Nancy Guthrie and Daughter's Homes Searched Again, Plus NEW Ransom Details, with Brian Entin, Fitzgerald, Ayers, and O'Shea | Ep. 1248

25:32Let's face it. A million dollars is not much for Savannah Guthrie. That's she can lose that easily and not really even feel it. So like if that were the initial demand, I think they would have just paid it. They would have just paid it on Thursday. 4 million is a different, that's a different, I mean, that's a lot more. Yeah. And I'm confident in my reporting, the person who I spoke to saw the note himself. So I'm sure it was 4 million and 6 million. And I can't remember if I talked to you about this last time, but the other thing that was in the first note that was so alarming to the FBI, there's two things.

26:07One, the location of the Apple Watch inside Nancy's room was very, very specific. And the other thing is they specifically referenced a damaged smashed floodlight in the backyard, which has since been removed up on the back of Nancy's house, which is smashed. So those two things were spot on in the first note, which appears to be why they've been taking all of this so seriously. But Brian, don't you think like, okay, so the floodlight is visible from the outside. You know, people were crawling all over the property and especially, you know, Monday, I think the first notes came Tuesday. So you would have just had to see it on sometimes Sunday or Monday or prior to that, you know, potentially you could have seen a prior to that.

26:51If you were a contractor taking advantage of the family's pain here and you'd been inside the house, you might know about that floodlight and you might know where she keeps or Apple Watch at night. The thing that I can't get past is if I stole somebody and I needed to give proof of life so that I could get millions of dollars, I would ask that person questions that only that person would know the answers to. And I would put that information in my note, Like information above all would be proof of life, not where like who would say where she keeps the Apple watch or that a floodlight had been damaged as their aha.

27:35It is I I've got your person proof. Right. Yeah, it's a good point. You think there'd be something more specific, you know, and they and initially, you know, they really wanted to open these lines of communication. But you'd imagine if there really is a kidnapper, they would be hesitant to do that because, you know, the FBI is trying to track. And I don't know if you knew this, Megan, but we found out through the news director of KOLD, which is where both notes went, that it wasn't submitted through like an email. It came through a news tips form that you fill out on the website of, you know what I mean?

28:08Like you can fill out your name, subject. Both notes or just the second one? Both notes that went to KOLD at least. I don't know if it's the same with TMZ. So I think that makes it harder to track. And they used, you know, a scrambler for the IP address because it was different IP addresses both times. So, you know, I don't know that you can attach a picture that way. I know. And I don't even think you need a picture, though. Like if somebody had a relative of yours or anybody or mine or anybody listening, we all know certain things they could ask the relative. Like if anybody who I know very well, a family member needed to prove through a kidnapper that it was them, that they were with the kidnapper, they absolutely could do it with information, with references, you know, with like family jokes.

28:59Like it would be easy. And so just the fact that this person has gone with something so weird, like an outside floodlight and the location of an apple, what is that? That proves to me you've been to the house and it looks like you've been in the house. But that think of the number of contractors an 84 year old has going through her home. You can do very little as an 84 year old. She probably has somebody help her change her light bulbs. She definitely has somebody change her air filters. Her air conditioner goes on the fritz. Somebody comes in that the person who may have changed the roof recently, as the neighbor observed.

29:33It's like the list is so long. But now we're talking about somebody who's taking advantage of the family's pain. and not necessarily the person who's causing it. Or is all this just a sideshow, Megan? I mean, I've been thinking about this all weekend. You know, is all of this just something that the FBI has to look into and that Savannah and her family have to respond to because you put yourself in their shoes, you know, just in case, how could you not? What if in the 1 % chance it is true, you know, you want to respond, you want to try. But is there a whole nother side of this investigation happening that, like you mentioned at the beginning, we just don't know about.

30:10I mean, them coming here to the house, you know, at nine o 'clock at night on a Saturday out of nowhere. The only thing that I'm skeptical about that though is that it was these three sheriff's deputies who were just kind of like, I don't know. I mean, I saw the raid at Nancy's house. I shouldn't say raid, but I saw when the FBI team showed up, it was like insane. I mean, it was a full-on FBI. They're in their special outfits. They're in the fancy vans and the evidence unit and the tape goes up and it felt so organized. here on Saturday night, it was just these three deputies. I mean, I hate to say that, but their cars were a little beat up and they get out and they kind of wobble in.

30:47Like if this was so serious here, why didn't the FBI come here? Like there's just, there's a lot I can't figure out. And all we know, so like from what you could tell from outside was that they were taking pictures on the inside, right? Could you tell whether they were spraying chemicals or, you know anything like that inside no no and i've heard people say you know could it be luminol you know they they do that at night sometimes to um you know so that they can use a black light and see if there's blood inside that could be one of the reasons they came at night or maybe like you said they may have just gotten some piece of information and they said let's go out there or or like what feels like the rest of this investigation maybe they're just realizing oh god we forgot to do this how do how have we not done this yet let's let we got to go out and get pictures of the inside of the house just in case, just like they didn't tow Nancy's car until Friday night, which it's like, why wouldn't they have done that earlier in the week?

31:38And I mentioned that former homicide detective I spoke to, he's in shock. He's like, how was all of this stuff not done within the first 48 hours? Why are they going back and doing all these things days later? And you mentioned the sheriff at the basketball game. You know, that was around the time Savannah released this second video. So he's at the basketball game. It's the same time, Megan. he's at the basketball game as you see savannah holding her siblings hands um you know maybe saying that they think nancy's dead like come on dude like what are you doing you know understand the optics we had two points i wanted to make number one the other possibility at the the search in annie's home which was by consent according to nbc and only had the three guys in the beat up car show up to take pictures is that that could be by design because right now Now the family is giving them consent.

32:27The family's working with them. The sheriff said that earlier last week. They're cooperating and we want that to continue. Maybe it's we cannot show up FBI style and do this because we do not wish to telegraph to anybody in the family that they are anything other than victims in our eyes. And we don't we certainly don't want to go in guns blazing with the full FBI treatment and telegraph that we think this may be a crime scene. So we're going to keep it on the down low. We're going to keep it casual. so that they're not regretting giving us the consent. It's a possibility. Don't know, just speculating.

33:02Secondly, on the delays and that your former law enforcement guy out of Pima County and his shock, Brian, that's all I could think when they were out looking in the, you know, whether it's a water tank, whatever they were looking at that with the manhole cover and the grid search renewing again and searching again in Nancy's home is now, Like now you're going to do that now. So you did one day of searching. They searched that last Sunday, a week ago into Monday. And by Monday afternoon, they had called off the search. The sheriff used that term saying maybe we'll resume it. But they had called it off.

33:39And I don't want to be too graphic. But like this is an area riddled with wildlife. Like if they're looking for a dead body. It's been a long time. Like this was a long time to wait to get really aggressive about searching for human remains. Yeah, I wonder, look, we don't know. Like you mentioned Idaho, we found out later they knew a lot behind the scenes with Kohlberger that we didn't know. And I was being hard on them every single day. And then I went back and I said, oh my gosh, I was wrong. They were really, you know, working hard behind the scenes. But is it possible here, this is like almost cold right now?

34:15Like, are they sitting in a room somewhere saying, what else can we do? Like, we know we're hitting so many dead ends. Oh, did we check the septic tank? Oh, did we check the water tank? Oh, let's go photo. You know what I mean? Like, I think that's a possibility too. I really do. They could just be in a room like, what box have we not checked because we're screwed right now? We're hitting dead ends. But it does make you wonder whether they've seen something via an email, a cell phone record or something to suggest that Nancy wasn't kidnapped, that she was killed? I think there was something in the second note.

34:52I do. I think the message, the reason they're being so careful not to call it a ransom note, and it was a message. I think there was something in that note that led Savannah to be very specific in her wording there. so do you think brian then that that i mean like your your gut i know you don't know but do you think that the the notes are coming from the actual perpetrator i mean that's i wish i knew that's the big question i'm still 50 everyone keeps asking me like my mom's texting me every morning i'm still 50 50 like on whether this is really a kidnapping like i go back and forth because so much of it doesn't make sense.

35:34But would they put Savannah through this? Would they be making, I mean, just the misery that she has to go through when she makes these videos and you know that they've got to be treating her with kid gloves and feel terrible for her. Would they be putting her through that if it wasn't legitimate, if they didn't believe it was a possibility? Yeah, law enforcement, I mean. But at the same time, if there is someone else involved and you go back to Banfield's reporting, and I don't have any of that reporting, But if it is some kind of inside job or someone who knows the family, are they also treating it with kid gloves and saying, we got to check every box here.

36:09We're not rushing into this because this is Savannah Guthrie and we're about to like humiliate this person. I mean, you know what I mean? I mean, Matt, you would feel suddenly it's someone in your orbit that is responsible. So I do think because it's her, they're being very, very careful. Brian Enten, you've been doing great work. Highly recommend Brian's show. just Google it in the podcast, Brian Enten, E-N-T-I-N, and you'll find it, or YouTube. I watch them both ways, and I love all your content, my friend. Thank you for being on. Thanks, Megan. Coming up, we dig into the case further with some law enforcement experts and more, and I have a lot of questions that I want answered, a lot, and we're going to get into them next.

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37:54as we've been reporting it is very difficult to obtain information from authorities in this case who are still claiming there is not even a person of interest but one thing that's clear is the guthrie family believes there is at least a chance the ransom notes are from nancy's captor or captors there's no other explanation for the three instagram videos from savannah's account where the siblings ask for further communication about how to get their mother home. To help us analyze all this, we wanted to bring in a seasoned hostage negotiator. And it's hard to find someone with more experience than our next guest.

