Nick Reiner Defense Ahead, and Brown U. Shooter Inaction, with Arthur Aidala and Matt Murphy, and Leadership Traits with Dakota Meyer | Ep. 1215

25:19It's essentially psychotherapists, priests, and your spouse. And that's about it. So yeah, you can make a parent testify. And remember, this is Utah. And I practice in California. Arthur is the man of New York City. Which, by the way, that last thing, that's why I would hire Arthur if I got in trouble in New York, because if I had damning text messages, he's the only guy I can think of that might be able to get me off the hook. Probably Gary goes in L.A., but it's Arthur out here. But look, we're talking about this is a really serious case. We're talking about Utah. As a prosecutor, a Utah jury is a dream jury.

25:57And they're going to come in, and I have no doubt they'll be fair. They will follow the law. But that is a very good, it's called a venire or a jury pool. for for the prosecution especially in that county and and they're they're not i you know in la those arguments can carry the day sometimes those crazy conspiracy theories new york they certainly can utah that is a that is a tougher road to hoe uh that is a that's a tough one and that's why i you're right and that's why i there's rumors out there now that the feds are trying to get involved with this case like the feds you don't oh yeah the way there's just to let the audience know what we're talking about.

26:36There's a report today from NBC News that the DOJ is weighing, quote, novel federal hate crime case against Charlie's alleged killer, weighing how to bring federal charges against the shooter, including a, quote, novel legal theory that it was an anti-Christian hate crime, which could potentially give the feds jurisdiction. He's facing multiple state charges in Utah at the moment, but to make it federal would give like a backup lien of prosecution if the Utah prosecution fails. Go ahead, Arthur. Yeah, I mean, including, I believe, the death penalty they're seeking in the state of Utah. So like, you know, like, I respect the federal system, but sometimes, you know, just step back.

27:20The feds are not, they don't do murder cases, because people understand that. State prosecutor's office handles straight up murder cases. And this is a straight up murder case. Yes, there's political issues, et cetera, but let's look at the actual facts and the elements of the crime. No one's going to prove if someone's a Republican, a Democrat, a conservative, a liberal or anything else. It's, you know, at this time, at this place, did you cause the death of Charlie Kirk by firing a firearm and it causes death? Yes. Period. Amen. Guilty. End of story. Judge, what's the sentence? Life in prison.

27:52Death penalty. Like, we're good. Like, we don't need you to come in and start manipulating and masticating the laws, the federal laws to figure out how to bring a federal case. You know, they did this with Puffy. But what, isn't it a decent backup? Isn't it a good backup? Like in case the Utah case goes south or no? Hopefully you don't need a backup, number one. But, you know, they did this in Sean Combs' case where, oh, the feds had to come in and take this over. Now, there may have been a statute of limitations issue. But on that case, that video of Sean Combs beating up the young woman there, Casey, whatever her name is, Cassie, like that's a slam dunk conviction of a kid who's still in law school would get a conviction on that case.

28:32And he would have got a lot more time in jail than 40 some odd months that he's going to wind up doing. So, you know, sometimes the feds step in and they wind up making things worse than making these better. I feel like I don't know. So far, I have no reason not to trust in the competence of the Utah prosecutors. They unlike what's happening at Brown University. They, for me, have done nothing other than instill confidence. I haven't seen Keystone cop like behavior out there. So I believe in them. The one thing that's so annoying, though, I'll say this, Matt, I mean, you've tried so many cases.

29:05The doubters that Tyler Robinson had anything to do with this are out there over and over on the Internet. Like, I see tons of comments to this effect. Why doesn't the FBI come out and update the evidence? Why? It's the FBI's fault that there are conspiracy theories because they're not telling us what they have. Like, why don't they explain this? Why don't they explain that? And it's like, first of all, this is a state prosecution. It's not an FBI case anymore. anymore. And second of all, when do prosecutors do that? They come out sometimes and make an initial statement about the case and why they've indicted this person.

29:37But I don't remember a case other than with an inappropriate prosecutor where they continue running out to the cameras to say, oh, I just got this. Oh, let me explain this. Oh, and I saw a show that questioned my evidence on that. And so I'll explain to you why that theory doesn't make sense. Well, you're exactly right. Right. And look, so is Arthur. I could I totally agree. Murders are state cases. A lot of people don't know this. And that kind of reminds me a little bit of the Pro Burgers on the Brian Koberger case. Remember that, Megan? He had a whole cheering section. People were putting money on his books.

30:10It's a bunch of, you know, well-meaning lunatics who think they know better because they have a friend who sent him some friggin podcast on a conspiracy theory. It is unethical. A lot of people don't know this. It is unethical both in the modern rules under the ABA, but in California, the professionals prohibit a prosecutor from releasing evidence during a pending case. It's like the press conference that we saw with Nathan Hockman yesterday in LA. He did it exactly right. So going back to that, though, the feds, they're really good at a lot of white-collar stuff, and they're not good at murders.

30:50This is, at the end of the day, as much national attention and interest as there is, this is a state case, state prosecutors and murder cases, Fed prosecutors, federal prosecutors are really good at white-collar crime. That's basically the way – and again, Arthur's right. I'm agreeing with him so much at this point. But look, Diddy's a perfect example. It really is. But the reason why the feds had to go after Diddy, Megan, is because George Gascon, who was a terrible DA in Los Angeles, wasn't pursuing any of those like that slam dunk domestic violence case that we saw regarding the beating of Cassie Ventura.

31:26That was not being pursued in state court because the district attorney was terrible, in my opinion. So that's why the feds had to come in. This is one where the Utah authorities have this in hand. This goes to the 10th Circuit, by the way, Utah's 10th, not 9th Circuit, which is the most liberal federal circuit in the country, which means this guy really has they're going to convict him based on this evidence. And it's going to be upheld on appeal as long as they don't do stupid things like releasing evidence that they have to appease people online. Well, the other thing is you tell me, Arthur, but let's say the mom and the dad.

32:03Find some reason to change their story. I misremembered what Tyler said. That's not how it went down. He didn't actually confess. I just, you know, I had my questions about it, but he didn't confess. Then you put that preacher slash cop on the stand, the one that they called saying he just confessed, the one that brought him in. And that guy is going to tell the truth. And it's not going to be hearsay, Tyler to the parents, the parents to him, because the parents will be hostile witnesses at that point. There'll be an impeachment, right, through this other witness of what the parents told them.

32:40So either way, they're going to get Tyler Robinson's alleged confession before this jury. Am I wrong? No, I don't think you're wrong. The bigger point, though, about the feds and all of this is, again, we shouldn't. Obviously, everyone wants the proper person to be convicted of this crime. I don't know anyone who would disagree with that. But if a jury finds that a prosecutor doesn't prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt, the feds shouldn't then create a new law just to go after a guy the way they did here in Manhattan to go after Trump. They created a new criminal law that just didn't exist before.

33:21And they totally mishmashed the statute of limitations because we want this guy. Once we start doing that, once we start bending the rules and changing the rules and creating rules to get one individual, that's the end of our society and at least the criminal justice system. OK, let's keep going, because I do want to talk about the Reiner case, too. There was new video released yesterday showing Nick Reiner calmly strolling near his parents' home hours before the murders. This was obtained by The New York Post. Let's take a look at it. It's video one. it's just a sidewalk. This is just him walking for the listening audience.

34:01He has a bag over his left shoulder. He's walking calmly, doesn't look irate, doesn't look out of his mind, looks kind of normal. He's walking past the gas station with a hat. He has not yet murdered anybody, allegedly, and looks within his wits for what it's worth. Then we have video of him purchasing a drink at a gas station moments before he was arrested. This is an ABC News video. Here he is. Once again, he's got a bag over his left shoulder, it appears, and he's kind of meandering around a convenience store and again, does not look out of his mind, deranged in any way, disturbed. And this is after, this is after again, the murder.

34:51One more video I want to show you. This is of him surrendering on an LA street as the cops corner him. This is a little harder to see, but you can see a bit. Hold on. Where did we get this? Oh, this is from the New York Post. Okay. The law enforcement has since said he went into custody willingly. He didn't resist arrest. Hold on a sec. You can see the cops. You can't really see the defendant at this point. he's behind the car, but you can see the cops are not in like a terror stance that we sometimes see when somebody resists or pulls a gun or a knife on them. They actually look pretty calm. They far outnumber the one guy, but he was brought into custody without incident, according to all reports.

35:36And I mentioned all that and show all that because it is evidence, Matt, and it could become relevant as more and more people question whether this gunsling and lawyer who just got hired to represent Nick Reiner, who's been very successful, at least in the Karen Reed case and getting an acquittal, is going to argue that he's not guilty by reason of mental defect, that he was out of his mind on drugs or had a lifelong struggle with mental illness that manifested the night that he took his parents' lives, allegedly. Right. So I've known Alan Jackson for years. He was an LADA for a long time when I was working homicide in Orange County.

36:17And he is an immensely talented lawyer. And he's actually a good guy. But you're absolutely right. He's going to have a hard time with those videos. California uses what's known as the McNaughton Rule. I think New York is pretty similar, Arthur, if I'm not mistaken. And essentially, it's a 150-year-old rule. that provides that if you understand the nature and quality of your acts, you are responsible for them, even if you're suffering from mental illness or if you're suffering from intoxication. So what a jury essentially has to find, and the burden is on the defense, to establish that by preponderance of the evidence.

36:51So what that means is if you've got somebody that's howling at the moon and they don't know what they're doing, that's a case that you might have a shot at insanity. Otherwise, even if they're drunk, even if they're high, even if they are suffering from mental illness, if they understand the nature and quality of their actions, in other words, they understand that they're killing human beings and not stabbing bananas or aliens or whatever crazy delusion they're suffering from, they are legally responsible in the state of California. And as crazy as California is, and it feels like it gets a little crazier every day, sort of pro-defendant, that is a law that they haven't touched yet.

