Lindsey Graham's Legacy, McConnell's "Proof of Life," and the Robinson Video You DIDN'T See, with Knowles, Posobiec, and Fitz | Ep. 1358

25:28I think any of us who have had sudden death in our life due to massive cardiac events look at this and say, I accept an aortic dissection wouldn't be caused by a drug, you know, like maybe a heart attack. But a night where your aorta tears, that doesn't seem like it would be charged. Whatever. They're going to do it. But there's also conspiracy theories floating about Mitch McConnell. Now, this one is kind of interesting, too. Mitch McConnell had a medical event at his house mid-month last month. the 9-1-1 dispatch is publicly available and it shows that the ems workers saying reports of an individual who is unconscious were administering cpr cpr that that's from the ems workers he goes into the hospital it's very mysterious they don't tell us exactly we never get like the official update from his team like it was a heart attack or it wasn't a heart attack the woman who broke it as an independent journalist.

26:28Then she reported last week, as we said here, we repeated here, attributing it to her that he was possibly in a coma or a vegetative state that appears not to have been true because his team says he'll he's coming back at some point soon. And they they posted this picture of former majority leader Mitch McConnell, now just Senator Mitch McConnell. He has said he's retiring before this. He's going to retire when his term ends. But in the meantime, he's still a serving U.S. senator. And there he is with his wife, Elaine Chao. And there's a picture of the Washington Post Sunday edition yesterday to prove to the world that it's current.

27:13I mean, it's a true proof of life type photo, Mike and Lowell's. He looks a little propped up. His facial expression looks odd. He's not looking into the camera. he's kind of looking up. It is a little off. I respect and like Mitch McConnell. I'm trying to be respectful of him, but this has a lot of tongues wagging about whether this is real, whether we can trust this photo. And now the team is saying, they're not saying it was a heart attack. They're just saying it was something else. Like he passed out and he had some amorphous issue, but not a heart attack. Mitch McConnell's allegedly saying that himself.

27:58So why was he getting CPR? It's just there's a lot. And by the way, Senator Graham's team said he died after a brief illness on Sunday night, a brief illness. Yeah. Why'd they say that? I thought that the autopsy says aortic dissection. That means your heart split and you dropped dead. That's not a short illness. Why wouldn't they have just said a cardiac event? I don't know what's going on, but this is exactly how conspiracy theories get started. Yes. In the case of Senator McConnell, this is some late stage Soviet Union stuff where you're propping up the leaders who seem to be croaking every six months.

28:34So literally, I don't know that I buy the excuses. I mean, right after he was brought to the hospital, you had all of these people in government and media and they all came out and they said almost the exact same thing. They said, oh, I've just spoken with Mitch McConnell for 20 minutes. We discussed Iran and the economy. We solved Fermat's last theorem. You know, we were discussing quantum entanglement. He had some really interesting insights. You think like, who is nobody's believing this? What are you talking about? And then you have the Democrat in Kentucky, Andy Beshear, the governor, who is demanding proof of life, essentially.

29:05He wants an update on the medical condition. You're getting some of that from the Republicans as well. But of course, in a very Mitch McConnell and Lindsey Graham kind of operative twist, you've got this issue where if Mitch McConnell were to have suffered a very serious medical event such that he would have to leave the Senate, if he did so before August 3rd in Kentucky, that would trigger a special election. And the special election could really mess up the Republicans in the general election, because as you point out, Mitch McConnell's not running for re-election. So you've got the table set.

29:38Everything's good to go for the re-election. We're going to have another Republican senator from Kentucky in January. But if McConnell were to leave office before then, you'd have a special election. Now you'd have a new incumbent who might run for reelection. All of a sudden, this easy replacement becomes very, very complicated. And so what's going to happen? I think people are going to be really, really cagey on Mitch McConnell until August 3rd. And I don't buy that he's, you know, speaking of all the latest updates on Plattner and Iran and all the rest of that. I guess I buy the photo. The photo is pretty weird, though, too.

30:13Then his wife, the former transportation secretary, I mean, she was in China, reportedly meeting with the vice president of China while he was in the hospital. So look, McConnell obviously is not in great health. He's frozen up in recent years. He now reportedly he took a fall also in recent days. I don't really know about any of that. The one thing I do know, people will be accused of being cynical and overly political by encouraging this kind of subterfuge and obscurity all the way through August 3rd. And I think this is classic McConnell. This is all cocaine Mitch, you know, who says that the winners make laws and the losers go home.

30:51So I'm fairly confident that he, more than anybody, would love to at least keep things going through August 3rd such that the legacy of his seat is secure. But any reporting that I'm getting until then, I'm taking it with a very, very hefty grain of salt. I know. Me too. So what he says is, again, here's the exact quote. The leaked EMS dispatch audio describes an unconscious patient with a paramedic referencing, and this is in quotes, cardiac arrest, end quote, CPR in progress. Okay. OK, then and there's video posted by TMZ of Mitch McConnell being wheeled out of his home in D.C. on a stretcher and loaded into an ambulance the morning of June 14th.

31:40Then what he said in a statement here via his staff, it's not we don't get to see him on camera. We don't get to hear him directly. Here's CNN video. I mean, it's got it's got like junior Ayatollah vibes out of out of Iran. You know how we never get to see the new Ayatollah. We just get to hear his voice. But we're not even there with Mitch McConnell. And Mitch McConnell's not gay. We should clarify that he is married to Elaine Chauss. That's one other difference between the Supreme Leader. Sorry, go on. And not a terrorist either. He says, OK. Last month, I took a fall, which landed me in the hospital.

32:18Um, my doctors have confirmed I didn't break any bones or suffer a concussion. I didn't have a heart attack or a stroke. I don't have any tumors or hemorrhages, but I was briefly unconscious and was taken to the hospital. Uh, and now I have a mild case of pneumonia. Uh, I don't know. If you look at that picture, you can see the Washington post on the bottom left corner underneath his thumb, but I'm not sure why the EMS, the people responsible for saving your life, say you had a cardiac arrest and that CPR was in progress. I think I'd be most unhappy if they performed CPR on me when my heart was fine.

32:59I was breathing. Seems like a novice mistake, Michael Dahls. I think there might be a lawsuit in order there. Yeah. I don't know what's going on, but I don't trust anybody anymore. I trust nobody for nothing. Yeah, no, I would. I remember back when I was a single guy, I'd always get in trouble for, you know, trying to perform CPR on women. And they just say, I'm not having a heart attack. What are you doing? Stop it. The other big problem for this story is the if he really had a serious heart attack, the odds of surviving a heart attack or not having very serious consequences from it at that age, not in a hospital, you know, are pretty rough.

