Shawn Ryan and Charlie Sheen - Megyn Kelly's "Double Feature" of Fascinating Interviews

30:00They don't really tell you what the standards are. They're just, it's just, here's the time, do your best. And, or sometimes they won't even give you the time. Just hit that target as many times as you can and as fast as possible. And so you do that and it's, you know, it's really, it's, you don't know the standard and that's the biggest stressor is right there's nobody it's not succeeding what's failing yeah you don't you have no idea and um you don't even know if you passed at the end of the day or not and so it's just i mean you you know you passed if you're showing up the next day to work to try out and so we had made it through the shooting qualifications and then you go through a lot of kind of situational stuff they'll put you in these in these situations and they wanted to see how you react how you can lead a team how you can integrate him with a team all kinds of different scenarios scenarios that you're never going to fight your way out of lots of civilians they would plant lots of like role players with simunition rounds which is basically kind of like a paintball gun, but more realistic.

31:19And they would put you in all these scenarios to see if you could keep your cool under pressure, not shooting any innocent civilians. It was a protection type gig as well. So a lot of times they would have like some type of an asset that you have to go in and extract. And I made it through that. And then at the very end, there was also driving, surveillance, all kinds of stuff that they wanted to just kind of see how you were in all these different scenarios. And at the end, they give you the brief and say, hey, you know, this is the OGA, other government agency, CIA contract. and they started looking for dates to go overseas.

32:07Yes, but you don't know for what? No, you never know. You just know that you've been selected as this elite kind of service member and whatever it is is gonna be very high level and complicated and complex, right? So you're in, but you don't know what you're in for. Yeah. Well, that's disconcerting. Just listening to you, you are cool, you are calm. Like that probably really helped you. I mean, I was just thinking, who do I know who's kind of more on the hysterical end? I don't know her, but she's the only one who came to mind. Somebody like a Bethany Frankel, the former real housewife. I know that's a bizarre comparison, but I mean, she's tightly wound, Sean.

32:46She's like, oh, he's like, everything is up here, right? And you're just the opposite of that. You're just kind of a cool cat, like a low blood pressure kind of guy. Well, I mean, when you're in a job like that, and I'm sure you can relate being on TV and with the career that you've had. But, I mean, it gets to be so high stress. Every day you're being judged. You're being graded. It's do you have what it takes to be a part of this team? You know, from SEAL training through the teams, the six years that I was there to CIA or Blackwater training for the subcontract of CIA contractor. I mean, it's just you have to get to the point where you can, you know, blow that stuff off.

33:30And that came to me in the teams. I was constantly just, it was just stress all the time. Do I deserve to be here? Am I going to get kicked out this week? You know, what does my team think of me? I'm a new guy. And you have to, and that stuff can hinder your performance. And so, you know, the most stressful thing you can do, at least for me as an operator, is when you're doing the kill house. which is entering buildings, saving hostages, killing bad guys all in your face, clearing houses basically. We're talking about real life now or the training? We're talking about training and real life. Okay.

34:13But primarily, I guess primarily training. And it gets to the point where if you let this stuff get to you, every house, we call them a house run, where you go through the doors, maybe you blow the doors, maybe you're climbing in a window, maybe you're coming in from the rooftop, doesn't matter. But once you enter that house in training, every move you make is critiqued. And it can make it seem like, and purposely, that they're picking on you, that you're not any good, that they don't want you there. And you just have to get to the point where you can't let that stuff affect you. It just got to the point in the teams where I had hit this mental switch where I don't care anymore.

35:02I had, like, tricked myself into thinking, I don't care how this house run ends. I don't care what these guys think of me. I'm just going to do the best I can do, and that's all I can do. Do you know the Free Solo movie and the story about that mountain climber who refused to use any lines and supports and he wound up dying? No. But they talk about these guys who climb these mountains and they're nuts. They do it with no support. You know, there's nothing to, you know, and a lot of them do die. But they identify with a lot of these guys that they've lost their ability to get an adrenaline surge.

35:39And that's actually one of the reasons why they do it the way they do it without all the belts and suspenders. can you relate to that at all oh yeah do you do you lose adrenaline yeah and then maybe crossing over to it's gone like where is it how can i get it again yeah you find it through i mean that's why so many guys honestly wind back up in the in the contracting arena is especially like these guys you know that it spend 30 plus years at the seal teams or a sf team or delta or wherever Rangers, MARSOC, it's never enough. I mean, it's like a heroin addiction. You're constantly looking for the fix, and then it gets so bad that even on your off time, you're looking for it.

36:32It's not. You can't take six months and not feel that. It's the pinnacle of your existence at the time.

36:45Hey, everyone. It's me, Morgan Stewart, and I have a new podcast called The Morgan Stewart Show. Join me each week as I talk about pop culture, fashion, my personal life, and just a warning, I'm going to be giving my opinion on everything. I'll also have some really fun guests to join in on the fun. The Morgan Stewart Show is out now. Listen and follow wherever you get your podcasts or watch full video on YouTube. Game day at my place is kind of a big deal. If I'm grilling, chilling, and watching hoops, my outdoor patio setup better be ready to play. That's where Wayfair wins. From patio seating and umbrellas to grills and grilling accessories, Wayfair's got it all, and it shows up fast.

37:23I'm talking championship-level fast and easy delivery. So level up your grill game and your outdoor chill game and head to Wayfair.com now to get your outdoor space ready for the season.

37:39I can't imagine, you know, just the other night I was at a dinner party at a friend's house in Connecticut and it was absolutely lovely. The hostess knew all the right things to do. We had a lovely cocktail hour. We sat down for dinner. There was even some dancing after the fact, which is a successful cocktail party, a dinner party by any measure. I can't imagine a Sean Ryan having lived the life you've lived, right? Coming back from all of that and even participating in such. I mean, I just feel like your whole life must have been, you know, when this was done, like, what is this? Who are these people?

38:17What is, this is just absolute drivel around me everywhere. None of this matters. Did you go through that? Oh, yeah. It created a lot of anxiety, a lot of anxiety. I had really bad social anxiety when I left the agency. And I just, I mean, you are thrown into a world that you thought you knew. And it's just, it's hard. I mean, it's really hard to relate to anybody who has not lived the kind of life that you've lived. It takes a long time, you know, and it takes a lot of self-work. It's like you were on Mars for 14 years. Pretty much. Yeah, that's a good way to put it. Right? And you come back, Earth has changed a lot.

39:09Now there's an internet and GPS and iPhones and social media. So it's like the dramatic changes. And a lot of different opinions on what we're doing over there. So can you help me understand, because we talked about leaving the SEALs and going to Blackwater. Do you count that as CIA time? I don't totally understand the distinction. So I spent a very brief time at Blackwater as well. So I did two deployments, I think, with Blackwater.

39:38But you're under – so basically, if you're going to get your housework done, right, you're going to use a general contractor. And then he's going to subcontract out the plumbing, the drywall, the air conditioning. So think of Blackwater as the general contractor for the U.S. government. And so then Department of State says, hey, we need 500 guys in Baghdad to protect all of our state diplomats. Okay, so Blackwater goes and what kind of guys do you want? What do you want to pay? What qualifications are you looking for? And then they go find those type of people, train them up, put them through a vetting course, and then here's your 500 guys.

40:23And so CIA does the same thing. It's, hey, we have this very particular set of skills we're looking for. This is the job description. You guys, you, Blackwater, go find these guys for us. So we're basically subcontractors for the agency. Does that make sense? Yeah. I don't understand Blackwater that well, but why would they not just go tap the SEALs or the Green Berets? Why would they go to Blackwater for any of this? That's a great question. I wish I could answer that. And they do go direct. And so later on in my career after Blackwater, I had taken a break from Blackwater. Then I went to a company called SOC, did a couple appointments with them, got kind of tired of the agency stuff for a little bit.

