Lindsay Clancy Jury DEADLOCKED, Sandusky Accuser Recants, and Fake NFL Player Fraud, with Mark Eiglarsh and Jonna Spilbor | Ep. 1389

28:15I have a question. I have a question. Okay. But we heard from Dr. Resnick and another expert, at least from the defense side, Resnick, nobody touched. Right? They try. They ask questions. He was unimpeachable. To me, he was as credible as as Walter Cronkite delivering the news. OK, I heard gun. Well, no one argued that. No one argued that. So the jurors on their own are going to say we're going to disregard these experts. Understand these are jurors who range from extremely bright to those who are qualified to disinfect bowling shoes. And they know better than Resnick, the guy who testified in the Yates, Oklahoma City bombing.

28:54He consulted on Casey Anthony. I mean, the guy's pedigree goes way back. They know better than him. So how does that not create some internal reasonable doubt when you've got these experts? No one argued he was a paid whore. Good argument. I would have made that if I'm the prosecutor, but no one did. The prosecution had a word about this. A word about disinfecting bowling shoes. It is you're starting at the bottom, but you're moving your way up. You could eventually be tending the lanes. It's a starter job. It's often done by high school students on the bowling alley. Forgive me for all your viewers.

29:29You got to start somewhere. You were going to stay, Jonna. The prosecution had equally good experts who said precisely the opposite, which is what this case was going to come down to, a battle of the experts, the hired guns. And that's why we are today on Tuesday with 12 people who can't decide what's happening, because half of them could agree with Resnick. And the other half could agree with the prosecution witnesses who said, absolutely not. She knew what she was doing. She knew the difference between right and wrong. And just like you pointed out, Megan, I have the same thing. Like she was so orderly and organized when one of the experts and I don't know if it was Resnick.

30:06So forgive me. One of the experts said, hey, you can be psychotic. You can have a break with reality, but act like you're not having a break with reality. And that's like saying you could be five foot two and 400 pounds and still be skinny. Like it makes no sense to me. Because you know better. Because you know better. what's your expertise jonna i've got a lot of things well i'll tell you this i trust you more than i do fellow jurors so they know better they're going to pick which experts they think it doesn't matter what they know it doesn't matter what they know yes that's literally their job it matters what they analyze what they accept and what they discard how how do you i mean it's all fine and good for the three of us to sit here blubbering talking heads on on a little screen I mean, they're the ones with actual power.

30:53It actually is their job to evaluate the dueling experts. That's scary. The ones with the power wrote a note to me once saying, in a federal case, what dose, spelled D-O-S-E, unamos mean. They couldn't spell unanimous. The judge had justified it. I swear to God, I still have the note. I still have the note. You picked him. Unamos. The four person, the leader of the 12 idiots, couldn't spell does and didn't know what unanimous meant having just been defined by the judge. So you tell me these people can pick out which experts are more credible. I was a sophomore in high school and we were in my journalism class and the teacher stood up at the blackboard when we still had blackboards, you two remember, and said she never wanted to see this on a test again.

31:45Here we go. writing it. She never wanted to see this appear on a test again. Can't see it. I can't see it. P-U-L-L-E-T space surprise. That's great. That's great.

32:09So there are dumb people everywhere. Everywhere. And some are deciding justice. Wait, I want to. Yeah, it's crazy. I wanted to get to. So a lot of our audience has been watching this case carefully, both on MK True Crime and on our show. And they are not. This is not something that like our audience is in agreement on from, you know, what I've read in the mail and listen to on the after show. Because Emily Jashinsky hosts our after show on Sirius XM for the people who listen live. And I wanted to play a little of what we're hearing from the viewers to this show. I trust them more than I trust anybody on how they're viewing this.

32:52And I'll start with Michelle in Nashville, who called in yesterday, SOT3. Well, let me preface this with I've been a nurse for 50 years, and I've worked with patients like Lindsay. This poor woman obviously didn't get the care she needed, but she never should have been left alone. I mean, I blame her husband. I blame her family because that poor woman was crying for help. And, you know, somebody was talking about she should have known better not to take all those drugs. You know, you're in a different state. If you ever read Brooke Shields' story about her postpartum, I mean, you're a different person.

33:31You're not a sane person. And it is true that the day that she killed the children, she was feeling better because they make that final decision of what they're going to do and all the pain is gone. And so I'm just praying that she gets a non-guilty verdict and gets some really good help. Not to mention how the medical people totally failed her. Totally. I mean, who does that kind of stuff with psychiatric patients? You know, our medical system is gone down the hill. I can tell you that. I've been in it a long time. And lately, I can't believe what goes on. But anyway, I pray she gets off because this was a tragedy.

34:16But it was caused by all the people around her who didn't take good care of her. I mean, it's pretty good. Pretty good argument, Jonna. I mean, that's you listen to Nancy Grace and you you want to see this woman punished. and you listen to guests or listeners like Michelle and say, you know what? Yes, I see that side too. Because why wasn't she given lithium, admitted to a hospital, like mandatorily admitted to a hospital and separated from her children as soon as she told the mother and the husband, I am having thoughts of harming the children. And because the follow-up kept being, did she say she had a plan?

35:03No? Oh, then we're good. Then leave her for hours on. Like that, maybe it's 20-20 hindsight. I don't think so. I think at the moment, any of us would be like, hell no, I don't care how much I love my spouse. They're talking about having dreams of hurting the children. And that will be the end of the alone time with the children until we've had three medical professionals certified that this person is of zero danger to them. The three of us sitting here know darn well that if our spouses or significant others did what Lindsay did, said the things that Lindsay said, we would have wrapped them in a straitjacket ourselves, driven them to an institution.

35:44You know, send me a postcard when we figure it out. But you're going to be separated from the children. I mean, small sidebar. Mark was dehydrated the other day, Megan, and his wife called 911. Like she took it seriously. OK, that's a true story. It was on our podcast. So we would have we would have jumped in. The reason why, what's his face, Patrick didn't jump in and the mother-in-law didn't jump in and the mother didn't jump in, I think is twofold. Sometimes you're so scared. Perhaps they were in denial and they did not want to believe that it could rise to that level. So you put your head in the sand.

36:17We can't blame the family members for what she ultimately did. But I do agree with your caller that many people would have done something more. Plus, when you are reporting to a doctor, look, I fill out forms all the time. I want to get my hormones straight, do this straight. I don't even tell them my actual birthday, Megan. So part of it is on the patient. I shave five years off the year all the time. I lie about my weight all the time. Or five pounds off the scale. Yeah, exactly. So you have a responsibility as the patient to be honest. And she didn't want to be honest for the very reason we are talking about it, because she didn't want to be separated from her kids.