37:27And that is the current state of the law. And those videos are bad for them. Is sanity a jury question? I'm sorry? Yes. Is sanity a jury question? Yeah. So California uses what's known as a bifurcated system, Megan, where first you have a you have a guilt phase and then you have a sanity phase. It's like a death penalty case. We have a guilt phase and then a penalty phase. One of my last murders before I left the DA's office was a case that was freakishly close. facts-wise. It was my Nicholson case at Newport Beach where a young, very entitled, very wealthy young man who was suffering from pretty well-documented organic mental illness mixed with addiction got into it with his parents, and he stabbed his mother and father to death in the house, and he also waited for the housekeeper.

38:14That case just went to trial on October 31st of this year. And a friend of mine, I handed the baton to you when I walked out of the office, my friend Dave Porter. And that one, that guy had documented organic mental illness in addition to it. But the bar is really high on insanity. And that jury found him legally sane. And his sentencing is coming up actually at the end of this week. So a jury, despite really well documented actual mental illness mixed with addiction, found that under the McNaughton rule, that guy was responsible. And I'll tell you another thing, what that young woman, Rami, saw when she discovered her parents, you know, and Art has seen these two, stabbing murders are the worst because it's not like TV, Megan, where somebody gets stabbed once with a knife and they fall down dead.

39:03That's what you see in the movies. In reality, they die from what's called exsanguination. That means they bleed to death. And that takes minutes, which means they are fighting, they're running around. And the rumor is, this is from multiple sources, I don't know if this is true and we don't know the evidence yet. And of course he's presumed innocent, but, um, rumor is that he cut both of their throats. And when you present one of those as a prosecutor, when they said while in bed, but there's a report today saying that they were found in bed, right? But if you go back later and you, and you cut their throats or you slash their wrists and I've prosecuted those two and stabbing cases, juries do not like that.

39:39Um, it, it, it, it shows a calculated cold blooded premeditated nature. Even if the initial contact or the the initial fight is spontaneous and hot-blooded, when the killer goes back and cuts throats, that is such a, just a decidedly vicious move that, look, and I heard you say yesterday on one of the commentaries, Karen Reed was one thing, but my friend Alan Jackson has his work cut out for this one. And another thing is behind the scenes, I got a bunch of friends in the LADA's office, and they're all telling me that the team that Nathan Hockman put together on this is top top notch. So that's going to be interesting to watch.

40:17It's going to go to trial. There's no deal that they're going to be able to make. I don't think Hockman's going to seek the death penalty on this just because it's inner family. And in California, you seek the death penalty. There's a moratorium on it, but you seek, we sought it. I was on our committee for 15 years. We sought it in less than 4 % of the cases that qualified. So those are the special circumstance murders, which are a small fraction of all the murders. And so I don't think - I'm not saying this is, though. They are calling this special circumstance now. It's definitely special circ.

40:48It was— Multiple murder. Yeah, they say it is, but I agree. That doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to seek the death penalty. They've charged him with—oh, hold on a second. That's a different case. But in any event, yes, they have alleged special circumstances against Nick Reiner. I always presume people know the cases that we've been covering nonstop, but I hate when people do that. We are discussing the murder of famed director Rob Reiner and his wife Michelle Singer Reiner killed in their home allegedly by their own 32-year-old son Nick Reiner, who had a lifetime of drug addiction problems and reportedly mental health problems as well.

41:29Getting some more details on that. Here's the charges. sorry, two counts of first degree murder with a special circumstance of multiple murders, also faces a special allegation that he personally used a dangerous and deadly weapon, that being a knife. These charges carry a maximum sentence of life in prison and the possibility, or without the possibility of parole, and also potentially the death penalty. They'll make the decision on the death penalty later. But now we're getting a few more details. The Daily Mail, Arthur reporting, They were found in bed with their throats cut and may have been asleep when they were murdered, a source close to the investigation tells the Daily Mail.

42:06I mean, that would only amplify Matt's point if he, in other words, left them no chance whatsoever, just like sneaked up on them, took their lives while they were asleep. I'm not sure a jury's going to feel too fondly about that either. They died, we believe sometime overnight, Saturday night. Their bodies were found 3.30 PM on Sunday when their daughter Romy found them and called 911. The report yesterday that we aired from Billy Bush has been contradicted that Romy did not find her mother alive and that there was no last minute statement that it was the son. That was his reporting. Now several reports contradicting that saying that there's no support for that whatsoever.

42:46Nick, one of the Reiner's three children had been living in the mansion's guest house. He would quote, according to a friend, do meth and not sleep for days and then have outbursts, breaking things, punching walls. He was, quote, a ticking time bomb. His drug use was getting worse. His parents wanted him out, claimed the friend. According to TMZ, after leaving the Conan O 'Brien Christmas party on Saturday night where Rob and Michelle had been invited, and it looks like they graciously brought their kid along who lived at their guest house, Nick. By the way, we were told that it was some sort of formal dress.

43:17I've even heard in one report that people were wearing formal wear, except Nick was not. He showed up rude, behaving inappropriately. A witness told TMZ he appeared, quote, tweaked out. And they said that he stormed off, the New York Post reports, after getting into a tiff with comedian Bill Hader, that H-A-D-E-R, that Nick interrupted Bill Hader at the bash and eyewitness told NBC. When Hader told Nick that he was in the middle of a private conversation, the source said Nick just stood there and stared before storming off. And one final piece here that may be relevant. Well, this is definitely relevant, but this isn't the piece I meant.

43:57They said in the hotel room he rented after the murders, his shower was later found full of blood with bloodstains on the bed and bedsheets covering the windows. That's incriminating. And finally, this. Daily Mail reports from someone who says he knows the family and Nick well that this person had just spoken with the other brother, Jake, within the past 24 hours since the murders, so it does appear to be close to them, saying Nick was a deeply troubled child who needed physical restraint for his rages from a very young age, that his issues began well before his teenage years, and thus we presume well before his drug use, that Jake, the other brother, is, quote, beyond himself with grief.

44:37Nick's uncontrollable anger was not new, said the friend. A lot of the, quoting here, a lot of their fights had to do with him just doing something self-destructive and fighting back when they tried to help him. It did get physical sometimes, not talking punches, but restraining him. I was over there, must've been early 2000s. He was about 11. He was throwing the biggest tantrum and Rob Reiner just had him in a bear hug to restrain him. The tantrum was over nothing, but he had so much anger in his eyes. It was terrifying really. And this happened, happened, excuse me, a lot. He never outgrew it.

45:09He had tantrums well into his twenties. This, I don't like the term bad seed, Arthur, but it brings up the nature versus nurture thing. Yeah, I mean, it's - In the single digits, you're behaving like this? From all the reports, it seems like Rob and Michelle did everything humanly possible to try to help their kid. You know, our mutual friend, Geraldo, he always says, you're only as happy as your unhappiest child. And now being the father of three, you know, I get it. Ariana woke me up two mornings ago at 5 a.m. telling me, Daddy, I love you. Now I have to throw up. And, you know, it broke my heart.

45:52It's a girl. She's like, Daddy, hold my hair. So you got her a pony. You got her another pony. I'm going to the farm. What's the matter with you? But, I mean, it seems like they've done every – I mean, Rob Reiner made a film with his son to try to pull him out of this. And I know this sounds weird, but I didn't know the reporting you just said about the beds and getting this cut, their throats cut in their bed. Like, I hope they didn't know what happened. I was imagining like some kind of real fight scene where Rob Ryan is trying to protect his wife and something much more, you know, hand to hand combat.

46:28That could still manifest. You know, we don't know. These early reports are often wrong, i.e. the Billy Bush thing yesterday, with all due respect to my friend Billy. Yeah, I get it. And that's why I always tell people, go slow on these. Actually, the Megyn Kelly line that told me years ago on Kelly's Court, off air before we were not, she goes, Arthur, this is initial reporting. Don't get over your skis. I'm like, I don't know what that means. I don't ski, but okay, I think I figured it out. So folks should know, just going back to the insanity defense, how rarely it's used, how rarely it's successful.

46:57And I had a young woman who her dad died in the course of a fight and she dismembered his private part because he had been raping her. And I was going to use the insanity defense until I found out, at least in New York, you are incarcerated for a longer period of time. if you are found not guilty by reason of insanity, basically, that if you're found guilty of murder and you get 25 to life. So it doesn't really make a lot of sense. But Megan, I had a case. Now, thank God mom and dad didn't die. But it was a young man around the same age. Maybe he was a little younger. He was in his mid-20s. And they prohibited him from seeing his girlfriend.

47:36The family was Asian and she was, I believe, Caucasian. And they were very strict. and they said, no, you can't date her anymore. The kid came home while the parents were in bed. That's what's bugging me out a little bit here, hearing this. And he took one of those like barbecue forks, the two, it just has two prongs on it. And he went to town on his parents. Now, thank God they lived. But here's the punchline. They didn't want him prosecuted. Now he was prosecuted. I was able to get him a plea. This was a while ago, but it was in the teens of years. But they were very uncooperative. And, you know, there was a prosecutor who's got – he's sitting there with the parents, who were the victims, begging not to prosecute him at all.

48:20And he wants to give him 25 to life. And so, you know, well, he couldn't give him 25 to life, but he could have given him 25 on the straight-up assault one. And so they kind of split the difference and gave the kid, like, I don't know if it was 12 or 14 years in prison. So, you know, the question people ask is like, what is what is Nick brother and sister, you know, want to see happen here? Who hired this fantastic, expensive, presumably lawyer? Yeah. Who's paying for him? But, you know, Meg, if you look at the online version this morning of the Wall Street Journal, there is a family photo of Rob, Michelle and their children.

48:59And everyone's smiling except Nick. Nick looks scary in this particular family photos. In all the pictures. Yeah, it's a little, it's a little, this case, my guy. You can see it. You can see the deep unhappiness, depression, and possible mental defect in almost all the family photos. There's so much more to discuss, including I actually have a suspicion about where the defense is gonna go. I don't think it's insanity either. Can I throw in - I'll tell you what I think it is and why I think - Can I throw in one quick comment? Wait, you can, but you have to - Sorry. No, stand by. Okay. Quick break.