41:12So then I jumped on an anti-piracy gig back. Do you remember the Marisk, Alabama? Yeah. So after that happened, all these contracts spun up and it was, all right, we need seals on ships to kill pirates that are trying to kidnap the crew and take over the ship. Just another day at work. Yeah, and ransom. No, that's like Rob O 'Neill. I told him he's like the Waldo of servicemen. He's everywhere. Yeah. Every movie that's ever been made, Rob O 'Neill had a role in it. He's been on all of the ops, right? But, yeah. But so I did that for two deployments. And then the agency got back in touch with me.

41:51And then they wanted me to come work direct for them as a contractor, but not through any companies. Okay. And so. And now you're actually earning some money. Yeah. So that's good. Yeah. I mean, more so than you ever got paid by the Navy. Way more than I got paid for by the Navy. But can you get rich doing that or not really? I mean, I guess it depends on how you invest your money. I mean, at that time, a good rate was about$1 ,000 a day. So that would be a really, that would be a good rate. Some guys, a low rate would be about$550 a day. And so, yeah, I mean, it depends on how much you want to deploy.

42:32Where are you sitting in between deployments? Are you back here, like going to the movies and Starbucks? I spent a lot of time. Well, I mean, it was 14. Agency was about a little shy of nine years. And so I would, man, I would go all over. But towards the end, I started going to Columbia, South America. This was not a good period in your life. You know about this. Nothing good happens in Columbia. Nothing good does happen in Columbia. Now, I do know a little bit about your troubles, and that was a rough period for you. Explain why and why Columbia. Well, originally, I went to Columbia because when I joined the SEAL teams, I had always wanted to go to Team 4 because I wanted to do the counter-drug ops.

43:27Well, then 9-11 kicked off, obviously, and that wasn't a focus at all. And so when I was in the agency, I'd broken up with a girlfriend. And so I decided I wanted to travel. And I'd always, I was just infatuated. I mean, those were all the documentaries I was watching when I went to the recruiter. That was the only thing going on at the time was Panama and kind of the counter-drug situation down in South America, which a lot of that was in Colombia. Since documented in shows like Narcos. Yeah. Yeah. And so I decided I wanted to go check it out down there. And so I - I mean, that's crazy talk. Just like as a pin in this, that's crazy talk.

44:13Nobody looks at a show like Narcos or Panama and says, yes, I want to go there. All normal people are like, thank God that's down there. Yeah. Well, I mean, it was for a number, I wanted to see, I just, I wanted to be in a jungle environment. and uh so i went to check it out had a a great time and uh and so i kept i just kept going back kept going back kept going back all the way past my time at the agency but uh then it turned into we had just kind of spoken about addiction to adrenaline and so i was going down there doing a lot of stuff that I shouldn't be doing, cocaine. And then once I left the agency, I kind of started building a network down there.

45:08And it just, it was exciting to me. I was in overseas, building my own network, kind of felt like I was kind of running my own operations. What kind of operations? uh drug networks and so i wanted to see how deep into the kind of narcos network i could get myself and but this was not for crime fighting no this was for crime committee pretty much yeah and um so i kind of started at street level and built a network out and went to clubs and met people and and found my guys and started testing cocaine and finding the best stuff, and I found it. And that lasted for a couple years, and I would just bounce.

46:06I mean, it was really, I got a lot of satisfaction out of the adrenaline and just seeing how much I could embed myself into these different cultures. And so then I started flying all over South America. I started going to Peru and starting to build network there and Dominican Republic and Panama, all over Colombia, all over the country, and Costa Rica. And then I started looking up the most dangerous places you could go in the world. And at the time, it was San Pedro, Sula, Honduras. So I went there and started. I didn't get very far there. But that was my life for several years. Wow. And the part was cocaine, and you would find what, like, would be dealers, people to distribute it?

47:01I would find dealers, and then I would find their dealers, and then I would find where their dealers get their stuff. And I got to a pretty high level. It's a miracle you weren't killed. It is a miracle. It was, I mean, I was, I mean, this is what I do for a living though, you know? And so. That's true. You had some pretty superior training. I was, I was pretty good at it and pretty fearless at the time. So when you're talking to your old Navy SEAL buds or Blackwater buds and you're down there and they're saying, what are you up to? What were you saying? I would just tell them. I've crossed over to the other side.

47:40I wouldn't tell them exactly what I'm doing, but I would, I mean, they knew. Everybody kind of knew, you know. I mean, it just, I started losing friends. I know the conversations were like, oh, yeah, I mean, he's down in Columbia, and nobody really hears from him anymore. And I would resurface every once in a while. Sometimes guys would come down to see me. They wouldn't last very long. They'd head back out immediately. And it just, it got to be very dark. And, you know, I OD'd down there a couple of times. And I remember one time I woke up and it was like, it was Mother's Day. and I remember calling my mom, and I was all junked out, and I remember after that conversation, it just hit me like a ton of bricks, and I knew I needed to pull myself out of that, and it kind of like went right back to the time when I told you the only reason I made it through BUDS was I didn't want to let my parents down, And I sure as hell didn't want my parents to get a notice weeks later that their son had OD'd on cocaine in a penthouse in Columbia.

49:16And who knows how long that would take to even get to them. And so it had painted this picture in my head. And I started seeking help, kind of. It's a big moment. Yeah. Yeah. Before you begin that path to redemption. Yeah. What got you there? What made you establish residency in Colombia and go all over these countries, the most dangerous countries on earth to mess with other people's drug rings? My God, right? It's like playing with plutonium for Yeah. And be so reckless with your life and your well-being. You know, I just didn't value life anymore. I didn't care. I mean, I had expected to die down there.

50:13And then when I got close, I realized there's a lot more to life than this. And so I cleaned it up. And truth be told, I mean, that was kind of an awakening, but I wasn't 100 % ready to shut it down. And then I had built quite the network down there. And I got tipped off that the federal police in Columbia were surveilling me and people that I was with. And so I hid, I E &E'd out of the country. What's E &E'd? I mean, I just, I abruptly left. And I did kind of a, we call them an SDR, but surveillance detection route. And I wanted to see if they were surveilling me if I was walking around town.

51:09and so I got rid of everything, cleaned everything up, and went to an internet cafe, booked myself some tickets to a couple different places, jumped on one, and left the country. Came back stateside? Yeah. Do we extradite to Columbia? Just asking for a friend. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, no, I got out of there, and went home, went home to Missouri, talked to my parents. They knew something was really wrong. You told them everything? Yeah, I don't remember telling them anything. And woke up the next day after telling them with a hangover, and my dad was, I could just tell by the look on his face that I must have spilled probably just about everything.

52:04What did the look say? Very concerned and worried. Hey, everyone. It's Stavros Halakis, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast, Stavis World. Each week, we're joined by great guests like Josh Safdie, Eric Andre, Caleb Heron, and more. It's sort of an interview show, but really, we're just messing around, making each other laugh, and hopefully making you laugh while you're washing the dishes or grocery shopping or on a long drive. Plus, I take listener calls where we have honest conversations about dating life and everything in between. Imagine if your therapist was a vulgar degenerate whose office was in a Greek diner.

52:41No scripts, no polish, and absolutely no holding back. Listen to Stavi's World wherever you get your podcasts. It's Charles Barkley here with Wayfair. And let me tell you, game day is serious business at my house. If I'm grilling, chilling, and watching hoops, my outdoor setup better be ready to play. That's what Wayfair wins. From patio seating and umbrellas to grills and grill accessories, Wayfair's got it all. And it shows up fast. I'm talking fast and easy delivery. So level up your grill game and your outdoor chill game. And head to Wayfair.com to get your outdoor space ready for the season.