36:55So she lied. And that was a mistake. It's true. I have found recently that I I've engaged in actual arguments with my physicians over my height. Like, I want to argue that their numbers cannot possibly be correct. I know how tall I am. These numbers are not reflected. Do you? So I just want to argue like as if it's not knowable, as if the thing on the wall isn't always correct. In any event, yes, we do not always give the physicians the correct information. And you're right. She was definitely misleading. And the prosecution did a good job of also showing she was not taking the medication that these doctors were prescribing her, that they found all these pill bottles almost entirely full.

37:38So it is also very easy to blame these doctors because everybody's been disappointed at one point or another by the medical community. But I wanted to say one thing. I don't know, Mark. To me, there's something happening here. The husband, well, I don't think he had anything to do with this whatsoever, but he does seem like weak sauce to me. And I think like a more robust partner would have said, you're not getting any alone time with the children at all for the foreseeable future, like period. And I do think it's kind of a reminder because we've tried to make men into these feckless weaklings in so many relationships.

38:19And the bluer the state, the more of them you find, because I think a lot of conservative men are just hard nose on this. They just they're not convertible into that type of man. Not all, but I think most. This I think there's a segment of the population that's convinced themselves they have to defer to the wife. And if you challenge the wife, there's something like non-feminist about it or somehow like you're out of your lane. And I think what we needed here was a strong male partner and father to say, I will protect these children and you will not be alone with them. Not until you are all better.

38:57OK, so here are my thoughts. Yes, you're right. Hindsight's 20-20. That clearly should have happened, period. However, we're not in their shoes. There's a presumption that you want to get her access to the kids because she loves her kids. And every time he's seeing, are you doing better? How are you doing? He gets the sense that she got the treatment she needed. She was having the best day possible. There's no question that in hindsight, she should have been somewhere else. Clearly, they failed. But I don't know. When you're in that moment and somebody is seemingly doing well and those thoughts are in the past and they somehow just had them, but now they don't have them anymore, you're not keeping your loved one in a padded room forever.

39:48You're going to try to get them back to doing what they love to do and the kids who miss them and a husband who needs to work. And you believe, you convince yourself that everything's fine. And I think Patrick's taking quite a beating when he was well intended. And the one thing missing for the public was when he took the witness stand, prosecutors didn't say, you know, and they should have. How do you feel? How are you feeling right now? Let him emote what it really meant. Otherwise, he looked like the tin man up there. Like he doesn't have emotion. So he must be somebody who was involved. I think that they kept the emotion out so he didn't look like the soft-hearted, sweet man that he probably is.

40:30That's a good point. John, I want to play you one more from one of our listeners. Patty called in. She's from North Carolina, and she raised something I've heard from a lot of the audience in emails, too. Take a listen to your thought, too. Well, I'm concerned a little bit about the lack of the attention that needs to be brought to all the SSRI inhibitor drugs that were given to her. And there was one comment he made where he said a K-shik reaction. And that's a very real thing. My experience with that is when they loaded my younger sister up with those SSRI inhibitors, and she had an K-shik reaction, and she committed suicide.

41:10And so those drugs, maybe she was having postpartum, maybe not, but there was some kind of a psychotic break, I think, whether it was drug-induced possibly and could very well be with all those drugs because they can build up in a person's system. And then when she said, my heart's beating out of my chest, she was having the trouble breathing, the racing. That's exactly what my sister described when they doubled her dose. And then she committed suicide within a week after that. So I'm thinking that can you excuse what she did was horrible. But I can also say that the drug companies need to be looked at and the doctors, those psychiatrists.

41:56You got it. That was Patty in North Carolina. but she speaks for a lot of people who are very skeptical about the overprescription of these SSRIs, which in almost every school shooter incident we have seen, the guy was on them, you know, and we're like not allowed to talk about it. You're only supposed to say they're amazing and that they're going to cure your depression. And here you have yet another person who was on them one after the other who killed her three children. And I think there is a segment of the population that's like, I've kind of had it with ignoring the role that these drugs may have played.

42:30Yeah. And there definitely is something to that. And look, you know, the drug companies kind of escape liability from all this because we hear the side effects on the commercials, right? This may cause this, that and the other thing and suicidal tendencies and all these horrible side effects. And as long as they put the public on notice, they tend to get a pass when the horrible side effects take effect. And that probably played into this. But also, So was she taking the mask prescribed or wasn't she taking the mask prescribed? Because we had talked about this, too, on the on the Positively Legal podcast.

43:02Like nobody shoved the pills down her throat and then rubbed her throat like a dog to make her take the pills. And and does that cut both ways? Because remember, one of the questions that the jury had was they wanted to see the pill bottles. Did they want to see the pill bottles to see that they were full and therefore she wasn't taking them? So the defense of her mind was so messed up from this cocktail of drugs didn't hold water because she wasn't. So this is a very interesting issue. I agree. I'm also personally, I'm very anti prescription medication for almost everything. I barely take an Advil, but some people need them.

43:37I get it. You and Doug Brunt. Yeah, well, we're on the same page. I try not to take anything, but that's wine. He's the same. Except wine. I have to say, yes, we're into wine. but I I'm fine with prescription medication but I don't like SSRIs and I would I would I would do everything in my power not to take one and I would do everything in my power to keep my kids off of them I know in colleges now my kids are in high school but um in colleges now it's like the first line of defense a dear friend of mine her daughter was at a university went to like the you know the the health department whatever saying like I'm not feeling that well so boom gave him a prescription for like one of these.

44:14And my friend was like, oh, hell no. But it's crazy how they give them out like candy. Like there's, you know, there's no downside. And clearly there is. All right, I want to keep going. I want to keep going. Enough on Clancy. We'll see. We got another hour plus live together. Maybe we'll get some news. Got to talk about the possibility of a Harry-Meghan divorce. So when I first heard musings that there was a real possibility, it was Lady C, who was on Maureen Callahan's show, was reporting that she had heard there's another woman that Harry is having either an actual affair or an emotional affair with, unconfirmed and I'm sure denied, but that this lady C is part of the royal family or was distant.

44:55But she's cool and she's interesting and she's got some interesting reporting on these two and everybody royal. Anyway, that was something I said, I have no idea whether it's true. I buy it, but I have no idea whether in fact it's happening. Then comes the announcement of the reverse Mexit and Dan Wooten, who I trust implicitly because he's a real reporter. He's got actual royal sources. He broke Mexit that they were leaving and he broke many other details about these two. He comes out and then Alison Boshoff, who writes for the Daily Mail, who's also got very, very solid sources. So take a listen to Dan and Alison and this report from the other day.

45:35sat 33. Boshoff also revealed sources close to the couple have confirmed the physical separation is very much on, is very much long term. We all know this is the beginning of the end. So how long are the kids going to be in these schools? And the friend said, well, you know, this is the duration. This is until Archie and Linda finish school. So I'm like, well, OK, this is 15 years then. And I said, well, what about Megan? And the friend said to me, oh, well, Megan's already plotting out in her diary when she's going to be in the UK and which week she's going to need to be in California. And they're all going to spend the holidays in California.

