Kyle Busch's Shocking and Tragic Death, Plus Stabbing in UK, and Female JP Morgan Exec COUNTERSUES, with Mark Eiglarsh and Jonna Spilbor | Ep. 1323

27:15But a 41 year old, this is a little unusual. It has to be a pretty severe infection. The other thing that goes back to what I'm thinking is the pulmonary embolus. I have seen so many people, and I'm sure Dr. Perrin will agree, who die from acute pulmonary emboli. And that is a big clot that goes to the lung. And if these little clots go to the lung before the big one, they cough up a lot of blood. And the third thing is congestive heart failure. One can cough up blood with congestive heart failure and pulmonary or lung edema, fluid in the lungs, lots of fluid. And the hemoptosis. What would cause a pulmonary, what would cause the PE?

27:56I remember that from my ER watching days. They would dread the PE, you know, and even we would come to know, oh, God, it's a PE. What would cause that? Well, with Kyle's job. We'll do Lajita and then we'll go to you, Perry. Okay, good. Well, a PE would come from, we call that procoagulant. You can have a deep vein clot in your legs from sitting too long. You can have it from having a disorder of your blood, which is called procoagulation, meaning your blood tends to clot prematurely. We see a lot of that in the hospital. And so that is always a possibility. Pulmonary emboli cause a lot of sudden deaths.

28:36You don't have to be old to get a PE. You don't have to, you can see PEs in teens. You can see it in early 20s and certainly in a 40-year-old. Oh my gosh. But there wouldn't be like advanced notice of a PE, would there, Dr. Parrott? Like, are we, like if we're going with respiratory and following what you just said, maybe it wasn't a sinus infection. Maybe it was something like a pneumonia that he wrongly thought was a sinus infection. Would that relate to PE? It can. Anytime you get an infection, it creates an inflammatory state in your body. And so that's a pro-coagulant. So any type of infection.

29:16And then Kyle sits down. He's a race car driver. That sitting position for prolonged periods of time can allow you to develop clots. So it could be that he had some infection And then because of that inflammation in his system and sitting down in a simulator for a long period of time, had to develop a clot in his leg and broke loose and suddenly caused an embolism to the lung. So it's really hard to say without having imaging, a CT scan. But if he came into my ER, he'd be getting a CT scan of his chest, looking for both pneumonia, both PE, to try to identify the cause. are you surprised to hear the caller say he's awake apparently if you listen to the whole thing he says it three times he is awake he's awake he's awake we heard the part where he said he's awake but he's on the floor so he was conscious and having symptoms and i don't know it feels like i don't it's just my frustration should have been savable should have been savable Like, how can you if a PE was the problem, would that not be savable?

30:26You know, I mean, what could it have been that would have killed him from the time of the simulator to the time he presumably was taken to the ER on our list of suspects, Dr. Parrott? Yeah. So most PEs, it's very rare to die at 41 of a QPE. The treatment that we have today, we can give you blood thinners. We can go in there and grab that clot. We can do an embolectomy, get you over there and remove the clot. However, if you've filled up your airway with fluid, blood, and you can't oxygenate, even if we put you on a ventilator, and this is due to a pneumonia or an infection, and we can't oxygenate you because your lungs aren't functioning, they're full of infection, they're full of fluid, they're full of blood, that can cause death, unless you get on ECMO, which is a way to bypass the lungs and still oxygenate your blood.

31:17that could cause death. Dr. Lajita, would it be a standard practice in a case like this, do you think, if he comes in and says, I think I have a sinus infection, I'm all stuffed up, I'm in pain in my face, to do a lung x-ray, which is, I know, that would be the standard if you suspected pneumonia. That's correct. Yes. Pneumonia, you'd listen to the lungs carefully. You would do a complete cardiac exam. You would really get the picture. And I don't know if he He had a physician that was frequently examining him. Most athletes of his caliber are followed medically fairly assiduously. Well, there's that one doctor 11 days before he died who gave him a shot of something and knew he was ill.

31:57He was talking about it. I've heard the audio of him in the car. So clearly there was medical care involved in some way. Yeah. Now, I don't remember, Megan, did they say he had a fever? They said he's very hot. He's going to pass out. Shortness of breath. blood, he's coughing up blood and is awake on the floor. Very hot. That's suggestive of an infection as Dr. Perrin and I believe that suggests that he could have had pneumonia, severe pneumonia, because you don't with a blood clot, that's a significant blood clot, a pulmonary embolism, you don't usually have a high fever at the outset. I mean, it takes the pneumonia, the infection that's causing all of this to really cause problems.

32:37And it's likely that the doctor a couple days earlier that gave the shot, gave him a shot of an antibiotic, which doesn't cover it. I mean, if he's that severely ill, he should have been on, it should have been in the hospital on IV therapy, IV antibiotic therapy, because he probably was septic and sepsis with a high fever, coughing up blood, that's imminent death unless treated aggressively. That's awful. I don't know any of the details of how far away the center where he was doing the simulator was from an emergency care hospital or what the level of trauma care they were able to give was. All those details will come out.

33:16And did you say it's mandatory for a 41-year-old? Was that just like loosely mandatory or actually mandatory for hospitals to give an autopsy to a 41-year-old? Mandatory. So there will be an autopsy? Yes. I mean, I don't know, Dr. Perrin, how is it in Texas? I know in the New York metropolitan area, it's mandated in a young person who dies. In Texas, it depends on if you have an explainable cause of death. So if the doctors were comfortable, they knew what caused this, there was no foul play. It is not mandatory, but you have to have an explainable cause of death. I feel like any spouse, a young woman like his wife is, would want one because they have kids.

34:03you want to rule out, was this something genetic that we need to be testing for in the next gen, and so we need to be on alert for it. I'm sure she's not thinking entirely straight, but I think whenever your spouse would die suddenly of a medical thing, you'd be worried about your children too, and just ruling things out. It's such an awful tragedy. Guys, thanks so much for pinch-hitting on short notice and offering your expertise to us and our viewers. Absolutely. Thank you. Really appreciate it. But wow, say a prayer. Say a prayer for that grieving family. It's so, sudden death is just so awful.

34:39It's so awful. You know, it's like the person who goes, we all kind of hope we'll go suddenly, right? It's like, you know, I mean, for the rest of the people out there, that's not gonna happen to any of us listening. Dying, we're just gonna stick around. But for the family, it's just so painful. There's no chance to say goodbye. There's no chance to acclimate yourself to the possibility of one going. and when there's children involved, just so much acute pain for the mother to deal with. Their grief, being a single mom in a minute. You know, look at this guy. He's like a strong, tall, professional athlete, fierce, you know, the way he would battle rhetorically and take no you-know-what.

35:22Like, I'm sure she's used to being protected by him. I'm sure he was the alpha figure in the family. and now he's gone and she's going to need a lot of support. And I'll bet you anything, she's going to get it. The NASCAR family's very close. And I'm sure the fans are just wondering what they can do. Maybe we'll start a GoFundMe or something to help. I'm sure they weren't hurting for money, but there's got to be some way of sending her and the kids our love. It should start with prayer. Thank you all for tuning in and listening to that. We're going to move on to other news because we do have a whole show lined up for you on Kelly's Court.

36:03And we have just gotten ourselves a hold of some exclusive video in connection with the young Scottish man we told you about yesterday who was stabbed to death by a man in England who said he was allowed to carry this amazing, terrifying knife, thanks to his religion, and did, in fact, stab this 18-year-old young man with it. The cops came. The stabber claimed that he was the victim. He accused the victim of shouting some sort of racial epithet at him, of which there is zero proof, and as this young man lay dying, the police told him he wasn't, that he hadn't been stabbed. They didn't know anything.

36:58And did his assailant cry out, no, he has been stabbed. I'm sorry. It was an accident or it was self-defense, which is what he's now claiming as that case is on trial this minute in the UK. No, he didn't. He kept his mouth shut. There's been almost no photographic evidence of the alleged perpetrator here, the defendant. Somehow he's all been scrubbed from the internet. Well, we've gotten our hands exclusively on a video that shows him up close and personal with not one, but two knives, one of which appears to be a sword. I mean, a long sword, like an epi. And we're going to show it to you next.

37:38Let's talk about an uncomfortable reality. What happens financially to our loved ones once we are no longer here? We put off thinking about it for obvious reasons, but the best thing we can do for our family is to ensure that they are not left with a financial burden of mortgage, tuition, medical bills, all of it. Fortunately, taking steps to financially protect your family is easier nowadays than it used to be. And that's where Ethos comes in. Ethos makes getting life insurance fast and easy and 100 % online. You can get a quote in seconds, apply in minutes, and even get same-day coverage. There's no medical exam, and all you need to do is just answer a few simple health questions, and boom, Bob's your uncle.

38:19You can get up to$3 million in coverage. You get the lowest rate from their network of trusted carriers, with some policies as low as$30 a month. It's no wonder why Ethos has 4.8 out of 5 stars on Trustpilot, with over 4 ,000 reviews. Take 10 minutes to get covered today with life insurance through Ethos. Get your free quote at ethos.com. slash mk. That's e-t-h-o-s dot com slash mk. Application times may vary. Rates may vary, too. To realize the future America needs, we understand what's needed from us. To face each threat head on, we've earned our place in the fight for our nation's future. We are Marines.

39:02We were made for this. Every bold journey starts with a decision to go. And if you're ready, the defender is too. This is a vehicle built for more, whether you're heading off the grid or just getting out of town for the weekend. Defender is a true icon reimagined for a new generation. Its rugged exterior is built from durable materials and tested in the toughest conditions. Inside, it's modern, functional, and refined, with smart storage and premium touches that keep you comfortable wherever the road leads. It's packed with tech like 3D surround cameras, clear sight ground and rear views, driver assist features, and an intuitive infotainment system.