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53:23I didn't take it seriously. I didn't think I needed any help. And I just kept at it. What do you mean? Kept at what? I kept at, I wouldn't put the bottle down. I wasn't ready to do that. I don't think I could have done that. And then, you know, through the career, I mean, you just, you know, I had mentioned, you know, numbing it out. And numbing it out becomes, it's not even a cycle. It's just this, it's just pills after pills after pills. It's a way of life. You know, it's Valium, Xanax, lorazepam, Ambient, hydrocoating, oxy, tramadol, kind of whatever you can just wash down to shut the brain down and get some rest.

54:07And so I wasn't doing that. I wasn't ready to clean that up. I had kind of weaned myself off the coke. and um and then things just weren't getting better my life wasn't developing afterwards and so i started going to therapy and uh and uh which was talk therapy yeah i started going to talk therapy extremely hesitant i was i thought well i need to go to somebody i have to go to somebody that's experienced what I've experienced. I need like a Vietnam vet or somebody that has seen action. And I couldn't find anybody. And so I just Googled. I just Googled therapist, talked to two or three of them, and walked into one, which was very, it was interesting because this was kind of before anybody really knew about the suicide epidemic, before PTSD and traumatic brain injury and operator syndrome or whatever they're calling it this week kind of started getting out there.

55:24And... And, man, it took me a while to warm up, but I love it. Male or female? Female. Nice. Yeah. I love a female therapist. Mine currently is male, but there was a woman who I Googled when I was leaving my first husband. Before there was Doug, there was Dan, with whom I'm still friends, but we did get a divorce. And same thing, I Googled this woman, and she totally changed my life. You never know. I mean, you can strike gold and then they're yellow pages or Google pages as it is now. And I can relate to doing that and having it be a life changer. Yeah. Good for you. I'm happy for you. Thank you.

56:08So yeah, interesting enough, she had never talked, ever talked to a combat vet and wound up, I did my own research and wound up being a pretty staunch liberal, which I probably wouldn't have gone to her. So you were more conservative going in. I know you mean right now, but back then you were too. Yes, definitely. Probably more so. But I got to be honest, you know, that woman is like an angel. And I don't care what her political beliefs are. that woman has saved more special ops guys from suicide than anybody saved in combat, than anybody I know. And she still does it to this day. And that was back in probably 2015, 2016 timeframe.

57:09And it was me. And when I left the agency, I was also trying to save my best friend's life who had a terrible heroin addiction. And I talked him into going in to meet her. And then I just started telling everybody. And I remember my best friend's name was Gabe. And we gave her a SEAL team plaque just to say thank you. because she was helping us out. She had dubbed her prices down and just an amazing woman. And now you go in there and her entire office is just plaque after plaque after plaque. Pretty soon you're going to see a Trump banner. She's going to be wearing the MAGA hat. Yeah, but that would be a sight to see.

58:06But, I mean, you know, the reason I say that is because there are some things that can, you know, political agendas don't get in the way. Transcend to politics. You don't see that very often these days, and I think that's important. I love that you said that. I feel the same. I have very strong political views on a number of issues, but pretty much 80 % of the people around me who I love in my life, the woman who raised me, all my best friends, my best friends growing up, are liberal. They're not woke, but they're liberal. They're Democrats. So I have tons of love in my heart for all of them, even though they don't vote the way I vote and they don't feel the way I do about the issues that are really important to me.

58:54But I don't care. Yeah. Those don't have to be the stakes of the relationship. Yeah. It takes a strong person to overcome that these days, but they're out there. Yeah. Do you say her name or at least her first name? Her first name's Amy. My lady was named Amy. Really? What area of the country was this? Missouri? Well, no, no. That's South Florida. Okay. Yeah. My lady was in the Virginia area, Northern Virginia. Interesting. We'll talk after. All right. specifics but same thing um and i when you were telling me that story it reminded me so you know we we have military guys on all the time because i just absolutely respect the hell out of you guys and what you do and as i said and would love to raise two little soldiers but don't really want to for the reasons discussed and uh we interviewed dakota meyer oh and of course his story is just it's incredible medal of honor talked about how he was drunk up there when president bush was pinning the medal on him and or was obama and um he talked very openly about how difficult it was for him to come back and miss the guys and miss the adrenaline and just dealing with the trauma of everything he'd seen and done and he talked about his own moment of super low and being rescued by an angel and we pulled the soundbite.

1:00:23So take a watch. I felt like where I was at in life at that point that, you know, that I just couldn't get my stuff together and I just, I should fix it, right? Like the fear I could see in people's eyes, you know, with me, like I was a monster. It's just like drinking and just, you know, you know, the thing is, and people don't talk about this much you know you don't fight evil with nice people and i just remember driving home and i pulled off this highway i at my buddy's shop because i knew you know i didn't want anybody worried about me right so i pulled in and i knew that he would be in because he comes into work every morning and i just yeah i mean i was i was gonna do it right there i stuck it to my head and I squeezed the trigger and it just like it went click and there was no round in it.

1:01:17And I don't know if, you know, I feel like I know who did it. I don't I don't I don't truly know, though. But he said he does believe he knows a friend had removed the bullets from the gun. Wow. He thinks it was a friend. Yeah. Does he know who it was? He said he thinks he does. But that's an angel. That's a real life God's angel on this earth. Yeah. Looking out for him. You know, she saved him. And I believe, you know, Amy may have saved you and maybe my Amy saved me. It's like, yes, you kind of have to be a willing participant, but I know you found faith. And I'm also a person of faith. And I do think like if you're just open eyed, you can see these angels like often all around us.

1:02:08Yeah. And they look like mere mortals, but they were sent here for a purpose. Is that your therapist goes home at night and when she looks back at her day to say, what did I do today that really mattered? My God. Yeah. Does anybody have a better roster? Probably not. Probably not. She's amazing. Now you're doing it. I mean, that's kind of how you make your living now. Just talking to guys who probably aren't that used to talking about this stuff in like a safe place, right? Somebody who gets it. it's kind of a form of talk therapy just to sort of be able to speak about it at least it's a step well it is and uh you know i think um you know my podcast is is done well and super well you're being humble and uh but i give i give amy a lot of credit to how i interview because i i realized You know, I realized in therapy, she really didn't say a whole lot.

1:03:10And a lot of times, you just start figuring things out yourself by just getting it out. And so I realized that if you just let somebody talk, they're just going to keep going nine times out of ten. And, and, and yeah, so, so being in therapy twice a week for three and a half years really helped me as an interviewer. Yeah. Right. As an interviewer too, right. Just to let people talk and to listen. Yep. To listen. It's helpful too, as opposed to be thinking about your next question. So when did you find love? Because that seems relatively recent, right? You got engaged, you got married. Now you have two kids and including a new daughter.

1:03:55Congrats. Thank you. Thank you. So what did you find your wife, your future wife during all of the Amy time or when? Yep. Right in the middle of it. I had a, I met my wife on a gun range at a sporting club in Florida. That's amazing. I know. Right. And my, my best friend still to this day, David Rutherford had a new sniper rifle that he wanted to sight in, and he knew somebody that had access to a thousand-yard range. And so we went out there. Her dad met us, and my wife's name is Katie. She jumped out of the truck, and that was that. We shot some guns. We went to the club restaurant. She gave me some tots, and that was it.

1:04:49What's tots? Tater tots. Big fan. Yeah, me too. Also because I haven't had a French fry in three years. What? Yes, it was a personal mission. I'm basically a Navy SEAL too in my strength and my ability to say no to the things that are bad for me. No, I decided in June of 2021, they were becoming a problem for me. I'm not going to lie. And then I need to swear off. And so I decided to go a year. And now I'm almost three years clean. Well, congratulations. But the tot is a backdoor to the fried potato. It may not pass like a drug test of potato eaters. Right on. But it's not even called the same thing.