46:06So they'll still really be Californian in some way. And I thought, oh, okay, so what this is, as you say, as you correctly said, and you called it, is this is Harry and the kids are now basing themselves in the UK. And Meghan will, will be in, you know, traveling internationally. Okay, one more. Rob Shooter, who's also got good royal sources reports, the marriage is in deeper trouble than anyone realizes. He reports that insiders say, forget the mansion, the money, and the royal titles. The real war will be over Archie and Lilibet. Publicly, they remain married. Neither has announced a separation, but sources claim that privately the relationship has deteriorated dramatically, with Meghan increasingly convinced there is nothing left to save.

46:53Harry may still be looking for a way back, but Meghan is not. as Soros tells Naughty But Nice. That's his sub stack in which he reports. The couple, you know, reportedly is telling everybody that they're as happy as can be and, you know, this isn't about that and so on. But it does raise an interesting issue. I have a question. Yeah, go ahead, Mark. Sorry, I have to interrupt. And I wouldn't normally ask this question because I'm asking it at my own peril since you selected this topic. But I'm sure there's a few other listeners like myself who are wondering who gives a shit why do we care about harry and the wife's divorce i don't care why do we care tell me tell me why because here on the show we have a practice of studying sociopaths and we definitely believe that she is is that what it is yeah sorry she makes crappy candles that's our yeah so we're talking about them because you don't like candles crappy jam you don't like her she they they helped kill the queen mark no i don't like her she helped hasten the queen's death, Prince Philip, her husband's death.

47:55Jonna, do you get it? She blew up a very nice family that had troubles. I mean, they had some dysfunction, but she blew it up. She stole a prince. She takes no responsibility for anything she's done. And then every time she gets called off for a bad behavior, she plays the race card. So no, I don't like her. Did you watch Suits? She was good in Suits. No? I saw Little Suits involuntarily because my children actually thought it was a good show. Mark, you need to listen to the nerd. And I can see she was actually kind of decent. She should have stopped doing that. You and Jonna, who really want to give it to her, go right ahead.

48:22You need to listen to the nerve with our friend. Exactly. And you'll be into this topic. You're talking yourself right out of this segment, Mark Eiglash. Jonna, my question to you. There we go. So if these two actually were to split, this actually does raise a very interesting question now. Because had they split, you know, a week ago when everybody was still living in California, I think we all would have understood California law would apply. and presumably there'd be a favor, a presumption given that the children should stay in California and not go to the UK where Archie was born, but Lilibet wasn't born and they haven't been raised there.

48:57But now they're both getting enrolled in UK school. At least for now, reportedly, both parents are moving to the UK, though they're keeping that Montecito mansion and you heard Dan Wooden and Allison's reporting. And so if this thing breaks up in a year or even two years, What happens then with the custody of those children? So if it's a fight, it is going to be a problem because the very oversimplified rule is jurisdiction follows the kids. And in order to establish jurisdiction when you're talking about child custody, it generally has to be for a period of six months. So when when say when clients call me, for example, and they're they're fixing to file for divorce and they want to know these questions like, where are we going to file this?

49:43What do I do now? Well, if you're planning to, some people will leave the house, like they haven't filed anything, but they might physically separate. If you physically separate, you better take the kids with you and they better stay under your roof for six months because that's where you're going to end up filing for custody if that's the case. And it sounds like based on your reporting and the other reporting of others, that the jurisdiction is going to be in the UK, which maybe they're agreeing to, so it won't be a fight. But if it is, that's where Meghan Markle is going to be having her custody battle.

50:16I agree with you. I think it's going to be the UK. I think agreeing to go over there, if there's anything happening between these two as approaching the end of the marriage is a mistake on her part. It's a mistake to let the children go there unless she wants to get stuck going there. I give you the case of Kelly Rutherford who starred on Gossip Girl. She got married. She had her child in LA. or a second child in L.A., but she was married to a German dude. When they separated, they tried to do 50-50 custody. Long story short, his visa was revoked and he had to stay in Monaco. And after all this legal wrangling, she had to move to Monaco.

50:56She had to move there. She said she didn't have the money and so on. It was a nightmare that went on for her in the legal courts. If they're separating, Meghan Markle needs to stay here with the children. I hope they're doing well. I wish them the very best. And I hope no one cares what you think. I got to go. I have an ad to read. We'll be right back. Our sponsor, the Electronic Payments Coalition, says Washington politicians are always getting in your wallet and that now they're messing with your credit card. They say your credit card and the security it offers are under attack and that Senators Dick Durbin and Roger Marshall want to change the nation's payment system to benefit corporate megastores like Walmart and Target at the expense of everyday Americans.

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53:10Before we get to our next Kelly's Court case, I wanted to tell you about our new MK Confidential True Crime series this week. It is called The Double Life of Scott Peterson. And last night, we began with the story of that double life and his lover, Amber Fry. Here's a clip. The next day, a friend of Lacey's drives Amber Fry to Sharon's home. Sharon says she's hoping to fill in some gaps as far as what happened between Amber and Scott. She asks a few questions about dates and timing and occasionally glances at a calendar on her desk. Meanwhile, Scott Peterson continues calling Amber. The day after her press conference, he calls to tell her how proud of her he is.

53:57I was so proud of you when you did that. It was amazing. You have an amazing character. I pulled over and threw up when he pried. I was listening to the radio. It was so hard to hear. But it was just so amazing. Your strength. It's incredible. Honestly, like a lot of people are unfamiliar with this story, this case, because they were very young when it happened back in 2002 or otherwise, you know, occupied. But it is one of the most riveting crime stories in modern American history. That's him calling his, she doesn't like the word mistress because mistress implies unknowing participation with a married man.

54:43And she did not know he was married, but lover, whatever. He's calling his lover who he's been cheating on his pregnant wife with. After she comes forward to the police, she had no idea that he was married. She had no idea that now, toward the tail end of their month of seeing each other, his wife has suddenly gone missing. She was, of course, murdered. And she realizes it's the man that she's been seeing who is married, contrary to his denials to her. And. And that has been lying to her. So she holds a press conference saying, I'm cooperating with law enforcement. I didn't know he was married and I'm really sad for the family.

55:26And he calls her up and praises her like like he's, you know, Lacey's dad. Genuinely so upset that Lacey's missing and so proud that she called him out publicly on his lies. This is, just to go back into it is so crazy, you guys. Like those of us who lived it could use a refresher and it just, it touches on a lot of emotions, a lot. And those of you who didn't pay that much attention to it when it first happened, I think will be truly riveted. Find new episodes every day this week, all right? It's 9 p.m. Eastern. Each episode is about a half an hour and we air them on the Megyn Kelly YouTube channel and on our podcast feed.