39:40With three models, the Defender 90, 110, and 130, there's a Defender for every kind of adventure, from city streets to remote trails. This is a vehicle that, like you, is capable of great things. Explore the full Defender lineup at LandRoverUSA.com.

40:01We are jumping into Kelly's court now. There's a lot on the docket today. We're going to cover the latest in Murdoch. There's been a massive update in that J.P. Morgan case where that guy is accusing Lorna Hajdini of sexually harassing and even forcing essentially sexual assault on him. Lots to tell you there. We've got Luigi Mangione, and we're going to get into Henry Nowak in the UK in our video that we want to show you with our panel. Here to break down the hottest legal stories are Mark Eiglarsh and Jonna Spillbord. They are hosts of the brand new show, Positively Legal, which you can find on the MK True Crime channel, wherever you get your podcasts, and on YouTube at youtube.com slash at the at sign MK True Crime.

40:43Mark, Jonna, welcome back. We have a short time here before the end of the hour, and I just want to kick it off with the most bizarre story on the internet. It's not legal, but you might have thoughts. It's this mask guy, alleged mask guy. I know you've seen it. he went on Fox News and his name is Robert Harward. He is of CENTCOM, formerly of CENTCOM, Central Command in the Middle East. He's a military guy. And he was speaking to my old pals, Bill Hammer and Dana Perino on my old show, America's Newsroom. And that video has now gone super viral because if you focus on his neck right above his shirt, it very much looks like the bottom of a mask that is detached from the skin.

41:36I don't know what else this could be. There's some speculation by some online saying maybe it's a shadow. it doesn't look like a shadow to me but it's kind of hard to swallow mask we have other video of this man from other hits he's done and i will say he looks a little smoother in his america's newsroom hit than he does in some of his other videos so it's like i don't maybe i have no idea why he would be in a mask at first i saw it and i said this is some crazy conspiracy theory people are nuts, but it's gone so viral with so many people who I consider legitimate reporters, non-conspiratorial people saying, what in the hell is this that we got to talk about it?

42:28Any thoughts, Mark? I saw you shaking your head yes or nodding your head yes. What do you make of it? It's just bizarre. I don't know what to make of it. I mean, the first thing is I thought it was a given that it was a mask and then you're raising, well, it could be a shadow. I'm like, oh, wait, let's give him the presumption of innocence here. Maybe it's not a mask. And if it's not a mask, then what the hell are we doing talking about it? Right? But if it is, it's bizarre. Well, Viva Frye, who we love, he's a lawyer too. He's a journalist. And he said he thinks it's a shadow. He thinks if you watch this mark, which is horizontal across his throat, right exactly where a mask that you might pull over your head would end, he thinks it's mirroring his lip movements and I can see what he means there.

43:14It is kind of mirroring his lip movements. So I don't know what that tells us, Jonna. I don't know. Viva's theory is also that somehow it's a reflection of the teleprompter, but Viva, there would be no teleprompter for the guest. You guys have been guests on Fox News countless times. The guest does not get a teleprompter. At best, they get a little camera that they look into. So, and the camera doesn't cast shadow on the guest. So I don't, maybe it's his shirt causing a shadow. I don't know. Jonna, what do you think? Well, I originally thought before I realized that this wasn't Zoom, sometimes Zoom, when it enhances your image, can make things look really weird.

44:02But I actually think if it's a mask, this guy's onto something, Megan, hear me out. I know this probably doesn't happen to you, but it's happened to me. How many times do you wake up in the morning one day and you're like, oh, no, my Botox wore off. Right. And then you have TV, right? You've got some big thing. You've got a big conference. You're like, shoot. OK, let me get the mask. And until you can get to your Botox doctor. Objection. Unrelatable. I love it. You can't object. No. What is that? It would be so helpful. Wait, we actually pulled video from the Internet of somebody putting on an ultra realistic silicone mask.

44:36Yes, I've seen those. Amazing. Watch this. All right. The listening audience, you've got to go to the show at 44 after the hour and look at this. He's putting on his face. He's pulling it to sort of get it on the nose properly. He's putting the bottom neck underneath his T-shirt. He's putting on a cap so you can hide the weirdness. He looks very creepily real. Yeah. You would not know. Megan, in the interest of disclosure, I wanted to say something. thing. Oh, God, freak me out. No, you're freaking me out. He's pretending to pull off his mask. Let me tell you something. So the Internet was going nuts with this last night.

45:16Yours truly included. And one of the clips that started to circulate was of the I didn't even know there was such a person, the former chief of disguise at the CIA. Coolest job ever. Who doesn't want that job. Her name is Jonna Mendez. And she went on, you know, the singer Jennifer Hudson, she had a talk show for a while. And this woman went on, I mean, like so random, what? The former CIA chief of disguise speaking to Jennifer Hudson and talked about how this is absolutely something they do at CIA, a full head mask that you put on over that has like the neck ending and they used it. And she talked about when she revealed it to a former president in the Oval Office.

46:11Watch this. What's the most memorable moment from being in disguise for you? There were a number of them, but the one, I mean, one that has to stand out, I went to the White House and I briefed George H.W. Bush, the president at the time, while I was wearing a full face mask. So we're sitting like this close together and I'm telling him that I'm going to show him the best disguise that we have. And he's looking for a bag like, where is it? I said, well, I'm wearing it and I'm going to take it off. And I reached to start taking it off and he said, stop. And he got up and he walked and he looked and he looked at it.

46:53He couldn't, he didn't know it was a mask. He wasn't sure what I was wearing. He sat back down and he said, okay. so I took it off and I was holding it up in the air so he could see it my whole head it had hair and a face and a neck so you could walk around as someone else absolutely and that would be the disguise absolutely that was a great disguise go Jennifer but go go Sally Jesse Raphael that was so random you can't make it up but there for the listening audience there she there's a picture of her behind her talking of her holding her little mask up, like, like almost like a severed head sitting in the oval.

47:35And it it's it is not impossible at all that this guy, for some reason, was wearing an actual mask. We just don't know why. Now, if this guy's former CIA talking on America's Newsroom, I think I'd be convinced, Mark. But he's former CENTCOM. Right. What's his motive? And he doesn't. Right. Yeah, he doesn't have that. He's bald. He doesn't need to worry about the hair, the wrinkles. Maybe he's not full. Yeah. And also, well, unless this isn't him, like, I think that's the theory by some. So here's an earlier shot of him on a different appearance where he does look a little bit more rugged and less smooth than in this other one on America's Newsroom.

48:15But I think the theory, the question is, guys, was it actually this man, Robert Harward on America's Newsroom. Because, you know, I've listened to the audience. Many of them thought that Joe Biden had a lookalike or sort of a stand-in who wore a Joe Biden mask many, many times. And there would be videos on the internet they'd cut where like, you could see the height differential. We had tons of video of Joe Biden next to Jill Biden. And in a couple of videos, you know, and he was infirm, you'd see him much shorter, like almost her height. and people will be like, whoa, what happened? You don't shrink, you know, by six inches.

48:57So can we rule it out? Or are we just getting pulled into the madness that's in the ether right now with all the aliens coming out and like all the things we were told were bullshit are true. Right, Bigfoot is alive. We know that now. It's real. We did a segment on that at America's Newsroom one time too. Oh, no, no. In the doldrums of summer, Eiglars, it's hard. It's hard to fill the two hours of airtime. Can't we just talk about a murder? I know. Something simple to solve. All right, so we don't have answers. Is that basically where we are? We don't know. What's your vote? If you have to vote, was it a mask or not?

49:34What do you say, Jonna? It kind of looks like a mask. But if you're that sophisticated, you're going to put on somebody else's face, wouldn't it be a little bit longer? Wouldn't you wear a scarf like an Austin Powers? Do something to cover that up? Like an ass guy. I'm going with shadow. This is much ado about nothing. Nothing. No. I don't know if you watch it. Really? You don't know? It moves just like the bottom of a mask. It really does. I guess I'll go with shadow because, you know, Occam's razor, simplest explanation is usually the best. And again, why would this guy be wearing a mask? And his voice sounds just like the voice of the actual Robert Harward in other hits.

50:17So I don't believe it was a different person. But will we ever know? He's going to have to put out a statement. I guarantee you we are T minus like two hours from him putting out a statement or doing a hit. He's going to show up and we'll update the audience with that video when it happens. All right. Stand by, guys, because we've got so many medical or sorry, legal cases to get to. And there's some good ones today. While I have you, it is Friday. And that means it is the one day of the week we send you an email. If you are on our list. We don't sell our list like so many others so we can make money off of you.

50:50We just send you one email a week. And in it, we give you all the news of the week in 60 seconds or less. If you just want to read the opening bullet points, you'll be up to speed. This week, we're going to give you a bunch of behind-the-scenes stuff, videos that you may have missed that we think are our best. And there's always the most clicked-on item, and that would be Strudwick Brunt, my little red boy, who is very, very naughty, though not as naughty as he used to be. He is getting better. So thanks to all of you who told me when he was just a one and two and three-year-old lab that if I just waited, he would get better.

51:27You never said perfect, and that's good. You didn't totally mislead me. He's not perfect, and I don't think he's ever going to be. But we always put an update on Strudwick in there. And fortunately or unfortunately, to quote our president. He always gives me an update. If you are heading into summer without a medical emergency kit, you're taking a risk most people don't think about until it's too late. Summer colds linger and can turn into sinus infections that last for weeks. Can I tell you, my friend's family member just had one of these that got out of control, actually dangerous. You do have to stay on top of sinus infections.