1:05:37It's called a tater tot. It's not even a French fry. Anyway, big fan because they allow me to still have my delicious. They're amazing. But I'm not as addicted as the French fry. They don't have the same down the rabbit hole quality for me. Yeah. Yeah, you know, French fries are, it's like a conveyor belt for ketchup. Yes, totally agree. The only purpose of the tot is to deliver the ketchup. Right? I know. And then somebody will buy like the Whole Foods ketchup and you're like, ew, what is this? It just ruins the entire meal. Right? You need the sugar, the preservatives, whatever Heinz does, that's what we need.

1:06:12That's right. That's right. All right. So I never realized it could be an aphrodisiac, but I like how Katie rolls. So she lures you in with the tots and the guns and you were like, I'm home. When are we getting married? That's right. So how long thereafter were you married? Oh man, I think it was, I think it was about a year and a half. So we were in Boca Raton, Florida. I was definitely a fish out of water in that town. Why? And, you know, there's a lot of, I grew up in the Midwest in a town of 6 ,000 people in a farm town. Now I'm in Boca Raton, Florida. Lots of money. Super fabulous. Lots of flash.

1:06:56Okay. Lots of that. And so when me and Katie got serious, it didn't take long. And, you know, Katie has been sober for 15 years now. And I was on a path to get, it was on my radar. And so I had asked her a couple of questions that really resonated with me. And, you know, there's a lot of fake people in South Florida, at least in my experience. And so with Katie, I remember asking her a question, and it was something along the lines of, you know, now that, you know, how do you find real hobbies once you're sober? Because I don't, I had zero hobbies other than boozing. And she had a real answer, and it was just, that's a great question.

1:07:59It just takes time. But she was engaged in that conversation, and so I knew I was like, this is a good one, and she's real. And I had not been around a real woman in a long time, and that was, I still remember where it was. It was at a Thai restaurant in Fort Lauderdale, and she had told me that, and I was like, the conversation just got it it it uh i couldn't talk to anybody like that other than my therapist and um or anybody that had been through something like that like like what i was in the middle of and um so anyways uh we we got closer and i knew we were gonna get married i know i was gonna marry and I just, I said, I don't want to, I don't want to raise my family in South Florida.

1:08:58So we're going to have to leave. And, and so, yeah, we wound up in, in Tennessee. Does she have any roots there or was it just the flocking to Tennessee that so many conservatives did? We, no roots, no roots. We just packed up and, and, and, and went to Franklin. At least she went from the one state with no state income tax to another state with no state income tax. New Hampshire is suddenly amongst the crew. That's nice to see here in the Northeast. Yeah, I know. It looks like it's blowing up. We were looking there for a little bit. Let's go Connecticut. That's right. It's not going to happen.

1:09:32It's far too blue. That's all good. On the hobby front, have you considered needlepoint, or as my good friend describes it, a high-class finger sport? Interesting. I have not. No? Are you into needlepoint? Hell no. I said we are too young to be doing that. Get off of the beach immediately with that monstrosity in your hand. I refuse to sit with you. So did you find whatever, a hobby? Business. I was going to say, it's this, it involves this microphone, right? I found business and that's my hobby. So yeah, my hobbies, I mean, I don't have time for them. I don't have hobbies either, if it makes you feel any better.

1:10:08I love being in my business. And now you have two kids. And I love being with my kids. And so anything outside of that, there's just not much time for. Yeah, no, there really isn't. I mean, I remember when we had kids, a good friend of mine said, you should tell your friends you just had your kids and that you won't be seeing them for about 10 years. That's right. And he's like, the true friends will still be there for you when you get there. And the ones who aren't really your true friends, good riddance. We're figuring that out. We are definitely figuring that out. It's interesting how fast your taste in friends changes.

1:10:38Yeah. You know, especially, I don't know how old your kids are, but - 14, 13, and 10. Oh, okay. Nice. I'm looking forward to those ages. They're great ages. Highly recommend this period of parenthood. It's awesome. Really? They're so easy and they're so fun and they have the best personalities and they still love us. I think we're in the sweet spot of parenting right now. When they're little, I know you've got two littles, it's hard. They're adorable, but it is hard labor. Yeah, we're in potty training right now. But I love every minute of it. You know, I just, it's, it's, it's a tough balance, you know, between work and, and, and family.

1:11:21But I always lean more towards family and, and, man, it just goes so fast. I'm already realizing that. And I don't want to, you know, I'm glad that I waited until after service for kids because it sounds like you've listened to at least a couple of my interviews. And, man, you know, I'm just I'm glad that I never had to put my I will never have to put my kids through what that was like, what what it turned to be into being gone all the time. And I'm a lot better now than than than back then. And you don't have to live with the regret of having missed it. Yeah. Even for a good cause. You know, it's hard to miss it.

1:12:06I've talked to enough people who have made a different choice. You can just hear the regret in their voice and see it on their face, and it's not recapturable once it's gone. Very true. Very true. But, you know, I think in Tennessee you'll do better in instilling values into your kids that reflect your own, right? That's one of the challenges here in the Northeast. Really? Well, yeah. I mean, these woke schools, we fled our New York City schools because of that. Here in Connecticut, we got it made. We did our homework this time since we were fleeing. And we found two great ones, but it's important, right?

1:12:42Because you'll find out when you're, how old is your oldest, your boy? Two and a half. Yeah. So you'll find out when they start to go to school that the schools are, they're your partners. I mean, you need to find a partner. They're the ones who are going to spend the most waking hours with your kids every day. Yeah. So if you're not on the same page about how we're raising a boy or how we're raising a girl, how we're creating a good human being and future citizen, you know, current citizen, but like, you know, responsible citizen, things can go south quickly. That is a constant topic of discussion at our house is how we're going to do that.

1:13:18Are we going to homeschool? Are we going to do private school? What are we going to do? And it turns out we live in like a homeschool Mecca. That's good. Yeah. So we're looking into possibly doing that. I love the homeschooling communities. I have a dear friend who's doing that, swears by it. So what does life look like now? You do the podcast like 25 hours a day. Honestly, how do you do these five-hour podcasts? Man, I just listen. And I get people to open up about things they've never talked about before and go to places that they probably have not been in their mind in years. and um and you can't do that on a time on a timeline you can't you can't do that in a condensed timeline and so you know my longest one i think is nine hours is that right yeah who is that with this this guy cody alford he was a marsoc guy okay but um marine but um and so So, you know, and I think the first one I did was right about two hours.

1:14:35And but then I kept getting longer. And I noticed the more time I spend on the more time I give them, the more they open up. And and what it kind of developed into is is I remember I don't remember who the first guy was. It might have been this guy, Prime Hall. But do you have any idea how many people have been through like child trauma, sexual trauma, abusive parents, whatever it is? And it's like everybody. And so the first time that happened, I was like, all right, I got to start diving more into childhood. and I'll bet 75 % of the people that come on have experienced some type of abuse as a child and I dig into kind of what's happening today with trafficking and pedophilia and all of that kind of stuff.

1:15:34And so I think it's really important to dive into the childhood stuff because it gives people that have been abused that are trying to process that still into their adult life and kids that are going through it right now. I mean, it shows them, like, man, no matter what I'm going through right now, like, I can still find success and find happiness in life. And, you know, there's just not a lot of people doing that right now. And so when somebody goes into their childhood experience and they're going to get descriptive about it, you know, that when they're done and we're done with that section, I always ask, you know, for a kid that's in your position right now, you know, looking back, what could you have done or what would you advise, you know, other kids that are in your position or are there, you know what I'm trying to say.

1:16:29What advice do you have for them? And, I mean, it's helping, you know, it's really helping. And then we get into the military stuff and it's super descriptive And, you know, and I want it to be, I don't want a condensed format because when I started doing this, I wanted to do it because these guys weren't getting a voice in the media at all. And when they did, it was a 30-second blurb. And, you know, so why are we having talking heads in the media documenting what happened over there with a bunch of people that weren't there that thought they knew? And so I wanted to, it kind of started with, I wanted to just document history the way it actually happened with people that were at the events.