33:37So regardless, what we do know is what we are being told about his health is that he's in tip-top shape and it's all good. And he's reading the paper and talking about Iran. And I don't think anybody really believes that. It seems that he's alive. He's Schrodinger's senator at the moment. No one is totally certain, but it seems like he's alive and communicative. But we don't really know. I'm not sure if he's communicative. Yeah, I'm skeptical. I'm pretty skeptical. But regardless, if Mitch McConnell's staff is running things as Mitch McConnell has run things for decades, we're probably not going to find out until my estimate would be August 3rd would be my guess.

34:20because the GOP is already down now. Forgive me for being so political about it, but they're down a senator now, thanks to poor Lindsey Graham dying so suddenly. So now we're down to 52. And if McConnell's down, that's 51. That doesn't leave a lot of room to maneuver for President Trump, especially when he's got senators like Collins, Murkowski, Rand Paul. There's a bunch who just can't stand Trump who aren't reliable Republican votes to begin with. So things get more and more precarious for Team Red over there in the Senate. We'll continue to follow that, too. While we're on the subject of electoral politics, an absurd piece in The Atlantic that has to be discussed for a minute was written by a guy named Russell Berman, and his headline is The Return of the Democratic Manly Man.

35:08The Democratic Manly Man is coming back, Michael Knowles. The article begins with a story on Brian Poindexter, who's running for Congress in Ohio. They point out that Poindexter had just finished wolfing down a Reuben sandwich in a deli outside of Cleveland. Reuben, man's man meat. When he had delivered a message that coming from a Democratic House candidate in the year 2026 sounded almost provocative. Quote, there's nothing wrong with being masculine, Poindexter told me. It's OK, he said, to be a manly man. Poindexter's own manliness credentials are fully in order. The 46 year old started working in a machine shop as a teenager, spent years hauling furniture across the country before finding stability as a union iron worker.

35:53He drives a Ram Bighorn pickup truck and built with his buddy turned campaign manager a shed, a shed in his backyard. Michael, he built a shed. It's part of his manly man credentials. Now, Poindexter is running for Congress, trying to flip a Republican held seat in Ohio with a pitch aimed at a constituency that has abandoned the Democratic Party over the past two decades. Men. Okay. And then it goes on to say how the Democrats have lost all men. No men voted for Kamala Harris, except if they had man buns. And the author to his credit points out that like a few months ago, he got a call from a Democratic Party operative who pitched a story on the Democrats effort to, quote, win back the manosphere.

36:36The operative ran through a list of half a dozen candidates in key house districts who are, quote, engaging culturally in male spaces because that's that's what a manly man does. He engages culturally in male spaces. And the author of the piece actually notes the absurdity of trying to pitch him on a story about winning back men by arguing these men engage culturally in male spaces and says, yeah, there is there remains anthropological distance that points to the depths of the party's problem. just in using that phrase to pitch this writer for The Atlantic on doing this story in the first place.

37:21The Democrats are focused, however, on finding manly men to run under their party banner to try to win back the manly men who rejected them soundly under President Trump during Kamala Harris's run and during the 2024 election. My daddy was a factory worker. My granddaddy laid the railroad tracks. And the one thing they both told me as a boy is to engage culturally in male spaces. You're not going to convince me otherwise, no, sir. This is really pathetic. And of course, it takes more than a Reuben sandwich to prove one's male bona fides. This guy who says that there's nothing wrong with being masculine is obviously contradicting what the entire left has now told us for about 30 years, which is that it's toxic to be masculine.

38:09The masculinity is toxic. It's poisonous. It has to be extirpated. Now the Dems realized that blew them out of the water. The reason they're focusing on... This is Poindexter, by the way. This is, yeah, you know, he's kind of got the look to him, but he doesn't have the party and he doesn't have the platform because the reason they're focusing on sex here rather than race, say. You know, they're clearly trying to run some more white guys. They had Plattner up in May, and that didn't work out so well. They have Tallarico. But the reason they're focusing on sex is because what really lost the people for the Democrats was not the hideous racial ideologies that they've been pushing.

38:49I wish that had lost the people, but it didn't. It was the sexual stuff. It was the feminism leading into the gay rights stuff, reaching its apotheosis with the transgender gender ideology, specifically transing the kids. That's what lost the common sense for the Democrats. That's what Republicans campaigned on in 2024, even when they're talking about the economy, even when they're talking about immigration, even when they're talking about foreign policy. The real cultural touchstone for them was the trans ideology because it showed that the Democrats had completely lost their judgment. And if they couldn't be trusted to know the difference between a little boy and a little girl, they couldn't be trusted on any other issue.

39:25So the Democrats know they have this existential problem that they've got to fix. But the difficulty for them is they're unwilling to give up all of the woke stuff up to and including the trans ideology. So it's one thing to go out there and say, we want to win men over again, and we want to win back the working class, and we want to win back unions, union members, by the way, who vote Republican. Even union leadership these days is not reliably Democrat. I mean, that is an existential crisis for the Dems. But but it's one thing to go out there and say it. But if you're going to if you're going to convincingly say it, you've got to give up all the gay stuff and the trans stuff and the lavender stuff.

40:03You can't have one of these guys like driving that Dodge Ram truck on like a farmer's field and pulling over and letting Dylan Mulvaney get inside. Yes. No. Yeah. I mean, you can't put on the hard hat and the vest and say, you know what we ordinary Americans care about is putting food on our table and making sure that the intersectional disadvantages that the trans Muslims have faced for decades are finally corrected. It just doesn't work. It's kind of like what Yellowstone tried to do. Yeah, they want to have the Americana, but it doesn't play. Tallarico is a clear example of this, too. At Tallarico, they say, look, we got a white guy who's straight, I guess, and Christian.

40:44But then he opens his mouth and, you know, his girlfriend lives in Canada or whatever. You know, she goes to another school and then his Christianity is not Christian at all. And it doesn't play. That's some weird thoughts about the Virgin Mary. Yeah, yeah. I mean, and about God himself as being non-binary. And so it doesn't work. To me, the clearest expression of this problem for the Dems is Gavin Newsom. because he knows that he can't win as a woke guy, one, because he's a white guy, and so he just won't be able to win that faction. But he knows that the Democrat Party still demands the woke stuff.

41:19So, you know, one day he's hosting Charlie Kirk and Steve Bannon on his podcast, and then the next day he's calling Stephen Miller a fascist and he's playing to the most radical elements of the Democrat Party. And he just, now he's getting the worst of all worlds because he can't pick a lane. The Democrats - Yeah, he looks schizophrenic. Yes, they can't leave the woke stuff. So they're in. If and when we see Poindexter come out and denounce this, then we'll know we found a real manly man. And by this, I mean Elliot Page, whose real name is Ellen, who was the star of Juno, who was a very cute girl, who now wants us to believe that she's a he, a very unconvincing he, and is starring in a major role in the new version of The Odyssey, which is very woke and absurd, and also has just put out some, she's voicing a film called Second Nature, which is a nature film directed by queer filmmaker Drew Denny and narrated by Paige about how animals are also gay.