38:28Commander Daniel O'Shea is a retired Navy SEAL who served as the coordinator of the hostage working group for the U.S. Embassy in Iraq from 2004 to 2006. O'Shea managed more than 400 hostage incidents in his time in Iraq. and by the time he left, kidnappings had dropped to the single digits. Dan, welcome to the show. It's my pleasure and honor to be here, Megan. Okay, so just we're going to play it one more time, the latest video, and get your take on what, if anything, you think has changed here. Here it is. This is released on Saturday night. We received your message and we understand. And we beg you now to return our mother to us so that we can celebrate with her.

39:15This is the only way we will have peace. This is very valuable to us. And we will pay. What do you make of it, Dan? It's heartbreaking. You know, I saw hundreds of these pleas from families from all over the world to try and bring their loved one home that was taken hostage by the likes of Al-Qaeda. and other jihadist groups in Iraq. So it's troubling because it's the pain in anguish of not knowing. And, you know, it brings back a lot of flashback of a lot of memories. But you can never give up hope. We had cases where there was a deadline set. Presumably, we know this group harmed, you know, Ms.

39:59Guthrie in the initial abduction because there was blood left at the scene. And we only know what blood was left outside. We don't know anything about what's been done forensically inside the house. So that's my biggest concern is that the propensity for violence from the get-go is why everyone should be very concerned. And not so much because of the deadline, but because the group doing this has already shown they're willing to be violent with an 84-year-old woman, grandmother as well. So, I mean, the big one of the big questions here is, are the people torturing the family with these notes the same people that have or hurt Nancy Guthrie eight and a half days ago?

40:39I was saying to Brian Enten in the first segment, Dan, I just have a really hard time believing the people writing these notes were involved in Nancy's kidnapping or whatever happened to her. because I was saying that if I had Nancy Guthrie, if I went to the trouble to kidnap somebody and then wanted to prove to somebody that I had her, I would not be referencing some damaged floodlight or where her Apple Watch was in her home. That's bullshit. That's the kind of stuff you manage to see through a window. And to me, it sounds like you're trying to sound like you know more than you do. If you've got Nancy, you can ask her anything, anything that would prove to her three children who know her better than anybody that you actually have her you don't have to do a picture you don't need a video you just need her to tell you things only the children and the mother would remember from their childhoods a hundred percent and that's i i you're not you're you're not a h and r a k and r background or hostage negotiator but i had that suspicion what do we from almost day one when the first ransom note came out first off they sent the ransom note to tmz a tabloid network and then the local news media all right that's not how pain our kidnap for ransom works if kidnapping is a business around the world and the groups that do the kidnapping they have the prize they grab the prize and they want to keep that prize protected and they want to demonstrate to the prospective buyer payer that we have who you're looking for let's start the negotiation and you come out with a large number that four million initial to six million, the latest ransom man, that's not outside the norm range for an American because that's, you know, this is a big business.

42:22And because obviously Savannah, Savannah Gunther, you know, big news network, morning show host, she's going to have the resources to probably come up with that kind of money. And that's what they're counting on. But then you've got to negotiate in good faith. And from no way, shape or form has the group that is claiming to hold her been operating in good faith. And the fact that they haven't been able to provide a substantive proof of life or even trying to submit some AI version of it, which could have been, you know, suspect that they're trying to do this. But I am suspect that the group that has her, the group that took her response for abduction is the group that is sending these messages.

42:58They may be related, but I really think this is part of the show and drama to drive up this news media story. And why is that happening? Let's go to the underlying motives. And the motives may not be money. And I don't think it's money they want here. I think they want the news media attention, focus on this case and maybe get some other news stories off off the net and then go why did they target you know savannah gunthry and you have to look at well she's not a controversial figure like yourself or say a can of someone where you have people on the left or right i mean just being honest um that you've got enemies you've got people that don't like you but you know savannah savannah gunthry is you know i i don't watch your morning show but i know who she is and she's like a very nice lady and you know what's the most controversial thing she's ever done maybe some of her interviews in the past.

43:43Well, I mean, she's, no, she's not controversial, but that, that doesn't rule out some freak stalker who just interpreted some reports she did as an attack or as some sort of, you know, that, that element is still alive and well around her. And we can't rule that out that it's some stranger who's obsessed with her. Oh, of course, of course. But then why are you going after the mother unless you're trying to hurt her? So who has a reason to want to hurt Savannah Guthrie. The list would not be long, but go to some of her interviews. And I'm not the one coming up with this. This conversation I've had with virtually everyone I've talked to, especially offline, when you don't have a two-minute segment on a news channel.

44:24She interviewed a lot of the Epstein victims, in-depth interviews with Virginia Gouffet and some of the other women. And what came out a week before this abduction, days before the Epstein files all over the news. And now what is taken over the news media? And maybe that was done intentionally. I'm not saying that's the case, but there's more to this group. I do not think it's a traditional kidnap for ransom. They're not demonstrating any of the things that are normally associated with people that are in the kidnapping business to make money. And I think it's a media attention, but you have to go into it that there are evil people out there that will do terrible things to one over human beings.

45:02I dealt with that. We had a woman in Iraq. Her name was Margaret Asan. She was the director of Care International. She was a 5 '1", 180-pound Irish woman who'd lived in Iraq for 20-plus years and married a local. She lived the fourth period of Islam, which is Zarkat. She gave alms to the poor. She fed the poor. There we go. A beloved woman. That did not protect her. She was murdered by her chapters. And I'm one of the few Americans who sadly had to watch that execution video. And it was very troubling, very sad. So there's evil in the world. And no matter how good you are, that doesn't protect you from someone that wants to hurt you.

45:43So if you were advising this family at this point, and we are told that the second note did not contain proof of life, that they're revealing very little about it, but we are told it did not contain proof of life. And we know the first letter said they had Nancy and claimed she was alive, I believe, but did not have proof of life. You saw the video from the family begging for such proof after they received the first note. Would you advise them to pay? Because right now it's the day of the deadline, 5 p.m. tonight, and TMZ is just reporting that the Bitcoin account allegedly set up to accept these funds is empty as of this time this morning.

46:21It's unclear how long it typically takes accounts to update, they write, but as of now, Now, the confirmed balance in the publicly viewable account stands at zero with no transactions recorded. So at least as of almost 1 p.m. Eastern time, the family has not made any deposits into the Bitcoin account. How would you advise them? Well, this is just very harsh. And, you know, it's only come from experience because I think that someone evil enough to hurt an 84 year old woman makes me lean. OK, my initial thoughts, again, a week ago was a cartel involved in this because the close proximity to the Arizona.

46:55the Mexican border. The fact that I know the cartels have no problem with kidnapping. Beyond al-Qaeda, they're probably the biggest kidnapping ring out there. Formerly, the FARC had that title. So was that a connection to the cartels? Because they have a propensity to violence. They have kidnapped young social media influencers in Mexico and murdered them. So they're not above the thought. Again, I always started with the notion, especially when I would talk to the ambassadors from these countries where they had hostias. I would always be upfront with them and say, sir, you have to begin with the presumption that your citizens that have been kidnapped by this group claiming to be affiliated with al-Qaeda or whoever, that they're not coming home.

47:37You have to start with that presumption. And the fact that this group has not shown proof of life, and I really think the media is what they're going for. So we had deadlines come and go with al-Qaeda. Jill Carroll, the young Christian science reporter, 28 year old girl, American girl she had deadlines come and go and she was ended up brought home after 83 days of captivity because of pressure put on by special forces you know, the unit that went out every night to hunt for her and she was brought home safely because the unit the kidnapping ring finally said, threw their hands up and said maybe if we give her up, these bad dudes will stop coming after us and that's ultimately what happened so the family, I would strongly recommend to not pay the ransom, not pay any of it, because I don't think I think that'd be money going into the wind for nothing, because I don't trust there was no trust and good faith between this group and the family.

48:35And they've shown none of it. And they're just torturing Savannah and her family. And I would be blunt enough to speak to the family that let's start with the presumption that your mother did not survive the initial the initial abduction. And this may have been a home invasion that went wrong. May have been a stalker, as you said, to do the same. But I would recommend strongly against paying the ransom today by that deadline. What an agonizing decision to have to make at their most vulnerable and weakest. Of course, you'd be at your weakest right now. You're not at your strongest mentally or emotionally in the wake of this tragedy.

49:12It's awful. Dan, And thank you for your expertise and for your service, too. Thank you. Up next, Jim Fitzgerald is back along with Chad Ayers and a lot to go over with them. Don't miss it. Let's be honest. America can still be a dangerous place and you cannot afford to wait for help. Sure, you could use a firearm. But in today's America, defending yourself with deadly force could have legal consequences. According to FBI data, 99.9 % of all altercations do not require lethal force. And that's exactly why so many are turning to Burna. Burna is proudly American, hand-assembled in Fort Wayne, Indiana.

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50:36Back with me again this week to discuss the latest on the Nancy Guthrie case, former SWAT team leader Chad Ayers and former FBI supervisory special agent Jim Fitzgerald, co-host of the Cold Red podcast. Welcome back, gentlemen. Let's start with what President Trump said on Air Force One on Friday. Here it is. President promised Savannah Guthrie's family the full support of federal law enforcement. FBI is now. I'll give you a little statement. I think we're doing very well On that regard, you're probably surprised to hear that. I think we're doing very well. Very well meeting. We have some clues, I think, that are very strong.