52:05Getting sick right before vacation can derail everything. And when you're traveling, finding a doctor and pharmacy is stressful, but let me tell you about the medical emergency kit from the wellness company. It's like an urgent care and a pharmacy right at home. It includes essential prescriptions like amoxicillin and generic Z-packs to treat a wide range of common and serious illnesses. No waiting for your doctor, no hours of urgent care, no pharmacy lines, no copays. Just match your symptoms to the right prescription in your guidebook or call their telemed doctor standing by. Start in your meds sooner and feel better, faster.

52:40Order yours online in minutes and it is shipped to your door and save 45 bucks with my promo code MK at urgentcarekit.com slash MK. That's promo code MK. Go to urgentcarekit.com slash MK.

53:00Back with me now are the hosts of Positively Legal on our MK True Crime channel. That's a podcast that's called MK True Crime. You can go over there and subscribe and listen to Positively Legal and enjoy. These are our Kelly's Court OGs, Mark Eiglarsh and Johnna Spilboer. Check out mktruecrime.com to find out all the platforms that they are on and how to subscribe. By the way, new episodes of Positively Legal drop every Wednesday. We call it Positively Legal because these two happen to be like these crushing killer lawyers who are actually always affable and can always find the positive in a situation.

53:36And it's a fun show. Here's just a little, we pulled a soundbite just so people can get a flavor of what they might find on Positively Legal here in SOT20. You know that you are so busy and stressed when you get a text from your Botox doctor checking on your wellbeing, which I did, by the way. My Botox doctor's like, hey, everything okay? Like he literally did a welfare check because I haven't been there. Why? Because we're so busy. I'm busy. You're busy. And I have mixed feelings about a Botox doctor. Really? Botox doctor. I mean, he's not your heart doctor. He wants to put stuff in your face.

54:17OK. Yes. Yes. Yes. And anywhere else that I'll let him put it. So I miss him.

54:27Mark, you don't know. So not everybody wakes up gorgeous like you. Oh, stop it. The rest of us have to fight for it, John. I support you in having the Botox doctor on speed dial. I'm going to turn, Mark. You know, men are doing it too, Mark. Sure. Yeah. I get accused. They are. You'd be surprised. No, I ain't going to do it. Yeah, I will never get Doug to do it. But I do know some people in television and even in government who are getting the Botox. And I speak of men. I mean, women. It's like not a shock, but even men. And if they get it done right, you don't even notice. You just think that they look great.

55:04You can't tell. But if their smile ends here, their eyes never, then you know, that's where a lot of guys get it. And of course, the famous 11s, that's where people are trying to avoid. My injections are pickleball.

55:20I'm glad that statement ended where it did. Okay. I want to kick this off with this horrific Henry Nowak case. So he's a Scot and he was going to college in Great Britain in the English city of Southampton. He was walking home after a night out with friends. Yesterday, we said this happened in 2023. I'd like to correct that. It was 2025. It was December of 2025. He was walking home, first year college student studying accounting from a night out with friends. He had been drinking, but not much. He was not legally drunk. And a man approached him named Vikram Digwa, who is Sikh and dresses in traditional Sikh garb and carries knives as part of that chosen garb.

56:14You're not allowed to carry certain knives in Great Britain, but there's an exception if it's for your religion. So for example, he carried an eight inch long shastar, which is a knife, as well as a Sikh kirpan, a ceremonial blade. All right, so we're showing a picture of it now and of this particular guy. In the UK, Sikhs are legally permitted to carry a kirpan knife in public as it's protected under religious exemption laws. OK, so this the two men had an encounter in which Vikram and Henry exchanged words of some sort. And the next thing we know, Henry gets stabbed four times by Vikram. Those facts are not in dispute that that is what happened.

57:04What words were said, whether the stabbing was in self-defense as Vikram is now claiming in court, we don't know. But that's basically what the arguments are. Unfortunately, Henry is not here to testify in his own defense because he died from those injuries. And the police behavior around his dying moments is absolutely outrageous. And one of the things I believe that made this an international scandal, because it turned out as he lay dying and handcuffed because his assailant was saying, he called me a racist name. He was he said shouted something racist at me. And the cops believed him slapping cuffs on Henry.

57:46Henry was bleeding out and about to, the reports are, basically drown on his own blood that was filling up his lungs where he had been stabbed by Vikram. And he said, I've been stabbed to the police who said, I don't believe you have, mate. And this poor 18-year-old kid is now dead. So his accused assailant is on trial in Great Britain and is acting the choir boy. It was self-defense. He called me a racist name. I was worried he was going to stab me with my weird knives. And weirdly, it's actually, there's precious little photography or other pictures of this guy, Vikram Digwa, on the internet.

58:38We've looked, but we were passed a video by a source that shows the defendant in his Sikh gear, and he's got the one knife across him. There's this one sort of, I don't know how you describe it, but like a, it's a knife that sort of cuts in half. It has a 90-degree angle on it. I mean, it's absolutely lethal looking. And in this particular video, I think you'll see that knife, or at least a strap to it on his chest. along with a sword, the kind of sword that college kids use when they're doing sword fighting. You know, I think they call it an epi. In his other hand. I mean, a full sword walking around the streets of England.

59:21And what's interesting to me is you will hear him. They object in the beginning of the video I'm about to show you to him being recorded, which is another thing that allegedly happened during his confrontation with Henry. Henry took out his phone and started videotaping this guy. He reportedly didn't like that. And through one act or another, Vikram, the defendant, wound up with Henry's phone on him. And his mother is accused of helping him hide some of that evidence. Now, if Vikram did nothing wrong, you would think he'd say, hey, police, here's my phone and here's Henry's phone. You know, you're going to hear a racial epithet on there.

1:00:03That's not what happened. He didn't tell people they found the phone on him. But listen here carefully, and you will also hear him objecting to the recording or his friend. Listen.

1:00:46Now, let me tell you something else. My source tells me that this man, Vikram, was known to police. And this wasn't his first brush with them. I find that easy to believe. If he's walking around the streets of England with an actual sword out, it's not sheathed. It's in his hand. He's having yet another angry confrontation with somebody to the point where that person felt they ought to take out their camera and record what this guy was doing. Doesn't mean he didn't kill Henry in self-defense, but it doesn't doesn't look good. So let me start with you on it, John. What do you make of this trial?

1:01:25because it's underway right now. And unfortunately, our friends in the UK have lost their minds when it comes to race, free speech, and even the possibility of a racist thought or word. Here in America, it's not illegal to be a racist or even to say racist things. And believe it or not, that's a good thing, my friends. It's not like we all wanna be racist and run around saying racist things, but we don't want to criminalize even the most controversial behaviors or statements that it crosses over into unlawful if you act on it and in the employment context and that's your motivation for a decision etc but over in the UK you actually can get arrested for like being a racist having a racist thought or behavior or statement could actually get you arrested over there and I do believe that's why Henry wound up with the cuffs on him because they took this guy's word for it your thoughts well it's disgusting and over here, that would not happen because over here, if police happen upon a scene and one guy is brandishing or has weapons on his body and another guy is laying in the street, bleeding out, the person with the weapons is going to get subdued first, not the victim.

1:02:38So that's number one. Number two, so many facts about this, Megan, really rub me the wrong way. And for example, I don't care how drunk any college student gets. Do you think that person is going to approach somebody who's wearing knives. I just it wouldn't happen that way. So who really was the aggressor here? Who really was the one making the first move? Who who set out to possibly stab somebody and make this what could be a false claim of self-defense? I have a lot of questions in this case. Megan, Megan, the Megan, the police say something major we're leaving out this to me. This is everything.

1:03:16And I'm so glad that both of you didn't say it. So I get to say it. I don't know what the facts are, but I do know that there are stab wounds to the kid's legs, his hind legs, which would indicate that he was turned away from this guy. End of story on self-defense. Yes, because police say that Digwa, the defendant, was, quote, aggressively pursuing Henry, aggressively pursuing him, leaving a trail of blood. After the first attack, Henry tried to flee, but was pursued and further assaulted, being stabbed four times, Mark. So you're right. It's a great point. But he's he's in court right now claiming and of course, Henry's not there claiming Henry called him a racial slur and that he was worried Henry was going to grab his gun.

1:04:11I'm sorry, his knife. I'm focused on America, his knife and stab him with it because Henry was drunk and verbally aggressive. And I guess in this guy's story, in the mood to commit an assault on this poor, innocent Sikh. OK, it is so predictable. And maybe it's because John and I do this work all the time. You start with a guy who's not going to say, OK, you got me. I stabbed the college kid because I'm aggressive and I've got issues and I didn't like the way he was looking at me or maybe something that he said. He's not going to say that. He knows he's going to the pokey for years if he does.

1:04:49So let's go to the playbook. let's add in something that's the worst you could say about someone especially in that country apparently so he made some of these racial remarks about me aha let's shift it over and make him the criminal and we'll also say he's unarmed but uh he was going to use my weapon and harm me aha okay and it worked so effectively this guy played law enforcement like a fiddle because to this guy who's got injuries. He's dying. He's bleeding out. They put handcuffs on him. If that happened here, people would be looking for a new job for sure. And maybe would find themselves in the pokey.