56:06So you can either just listen to the audio or you can watch it on YouTube. But either way, check it out, The Double Life of Scott Peterson. And we are back now with Jonna Spilboer and Royals expert Mark Eiglarsh. They are the hosts of Positively Legal. You can go and find their show every Wednesday on MK True Crime on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, there's a lot actually to go through still. And I want to start next with Jerry Sandusky. This is another one of those cases that if you didn't live it when it broke in 2011, you might not remember who the heck that is. But this was a huge news story at the time.

56:45Huge. I was at Fox News. And Jerry Sandusky was the longtime junior athletic football guy. Hold on, I pulled his actual title. Defensive coordinator at Penn State. He started as a defensive end for Penn State's football team in 63 to 65. Then he was an assistant coach under the legendary Joe Paterno from 1969 to 1999. 30 years. In his 23 years as defensive coordinator, he was largely credited with making Penn State football into linebacker U. This is from the Center County Encyclopedia of History and Culture. So this guy was a legend in his own right. In 1977, so not that long into his famed tenure as the defensive coordinator, he founded something called The Second Mile, which was recognized by President George H.W.

57:44Bush as one of the greatest examples of volunteerism in America. And they worked with over 100 ,000 young people across Pennsylvania, multimillion-dollar budget. And they said that they worked specifically with children from troubled families. They were trying to help youth from troubled families. Now, if you are a pedophile, the odds are very good. You will either find a job or a hobby or volunteer work that surrounds you with young children. I mean, we've seen it in case after case after case. Jared from Subway, a disgusting pervert pedophile, convicted and in prison right now, but not for long.

58:29He's actually supposed to get out in the next few years. What did he do in his spare time? Oh, he went, he volunteered talking about heart health at middle schools and grade schools. They will do what they need to do to get access to children. It's very sad, but it's true. And if they can add to that recipe, children from troubled families, broken families, divorce, special needs, brothers or sisters, what have you, so much the better. because you have distracted parents who might not be paying that close attention. That's the pedophile's bet. I'm not saying that's a true fact, but that's the pedophile's bet.

59:10They tend to target disadvantaged children. It's just disgusting on every level. So Jerry Sandusky was doing this with, I don't know what the total number was. At trial, there were between 10 and 12 children. He was ultimately convicted in the cases of 10 children, accusing him of child sexual assault. and he's in prison right now and maintains his innocence. Now, this is so wrong. Well, what has happened this week, why are we talking about this all these years later, is one of the accusers has gone back on his story. So he's recanted. There were 10 victims in all who accused him officially at trial, and this person is preparing to recant his testimony according to court documents obtained by The Athletic, which is an offshoot of The New York Times.

1:00:01Sandusky, now 82, is due to appear in court in Belafonte, Pennsylvania, September 8th for an evidentiary hearing after a judge granted his request to review evidence that the accuser, recognized as RR or victim 10 in court proceedings, has recanted or substantially disavowed his trial testimony. In a signed affidavit dated June 30th of last year, victim Ted said he felt pushed to change his story. His testimony, quote, evolved, he said, after, quote, leading questions, intense investigative pressure and psychological manipulation. I was misled repeatedly during the process, particularly by the prosecutor, Joe McGettigan, who, by the way, is now dead.

1:00:43The alleged victim says I now regret my role in facilitating what I've come to view as a deeply flawed prosecution. he goes on to say I was led to believe that failing to testify in the manner prosecutors expected would allow a dangerous man to escape justice later saying he was unsure that his statements quote would be used to secure a de facto life sentence for Mr. Sandusky he says he was coached during the pretrial meetings one of which lasted approximately 10 hours where he was asked repeatedly to reframe his account until his responses aligned with what appeared to be the desired testimony by the prosecution team I asked the courts and any fair-minded reader, quoting here, to consider that my testimony may have reflected not willful falsehood, but a tragic convergence of memory uncertainty, professional suggestion, prosecutorial coercion, and my own vulnerability.

1:01:36According to the filing from Sandusky's attorneys, Victim 10's estranged wife is also now weighing in, prepared to testify that Victim 10 initially denied being abused by Sandusky. The prosecutors, the lead guy, of course, is dead, as I just told you, but the prosecutors with the Pennsylvania AG's office said that woman's opinion 13 years after the defendant's trial, pondering what she thinks may or may not have really happened to victim 10 when he was 10 years old or any other Sandusky child victim for that matter is irrelevant and inadmissible. but it does look like this former alleged victim now says he wasn't.

1:02:17The AG's office released a statement on Friday saying the defense will be requesting a new trial during these proceedings based primarily on a highly suspect recantation that was offered by the defense. Jerry Sandusky is now weighing in himself, speaking from prison to ABC Philadelphia in an exclusive to them. And here's a bit of that conversation. Let's play 30 and 31 back to back. Watch. I'm an innocent man. I've been convicted by so many people with their own personal agendas, ambitions, and the opportunity to take advantage of a tremendous financial gain. I want the truth to come out. I want everybody to know it.

1:03:06I want to be home in the worst way, but I also want my grandkids to know the truth. In an exclusive interview by phone from state prison in Somerset County, Jerry Sandusky says money was the driving factor in the allegations against him and his conviction on 35 counts of sexual abuse of 10 victims. Money became such a huge motive for everybody, and they incentivized the accusers and let them. Without their leading, the accusers, in the beginning, they couldn't make allegations. New attorneys for the 82-year-old are expected to argue in Center County Court next month that Sandusky received ineffective counsel.

1:03:49But more importantly, prosecutors Joe McGettigan and Frank Fina coached the victims into making false allegations. One victim is expected to recant his accusations. Court filings by the defense say the victim's accusations were the result of investigative pressure and psychological manipulation. Okay, Mark, so where does this lead us? Because it's a dream for Sandusky that this one alleged victim is doing this, but the nine others aren't. Okay, well, let's start with the one. What he's alleging, you have to assume, okay, there may be some evidence to support it. The judge doesn't know. So I think it's proper and necessary to conduct that evidentiary hearing.

1:04:33same way they're doing in the Kohlberger case. You know, let's see whether there's any truth to this or not. And then the judge will make a factual finding as to whether there's any merit to this at all. But the bigger picture, I'm like thinking metaphorically, like, okay, you bring me soup at a restaurant and there's like one fly in it, I'll swat it away and then eat the soup. But if there's like 10 flies in it, I ain't gonna eat any of that. In this case, it's not just one kid. So even if you discount this, You've got nine, at least others behind him who aren't recanting, who are saying this really did happen.