49:31You get the first comment after break. We'll be right back with Arthur Idalla and Matt Murphy after this quick break. MK True Crime stars. Let's be honest. America can still be a dangerous place and you cannot afford to wait for help. Sure, you could use a firearm, but in today's America, defending yourself with deadly force could have legal consequences. According to FBI data, 99.9 % of all altercations do not require lethal force. And that's exactly why so many are turning to Berna. Berna is proudly American, hand-assembled in Fort Wayne, Indiana. These less lethal self-defense launchers are trusted by hundreds of government agencies, law enforcement departments, and private security companies.

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50:48MK True Crime contributors Arthur Idala and Matt Murphy are back with me now to actual real live trial attorneys. Arthur's been on both sides, prosecutor and defense. Matt has spent his life putting bad people in jail. So he wins the morality game. Just kidding. Just kidding. There's an important need for defense attorneys. You bet your bottom dollar, young lady. We're the ones who keep these prosecutors in line. And I'm doing some - That's right, I know. And standing up for the constitution, I know you're now doing some limited, some defense. Okay, Matt, you were going to say before the break, Yeah, look, there's a really interesting interview with Reiner about Charlie Kirk.

51:33And it's, you know, he's asked about that. And he's known for— With Rob Reiner, I'm sorry. I keep thinking Carl. That's okay. It shows how old I am. I know. Well, I mean, there's a lineage. Yeah. Yeah. So there's a really interesting interview with Rob Reiner where he's asked about Charlie Kirk. And it is it's something I think everybody should should Google and see because he he makes a really good point of saying this is a human being. Nobody should die like that. Nobody should die for their political beliefs. Like it is it's kind of thing that everybody should listen to. And by the way, for whoever wrote that Washington Post article, I haven't seen anything where Rob Reiner, it's beloved Rob Reiner, you know, cultural icon Rob Reiner.

52:16I haven't seen any anywhere has he been described as left wing activist, even though he embraced it. Oh, my God. Matt, can I tell you this morning I listened to The New York Times, The Daily Podcast, which I have to say I enjoyed because they played a lot of clips from Rob's movies. But they also then said, like, he was just a happy guy. He was just so happy and joyful. OK, you've gone too far because the way the right wing experienced Rob Reiner over the last 10 years was him being as nasty as humanly possible against MAGA and Donald Trump. So it's fine. We don't have to go into the politics of Rob Reiner.

52:53We haven't since he's been murdered. But The New York Times cannot get away with. He was just universally happy and sweet and joyful. No, there was actually a very toxic core inside of him when it came to politics. Go ahead. Sorry for the intro. Yeah, no, no, you're absolutely right. But at the end of the day, he's a human being and he is motivated by what he believed to be right. Just like we all have friends, or at least we used to all have friends on various sides of this debate, right? And he's a human being and he was doing what he thought was right, even if he disagreed with him. And so was Charlie Kirk.

53:26And he pointed that out. So it's just, you know, when you look down and you go through one of these scenes and you look down and you see somebody who's dead, their politics don't matter and they shouldn't matter. And it's like we can't go through this filter or this dehumanizing description like we saw in the Washington Post. Matt, I'm sorry to interrupt you. But, you know, Meg, I am like a little – I don't like the fact that people keep comparing these two murders. They're so different. I mean they are so – I totally agree. It's so different. Charlie Kirk got killed by a stranger who didn't like what he was saying, which is as anti-American as you can imagine.

54:06And Rob Reiner agrees with that. So that's one issue that needs to be addressed in the United States of America. It's a form of terrorism. Correct. Rob Reiner and his kid and his wife got killed by another issue, two issues really that we need to address, which is mental health and drug addiction. And, you know, I mean, because obviously there was drugs involved. But it seems like talking what you just reported about when he was 11 years old, the kid was out of control. I mean, those are those are issues that need to be addressed as well. But they're very, very different things. And people keep comparing the two.

54:39And I'm like, it's apples and oranges. It's just that. Yes, the two homicides. Very true. So different. But at the same time, at the end of the day, what I'm guessing it's a give you my guess. Yeah, it's a where they're going to take the defense. Yeah, no, it's just gonna say because we looked at some of these cases. in which they raised criminal insanity. The one that jumped out at me was Richard Chase, who they called the Vampire of Sacramento in 1979. He killed six people between 77 and 78 in Sacramento. They were all chosen at random. One was a pregnant woman. He drank her blood after he mixed it with yogurt.

55:16He had a delusional belief he needed to consume the blood of other beings to replenish his own supply. He'd been treated at psychiatric hospitals before the murders many times. He was at one hospital after having injected rabbit's blood into his veins. He'd been diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic. He was on psychotropic drugs. They tried to use the insanity defense. It failed. It failed in that case. So it's not going to work for Nick Reiner. It's just not. But here's what I think. And this is like out of left field prediction. And it's just because the Menendez case is on my mind because that's also California.

55:50And this is what triggered it. In no way am I impugning Rob Reiner, nor do I believe there's anything untoward. I think he seems by all accounts, a loving father and an appropriate father. But on this same Daily Mail report we were quoting from, one actor who was on the set of Being Charlie, he's a cast member, Eric Oud, 45, told the Daily Mail, he found the dynamic between Rob and his son, Nick, troubling. They were fighting. They were arguing with each other while they were on the set. They did point out that this guy's scenes were ultimately cut from the film. Okay. Maybe he's got an axe to grind.

56:21Quote, they were kissing each other on the lips, which was weird. They bickered or they were bickering. They were going off on each other on set. It wasn't comfortable. There was definitely hostility there. So my question is, is there a likelihood Nick Reiner pulls a card from the Menendez defense? We're in California. It's going to be a California jury and says he was molesting me my whole life. That's why I was so messed up from the time I was 10. That's why I got hooked on drugs. There's no way of disproving that and plays the sympathy card with a California jury about why from a very young age, he was all messed up, Matt.

57:05Well, he might. But remember, until recently, until, again, George Gascon became the DA, and our friend Mark Ergold got a hold of that case. They were convicted. And a California jury rejected all that. And it was convicted. But the California juries are not what they used to be. No, that's true. But there's a blistering opinion affirming the conviction of both those guys authored of all places by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals that anybody who's interested in this, you can find it online. And it just it just destroys the defense. And every word of it is, I think, correct. So Alan can run with that.

57:43I think that you're going to hit headwinds because, remember, we have all these other all these other kids in the family. And look, addiction is one of those things. It touches almost every American family. But there is a huge difference, I think, in the minds of certainly prosecutors and judges and appellate courts, but also jurors between somebody who's suffering from organic mental illness, where, for lack of a better term, it's not really their fault, even if they're self-medicating with drugs, and the spoiled kind of entitled, you know, young rich guy who has a problem with daddy. And I think everything that I'm reading on this, it seems like the evidence is stacking up more and more in that direction.

58:25There was an interview I saw yesterday with Nick Reiner where he describes himself as an entitled rich white kid. And I think it was during the promotion of that movie. And there's an interview that they did promoting that where you can kind of see some of that dynamic between Nick and Rob Reiner. And it's almost hard to watch, especially in retrospect. So it's this is a horrible case. But thankfully, Gascon is out. We've got Nathan Hockman. And in this case, it's going to be handled the right way, wherever it goes, whatever happens. Go ahead, Arthur. Well, the only thing that is, you know, Megan was just talking about this.

59:03Witnesses saying when he was 11 years old, he was out of control. And that, you know, you know, I don't think at 11, you know, you're an entitled rich kid living in the most exclusive neighborhood on the planet. it. So I, you know, and then I just think there were some indications before his drug use that he had, you know. Definitely. That's they brought the yoga instructor in for him when he was 10 to try to bring calm into his life because he was they were already seeing the problems. And that goes back to what you're saying, Meg, about nature or nurture. You know, there are some I mean, look, I do believe people are born with a certain disposition and then it can be pointed in one direction or another.

59:46I mean, I will tell you this, your friend Alan, if he stands at a podium and says, you know, our defense is going to be that Rob Reiner was sexually assaulting his son, you know, that's not going to fly. Yeah, I agree. Wait, it did fly. It flew. It flew like a bird in the Casey Anthony case. where jose bias got up there in opening statements and blamed george the the dad for allegedly molesting casey the 20 wait let me finish when the mother of little kaylee he he said he molested her and then he said oh also he helped cover up the baby's drowning he never came back to it he never proved it was barred from being used in closing argument because he didn't introduce any proof in it on it and she was acquitted but my point of that he was he wasn't rob reiner i mean rob reiner for those of us old enough i mean he's still meathead rob reiner is quoted as saying if despite all my movies and all the success in life even if i won the noble peace prize the headline would be meathead won the noble peace prize so i mean he's a household fixture to many of us what do you mean and the defense lawyer is gonna be like that doesn't prove anything about what happened behind closed doors.

1:00:59The defense lawyers constantly, they throw anything at the kitchen sink to try to make it stick because it's a potential death penalty case. There's two other children and three, actually, other children involved here who seem to have very normal upbringing. You know, the young woman who I was talking about earlier who killed her father, she had a sister who testified and said, yeah, he was molesting my sister and he was molesting me too. Here, I don't think that's - Casey Anthony did not have any other witness come and say, like, he threw it out in opening. The horse left the barn and the jury was tainted on it.

1:01:36I'm just saying, like, this is going to be a desperation defense because if that stuff about the hotel room is true, this guy's up the creek without a paddle mat. And defense lawyers like Alan Jackson, right? They don't go down not swinging. They swing for the fences. That's why they get hired. Well, I'll throw another one out there for you. That video that we saw of him walking outside the gas station, that's an area of Brentwood that is very close to a restaurant that we've all heard of called Mezzaluna. Remember that? You talk about crazy LA juries. Right. That's about a couple hundred yards down the road, and there's some great restaurants in there now.

1:02:14I mean, that's basically just a little north of my part of town. I know that area very well. Rolta Nona is half moon. Metza Luna. Metza means half. Luna means moon. Just, I mean, I know. There is that one half of Megyn Kelly, even though she was introduced the other day as a great Irish-American. I'm like, do you not know who Nona is? But anyway. I actually corrected somebody just the other day to say, I am part Italian. Just slow your word because they were ripping on Italians too. I can be insulted on many fronts. Go ahead, Matt. I'm sorry. Kate, look, and Arthur knows this as well as I do, trial work is an art form, Megan, and you've seen that a million times too.

