this on Acts. The death of Jason Arde hit so close to home that I had no words yesterday. To be a prominent anti-racist black scholar is to know you are a target, almost totally surrounded by resentments. You know that at any point the attacks can come like a lynch mob. And then he goes on to say, your lynchers will announce your death as if they had no role in your lynching. Unbelievable. Okay. This is a lynching. This is a lynching by people who suspected they were being lied to and suspected he had plagiarized and suspected he hadn't done all of the things that the hiring decision was allegedly based on and investigated those things and found out that they were right and that he was a liar.

1:12:50They had an anti-racist obligation, you might say, to bite their tongues. Then there's a little bit more. He wrote, I guess, in his, I don't even know what this, where this publication is. It's his sub stack. He had a gig at the Atlantic. I don't think it worked out. It was very short, a short stint as now he's writing at Substack. So I'm kind of feeling like the Atlantic is onto his grift. So his longer piece is entitled, The Media Lynch, Jason Arde. I mean, you know where it's going. You know where it's going.

1:13:28Okay. He goes, I have enough on him. Then Karen Atiyah, formerly of the Washington Post. We've I had our little Twitter war. She was the one who she liked the tweet. This is what decolonization looks like after 10-7. Remember, somebody saw all the dead Jews in the streets of Israel, dead grandmas at the bus stop, dead babies, dead children, raped women, and tweeted out some other person. This is what decolonization looks like. And Karen Atiyah of the Washington Post liked the tweet. That's insane. You're a lunatic. If that's your opinion, you're a sick person and she is a sick person. So she got fired by the Washington post, not over that, but it was after Charlie Kirk, um, from their terminal termination letter to her, they wrote your postings on blue sky, which clearly identifies you as a post columnist about white men in response to the murder of Charlie Kirk do not comply with our policy.

1:14:35For example, you posted, quote, refusing to tear my clothes and smear ashes on my face in performance in performative mourning for a white man that espouse that espouse violence is not the same as violence. And you posted, quote, part of what keeps America so violent is the insistence that people perform care, empty goodness, and absolution for white men who espouse hatred and violence. That was her reaction to Charlie's murder. And good for the Washington Post, they fired her ass because that was a bridge too far, even for them.

1:15:14She went off into obscurity because we don't need another know-nothing, aggrieved black woman to write a bunch of nonsense about decolonization or this nonsense about Charlie, implying clearly that he deserved to be murdered at any publication. And even the left knows that now. They're coming back slowly to their senses or at least some mild recognition that they pushed it too far. And as a result, Karen Atiyah has been sitting on the sidelines doing absolutely nothing for months now, if not years. Do we have her? She went on with Jim Acosta not too long ago and was once again playing the victim.

1:16:00And I just wonder if you could lay out your thoughts on where you are right now and maybe explain a little bit what what happened, because you were pushed out essentially for what you said about Charlie Kirk. Yeah. And, and, well, thank you so much. You actually, I think you were actually the first one to reach out. It's, it actually, um, I'm still processing, but it's actually been, I have not been able to land a one-on-one on a major network. No, I've you're the first sub stock one. I went on with Don Lemon. You guys have been the only ones seemingly brave enough to have me on. So I also just want to say thank you.

1:16:50You don't you have no idea how much this means to me. And like, I think it's just sadly a sign of the times for mainstream media, not just in this moment and the culture of fear, I think, but also So where where the truth tellers are finding themselves having to go. Oh, my God. Yes. Jim Acosta and Don Lemon. That is where the truth tellers have to go now. She this this piece takes the cake, my friends. It takes the cake on her sub stack. Jason Arde's death in the age of digital racial terror. On Monday, I was sitting on the beach in Spain, a beautiful village north of Barcelona. I watched families with little children squealing with delight in the clear water, glamorous older women sunning themselves topless.

1:17:44Despite the scenes of joy, play and sensual ease, I found myself wondering all week what or who I had left to live for, to fight for. And she mentions I was wrongfully fired by the Washington Post last September, and then she lost her father. OK, so this is amazing because she's about to go on to tell you how racist America is and how we want all black people dead. As she writes about how she's sitting in some beautiful village north of Barzalona, watching families with little children squealing with delight in the clear water, the glamorous older. Oh, you've got it so tough, Karen Atiyah. My God, I feel really sorry for you.