1:05:27Yeah. And they didn't, they didn't put handcuffs on, on Vikram, the defendant, Jonna. That's what's, it's so outrageous. They took his word for it that a racial slur had been uttered. They put handcuffs on the man who was stabbed and down. They clearly didn't identify or examine him to see whether his claims of having been stabbed were true because they were true. And they were telling him that they weren't. A post-mortem reports News Nation found that he suffered four stab wounds and a cut to his jaw with two of the wounds, as Mark points out, to the back of his legs. Now, I can see how maybe they wouldn't find the back of the legs if it hadn't bled through, whatever, but you do a cursory examination before you decide whether the man needs medical help or not.

1:06:11and they weren't interested at all. So like Elon Musk is threatening right now or offering right now to fund the wrongful death lawsuit by Henry's family against the UK police. I mean, separate and apart from the legal liability or the guilt or innocence of Vikram, there may be something there in the civil courts. There very well may because it's absolutely ridiculous that you're handcuffing somebody who's bleeding out and dying. And what did the police do? I'm wondering when they approached the scene Did they just say to the defendant, hey, you know what? Can you just put that knife in your back pocket for me?

1:06:46Can you not wear it around your neck while we're processing this poor guy who's about to die? Like how? I don't understand how that works. And maybe because I'm not familiar with how they do things over in the UK. But it would never happen here. NYPD walks up to somebody who's wearing a couple of knives around his neck. That guy is going down. He might not get back until they figure it out. And by the way, Megan. You got a full sword? That's crazy. I don't know if he had it that night, but like he clearly walked around with it. Go ahead, Mark. I'm putting myself in the shoes of this guy, the victim.

1:07:18If I see a man walking down the street, holding a knife outward, one that could kill. Wearing it. I might be taking photos. I might be videoing because that would look to me so unusual that I would think something's about to go down. That's all I'm saying. Call me a racist. Maybe I just don't understand. Especially in the UK. That you're you're that that that's a religious thing. OK, kill me, you know, for that. But I would probably think, oh, my. Don't say that. Right. Something's about to happen and I'm going to pull out my phone and keep an eye on him. No, you know what I would do? He was reportedly Henry.

1:07:54Henry was Henry was reportedly speaking to friends on Snapchat. That's why he had the phone. I don't I guess it was like a FaceTime kind of situation when he came across Digwa. They did exchange words. Noak is heard saying, in it bad man, what bad man? You're a bad man. Say you're a bad man. Go on. Digwell responds, I am a bad man. And Noak replies, are you a, and this is the only way I've seen it reported, B dot dot dot before the footage cuts off. And I don't know what that means. I have no idea what B stands for or what he was asking, and I haven't seen it fully reported. Bitch. Police were called to the scene.

1:08:36Bitch. Maybe, but that, like, no one's printing out the word bitch. You know, like, I think they might just be able to tell that he said some word beginning with B. I have no idea. But police were called. They arrested Noack and Digwa claimed he'd been racially abused. His brother, Digwa's brother, says, we've just been attacked by someone racially. We got attacked racially by some white person. The brother says, he physically attacked my brother. We're Sikhs. We wear turbans. And he attacked my brother. The police body cam footage was shown in court. Nowak repeatedly told officers, I've been stabbed.

1:09:13I can't breathe. They put handcuffs on Nowak, who was lying on his side. He was saying, I'm stabbed. The other officer, the officer told Nowak he was under arrest for suspicion of assault. He said, I've been stabbed. A male voice says, I don't think you have, mate. Digwa, the prosecutor says, did not seek help for Nowak. Instead, he accused him of being a racist and being drunk. After he collapsed, police started rendering aid. Digwa now wants you to believe this was all self-defense. If it were self-defense, wouldn't he have said that in the moment, Jonna? Wouldn't he have said, I stabbed him because he was going to stab me?

1:09:51Wouldn't he have said while the guy was lying there dying and his assault charge was turning into a murder charge? He has been stabbed. He has been stabbed. The guy's in handcuffs. He knows he's not going to get away with this shit. So, like, he behaved like a man who had consciousness of guilt. He led with, you know, he made a racial slur. He led with, you know, he made a comment about my turban. You know, it reminds me a lot of that's the buzzword that he knew he needed to say. Like, hands up, don't shoot. Like, that kind of stuff was going on. And he just spewed it out. And the police bought it hook, line, and sinker.

1:10:28And now we have a dead kid. So, yeah, it's really disgusting. He says to the police, he came at me. He barged into me. I was racially and physically abused by Henry Nowak. I was petrified as he pulled out his phone to record his attack. But you know what's not in evidence, Mark? Any video of Henry Nowak saying anything racial whatsoever or friends who had been listening to him prior on Snapchat, taking the witness stand to say, yeah, I did hear him use a racial epithet and referring to these two Sikh guys. None of that. There's been no evidence other than the defendant who's worried about going to prison.

1:11:09Yeah, I suspect that that might not be true. But putting it aside, let's just say, as you said earlier, let's say, because even a prostitute can be raped and even even someone who is a racist, hypothetically, and we're not saying he is, can be, you know, can walk in on the street, not have issues, right? And doesn't deserve to be stabbed. But I keep focusing on, okay, one guy had the knife. The guy who's walking down the street, the alleged perpetrator is walking down the street. How does he fear that the victim is going to get a hold of his knife? Because that's what we're talking about. The moment before stabbing, did the perpetrator reasonably, reasonably believe death or great bodily harm?

1:11:50And you can say, yeah, I believed he was going to get my knife. How, though? How was he going to get it? You had it. It's not like he was grabbing at it and he took it. Be detailed. How was he going to do that? Not just in theory he could get my knife, so I just stabbed him. And I think that that's at best what the guy's claiming. Well, there's more to the story because there are some key videos. It's not like our Florida courts, God bless you, Mark, where we have this sunshine lawn and we get to see everything that happens. Over in the UK, you see nothing. So they're not releasing even the evidence publicly, at least for now.

1:12:25So I only have descriptions of the videos that they're showing to the jury. But apparently there was a video shown to the jury of Noack scrambling over a fence to try to escape Digwa after he was stabbed. And a separate video shows Digwa and his brother accused Noack of racially and verbally attacking Digwa. And Noack can be heard denying that. They're like, you called us a racial epithet or whatever. and Noack in his dying declaration denies it. Digwa is heard saying, no one stabbed you, bro. You're something up. I presume effed up. You're drunk. Meanwhile, he knows full well he stabbed him. That's not even in contention in the court case.

1:13:05But in the moment, he's trying to tell the man he stabbed that he didn't stab him. And the dying man is saying, I'm stabbed and I did not call you anything racial. Another video was played to the court in which Digwa's father was there. He was traveling around, I guess, with his whole family, saying he's pretending. A minute ago, he was talking to you guys. Now he's trying to get up and going to leave. Throughout the video, Noah can be seen lying on the floor as Digwa's family and neighbors tell him to sit up and listen to this. Two days after the murder, reports the Southampton Times, police covertly recorded a conversation that took place between Vikram Digwa and his brother Gurpreet and a conversation, a transcript of it was read to the jury.

1:13:49At one point, the defendant's brother tells him, quote, you should say it was self-defense. I mean, this seems open and shut to me and I'd be willing to go that far, Mark, if it weren't for the crazy attitudes about race in the UK. Agreed, agreed. They've truly gone nuts. But it's how the prosecutors handle it. They need to say there's no evidence of him using any racial slurs. But let's just say he did. That's not what we're here for. He's not being prosecuted for that. The issue is whether it's self-defense. And when you've got stab wounds to the back of his legs, they can't justifiably say that that occurred.

1:14:35There's just no way. He's now claiming, Vikram, the defendant, that Henry punched him and pulled his hair. And that's why he believed that he was, quote, going to stab me. I thought I had to do something because I was afraid he was going to stab me with my own care pen. He told the court he was walking to fetch some curried chips from a car when he met Noah coming the other way. That may be true. He was drunk, barged into me, turned around and said to me, you could have moved up a little bit more. Said he then used a racially offensive term before adding, do you think you're a bad man? I'm from Essex.

1:15:16You don't know what people from Essex are on. That Noack started to videotape the defendant. I went to block the phone. I grabbed it as well. This is when he punched me. He pulled my turban. All of this would be on camera. It would be on the video recording. The jury would have seen or heard some of that. And John, not only do we have the brother saying, say it was self-defense. And the father being like, you're fine. Nothing happened to you as his son has just stabbed somebody four times. But the mother is also on trial because she's accused of hiding the knife. She allegedly hid the murder weapon for her son, which I'm going to guess never tried a criminal case, but I'm going to guess probably had some blood on it.

1:16:02yeah yeah this is a family that wants to lie together to avoid being found guilty in this case you know another i want to go back to the point that mark made earlier with the knife wounds on the back of the victim's legs here's why because first of all if this defendant is so much of a little bitch that he thought pulling hair would be would justify lethal force then He's got another problem. But this is different than somebody who shoots someone as they're running away. Now, you know, if you shoot someone as they're running away, the threat is probably over. And you, too, will be prosecuted for that.

1:16:39But if you stab somebody on their backside, you have to physically be pursuing that person if they're running away. You don't just get to stand. And there's video. Right. So this video of him running over, trying to get over this fence with this guy continuing pursuit. This defendant could not have been in fear at that point. And I'm going to guess at any point, but he could not have been in fear of bodily harm at that point. If somebody is running away and you have the night and you have to go after the person who you say you were in fear of. Yeah, I really hope they do the right thing. Those stabs to the legs.