51:16And I think we could have some answers coming up fairly soon. Is this a nationwide search? Is this a search going to Mexico? I'm not talking about a search. I'm talking about a solution. We have some things, I think, that will maybe come out reasonably soon from DOJ or FBI or whoever that could be definitive. A lot has taken place in the last couple of hours. A lot of things have happened with regard to that horrible situation in the last couple of hours. Okay, a lot in there. We're doing very well. We have clues that are very strong. We could have answers very soon. I'm not talking about a search.

52:04I'm talking about a solution. We have things that may come out that could be definitive. Is there a suspect? And he quickly says, yeah, it's almost as an aside. He says, yeah, things that could be definitive. And then he mentions FBI and DOJ. So let's get right to it, Jim. What does that mean? What did you take away from that? Yeah, I'm racking my brain, Megan, if I've ever worked a case in which the president directly involved himself. And there's some big ones I worked and the DC sniper and anthrax all happening in the DC area, but I don't remember direct and where sort of promises are made.

52:43I won't call them promises. Look, I think President Trump's heart is in the right place. He, the Guthrie family wants to hear something positive, but you got to be careful with creating too high of expectations. And I guess that was Friday from what you said. So we're looking at now 72 hours since he made that statement. There may be some investigators not happy he made that statement, but, you know, he said it was definitive or things definitive could happen. Yet he was sort of vague at the same time. So is he sometimes investigators, you can actually plan sort of leaks, if you will, to sort of force the hand of of a bad guy, whoever they are.

53:26I mean, usually it's someone holding someone in custody. Someone's presently in danger. I can't imagine someone reaching out to the president. Hey, could you drop these lines for us? But no doubt he's in touch with Kash Patel and Bondi. They're in touch with the people on the in the in the field on the street there. And they're and he's echoing something. He wants to give the nation something positive to think about. And I'm not saying he's lying. He's not at all. There may be things that have been developing, but it's a slow burn here. And everyone wants to make everything right. I don't think President Trump was lying at all.

53:59I think President Trump was telling the truth. I think President Trump was excited that he thought we were about to have a breakthrough on this case. And I don't think his people would have told him that if it weren't true. And he's the one who mentioned FBI and DOJ. So it could have been either one or both. You know, it could have been. Obviously, we know the FBI is there on the ground and co-hosted the presser that happened on Thursday. But they answered to the DOJ. They're all their work. if it comes to something would ultimately be coming to something for the DOJ to potentially do something about it.

54:31So they could be equally informed. So who knows? But I don't think for one second, Chad, that President Trump would have said that if he hadn't been briefed in a way that was promising and that he was feeling like we're getting there. The thing that I found most interesting was if I were Savannah Guthrie and I heard that I would pick up the phone in a second and call him. He called her last week to tell her whatever you need. And I'd say, what do you have? and then President Trump's in a tough spot because maybe he's not ready to reveal that yet, no matter who it is. And now you're talking to the victim of the crime.

55:03I don't know. But what did you glean from it, Chad? You know, Megan, I agree absolutely with what Jim just said. I will say this. Look, I am a huge supporter of our president. I'm a huge supporter of Kash Patel and what the attorney general has been doing. But I've got to, you know, we do know that President Trump loves to talk to the media. He loves to speak and throw things out there. But I agree with what Jim said. I agree with what you said. He is in constant contact. This is such a high profile case. He is in constant contact with Kash Patel and the boots on the ground. The American people are heavily invested in this case right now.

55:40So I think that possibly, you know, he had information coming in. He says in the future, we're, you know, something real soon we're going to hear. I don't know. I think we have to sit back and wait, but he did, you know, President Trump loves to kind of tease people. Could have answers very soon. Correct. Could have answers very soon. Not talking about a search, talking about a solution. And by the way, remember, Chad, how we found out that they had arrested the guy they said did the pipe bombing. He was on Fox and Friends for a different hit, a hit about something else. And he was like, hey, by the way, we caught the pipe.

56:24It was like, what? The man has a way about how he does things. And that's what makes him who he is. Megan, can I add here, there is a term both you and Chad are probably familiar with it called tickle the wire. And when you're working at wiretap at Title III, as we call it in the feds, there's a way that you're listening. And, of course, you have to minimize at certain times that they're talking about, you know, the wives cookie recipes or something as opposed to crime. So what the agents would do, though, and what I was part of is you do something. You have a police car go by the suspect's house.

57:00They're involved in something. It's not necessarily a kidnapping like this, but they're involved in some kind of bad deeds. And you have that where you have, you know, someone knock on the door kind of suspiciously or a letter goes to the house. And then you're waiting to see what they say on the phone when this event happens that you, the investigator, stage. And the nickname for it is Tickle the Wire. Well, OK, do we have a version of that in which the president is serving as the Tickle the Wire force? Because I will tell you something. He's the tickler. He's the tickler. I don't know if he's been called that before.

57:30But I'll tell you what, whoever is involved in this, again, we go back to for revenge, for profit. Now they're conflated somehow. We're completely separate. Whoever was involved in doing this, one, probably more people who are involved, they may have altered their behavior Friday morning and did something. And if maybe the investigators on the ground, the boots on the ground, as Chad said, they didn't plan for President Trump to make this statement. But if nothing else, they should have taken advantage of it. And let's see who's moving. Who is someone even very low on the suspect list we have?

58:04Who's made a quick call if we're watching them or monitor their phones? Who's called someone else? And maybe, hey, did you hear what the president said? In whatever language, potentially. And that could be a clue that the investigators weren't even necessarily looking for or that, you know, initiated themselves. But then something happened afterwards. So it's a known tactic in law enforcement, completely legal. this tickle the wire concept. Usually the wire, of course, is the wire tap of a phone line, cell phone landlines, whatever. Also emails. And that could something that could then happen.

58:39The other thing I have to say is I was excited when I heard that because I thought, okay, they've got somebody. They think they know who did it. But then it occurred to me, having listened to it now many times, he could have been talking about the ransom letter writer it could be not the suspect in the kidnapping or the harming of Nancy Guthrie. It could be they've got the person who's writing the notes. Let's listen to it one more time and just think, tell me what you think about that possibility, because solving that is important, but it might not lead us to the kidnapper. It might be two totally different people.

59:17So just listen to Trump again. You promised Savannah Guthrie's family the full support of federal law enforcement. I'll give you a little statement. I think we're doing very well on that regard. You're probably surprised to hear that. I think we're doing very well. Very well, meaning we have some clues, I think, that are very strong. And I think we could have some answers coming up fairly soon. Is this a nationwide search? Is this a search going to Mexico? I'm not talking about a search. I'm talking about a solution. We have some things I think that will maybe come out reasonably soon. from DOJ or FBI or whoever that could be definitive.

1:00:02A lot has taken place in the last couple of hours. A lot of things have happened with regard to that horrible situation in the last couple of hours. Right. So, Chad, I don't know. It could be either one. Megan, let's briefly breach this topic with Jim. The word solution, right? It's not we have a solution. Hear me out for a second. NBC, right? Obviously, Savannah is one of the highest paid news personalities there is for NBC. I looked that up this morning. Last week was the opening ceremonies. NBC is hosting opening ceremonies in the Olympics. They also were the ones that hosted Super Bowl last night.

1:00:50All these viewerships. So if this is a solution, could this again, we have talked about this, but could this be some type of international crime group that's trying to and I'm not saying that NBC is involved at all. I want to make sure that is clear. Could this be some type of international crime group that is trying to disrupt everything that's going on? I mean, there's a totally different angle on this, you know, that could be more than just the son-in-law or just a random maintenance worker. Again, everything's out on the table. You know, there's nothing that's not on the table right now. Chad, did you see the one report saying that reportedly the money that was requested in ransom note number one said, now we're being told,$4 million if you pay by Thursday,$6 million if you pay by Monday, USD in U.S.

1:01:50dollars? Which has some saying, that doesn't sound like an American. Like when we communicate money figures to one another, we don't say USD. No. We just say you put the dollar sign and then you put the number, the numeral, and then you put million or a thousand or whatever your unit of money is. So that that could be some small support for this being international and President Trump possibly, you know, casting a very wide, wide web and getting getting some sort of a ring. And this because I look at it would the thing about that that's attractive is those are the ones who do kidnappings. Sure.

1:02:27You know, it's not an American thing from all of our experts. It's just not something that Americans do. But it is something that they do in Latin America. 100%. And I think that's why nothing's off the table. And, you know, he didn't first say that we could hear something from the Pima County Sheriff's Office. He says we could hear something soon coming from the DOJ or the FBI. Well, and let's face it, what are the there is zero chance that that Pima County sheriff is calling President Trump with updates. Zero. Like there's just no way that's what's happening. Trump gets his information from his cabinet secretaries and his own chiefs, people like Cash, people like Pam.

1:03:07Those those would be the ones who would have the information, though. So I really I am told that the FBI is in more of a helping role in this case and that it is the Pima County sheriff who is running herd on this. As I say that this just broke via NBC. And again, you really have to take the NBC News information seriously here, because trust me when I tell you they would not want to get out ahead on anything if it hadn't been like blessed by Savannah or if they thought it was going to do anything to compromise the investigation. They report the FBI said it has deployed additional intelligence and agent personnel from its Phoenix office and other FBI field offices now to assist in the investigation.

1:03:47The agency is also staffing a 24 hour command post with agents who investigate incoming leads and tips. Members of the Cellular Analysis Survey Team or CAST are assisting and continue to collect and process digital data as detectives review and analyze information from various sources, including banks and social media. All right, Jim, I have a question for you about that last piece, the cellular analysis survey team. So cell phones are everything. They know everything about us, these devices. They know where we've been. They know who we've talked to. They know what we thought. But and it did occur to me, since we spent time on the brother-in-law last week, that if you proceed under the theory that the brother-in-law may have been behind this and also is sending the ransom notes, that would be near impossible.