1:18:22Said no one. So she goes on to say she had planned to write about turning 40 as a single woman. No wonder no one wants to talk to her. Who wants to hear about that? Who gives a shit? Stop lamenting your age. I'm sick of this is like a new cottage industry for women. Like, oh, what it means to be for it's like. Like, there's no going back, people. Embrace whatever age you are like. Holly Berry, who, you know, we've ripped on endlessly for like trying to show us how sexy she is. because somebody once said she was bad in bed and she's created a complex in this woman. She posted a beautiful shot of herself in this sexy but appropriate dress, like this is 60.

1:19:03It was like a black dress. And I was like, oh, you know what? She's getting it. She's getting it. You should embrace this is 60. This is what 60 can look like. I think Nicole Kidman, same. Yeah, here she is. She looks stunning. It's great. I'm like, she's turning it around. She's not turning it around. Here she is in SOT 17 touting her new podcast, Holly Berry. Juicy like a peach is the name of the podcast. Here's another picture, by the way, with boobs galore. Let's listen to Sat 17. I am in Fiji celebrating two things. My 60th birthday. I don't know how that happened, but I thank God every day that it did.

1:19:41I've never felt better, mind, body, and spirit. Time is a construct and age just a number, so who cares? But I'm also celebrating the launch of Juicy Like a Peach. This is for all my menopausal ladies going down that path of life, trying to hold on to your intimacy because that's what makes us us. It's a vital part of being a woman and there's no reason that part of our lives should have to change in any way. So stop by Ulta, pick up Juicy Like a Peach. Consider it like a daily moisturizer, like we put on our face every day to keep us moist and supple. That's what Juicy Like a Peach does for our vaginismus.

1:20:23Go pick it up and be eternally Juicy Like a Peach. Okay, so she's not over there. She's not over the issue. I was wrong. The Juicy Like the Peach is the product, not the podcast that was put out a week or two ago. And then she went down a lane with a bunch of other overly saucy pictures. So she looks great. I'm inspired that that's what 60 can look like. But the point is, we don't have to continuously lament our age. 40. I wanted to write an article. What 40 is like as a single woman and what rebellion, reinvention, and strategy might look like for a black woman entering the second half of life.

1:21:07But the midlife reflection, sadly, people, will have to wait. The midlife reflection will have to wait, she writes, because yet another black intellectual has been destroyed by white institutions. What? Who are the other black intellectuals? In case you were wondering, she does tell us. You got to flip to the second page here. And you know who they are? Claudine Gay, the plagiarizer who used to run Harvard. Don Lemon. Joy Reid. And she writes, quote, myself, Karen Atiyah. Those are the ones she throws in one for good measure. Meghan Markle, in her view, another black intellectual destroyed by white institutions.

1:21:52OK, the white institution that Meghan Markle married into made her a princess and fabulously famous beyond her wildest dreams. They gave over one of their prized beloved sons to her, and then he reproduced with her. It doesn't seem like they really hated her. Could it have been possibly, Karen, stay with me here, that she was a bully, brat, narcissist who refused to behave like everyone who marries into that institution must behave. Like Kate had to behave. Like Fergie was told to behave. Like Diana was told to behave. And it had absolutely nothing to do with her skin color. You absolute idiot.

1:22:37I was there. I was in London. for the royal wedding, saw the whole procession. She was adored. They loved her there and here. If her skin color played any role, it was in making people love her more because we in America were like, oh, give me a black princess. That's so cool. Black American princess, no less. And the folks over in the UK, the liberals felt guilty about all the colonialization. So they were all, yay! If it was relevant at all, it was relevant in a positive way, you absolute fool. It was her behavior, her behavior that turned people on her. And I have a newsflash for you. Black people are not immune from criticism because of their skin color, which all normal black people already know and support.