1:17:16Further evidence is anger, not fear. The guy was angry. in the civil suit that's inevitably coming i'm sure i don't know uk civil law when it comes to wrongful death suits but assuming theirs is like ours and you can bring one the cops are going to have to answer for whether they did know this guy victor vikram digwa whether he was known to law enforcement and whether there'd been other incidents like the one i just showed you that we got our hands on, showing him angry on the street with multiple knives, including a sword in his hand, a sword, a long sword in his hand unsheathed. And why, if that's so, when they approached this scene, they didn't give the victim the benefit of the doubt.

1:18:07Why did they jump to accept this guy's word and not that of the man who was lying on the ground bleeding? And the answer, of course is skin color. It's very obvious the UK has got a pattern now of this. The way this case turns out matters, and we're all going to be keeping a very close eye on it. Okay, let's move on. Something a little lighter, not for the poor woman being accused of this stuff, but for us. This poor woman at JPMorgan Chase, Lorna Hajdini, has had her reputation ruined by what I think is some sort of wacko psycho. That's my opinion. We've been covering the story, so the audience has a working familiarity with it, I think.

1:18:47But just for those who don't know, these two worked at JPMorgan Chase together. They're high up, bankers, getting well paid, I think. And this guy is, he is Indian as well, of Asian descent, and she's white. And he alleges that she engaged in sexual abuse and racial bigotry, and that she was his supervisor. She denies every single part of that. Racial abuse, sexual abuse, and that she was his supervisor. It's a true he said, she said. His tale is so bizarre and detailed and crazy that if it's true, she's a psychopath who should never be employed by anybody again. Her response is every word of it is a complete lie, a malicious lie.

1:19:38We never had anything approaching a sexual encounter. her. I've never even been to half of the places he mentions in his complaint. I wasn't his supervisor. And there's something seriously wrong with this man. And now she has fought back. One of the questions we were wondering is like, if somebody just think about it, if somebody who was in your company or your law firm made the craziest ass allegations about you, like that you committed rape on them and like were this lunatic at every turn trying to sexually harass them and coerce them into sexual acts against their will, you would, you'd sue them for defamation.

1:20:16You'd be like, this is so effed up. The problem is generally you can't sue for defamation when the allegations are simply made in an HR complaint or in a legal complaint that gets filed with a court. And that appears to be the case here. But she's, she's filed a defamation lawsuit now anyway. And she said some of these things. This is, these are all lies, all of them. And they're malicious lies. They were told with malice, which you tell me, Mark, but my understanding is that's how you get around the general rule that you can't sue somebody for their legal pleading. Because if you can allege they did it with actual malice, then you can.

1:20:54That's the lane. And hopefully that's a lane that she can pursue. I am not as confident as you. I don't know. It sounds to me like it's been made up. The story is absolutely bizarre, but I don't know. So I go to what can be proven. In her answer, and I read through that very carefully, she's saying things like, I was never even in his apartment when he claims certain things occurred. Okay, we got cameras everywhere now. Does it corroborate what he's saying? Does it support what she's saying? If it's just he said, she said, then there's something wrong. It's more likely that didn't occur if there's not a single witness, a text, an email, a person, a busload of nuns, somebody who can support what the guy's claiming?

1:21:44Well, I mean, it would be wrong to say there's no one because now he's submitted two third party witness affidavits to the court. One third party who says it was my apartment where some of these events occurred and I saw some stuff. and one who says, I was present on the night in September of 2024 when a sexual assault allegedly took place. They say, I don't have the details in front of me, but basically he's got two witnesses now. One says, witness one whose apartment it was, that Hajdini invited herself in there and that the plaintiff rejected Hajdini's sexual advances saying I'm not interested.

1:22:27and uh i guess that both of these what do you make of that witnesses claim that they were eyewitnesses to this are we dismissing those i don't know because i don't know who they were yeah i am i am because i don't know who they are i don't know what kind of credibility they have and this guy seems like a psychopath to me i'm happy to come out and say i'm wrong if it turns out i'm wrong uh you know what do i like you i don't know what do i know i want to know what jonna thinks there jonna what do you think i'm eager to hear what you have to say what do you We don't know the relationship of these two friends who gave affidavits.

1:23:00We don't know the relationship to the original plaintiff. You know, the woman is now countersuing. So is it plausible that these people are like, hey, if you win, you cut me in. Here's what I'm going to say. No one's ever going to be able to prove otherwise. That bothers me, number one. Number two, the thing that bothers me is here's a person who invited the these two parties up into their apartment where the alleged plaintiff male and then the woman were in this other person's bedroom and then fooling around, apparently. And then the woman came out and said, why don't you join us? It doesn't make sense.

1:23:40Like if you if it's your apartment and you're inviting two friends in, I guess. And to what? You know, excuse me, I'm going to go make some popcorn. You guys just use my bedroom. Do whatever you want. I'll be out here. It doesn't it. That part doesn't add up. She is categorically. Never been in that apartment. None of this ever happened. She I read through her her her complaint where she says she never touched the guy. Like, I thought this was going to be all right. Is this another issue of consent? We were in a relationship, but it was all sensual. She's saying, nope, never, never touched him, never had a relationship with this guy.

1:24:16What do we know about her lawyer? And let's not forget J.P. Morgan. J.P. Morgan says they conducted an internal investigation because this guy did bring a complaint to HR. So, I mean, I'm sure J.P. Morgan took this as seriously as a heart attack. Like, this is one of their top executives. They seem to really like her. And so they wouldn't have messed around with this. They would have made sure she hadn't done this or if she had that they found out. they say she cooperated fully with the investigation and he didn't. They say she turned over her cell phone, said, I'm an open book, like, go look through my emails, look through anything you want.

1:24:51And he didn't. So why didn't his alleged witnesses come forward to the hearing? Why didn't he say, speak to these two people? Maybe he did. And JP Morgan's lying, but I feel like they might have mentioned that. If he had all these harassing text messages from her, where are they? Why wouldn't he submit those to J.P. Morgan and to HR? So that's what I want to know about his lawyer. Who is his lawyer? Do we know anything about him? Is this guy an ambulance chaser who just wants his 15 minutes? Or is he from a reputable firm who we would think would have vetted this case, particularly because it's probably out of contingency.

1:25:31so he thinks that he's going to get a percentage of whatever is recovered here so he has to believe in the case unless it's again he's being paid by the hour but typically contingency i don't know but i i what i do know is that a year earlier he was on it wasn't legal zoom but that's a similar website to the one he used where you go on there and you can get a legal document and you can actually get a referral for legal advice he went on again it's not legal zoom it's some equivalent website. And he started typing in, I've been the victim of harassment. He said it there by a he, not a she, and at a different bank.

1:26:10He named a different bank. And it was Morgan Stanley, which is not the same as JP Morgan Chase. He said, I'm at Morgan Stanley, which I understand he actually did work at. I'll correct myself if wrong, but I believe he actually did work there. so he's saying it was a guy i was harassed at morgan stanley how do i like file a lawsuit and then they give you a referral and i think he he found a lawyer off of that website now that could be one of two things because she's claiming he made these exact allegations before in her defamation case she's saying he's a serial liar like or or at least a serial complaint the most unlucky unlucky fella in the world everywhere he goes the women and men both to throw themselves at him.

1:26:58Can't resist. Do oral on me. If you've seen a picture of this guy, challenge. I don't believe it. But yeah, so she's claiming that he's made these allegations against somebody else at a different bank before. That could be true based on that online complaint, or it could have been him testing his allegations, like putting his allegations against her in disguise onto this, onto this website. Cause I have to go back and see, it was like, I think he filled it out while he was already in the employee of JP Morgan chase, but was just fresh off of an employee at the other place. Um, Oh, okay. Wait now this just in, this is like this, this day we're getting breaking news on all of our stories in the middle of our stories.

1:27:43Okay. Now, Lorna Hunchdini reporting from the daily mail has revealed the sickening messages she received after this guy accused her of making him a sex slave. Her attorneys have entered three emails that she recently received into the docket as exhibits to further illustrate the havoc that this guy Rana's claims are having on her life. And one sickening message received on April 30th, a sender whose name is redacted, wished vicious harm on her and urged her to commit suicide. I hope you get gang raped to the point you want to kill yourself after you realize what a worthless whore you are. You effing piece of S, kill yourself.

1:28:21I sincerely hope your family all die slow, painful deaths from aggressive cancers. Wow, it's lovely. I mean, honestly, that's a day in the life here on the MK Show, but I understand for civilians that that would be awful. Two other emailers propositioned her for sex, one from May 1st. Your new toy. It reads, my name is redacted. And if you are in need of a slave, I've been searching for a master. That Arab guy is an effing P word, LOL. If all I had to do was F you and do it real good, I'd be the president of Chase, LOL. Every man in America wants to F you now. Hope I get a turn. Another writes, new slave.

1:28:57OMG, you bad girl. Fly me out, damn. You got hips. I want to behind you over the desk. And OK, you get the you get the gist. So this is what this woman's been dealing with. And why is that in there, Johnna, to show us what? That's evidence. I mean, it's not evidence time in her case, but why is her lawyer submitting that? That she's been damaged, that this caused damage to her reputation. It ruined her personal life. It ruined her professional life. How much longer is she going to have to endure texts and emails like that from random strangers because this case has really gone viral? And if this guy is, in fact, lying, that's criminal.

1:29:35That's just not something subject, in my opinion, not just something subject to him having to write her a check or somebody having to write her a check for these kind of damages. if you could ever restore. What is it? Harassment? Is it criminal harassment? I'd say at the very least, it's criminal harassment. And, you know, well, because defamation cannot be criminal. But damn, you know, maybe it ought to be in a case like this, because her reputation is completely ruined. No, but let's talk about it. If this guy, and this is her theory, and to your point, Mark, it's a good caution. We don't know.