1:04:39Like the heat on that guy right now and all last week is at a fire level. So there's no way he's sneaking off to the library to fire off these forms on the local news stations. And by the way, we're told TMZ also has one of those, like a tip line where you can go and maybe that's why the person chose TMZ, not because they watch TMZ. But it also has one of those forms where you can put on, oh, here's a tip, TMZ. It's Megyn Kelly. Here's my address or my phone number. And my tip is whatever. so there's zero chance this guy was doing that last week now he might have had an accomplice if he was behind this and of course then there's the other theory we've been actively working on which is the two are unrelated whoever took her or hurt her has nothing to do with these notes it's an opportunist as you put it Jim but do you agree with my premise that if we're if we're pursuing the line of the brother or any one of the family there is zero chance that person was in a position to send ransom notes last week?

1:05:40Megan, as we discussed a few times last week, whenever a profiler and a behaviorist looks at a crime, series of crimes, you look at pre-offense behavior, of course, the crime itself, post-offense behavior. It's one thing trying to determine what an unknown subject, unsub, as we said in the Bureau, is doing post-offense behavior, changing their disguise, leaving the scene, sometimes injecting themselves into a crime a crime scene, calling in false tips or certainly following the media. But if you have someone who is within those concentric circles, I'm not going to call the brother Mo a suspect, but he is someone, of course, that is being looked at.

1:06:15It would be, you said, zero chance. I would say virtually impossible, maybe less than zero, that he's out there putting these ransom demand email communications, whatever they are, multiple ones now in that regard. There's no way he's doing that. Look, whoever this may be, and it was a revenge thing. Well, it was for profit to begin with. Maybe they're doing that now. It was a revenge thing. And as I said last week, laying out all the options, perhaps it's someone, well, let me cover up my tracks by doing this. I don't really want the money, but let's let the FBI and the sheriff's department chase after these people.

1:06:52So there are multiple avenues here. And all we would have needed was the kidnap note, like other kidnappings that we discussed already this week from Norway to Frank Sinatra Jr. and the Bronx and whatever. Just something that we proved that was proven that the kidnappers are the same people who abducted Mrs. Guthrie. We just don't have that so far. And and for the brother, he's I don't brother in law, whatever we want to call him, Tommaso. He has to you know, he has to be in the suspect. cool. Everyone does in that close concentric circle, but I would find it. He is, he's the equivalent of a criminal mastermind and Houdini.

1:07:30If he can, in fact, you know, send off these emails with no one else even knowing that, uh, in law enforcement, not to mention his family. Go ahead, Chad. Megan, you obviously have, uh, you have more of a personal relationship. You obviously know Savannah at better than any, well, you have a different type of relationship with her we do. I've spent a lot of time with her, personal and professional. Sure. It would be very hard. We know that the Bureau and the Sheriff's Office has likely separated these parties to conduct their interviews with all family members. I find it very hard with the last video that was released and them holding hands and all this thing.

1:08:08We've got her brother who was a fighter pilot. I would find it very hard to think that two people, if they had any inclination that their sister and brother-in-law were involved in this case, that they would be able to put on some bullshit face, you know, and act like nothing's wrong. And we're, you know, a close family. And that if they really believe that the in-laws... Let me ask you this, Chad, I agree. I don't think Savannah suspects her sister at all. And I haven't heard anybody report anything about the sister being involved in this in any way other than she's married to the brother-in-law and that report we know of originating with Ashley Banfield.

1:08:46So yes, I agree with you. But there's been a lot of activity at the sisters' home, at Annie's home. Now, there was a search earlier this week. Then there was a search Saturday night that NBC News, again, was sure to report this morning was by consent, meaning Annie and presumably Tomas, the homeowners, gave consent. But we also haven't seen Tomas. And so I don't want to presume without knowing that he's still in good standing with the family. We have no idea whether he is like, it is a possibility that even Andy is saying, oh my God, why do they keep searching our house? You know, is it possible that Tomas was involved?

1:09:23I doubt it. I don't like, I'm just saying the fact that they're sitting there holding hands. I agree. There is no chance Savannah suspects her sister of anything, nor has anybody been able to accuse her sister of anything. However, it doesn't really tell us anything about the brother-in-law chat. Yeah. It just, it would be very confusing and it would be raise a lot of eyebrows if all of a sudden Tomas was involved all this Bitcoin gets delivered or cryptocurrency whatever it is gets to him and all of a sudden you know next year there's a lot of family vacations to Turks and Caicos and a new Lambo sitting that's how they catch you right like you're done you're done they can't trace the Bitcoin but eventually when you get the Bitcoin you have to you have to cash it in at some point you want to enjoy it and that and that's how they get you because they have like a small circle of suspects.

1:10:12And, you know, you may think you can outweigh the feds, but they can outweigh you. And, you know, five years from now, you suddenly have$6 million you didn't have. And, you know, you have some working class job, you're in trouble. But here's the thing, Jim. They keep going back to Annie's and Tomas' home. And they went back at night. And yes, it was low key. It was three guys and beat up cars. it wasn't the full force of the FBI with the gloves and the, you know, the command, you know, the way the FBI can burst in. I know how the FBI can burst in because my neighbor in my old building got the FBI treatment at 5 a.m.

1:10:52one day when they arrested him for allegedly being a mini Madoff. And then I had the misfortune of riding the elevator up with him when he bailed out. And I had heard it was all over the news. We were in the elevator together and I didn't know what to say to him. So he's sitting there with his lawyer going back up to his apartment and I'm sitting there going back up to my apartment and I came up with the following. Don't let the bastards get you down. What am I saying? I don't know whether it was you who said that. I'm kidding. I wasn't there. It was so, no, it's very awkward. I'm like, I'm not good in these situations.

1:11:25I don't find the right words. Okay. But my point is simply, um, we, we don't know why they keep going back to Annie and Tomas's house. And this is where I I've been all weekend, I've been wanting to ask you guys about this because I really thought we made some progress on Friday when we really were analyzing the timeline that had been given the day before. Came up with, it was a 40 minute, 41 minute time stint that we think the perpetrator was in the house. If you go from 147, when they disconnected the Nest cameras to 228, when her pacemaker stopped communicating with the iPhone that was in her house, 41 minutes.

1:12:00And we spent a lot of time on how, why does it take 41 minutes to cat to kidnap an 84 year old woman? And is it possible that they, that they killed her, that, that, that that's what happened in that 41 minute stint. But then we got to the point where we just did not think that could be the case because the pacemaker, the pacemaker would have shown the cardiac event ending her life if it happened prior to 2.28 AM. So that pacemaker is really everything. But then over the weekend, I got to thinking, how much do we really know about the pacemaker? Like, is it possible, guys, that because like all we know is that she got far enough away from the iPhone that it stopped recording events.

1:12:41But like, is it possible the police know there there was something catastrophic that happened on that pacemaker prior to 228? They haven't told us anything about her heart or anything about the pacemaker, except that it disconnected from the iPhone at 228 a.m. Now, they then launched this big thing where they said, we think she's still alive. And so they could be lying to us. But is it because what my takeaway watching all these searches was they think she might have been killed at Annie's house. That's one of the possibilities. Why are they going over there for three hours, taking pictures in the night, lighting it up with something?

1:13:21I don't know. Again, this is second time back there when we have been told the crime scene is that is at Nancy's house. So they keep going back to Annie's house where she had dinner that night. And so what is the actual proof that the mother was delivered back to her home at 947 with the garage door closing two minutes later that night? Like, what is the proof that that actually was Nancy Guthrie getting delivered back into her garage? And what is the proof that there was nothing on the pacemaker, you know, from any point in the evening up to 228 a.m.? Yeah, proving a negative is always a tough task for in any situation, much less criminal investigation.

1:14:05And I guess you're right. I mean, especially with the way the sheriff changed his his his explanation of we know she was dropped off at whatever it was, 947. And then we know, oh, the family said they dropped her off at this time. And we're only going on that eyewitness account from the family members, one or more. Again, it's not clear, purposely probably so, but maybe on the part of even the family without speculating there. But there's a lot of questions. The pacemaker part and the irregular activity that would show, I mean, they do show. And I've worked cases in recent past more as a consultant than in the FBI, especially people with these these Apple watches that are hooked up to it.

1:14:56You know, same principle. You can actually see when a person dies and it makes a medical examiner's job much easier than just looking at undigested food and issues like that. And it certainly can add to it. So why, though, would the fact that they think she died at one house or the other, Megan, and the family is making these pleas to bring her back? It's just it's just it's just so confusing on my part in that regard. I agree. So this is this is where I went. If you trust in the pacemaker and you trust in the fact that the police aren't going to be doing this wild goose chase, knowing that the pacemaker showed she died, you know, earlier in the evening, if they think she died, you know, at eight thirty or nine o 'clock.

1:15:36Then that would explain the search at Annie's house perfectly. Right. Because she was at Annie's house at that time. But that's not what they're saying. They're saying she went back home. They're they are engaging in the goose chase. So presumably it's not wild. And they do believe she was alive when she left the house at 228 a.m. So what are they doing at Annie's house? Why are they back at Annie's and Tomas's for three hours taking pictures, Chad? Is it? checking out their shoes, their boots. Why is it that Nancy Ubered to the house for dinner, but didn't Uber back? They're saying they drove her back because if she Ubered back, we would have a definite interview from whatever that Uber driver was and saying, no, I dropped her off.