42:26It explores same-sex relationships in the animal world, and she is making a publicity tour for these two movies and giving us some barn burners of some sound bites. Let me start with number nine. Let's start with number nine. In terms of looking at nature as if it's some sort of heteropatriarchal structure is absurd and that this gender binary that we've created is nothing but a quaint little myth. And I think, you know, her work and this documentary really, really shows that what we have been taught in school in regards to these structures, men being superior, women being inferior, you know, submissive or what have you, it being this heterosexual existence is just completely false.

43:26looking at nature as some cis hetero patriarchal structure is absurd michael you are absurd i i feel you do this i've said it for years that you know we got to look past the cis hetero patriarchy of nature what's so stunning to me about what she says is she's she's burning down a straw man she says you know the stuff we're all taught in school about how men are superior to women. What are you talking about? We're not. What we're taught in school now is that women are superior to men and men are toxic. But even if you go back to the bad olden days of the 1950s or something, we weren't even taught that then.

44:03We were taught that men and women are complementary, that we're distinct and we cooperate together. But women are better at some things. Women are better at being women, for instance, and men are better at being men. And when men try to be women or women try to be men like Ellen Page, it's not convincing at all. Ellen Page is an actress. And actresses are universally 100 % crazy since the dawn of time. So the fact that this woman has an obviously severe mental illness, nothing about that is surprising. I guess what's really sad is that it used to be that actors and actresses would harness their innate insanity into the imaginative world of the work of art.

44:44And now it's bled out and they're treating the entire world as their canvas, as their kind of performance. And it's not persuasive at all. And it really might destroy Christopher Nolan's Odyssey. It was unclear who she's going to play. Wait a second. Before we get to the Odyssey, I just want to say one thing. So this business about the LGBTQ animal world, the truth is literally no one on earth has given that any thought whatsoever. No one is walking around like, are animals gay? Are they queer? Where do I find the gay penguins? Are those two lesbo kangaroos? It's not a thing. Only people who look like Ellen Page and are so unconvincingly trying to convince us they're the opposite sex are thinking about such a thing.

45:31So now there's been a lot of negative reaction to this woman having a role in the Odyssey as some sort of, you know, strong male figure. There was a report that she was meant to play Achilles. That apparently is not true. She's playing some other character who I guess isn't even in the Odyssey, but is in some other ancient story and has been written in. And in the context of, I think, promoting that, she went on something called Democracy Now!, gave an interview with them on June 24th and said the following about people who don't like trans people. All right. It's all about the fact that she's trans, not that she's a woman and not convincingly chosen to play a strong male ancient figure.

46:19Here we go. And what do you say to young people? who feel the way you do? Just to know that you're not alone and loved and celebrated by so many and try and block out the noise from absolute vile losers who must just be so profoundly uncomfortable with themselves they can't handle that someone could get to a place that I think, you know, that, you know, trans people do get to, which is a level of self-acceptance and understanding that I think is really beautiful and profound. So it is the critics of this transgender ideology who are profoundly uncomfortable with themselves, Michael. The lady doth protest too much, me thinks.

47:19Is that from a play? I think that's from a play. It's really sad watching and listening to her in this state of mania because she doesn't look healthy, she doesn't sound healthy, and she doesn't look happy. This is the real problem. Not at all. So you look at old pictures of her when she was a lady, and she still is a lady, but back when she was openly so, and she looks happier. And now she never looks happy. Yeah, she was pretty, pretty girl. And I'm sure she has experienced all sorts of trauma and psychological distress and all the rest is probably lettered to this. But notice she has to immediately project and say, no, no, it's the people who criticize transgenderism.

47:59They're the ones who are deeply uncomfortable. And I'm slightly uncomfortable because I ate a lot of hoagies over my weekend. And so my, you know, my pants are a little tighter now. But in terms of my identity as a human being, I'm not uncomfortable. And normal people are not uncomfortable. That's the defining feature of having a normal view of identity. And it either doesn't occur to them or they don't want to admit that some of the criticism of transgenderism, in fact, a lot of it, comes from a place of charity. Because we all know that you're not doing well. We all look at the statistics. We all know that the rates of depression, anxiety, and suicide do not decrease after the transition.

48:37In the case of anxiety, it looks like they actually increase. We have eyes. We have ears. Yeah. Let me show you one other. This is her in 2019 talking about Jussie Smollett. Tell me if this is a well. We have a media that's saying it's a debate whether or not what just happened to Jussie Smollett is a hate crime. It's absurd. This s*** isn't a debate. I agree. I agree. In terms of connecting the dots, in terms of what happened the other day to Jussie, I don't know him personally. I sent all of my love. Connect the dots. this is what happens if you are in a position of power and you hate people and you want to cause suffering to them you go through the trouble you spend your career trying to cause suffering what do you think is going to happen kids are going to be abused and they're going to kill themselves and people are going to be beaten on the street.

49:38I have traveled the world and I have met the most marginalized people you could meet. I am lucky to have this time and the privilege to say this. Okay. Except he was a race hoaxer and she's one of those sick young women who takes on other people's problems literally as her own and is completely distressed over something she's seen in the news, which was obvious bullshit. And somehow at some point thereafter convinced herself that cutting off her breasts would make things better. And clearly, Michael, it did not. Well, Megan, you're telling me that the lady who thinks that she is a man has a skewed perception of reality.

50:18When she's connecting the dots, she's connecting them to places that don't really exist. Yeah, of course. What's also sad when you listen to that kind of commentary is she accuses the other side of hating people. And that isn't real. You know, that, I mean, obviously some people, you know, it's a fallen world. People say nasty stuff, but the left hates the right much more than the right hates the left. And this is borne out by social scientific data. This goes back to the death of Lindsey Graham. And we especially saw this after a radical leftist murdered Charlie Kirk. And then a lot of the mainstream left dismissed it and in some cases celebrated it.

50:53And so they're, they're projecting it onto the other side. And if I were them, if I were these people who are, who really are angry all the time, who really are consumed by a lot of hatred, who would celebrate the murder of innocent people on the other side just for their politics or what have you. If I were them, rather than looking at the other side of basically well-adjusted conservatives, rather than looking at it with envy and hatred and all the rest, couldn't you just look at it and say, hey, maybe I should be like that? Maybe I should learn something from them because they seem better adjusted than I do.

51:20Look at it as inspo. All right, we'll have to table the Super girl discussion for another day because we got carried away on Mitch McConnell, of all things. Michael, thank you. Coming up, we'll have Jack Posobiec and James Fitzgerald, criminal profiler. When you sign your insurance policy for some brokers, that's the finish line, handshake, they get their commission, and then they're kind of done with you. You may not hear from them again until it's time for renewal, in which case, once again, they're your best friend. That's annoying. But your business runs all year, and so do the gaps and the risk, and things happen.