1:30:08Me backing her is just what my gut tells me, having read his allegations. But I've been wrong before. I've been wrong many times, so I could be wrong here. But if her theory of the case is right, he has made up the most absurd, vicious lies. I mean, I just pulled a couple of the highlights from his complaint that she said, if you don't F me soon, I'm going to ruin you. Never forget, I Fing own you. If you don't F my brains out tonight, I'm going to sabotage your promotion. That she called him her little Asian appetizer, my curry in a hurry, little brown boy, fall in line, brownie. I own you, brownie.

1:30:39I own your life, you gook. brown boy boy terrorist smelly indian curry man that the entire team would call him um you know she allegedly said i'm still your boss and what i say here goes trust me i own you if you don't f me soon i'll ruin you never forget i effing own you um she doesn't know she's not she wasn't her hands she wasn't his boss anyway before rubbing his neck and head i mean this is vile stuff you want this executive director life you want to get paid like me you're going to need to earn it my little Arab boy toy that she propositioned for oral sex in the office. Birthday BJ for the brown boy, my little brown boy.

1:31:17Don't forget I own you. Don't fight it. You smell so good, she allegedly said two days later. I really want to suck your long black you know what right now. This could be you one day referencing senior leaders as long as you start pleasing me. It's so vile. It's so X rated. and then actually includes an allegation that she gave him rohypnol and Viagra so that she could knock him out but get his unit to work. We actually promised the audience an answer to whether or not that's medically possible. It turns out it might be. I don't believe she did it, but it turns out it might be. We reached out to Dr.

1:31:57Zaid Fadul, a Harvard-trained physician, U.S. Air Force flight surgeon, chief medical officer at WoundCare360, and said all of this would be extremely dangerous and create cardiovascular and neurological risks, but said erectile function drugs can still work despite severe sedation or incapacitation. And this is a crucial medical and forensic point. He says erections come from two pathways, psychogenic driven by conscious arousal in the brain and reflexogenic, a spinal reflex at the S2, S4 level that works with conscious input. But hypnol knocks out the conscious psychogenic pathway, but the spinal reflex arc is reflectively protected from that top-down shutdown.

1:32:40So reflex erections could still happen in a sedated or unconscious person. Again, an outrageous allegation if untrue, even more outrageous if true, frankly. So why wouldn't there be a criminal charge against him, Mark, if all that stuff I just read to you is made up out of a whole clot just to ruin a woman? Yeah, in theory, there should be. I don't know if there's anything on the books where, you know, there is some criminal offense being committed. If he reported this to law enforcement, then there would be and it's not true, then there would be a crime. What I'm thinking of, though, is Jesse Smollett.

1:33:16Right. The details were so extraordinary and so outrageous. Initially, most jumped on the bandwagon and said, well, it has to be true. I mean, and it totally wasn't. And the problem that I have with it is not just what it did in that moment, but what it does for future victims. They have their word questioned more so because of people like this, assuming this guy is lying. So I agree with Jonna. Anything you can do to harm this man in a lawful way is coming his way and is justified based upon the horrific actions that he's taking, assuming he's lying. You know, John, Adam Carolla was on the air with me when this first broke, and he made a great point, which is if she did this stuff, there's going to be more.

1:34:03That is not the behavior of a one-timer, you know, who just unleashed that torrent of alleged harassment and abuse, including an alleged rape, just on one guy. Just, you know, he was the first one. No way. There should be a line of guys who claim me too, if this is real. But listen to this, more breaking news. Rana, the plaintiff, now the defendant in the defamation case, the man claiming he was harassed, just gave an interview to some paper called The Juggernaut, which is a New York based news website that focuses on South Asian news and says, and I quote, The biggest thing here is if you call this fake, it's just gender inequality says if the roles were reversed, what do you think would happen?

1:34:56So he's claiming the reason we don't believe him is he's a man. And I'm I will cop to that in part. Chirayu Rana is his name. Chirayu. I will cop to that in part because I believe it is obvious bullshit that as he writes in this complaint, she went down on him and gave him a blowjob against his will. And instead of like getting out of there, whatever, he just stood there crying. That's his allegation. Time after time, he was drugged or he was made to cryingly submit his penis for a blowjob by her threats that he wouldn't make it at JPMorgan Chase unless he did this. He's right. I don't believe that.

1:35:41And there is a gender dynamic at play. And that's what but that's where the gender dynamic comes in. And I don't mean to sound crass, but it's plumbing. OK, she's not going to be able to force herself on him. if listen if that were happening and he wasn't into it that would be quite quite obvious and what was she doing uh throwing viagra and rehypnol down his throat and rubbing his you know adam's apple like you're giving a pills to a dog like how was he consuming those like i don't understand why is she going good question why is she going to some stranger's apartment why is she throwing herself on the man who clearly doesn't want to just sit there and cries through uh fellatio apparently why and and to adam's point since we don't have men coming out of the woodwork saying yeah this crazy bitch did it to me too don't you think if she were so abnormal friends people in her world would be like oh it was just a matter of time we knew this was going to happen like she seems like a perfectly uh respectable person she's had no issues at this job for she's been there for 11 years.

1:36:48Like, you know, this kind of thing would leave clues that just don't seem to be there. Yes, I agree with everything you said. And I think, look, I don't think this case gets dismissed on the papers, right? Like on the, on the pleadings, unfortunately for her, because she'd love to see it dismissed, like for a judge to read his complaint and say, absolutely not. But it's exactly the wrong kind of case for that. He's, he, if taken the way you judge a motion to dismiss is the judge takes the allegations as true and says, if I accept all of them as true, has this person's pled pleaded a case? Plead and pleaded are both correct.

1:37:26I just like pleaded better. The answer would clearly be yes. If everything he wrote is true, J.K. Morgan should have to pay and a lot, right? And a lot. And so this will get past the motion to dismiss phase. It will go into discovery, meaning both of them are going to have to give depositions. His two witnesses will have to go on the record and have their credibility tested. All of his phone records will be turned over. He cannot keep those secret. We're going to see them all. Metadata, all the location services showing where he was, where she was on the various days in question, that's all discoverable.

1:38:03Even like car data, most people in New York don't drive, but it's possible they have car data that will be discoverable and will show locations. like we're going to learn. There are ways of kind of learning the truth in modern day America, and I think we are going to learn it. So, you know, put a pin in that case for now. Let's keep going. Can you guys stay over a little bit today or do you have to scram? I'll hang with you, Meg. I have to. Awesome. OK. OK, I'll try not to abuse your your time, but we we haven't gotten to a couple of cases and we should. There's Alec Murdoch. So Alec Murdoch gets a new trial.

1:38:39He's convicted of double murder for killing his wife and his son, Paul, 19 years old. And, uh, or no, the, sorry, there's, there's, yeah, Paul was 19 and Buster's older and, um, called a family annihilator. He did it to generate sympathy for himself as his financial world was falling apart. He had embezzled from his law firm. He didn't have the money, uh, in like the firm accounts that he was supposed to, cause he'd been spending it allegedly on a drug habit. The noose was tightening around him on these financial crimes. And in order to make himself look sympathetic, this is the prosecution's theory.

1:39:15We don't know for sure why he did it. He killed his wife and his son. It's very vile, awful story, but he was convicted. And then it just got overturned because it turned out the clerk of court, this lunatic Becky Hill decided to make it chit chat time with the jurors practically every time they walked by her as the trial was wrapping up. She's so sweet. Look how like matronly she looks with her little like doily sweater, whatever she looks, she's a liar. She's like a pathological liar in my view. She manipulated the jury. The theory was she did it because she was hawking a book. She had a ghostwriter who was writing it with her and she thought she'd make more money.

1:39:50There was actual testimony to this. If the jury found him guilty. She's a psycho. If anyone, like that's, that was the testimony. So, okay. He got a new trial, which I agreed with. You had a juror testify. She did say manipulative things to me about his guilt. And that was one of the reasons I found him guilty. Ball game. That's it. Ball game. I don't have to convince my two defense attorney friends here at that. But now he, Alec Murdoch, has filed a civil claim against her saying you deprived me of my constitutional constitutional right to a fair trial by an impartial jury. and he wants her to pay up, saying if he gets paid, the money's not going to go into his pocket.

1:40:36It's going to go into a defense fund that's paying out to his victims. But he does want Becky Hill or I guess maybe her state insurer, I don't know, to have to pay. How do you like this lawsuit, Mark? OK, first of all, this was my rant on the last Positively Legal. It's available on the MK True Crime Network. You want to check it out. I can't stand this Becky Hill. OK, she knew what she was doing. She went in there and numerous times it wasn't just one comment. Numerous times said things to jurors that tainted this this fundamental due process that we're supposed to have and turned it into crap.

1:41:16So anything you can do to her to harm her further than the three years she got. And by the way, three years probation. Wrong P word. OK, I really do believe that she should have gone to jail for her misconduct, for her perjury, all the things that she did wrong. The lawsuit against her. Hmm. I don't know about that. I think you should tattoo her name on his shoulder prominently because she gave him a get out of jail free card. Not really because he's stuck in there for the federal thing. But now I actually had it. Now we have to say I was wondering it like allegedly were they were they possibly in collusion?

1:41:52You know, was it possible like this was a deal? Johnny, your thoughts. Oh, that would be a very interesting theory. I don't think so. I think Becky Hill was really in it for herself. Some of the stuff that came out that she's having private meetings and private bathrooms with the foreperson on the jury. She was literally telling them how to vote. Don't listen to them. That's insane. And this person has a very big role in a court because she's basically the right hand of the judge. You know, you think that she's, you know, mirroring whatever the judge is probably thinking. It was horrible what she did.