1:17:20And so now we've got, you know, just about every major operation that has happened. I heard the one with, forgive me, I don't remember his name, but the gentleman who lost his arm and his leg in the Afghanistan withdrawal. Tyler Vargas. Oh, my God. and that just his whole life had been rough with the dad who was a child molester and it was just, there was a lot in there and those stories are, they're infuriating, right? Because they're recent and we lived them and we still have those same leaders who have yet to make any apology for what happened to guys like Tyler, nothing. Yeah, it's very discouraging.

1:17:59I mean, he's a perfect example though. He interviewed with Good Morning America for seven hours. Did he really? And they released, I believe he said, five seconds of that interview because it made POTUS look so bad. And so I had reached out to him. I wanted to give him the opportunity to get his story out. And he had testified in front of Congress. And no, I mean, none of us were getting the actual boots on the ground version of what the hell happened during that withdrawal. and so he came on we got it out they tried to censor us and and he had all kinds of of actual footage of what was going on and they kept dinging us oh you can't have that in there you can't have that in there and who was youtube you know and it's like guys like this happened like how dare you censor what happened to a u.s marine yeah you know it's it's like this is actual footage this is a lot of this footage has been some of it had been in the media and it's like guys you can't like this is this is what happened so we yanked all the footage and then put it behind um put put the real version behind a paywall because the most important thing was just to get his story out and we wound up it wound up we wound up getting it getting it out you know after several attempts but um not for nothing i know this isn't at all why you do this but in any sane world you'd be getting an award for that kind of coverage.

1:19:31In any sane world, somebody like you would get recognized with a Peabody for something like that, not the nonsense that now gets rewarded with Pulitzers and other awards like the Cronkite. That's actual journalism, actually getting the story and being unafraid to tell it no matter where it takes you. Thank you. We actually pulled a soundbite from that interview. Here he is, Tyler Vargas Andrews, talking about what happened during the attack as we withdrew from Afghanistan. Like 10 minutes goes by and just flash and just get hit with this massive wave of pressure. And then I'm like, my eyes, my eyes are closed.

1:20:09My vision is black and I'm like slowly coming to my right ear is just like super high pitched ringing. My left ear is muffled and I can just hear people screaming in the distance. And I'm just like struggling to open my eyes. finally can open my eyes and it was someone else's fucking body part just like laying in front of me and the people on the other side of the canal just immediately in front of me just got fucking evaporated i kept trying to stand up i'm like fuck like why can't i stand up we started taking fucking shots from the neighborhood and like almost immediately after the blast i tried my fucking hardest to crawl backwards all i could do was like put my left arm on the ground and i'm just like fuck like why is my right arm not working and i remember lifting it up it's there but it's just like fucking shredded up at the elbow and bloodied and i'm just fucking red everywhere

1:21:03pretty horrific we just got into this recently because president biden's former press secretary jen saki wrote a book trying to say it's not true he looked at his watch when the bodies came home to Dover. It's a lie. He looked at his watch several times. She's still running cover for him in her job as a so-called journalist. It's on tape. You can see it repeatedly. There he is in the ceremony over and over trying to sneak in glances. And some of the parents of the fallen are very angry still about that and now about the lies to whitewash it. But this is no, no one ever got fired for any of it.

1:21:43Yeah. So how are these guys, you know, like Tyler feeling about that and about the administration and how it was handled? I mean, they're enraged. We're all enraged. I mean, do you know that we're sending $40 million a week to the Taliban now? Right. It's actually like $43 to$87 million a week. The Taliban. Yep. The same people that we fought for what, 20 plus years. Who are now not allowing girls to go to school, dressing them in full burqas, marrying them off at age 12. Those people. Yeah. Cutting people's heads off, assassinating all of our allies over there, lining them up, shooting them in the back of the head.

1:22:31I mean, it's pretty... I just don't know how anybody can support that. Why are we doing that? Why are we doing that? Why are we giving Iran money or were up until 10-7? I don't – I wish I could answer that. I don't – I just don't know. It doesn't – what's up is down now and what's left is right, what's black is white, and it's the deconstruction of America. of. Well, what do you, I mean, it's got to be directly related to the recruiting rates. No, like guys are looking at this saying, why am I, why would I join up for that? There's no responsibility. Our lives are taken for granted. No one, no one gets fired.

1:23:26No one says, sorry. We continue to funnel money to our enemies who, how much blood and treasure was lost in Afghanistan fighting the same group, which we're now funding. I just like, I know people say, that's not it. No, I think that's it. We looked at the surveys as to why guys are not signing up anymore. And like the top, the top item was fear of death, which is okay. Yes, normal, but for centuries and guys have been getting past that and signing up anyway, but they're not. So what, what is it? I mean, I think it has to do with a lot of things. I think, I think it had to do with the forced vaxes.

1:24:02I think it has to do with the woke agenda. I mean, nobody, I mean, talk about miscalculating your body of work. I mean, it is not liberal Democrat families that sign up for the military. It is middle class to low class conservative families, and you just alienated your entire base. Nobody wants to do that. Nobody wants to go to become a SEAL, to be going to gender ideology crash courses and pronoun training or whatever the hell else they're doing in there, how not to be a right-wing extremist. Deal with your white rage. Yeah, yeah. And I mean, I think it's that. I think it's the way the war's ended.

1:24:54I think It's the new advertising that they do for recruitment. She's a lesbian. Her mothers are LGBTQ. It's everything. Everything about what the messaging they're putting out is, who are they going to get? Right. I mean, the numbers are at record lows, and we are precariously perched on possible conflict. God forbid in Ukraine, the United States doesn't want any part of that. God forbid the Middle East. And they're still talking about Taiwan. Like it's like, I don't like, we might actually get involved over there. I was talking to a former Navy SEAL, whose name you would know. And he was like, we're not going to win the Taiwan thing.

1:25:44Like they're going to take it. China's going to take it. And there's not much we're going to be able to do about it without actually getting involved militarily boots on the ground. And the American people aren't going to want that. Like if China takes it, his analysis was, we're going to have to let him take it. I mean, we'll probably provoke him to take it just to start another war, just to spin up the military industrial complex more than it already is. And I mean, that seems to be what we do is we provoke, you know, and then capitalize. Can you zoom out on that, Sean? Do that, like, explain that to me because I understand people throw that term around, military industrial complex.

1:26:22But you understand it better than most. Yeah. So the military, I mean, let's take it back to the Iraq war. I don't think we should have been there. At the time, I think, yeah, it was great. I got action. I got to do what I signed up to do. We got to kill a bunch of bad guys. Now that I'm older and I'm out and I see a bigger picture, I mean, I just think it's kind of weird that Dick Cheney was the CEO of Halliburton. Halliburton was the biggest logistics. not the biggest, probably the only logistics company in both wars. And so everywhere you went, it was Halliburton did the laundry. Halliburton did the gas.

1:27:04Halliburton built the barracks. Halliburton built the chow hall. Halliburton cooked the food. Halliburton did, they did everything. The mail, everything. It was KBR Halliburton. He was the CEO of that. So all infrastructure in the entire Iraq war was Halliburton, who is the former CEO, is the vice president of the United States. That's what we're getting at. Then there's Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, Northrop Grumman, and all of these. They make a lot of the tech and the missiles and the planes and all of these sorts of things, guns, communications equipment. Everything that is new that's being developed, it's not the government developing it.

1:28:02It's these companies that get paid ungodly amounts of money to fund, to develop things you would use in war. And then they put people like Nikki Haley on their boards. Exactly. I mean, she not only was on the Boeing board, but she has a husband who's making military vehicles right now. That's his side business where he's making the vehicles that will be used in war, which they profit off of. Yeah. This is what you're talking about. And then she, you know, in her world was about to step into the presidency and what, have zero conflicts? Yeah, yeah. Or, you know, like Ukraine. I mean, we send all of our stuff over, all of our missiles, our tanks, our UAVs, our javelins, whatever, fill in the blank.