1:16:21Like you said, we're solely going off of the family saying we drove her back and we dropped her off because we had the doorbell or the, you know, let's be honest. Nobody's going to remember the exact time they're basing it off this, you know, the garage door activation. Garage door. So is it not odd if mom Ubered over for dinner, but we drove her back? So and then they mentioned that they were there playing games as a family. That tells me that and they said with the grandkids. So we know there's multiple. I would find it very hard that you would commit a homicide in front of your own children of their grandmother if they, in fact, were there.

1:16:57And again, the pacemaker would presumably show that her life ended well prior to 2.28 in the morning. But that suggests to me that then it was things inside the house that may be evidentiary. So what are they? I mean, are they looking for clothing that maybe reflects mud or time in a water tank? Are they looking for boots and whatever mud may be on? Like, what would they be photographing? And they did they did remove some evidence. They came out with bags. So and by the way, they came out wearing blue gloves. Does that tell you anything? I don't know if like the standard FBI is like a clear glove and the FBI and the blue glove is something you deal with chemicals.

1:17:42I have no idea. But they were wearing gloves. So obviously they were trying to protect at least against their fingerprints getting all over this place. And to me, it seems, Jim, that they were treating it as a potential crime scene. everything and every place associated with nancy guthrie right now uh has to be considered a potential crime scene there are multiple crimes whenever this thing is resolved we hope it is obviously inside the house by the front door is a crime scene of mrs guthrie and then the vehicle that was used to transport her we're thinking it was a vehicle of so uh of some sort and then if She was being held somewhere or put into a place in the ground or under undercover.

1:18:25That's yet a third crime scene. Sometimes people go out and move remains. That could be then a fourth crime scene. So they're going to look at. So now we're not looking outside at this point. Now we're back at Annie's house and her husband's house. They feel they have some basic information that they just want to tie some loose ends and they are doing it. And Megan, you brought up on Friday or so when I said they really need to get into some more intense interviews, perhaps polygraphs. Well, they don't want the lawyer up. So that would explain why I get that part of you always have to walk that thin line.

1:18:57You don't want to press it too hard. So they don't lawyer up. It has to be custodial interview within their house. Of course, Miranda doesn't apply there. They're not in custody. So they can do it a lot lower key, some friendly type people. Hey, just a few more questions. We all remember the famous Columbo show. open one more question as he's walking out the door but they would do this the one that would get that's right but they would do this not so much walk out the door but coming in the second time it would be interesting to know whether they're announced uh visits or they're set up in advance there um Megan either we're told it was consensual that's all we know yeah the saturday yeah but whether they whether the whether the knock on the door was agreed to in in the past in you know an hour or two before or something else Megan I like well I don't think they were there.

1:19:40I think I think they've moved to a hotel. Keep going. Whether we do it right now or another segment, I talked to one of the last kid kidnappings ever that occurred in the US. One of the last was that Sydney Riso kidnapping back in 92. And one of the agents now long retired, but he walked me through some of the things about that case. And I think from context perspective, it's very important to look at that case and others and how that and how that played out and because on the fourth day it turns out that mr riso died and yet the husband and wife couple so happens a husband and wife he was former law enforcement um they kept up the uh the facade for like 54 days or so that they were live trying to get the money and the amount they wanted by the way six million dollars today and where NBC may put some of it up even not just Savannah uh they wanted uh those kidnappers wanted and Exxon was willing to pay 18 and a half million dollars back in 1992 for the kidnapping legitimate kidnapping of their executive in which on the first day a letter came in the mail to I think the local police with the Exxon credit card of Mr.

1:20:51Riso in there so uh those kidnappers really played that well his newspaper was delivered every day when people used to get newspapers. But the kidnappers went out that morning and pulled the newspaper down to the bottom of the driveway. Pretty big house, maybe something like where Mrs. Guthrie lived. So he had to walk farther down the driveway to get the newspaper. And that way they could jump out the husband and wife and grab him, throw him in the back of bed. They had to shoot him in the arm to get him under control there. Then he goes and dies four days later because he had a bad heart. But they kept that hidden.

1:21:22He wound up his body found in the Vine Barrens of New Jersey 54 days later, it was a bunch of calls given, but they were communicating the whole time. And the point is, it's a very bad situation with that kidnapping. I hate to use the word legitimate, but it was an actual slash legitimate, real for-profit stranger kidnapping, all those qualifiers we have in there back in 92. And that's how these guys worked. A lot of miscommunications between the kidnappers and Exxon. And, you know, so who knows what's been missing in this particular case, in terms of communications. Technology is a little better now.

1:21:57But that was just one bizarre case. We were talking about in the first hour where, you know, where is the obvious communication about facts only Nancy would know? They they they haven't done it and they haven't done it for a reason. And now the second demand doesn't seem to renew the money demand that was only in the first demand, but the Bitcoin address stands. They haven't changed that. There's been no deposit in it. And Jim, you're the linguist. Listen to the Savannah video with the siblings. It's a shift. I mean, they sounded very grim in their first two videos. Don't get me wrong, but there's definitely a shift tonally.

1:22:41The first one was like, she's got grandchildren. They cover her in kisses. She's spunky. She's fun. You know, mama, we're looking for you. The whole world is looking for you, mommy. And then this, here it is again. We received your message and we understand. We beg you now to return our mother to us so that we can celebrate with her. This is the only way we will have peace. This is very valuable to us and we will pay. A lot in there, Jim. You've got so that we can celebrate with her. Also, now they're begging. We beg you to return our mother. And then this is the only way we will have peace. This is very valuable to us and we will pay.

1:23:34The peace is very valuable to us and we will pay. Return her so that we can celebrate with her. What does that mean to you? Yeah, there's a lot in there. I much prefer to be analyzing the communications from the alleged kidnappers, but we'll stick with this for now because we don't have any access to that. Yeah, it almost sounds like, and Chad knows this very well, we've both been there, when your investigation of some sort of a missing person, it could even be a boat accident or something, it goes from rescue to recovery. and it almost sounds like the family members have morphed into that category uh why they felt they wanted to put a message out because they want to celebrate that not in the way we look at celebration with a birthday party or surprise party saying goodbye perhaps a a celebration of life is very common term nowadays and perhaps that's what they're seeing just tell us where she is.

1:24:35We'll pay you this sum, whatever, if it's six million, as we're hearing USD, which again, makes it even more interesting, as you pointed out earlier. They're willing to do that, but there is a somberness about them. There is like, they know something, perhaps what President Trump was referencing on Friday. Somehow that information came to fruition and it was passed to the family because all he uses the term was solution. And of course I picked up on when President Trump said And it was reasonably soon. What does that mean? Hours, days, weeks. That can be clarified in many different ways. So it does seem to have a different there does seem to be a different persona, collective persona reflected in that last message.

1:25:18And I just hope they're wrong about it. I still want to think she's alive. I still want to think the investigators are looking to rescue her or at least have her released. And I'm assuming the task force has bifurcated those looking at everyone around Mrs. Guthrie, you know, housekeepers, all the people we talked about before. Then the other side of the team looking at a possible kidnapping. I'm hoping they're bringing the CIA in and NSA in terms of you can put anonymizers on your computers. You're pretty good for local law enforcement, even federal. But I'd like to think that our system, our federal government, you know, the spooks out there, the spies know how to truly penetrate a, you know, an anonymizing type system and take this back to Eastern Europe or sub-Sahara Africa, wherever these demands are coming from.

1:26:07I'm not giving anything away here. The NSA does not mess around. That is the group that knows everything. And they do know what phone, what cell phones for sure were in this area on last Saturday night between the hours of 8 and 3 a.m. I guarantee you they know that. And that was probably one of the first things they did once the feds got involved. Real quick, I'll go to Chad, but there's domestic and there's foreign FBI, domestic, CIA, foreign, NSA, et cetera. Trump said, no, you guys work together. We want this information out there. Yeah, I completely agree. Obviously, the three-letter agencies – listen, we found Osama bin Laden, right?

1:26:49And we had the technology to find the most well-known violent terrorist in the world. But if this video is more of just return the body, we want our mom, we want to have a celebration of life, why do we still have this 5 p.m. or 5.30 p.m. deadline of Monday if for some reason – if one of the letters said that and then they are giving us this intel? I mean I get it. Not everything is rosy and it's kind of confusing to me. Well, and would you recommend they pay? Here we are. It's almost 2 o 'clock Eastern. they say we will pay. It's very valuable to us. We will pay. I mean, the implicit thought is if you give her back to us, we will pay.

1:27:37The question is which comes first, but they are very aware. This is not an unsophisticated group. I mean, Savannah, definitely Savannah is not unsophisticated. They're very well aware that this could, and almost certainly would be flushing$6 million down the drain that you will never see again that some con man will take and leave. And they might be back next week with more bites of the apple. I mean, you know, you could do this game in perpetuity. Like, you waited too long, whatever. Because you got the feds involved, the price went up, we won another four. You know, it's just like, I have to say, I don't think I'd pay it if I were in this tier.

1:28:15Who can say, right? I mean, that's such a, I agree. Like, we are not in that, We're not in that position to know what that feels like. If my mother, and obviously we keep talking about these agencies, whether it is the CIA, NSA, the Bureau, whoever. I don't know. Is there technology? Are there ways? We have some smart people out here to say, okay, we will pay. We want her. and there's some way for these agencies to track the money in some type of covert or clandestine way. There's got to be. I don't think so. I don't think so. I think Bitcoin, once that's gone, it's gone forever, unfortunately.