1:02:51And the Casey Anthony case is a different part of the country, but they were, in my view, the prosecution was outclassed, kind of like the prosecution in the Karen Reed case. They were just outclassed. They had good evidence, but they were outclassed by the talent of the defense lawyer. and you know this is one where again this comes back to the district attorney of la he's and i don't know who it is yet i i'm sure i'll know who they are but they from a buddy of mine i talked to yesterday who's been a career prosecutor in that office he he said he didn't want to say who it was but they're very very good and um look i i've got confidence clark was good she was really good ah you know megan i agree with almost everything you say most of the time i'm going to go out.

1:03:34I don't want to hear and disagree with you that I met her recently. She's a lovely woman. I tried a case against Christopher Darden. I did a murder case against him when he was a defense lawyer. Nice man. OJ was no fluke. That case was the only book worth reading on OJ guys is a book written by Vincent Bugliosi called Outrage, where he takes the prosecution, the task that was prosecutorial incompetence from the first minute. And I don't see, I don't think that's going to happen here okay mistakes were made can i ask a question about that your system is it in the realm of possibilities that they indict him on uh on a death penalty charge and then they say look if you you know if you want we'll we'll give you the plea to life without parole and you know like we just saw um in car burger however you say his name i mean is that something that happens in in that jurisdiction that's a great that's a that's a great question arthur and a lot of people wonder about that that don't do cases in either even professionals don't do cases in capital case jurisdictions that have a death penalty?

1:04:37The answer is no. It's unethical to do that because it's known as extracting a plea. You plead what you prove and you go in and you prove what you pled. That's the philosophy. And you don't file a death penalty case in the hope you're going to get a plea. That was my problem with what they did in the Brian Kogberger case because that's really what it looked like there was no change in the evidence and then he comes in for a plea after the they've done everything right so so a lot of people think that um correctly uh you see that on tv that happens all the time i mean i was in court yesterday right it's a murder two case he's facing 25 to life and what people understand is the life part is the problem so you you get at 22 years you go in front of the parole board if you don't get parole you got to wait two years to 24, 26, 28, and you can pay for the rest of your life.

1:05:29We got it. This is only mildly interesting, so I want to get to the next point. All right. Let's keep going. Let's keep going. Okay, I have a question I need to ask, which is, we mentioned earlier, what about the money situation? Because Nick doesn't have any by all reports, but Rob and Michelle had a lot. I didn't realize until listening to the Daily this morning that, did you know that Castle Rock was Rob Reiner's too? He created that movie company that backed Seinfeld among others, that produced Seinfeld among others. I mean, so there's a lot of money in the Reiner estate. He's got three other children, but the question is whether any dispensation, disbursement would ever be made to Nick so he could pay for a lawyer by the estate.

1:06:14I mean, we don't know how the will was written, but Matt, how would it normally work in California where one of the people who would potentially, potentially be inheriting is the one who caused the murders, allegedly the death. The only thing I can think of, Megan, is that he had some sort of a trust that he had access to a trust. I mean, the guy was essentially I mean, he wasn't working. He wasn't a functional human being because of all of his addiction. So I don't know. But I think we all have that that question. Alan Jackson is, as Arthur correctly pointed out, he is top drawers, a messy talent, but he is also very expensive, as the best defense lawyers are.

1:06:50Um, so that's, uh, he, they got money from somewhere. I can't imagine it's coming from his siblings. So the only thing I can think of in California, you can set up a trust that he might have access to. Is there any way Alan Jackson would do it for free for the notoriety? No, no, he's, he's already got all the notoriety in the world. Um, uh, and he's well-known in LA and he's got a thriving practice and yeah, the answer there's no, he's, he's being paid and he didn't tell me this. but I guarantee he's being paid a lot. And you know, and Megan, and this is not a case as the Fed's turn, you're going to come out, you know, kind of looking at good, really under any scenario because of who the, what the crime is, how it was committed, who was committed against, you know, this is really, you're going to be wearing the black cowboy hat, not the white cowboy hat, not the man.

1:07:40And he may lose. Yeah. He probably will lose. Likely to lose. But I just feel like there's not going to be, I have my doubts about a trust because even though he's 32, and I think most like trusts from rich people to their children kick in before age 32, not when they're a drug addict. They were too aware of and like worried about his drug addiction, I think, to have given him some lucrative trust. I feel like they probably controlled those purse strings. They had him living on their compound in a guest house. So I think that's another way of trying to control this very problematic child. so i really wonder where like i don't i don't i i'd actually i guess it's a question for a trust and estates lawyer but also if the estate was to be divided because most people say it should all go to my spouse but if my spouse is also dead it should be dispersed equally amongst my children he's one of the four children unless you've made a special provision that not this one but it would take years and like whether he gets something is up to somebody else like a trustee or the other kids.

1:08:46But Meg, as you know, my bride is also my law partner. This is her area of expertise, surrogates law. These things don't happen quickly. Like, you know, even if everything is in order, it's not like it's triggered. You got to get death certificates. They have to be filed with the court. They have to be certified. Now, unless Alan is going to say, look, I'll roll the dice here that I am going to get paid a seven-figure number down the road when this kid gets his inheritance you know i think probably someone stepped up and said rob would want and michelle would want their son at least protected constitutionally and let me see if i can if i can help out and you never know it could be one of the siblings like you don't know megan these situations are so i'd be worried i'd be next i mean like the ire is clearly against the family i'm not saying he's coming out of prison anytime soon don't get me wrong but someone may say look let's get a lawyer and protect his constitutional rights and get it get him like a 1-900-1-800 lawyer 1-900 is a different thing that's i was thinking about with my voice permanently like this apparently starting a new business with a 1-900 line i think i could actually make real money um okay let's keep going because there's other There's other cases like we teased in the beginning.

1:10:08Can 24-year-old Benjamin Erickson sue anybody after being publicly identified as the Brown University shooter, a thing which is not true, according to the attorney general? So we did not say his name. We did not report. By the time we got to the story, they'd already released him saying, whoops, he's actually not the person of interest. It wasn't him. And the mayor, the moronic mayor of Providence is still saying, well, we don't know that, that he's been cleared. And then the AG is out there saying, oh, no, he's cleared. He's cleared. So they don't even have their message straight on this guy.

1:10:44But this guy was named by many media outlets. CNN and many others went down the list, but it's a very long list. And they all cited law enforcement sources. The media did not make up that. They didn't pull it out of a hat. They got it from cops who were leaking it to them. So the media, in my view, you guys, but you tell me they have a defense that this was not published. And maybe the guy will be a limited public figure. Like he wasn't a public figure before this, but he could be considered, quote, a limited public figure. You'll tell me what you think. But if you get that designation as like you're a limited public figure for like just this one story, then the burden to prove that someone has defamed you is much higher.

1:11:25and you'd have to be, you'd have to prove the actual malice standard that these outlets were, that they knew it was false or were reckless about the probability of falsity in reporting it, that they had actual malice in their hearts when they were reporting it, which was done reporting it by NBC News, CNN, New York Post, Washington Post, so many others. So you tell me, does this guy have a defamation lawsuit against anybody? Arthur, you wanna go first? Yeah, I don't think so. I've handled a lot of these now. Megan, you're very well versed on the law because you just laid it all out there. I don't think they're going to be able to prove this the way a wrestler got Gawker knocked off the planet Earth by saying, you know, you knew you were making things up.

1:12:11You were only doing it to sell newspapers. The only purpose was to hurt me. And you knew that it was false. So I don't think it rises to that level that he that he would be successful in front of a jury as long as they they could show the steps of what led to him, why they had a reasonable cause to believe it may have been him. I think ultimately some of the ballistics didn't match. And that's what was one of the real straw that broke the camel's back that said, no, no, we got the wrong guy. Well, reportedly, he also said he had been in the hotel room the entire time. And again, that is what was reported.

1:12:52Don't know for sure that that's what he said. But if so, that would be verifiable with hotel videotape, with possibly key card records. It takes a little while. Some hotels would know. But it takes a little while to get that stuff. I don't know. If you're the FBI, does it take that? Why the hell do you have the tapes on the front door of your hotel if not to show the FBI when there's been a mass shooting down the road? Right. But when I say a little while, I don't mean weeks, but, you know, you've got to figure out, OK, when when did he check in? When did he check out? How many cameras are there?

1:13:21Which cameras are we to look through? You know, it takes hours. I'm not saying it takes days, but it takes it probably takes 12 hours. Well, and he was in custody, I think, for 18 hours custody. I said like he was a person of interest for 18 hours as they questioned him. I don't know, Matt. You know, I made the case that the media has a defense, right? Like it was told to them by law enforcement, but that was also the case in Atlanta with the Olympics in the 1990s and Richard Jewell, who many people still think was the Olympic bomber. And he wasn't. Hold on a second. We had we pulled a couple of headlines, OK, from the time Atlantic Journal Constitution.

1:14:05They're the ones who like blew the lid off of him allegedly being the suspect. This woman, Kathy Scruggs, said he was the guy. Remember, because Richard Jewell was the one, if memory serves, who found the bomb and was a hero. And then a few days later, she dropped a story in the Atlanta Journal Constitution saying, oh, no, he was the bomber and completely ruined this guy's life. The title of the initial story, FBI suspects hero guard may have planted bomb. Body of the story that followed. The security guard who first alerted police to the pipe bomb that exploded in Centennial Olympic Park is the focus of the federal investigation into the incident that resulted in two deaths and injured more than 100.

1:14:42Richard Jewell, 33, a former law enforcement officer, fits the profile of the lone bomber. This profile generally includes a frustrated white man who is a former police officer, member of the military or police wannabe who seeks to become a hero. There was a column by Dave Kindred implying a comparison between Jewell and a convicted murderer. the New York Post had on its front cover Saint or Savage with a photo of him separate article titled Who Checked Rambo Crossing Guard's Record he was a fat failed former sheriff's deputy who spent most of his working days as a school crossing guard NBC News same Brokaw said in a news broadcast the speculation is that the FBI is close to making the case in their language they probably have enough to arrest him Jewel right now probably enough to prosecute him but you always want to have enough to convict him as well there are still some holes in the case and guess what happened um lots of settlements that's what happened uh let's see he did they actually call him fat they called him a fat they called him fat yeah that was 96 fat fat failed former sheriff's deputy well that's a new york post they do that today richard jewell yes they would the post god love them they haven't they haven't gone pc richard jewell versus nbc The lawsuit arose from the comments made by Tom Brokaw that I just read.