1:23:25Like, only you weird, angry ladies sitting on the beach surrounded by gorgeousness and luxury find these little slivers to complain about, made up nothings that are not real. She goes on. Let's see. She talks about our day's impact. Our day's impact is precisely what made him and what makes black intellectuals like him targets for elimination, elimination. Black Black people who transgress the racial hierarchy are targets to be put back in their place. Now, you know what, Karen, I've got some news for you. I agree with you on that, except it doesn't work the way you suggest. I agree that black people who transgress the racial hierarchy are targets to be put back in their place.

1:24:18But the racial hierarchy, I hate to break it to you, has blacks up here and whites down here and Asians down here. that's the racial hierarchy post 2020 and blacks who transgress that by challenging it those with heterodox thinking on this particular issue yeah they do indeed become targets to be put back in their place i speak of course about blacks like clarence thomas who is constantly referred to as an Uncle Tom on the U.S. Supreme Court because he doesn't see race the way you do, Karen. Karen, people like Carol Swain, who came on this program and explained to us how she was doing great in the academic field at universities like Vanderbilt and others until she started to speak out about race in a heterodox way.

1:25:16Take a listen to this soundbite. The decision to leave academia had a lot to do with the reaction after I criticized Black Lives Matter in 2016. I had returned to teaching and I was on CNN debating Areva Martin. And I had gone to the Black Lives Matter website. And at that time, it was like they weren't concealing their Marxism. There was very little about blacks, but there was a lot about the other things they stand for. And I was shocked. And so on the show, I said that they represented a destructive force in our society, that they were Marxists. And I encourage people to go to that website.

1:26:01And that set up an even greater firestorm because on the campus, I'd had problems, you know, with some groups, you know, but not the blacks. They had not been involved. And so once I criticized Black Lives Matter, I united the affinity groups on campus. And she was pushed out of academia for having those views, as was Shelby Steele, author of White Guilt, amongst other major publications. And his son, Eli, posted on social media last week. And I read this to you at the time. And I'll just read it to you in part because it's long. I was only a teen when I witnessed how my father, Shelby Steele, was forced out of his university for the crime of believing that blacks could achieve the American dream without preferential treatment.

1:26:56My father was often voted as the best professor in his department. When I would go with him around town, former students would come up and thank him for pushing them to their limits. But when he began to publish his thoughts on race in Harper's and Commentary magazine, the white guilt slash black power elites. got it he's so right white guilt slash black power elites at the university decided he had to go goes on to conclude with don't you see how evil race is to rely on even an inch of it robs one of the will they need to push their talents to the highest of heights so it is the case that black intellectuals get punished for heterodox views on race or their views on race.

1:27:44Just not the ones you think, Karen Atiyah. It's not working the way you think. She goes on to say a black person in the United States can hear about what happened to our day and feel terrified for his or her job. So now all blacks have their necks on the chopping blocks because of our day, because he was outed. So every single black person now has to work. This is such nonsense. You know, note to all blacks and whites and everybody else, you're fine if you didn't tell a bunch of huge foundational lies that collectively amount to a fraud in getting the job and then in doing the job, you'll be fine.

1:28:27And honestly, even regular resume puffery would never have been a story like the Jason Arday story became. This is just crazy ass, self-important lying, you know, just to make herself feel like more of a victim. Like she's, she's got to build it up. Like the whole world's against me. The Washington Post was wrong to fire me for those tweets. And I guess Israel is so wrong that, that they, they deserve to have their old ladies killed at buses and their babies murdered. Like that's decolonization. Like, this is her worldview. It's very dangerous. It's very weird. And then she goes on. This is like so good.

1:29:03I've got to read you part of it. Algorithms can now turn the punishment of a single person into a global demonstration of power, delivering a lightning fast warning to successful black people in white institutions around the world. Don't aim too high. What happened to Arde can happen to you. Behave accordingly. And she ends by saying, as I sit here in Spain, I wonder if any place in the world is safe if you are a black person who has transgressed the racial order. Maybe we should ask Barack Obama. And by that, I mean, former president Barack Obama. Should we ask him? Let's ask him what if there's any place in the world that is safe for you as a black person who has transgressed the racial order.