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53:18Last week, we watched Tyler Robinson sit in a court for a preliminary hearing, and we brought you every second that was live streamed on our YouTube channel. But we, the media and the public did not see everything that those inside that courtroom did. Joining us now to detail a key piece of evidence that was shown only to those in the courtroom after the day had basically ended on Friday, after we had signed off, is our friend Jack Posobiec. He's a TPUSA contributor and Human Events Live host and was a dear, dear friend of Charlie Kirk's. Jack, welcome back. So tell us what you saw in court on Friday afternoon.

53:56Hey, Megan, thanks again for having me back. And so as I understand it, the live stream basically cut out for everybody who was watching, but for us, there was no stream, it just kept going. And so this was the compilation video that had been played before, but the exhibit that they played before was the raw video only. So that compilation of Tyler Robinson walking around the stairwell, once in his red shirt and shorts, once in his black, his second costume, sort of his assassins get up, his sniper get up, whatever you call it, where he's black, that's the one where he's walking with the limb.

54:37And the biggest difference here is that in the raw version of this, it was not zoomed in when it got to that sort of wide angle shot of the parking lot. I think there's two, and there's two angles of that. There's one that really shows the walkway across to the Lossi Center. And the other one sort of just shows the parking lot and the cars and the other side of the roof. And later on, we've all seen that video because it was released earlier where he's running across, he drops down, he's got the gun and then he runs across the um there's like a lawn and a hill there and he runs basically across the street what we saw in court this is the video of him just running across the rooftop so essentially what we saw was actually this angle but a few minutes prior to this so this is the same angle this is what you see although the quality here is not as good as what we saw in court.

55:39And that's why I keep pressing for all of these videos to make public because again, what they showed on that screen in court is so much clearer, both on the stairwell videos and the rooftop videos, even on the, I guess it's a digital zoom in. It's so much clearer. And I just, I have to explain that to everybody over and over. That's why the raws need to be put out. Even the video you're showing right now, this, because I know it came off of a screen and it was recorded off another screen and et cetera, et cetera. So there's that loss of quality from all the details that you can see in the video when it's being played on its raw version without all the compression you get.

56:18I'm there for the listeners. We're watching the stiff-legged Tyler Robinson walk into the complex with what appears to be the gun down his pants. But keep going, Jack. Of course. And so the really big thing that you see when it's zoomed in, And so at first you can clearly tell that it is a black clad individual. The timestamps line up to exactly when he gets to the top of the stairwell, that individual. And if you go back to the first officer's testimony on the very first day, he walks you through exactly what you see on the video. But the difference is now you're watching it for yourself when it's zoomed in.

56:59and it shows him come up to that guardrail, that student guardrail that was already there. He climbs over it. Then he goes down into kind of a crouch. And at that point, I started actually timing it because that's when we're told that he was assembling the rifle. And so I start timing it, you know, 1 ,001, 1 ,002, 1 ,003, cuts to a different angle, so I'm not sure if that kept the time or not, but when it cuts to that different angle, what you see is that he gets up, he runs across the roof, he gets down in a prone position, and again, you look at the timestamp, and you can see exactly what he's doing in that prone position.

57:46You see the barrel of the rifle go out. And I'm sitting there just saying, you know, it's 1222 and I was trying to will it to not get to 1223 for some reason because we all know what happened to 1223. and you see the moment the shot is fired, you see him get up and that's when the run across the roof occurs and it's that run, of course, that's already been released and I just have to say that sitting there in the courtroom, watching the moment the shot is fired with Charlie's wife, with Charlie's mom, his dad, sitting right there it was a moment that made me very angry I was very upset watching that because it was like watching Charlie get killed all over again but now you're seeing the other side of it and realizing that the individual who all the evidence points to DNA everything is sitting right there right in the room and it And he looked away.

59:07Tyler Robinson looked away when this was played. And I checked with some other people in the courtroom to verify this, but his table monitor, they have table monitors as well. His table monitor was turned off when this was played. He didn't even watch. couldn't bear to see himself do it but was full of bravado in the moment and in the days and hours thereafter as we see in those text messages you know guess grandpa's rifle worked just fine that scope was only two thousand dollars he was yeah he did his job not feeling uh the same but what what was it about when you saw him go down so he was he crouched to we assume to assemble the weapon and then did you see him go on his stomach in a in a prone position yeah and then and then also did you like what about what happened next told you he fired a shot um so you see him run across it gets down in the crouch and he is he's prone for quite some time um you know obviously watching it's very emotional to me it felt like he was down for minutes but But, you know, I think it was probably less than that if you actually look at the clock.

1:00:23But the experience felt like it lasted hours to me just watching it. But I would say I've described it as like a like a flinch. It's not as much recoil as you would see. So when you're in the prone position, it's done to maximize accuracy and to minimize recoil. That's the entire point of the prone position when you're firing. And so it seems as though there's a flinch from the barrel and, you know, sort of through the body. And it's after that point, which occurs again, right at that same timestamp. And it's right after that, that he gets up and runs across. Wow. I mean, would you liken it to what we saw on the judge when he watched the moment that Charlie was killed?

1:01:12And I believe he was watching Charlie, you know, you saw that tape or you might've been in the courtroom in that moment where the judge, you know, the shot hits and he flinches. It's, um, I would. And just for me, I, I just remember kind of gripping the chair as hard as I could and just clenching my jaw. and you know i had my rosary in my hand a lot of people had rosaries out a number of people turned away um it was it was very hard that this is on tape i'm shocked to hear it i'm shocked to hear there is tape of him actually taking the shot and i know people who don't think he did it will say well of somebody whatever i mean i'm with you the evidence is overwhelming that somebody was tyler robinson they've got time stamps they've got him identified by his boyfriend as being the man in the video, especially in the dark outfit and so on.

1:02:09We've got video of what we know was Tyler Robinson in Tyler Robinson's car arriving earlier. His DNA is on the rifle, all over the rifle, actually, all over the ammo. I mean, it's just, it's overwhelming. But I am surprised to hear that there is a videotape of him actually taking the shot because in all the videos that had been released, we had never seen that or still shots. We had never seen that, that's the most relevant salient video of all. It really is. And I struggle to think of, you know, you think of the great, you know, like the famous assassinations of the past or, you know, go back to like World War I and, you know, Franz Ferdinand or, you know, even, you know, obviously JFK and Martin Luther King, you know, we never actually have photos of the individual, at least, you know, as far as I know, a video of the video.

1:03:04No, no, I don't think so either. Of the shot being taken. I'm trying to think if there's even one where you have something like that. And it was, it was so much worse than watching a movie. And I think that for people who think that, you know, watching, oh, you know, I've seen something like that in a movie or like a Mark Wahlberg movie or something. It's like, no, this is, this is a million times worse. This is this because you know, it's real. And because you know what happened to a human being. And because of the amount of planning and the amount of premeditation that went into this is a struggle to even think of how to define it as other than watching an act of pure, unmitigated evil.