1:16:02NBC stood by its story, but later agreed to a reported settlement of$500 ,000. Richard Jewell versus CNN. Terms of the settlement confidential. CNN maintained that it acted properly, but it did pay out. And then let's see. I don't know if he must have sued the Atlantic Journal Constitution, but it is. It's right there. Where is it? Is there a movie about this? There is. No. There is. There was a movie about him being falsely accused. Oh, it was the only major news organization that refused to settle. The newspaper fought the lawsuit for years, arguing its reporting that Jewell was a suspect was substantially true at the time of publication.

1:16:45The case went all the way to the Georgia Court of Appeals, which eventually ruled in the paper's favor in 2001, concluding the articles were accurate at the time they were published. and they did indeed find that Juul was a limited purpose public figure, Matt. So where do you come down on it? There's a really interesting case in California, Megan, called Rothman v. Jackson, which is the Michael Jackson case where essentially when you are a government entity, you have really good immunity protections and litigant privilege until you step outside that role. I don't think this case is every case is unique and different.

1:17:19I think it's going to be tough against these newspapers because they're just covering information that they got from a source. The problem is the county and the state of Rhode Island because that shouldn't be happening. And shame on whoever it is that's leaking that. That should never happen. And that is one small piece of what has very much appeared to be a hugely incompetent investigation so far on this. And I always want to give the benefit of the doubt. Murder cases sometimes take a long time to come around. But these press conferences, I've never seen anything quite like this. They're demonstrating such a lack of command of the facts.

1:17:58And I've stood on that stage more times than I can count with an elected official, as we've described a case. I've never seen a lack of preparation this bad. And that goes from the professor or the president of Brown University to the questions that they know basic facts. So the idea that somebody in that shop is incorrectly jumping the gun and leaking information about somebody who may be innocent is awful. And I think that there's a better lawsuit against against the government on this than than the news outlets that have been reporting on it. That's that's my thought. in the in the jewel case they tried that they but they they could not figure out i guess there were many many fbi agents who had been you know privy to the information and they could never figure out who among them uh leaked richard jewel's name and the reporter scruggs for the atlanta journal constitution would not divulge it sadly she died i think at 42 years old i don't die shortly yeah into her life but in any event i don't think this is the fbi finding who the law enforcement guy is is a much bigger challenge.

1:19:01You know, Megan, no, from a very practical point of view, if you're the CEO of NBC News and CNN, and then what was the outlet that fought it all the way to the Georgia? AJC. Okay, so from a financial point of view, I am sure the$500 ,000 that NBC paid was a heck of a lot less than the legal bills were for the other entity. I know it's a precedent setting thing, but you fight a case all the way up to that court over, It started in 96. It ended in 2001. That is very, very, very expensive. And that's what's called nuisance. And they didn't want Tom Brokaw to sit for a depo either. Right. So like that, that would be another piece for the television stations that got sued like NBC, that he was their main anchor.

1:19:46And I'm sure the CNN anchor didn't want to sit for a depo in this case either. Here's before we go, Matt, to your point, here's Peter Narona. He is the AG. And he was getting asked questions about, there was reporting yesterday and today all over the internet about whether this one person who's at Brown was potentially a person of interest. Internet sleuths are trying to come up with names right now. And they've been asking at these pressers, is this person on your list? Have you looked into this? And watch this exchange here in SOT 6. I think this is an area where caution is really necessary.

1:20:30There are lots of reasons why a page might be taken down, particularly if there's chatter out there about words that were spoken. It's easy to jump from someone saying words that were spoken to what those words are to a particular name that reflects a motive targeting a particular person. That's a really dangerous road to go down. Really dangerous. If that name meant anything to this investigation, we would be out looking for that person. We would let you know we were looking for that person. You know, again, I think it's just a really dangerous road to go down. He loves the dangerous road. I'm going to give you one more soundbite from this guy in Sot7, because, again, there are two other pieces in the news that they haven't confirmed.

1:21:15One is that the vice president of the College of Republicans who was shot, Ella Cole, that she was targeted, Ella Cook, that she was targeted, which would obviously people are asking in the wake of Charlie whether that she was the main target there. Many other people were shot, but that's a question. And secondly, there's a question about what the shooter yelled, because everyone in that classroom says he yelled something, but no one is telling us what he yelled. All these law enforcement types are saying is, we don't know, like people are unclear. And we heard from the TA who was there conducting the review class in advance of the exam with the students.

1:21:57He didn't understand what the guy had yelled and that none of the students he spoke to understood what the guy had yelled. But there are some claiming it was Allahu Akbar, totally unconfirmed at this point. That, too, would be relevant because it would imply a motive, quite obviously. And here was his, I think, reference to those issues in Sot7. There is no information that the investigative team has about motive. Zero. Zero. There's nothing about, even if taking at face value what one or two witnesses may have said about what something was said. okay and there are many witnesses that say nothing was said there's nothing about what we know was perhaps said that indicates any kind of motive that is related at all to ethnicity or um or political outlook or culture there's nothing at all that we know right now about that and i think that that is a dangerous road to go down okay here's the problem matt murphy we don't believe him and we don't trust him.

1:23:02And these are all far left libs who have an agenda of their own. And I honestly, I don't believe this guy. If some of those witnesses said that the guy yelled Allahu Akbar, I don't think he'd tell us. I don't trust him. He doesn't understand what he's doing. That seems clear to me. He doesn't, he's not on the same page as his mayor. The police chief too inspires no confidence. And can we just spend two seconds on the weird sign language lady? She's over the top and she's like too needy of attention. Bring it in. Keep it small. It doesn't have to be so huge. You're not the star of the show. They constantly do this.

1:23:34Don't the hearing impaired have closed captions like everybody else? Why do you need this? Like, it's to me, it's a virtue signal. I'm telling you, it's like yet another reason people are watching this. Like, OK, I know who these people are. Go ahead. No, you're exactly right. They're undermining the public's confidence in the integrity of this investigation. By the way, this reminds me of Fast Times at Ridgemont High with Mr. Hand and Jeff Spicoli. If I'm here and you're here, doesn't that mean this is our time? If witnesses heard him yell something, you don't get to get up and say there's zero evidence of motive.

1:24:05Like, there is evidence. That's evidence that they heard something. Now, I'm a firm believer in the integrity of the investigation moving forward, not releasing information. I have no problem with any of that. But if they took all this stuff down to protect one guy and then they're leaking information about another guy that may be innocent, that's not fair. But then don't have a frigging press conference, guys. If you can't release the information or address that in a competent way where you're going to undermine the integrity and the public's confidence in what you're doing, don't have the frigging press conference or do a professional one like we saw with Nathan Hockman where he came in.

1:24:40He announced the charges. They took like three questions. They didn't really answer anything. They stayed well within the lines, the ethical rules, and then it was done. You watch that and it's like, OK, that's a bunch of pros that know what they're doing, that are in charge. And I have confidence in where that investigation is going. This is Keystone Cops. And again, I want to give the benefit of the doubt to them. But I watch these things and I can't. And you're right. In the land of COVID and iPhones, isn't there some way and not a hack on anybody who's hearing impaired at all. But if they don't have if there's a reporter in there that is hearing impaired, it makes perfect sense.

1:25:13But it is disturbing. It is distracting. You're trying to listen. And it's just it appears to me that this whole thing is amateur hour. And that is disturbing because you have a killer on the loose. Wow, you guys are rough. And they're telling Providence residents to send their little kids to school this week because there's no threat. They don't know that. The mayor keeps saying that there's a killer on the loose. We have no idea whether he has left Providence or whether the motive is to kill a bunch of young people. Like there's zero chance I'd be sending my children to school in Providence, Rhode Island this week.

1:25:49It just yet again, it's this like woke mayor who wants to pretend it's all rainbows and unicorns. Meanwhile, two people are dead and nearly 10 others are still fighting for their lives, Arthur. No, I mean, what you just said about sending your kids to school and them saying there's no threat. I mean, I don't know how you could say that. Right. You got a killer on going into schools and killing people, number one. Number two, I mean, to show you that, forget my objectivity. My dear friend who just retired as the chief of the NYPD, John Schell, he was the chief uniformed officer. He called me. He goes, I feel like I want to go up there and help them.

1:26:27He goes, these press conferences are train wrecks. He goes, nobody, there's no consistency. Nobody knows what they're saying and what they're doing. He goes, it's really, really bad. But he was saying it not to be critical, but to be helpful. So I agree with you. One other term, again, from Megyn Kelly, I'm learning a lot in this episode. Someone gave me a pin last week that just said, be kind. So I went to this holiday party and I wore it. And Diana in my office goes, what the hell is that? I go, I don't know. Someone gave it to me. She goes, that's virtue signaling. I go, what the hell is that?

1:27:00Right on, Diana. I go, what the hell does that mean? What is virtue signaling? It means like, oh, let me not know that term. You're kind. That's it's the same as the liberal lawn sign in this house. We believe in kindness, tolerance, none of which they actually believe. None. I got it. Two doors down. I got the liberal lawn sign. And then next to them has a Trump. Don't put on a pin. Next to them, there was a Trump bumper sticker. The other one has your sign. And I'm the one who's shoveling both of their sidewalks to keep the peace. Don't put on a pin. Don't put on a pin with any message. It's just a bad idea.

1:27:34Just steer clear of the pins. I got to go. I love you guys, but I got a middle of honor winner here. So goodbye. It's great to see you both. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas to you too. All right, guys. You bet. Go to mktruecrime.com and you can subscribe to the show, their show, however you want. You can watch it on YouTube. You can take it in via podcast. And truly, it's a hit. They take on all the latest cases. And as you heard, like with true trial lawyers' minds, we'll dissect it for you in a way you will not hear anyplace else. Up next, Dakota Meyer. Do you know that he is the first man to receive the Medal of Honor as a living recipient since 1973?