1:28:54And so now we have to replenish all the stockpiles, which is making these companies. It's given the companies work to make more money. And that's what this – I'm convinced that that's what this is all about. The saber rattling. And the reason the politicians do it is because these are big donors? Yeah. I mean I can't be – you would probably know more about that than I do. But, yeah, I mean, lobbying organizations, hey, look at all the people that are supporting what's going on in Ukraine and Russia. Still. Yeah. Still. And why were we in Afghanistan for 20-plus years just to completely abandon it?

1:29:43There were so many things we could have used there. We gave up Bagram Air Force Base, one of the most strategic air force bases in the world. Afghanistan has endless amounts of lithium that we could utilize for our green initiative, right? But we'll just give those over to China and let them sell us the lithium, even though we had built all the infrastructure there and they're already mining it. Why? Why would we do that? Why would we give it up? Yeah, because we made a decision to cut and run, and that was the decision we were going to live by. I guess. I mean, I can't find any logic. I mean, the problem is on that one, both parties are to blame, right?

1:30:26I mean, Trump came up with a plan, and then Biden executed it terribly. Yeah. But I mean, Trump, too, wanted to pull us out of there and not keep anything. I mean, I realized we were over a war. And I mean, the forever wars are a real thing. and people who grew up, I mean, I'm a little older than you are, but both of us grew up in a time where in the beginnings, we thought these are just wars and we're serving a worthy cause here. And we understand why the United States is doing it. It's only having sort of been in the midst of this like belief and then seeing it all crash down and then seeing the aftermath that you realize I was sold a bag of goods.

1:31:04Yeah, yeah. It's really interesting if you can take yourself out of the, you know, the politics and, and, and your emotional state and look at these things from like a 30 ,000 foot view and it might paint a different perspective. And, you know, maybe, maybe we aren't the good guys.

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1:32:39What do you think will happen with Ukraine? I mean, at what point does the United States say they're not, they can't win. This is throwing good money after bad and get more aggressive about forcing some sort of compromised end to this thing. man what do i think will happen in ukraine i think i mean i think a change in the presidency could possibly end it ours or ukraine's ours i don't think theirs will ever i mean why would you not now yeah why would you so much they're getting so much out of this but um i'm just saying like i don't know that the ukrainian people are as insane as zelensky seems with his you know no compromise we're gonna see it through to the end all your people will be dead.

1:33:24Yeah, yeah. I don't know. I mean, I think...

1:33:31I think this BRICS thing has a lot... I think that things will get interesting when China starts making more moves. That's what I think. I don't think any of these wars are going anywhere. Should we have nothing to do with that? With... Taiwan, China. Man, you're asking some tough questions. Um, that's one I think we would probably need to step in on. Actually step in though. I mean, do you agree boots on the ground will be required? How are we going to fight that one from drones?

1:34:09How are we going to fight that? I think that, I don't know. So definitely a lot of Navy. That's right. We don't have enough ships. A lot of Navy. And I think all of our allies would need to come together to, I mean, I think that, I mean, I personally think we're on the brink of World War III. With China. Yeah. Over Taiwan? I mean, look at all the angles they have on us. You know, they are behind the fentanyl crisis. They're sending in all the supplies. They're trading the cartels how to make the world's most potent fentanyl. Actually, now they're teaching them how to make Nidacin, which so went from what, heroin to fentanyl to Nidacin.

1:35:07They're behind that. They're buying all our farmland. They're capturing all of our elites, politicians, and just tech gurus. I mean— Not to mention the spying. Yeah. I mean, we have our—I mean, yeah, that's out there, right? What's-his-name was sleeping with a Chinese spy. Eric Swalwell, right? I get my far-left Democrats confused. I can't remember his name, but— Yeah, that's who it was. But, I mean, they have so—I mean, look at California. From what I understand, all the real estate signs now are all in Chinese. And I've always wondered, I mean, you see this massive migration happening all across the country with red states being inundated with people fleeing California, New York, Chicago.

1:35:59And I've always wondered, you know, who's buying all this real estate over there? If everybody's leaving, who's buying all this real estate? They're selling it to China. We rolled out the red carpet for them when it came to visit. Their takeover of Hollywood. Yeah. The NBA. Yeah. They have more money than God when it comes to buying things that are American or American-owned. You know, their own people can suffer. But they're very interested in spending tons of money buying up our industries and our land. And we're just suckers for the dollar. So we say yes. You know, that's why the NBA said, sure, we'll do whatever you want and we won't criticize you.

1:36:42That's why Hollywood takes anything they find offensive out of its films so they can make money over in China on the sales there. We've bent the knee to our Chinese masters. So you're right. It's happening. And more and more people just aren't paying attention. They're living their lives, not paying attention. I mean, a little bit more here and there. It's happening all over the world. I mean, look what they're doing in Africa. You know, they're settling Africa. They are the influence in Afghanistan now. I mean, they have - They go in with their money and they make these countries dependent on them.

1:37:13And that used to be us. That used to be the United States being the leader of the free world and being out there helping the third world countries and creating some loyalty and some allyship. We're not doing that anymore, but China is. You're exactly right. And then it's just, I mean, that right there alone shows how many angles they have. And I know there's more. I'm just put on the spot. It's scary to think about. It is. You know, it's very scary. And I don't think people understand, you know, how pertinent it is that we need to start addressing this stuff like yesterday. I mean, the one thing we have going for us is their economy is not strong.

1:37:59That's what I keep hearing. But I hear both sides, you know, and I don't, I mean, they have so much influence across the world now. And their version, I mean, the BRICS initiative, you're aware of the BRICS initiative, you know, and devaluing our currency. And I think the last time I checked, there's like 22 countries on board that now. Yeah. And there's it's a sketchy crew, but they have a lot of money. Yeah. So now more than ever, we need new up and coming the next generation of Sean Ryans. Yeah, I guess so. So what do you do? Trump's got to win. And people have to see America as strong again.

1:38:46And maybe you'll be a little afraid of us. You know, I mean, that's the New York Times just did a poll showing that Trump's beating Biden in five out of the six swing states, same as it was in November, by a healthy margin in most of them. And they were so befuddled by their own poll. They went back to their to the people who responded to say, like, why? Why again? What is it? Really? The orange man? He's so bad. How could you? Insurrectionist. And in particular, it was interesting because they went to some black voters saying, we don't get it. Why are your numbers surging? And they said, oh, you know, we don't love Trump.

1:39:21He's got a big mouth. He says some stuff we don't like, but he's strong. And I think the country's going to be a little safer with him in there. It keeps people off balance. And then others said, the economy, I don't need to like him. I need my wallet to be a little fatter. And it was. They just did some look back and the economy was like definably 16 % more was going into people's average paychecks under Trump than it is now. so yeah we need a strong leader there's a chance we won't get one it's not a lock trump wins robert kennedy also anti-military industrial complex could you ever vote for him i think i could vote for him could you yeah i definitely could vote for him he's too left for me on many many issues but i'm not as hardcore conservative as like a lot of my audience um i love that he's kind of anti-establishment, anti-military industrial complex, anti-big pharma, that he's an environmental lawyer.

1:40:20I'm actually, I'm kind of green. I like the green agenda, not the green new deal or any of that nonsense. But like, I, as a mother, you know, I would like to see us be a little bit more realistic about climate change. You know, that's, that's something I love talking about this, you know, because you, you do something positive for the planet and conservatives like throw a shit fit. Yes. And it's like, Hey man, we live here. Right. In case you haven't noticed, everybody's dying of cancer. Cancer from shit in our foods, cancer from shit in the air, cancer from everything. It might be good for us to improve the planet a little bit, but that's just my take.