1:05:08And the prosecutors didn't manipulate me and nobody committed any type of fraud in inducing me to give statements. So I don't think it's going to disturb the underlying case, the underlying conviction. John, the problem for Sandusky is for every victim 10 out there. There's a victim one and his name we now know is Aaron Fisher. He sat down with Chris Cuomo when Chris Cuomo was at ABC and co-hosting 2020. He's a little older in this clip. The abuse happened to him, he says, when he was 10 to 12 by Jerry Sandusky. And he was victim number one at the criminal proceeding against Jerry Sandusky. He recants nothing.

1:05:54Watch. I laid down so many, so many different hints and clues for her to catch on. But you weren't able to say, this guy is a monster, he's sexually assaulting me. I couldn't do it. Why?

1:06:13Embarrassment, fear of not being believed. Then when Aaron turned 15, he finally told Dawn something, that Jerry kept pulling him out of class. Dawn was shocked and called the school demanding answers. When she met with the principal, Karen Probst, the next morning, her worst fears were realized. Aaron was melting down in the office. And then the principal went on to explain that Aaron had said that Jerry had done something sexual to him. How did that hit you? Like a rock. And I immediately, you know, told them that we need to call the police. What do they say? They tell me to go home and think about it.

1:06:54That's the victim's mother. Unbelievable. By the way, Chris Cuomo did a very nice job on that interview. I watched the whole piece. And one more for you, Jonna. There's a man by the name of Matthew Sandusky, who has the same last name as Jerry Sandusky, the defendant, because, what did you say, Robert? Because he was adopted by Jerry. And that's no accident. That's no accident. He gave a long interview to Oprah and admitted that he thinks he was targeted by Sandusky and adopted by him for the very purpose of getting him under his wing so that he could molest him when he wanted. Here's part of his interview to Oprah Winfrey in 2014, SOT32B.

1:07:40I mean, he just progressed through, you know, going up my leg at summer camps, being in your shorts, throwing you, grabbing on your genitals as he throws you, to eventually I would come over and play racquetball with him. And this is probably 12 years old. Yeah. And so he's progressed to full on being in the locker room. After we had played racquetball, we, you know, we had to take a shower. That's just mandatory. You had to get the sweat off you. You had to get clean. That's where a lot of during those times is when a lot of the sexual abuse really happened. So what are we having a hearing for truly?

1:08:22Well, he is lawfully entitled to a hearing, right? He's entitled to have this evidentiary hearing. But it's even if he wins, I don't know what the win is going to look like because of the other nine victims and the other nine convictions. and the other nine probably now adults who are not going to recant. So it's just going to be a pyrrhic victory. I guess it's going to help him, Jerry Sandusky, somehow to be able to put this forward and see what a judge is going to do. But it's not going to change his sentence. It's not going to change anything. And I find the timing of this, Megan, very interesting from the recanting victim's standpoint.

1:09:01Because number one, he received$5.5 million from Penn State, I guess, when this all happened. So that's what will happen with that money, which I'm sure is now gone. Number one, number two, the person who is at the heart of the accusation, the person who put the pressure is dead. So he cannot testify and defend himself. So, you know, you're going to be pointing at an empty chair saying that person made me do it. Is that going to open up a whole other can of worms or is it going to fall flat? We're going to have to wait and see, because I honestly this case is was sort of dead and buried. Right.

1:09:34And now all of a sudden this comes up. It's just the timing is very suspect and the outcome isn't going to change anything. All right, here's I'll just play devil's advocate. I think Jerry Sandusky is a disgusting, perverted pedophile. That's what I think. That's my opinion. And it's backed up by the guilty verdict against him and the now nine victims who were involved in the criminal case against him. Um, but I've been following this case long enough to know that some people who I consider not nuts believe that Jerry Sandusky is innocent and that this was a railroad from the start. It got, it got started the snowball against Jerry Sandusky after a, a junior coach at Penn State.

1:10:28Mike McQueary was his name, came forward later. It broke publicly after it happened, but he saw something in 2001 when he was going into the Penn State showers. He saw, forgive me, but it was graphic and it was described and it sounded pretty clear, testified that there was a boy up against the wall, facing the wall. Jerry was directly behind him in a very close position. Quote, I did not see any, forgive me, insertion, did not hear any protest, screaming or yelling, but described the sounds of what sounded like molestation, sex, you know, non-consensual, obviously, since this is a minor, a 10 or 12 year old boy that was on the, you know, that that was in front of him.

1:11:20So it's disgusting. It's, it's horrifying, but McQuarrie came forward with that. And, and the reason three officials at Penn state were ultimately criminally convicted on their own in this case is because they were all mandatory reporters and they didn't. They, there are emails between the two, the three of them going back and forth, like, I'm not comfortable with the way we initially said we were going to handle the situation, which was to report that they had received this report from Mike McQuarrie to authorities. Instead, you know, this guy was part of the legendary Penn State football program under their most legendary coach ever, Joe Paterno.

1:12:01And, you know, maybe we need to give him the chance to explain and maybe like rehab for him, which is just completely contrary to law. and all three of them would wind up convicted and having to spend a couple days in some cases or a month or two in prison. But that's what happened when this guy McQuarrie came forward in 2001 or two to the university because to his credit, he did go forward to say, holy shit, I just saw this in the locker room. But later his story changed a bit. Like some of the details changed up or he got a little bit too animated in offering, you know, things he allegedly said he saw, but then would have to admit he didn't actually see.

1:12:46And this, Mark, led people to say, like, we've got to actually look a lot more carefully at this whole story. And a lot of, and I'm not sure if it's all of, but a lot of these victims in the criminal case did also file civil lawsuits against Penn State, which was very deep pocketed. They wound up paying some huge amount,$100 million out on this. And as we've often seen in these cases, the defense of the people who support Jerry Sandusky is, it's a money grab. You know, like the one guy made the allegation, the alleged victim in the McQuarrie case, you know, the one was in the shower, did not testify against Sandusky and actually later came out and said, oh, nothing happened.

1:13:31We were just towel snapping, which I don't believe for one second. I believe McQuarrie saw what he said. He was disturbed enough. He went to his bosses and ratted out this guy who was legendary in his own right, Sandusky. There's no way he mistook towel snapping for that anyway. But my point is simply there there is there are points to be made on the Sandusky might not have done this side of the ledger. I reject them, but we should discuss them. Surprise, surprise. There always are. That's that's what we do as defense lawyers. There are always arguments on the other side. And if there aren't ones that are readily available, we'll create them.

1:14:12So was there towel snapping? Yeah. After he sodomized them in the shower. So they're probably both occurred. To Jonna's point, if this guy got the first accuser who's now recanting, if he got over $5 million, okay, for every action. Victim 10. Oh, victim 10. Sorry. So for every action, there's a reaction. Give it back then. You weren't victimized. You want to come out right now under oath and swear that they manipulated you, that you really were not a true victim. Give the money back. What do you buy with those things? Have a judgment against them. Get that money back. Mark, can I tell you? Well, what about the fact?