1:28:59It was funny. I've been talking to my mom a lot this week for obvious reasons. And she made me laugh because I was telling her all the terrible things she should do. God forbid she got kidnapped. We had to make light out of it because it's gallows humor and you got to do it. And she said, she's all set. My mom's all set. She said, she's got her Louisville slugger and she's got her makeup foundation right next to her lazy boy. So she wants to look good, but she's ready to fight. And I laughed, and I'm so lucky that my mom's there and she and I can laugh about this. And it's a coping mechanism, but I look at those grim faces of Savannah and her siblings.

1:29:39And it's like, there's no laughing. There's no good outcome at this point. You can tell they don't believe she's alive anymore, but like they can't be sure because of this torturer with the notes. It's like, I feel like if the notes hadn't come by this point, they'd probably be accepting someone did something terrible to mom. But like at some point, Savannah, she's got young kids of her own. She's got to go back home. She has to take care of her children. She has obviously a career back here too. That's secondary. But how long can this go on, Chad? It's like, at what point does even law enforcement look at the siblings and say, we've done all we can do?

1:30:17It's rare you have to look at the family and say it's officially now cold. And that's one thing we have not discussed, right? This could very well turn into be a cold case. And obviously every agency has cold case units. It's not like this is going to be pushed to the back burner. It's too high profile of a case. People are going to continue to work on this case nonstop. I'll tell you what, you bringing up the conversations you had with your mom, I'll tell you the sad part of all this. We live in a sick world and there are sick people. I am very afraid all the publicity this has got, we are going to start seeing some type of copycat attacks.

1:30:53Oh God. It's so awful and dark, but yeah. I mean, there is a report in the Daily Mail that NBC has amped up security for all of its anchors. And we were asking, how about their family members? Because sadly, if this is an attack on Savannah Guthrie, then all the family members are in jeopardy too. You hate to even say it out loud, Jim, but yeah, obviously everybody who's in the public eye has to consider this right now. Yeah. And if the precedent is established in this case, we pay money with no proof of life, and if the mother's released, okay, that's one thing. But if she's not going to be with no proof of, kidnappers, they know the rules.

1:31:36I mean, they've obviously advanced with technology, Bitcoin, as opposed to, you know, bowling ball bags of$20 bills. But, you know, those types of things have shifted and how communications are rendered. but um they know that you have to you have to follow through on your plan or it's never going to work again yeah and that's why it's that they have an obligation to in a way yes it's it's it's the the criminal code all right we'll hand we'll play this game with you and i i mean game in a very uh you know very basic form definition uh but you know you got to play by the rules here too and if money goes out um for her and she is released that's a bad precedent that money goes out and she's never released, never found, that's a bad precedent also for future behavior on the parts of these criminal gangs, either, you know, internal to the U.S.

1:32:30or external to the U.S., in which they could just go along and do this. This would be such an easy payday for this group, whoever they are, of six million, if not more, whatever it is today, if this deadline isn't met. So it's I hate to think the precedent's been created when for, you know, almost 100 years now, You could count on almost literally one hand these exact type of kidnappings. And now with all the publicity this is getting, it may just happen again. And we all have to be careful. That's one of the things like our friend Billy Bush, who I love. He's awesome. He also worked at NBC for a very short stint before they blew him up.

1:33:10He was saying he thinks NBC should pay the money. I mean, this is a rounding error for NBC corporate. That's very clear. But there are strategic considerations in not paying. And you just touched on them, Jim. You know, it's like NBC has a lot of executives and talent it employs with a lot of family members who are not behind the fortification that the main star is. and, you know, does forking over 6 million out of NBC coffers jeopardize or endanger other people there or their family, you know, or even at other news organizations? Like the whole thing's very complicated. It's complicated for Savannah and her siblings too.

1:33:54You know, it's like they, I'm sure they're well aware the odds are even if they put this$6 million in there by 5 p.m. today, they're never gonna see their mom again. You know, they're not dumb. But the thing that must be governing them in the dark moments is, but there's a chance. There's a chance. You know, like I can see the discussions, Chad, like they knew about the watch. It was so specific. You know, they did know about the floodlight and how did they see that? It was on the exterior of the house, but it wasn't exactly prominent. I don't know. I guarantee you they don't, well, I guess I shouldn't guarantee.

1:34:33I assume they do not think it was anyone in their family, including the brother-in-law, et cetera. And there have been enough trickles outside of the family that they can go with that credibly. You know, the white van that was seen in the neighborhood. Over the weekend, a neighbor reported that Nancy Guthrie's roof looked too white. I guess these Tucson natives all know what the roofs of their houses look like, and they're usually pretty dirty. And she was like, that shows me she must have had it recently painted. So look into whether there were painters there. I see you had another contractor you maybe didn't think about.

1:35:04You probably thought about the weekly gardener or whoever, but a maid service. That's good. Okay, yes, they're probably looking into that lead right now. They found the camera. I forgot to mention that in the whole two hours today. They found a camera, a third camera on the roof of the house, Chad, when they searched on Friday night. Like, how did we not know about that? Okay, we didn't know about that. That seems like an important one. I guarantee she probably wasn't paying for that one to record either. if she wasn't. I guess I shouldn't guarantee, again, because there was something online with Nancy Guthrie asking around about what kind of a camera is best to record wildlife with.

1:35:39And so it is possible for that one, if that was her required wildlife camera, you know, the wildlife comes out at night. So maybe she did actually pay for that one to record. I don't know. But my point is simply all of this stuff will give you plenty and should give us plenty of fodder to go down the lane of it was a stranger abduction, the ransoms are real, and for$6 million, we can know. Yeah, I mean, going back to the roof, like that's, Jim will tell you, this is like basic police 101, right? Plenty of times suspects have left and in a panic tossed something on top of a roof. I'm not sure this was the first time.

1:36:16It appears like it was the first time they actually got on the roof and started searching. But I do think the sheriff has admitted he kind of dropped the ball on some of this investigation, delaying some of these things. especially getting their pilot up and, you know, not reaching out to the Bureau for a little bit of time. I think, you know, but I want to be careful. I don't, it's easy for us sitting back here to armchair quarterback, the sheriff's actions, but this is not a normal type of case that they are faced with on, you know, frequent. Nobody in the country is faced with this frequently.

1:36:47So I do want to give a little bit of grace. I'm not going to give grace to him going to the basketball game. That's for sure. Yeah. I want to ask another question guys that I've been meaning to ask. why did they search Nancy Guthrie's home? Sorry, Annie Guthrie's home at night. Brian Enten spoke with a former Pima County Sheriff's deputy who said typically they do it after they learn the information that's relevant. Like someone said something that they said, oh, shoot, we should go over there and check that out. And it could just be a matter of they learned something interesting at 6 p.m. that night.

1:37:26They called Annie and Tomas and said, Do we have your permission to go into the house? And they said, sure, go for it. So it could be that simple. But does it strike you as odd? Because in the darkness, is that the best time to go in? And the media is there 24-7. This couldn't have been about avoiding the media because they know as well as we do. They're camped out there and you're going to get caught doing what you're doing. Now, maybe it's harder for the media to see in. But the media saw the cameras going off. You can see this video we're playing here. They saw the flashes going off. They knew that they were doing investigative police work in there, Jim.

1:37:57Megan, am I correct in assuming this was Saturday night, six o 'clock, seven o 'clock, that they were at Annie's house? Correct. It ended at, I think, it was 7.30 to 10.30 or about there. So coincidentally or not, planned or not, one week to the hour, they went back to the house when ostensibly Mrs. Guthrie was last seen, or at least spent time with family members there. and the agents just wanted to see the outside, the lighting elements. I mean, they may have been searching for other things too. Obviously, DNA of Mrs. Guthrie, of Nancy, or certainly fingerprints wouldn't mean anything because she's there all the time.

1:38:41So they just perhaps wanted to go back the exact week after it happened, just like I'm hoping there were road stops out there around 2 in the morning through 6 a.m. Sunday morning in that area, one week after the fact. So it could be a very practical reason or it could be more conflated that we don't know about. Stand by. There's news breaking on the case. I think Chad's got to run. Jim's going to stay with us. Chad, if you can stay, you're welcome to stay, too. And we will be right back with more with the guys. You know, Pure Talk's favorite holiday, it's President's Day, because they believe wireless service should cost you only a couple of presidents, just a Jackson and a Lincoln, to be exact.

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1:40:47Jim and Chad are back with me. Guys, two things just in. NBC's Kelly O'Donnell just reporting that President Trump has been, quote, closely following the Guthrie investigation and, quote, receiving frequent updates, end quote, citing Caroline Levitt, who did not hold a press briefing, So we're not totally sure. Maybe she just reached out to her directly. He's been closely following it and he's been receiving frequent updates left unsaid is from whom exactly, because that appears to be the person that told him that other stuff. Trump would not come out there and just say all that stuff about, you know, we're close.

1:41:27We're doing very well. We have clues that are very strong, could have answers very soon, not regarding a search, but regarding a solution. We have things that may come out, could be definitive reasonably soon. Is there a suspect? He says, yeah, but it's a passing sort of quick exchange. So I'm not 100 % sure he meant to say there's a suspect in any event. That's the latest from the White House. And now the Daily Mail just dropping this piece as we signed off from the two o 'clock hour. And there's something in here that's relevant to something we've been discussing. The headline of the piece is Anguished Savannah Guthrie Rushes to$1.2 million Desert Hideaway Amid FBI Search at Sister Annie's Home and as 5 p.m.