1:03:42You're just watching a purely evil act being taking place before your eyes and it was captured on video. And you, by the way, had no idea if anyone else was standing behind Charlie or behind that. You can't see behind that banner. So, I mean, if he missed, people were obviously all around, children were all around, had no idea if anyone was behind the banner. And he just did it anyway. And he chose to do something like that. And it's truly evil. It's just truly evil to see. What do you make of the very strange reaction to your reporting? Because you came out on Friday, you and I were texting, you posted online, and you gave an interview to Charlie's old colleagues.

1:04:26at Turning Point, Andrew and Blake. And immediately we had like backlash. It was strange, Jack, like backlash to your reporting. There is a podcaster named Brandy Siciliani who posted the following on X. I was in the courtroom today. There is no high quality zoomed in footage showing anyone taking a shot. The video shown is the same distance as the footage of, quote, Tyler. His name is in quotes. jumping off the roof shown in this screenshot. I have no idea why people are claiming otherwise. They know the video isn't going to be released publicly. So they're misrepresenting what was actually shown in court.

1:05:09And then she takes aim at Benny, who was also there, Benny Johnson. Benny is making it seem like there's a 4k quality video of Tyler pulling the trigger. And we all know that is absolutely not true. So what did you make of her and some others taking issue with your testimonial? Well, what's amazing is the fact that we have this video at all. And if people are going to split hairs over whether or not we can actually see a finger, you know, in the trigger well and pulling the trigger, I mean, you've completely lost the plot at this point, if that's the level you're going to. The idea that we have this video, that it exists, that is one of the most stunning moments, one of the most impactful moments in modern history.

1:05:55The murder of Charlie Kirk, the assassination of Charlie Kirk, and the fact that this video exists at all is something that should give us all pause. I mean, it speaks to, it is a video that, number one, should be released, and I don't know why they're saying it shouldn't be released or that I think it won't be released. I've been calling for it to be released since day one. But this is a video that will be played throughout the decades, throughout the centuries, because of how impactful and how historic it is. It's just a piece of history. And for the record, we've been fighting. I didn't want it to be released by this.

1:06:31I've been fighting and saying that all of the evidence and all of the live stream should be out publicly. And I think that ultimately, you know, if people can see it for themselves, they can go and watch it. And, you know, do I wish the quality were better? I mean, of course, I wish all videos quality were better. But again, I mean, that's that's you know, you're asking for something that's surveillance video. Right. The point is that it's surveillance video. We're lucky it exists at all. Right. Anything. And some people who refuse to believe that Tyler Robinson did this have been saying for quite some time.

1:07:03Oh, but there's no video of the actual shooting. Oh, it's so convenient how they only have him running across the roof. and then we actually find out there is video of the actual moment the shooter drops down and pulls the trigger and still they won't accept it i mean it's just you we're never going to get through to them i i don't even really care about them to be honest i just think and and i i want to know your opinion as somebody who sat in that courtroom all week to me the evidence is overwhelming we never have this much evidence to me it's so it's so overwhelming it shows that Tyler Robinson did not care at all about getting caught.

1:07:39He did next to nothing to cover his tracks. Well, I mean, it beggars belief that he thought he would do this, again, with his own cell phone, with his own car, with shoes that he's known to wear, with a hat that he commonly wears, these Hurley hats that are readily identifiable. I mean, you'd think that anyone who, you know, even to have a basic, you know, look at criminal justice procedures or, you know, watch movies or listen to some true crime podcasts, you might've heard a few things. I think, and again, it's just my speculation, but I think that there was an element of wanting the glory. I think there was an element of trying to impress Twiggs, the boyfriend here.

1:08:20I think there were a lot of these elements that went into it, to your point, that it was completely premeditated and that he was perhaps looking for recognition and renown. Again, I've sat there, I haven't said a word to him directly, but you look at these things and it just, you ask yourself, why would he do something that you think in 2026 that everybody knows that they're going to check the car, they're going to check your phone, they're going to check all of these things. And as far as that video, look, no one's going to tell me I didn't see what I saw. and quite frankly I wish I hadn't seen it and I wish that none of this had happened because I hate all of this but it did happen and unfortunately we are left to do the best we can to pick up the pieces and continue to fight.

1:09:07Jack you're one of the few people Erica, Charlie's parents, Don Jr. among them Benny who both was in the presence regularly of Charlie Kirk and the man he was And now this week, this past week was in the presence of the man who killed him, allegedly. And I wonder, as you see this pathetic being sitting there at defense counsel table, what what he looks like to you, what aura he has, what vibe he gives off, like what you feel when you look at him. Interestingly enough, it's almost like there's no aura. When you ask about that, it's almost like a negative aura, like a black hole. Just like a black hole of hollowness, emptiness, like there's nothing there.

1:10:01And to not react when you see some of these videos or hear some of the audio that's been played because they did play the audio of Charlie being killed in the shot ringing out in the courtroom at full volume, even if they didn't show the video, and I'm sure you've seen the video, that I just, I don't know how you don't react to something like that. And, you know, refusing to acknowledge the presence of his parents when they showed up who have been completely sown-faced and, as far as I can tell, you know, keeping to themselves. They seem like good people. And And but but Tyler as well, it as far as I feel about it, it's I just I can't believe that he's sitting there and Charlie's not that he's sitting there on the first day was laughing in front of us.

1:10:55And that Charlie's gone and that Charlie's never going to come back. and that, you know, I'll just put it this way, Megan. When they played that video, initially speaking, I was not in a good place.

1:11:10What was the reaction inside the courtroom of Erica and Charlie's parents? Incredibly emotional. Just, I would say, when they played it, so there was no audio on this particular compilation because it's, again, a surveillance video, which typically doesn't have audio. and the room was as silent as a tomb. You couldn't even hear people breathing because I think people were holding their breath. And then when that moment came up, you just heard gasps, sobs,

1:11:51uncontrollable tears from a lot of people. And it was horrible. that just the people's reaction was horrible.

1:12:03It's something it's, I know you said this is the most disturbing thing you've said you've seen since we all saw the video of Charlie actually shot. I can understand it because there is something about knowing just as you said in the moment, you know, like it must've been excruciating leading up to that 1223 as the seconds are ticking by, you know, what's going to happen, but you're watching him gearing up for it. everyone knows what's about to happen except for Charlie in that moment. You know, it's like that, just the dread and anticipation to try to stop the clock and undo this horrible event we've all been living with.