1:42:25He deserves a new trial. Will there be a different outcome in the future? That's yet to be seen. But he absolutely deserved a new trial because of her, solely because of her. OK. All right. We carry over just a bit on the opposite side of this break. Mark will be here. We'll find out about Shanna. I don't know. She might. She may or may not. Don't don't get too attached. Don't go away. We have more. When there are supply constraints on commodities, prices surge. You see it with fuel prices, with everything happening in the Strait of Hormuz. And you know what else is a limited commodity? Gold. They mine it out of the ground, and when it's gone, it's gone.

1:43:02Governments cannot just print more of it, and that's why everyone from central banks to savvy savers consider diversifying with gold. If you've been thinking about it for years but have still never moved some of your savings into physical gold, consider Birch Gold Group. Now through May 29th, Birch Gold is giving first-time gold buyers a rebate of up to$10 ,000 on qualifying purchases. For details and a free information kit on diversifying into gold, text MK to the number 989898. Birch Gold can help you convert an existing IRA or 401k into a tax-sheltered IRA in physical gold. Text MK to the number 989898 to see if you qualify for a first-time gold buyer rebate of up to$10 ,000.

1:43:48The wrongs we must right. The fights we must win. The future we must secure together for our nation. This is what's in front of us. This determines what's next for all of us. We are Marines. We were made for this.

1:44:17Every bold journey starts with a decision to go. And if you're ready, the Defender is too. This is a vehicle built for more, whether you're heading off the grid or just getting out of town for the weekend. Defender is a true icon reimagined for a new generation. Its rugged exterior is built from durable materials and tested in the toughest conditions. Inside, it's modern, functional, and refined, with smart storage and premium touches that keep you comfortable wherever the road leads. It's packed with tech like 3D surround cameras, clear sight ground and rear views, driver assist features, and an intuitive infotainment system.

1:44:53With three models, the Defender 90, 110, and 130, there's a Defender for every kind of adventure, from city streets to remote trails. This is a vehicle that, like you, is capable of great things. Explore the full Defender lineup at LandRoverUSA.com. Hey, everyone. It's me, Megan Kelly. I've got some exciting news. I now have my very own channel on Sirius XM. It's called the Megyn Kelly Channel, and it is where you will hear the truth, unfiltered, with no agenda, and no apologies. Along with the Megyn Kelly Show, you're going to hear from people like Mark Halperin, Link Lauren, Maureen Callahan, Emily Jashinsky, Jesse Kelly, Real Clear Politics, and many more.

1:45:35It's bold, no BS news. Only on the Megyn Kelly Channel, Sirius XM 111, and on the Sirius XM app.

1:45:46Mark Eiglarsh is the co-host of Positively Legal, and he's back with me now. Go and subscribe. Wherever you get a podcast, you can get this one. Just type in MK True Crime, and it will pop up. Or you can type in Positively Legal, if that's your thing. All the places you can get it are listed if you just type in mktruecrime.com as well. All right. Mark, great to see you again. Sorry that we lost Jonna, but she had some important court stuff to do. So next case I wanted to get to is what happened in the Tyler Robinson prosecution this week. He is the man accused of murdering our friend Charlie Kirk.

1:46:19And they are having a lot of contention in advance of this trial. It has not gone smoothly. It's a really fierce battle between the prosecution and the defense on virtually every issue. And this week was no different. different. The prosecution has decided that it wants to conduct a, it's chosen a preliminary hearing to prove to the court that it has enough evidence to go forward with the charges against Robinson. And that's scheduled. But in advance of it, the defense made a motion. And this is where I want to start. They want the press kept out. They didn't want the press to be able to have access to the courthouse through cameras when the actual trial goes down.

1:47:05They didn't want cameras in the courtroom and they lost that motion. The judge said, we're going to have cameras. We'll limit how they're used, but we are going to have a camera. Then they said, all right, at the preliminary hearing where the prosecution has to show its cards and say, this is the case that we have against him. And the judge makes a decision about whether there's probable cause to hold this guy over for trial. He's going to. They said, we want the media out for most of that. And the prosecution said, why? They don't get kicked out. Like the press is there to represent the people.

1:47:36Why would we kick them out? And the argument was that it's necessary to protect Tyler Robinson's right to a fair trial and to avoid contaminating the jury pool in this already high profile case. According to the court filings and the arguments last week, they argued the media has already created prejudicial and misleading coverage, that some of the evidence expected at the hearing may ultimately turn out to be inadmissible at the trial. And so they don't want the media hearing about it and reporting on it. And then I guess specifically they want us not to have access to alleged discord and text messages.

1:48:16That's a forum that Tyler Robinson and his trans furry lover, Lance Twiggs, communicated on a lot, Discord. It's like a gaming type social media app where you can talk. Alleged Discord and text messages. Purported confession evidence. Tyler Robinson alleged to have confessed. Surveillance and shooting videos. Witness statements and other forensic evidence. So what do you think is going to happen? And I'll just start with that because it's not unusual to have the media at a preliminary hearing in a high profile case. So do they have a leg to stand on? No. And let me just say this. This is coming from someone who has been on the receiving end of all the things they complain about.

1:49:03I can think of one high profile case in particular. My client was getting killed in the media. And I'm referring to Scott Peterson, not the one who killed his wife, but is the other one. It was accused of not running in to kill the killer at the Parkland Marjory Stoneman Douglas shooting. And everything, everything that they were printing seemed to be against us. A lot of it was false. And there's no way to stop it. I mean, if media wants to run with a story, they can run with a story. This judge could take some type of action. I don't think the judge is going to just because the defense is asking for it.

1:49:36And by the way, every time the defense files a motion, as much as we want justice, don't roll your eyes, people. That's what you want. You don't want this case being tried twice. So the defense needs to do all those things on the checklist to make sure to the appellate court they've rendered effective assistance of counsel so that not if but when this creep is convicted, this won't come back on appeal. The thing is, it's always the case that the evidentiary standard used at a preliminary hearing is very different from the one used at the trial. Like, of course, more evidence is going to be presented because the standards are different and easier at the preliminary hearing.

1:50:22And the media always hears that. And the way it's always handled is the media is trusted to write in their pieces. This is just a preliminary hearing. This is just a preliminary showing of what they might try to introduce. It's not the final final. And the media, I mean, and the public probably disregards that. We don't know. But this this is handleable. Yeah. I mean, it's handled in every case. I'm not saying that the defense's argument is meritless. In fact, like most legal theories, the courts balance. So on one side, the information that is getting out there could potentially make it more difficult to find fair and impartial jurors.

1:51:02On the other side is our right to have access to the truth, our right to see what's going on in our court system. And when you balance that, knowing the history of high profile cases, how look at OJ, you know, look at look at go on and on. There there's still there are still people who can say, in spite of what we've seen on TV, we can give the defendant a fair trial. And that's the only standard. So, yes, I think that it favors showing people. what really is going on. Look at Casey Anthony. Oh, sure. Was there ever a case talked more about than Casey Anthony? There might have been some equal, but I don't think more.

1:51:43Maybe OJ, which was just the biggest of all time. But his is another good case. It was discussed nonstop in the media. Both of those two people were acquitted. That's correct. So it is very possible to get acquitted, notwithstanding ubiquitous media coverage. I don't think the defense is onto something here. I don't think the judge is going to allow this. But, you know, It's a very high profile, very sensitive case, so I don't know. Here's the second thing. They argued that the prosecutors worsened the problem of misinformation in the media by giving an interview to Fox News in response to a defense submission that the prosecution felt was misleading.

1:52:25And so this is reference to the bullet casing and the autopsy, which went everywhere. Long story short, the defense filed a motion seeking like the underlying or additional ATF reporting on the bullet fragments and the autopsy that was done on our friend. And in the defense motion, they had language that led a fair, you know, person to conclude the bullet fragment that was found in the body did not match the gun that Tyler Robinson had that day, that it was a non-match the way they worded it. And this went everywhere. I remember where I was when I read it. Like, holy shit, what? But it was the headline on the Daily Mail.

1:53:18And before it could get like revised at all, it had already gone everywhere. And it really very much seemed like it was confirmation that that guy's gun, that 30-06 gun from his grandpa, was definitively not the murder weapon. So the prosecution says that is why we went out and spoke with very limited media. And here is the one example that is being objected to by the defendants. They gave a taped interview to a reporter who put it in her package for Fox News. And here it is. The examiners were not able to find enough detail on the fragments to be able to make a determination as to whether or not they can tie the bullet to the rifle.

1:54:02So that's just a small snippet out of context doesn't make sense. But it was the prosecution trying to say the fact that they couldn't have an affirmative match with what was left of the bullet does not mean this bullet didn't come from Tyler Robinson. Like saying that there's no fingerprint evidence available doesn't mean he didn't touch a weapon, let's just say. So they're just saying we can't we don't have anything of value to present to the jury. to establish the bullet coming from that gun, but we're not saying it's inconsistent with that gun. Well, the defense is purporting to be hop and mad that the prosecution went out and spoke to the press saying, if you didn't like what we wrote in our motion, you should have filed your own motion.

1:54:43You should have objected to the court. You could have called an emergency, a request for emergency hearing. You could have handled it inside this courtroom, but instead you ran to the media. And not only was that inappropriate, but it violated rules of professional conduct and the gag order in this case. So we pulled the rules of professional conduct, Mark, and this is what they say. The gag order itself says as follows, reads as follows. Lawyers in this case shall strictly abide by rule 3.6 of the Utah professional rules of conduct. What does rule 3.6 say? It reads as follows. Rule 3.6 prohibits a lawyer from making, quote, an extrajudicial statement, meaning out of court, that the lawyer knows or reasonably should know will be disseminated by means of public communication, will be, you know, public.