1:42:10Ransom Deadline Looms. And it's all about how she, her brother, her sister, and they say her brother-in-law have moved into this mansion, which is in a gated community, which is good. as they wait this thing out. And we'll refrain from giving any of the other details of where they're staying since it's unnecessary. But almost as a throwaway in here, you guys, the Daily Mail, which is the one that broke the news that she wasn't attending church in person, that Nancy Guthrie was attending it online via a live stream that was not visible to the congregants, leaving us all to wonder how would the family have been alerted that she wasn't at church, answers its own question in here without really calling attention to the fact that they've solved a mystery of their own creation.

1:42:59They write, they're going through the timeline of the night in question. Her pacemaker disconnected from an app on her phone, suggesting she had moved out of range. And then they write, the alarm was not raised until the following day when Nancy failed to join a group of friends who had been due to watch an online service at St. Andrew's Presbyterian Church together that morning. At 11.56 a.m., Nancy's family arrived to her home and so on. So if that's true, that she wasn't going, I mean, it's kind of odd. She wasn't going to church since COVID, presumably because of the germ factor. I don't know.

1:43:39But she was gathering with friends to watch the church. Like if you gather with, whatever. That may have been her habit. If that's true, then it would explain how things went down that morning, but it would not clear up the discrepancy in the timing as the police changed the timeline dramatically at that Thursday presser. You know, Nanos was all over the news media saying that the family had called, had arrived at the house around 11, 1110 and didn't call them until 1157. Sorry, just afternoon. And he was like, oh, it took him an hour to look for her. And then at that presser, he just completely changed it to, it only took him seven minutes to call us.

1:44:20They arrived at 1157 and they called at four after. That has not been explained. But if that's true about her watching generally the online service with friends and she didn't show up to the friend group, that would explain it, I think. Okay, but now I want to shift to discussing what they were searching, you guys. They went to the back of the property, Nancy's property, and they removed this, we're calling it a manhole cover because that's what it looks like. And they shoved like some long pole down there. We believe it might've been a water tank of some sort because it doesn't look like a septic tank given how casual the guy is.

1:44:54He's not dressed in a mask or anything. And we reportedly put a metal detector down there. So what do you think is happening here, Chad? Yeah, I think, first of all, with the metal detector aspect, they're going to see if any type of weapon was disregarded into this area. I think that's a mixture of a weapon or also looking for a body. Listen, we do have confirmation that there are agencies out there conducting grid searches. Now, I did, I think I asked on Friday, or it might have been yesterday, with a team of people we were discussing this. They said there's not a lot of grid searching going on right there in that immediate area.

1:45:39I find that very interesting. Now, granted, I've pulled this location up on a map. I've looked at the topography of it, and we do see, we have seen some maps being attached to vehicles. I would assume that there would be an intense grid search going on. And if there's not an intense grid search going on, it makes me believe that the Bureau is truly believing she is not in that immediate area. But good police work, I'm not trusting these kidnappers. I'm still going to conduct a grid search of all over that area. I'm going to put guys on horseback. I'm going to have Bortat come in because they are very good at working in that type of terrain.

1:46:15But it would be interesting, Megan, you know, I know you've got some of your team that should be arriving pretty soon. So I would love to know what it looks like around the area of that residence. Is there, you know, boots on the ground searches being conducted in that immediate vicinity? And also what we did here on Saturday night that they did a grid search. They used that term grid search Saturday night over at Nancy's property. We talked about the search at Annie's property, but at Nancy's property, they had a grid search going as well, we were told. And Chad, they also had these maps laid out on the side of their vehicles, like the side of a Jeep or an SUV.

1:46:59They're showing it here, a pickup truck. And can't quite see it from here, but it's the neighborhood. It's like the streets of this neighborhood. and obviously they're very interested in, I don't know what they're searching for. Is it a weapon? Is it Nancy? Well, I would have a lot better direction on this, Megan, if we also knew, have we seen dogs on the ground? Are we using bloodhounds? Are we using cadaver dogs? Are we using patrol dogs that can conduct article searches? Canines, I can give them a command and anything with human odor on it, whether it's a car key, you know, evidence can be found by canines.

1:47:43These are all questions. And look, we've had drones up, news drones up. We've had news helicopters up. I have not seen many dogs being deployed out in that area. But again, I'm not there. These are questions that I would love to know. I heard a former FBI agent speaking with Brian over the weekend,

1:48:07saying, obviously the animal factor is very dark to consider, but you do have to consider it because they gave up the search and rescue within 24 hours. And so if God forbid Nancy were killed and left out in that desert, you know, anything could have happened to her by now. And if her remains are gone, so is evidence. But this FBI agent, Jim, was talking about how the FBI would have her, as a matter of course, if they're searching an area like this, like in the desert, they would gather animal scat, meaning like feces, and they would examine it for bones and human hair, not all of which can be digested even by an animal.

1:48:53So like the game is not necessarily over if, God forbid, you're trying to find a murder victim and the animals have gotten to this person before the searchers have? I know this is all extremely macabre, but this is what guys like you have to think about. Yeah. And I'm familiar with research done on body farms, which people donate their bodies and academics and law enforcement. They put the bodies out in various types of terrains, underground, above ground, cold, warm with animals, with insects. and a lot of different things has been learned have been learned over the last few years last you know quarter of a century really since uh i know it's been going on so uh they are very wait wait wait can you just explain that are you saying that like somebody who instead of donating their body to science to be like a cadaver in a med school they donate it to a body farm so people can just see what happens to it if you put out in the wilderness there's video cameras they put on the bodies and uh and they test it every day temperatures i mean all kinds of factors so we know strictly for these types of operations and none of us, none of us want to go here today about Nancy Guthrie, but these are factors that, you know, they're flying other teams, you know, into this task force area in Tucson and that person, Hey, this is our specialty.

1:50:10Let us go out and do this. So of course they're looking into the, whether they're wells, septic tanks, whatever they are with different types of devices. And Megan, it was early last week. I think I said to you, I'm hoping they really checked the property of Mrs. Guthrie, including the pool room where the filter chlorinators kept and of course by extension any type of a well on her property water tower in the area anything like that so uh this is very logical they have to do i'll tell you and chad can relate to this i'm sure uh no investigator out there nor his or her supervisor when we'll just say mrs guthrie is found wants to be the one to say why didn't you check there didn't we tell you to do that or is not you know uh forensics 101 or, you know, grid search 101.

1:50:52So they want to make sure they're covering every track. But not just for that reason, because they want to get it done right. And they've had a week now, over a week, and they're now looking at every single option that they may not have explored. And quite frankly, they should go over it again. I've been in cases where local law enforcement academies, you know, the recruits, they could be in for two weeks or two months, they're emptied and maybe 40 or 60 people are not getting as many recruits anymore as they used to, but certainly they would bring them in, bus them in. They're the ones doing these crime scene grid searches.

1:51:25And they really should be doing that. Every single square inch of that area should be searched, search warrants or not, if they're needed, to look for shallow graves. And there's ground-penetrating radar that's out there, and that's very sophisticated. You can find movement of the earth. You can see that from above. So there's all kinds of things they're going to do. And that's why I said this team is, it's bifurcated. We're working the kidnapping. We're working that someone else just took her and dropped her off. And of course, there are sub teams on each one of those trying to put this together.

1:51:58New people are flying in from all different types of agencies. They come up with ideas. Sure, nothing's worked so far. Let's go out and check this place. And that's kind of what they're doing there. I mean, I hate to say it, but the pacemaker would still be there. You know, I mean, the pacemaker is not something that an animal would consume. I'm sorry to get so graphic. It's just as we see them doing grid search after grid search in her backyard, I think we all know exactly what they're looking for. One of two things, clues from the kidnapper slash perpetrator and or Nancy and her remains. And, you know, I mean, that's why you do a grid search generally and you're looking for evidence.

1:52:39And I saw them put that metal detector down there, Chad. And all I could think was, would it detect a pacemaker? Would a metal detector? And I actually just did a quick search online. It was like, well, it might, it actually might. And they give people who have pacemakers, it sounds like kind of conflicting advice about going through a magnetometer, like maybe just tell people who are gonna wand you that you have it, they tell them. It's not gonna hurt you if you get wanded, but like you don't want the wand to linger in front of the pacemaker for too long because it could kind of change the wavelength or whatever.

1:53:09But it's possible that they were hoping to catch, you know, that piece of metal. And maybe that could be an identifying, God forbid, the worst has happened, an identifying thing that is left behind. Sorry, again, it's dark, but that's the story that we're covering. The other thing they seized, Chad, and maybe it's just what you guys are saying, was now they seized Nancy's car. Now. I mean, literally a week after she went missing. but there's not as far as I know, even an allegation that she drove this car during any of the relevant timeframe. Well, not just that. We also know that why didn't, you know, she may have had a car, but we also know we're dealing with an 84 year old lady with a lot of health conditions.

1:53:54You know, questions I would have, that we haven't heard is does she still actively drive? And if she does, you know, is it possible, you know, that she was out driving? and there is trace DNA from someone that was in her car, whether it is a worker, again, going back to the home health care or someone else. I think that that is just good police work to do a complete analysis of that vehicle as well and see if there were any fibers in that vehicle. Again, we have to do— Like you could have had a situation where they were dragging her out of the house and they said, put her in the car for a second while we get right.

1:54:35Yeah. Like in other words, why wouldn't you check it? Why would, why wouldn't you take that down to the lab and swab every inch of it? Wait, that just reminded me. Think about the timeline. Friday night, we saw a video, courtesy of Fox news of them on the rooftop, finding that, that camera. There is 100 % a camera on the top of Nancy Guthrie's roof. And earlier that week, it had been circulating online and I had seen it myself. There was a post by Nancy Guthrie online, I don't know, a while back, it was a couple of years ago, saying, what's the best camera for watching wildlife? And various people weighed in.