1:40:59What if we had a RFKJ in there saying, don't eat that, don't do that, that's not getting a blessing anymore, this is a problem over here. He spent his whole life filing lawsuits against people who are polluting our environment. in one way, shape, or form. I love that. I realize, I mean, he said he would allow abortion until the ninth month, then he walked it back. He's not good on my issue, which is women's rights against the crazy trans lobby, but I have more issues than just that. So I definitely could vote for RRKJ. I just asked him about the full-term abortion thing. I just interviewed him last week, and he told me that the only reason that he would go full-term would be for the mother if she was going to die, if there was a life-threatening situation.

1:41:46So he's arrived at that a little late. Yeah. He told Sage Steele, it's up to the mom. Okay. Whatever she wants all the way through ninth month. And then Sage, who's amazing, was like, a lot of us get uncomfortable when you say it's okay for a mother just based on her own desire to abort a baby at full term. And he answered it again, saying, well, I would. Oh, really? But then all the shitstorm came and he walked it back. It was like, oh, oh, oh, never mind. Gotcha. I mean, I understand if that's your biggest issue, and it is for a lot of, you know, deeply faithful people in particular. He's out.

1:42:20Yeah. But anyway, it all depends on your hierarchy of, you know, principles. And I just, I love how anti-establishment he is. Me too, man. Me too. So speaking of faith, you are, you've had a bit of a metamorphosis in your own life. I have. On this front. Is that because of Katie or is that your own journey? That's my own journey. And do you want me to go into it? Yeah. Okay.

1:42:52Well, so I interviewed some really, I have some really heavy interviews. Tyler Andrew Vargas was one of them. And I mean, it's been a long time since I've seen that. And to see a 24-year-old, you know, my studio's on the second floor, and to watch him hobble up there with one leg, one arm, you know, it's just, it got to me. And the day before I interviewed him, I interviewed a hacker who had hacked into all these websites and pedophilia websites and downloaded all the user lists. Got it to the FBI. The FBI did nothing with it until I interviewed him. And super dark interview. uh the the reality is i mean we we pulled we caught a child predator in five seconds because i didn't realize i was like you hear about this stuff right and how how common it is but you don't i don't i didn't see it and so he's in there and we're doing the interview and i said hey you got your laptop pull it out get in any i don't care what it is instagram tiktok whatever team chat room you won.

1:44:13I just want to see how long this takes. He made the screen name Ashley 13, New Jersey. Literally five seconds. It's on camera. We screen recorded. Until he was in like a room where. Five seconds before a 40 something year old man was wanting to meet a 13 year old girl at a wherever. Sick. Yeah. And so, so that's, that's what I, I mean, this is the stuff that I cover. And And so me and my wife were going on vacation. I just finished up those two interviews, especially the one with Ryan Montgomery, who's the hacker. That just really got to me. You know, the kids stuff really gets to me. The guys who work in that industry shutting those down.

1:44:58Yeah. It's a very hard life. Yeah. And so we went to Sedona, and there was also what else was happening. The Chinese spy balloon just flew over. Um, the, I saw, I think it was, was it Reba came out saying, no, I think it's freedom of speech that, that, uh, drag queens should be able to, you know, show up at your town library kids. And I got to this point where I was like, man, am I the only person that gives a shit about this stuff, that actually cares about kids, and why we just abandoned our allies in Afghanistan, and why is there a 24-year-old that was blown up unnecessarily? I mean, they had the guy PID'd in his sights.

1:45:47They could have killed that bomber, and now all of his friends are dead. And so these are all the things that are going through my head. And I had hit this point. I was having a conversation in my head, and I had hit this point where it was like, why do you even talk about this stuff anymore? Nobody cares. You know about the maps thing, minor attracted persons. Yes, they're trying to redefine pedophilia into this minor attracted person normal, just like a fetish. Some people have a foot fetish. Some people have a toddler fetish and we're supposed to accept this. Yeah. And, you know, and so I'm just seeing all these things and I'm like, how can anybody like buy into this shit?

1:46:36I have family that like votes left, you know, and it gets to me. It makes my skin crawl. Like I can't, I don't understand how anybody can support any of the, what I just list rattled off. And so it got to me and I got to this point where I was like, I'm not, I can't like, I can't live like this anymore. Like I can't, if nobody gives a shit, maybe I'm, maybe I am the one that is, maybe I'm the one that has something wrong with it. You know, maybe, maybe this is all acceptable and I just, I'm not, my brain isn't switching. Maybe I'm the problem. and I shouldn't be fighting this anymore. I need to be happy.

1:47:23And it basically felt like I was surrendering to evil and I was trying to convince myself to be fine with it. So we're staying in this nice resort in Sedona. They got a guarded gate and I pay attention to that kind of stuff because of my background. and a lot of the guys knew me that worked in there from my podcast and wanted to talk. Well, we were there for a week. The last day I walked through, and it's this old man in there, and he's wanted to talk to me. Me and my wife had gone up to a hike because I was like, I've got to get the hell out of here. Maybe a hike will make me feel better. I walked back down, and this guy starts trying to talk to me.

1:48:12It's dark at this point. and I had already kind of surrendered, like I'm done. I didn't feel good, but I had kind of made my decision, like I'm not doing this anymore. And I'm kind of looking at him over the shoulder like, I'm not in the mood to like strike up a conversation. But my wife starts talking to him and I'm like, shit, I just want to go to my room. So I turn around and this guy, this guy read my mind. from front to back and i mean like i've never had that happen it wasn't it i mean it was descriptive it was it scared the shit out of me because i was like how are you how how are you in my head and uh he started rattling off all these thoughts that i was having on that entire hike and he's like this stuff that's going on in china that's not your fight anymore and this stuff that's going on with the kids, that's not your fight either.

1:49:14And this stuff that's going on with the trans community, that's not your fight. And I had shut down. I was like, how is this guy in my head right now? So freaked me out. We're walking back to our bungalow. We were in a place where it was kind of like a duplex. And we're on one side, somebody else on another side. We got there. When we got to Sedona, my best friend that I was referring to earlier, his name's Gabe, he died of a heroin overdose later on. But Gabe was a SEAL. Gabe was a pro hockey player. Gabe was a fighter. He was into MMA. Gabe was at the agency with me. And no matter where Gabe was, Gabe was always known as a protector.

1:50:04like no matter what unit he was in no matter what who he was with could be the the the manliest of all men like everybody knows gabe has got you and and he was my best friend well we get there and we see this guy and he looks identical he could be gabe's identical twin i mean you could see differences but same brow line same jaw line same build same walk same three-day shadow same everything muscular. And me and my wife were both like, man, that looks exactly like Gabe. And everywhere we would go, this guy was at. If we were at the pool, this guy was at the pool. If we were going on a hike, this guy was coming back from a hike.

1:50:49If we were out in town getting dinner, he was out in town getting dinner. And we had always thought it was weird because I kind of had a breakdown on the plane to Sedona. And so I was in a vulnerable spot. My wife knew it. I was in a vulnerable spot. I knew it. I was with my buddy Dave and he knew it. And it was just odd that Gabe, who's always known as a protector, is like every, this guy that looks identical to him is everywhere. Well, it turns out right from that gate, we walked to our bungalow and it turns out this guy and his family is staying right across the thing from us. We hadn't seen him all week.

1:51:33And I'm like, that was weird. And on the way back, I'm telling Katie, I'm like, holy shit. Like, I think that was God that was reading my mind. And she's like, yeah, Sean, that was God. And I'm like, I can't believe this. Like, how is this happening? And she's like, Sean, God's always been around you. You just don't make time for him. and uh i knew that to be true so we get to the bungalow gabe staying across the way or the the lookalike whatever uh you want to call it he's we find out he's staying right across this is all within like 10-15 minutes then we go in and i i'm i'm crying and i'm like i can't believe this is happening and right before also right before we went to zona uh a good friend of mine uh his name was Dan Cirillo died.