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1:29:32Last night, President Trump escalating pressure on Venezuela, announcing a total blockade of all sanctioned oil tankers entering or leaving the country and declaring President Maduro's regime a foreign terrorist organization. It's the very latest different way President Trump and his Pentagon have approached the military and foreign policy. My next guest, Dakota Meyer, made headlines earlier this year for re-enlisting in the U.S. Marine Corps Reserve, returning to service after 15 years out of uniform. Dakota is best known for his heroic actions during the Battle of Ganjgal on September 8, 2009, in Afghanistan's Kunar province.

1:30:11As a 21-year-old corporal, Meyer repeatedly drove into an ambush under heavy enemy fire to rescue his wounded brothers and recover fallen service members, actions that saved 36 lives, including 13 Americans and 23 Afghan personnel, earning him the Medal of Honor in 2011. He is now preparing to head back to training camp. Dakota, so great to have you back. you want back in. Yes. Well, there's quite a few of us, but I was the first to receive it for the Marines, uh, since the Vietnam war, but yeah, I mean, I went back in some of the guys have been serving, but, um, yeah, I think I'm the, I think I am the only one that's currently serving.

1:30:55Uh, I do think that, I don't know. It's, it's awesome though. It's been so awesome going back in. I mean, I just felt like I have more to give and I mean, gosh, it's like, you know, I do think that we need it right now as well. Wow. But wait, now how old are you? I knew that was coming. Um, you're still relatively young. No, I'm not, not compared to these kids, you know, like I'm, I'm 37. Uh, you know, I'm, I'm old enough. Like these kids love to point out to me, I was in some training over the summer and they love to point out to me that I was old enough. I was older than their mom. So, you know, Yeah.

1:31:30Wait, so it still sounds very young to me, but so is there an age limit on when you can re-enlist in the reserves? No, you know, like I, uh, what happened was, is I was speaking to these Marines. Like I do quite a bit. I go around and I love to talk to, to leadership, to, um, these, you know, NCOs, which is kind of like our mid-level leaders inside of the military. And I was speaking to this group and this kid stood up to me and he goes, you know, knowing what, you know, I'm kind of at this point of reenlistment. And he said, you know, you know, knowing what, you know, like I have a family, you have a family, like, is it still worth serving?

1:32:04And I was like, absolutely. And I could just tell that, that, that probably didn't come off. Right. And I felt terrible about it because I'm telling them that it's worth them serving is I'm going to go home and I'm not having to meet any standards. I'm not having, my family's not having to sacrifice of what this country's asking. And I felt like it was one of the most unbecoming things that I had said. And so I looked at him and I said, you know what? You know what? Like, I'm so glad this question got asked. I'm going to walk out of here and I'm going to do everything I can to come back in the Marine Corps because it's not right for me to stand out here and tell you, yes, it's worth serving.

1:32:37Yes, it matters. And all of this is I'm going home and not having to sacrifice anything that you are. And I'm asking your family to. So I don't think it's right. And I'm going to make this right. And I'm going to show you how much I believe in serving. And so I did that. I walked away, you know, 18 months later, uh, jumping through all the hoops and, uh, all that. Yeah. Like I, I didn't have to get an age waiver or anything like that. Um, you know, I was just able to reenlist and I was able to come back in and continue my service. And, uh, yeah, I mean, and in the right side of it. Okay. Now, um, you will forgive me for asking you this because we've talked about this before and I know you're, I know how you are in this.

1:33:11There was a period at which it's fair to say you had let your tight physique as a Marine go. We talked about when you were awarded the Medal of Honor by President Obama and you were actually drunk in the moment and not in your peak shape. Actually, we'll just show it because it's quite a moment. This is a video of it. Yeah, back in 2011. Hold on. Let's watch it. Stand by. Here he is. You're standing there. You cannot tell that you're drunk, but you told me that you were and you are not at your most fit, but I know from our behind the scenes conversations, you have been getting fit. You've been working out like a fee.

1:33:51So do you feel that you can live up to the Pete Hegseth, no fat people mandate in the modern day military? I mean, absolutely. Look, I have to meet all the standards, you know, going back in the first thing I, one of the first things I had to do was meet the physical fitness standards. You know, I will say this while a lot of the other branches possibly have let the standards go. The one thing that the United States Marine Corps does is it holds standards pretty well. I mean, we usually set the standards. The Marine Corps usually sets the standards and holds the standards to a level that none of the other branches do.

1:34:23And I will say that confidently. And so, yeah, I mean, coming back in, like I've had to meet all the standards that everybody else did. Just literally two weeks ago, I had to meet the bi-angual fitness standard, you know, the fitness standard, the combat fitness test. I got height and weight. I got taped. I got all of it. So I'm meeting, I'm meeting my good friend Pete's standards. Nice. Okay, good. Uh, I, I say this judging from the comfort of my studio where it's been literally a year since I've done anything meaningfully aerobic. So no judgment whatsoever. In fact, I'd like to know what that test is so I could see if I could pass it.

1:35:00Um, okay, let's keep going. Cause there's been, yeah, go, you go. I'll come to you and we'll run it. Well, what do I have to do? What are my goals? physical fitness test to get a hundred at, at, at, but my age, um, it's a, uh, three mile run, uh, 18 minutes is perfect. And then you go into pull-ups, uh, 21 pull-ups, 24, the younger kids have to do 24, but at my age, I get to do 21, uh, dead hang pull-ups. And then we do a three minute and 45 second plank, which is the physical fitness test, the combat fitness test. Okay. I can do that. I can do the plank. Okay. I certainly can't do a pull-up. I can't even do one pull-up and a dead hang pull-up.

1:35:40I mean, in no world, do the way I know where this is a controversy, but do the women have to do all that too? You know, I, I don't, I don't know. Like, you know, this is, this has been another dynamic that I, you know, I don't know. I don't know what the standards are for, for the female side of it. I've never had to beat them. Um, so I don't know. And so I, I, I, I would, I mean, I think Pete said months ago, we're, we're not changing. We're not having two standards for men and women. Like if you want to be a Marine, you're going to have to do what the men do as the women, which I'm fine with.

1:36:05I mean, there are some women who can do it. There are some real badasses who work on their upper body strength. I just happen to have none. So I'm not on the list, but I'm going to work on that three, 3.5 miles in 18 minutes. That seems like something I could potentially do. Okay. Three miles in 18 minutes. And I can definitely do a plank for three minutes and 45 seconds that I can do. And then the pull-ups, no. Are there sit-up requirements? Those I could do. No, there used to be. There used to be a hundred crunches in under two minutes. How about push-ups? So, no, we don't. We don't do push-ups in the Marine Corps.

1:36:38Dang. Yeah. That's the hardest thing is the pull-ups. Okay, we got to keep going. Let's talk about the controversy involving the seditious six, as the Pentagon has labeled them, and this whole bit about how you shouldn't follow an illegal order. And it's ongoing now. The Pentagon, while it threatened Senator Mark Kelly with a possible inquiry, they said They'd opened one into whether he had committed some sort of breach of protocol in joining in this video and trying to advise troops to get ready to disobey an order from the commander in chief in case it's illegal, even though that's technically something that soldiers are already told.

1:37:17Where do you stand on it? How did you see that video and how did you see the Pentagon's response? Well, context matters. I think we're not talking about an isolated statement. We're talking about, you know, months of them. I mean, okay, well, yes, that right there was calculated. It was, it is like that statement. There's nothing wrong technically with that statement, but what the intentions are of that statement is exactly what cannot be ignored or denied. I mean, they have gone months of calling legal acts illegal, right? They're not the law. Like they make the laws, but they don't execute and they don't hold the laws.

1:37:58I mean, that's why we have a system that does it, right? And just because you don't like it doesn't mean that it's illegal. And just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean that it's illegal. And so I think that whenever you put this into context and take it out of just an isolated event, you have to add up everything else that comes with that. And so I think that, look, I mean, what they're doing is they're trying to undermine the institution. They're putting a responsibility all the way down. I mean, and if they truly believed that it was illegal, they would go through the legal routes and they wouldn't be making this a spectacle out on the news, right?

1:38:34Like the intentions are very clear. And so I think that their intentions are what we have got to take into consideration in this. And I think they have to be held accountable because let me say this. I would expect them to be held accountable. I mean, they're not even being held accountable. What happens whenever a court system is ruling what we are doing as far as the National Guard or all of this, that it is legal and they have called it illegal? You know, who do you blame whenever somebody stands up because they believe these trusted leaders are supposed to be trusted leaders? Yeah, who have sown doubt unjustifiably.

1:39:10Who becomes the problem? Is it the person that says it or the person that believed the person who was in the position, right? Like who becomes who's not accountable. And so I think it's a huge issue. Yeah. And it's not resolved yet. I started the segment by mentioning what's happening in Venezuela. Now Trump trying to stop these oil tankers from going to and from Venezuela. He's been hitting the drug boats to and from Venezuela. There have been many, many speculations about whether this is all really about regime change because technically Maduro lost an election, but he's just refusing to go.

1:39:44A lot of the more isolationist, right? They don't want to see us getting involved in Venezuela. They do not want to exchange war in the Middle East for war south of the border with Venezuela. Trump denies it's about regime change, though he doesn't deny it that forcefully. And Susie Wiles seems to have suggested that's what this is about in her interview with Vanity Fair. So how do you see the issue of what we're doing in Venezuela? Look, I think we're trying to make these things too complicated. my question to you is this is do you and this is really what i care about do you think any of those like are we going to argue back and forth do you think the boats that we are hitting and we are taking lethal action on do we think that they have drugs on them yeah i do then what does it matter i mean at any point like at what point are we going why do we like like look as long as we're doing, as long as we are protecting America, that is all that should matter.