1:14:53But wait, can I ask you, Jennifer? What about the fact if I'm Sandusky's lawyer, I am going to blow up victim 10's allegations that he was, quote, coached during the pretrial meetings that he he says there was prosecutorial coercion, that the prosecutors wanted certain testimony and made sure that they got it. He claims that he was told that the trauma may have fragmented his memory and that he could, quote, safely affirm details that he did not fully recall. I mean, he and leading questions, intense investigative pressure, psychological manipulation, misled repeatedly, particularly by this now dead prosecutor.

1:15:41And so if you're Sandusky's attorney, you're going to get up there and say, what are the odds that this guy McGettigan only did that to victim 10? Like we need we need a full evidence here. You've got to open this whole case back up. I want to talk to victim one, two, three. I didn't know any of this when I defended my client. And I want to say, look, what if there is a pattern of this guy McGettigan? I mean, what a name for a prosecutor. You know, doing this to child after child about their alleged, you know, abuse. Again, when everybody knows there is potential money on the table. This is not, you know, a crime where there's not going to be a civil payout.

1:16:28I mean, there was a very deep pocket behind Sandusky. I mean, employing him for the majority of time he was doing this. And a lot of them were brought onto Penn State property. which okay so first things first victims one two through nine are going to be fearful that if let's say let's play devil's advocate let's say you know what yep it was i was coerced but i don't want to give back my chunk of the hundred million dollars so i'm going to zip it and shut up and not say anything and not come forward number one number two you got to remember when you're prosecuting a case, those victims and the district attorneys that are talking to them, there is no attorney client privilege.

1:17:09Were there tape recordings of the conversations? If McGettigan is doing something untoward, there won't be. Usually you're not going to have conversations like that unless they're recorded, unless there's a third party in the room. Why? Because if your victim recants, you want to be able to say, no, no, no, this is what was said. So you're going to want that protection and there's no privilege there. Now that this guy's dead, he can't even tell you if he if he not that he would tell you where he buried any bodies, but he's not going to be able to stand up for himself. So who else was in the room when these kids came forward and had their conversations?

1:17:46Where are the private investigators that sat there and took these statements? I mean, they're going to be gettable, assuming they're not pushing up daisies themselves. So there is some investigation that can go on here by Sandusky's new lawyers. And that should probably happen before the hearing happens. Yeah, Megan, let me jump in on this because it would be unfair. Let me just say this. It would be grossly unfair to open up the evidentiary hearing to the other nine victims unless and until first there's the kind of evidence that come out now for victim number 10. Then, unless you have that kind of evidence, you don't then re-victimize them and put them through cross-examination, bring them to court again.

1:18:30They had the courage to come forward when they needed to. Back then, he was convicted. Lest you have them coming forward and saying affirmatively, I'm ready to testify about how the prosecutor made me do this and framed Sandusky like the Mona Lisa, then you leave them alone. Here is more from Sandusky from the prison interview with Philadelphia 6 ABC. And he's talking about these accusers being connected to his charity, the Second Mile, and what he thinks the motivation was here. Watch. Sandusky's victims were all connected to his charity for troubled youth, the Second Mile. Each one of them had issues.

1:19:17Each one of them were involved in our program because of some issues. But even Sandusky's adopted son testified the former Penn State coach sexually abused him. He had financial problems. Less than right. He saw an opportunity. Today, the Pennsylvania Attorney General's office released a statement saying the defense will be requesting a new trial during these proceedings based primarily on a highly suspect recantation that was offered by the defense. I've been made out to be a monster. My whole life was centered around. We had an open door for people, welcomed them into our lives, tried to help them.

1:20:06Okay. I find that so despicable that, oh, they were all troubled. They were all troubled. This is what they do. That's why they target the troubled child. Because not only are their parents dealing with like the stress and the distraction of a divorce or a broken family or a kid who's on the spectrum or some sort of massive challenge. But then they get to turn around and say, troubled kid. I mean, who are you going to believe? The troubled kid or me, this storied football coach at Penn State. The trouble for him is that shit no longer works. The reason Penn State had to pay out$100 million, Mark, is because they had some 35 plaintiffs suing them.

1:20:48The numbers are way bigger than the 10 who testified at that trial. And I don't know what this one victim's doing, alleged victim number 10. I have no idea what this person's doing or whether what he's saying was done to him by the prosecutor is true. but there's I just there's no universe in which I buy that scores of alleged victims all made it up yeah me too and uh so my question to this guy number 10 is are you mistaken now like you were mistaken then which which one is more which one are we going to believe I don't think it gets to the point where the judge credits what he has to say you have a prosecutor who's passed away and he can't defend himself I don't know that so convenient by the way isn't it dead guys don't tell tales.

1:21:32He can't explain anything. So you could just shit all over him and say whatever you want. So I don't know that this really goes anywhere. And ultimately, there's this concept in the law called harmless error. So if there's nine others, and even if they knew this information at the time and they could allege that the prosecutor, you know, didn't do everything by the book, I think the appellate court would say that wouldn't have changed the outcome of this case. Megan, can I give you the Hollywood version of this story? Here's the Hollywood. This is if I were writing a fiction novel, here's what it is.

1:22:03Victim 10 wants more money. So he connects with Sandusky's team like, hey, you got five point five million dollars before we got another five point five. If you'll come forward and say all that shit that you said 13 years ago wasn't true. This is the Hollywood version, folks. This is not fact. I'm not making up facts. I'm just saying, Is it possible that he's been bought by some other side now that the prosecutor is dead? If I were writing the script for Hollywood, I might include something like that. And here's a less Hollywood version. A realistic version is believability and accuracy are two different things.

1:22:43Maybe for some reason, because he is extremely troubled to some extent, he believes that what he said initially wasn't accurate. But who's to know what's true now? Right. I mean, now the guy's got no word that that we can rely upon. So I don't think that it goes anywhere. If you listen to Victim One's interview with Chris Cuomo and then Cuomo interviewed his mom to who we we saw in that clip when she was talking about her dissatisfaction when she went to the school. She he asks her, like, why would you let your son spend so much alone time with the grown man? so frequently over the course of two years.

1:23:27And she said she thought that he was being recruited for sports. Apparently her son was a big runner. He's still a big runner when he gave the interview to Cuomo. And this is a big guy at Penn State, not in the track and field department, but who cares? You're one step removed if you're over at the football field. And she believed that her son was talented. I mean, this is just so awful. It's so cynical what it's done to these poor families. Like your, your son's special. Your son has special talent. And she believed it. She believed that. And that's why she let him, I don't know what the full extent of the time spent with Sandusky was, but it sounded like Cuomo had, had some skepticism about the decision-making on her part.