1:12:39And when he was walking up the stairs, I was, you know, cause it's, it just seems slower to me. I don't know if they played on a slower speed or it's just the emotions of it, but I was sitting there and, you know, thinking like, cause he's walking by all these students, right? There's, there's some students in the parking garage. there's some students in the stairwell and i'm just thinking you know somebody stop him just just somebody just step in front of him or or trip him or just do something somebody do something you can't let him do this and of course you know it's you know rationally obviously i know what happens, but it's that, you know, that part of me that wanted this to never happen just sort of took over.

1:13:30And I'm, I'm, I'm finding myself trying to like, will him to trip or have one of these other students just brush up against him. So maybe the, you know, maybe the gun falls out and history takes a different path. I wonder, I've often wondered what these other students who we see in that surveillance tape think when they see themselves passing by Charlie's killer alleged on the stairwell moments before, as the tape says, it's exactly 30 minutes before. I'm sure it's so chilling for them and their parents that they could have, as you point out, this is one of the reasons why it's a death penalty case is that all of their lives were in danger that day.

1:14:10He could have missed. He, he, what if he had missed on the first shot, there would have been more shots that it was such a crowded field. He had absolutely no compunctions about the children who were there. I mean, little kids who were there with their parents as well as college students. He had only one thing in mind and it appears to have been his trans furry lover who is a lot sicker than that videotape he put into evidence would reveal. That's one of the topics for the second half of our show today. I'll give you the last word, Jack. No, I just want people to know that this, I'm not interested in trying to win some online debate or something like that.

1:14:49This is about getting justice for what happened, real justice. This is about what evidence is being shown in court. And we have to remember that this happened. And we can't act like it didn't because, unfortunately, we live in a world where there are people willing to do this. And there are people who are willing to do this to so many other conservatives that keep trying to do it to Trump. They've done it to a CEO in New York City, and they will not stop. And if we don't actually confront this assassination culture, the violent political left that is getting absolutely feral, then they will come for every single one of us.

1:15:35today's the two-year anniversary of butler pennsylvania yeah and president trump uh almost the victim of an assassination attempt to cory corporate comparatory dying in that same incident two others being shot and and all but forgotten by the media which wants to write them off as like non-existent and then a year later we would all be down with charlie in was it san anton where where were we now for it for the student summit of july last year where was it tampa tampa yeah yeah tampa um that was a year ago jack we were all together one year ago with charlie it's just hard to believe in some ways it seems like another lifetime ago and at that point he had two months to live and we had no idea so i'm with you we'll over here we'll be sticking to reality to facts that are provable in court under the rules of evidence, which have been established for a long, long time to ensure fair and just trials in accordance with the principles of due process.

1:16:39Well, Megan, actually, if I could throw one tiny thing out is where's the alibi? If this isn't Tyler, where's the alibi? Just show me the alibi that says that he was not there. Where was he? What else was he doing? I mean, I understand how the burden of proof works. But again, it's a simple common sense question. If he wasn't there, where was he? Where's the alibi? And I said, I tweet over the weekend and I totally agree. Where's the cell phone evidence on his side? Showing it like if I were innocent, if you wanted to see whether Megyn Kelly was at UVU on September 10th of 2025, I would turn over my phone and you would see exactly where I was.

1:17:17Exactly. You'd know exactly what my emotions were that entire day. Where's that? It's in the hands of the prosecutors and it doesn't help him at all. It shows, according to the, actually, there was a lawyer who went online and actually found the search warrant application that was submitted in this case. It was, I'll find her name, but she did a great breakdown of exactly what it showed. Yeah, it was Andrea Burkhardt. She's phenomenal. And it showed he had a Google Maps route stored on his phone. It started at 1246 p.m., so 23 minutes after the shooting. On 9-10, it started near the Mountain Shadow Shopping Center, seven minutes from the crime scene.

1:18:00Destination was the Quick Quack Car Wash on North State Street in Oren. Investigators then pulled records and videos from that car wash showing Tyler Robinson's 2013 Dodge Challenger with their same license plate as Tyler Robinson's arriving at 12.57 p.m. The Google Map route and footage line up with Robinson at that location. A second route was stored at 1.33 a.m. on 9-11. So overnight heading into overnight from the day of the shooting Wednesday into Thursday, starting near where his rifle was recovered and running straight back to Tyler Robinson's home address in St. George. There's no question where he was.

1:18:36He was there. And there's going to be more details than that as we get the full prosecution case. I got to run. Jack, thank you. Thank you. Now I'm thinking, why did he get his car washed? I know me too. I have no idea. Maybe there was something that he thought was on it that was somehow incriminating. Maybe he got the inside cleaned and he was looking to get rid of gun powder, you know, gun residue that he thought might have been transferred from his clothing onto the doors. And so you and I don't know, but I guarantee you the cops and the police do and the prosecutors do. Seems like, what do they call that?

1:19:12They call that a loose thread. A loose thread. Yeah. They're pulling on it right now. We'll see you soon. God bless, Megan. Thank you. You too. Up next, we've got James Fitzgerald, and we have been asking him, former FBI, as you know, and he's a linguist as well. We've been asking him to look at the Tyler Robinson alleged texts and letter communications and his behavior in court. and he has a lot of thoughts about what might have made this relatively mild, seeming kind of normal. I don't know if normal is too strong, but like not that flashy, not that interesting character turn into what's going to be one of the most infamous assassins in US history.

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1:22:43As we continue to parse through the revelations coming out of Tyler Robinson's preliminary hearing, major questions remain unanswered. what drove a seemingly normal young man in utah to the point of committing an assassination and what picture does the evidence presented up to this point paint for us joining us now to discuss is james fitzgerald he's a criminal profiler and retired fbi special agent and co-host of the cold red podcast he's also a linguist so has made the study of language part of his business. Fitz, welcome back. There is videotape of Tyler Robinson and his mother. Just a few years ago, it was, I think, when he graduated from high school, and he had just gotten news from a university of his admission.

1:23:33And they made one of those videos of like, wow, you did it. And here it is. Okay. Congratulations. You have been selected to received the resident presidential scholarship from Utah State University. The value of this scholarship is approximately$32 ,000. This scholarship is available for four years or eight semesters.

1:23:56There he was. Apparently he received a perfect score on the ACT. He had straight A's. He only lasted one semester at that university and then left and wound up at a technical college learning how to be an electrician. There's nothing wrong with being an electrician. I'm just saying it was somewhat of a reversal of fortune. Clearly, we don't know what happened. And we certainly don't fully understand yet how that young man turned into an assassin. So what do you make of it, Fitz? Well, Megan, first of all, it's good to be back with you again, always, of course, on some kind of a sad topic here.