1:40:39If those boats, if we believe that those boats have drugs on them and those drugs are coming to the United States of America, we should kill every one of them. It's that simple. I think we're trying to complex this. And I think that we are just getting into, A, we haven't gone into Venezuela. We haven't done anything. We're sitting here, we're making statements. We're drawing lines and we're putting America first. And so we're putting America's interests first, right? What is wrong with that? And I don't understand why we're arguing about this and what I am so sick and tired of. Cause look, I have a medal of honor because of this.

1:41:11I have a medal of honor because of specific statements, like the insinuations and the fear that someone like Mark Kelly is doing in the Democrats. And no, you know what? Take the Democrats out of it. Just leaders. I have a medal of honor for simple, for these simple facts. And this is why I'm so, so pissed off about it is because they put in, they send us over there. They're like, we don't make the decisions on who we're going to go fight and who we don't. But then they send us over there and they put in their idealistic rules of engagement. And then they put the fear of taking action into it.

1:41:44And they put all of these like seeds of doubt into the people who are having to live and die from the consequences of their decisions and their actions or their lack of, all for their political gain. and it's not the part of us dying and going and fighting for America is not what we get pissed about. It's the sheer fact that they send us over there and then they try to make us question our decisions. And then at any point that some of these policies and rules of engagement, like in my case, they want to protect the place and the other people more than they want to protect the troops that they sent over there to do the fighting.

1:42:21And so when you go back to this Venezuela thing, I think like everybody's trying to fill in a bunch of hypotheticals and let's sit back. Look, at the end of the day, like, do we all know somebody who is taking drugs and who has lost their life and whose family members are losing people and all this aspect? I mean, let's talk about it. I mean, like, I think that no matter what, if you are here to harm America, if you are here to hurt Americans, we should never put anything above that. And you are an enemy, period. Yeah. I don't know. That's how Trump sees it. Trump sees it. Yep. His critics say, well, I mean, his critics say a lot.

1:42:58They say there's no war declared. They say they can't give the death penalty for drug running. It's, it's not a capital offense, but they there's, I don't think there's any circumstance under which they would back these strikes. And Trump's DOJ has told him, and not just DOJ, but the lawyers in the military, the JAG Corps have told him he's totally within his rights as the commander in chief to do this, especially because he's now declared them a foreign terrorist organization. All right, Stand by. I've got to take a quick break and then we're going to come back for a few more minutes. Grand Canyon University, an affordable, private Christian university based in beautiful Phoenix, Arizona, is one of the largest universities in the country.

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1:44:56Back now with Dakota Meyer, find his work on Substack at the Bluff. That's the B-L-U-F. Dakota, there was a terrible attack over in Syria on our National Guards troops. And then there was an attack back at home on our National Guard's troops by this person who took them out. And so things do seem to be getting more dangerous. We had an ISIS attack on Jews in Australia. We had this ISIS attack in Syria on our troops. It seems like Middle Eastern-inspired terror is making a comeback right now. And it does seem like our troops domestically, like those National Guard troops who were killed by allegedly by that guy who drove cross country to kill them, who may or may not have been radicalized again, possibly inspired by ISIS terror, certainly seemed that way, has got people feeling a little on edge.

1:45:52How do you view this apparent resurgence of an old enemy? Yeah, I mean, look, I think that at any point in time, you identify with something, whether it's religious, whether it's left or right, I mean, it doesn't matter. I think you're going to have to stand and you're going to have to defend it. I think today that violence is going through the roof because, I mean, I think it's more of what our life is going to be like, right? I mean, this is just, it's not going away. You can bank on that. I think what we've seen in Australia is something that we have a bunch of sleeper cells here. You know, we've got Director Gabbard who just came out and her team, like literally confirming that there's at least 2 ,000 that have ties back to extremists.

1:46:35And this is not something that's unique, but what is unique is that, again, we've had four years of not America first, of us not being able to stand for what's right, of us not protecting and putting the United States of America first. And that's something that cannot be tolerated. And so I just think that, look, the reality of what life is going to be like daily is going to be that, look, we have enemies. You know, I just I heard a conversation going on before I came on about, you know, you know, don't want to send our kids to school until the threat's gone. Well, the reality is there's a threat there every single day.

1:47:09Like the reality is if you're living in a bubble that there's not a threat every day, you're naive and you're just hoping and living on a false insurance policy. It's there. It's there. But that's that's that's we're not going to cower to terrorism. We're not going to cower to any of that. What we need to do is we just need to be prepared. We need to be ready and we just need to understand that this is going to be part of our life until we start putting this country first. And still we until we start only allowing people here that are that want to be America, that love America. Right. I mean, when we're allowing people to live in this country that hate this country.

1:47:42Well, what do you expect? What do you expect? Right. I mean, like this is not it doesn't take it's it's not a it's not mental jujitsu. right? I mean, this is pretty simple. Like when you allow, allow, you know, uh, rhetoric to be spoken about, about hating America, when we have leaders, elected leaders that hate America, when we're voting for people that hate America, and then we're like accepting, you know, all of this, like, look, the silent majority is going to have to stop being silent because the loud minority is overcoming and they are setting the standards for what this country looks like.

1:48:19So, I mean, we can get in the details of, yeah, I mean, I think all of this is horrible. I think it's terrible. I don't know that we need to draw it back and forth to, you know, one demographic over the other. Right. I mean, I just, I think that it just comes down to people. Well, it's very interesting. That's a, that's an interesting security, uh, analysis because I will say, you know, the guards, they'll tell you security guards, of course I've had plenty. Um, we'll tell you that the, the, if the guy standing next to you with a gun is the one who actually has to stop someone from trying to kill you, there's been a massive system failure that like your security team should be looking at threats, threat profile.

1:49:00How do you keep the person safe? It's almost like, look at President Trump. You know, it's like the would be assassin should not be able to get anywhere near him and threats online should be thoroughly investigated. The president shouldn't be offered up to any venue that hasn't been secured. You know, it's like if the Secret Service with the guns are actually taking out a potential shooter, something's gone catastrophically wrong. And it's almost the same with our foreign policy. You know, if we're getting ISIS lovers shooting our National Guardsmen here domestically, there's been a system failure long before they actually got in the presence of the National Guardsmen.

1:49:35I think that's what you're saying, and I totally agree with that. It made me wonder, because when I saw what was happening in Providence, for example, you're right. Every day there's risk. There's more risk now with an active shooter on the loose. And the problem I have in Providence is it's not Texas. You know, no one there is going to have a gun at those schools to protect children this week. You know, like there's not going to be a good guy with a gun. And I wonder, you know, I thought to myself, how about all these ex-military guys who would love to use some of their skills to protect defenseless American children?

1:50:07You know, by standing outside of a school armed and ready for bad guys. Like, is there any sort of a program where that could happen? Have you ever spoken with military guys about their willingness? You know, I just, it seems like we have such a wealth of talent from guys who no longer are on active duty that we don't tap into. Yeah. I mean, I, I don't, I don't know. I don't know that that, like, I, I don't know. I mean, my, my kids have a, a, my kids have a, a, you know, look, a person at their school. Um, you live in the South. Well, I mean, I, I do, but I also don't think that he's going to stop a shooter.

1:50:42Right. I also don't trust the training and the mindset and the mentality. I mean, I don't. And so I just, I don't know that that's going to be the solution. I think that the solution is going to be is that, you know, if we don't feel that the baseline protection of our children, if we don't feel secure and we can't sit here and defend ourselves and take care, if we have to dial 911 in order to have somebody come protect us, we probably shouldn't live in that state. You know what I mean? like there's a personal responsibility to this right of of why are we outsourcing and i got i get part of it but we should part of this comes down to we have outsourced all of our responsibilities and and we are outsourcing um you know hey we're going to try to to get it we know this but i mean okay if you start putting armed people to where you know the schools aren't soft targets well guess what they're going to catch them at a football game i mean they're always looking for soft targets right and that's why you look at i mean these these hardened criminals or whatever you call them.

1:51:42I call them, you know, hardened, cowardly criminals. You know, they go and they prey on people and they, crime is so high in places where it makes it, the laws allow them to go and to operate freely because they don't want to stand up against people or places that will not tolerate it. And so, you know, while you're not going to stop a shooting here, what you will happen is, is that I am like 10 minutes from my daughter's school and I have a gun in my vehicle and like, I would go help, right? Like you're not going to get away with hurting people here and you're going to have people that are going to stand up for it.

1:52:15And you have to worry about that all around the state of Texas. And so, you know, I think that we have a personal responsibility of where we're raising our families and where we're at. And if the laws are allowing us at a minimum laws are made, I mean, I mean, you get this better than anybody laws are there to do what? To protect people. And at the point that laws are there or being put in place or people are being elected leaders are keeping us from the ability to protect ourselves or our families, well, we have a responsibility to move to live in places where we can do that. That's true. I mean, you think about what happened in Australia, the strictest gun control laws anywhere.

1:52:59And what did we see? I mean, we honestly, what we saw was four female cops cowering next to their cars and no good guys with guns because they didn't have any. And they were just sitting ducks, getting shot by the bad guys who did have the guns, who had been on the watch list, but then removed, like investigated his potential terror threats, at least the one, the son. And then they said, no, he's not, he's good. And then he went off for a month to the Philippines, an area of it that is known for terror training, for a month with the dad, didn't set off any alarm bells, even though the guy had already been like, hmm, he's on our radar.

1:53:34And they knew the father had six guns. Those people get six guns and drive to the beach with three ISIS flags on their car. And it takes 10 minutes for a good guy, a cop with a gun, and someone willing to actually use it, unlike the cowering female police officer, to save people. It's so frustrating. But to your point about like, choose where you live and be mindful of like what you're getting. I think people in Australia think that they're immune to gun violence now after all these years, they've had attacks, but it's been a long time because their laws. And sadly, it was a reminder that no one's immune.

1:54:09Well, that's what they've been told, right? I mean, this is what they've been preached to is like, hey, where we take away guns and gun laws are strict, it's going to be safer. I mean, that's what they've been told. And I mean, it's, you know, and the problem with this, Megan, And like the real problem of why we have to stand up and we have to start calling things where it is, is, is that eventually there's going to be a generation that knows no different than violence. And by this being the norm, they're not going to know a time where there was safe streets, where there was, you know, where, where there were, where there were people who could stand up and say something or people who could take action.