1:29:46Could he do it? If he's not available, he doesn't take your calls. Maybe we call Kamala Harris. Let's ask her. but she's formerly vice president of the United States. Do you think, you think that she feels that a black person can transgress the racial order and, um, have any place in the world that's safe for her? I don't know. Like if you can't get her to call, maybe, maybe you could get Oprah, Meghan Markle's friend. Let's check in who could buy and sell all of us and our whole families 25 times over. So let's find out how life in America went for her. Like All of this is just so absurd. This woman is a nutcase, and it is very telling that she was writing for the Washington Post as recently as a year ago.

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1:34:03Here's one of the cherries on the Sunday. This crazy person who's a member of parliament in the UK, her name is, I don't know her personally, but her name is Zahra Zoltana, writes, if Jason Arde were a white middle-class academic, he would not have been hounded by the British press in the way he was. So I saw actually a fair amount of this on X over the weekend. So this would never have been done to a white academic who told all these lies. That's not true. In fact, Greg Lukianoff, a fire who's been on this show repeatedly, he's a free speech advocate, responded on X to her tweet, quote, I think what happened to Jason Arde is tragic and heartbreaking.

1:34:49But this counterfactual that you propose did actually take place in the US involving a professor and right-wing jokester, who I became friends with over the years of having to defend his free speech rights. Mike Adams was mobbed and canceled in 2020, and he killed himself shortly thereafter. And the American press largely treated it like he had it coming. Also, same commenters on the internet seemed almost gleeful about his death. Some commenters. that was wrong then and it would be wrong now and sure enough greg had written an article in 2023 about professor mike adams and his suicide saying it's been more than three years since former university of north carolina wilmington professor mike adams killed himself after being pushed into early retirement for offensive tweets he was the author of the book feminists say the darndest things a politically incorrect professor confronts women spelled w-o-m-y-n on campus Mike posted a tweet addressing state governor Roy Cooper that compared North Carolina's COVID-19 restrictions to slavery, writing, Massa Cooper, let my people go.

1:35:59Change.org petition then to get him fired. Mike and I finally spoke, writes Greg, over the phone on July 13th. He was shaken and upset in a way I'd never heard him before. He told me stories of angry phone calls and emails he received. He was found alone in his home on July 23rd with a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head. He was 55. Then Greg writes the following. For those of you who have never been in the middle of the battle between the worst of the ideological left and the worst of the ideological right, I can tell you it really gets inside your head. You get to see people on both sides go from loving you to hating you, depending on who you defend, even if the moral principles of the case are identical.

1:36:42You can be unpersoned into a caricature of societal evil, an object of scorn, no longer a real person, but an evil abstraction, sometimes a laughable cautionary tale. That's all true. But the difference here is that Karin Atiyah and others like her, including this Zahra Zoltana, believe that no white person would ever be subjected to that kind of online abuse. And indeed, you have an example right here of a college professor who was, and I don't think Karen Atiyah wrote one word about it. And I'll bet you this Zahra Zoltana knows nothing about it because the press ignored it and they didn't care about a 55-year-old white male professor taking his life after the online mob came for him.

1:37:36I can tell you something else. I back up what Greg writes about 100%. To be in the middle of the battle between the worst of the ideological left and the worst of the ideological right. Yeah. Been there. I've been canceled by both sides over and over and over. Um, it's not pleasant. It, it can really do a number on you. And even though it's been, you know, stressful, no matter who's trying to cancel me, um, nothing compared to what the left did to me. I mean, they, they are the most vicious in the country. As far as I'm concerned. Absolutely vicious. They will bully you until you are in the fetal position and have zero empathy.

1:38:17They will smile as they watch your pain. So I don't really have any tolerance for these leftists trying to lecture anybody on the right about canceling Professor Arday. He was canceled not by the right. He was canceled by the New York Times, by the Guardian, by Cambridge. And just because conservatives noticed he was a DEI hire and his perpetuated lies does not make them responsible for his death. That brings me to the Atlantic's Thomas Chatterjee Williams, who wrote the following. There's something really nasty about the blood lust that exists on part of the right. Goes on to say, dancing on a man's grave for the crime of plagiarism and being over-promoted is morally abhorrent.