1:55:15She wanted to see like the coyotes in her backyard, who again, are mostly nighttime creatures. So it is possible, you guys, that that camera did have some sort of a recording capacity to it. Clearly, the Pima County sheriff missed it because he wouldn't have left a camera sitting there from Sunday to Friday if he knew about it. And it does get kind Kind of interesting that it was Friday night that President Trump later made his comments. Didn't he just can we just hear one more time? Forgive me for playing it one more time. Can we hear Trump one more time? You promised Savannah Guthrie's family the full support of federal law enforcement.

1:56:01FBI is now. I'll give you a little statement. I think we're doing very well on that regard. You're probably surprised to hear that. I think we're doing very well. very well meeting. We have some clues, I think, that are very strong. And I think we could have some answers coming up fairly soon. Nationwide search. Is this a search going to Mexico? I'm talking about a search. I'm talking about a solution. We have some things I think that will maybe come out reasonably soon from DOJ or FBI or whoever that could be definitive. A lot's taken place in the last couple of hours. A lot of things have happened with regard to that horrible situation in the last couple of hours.

1:56:50There it is. Last couple of hours. He could be talking about that camera, Jim. What if that camera did have a recording function and they actually have somebody on tape who also might not have banked on the rooftop cam. Yeah, and again, I'd want timestamps on when the camera was found and when you said it was Friday night that the president made that statement. We're looking it up right now, I guess. Yeah, and the camera was found. It was like in daylight, there's agents up there. So that could be an important fact, not just that the camera was found. I don't think President Trump would say something, oh, they found one extra camera, but there was some kind of a recording aspect to it.

1:57:31And boy, neither Chad nor I, I don't think we've said anything really negative about law enforcement. But if somehow they missed this camera for the first five days or so, that's not a good sign, especially if it has recording capabilities, you know, in the cloud somewhere. Either way, the thing wasn't smashed, even if it had a thumb drive in it of some sort, depending on how they work. But yeah, you don't get these things for wildlife. You just see them in real time. Maybe you get a notice on your phone and, oh, look, a little coyote out there. But you want to be able to wake up in the morning and see what the heck happened with all the critters overnight.

1:58:05So it would only make sense. It's weird that your doorbell camera wouldn't have recording capabilities. Maybe not so weird that the one on top of the house right by the front door looks like wood. And boy, what a treasure trove of recorded evidence that could be. So it would be nice to see that. You know, Chad, one of the oddities of that, though, is why wouldn't the family have told law enforcement she's got a camera on the roof? Did you get that one? She loved it. She loved to watch the wildlife, you know, or and maybe even who knows, like it could have been a family member who installed it.

1:58:44I mean, in my family, if something's getting installed at my mom's house, it's either my brother, our handyman, or the service provider who brought it. So it's like it's a small circle of people who would have done it. Well, I think, too, in critical situations, Jim, being the behavior guy, we all handle stress and trauma differently. And so at this time frame, your mother's missing. Is it possible they didn't even think about that camera up top? with everything that's going on? No, that's not possible. That's not possible. If your mother's missing, it is critical that you account for every video device that could possibly have caught her abduction for authorities.

1:59:36I agree, but could it have popped in their head later on? is they didn't know about it. It's possible they didn't know about it. Maybe she just had it done. The service provider put it up there and she never discussed it with anybody. And a lot of these wildlife cameras, at least the ones, look, I'm a hunter, so I'm basing this off of cameras that I put out in the woods to see wildlife. I have an app. And if I don't pay the subscription, I'm not getting the photos in a file sent to that app. But all of my cameras, all those cameras on the wildlife side type of trail cameras do have an SD card in them that can be removed.

2:00:13I do know that for a 100 % fact. I'm not saying that's what type of camera was utilized, but if it was, most of these cameras, even if she did not have a subscription, most of these cameras have some type of SD card inside of them. That, I mean, that's really interesting. Even if it weren't the camera, it does make you wonder, What did President learn on Friday? President Trump learned, we've learned in the past couple of hours, the presser was on Thursday. When did the second note come? Was it Friday, you guys? Yes. It was Friday. Some point Friday. The second note came on Friday. It's possible that person, again, because we're not sure if President Trump was referring to finding the suspect who hurt Nancy or the notes, the person behind the notes.

2:01:02Maybe the person screwed up. Maybe there was some identifying information on the second note that he was referring to then because that timing also dovetails. And we're trying to figure out the exact timing of the Fox video of them finding the camera and President Trump's remarks. Hold on a second. The Fox post about the agent pulling the wired device from the roof was posted at 8.37 p.m. Okay, but that's Eastern. So that would have been 6.37 p.m. Tucson time. And do we know? OK, the gaggle with President Trump began at 726 on Air Force One Eastern time. So that was before Fox News posted it. So maybe but I don't know that doesn't Fox.

2:01:47Trump's not getting his information on what's happening in this case from Fox News. He's getting it clearly from DOJ or FBI. And who knows? Maybe they did. maybe they had already, you know, you get that, you're going to look in two seconds. You're going to take that as whatever you call that, the USB card. You're going to stick it in a laptop on site to see if you can see something, who knows? So there's that possibility. And there's also a possibility that they were able to identify something off of the note that was sent on Friday, but something appears to have broken on Friday that got the president excited about, you know, the possibility of solving this case.

2:02:28Brian Engine reported Friday that a ransom message, although now we know it wasn't. He reported it at 6.20 p.m. Again, law enforcement is going to know about all this long before we do. So that came at 6.20. The president began his gaggle on Air Force One at 7.26. And the Fox post about the agent pulling the wire device from the roof was 8.37 p.m. but again we don't know when that actually happened um we just know that they did a post about it i'll tell you one thing i don't know how Fox would have handled that one thing i find very interesting and i may be looking into this too much but it is now confirmed that cash patel will be in tucson so you're saying it is it is confirmed that cash patel will be in Tucson tomorrow.

2:03:19So could this be, you know, is this already just a planned trip that he had to come out there? Or are we going to have a good presser tomorrow with some updated intelligence or information? I have a question about the Kash Patel thing, but let me just, do you have the message, Steve? Can you send it to me? It was 2021 that Nancy was looking for a camera so she could watch outdoor wildlife, which is not as great as it being like 2023 or 2024. You know, the bloom comes off the rose on that kind of thing. And maybe you let the subscription lapse. And, you know, maybe if you first had a recording service by year five or four, you're kind of like, eh, I'm not that, I'm not that into it.

2:04:07Last week, there was a report that Cash was going out to Tucson. And then they said, no, that's not right. But they said he is coming next week. And they said, but it's preplanned. I don't I got I got some doubts about it Jim I like it just so happens that the FBI director is going to Tucson Arizona Arizona of all places I mean it's a border town but that's not really I got I got some doubts I got some doubts I got some doubts I got some doubts I got some doubts I got some I got some I got some I got some close up. And other directors want to give support to long ranging and long term investigations.

2:04:51You know, Obama was that this is only nine days or so now. So but nonetheless, he wants to come out. He seems to be like a hands on sort of director. And I support how he's doing that. At least in the Charlie Kirk matter, he did put something out a little bit premature, but I don't think he's done that since then. So he's been very careful. And if he did tell President Trump something and then President Trump put that statement out, I'd like to think they had something, but of course, what is it? Probably wasn't a body being found because the family would have been told that right away. It has to have something to do with the communications, perhaps the camera information on it, and perhaps they could take it to a lab and they could do some special work with it to recover what was in there.

2:05:27If it's only that SD card that Chad was talking about, look, they could be working overseas with some of our partners. And again, I'm not ruling out that these extortionists, we'll call them that now, if they're not really the kidnappers, which it's very possible they're not, You know, they have some countries over there and their intelligence agents looking at some at some facilities, some houses. Not that Mrs. Guthrie is there by any stretch, but at least looking at the people running this part of it and going from there. So there's some and maybe Cash Patel has something to say about that next day or two.

2:05:56But that's the only kind of break they're looking for right now. That stuff's all secondary. It'd be great to arrest those guys. But we really want to find Mrs. Guthrie hopefully alive. but the family just wants back to do that celebration that they talked about. But of course, it'll be a celebration of life at this point. Well, we'll know soon enough whether Cash is going out there for this case and has something to say. Obviously, you know, that won't be a secret. But again, I think that the FBI is in a backseat role on this, even though they are the ones who arrested the fake, the for sure fake ransom demander, you know, the one who was harassing the family via text message.

2:06:35They did arrest that guy. Here's the tweet, you guys. It's not a tweet. I think she posted it on Reddit or forum. November 25th. What was this, Steve? Next door. November 25th, 2021. She posted, quote, I'm thinking about buying ring or nest security slash doorbell camera. Any suggestions? Which has the best camera? Interested in seeing animal activity at night. So that was 2021. We know for a fact she did get two Nest security cameras, and she appears to have gotten a third camera. And it is possible that this case will all come down to that. Guys, thank you. To be continued, best time tomorrow we'll know what the family decided to do on the agonizing decision about a$6 million ransom where there's been no proof of life.

2:07:25Say a prayer for them. Chad, thank you. Jim, you as well. and thanks to all of you for listening and tuning in. We did not get to the Super Bowl, but I'm pretty sure you're not depending on me for your sports news. I do have some thoughts on the absurdity of Bad Bunny. Just had a very, very feisty argument with Piers Morgan on his show about Bad Bunny, whom he defended. I did not. And we will get into that. Tomorrow we have Andrew Klavan here and we're gonna bring our guys back too for any developments in this case. so we'll have time for some other news as well. Thank you all and lots of love.

2:08:03We'll see you tomorrow. Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.