1:24:09And, um, you know, I'm sure she, she has to live with that every day. Like you just absolutely not when it comes to any overnight with your, your minor child and a grown up on some one-on-one excursion or staying over at his house. The Michael Jackson case is coming to mind. And I have to tell you, the Michael Jackson case came to mind when I was listening to this young man for two reasons. The obvious, and also because Sandusky's basement, as victim one described it, was like a lair for children. He was talking about the pool table and the ping pong and the shuffleboard and all the games. And, you know, it is one thing if I guess you have a bunch of kids that you're raising and like your basement looks like that.

1:24:54It's another when you're Jerry Sandusky and you spend all of your time around, you know, college football players and they have their own fraternities and places to hang out. It's just the whole thing is gross. It ruined Joe Paterno's legacy. It did so much damage to Penn State and it ruined the lives of countless children who don't need this can of worms coming back open. All right, let's take a quick break. We'll come back. Mark mentioned Kohlberger. We did get a ruling. Unbelievably, that guy's getting a new evidentiary hearing in court where we are going to start having evidence on that crazy motion he filed with his own handwriting.

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1:28:28Mark Iglarsh and Janice Bilbo are back with me now. We are keeping an eye on the Tyler Robinson preliminary hearing that's happening right now out in Utah, where this judge, who was so overly indulgent, I thought, of the Tyler Robinson defense team's many, many hours of argument, testimony, whatever. He's back on the stand. Remember, he kicked it to September 1st. And now he's been on the stand. This thing was supposed to start at 12. It's 137 Eastern. Supposed to start at 12 Eastern time. Let's take a listen to what he's saying. There shall be no electronic media coverage of any juror, prospective juror, or the face of any minor.

1:29:09KUT. Yeah, he's still on this. Okay, that's enough. an operator. The whole time he's been on the bench, he's been talking about media, media, media, all the rules of the media. There was that one snafu when they had the preliminary hearing where one thing was shown. It was Tyler Robinson's handwriting, but it was showing like a confession that we already knew about. And actually it turned out that that exact handwriting had already been produced in discovery and had been attached as an exhibit. So it actually wasn't a big surprise, but we pretended like it was like this terrible sin by the prosecution and the media.

1:29:46Whatever. Just get on with it. There's no doubt that there is preliminary, that there is probable cause to hold Tyler Robinson over. Zero doubt at all. This isn't a finding of guilt. It's will he have to stand trial? The ridiculous indulgence of this farce is kind of fucking annoying. And cruel to the family. Listen, in the real world, these motions are handled in a day. Judge says there's probable cause. Let's move on to low standard. It's not proof beyond a reasonable doubt. He's turning into this whole thing into a circus. It's unfair to anyone who gives a crap about this tragedy. And it's it's cruel.

1:30:27It's just not right. It's I said during the hearing, and I say again, this judge is giving Lance Ito vibes, John. Yeah. You know, like he's he's going to complain about the media, but he seems to be really enjoying his time on camera. He can't make a damn decision. Mark's exactly right. Usually these things are like an hour, if that, two minutes. And especially when you have multiple confessions, the defense is not arguing that their client didn't do it. Hello. They're not arguing that. And you've got DNA and you've got stuff like again you can dispute the specifics how reliable is dna could it have been all that will happen at trial right the the job here is so minuscule the bar is so low what in god's name are we doing for purposes of probable cause 95 of this is unnecessary it's unheard of to have a mini trial as a preliminary hearing and i think this judge is giving off the judge ito vibes and kind of going overboard, really, to the benefit of the defense is because the death penalty is on the table.

1:31:34And the same reason that the defense is doing all this, the same reason they put on this dog and pony show, they are simply angling to get the death penalty off the table. And if they are at any point successful, I would expect that we would have some sort of plea and we could stop this charade, because if there's ever been a case where a defendant is dead to effing rights, it's Tyler Robinson. Yes, I agree. And I like this judge at first. So hopefully you'll see that. I liked him because I liked his demeanor. I liked his professionalism. I liked the way he treated both sides. He seemed fair. And now I don't like him because the road to hell with good intentions, he wants to do everything so nice, nice that he's allowing the defense to present everything.

1:32:21And it's going on and on and on at great expense emotionally and financially to anyone, to everyone involved. Yeah. I mean, the poor citizens of Utah that have to pay for this farce. Can we see the judge one more time? I just want to take a look at him for one. I'm looking for one thing. Let me just see him. He pop it back up. You know who he looks like? Stephen Moore of Fox News. You know, the commentator on business and econ. He looks like Stephen Moore. You guys may not know who I mean. I'm going to get a split screen of those two people and put it on the board. He looks just like him. And I think he's actually also Stephen Moore, a Trump advisor now.

1:32:59OK, we'll continue to check back in there. But speaking of things that, you know, should have been a lot simpler than they're going to be. Brian Kohlberger actually got someplace with that handwritten request for an evidentiary hearing. And we're going to have one now. It's not going to happen until next June. but he's not only going to get a status conference one day out of jail but an actual evidentiary hearing on his motion two days out of jail two pieces of news around it he's got a new private attorney from Idaho named Gregory Rauch who's a private defense attorney assigned to represent him since he's now claiming that he was the victim of ineffective assistance of counsel from Ann Taylor who definitely was a lot of things but I don't think ineffective is on the list But that's just one of his bullshit claims to get a new trial, withdraw his guilty plea, which is what he's asking to do.

1:33:54But now, more interestingly, this guy, Jason Goldman, a New York based attorney, is joining his team. And this guy has already gone on the record saying our main priority right now is to scrutinize the constitutional issues surrounding Brian's plea. But he said this, some of the circumstances surrounding that plea and what occurred in the critical days leading up to it deserve careful, independent judicial scrutiny. Some of those circumstances surrounding his plea are already part of the public record. Others are not. We will let the evidence in the filing speak in due course. Stay tuned. So they are planning on going in there and expanding on his claim of ineffective assistance of counsel, which is really what this all boils down to, where Brian argued his lawyer didn't tell him the truth about what life on death row was going to be like, the size of the cells.

1:34:50This is just ridiculous. But here we go, Jonna. We're going to indulge this guy. And I mean, this is all for naught. Is it I mean, is there any chance based on this bunch of bullshit this guy gets a new trial? I hate to be the one to break it to you, Megan. This is not all for naught. And here's why blame. Let's blame the prosecutors and let's blame the judge because they allowed this guy who probably is some sort of evil genius to get away with pleading guilty without allocuting. He admitted nothing. He did not have to say who he killed, how he killed, when he killed, why he killed. Every other defendant in this country has to admit what they did before a judge can accept a guilty plea, except for Brian Koberger.