1:24:34But it's really a toxic influence of a lot of things and i'm looking between uh i don't even like using their names but the shooter and his lover uh lance this toxic combination of substance abuse of gaming uh and no doubt pot smoking tie that in with uh substance abuse alcoholism and uh and these these game room these chat rooms of associated with the gaming as well as other no doubt uh very negative oriented chat rooms that it just creates a perfect storm over this. I used this term before, lost generation. I didn't originate that. It was a bunch of authors and novelists 100 years ago. But now it's these, not all Gen Z people, but there seem to be late teens through late 20s, just an ignorance of the basic rules of society, of morality, where death is the answer to everything, because that's what happens in their games, of course.

1:25:36And then they come their character comes back to life, you know, minutes later. And I'm not going to blame necessarily bad parenting. In this case, the shooter's parents turned him in, you know, within 48 hours or so. I'll give them some credit there. That video you just showed. I mean, I guess that's a proud mom. Other proud moms do things like that with their kids. But what downward spiral, what catalyst, what epiphany struck this eventual shooter in his life, in his prime, to then begin this downward spiral, which resulted in, again, pulling the trigger on a rooftop and killing Charlie Kirk?

1:26:17I don't have all the answers. I hope as part of his sentencing, he's willing to do not only a psych eval, but before he's probably going to be executed if convicted, that whatever's happening with the Long Island serial killer who's agreed, but it's part of his sentencing to, in fact, be interviewed by my former colleagues in the behavioral analysis unit. I would love to see an in-depth interview of this person and maybe just scratch the surface of what turned this guy from, quote unquote, relatively normal to a stone cold assassin. what do you make of the of the language fits because this is right up your alley that he uses in these alleged texts where he talks about how um i had the opportunity to take out charlie kirk and i took it this is the letter that he wrote to lance twigs and that was burned but found well twigs had taken a picture of it which is how we know it was in it and then they found the burn remnants in the trash can of the kitchen i don't know if i will have succeeded but i had hoped to make it home to you.

1:27:22I wish we could have lived in a world where this did not feel necessary. I wish I could have stayed with you and lived our lives together. I lack the words to express how much I love you and how very much you mean to me. Please try and find joy in this life. I love you always, Tyler. And he also says at the top, I left the house this morning on a mission and said an auto text. I am likely dead or facing a lengthy prison sentence. he may lack the words to prove his love for uh lance but he went out and did something that that afternoon to try to prove it which of course was the was a murder of charlie kirk i was surprised by the kind of almost casual stream of consciousness utilized in these text messages sometimes you see them much more emotionality involved or anger or vitriol of some sort, but these were not quite contemporaneous to the shooting itself, but I think within 12 or certainly 24 hours of the shooting.

1:28:23And apparently he is, IRL, as the young say in real life, is unchartered territory for the shooter. He didn't comprehend, he clearly didn't comprehend and the long-term scope of his actions and what he was about to undertake. He thought about it short-term. Certainly the pre-offense behavior is suggestive of that and everything he put into it, getting grandpa's gun and engraving the cartridges, whatever. But he didn't think of the long-term part, as you were saying with your earlier guests, with his phone and his car and knowing that there'd be surveillance video around and wearing clothes that everyone would recognize him in.

1:29:05But the casualness and just the way that he came across to his lover Lance is almost like, hey, this is no big deal. I've done it for you. Let's do burgers tonight for dinner would almost be like a fitting ending phrase or clause to these text messages. So like I was saying to Jack, he says, judging from today, I'd say grandpa's gun does just fine. I don't know. IDK, I think that was a$2 ,000 scope. So irrelevant to what had just happened. So meaningless to what had just happened. I mean, we get the context it's put in, and he's probably not lying there. It was probably a decent scope. And the rifle, unfortunately, did its job.

1:29:52But the point is to have that kind of a conversation with someone who's your lover, someone you spend some time with. But it was a symbiotic relationship in which It seems they're both of their strongest negative aspects to their lives just fed off of each other. And it seems like towards the last few months from everything I've read about them and heard about these two, they were kind of isolated, not so much dealing with other people. Not that the other people they were dealing with on these chat rooms were prize pigs to begin with in terms of their ideology and what they were espousing, certainly in the trans movement and others.

1:30:28But it seems like they really isolated themselves in those last few months. And when you only have an echo chamber of one other person and your thought processes are negative and the same, violent, immoral, some people will react as the shooter did and will take out those types of actions. But it's just a combination, like I said, a toxic formula of everything that could have gone wrong in this generation. And I would like to look more into the parenting of both of these guys, but certainly our shooter, and see just what kind of permissiveness, just what kind of parental relationships he had. They were both the black sheep of the family, supposedly, meaning the shooter and, of course, Lance.

1:31:14By the way, I don't say shooter's names. I think you know that about me. Killer's names. But in this particular case, they were the black sheep of their families. And yeah, what led to this downward progression? But yet when they communicate with one another, it seems almost normal. It seems like a regular, you know, pick up milk on the way home, you know, from work, something like that with these casual text messages. And of course, the letter left under the keyboard. All pre-planned to some degree, the letter was. And just one last conversation with Lance. I'm looking for like, I'm looking, James, for like something more about what it tells you.

1:31:51Like if you were looking for this shooter and you had these text messages, but you didn't know who they were from, you didn't have an identity. And you're sitting at the FBI trying to come up with a profile of who is this guy? He sounds, you kind of said this a second ago, kind of dead inside. Jack Posobiec just told us there is no aura around him in the courtroom. It's like a black hole. Like, what would you glean from these texts? What would we be looking for? Would you be shocked when it turned out to be this guy? And that was what I normally had to do in my FBI career is look at anonymous text or emails or postings of some sort.

1:32:28You know, Tom Wolf coined the term social x-rays, describing a certain subclass, you know, in New York City. I would call a guy like this and maybe throw in Lance, too, social vacuums. They just they just they're they're just dark, empty vessels of people. And, yeah, they interact with each other. They have emotions for each other. But it seems the rest of the world just just they're shut off to it and they're shut off with any type of reality there. If I was looking at this from an anonymous perspective, I would I would say, well, this person is very matter of fact, very. And knowing that a shooting just occurred and this is our likely suspect, even without a name, I'd say this person is very well.

1:33:11He has his emotions under control. He has little caring at all. for the victims of this. And as you mentioned with your earlier guests, the possible other victims, including small children, if there were a few rounds that missed or went through and hit other people behind Charlie. I would probably put this person somewhere on the psychopathy scale, meaning he's a psychopath. It goes from zero to 40. I'm not here to do a psychovalve of him. I'm sure the defense team will do that. That'll be part of the defense somewhere they're going to add into that at some point. And he may be on there to some degree.

1:33:47He can cope with society, everyday stuff, going to work, doing his trade work, whatever that was. But when it comes to him getting this personal hung up feelings about what is offensive to him, as well as his lover, he just had to go on this mission. And this mission is what took over his It does make you wonder if he hadn't met Lance Twiggs, whether this event would have happened, because I'm not excusing anything that was done here or giving him an out. I'm just saying, let's be real about the downward spiral that happened in the year or two years after he moved in with Twiggs in 2023. They became roommates.