1:54:41So now they just watch people take inaction and we've accepted inaction, right? Like, like it is safer and better for you to do nothing and let other people suffer than it is for you to go do this. And I blame lawyers. I blame, I blame lawyers. This is the problem with like, the law has been weaponized in order for people to profit. Um, and now it's put people in a position to where they have to decide if, do I do what's morally right or what's legally right? And most of the time, a lot of times those don't coexist. And, and, you know, I think the biggest part to me watching Australia was, was watching the video.

1:55:13Like, I want you to watch that video and like, like my gut wrenched of people filming it those you know those shooters like did you see them even having to run around like they weren't scared they weren't feared that anybody was no stop them they were like one guy behind the run of the places on right and you just stand up shooting people freely and nobody is willing to go take this guy on right like i mean well two people tried two people tried you see okay you got three out of how many out of how many look at all the people filming. I want you to watch these people. And I just like, I look at it and I go, what would you want somebody to do if your kids were out there?

1:55:54If your kids were there, what would you want people to do? And I think that's how we should all handle ourselves. And I just like, I think it's just, it's sad. It's so sad that, that, you know, you had three people taking action. You had three people, two of them lost their lives. One of them actually, you know, took the gun from a guy. But I mean, like those, those terrorists, they, they knew that, I mean, they were just walking around freely shooting people in daylight, broad daylight. It does, it does make you think like, would they have done that in Houston, Texas? No, no, they wouldn't. They wouldn't.

1:56:29They, they know, they would know exactly what they get down there. And that's a good thing. That's a good thing for the citizens of Houston. All right. I want to end on this because I thought this is an interesting post you made. You on your sub stack were making the point to young men that your feed is creating the man you are becoming. This is very important. Your social media and the consumption that comes through passively to you every day does change who you are. I mean, it actually, it's really important to step away from that and also to curate that. It's almost why like I try to go over to Instagram as often as possible, because over there, almost everything I follow is like a positive thing, you know, like something about how you can be more healthy, like a Maha type stuff, you know, like it's stuff like, oh, these are supplements you might wanna consider, or here's a workout you could do.

1:57:24Or just like now I'm very into, here are the best eight gifts you can get your son for Christmas or your daughter, you know, like that's positive. Twitter is a sewer fight. And too much time on Twitter can make you comfortable with sewer fights and a sewer fighter, which, okay, can be useful scale, but it's also not really where you want to spend your time or who you want to be. Seems to me this is in part the point you were making. Can you expand on it? Yeah. I mean, look, you know, we all grew up with the understanding the term of you are what you eat, right? I mean, you are what you eat. And that was like a simple phrase that that was my nutrition talk whenever I was back in public school.

1:58:02um and now it's like you know you are what you consume mentally emotionally uh you are what you consume and right and like you know what you're bringing in and the conversations you know it's and it comes down to people places and things and that's what i was trying to point out in my you know my youtube video because look i have came out here lately and and i do believe this with every moral fiber of my being and i'll i'll defend it till the day i die i believe every problem we have in the world right now is caused by weak men, period, hard stop. And I can draw it back to that. And so look, I don't know that you're going to change adult men, but I think what we can do is we can influence the next generation of men.

1:58:40And we're going to have to, we're going to need them to step up and to be strong and to be kind and to be leaders. You know, we've got this war on masculinity and I do understand toxic masculinity, but masculinity, we it's very important to the survival of any of any like aspect of society and so a society that makes that makes men is going to eventually fail but uh men who strong men good men who make a society is going to prevail and so we're gonna have to get it back and so yeah i was talking about this that it starts with your mindset i mean everything that you do comes down to mindset what you believe is what you will achieve and you can never achieve more than you believe And so I think that like you have to believe that there's potential in it and that is the american spirit Megan like it's the american spirit of people believing that they can perform the impossible against all odds There is no logic to the american spirit, right?

1:59:35I mean you take you go back We're about to be 250 years 70 people stood up in and I think it was like 1.5 million at the time possibly in 13 colonies Maybe i'm off on that number, but um 70 people who had no training, nothing else, but they just believed that they were going to stand up for what was right. And they were not going to live under, uh, you know, this again. And they went up against the most, uh, you know, the most powerful military on the planet. And just because they believe they could do it, they did it. So back to my point is, is like understanding, like your mindset and shaping your mind and chipping away at your mind is conversations.

2:00:10It is the negativity. It is what you're consuming on content. It's video games. It's all of this. All of that is driving you to setting you up to what the rest of you and how you believe and how you handle yourself and what you think is right and what's not. It's all, it is all doing that. And so, and you've seen it and it's, it's not arguable. And especially when our kids are moldable and they're all looking for something to be part of, because that is what I've seen with this generation. They want to be part of something bigger than themselves. And we've just got to, we can't just walk around and point out what's wrong because that's what we're all doing right now.

2:00:42Like, oh, this is wrong. This sucks. This sucks. okay, well, tell me something better. We're going to have to out market it with something better, not just walk around and point out what's wrong because, well, I mean, we're seeing where that's getting us. And that's, that's what I was trying to get through on the video was what you consume, like is what you're going to eventually become. And you know, the person you pointed out at the beginning of the show of who I was, I mean, I was a victim, right? I mean, I was, I was hanging around people who were just complaining about service and about how bad life was and, and, you know, trying to make my struggles unique to me.

2:01:12And guess what? It got me, it got me depression, anxiety. It got me, I mean, it literally got me the most out of shape that I've ever been. And I eventually I looked in the mirror and I couldn't even recognize the human being that was standing there. And so, you know, and it wasn't the world's fault. It wasn't my parents' fault. It was my fault. And I need to take responsibility for that so that I could change it. As you talk about it, Dakota, I think to myself, I have two sons and a daughter. how do you raise a leader? How do you raise someone with courage, Dakota Meyer style? You first have to be a leader.

2:01:51You know, I looked in the mirror and the way I call it the mirror check every morning I look at it and I go, would I be proud if my daughter selected me as their husband? Is that what I expect from them? Because before I can tell them what they should go do, I have to be able to show them and I have to be it. And so I have to set the standard by living the standard. You know, the biggest problem in every aspect of our world right now is hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is killing us. We hold others to a standard we don't hold ourselves to. We expect from others. We don't expect from ourselves. We try to expect other people to be something that we couldn't even be.

2:02:28And it's absolutely insane and it's absurd. And so for me, hey, how I raised my daughters, we have this little, I call it the box. My daughters came in one day and they're having to make decisions. This idea of like, hey, let's keep them young, long. You don't get to decide how long they get to be young. You don't get to decide what the world's going to throw at them. You don't get to decide that. And to think that you're going to be able to do that is nothing short of insane right now. And it's going to end up, you're going to end up with a problem like we just seen over this last week, the results of bad parenting.

2:03:03And so, you know, when you look at this, I give my daughters the tools to take on what the world's going to throw at them. So for me, we have the Meyer box. And so the Meyer box, it's got four sides and it's got one destination, right? And so the box is, is I expect my daughters to be kind, to be respectful, to be strong, and to be leaders. And every decision and action that they take, take must fit in that box. That is the expectation of a mire. And that is what we are. That is the front and right, front sight and the back sight of their decisions and actions. And we are aiming at changing the world and making it a better place.

2:03:43And there's nothing, it is not conditional upon how people treat us or the situations or the circumstances that we are in. We must always conduct ourselves amongst that. And so when my daughters come in, they're like, hey, so-and-so said this to me and it bothered me. So I pushed her on the playground. It's like, well, is that strong? Is that strong? You're pushing a girl that's smaller than you? Nope. Is that being a leader? What if everybody did that? Nope. Is that kind? Nope. Is that respectful? No. So it doesn't fit in the box. So now what decision can you make in that situation that will fit in that box?

2:04:17Well, I can tell her that this is how it made me feel. And then if she does this again, and I'm not going to be around her, and I'm not going to be her friend, and I'm not... Exactly. So do that. Do that and be the bigger person, and also, but head it straight on. Don't avoid conflict. I want my daughters... There is no acceptance of avoiding conflict. They need to be very good and very tactical at conflict to where they're going to win at it. Yeah, you can't be in a safe space, so-called safe space all your life, and then expect to develop coping skills or leadership skills. Did your parents do that with you?

2:04:51because something happened with you that made you do what you did, you know, and just keep going back, helping people, great risk to your personal safety. You just didn't care. So it seems to me you might've either had a death wish or there was something else in there that made you, you. Yeah. I, um, I'm so fortunate. I grew up around hard men, uh, and foundational structural. My grandmother was, I mean, she, I mean, I grew up around incredible people, you know, And back then, like, I'm not saying it's easier to parent back then than it is today, but back then you could control more of what influences your kids, right?

2:05:27Like you could control more of it. You had more of a take on it. You could decide what was actually coming in and they were consuming than you can today, right? Today, you are always fighting for that influence on your children. And so my dad and my grandfather and my uncles and my cousins and my aunts, my grandmother, they were principled people. And I'll tell you something. The one thing my uncle and my dad and they all mentioned was, and they made clear, I know how they definitely, it wasn't like a certain talk, but it was, you understand like there's been a lot of people that's tried to keep that name and that have honored that name before you and you're representing that.

2:06:13And it's about keeping that going forward. And like they never, my dad never was a willing to accept societal norms. He didn't care what anybody else thought my dad. And then we're always striving to do what needed to be done and what was right. And that was never conditional upon the opinions of what everybody else thought and what everybody else was doing. Wow. I mean, it explains a lot. I'm thrilled you're getting back into the game, Dakota. There's so many other things you'd be doing. You could be making a bunch of money. You could be taking it easy. You could be getting soft, you know, like that's what happens to most of us after like the peak of our career and you're getting back into it and serving again.

2:06:52We are so, so lucky to have you. Thank you. Thank you for the service you've already given and are about to give as well. Great to see you. Yes, ma 'am. All right, don't forget, check out Dakota's work on Substack at The Bluff. That's the B-L-U-F. What a man. Thank you guys for watching, and we'll be back tomorrow. Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.