1:55:37So far, that's what this is. And will have - Check, check, check. So far. And will have, yeah, I agree. So far, they've got them. And will have a substantial likelihood of materially prejudicing an adjudicative proceeding in the matter. So did this have a substantial likelihood of materially prejudicing this trial in any way? I don't believe so, but I would certainly make the argument if I'm the defense lawyer. Point is, stay off the media. Why are you trying your case in the media at all? If the defense didn't raise this in the media, if, and I don't know all the facts, but let's just say what you said is true.

1:56:17The defense filed pleadings, documents with the court. They didn't go on Fox News. They didn't go out there and do a media tour on their points. They filed something in writing. The prosecution then should just file something in writing and we keep it in court. Them running to Fox News. I think it's a fair argument that they're, you know, going outside the rules of 3.6. It's not a bad argument, actually, now that I think about it, because, yeah, that would be typically when there's a gag order saying don't don't talk about this case outside of this courthouse. Yeah. And then you see an outrageous motion and you as a prosecutor are pissed.

1:56:55You're like, everyone now believes that the gun definitively did not match the bullet that was recovered. And I've got to stop this. I've got to correct the record on this. Yeah. I mean, typically what you would do is you would file your own motion expressing your outrage. Right. Like you can be as pissed off as you want in your pleading. And then the Daily Mail would have gotten that, too. There we go. They would have had a day to headline. Right. But instead he spoke to the media. So you're right. He actually could have his hand slapped. I don't think it's going to do much. Do you? Like, what would be the consequence?

1:57:26No, no. And they have their own PR people. You know, the question is, well, are they going to pick it up the same way they picked up the defenses thing? And you never know. So just make sure you got good PR people and you have great relations with the media. Say, can you make sure that this runs? You know, you do that behind the scenes and then it runs and they're picking up from the pleadings, not because you're going out there and spewing your truth. The prosecution is arguing they had a right to speak to reporters to correct misinformation about an inconclusive preliminary finding by ballistic experts saying here we were representing the true nature of that report.

1:58:02We did not make a statement of opinion about guilt. We'll see. Okay. Meanwhile, they did reveal this, Mark, that at the preliminary hearing, the prosecution is going to present not the actual trans furry lover of Tyler Robinson, whose testimony is going to be very important in this case. He's the one who allegedly received the confession from Tyler Robinson, who was on the receiving end of those texts and an alleged note confessing. Game set and match. This guy's going to be critical. I mean, if they believe this person, we're done. That's it. That's it. Yeah. Yep. He's critical. But at the preliminary hearing, they've revealed now that they're only going to be presenting a video statement by this guy.

1:58:45That clip will be the first public statement from Lance Twiggs, 22, since the murder. Now, they say he's fled Utah. He's lying low in Texas. What do you make of that? Is that normal or abnormal to take a key witness and just show a video of him? Completely normal because you're talking about a judge and the standard is much lower. If you're talking about a jury, you get that person in the jury box, you pay for them to fly in, you put them up at a hotel, which is all lawful and totally normal and typical. And you put them there so they can look directly at the jurors when you ask the questions so they can be believed and credible.

1:59:21This is just a hearing in front of a judge. It's typical. A lot of these hearings, they don't even do a video. They'll just say, here, judge, here's a sworn statement the detective took. and a judge who's smart can just read it and accept it as fact. You don't need to bring that person in. Makes sense. All so illuminating. Thank you. As always, my friend, you are positively legal. I'm trying, Megan. It's tough. It's tough. Nobody's paying me to come in second place. Megan, it's rough to defend people. Come on. In the law and the news, it is tough to remain positive. But I feel like we've both done a good job of it, generally.

2:00:00generally speaking. Yeah, yeah. Thank you, Megan. Appreciate you. Lots of love. All right. Check out Positively Legal or wherever you get your podcasts. It's free. And I want to tell you two things. This just breaking here as we get ready to close out the show. Sad news. Tulsi Gabbard is okay, but she is stepping down. Tulsi Gabbard. And producing the following statement, I am deeply grateful for the trust President Trump placed in me and for the opportunity to lead the office of the Director of National Intelligence for the last year and a half. Unfortunately, I must submit my resignation effective June 30th.

2:00:39My husband, Abraham, has recently been diagnosed with an extremely rare form of bone cancer. He faces major challenges in the coming weeks and months. At this time, I must step away from public service to be by his side and fully support him through this battle. Oh, it's just devastating news on so many fronts. I am so sorry to hear this about Abraham. They have a wonderful relationship, and it doesn't surprise me at all that with that kind of diagnosis, she would step away to go be with him. God bless her and him as they take on this battle. That's daunting and dwarfs everything. On a separate note, I'm so sorry for us because we need her in that job.

2:01:23We really need her in that job. You know, it's just, I'm so sad about it because it feels like this great sort of bipartisan coalition that President Trump put together is falling off as he rounds into the year and a half mark of his presidency. You know, Marty McCary was pushed out at FDA. RFKJ has had his wings clipped repeatedly by people who do not support the Maha agenda. And Tulsi Gabbard was, you know, a great example of a Democrat, former Democrat, who went onto the Trump team because we wanted to do things differently. So was Joe Kent. He wasn't a Democrat, but I'm just saying he was more non-interventionalist and in an important role.

2:02:12And he stepped down from the National Counterterrorism Center after the Iran war. And Tulsi, who's also non-interventionalist and is in a really important role and has been very brave in it, I must say. It just sucks to lose her. There's not another Tulsi. That's the problem. You can get another person to run, of course. Of course. There's lots of people who want to serve in President Trump's administration, but there's only one Tulsi Gabbard. This is an important role. This is the person who oversees all of the intelligence agencies. And it's her job to come up with that presidential daily brief and make sure President Trump really knows what's what when it comes to the intel that these agencies are putting together.

2:02:51My God, it's a huge job, especially with some of these agencies that we do not trust, how they try to manipulate a president into pushing their own agenda. And those agencies had to go through Tulsi Gabbard, who's not easily manipulated and is smart and had a background in intelligence and in public service, having served in the House for many years. And it's going to be tough. Prayers for her, prayers for Abraham. Thanks from a grateful nation. And prayers for President Trump that he chooses somebody great. And I don't know if I can say just as great as Tulsi, but just as interesting, unconventional, unique, and strong as Tulsi Gabbard has been.

2:03:35Lots of love to all of you. I want to tell you before we go that our Memorial Day show is on Monday. We feature war hero Alan C. Mack. I can't wait for you to hear this interview or watch it on YouTube. We sat down together right here in the red studio and he was incredibly composed. He was stunningly impressive. And then we got to the story about him planning. He's a helicopter pilot, like the, if one of, if not the most storied helicopter pilot in the war in Afghanistan. And And we got to the story of how when Marcus Luttrell was missing after his unit was killed, his three brothers in arms were killed, and he was missing.

2:04:24And the entire military was trying to find him, not knowing whether he was dead or alive. His story featured in the movie Lone Survivor. they figured out that they thought he was alive and being sheltered by a Taliban, not by Taliban, by an Afghani fighter who was working with the US. Only problem was this is the middle of a village that was covered by Taliban. And someone had to plan the mission, the highly daring, dangerous mission of getting into this town, getting into this house, and seeing if Marcus Luttrell, a Navy SEAL, was being sheltered in there, was being hidden in there by an Afghani.

2:05:03And that man was Alan C. Mack, who said, I know exactly how we need to do it with the decoys and the explosions over here to divert and how the helicopter pilots would have to get in and get out and what we should do. And when I played for him the soundbite of Marcus and his identical twin brother, Morgan, on the MK show a couple of years ago, where we talked at length about the lone survivor story. And these are two very close brothers, both became Navy SEALs.

2:05:38One missing, and as it would turn out, yes, being harbored by an Afghani fighter, and one with his family in Texas, not knowing whether his identical twin brother was dead or alive, but praying nonstop with his mom and his dad and all of their family, got the call. and that moment where we play Morgan Luttrell telling the story of what happened when the call came in, the call that was made possible by the planning that Alan C. Mack had done a world away is a moment you are not going to want to miss. And you see Alan's reaction. I'm still thinking about it. I've teared up many times over the past couple of days since it's happened.

2:06:20He is a special guy. And, you know, these war stories, they're important that we listen to them. It's just a reminder of what our guys have sacrificed, who they are, how much it took. And, uh, you know, you can do it on Veterans Day. You can do it on Memorial Day. You can do it any old day, but it's especially important as we remember the fallen on Memorial Day to take a moment and talk to the ones who survived about the ones who didn't and the sacrifice that was made by those who did live and those who paid the ultimate sacrifice along with their families. Lots of love to all of you. Hope you get some good time with your families.

2:06:53And we will be back. We'll have that episode air on Monday as a new episode. And then we will be back live on Tuesday. See you then. Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

2:07:22For our nation. This is what's in front of us. This determines what's next for all of us. We are Marines. We were made for this.

2:07:41Real talent is defined by what people can do, not where they learn to do it. So by stopping at the education section of a resume, you might throw away the perfect hire. skills first hiring helps you see talent others miss like more than 70 million stars skilled through alternative routes let their story unfold and gain a competitive advantage because hiring managers who start with skills are 60 percent more likely to find a successful hire hire skills first learn why at tear the paper ceiling.org brought to you by opportunity at work and the ad council