1:34:30The other roommates had split. these two were in a very unhealthy relationship with that was characterized by excessive drinking, at least on Twigs's part. The report that we got from this guy who goes by Turkey Tom on YouTube, who was contacted by someone saying that they'd been an intimate friend of theirs and provided pictures of what he says was inside the apartment, was that it was near alcoholic levels of drinking on the part of Twigs, who was taking off a black market HRT hormone replacement therapy for women, those are women's drugs, trying to grow breasts, doing weird experiments inside of the apartment with mold.

1:35:06This is directly from, again, he goes by Turkey Tom from his report. Let's take a listen to a little bit more of what he said about what was the conditions, what were the conditions inside the apartment. I had another magic night at the end of January. I'd get to Lance and Tyler's place and he'd be super wide eyed with either a loopy grin or a rictus grin like the Joker, depending on his mood. The nest came back full force, and Lance started living downstairs full time again. This is a picture of a kind of cleaned up version. Imagine this type of mess, but denser and all over the living room and kitchen counters.

1:35:40He'd either be doing this, or his experiments, or talking with chat GPT day in and day out. He hardly ever slept. The experiments got scarier too, like jugs of water with a whisk full of aluminum foil that had two copper wires coming out of them. The water was clear one day, and at some point, I think the wires got plugged into the outlet because the water turned brown and the aluminum foil was pretty burnt. He also started leaving little papers around the house that he had scribbled on while doing that giggling thing. It's at this point that our leaker here sent an extensive set of pictures he'd taken of the state of the apartment and the notes Lance left around.

1:36:15First is an image of their magic table, completely vandalized with garbage that mostly resembles electrical stuff which is odd because tyler was the one in an electrical apprenticeship program not lance all i can think when i see that that's is how dark and almost demonic a place to live day after day yeah and i um these guys played the game uh dungeons and dragons and i first learned about that during the unabomb investigation because some people thought The Unabomber may be somehow involved in that, but carrying it out in real time in real world actions. And who knows if what took place in that apartment and with all these type of devices and experiments going on, which, of course, the Unabomber did, too, mostly outside of his cabin in the woods.

1:37:09So perhaps there's some similar mindsets here of these isolated people, even if it's just two of them and a few guests every once in a while. But their brain just gets addled, again, from this toxic formula I talked about earlier. And they just feel the need to do all these types of bizarre, incoherent type of activities. And they only work to worsen the other person with whom they're associating. and bring up the fact that Charlie Kirk's coming to town and allegedly what he would say that, you know, violated the trans community and their belief systems. And then, and all of a sudden, all these experiments, just like with the Unabomber, having read all his internal documents we found in the cabin, it just got him more angry and angry about where society was going.

1:37:54In this case, we don't see too much of a difference there with these two. But it was very, very focused in one particular area, get the gun from grandpa and then go on this mission. Again, Dungeons and Dragons related. What is the, is it self-aggrandizement? The, you know, some hate can't be negotiated out, you know, just like he's going to step in, he's going to take care of this figure, you know, because he's just too hateful. What is that? You know, I've worked many investigations besides Unabom, but that taught me so much and the law enforcement community. One of the few books cited by the Unabomber in the manifesto was The True Believer by Eric Hoffer.

1:38:38And he does go and explain the kind of these kind of movements that people get involved in and the kind of people that join these movements and for what reason. And I'm not going to say you don't have to read these books or read, you know, True Believer to understand this. But it seems there's something in human nature with disassociated, dissatisfied people, insecure people that they turn into this fanatic. And it can be very sort of pencil thin and into one particular category of life. And they're living through personal insecurities and dissatisfaction. They're craving some sort of need for an enemy.

1:39:15And they just they find it. They identify with it. And you have this bizarre behavior, you know, besides that going on. And it just leads to this. They found this enemy, Charlie Kirk. What can we do? Oh, that's what my father or grandfather has this gun somewhere. And he has to and he gets access to it and gets up on a roof. You know, no doubt copying from a year before. Was it a year before? Yeah, I believe so. With the Trump assassination, the anniversary being this weekend, of course. And just finally, hey, that guy could almost get away with it. Let me try this thing, too. So there's nothing original with these these folks usually in their modus operandi.

1:39:52Let me ask you a follow up on this guy on Hoffer, on Hoffer and the concept of a fanatic. Is there something about like you're sacrificing yourself in Hoffer, you know, like because he's like, oh, I'll either be dead or heading for a lengthy prison sentence, you know, but I had to do it. suddenly he's got a mission. Suddenly he goes from being this absolute loser with a disappointment, I'm sure, to his parents, given the grades and all that, to this like know nothing with a trans furry. He's calling himself they, them. They're immersed in this drug, nonstop discord gaming culture. Like, is this the the resurrection, you know, in his mind of like himself as some sort of hero.

1:40:40Yeah, the phoenix. Yeah, and Hoffer makes it very clear they're craving for self-sacrifice. By sacrificing themselves for an impossible cause, they mask their own perceived failures and shortcomings. And I just quoted Eric Hoffer there. And that really, I think very well from everything we know publicly, that would define our shooter in this particular case and throwing his buddy Lance too. So, I mean, it's, again, this is part human nature, part of how we're all, evolved over the years and the millennia. But Hoffer put it in writing, Unabomber liked quoting him. And he was, of course, a fanatic in some ways, as Hoffer pointed out.

1:41:20And he felt that was important enough to cite. These guys probably never, well, they may have heard of Eric Hoffer. I don't know. They were studying stoicism, I understand, in the last year or so before the shooting and getting into some of these ideologies down the line. So who knows how they came across us some of these concepts. Let me ask you, in the minute we have left, Fitz, forgive me for interrupting, I'm just short on time. If you had a parent who fell in with a kid like this Twiggs, who was already vulnerable potentially on the autism spectrum, maybe you'd seen signs of psychopathy in him earlier.

1:41:54We don't know the full story of Robinson's background. Would you intervene and say, no, hard no, you're not living with this person? We're not allowing this? Well, I'll tell you what I wouldn't do. I wouldn't pay their rent. I mean, they're over 18. I guess you couldn't stop them from living with someone else. But I wouldn't pay their frigging rent, Megan, because it just, and I understand that's what both parents were doing, or I think at least Lance's parents were, and that was certainly helping out the others. So I would do everything in my powers to dissuade them. If there were any guns I knew of in my life or in my extended family's life, I'd also make sure they're locked up and no way anyone would have access to those.

1:42:35So yeah, as a parent looking back, I have so many friends who are parents I am, and there's just no way a kid I know could get this screwed up without a lot of influences from there. I'm sure the parents have many regrets. Fitz, thank you. You're welcome. We continue. You're welcome. Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

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