1:39:05That's not what happened here. That is a straw man, Thomas. It's not that he was over-promoted. Come on. He was a serial fraudster. Every piece of his bio turned out to be false. We're learning more about his lies by the minute they were so many in number. And it is a fascinating human story when you find somebody like that who's risen to the highest ranks of our most trusted institutions, allegedly Cambridge University. That would be a story irrespective of skin color and bloodlust that exists on parts of the right. What the fuck? We are three weeks away from the anniversary of Charlie Kirk's assassination before our eyes.

1:39:49Would you stop? Stop it. Don't be ridiculous. Was it was it a a right winger who tried to take him out? I don't think so. Thomas was Luigi Mangione, who just pleaded guilty to federal stalking of Brian Thompson. We'll see what happens with those state charges as well, which are for murder. Was he a right winger? Did he have bloodlust existing on parts of the right? I don't think so. This is just, you know, this is just a narrative that people push to make themselves feel better then you've got this group the good law project which had been defending jason ardent irrespective of all his lies never gave in on the lies never admitted any lies whatever now they are standing by their positions they call it still fake accusations of plagiarism and they want a public inquiry into his death The death was the direct foreseeable and foreseen result of press harassment.

1:40:52There cannot be any doubt that racism lay at the heart of this story. To be black in a public figure is now enough to make you a target. Black people are fearful and on the evidence they are right to be. We respectfully ask you, this is to the government, to set up a public inquiry into the press, to commission an immediate public inquiry into how to ensure a responsible press, given its contribution to Dr. Arday's tragic death. That is so outrageous and ridiculous. This is not the doing of the press. The press had every right to test the claims that were offered to it publicly by Professor Arday, who made sure he was on camera and in prominent writings and publications touting his alleged life story, including in a memoir he chose to release through Simon and Schuster.

1:41:46Okay. Like you put it out there, sir. You put it out there, Professor Arday. And the testing of the claims was entirely appropriate and frankly, long overdue. I just, you know, this whole thing is a tragedy, but it is a tragedy that was caused by Arday and a university so determined to feel good about itself and wash away its own white guilt that it put someone in a position asking for him to fail. The students that have come forward since he was elevated talking about how he never gave them proper reviews. He was not a proper mentor to them as he was required to be. He wouldn't meet with them.

1:42:28He would just say, you're doing great, doing great. Then he'd give them to grades that far that fell far below what his oral brush offs had been. They were not well served by him and the other professors who saw him being touted as the poster boy at Cambridge who knew his scholarship was flimsy at best and did a minimal amount of checking only to find tons of plagiarism. They were not well served. Of course, those people were going to start testing whether he was legit. And that's actually how the story got started. Some professors at the university raised concerns to the university, which was able to verify them and then work with Jason to rectify the, you know, whatever they had found.

1:43:06But then as they got more widespread. First, a publication in the UK took it on. They got threatened and actually didn't go forward with their publication. But then we had the gentleman who came out on our show last week, a former Cambridge professor who'd been fired. He started digging around. And one by one, the plagiarism allegations grew. Cambridge tried to blame a lot of them on the earlier institution he had been at, saying they're going to have to look into it, not us. And then the bio questions grew and so on. Anyway, this is not a media concoction. Frankly, it was Cambridge professors who were mad and felt slighted and saw the lies because they're Cambridge professors and they knew what the qualification should be who got this ball rolling.

1:43:49The lesson here is that DEI is an utter failure. It doesn't help the person. It doesn't help black people who don't check the box either because they get suspected of being the beneficiaries of DEI and it should be abolished entirely, entirely. We should get back to the game of merit and only merit mattering. And if the doors had been previously closed to people of color, when it comes to consideration, they should be open. They should be getting the same fair and balanced look as anybody else, but their skin color cannot be the cause of elevation. That's the lesson here. we're back tomorrow we will see you all then and much much more to discuss thanks for listening to the megan kelly show no bs no agenda and no fear

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