1:35:40So now I disagree. If this is successful, Mark, he doesn't have any admission on the record to doing shit. OK, I disagree. I disagree. You don't think it's going to happen. I disagree. He did ask him, are you pleading guilty because you are guilty? And he said, yes. But now one of Kohlberger's complaints is he was told your guilty plea doesn't have to be truthful. That's one of the ways in which he was allegedly. So I think the world of my positively legal co-host, which, you know, again, the show comes out on Wednesday. Watch it. John is not always right. And I'm always here to correct her when she gets it wrong.

1:36:20OK, so number one, this is going to go nowhere. Number two. It must be very hard for you to stay positively legal, Jonna, on this show. Yeah, we don't. It's tongue in cheek. Mark's the only positive one on positively legal. She curses a lot. Okay. You're positively fed up with Mark. That's where I am. Go ahead, Mark. So let me explain. I disagree with Jonna. Not every defendant has to admit what they did, maybe in her little small town where she practices. My jurisdiction. The judge. New York. The judge, some small town in New York. What the judge needs to do is merely have a factual basis to accept the plea, not that a person says, I'm guilty.

1:36:57I did it. It doesn't have to be that way. So I disagree with her. Also, as you pointed out, Megan, he did admit that he did this. And I don't think there's going to be any proof that from any of any credible proof other than from his own mouth that they forced him, threatened him, coerced him, got him to admit his responsibility when he didn't. you know. So, Jonna, I disagree. All right. So hang on. All right. I want to keep going. Oh, she's going to correct the record. Quickly, because I want to get in that last case. Okay. Okay. You want me? All right. Good. So we'll move on. No. Save it. We'll be back to Cold War.

1:37:30Save it for a show. There's always some. There's always more on that case. I want to talk about Dejan Love, who has been running around many states, many states. I can't keep track of them all. Alleging that he is a San Francisco 49er. He set up this whole social media profile of himself in 49er gear. And he's been going woman after woman saying he's a 49er and getting them to give him money. You know, he's going to invest it. He's going to help them get an apartment. He's going to help them get a nice car, but somehow they have to front the first payment by giving it to him. And he's 35 years old.

1:38:19He allegedly had an 18-year-old accomplice in this named Taylor Chan, who started doing this for him or helping him with this a few years ago when he would have been 13 or 14 when the scheme scheme began. He was, here's some of the specifics here. Hold on. He pretended to be a 49er and then developed romantic relationships with many of the victims, actually got in romances with them, told him he wanted to settle down. He wanted to build wealth with them by investing together, said he was a wide receiver. He publicly posted photos and videos of himself dressed in team gear, pretending to train along with posts allegedly stolen from real NFL players presented as his own.

1:39:00there were more than$1 ,100 in purchases from a custom football helmet company, plus purchases from businesses selling realistic fake cash and social media followers, likes, and views. Oh, it's all a fraud, say the prosecutors. He had other identities that he sometimes used, including saying he was related to the Green Bay Packers quarterback, Jordan Love. And the victims, if they started asking too many questions or had no more money to invest, got blocked. He would then block their numbers. It's so crazy. One woman, victim AT, they dated for about a month. He told her that the young kid with him could invest her money in an expedited account that would double her money, and she'd get a$600 check every week or two.

1:39:43She gave him 20 grand, and then 20 grand in cash too. One was transferred into his account, one went cash, and sent an associate of his five grand for a total of$45 ,000 toward the expedited account. but AT, the woman, never received any of the$600 checks he promised. He showed her what he purported to be account statements, showing her investment growing. Whenever she asked about the lack of the checks, he created excuses. In the end, she lost about$87 ,000. And to me, it reminded me of this, Sat 36 from the great movie, Catch Me If You Can. Welcome to Miami Mutual Bank. How may I help you? My name is Frank Taylor.

1:40:27I'm a co-pilot for Pan Am. I'd like to cash this check here and then I'd like to take you out for a steak dinner.

1:40:40And then we feed the checks into the maker machine, which is a special ink to encode the account numbers on the bottom of the checks. And where are these numbers? They're, um, right here. Right there? Let's see.

1:40:57they're called routing numbers so where do the checks get routed to i don't exactly know nobody ever asked me that before great movie my point being jonna it's kind of a tale as old as time yeah it sure is and look i i'm not condoning what this guy did but i have to tell you something i i giggle a little at the story because part of my research showed that he was so committed to this role pretending to be a professional football player that if you googled him he actually showed up as a professional football player megan i can't get a fucking fake review removed from google without an and an army of lawyers and this guy you google him and he shows up he's a 49er so i gotta yes it does here's video he had he posted of him pretending to sign his nfl contact contract this was obtained by outkick let's watch that south 37 my boy jay love signed this contract how you feel i'm ready ready for the season sign that bad boy who you signing with who's your decision The Niners?

1:42:15You already know the Niner game. Yes, sir. Sign a contract. Iced up. You know what I'm saying? We good to go. Let's get ready to start the season. Anything you got to say for the fans? Lookout number seven. Last name Love. Six, five, two, ten. I'm out, dude. Wild receiver. Yes, sir. Damn. I mean, points for commitment to the con, Mark, I guess. That he did, which makes him dangerous. So where does this go? You know, it's in federal court. $1.3 million sounds like a lot of money, but for federal court, that's a small amount. He's probably facing a couple of years. It's nonviolent. He'll wind up pleading out.

1:42:56He'll owe$1.3 million, which the government will never see a nickel of. He'll wind up in a camp, most likely, with no bars, no nothing. Most of my clients don't complain about the federal camp. He'll be released early, most likely, and go to a halfway house. And then he'll be on probation. Alternatively, he could have worked at a drive-thru and made minimum wage, which is what he's qualified for. So living the high life and spending a little bit of time at a camp and then coming back out and doing it again, I think that that's his choice. And that's the direction he goes. It's like so many of these fraud schemes.

1:43:33If they would have just put any of this effort into a legit job, God only knows what they could have accomplished. But instead, no. Here's another example. He's telling his Instagram followers how the NFL works. Watch part of this, Stop 38. Okay, so I'm on my way to get my mom. I know I get a lot of fans who want to know how football works or how I got involved in the league and stuff like that. I know it's difficult now since switching teams and stuff like that. Oh, my God. I just want to give some context. I know a lot of people don't understand how the NFL works. Is this as far the people who neither do you understand more about my story and get another side of the story outside of just getting drafted into the NFL?

1:44:18Oh, we're going to hear plenty of his story. And then he's going to be taken away in handcuffs. um beware buyers beware and everybody out there some rich man who swoops into your life and asks you to start paying for things is a scam run run run in the opposite direction mark and johnny great to see you we'll check you out on positively legal my friends see you more thanks for listening to the megan kelly show no bs no agenda and no fear