1:52:23He was kind of the only, he was a SEAL and a businessman and he lived in Franklin. And I don't have a lot of people that I can relate to where I live now in Franklin. And Dan is one of those guys that, that he's very successful. He owned a couple of hospitals.

1:52:49He And he's like one of the few people that I can sit down with and talk business and talk friends. And he doesn't need anything from me. And I don't need anything from him. And those, you know, those relationships get hard to come by. And so we hit it off really fast. And then he died on a hunting trip with his son, had a heart attack. Oh, God. And, but hey, I mean, if there's a way to go, good on him. But anyways, his daughter, who I had never met, I'm having this breakdown in the hotel. And his daughter, I heard my phone go off while I was talking to Katie. And as soon as we kind of finished what we were talking about, about what was going on, I checked my phone.

1:53:35And it's from his daughter.

1:53:41And it's this text. I'd never even met her before, and she says, she must have got my number from her dad's phone, and she said, hey, Sean, this is Taylor, Dan's daughter, and I just walked into my dad's gun room for the first time since he had passed away, and he grabbed me by the arm and told me that I needed to contact you because you knew a side of him that nobody else knew. and that he wanted me to tell you that he loves you just the way that you are and that you're doing exactly what you should be doing. And then I'm trying not to lose it right now. But so that was like the third thing all within, like I said, 10, 15 minutes.

1:54:36And I was like, holy shit, like there's no denying this one. Exactly. Exactly. Hello, brick wall. Yeah. And so, you know, I grew up Catholic and never really took church seriously. I never did. And then when I left home, I never really went back and had kind of lost faith. And I'm not saying I wasn't a believer. I just didn't really care. I didn't think about it. And I had definitely no time for God. And so I took that as a, I mean, that was like a slap in the face. And I had decided I needed to get serious about faith and at least look into it. And so I started looking into it. And it's been great.

1:55:22And, you know, to be honest, it's the only thing I can find that makes any damn sense anymore. And it's all in that book. Everything we're seeing happening right now is in that book. Is that how you started, just reading the Bible? I did. I did. I started trying to read it from front to back and I wasn't really getting anywhere. And then - Some shocking stuff in that Old Testament. Yeah. If you go that way. Yeah. But then turns out, as it turns out, my entire team, I'm really close with my team, my podcast team, the guys that work for me and make it what it is. and turns out one guy was raised Southern Baptist, super well-versed in the Bible.

1:56:05My editor, Darren, grew up a Jehovah's Witness and escaped it, but knows that book from front to back. My IT guy, Adam, devout Catholic, knows it all. Everything, Elijah, my production manager, He's the Southern Baptist guy. And they kind of started pouring into me. And a lot of my buddies that were in the SEAL teams, Eddie Penny really kind of paved the way for all of this, I think. Eddie Penny was a, we were a team two together. And then he went on to Dev Group. And just like a mom. Like, I mean, not who you would expect to come to faith. But he was my Christmas episode a couple years ago. And ever since he came on and gave his testimony of how he came to, everybody that's been on the show has brought it up.

1:57:11And he became kind of a mentor of mine. So I called Eddie and told him. And I said, hey, this is what happened. I don't really know where to start. I don't really know what this means. and we had a conversation and he goes, he was like, oh man, he's like a lot of us have been praying for this to happen. Wow. And that kind of freaked me out. I was like, well, what do you mean? And he's like, we've been waiting for this. He's like, you have a big voice and this needs to happen. And so that was at about midnight. Now I'm getting into some other kind of weird synchronicity coincidences. And so about 12 hours later, I had a meeting that Adam, my IT guy, had scheduled with me at noon.

1:58:04And Eddie was telling me during the conversation, he was talking about guardian angels and all this other stuff, spiritual warfare, stuff that I'd known nothing about. Well, fast forward 12 hours, I'm talking to Adam. I didn't know what this meeting was. I thought it was about email marketing or something. And he wanted to talk to me about spiritual warfare and guardian angels. Wow. And I was like, it was literally like almost the exact same conversation as I had had with Eddie Penny. You're like, that's not on the drop-down menu of message manager, meeting manager. I know, you know, and they're not friends.

1:58:41I mean, Adam is, with all due respect. They hadn't coordinated those two guys? Eddie is a built like a shit brick house, a dev group operator. And Adam is a IT computer nerd who I love to death. And so, no, they don't. They don't. There's no cross pollination. They're not friends. I've never spoken. Exact same conversation at noon. Come home for lunch from my studio to be with the wife and kids. And Adam. And anyways, I go back to work. I look at my clock in my truck, and it says it's 444. I look at the odometer. It says 444 miles left to E. And this is four hours and 44 minutes after my conversation with Adam about guardian angels.

1:59:30So I look up the meaning of 444, and it is your guardian angels want you to know that they have got you. And I'm just, I'm like, holy shit, man. Like we just had two conversations about guardian angels and now I'm saying 444 everywhere within. You saw Gabe. Yeah. And it's in the meaning of it supposedly according to Google is your guardian angels want you to know that they've got you. And so I've been in it ever since, and I've had some great mentors and started going to church. That didn't last very long. And now we have a group of, there's four families, including us, a lot of trust, very close friends of ours.

2:00:25And we just have a discussion every week, every Tuesday. day. So when I get home today, that's, that's, that's what we're doing. And, uh, it's cool. You get to ask the tough questions. You can't, you don't need to be embarrassed. You're not going to offend anybody. You don't feel judged. Like you're going to church. Everybody, you know, I always feel like I'm being judged. Oh, hello. We're Catholic. Yeah. Built in. And, uh, and there's none of that. And, um, man, you know, when you, when you kind of take all of the BS, that religion kind of injects into your journey of building a relationship with the creator and Jesus, it's really interesting and it can be a lot of fun.

2:01:11I know what you're saying. My audience knows I've been having a not unrelated struggle on that exact score. Really? Yeah, yeah. I'm Catholic, lifelong Catholic, and I started the process of having my first marriage annulled And instead of bringing me closer to God or setting me in a path that I thought would land well, it really has kind of alienated me. And it's caused a bit of a crisis of faith. Who are these middlemen I have to go through in order to have a clean relationship with God? That doesn't make any sense to me. I think God loves me and God sees me in a loving marriage with three wonderful kids who have two great parents who are in love.

2:01:56and he's thrilled and he will accept me into his kingdom when it's all said and done. And if he doesn't, it's certainly not going to be because I didn't get a paper, I got a paper divorce from Dan, but I didn't get an annulment from a priest, you know, and then Mary dug in a Catholic church. It doesn't make any sense to me. So that's sort of where I am right now. I'm still wrestling with it. I got tons of great feedback, by the way, thank you to my audience because so many thoughtful emails on it, from Catholic listeners, but also just Christian listeners who don't believe in that middleman thing either.

2:02:33I haven't resolved it. Well, I'll keep my opinion to myself. Why? The middleman is a lie. There are no middlemen. It's just about you and your relationship. And that's it. They'll let you know that. And when you think like that, I mean, it gives me a sense of peace, you know. And then you start looking at all the stuff that's going on, like Trans Visibility Day being declared on Easter Sunday. Like, you can't tell me these aren't signs, you know. And this is all, like I said, this is all in there. I'm still reading through it. I'm not through it all yet. I don't claim to be an expert, but, you know, I see things.

2:03:22I have a team to lean on who's well-versed in this stuff. That was very fortunate. And everything we're seeing happen is in that book. And when you come to that realization, it's really odd. But all the stuff that like all the stuff that was bothering me and it still does bother me. But at the same time, it makes me stronger because. Up. That was supposed to happen. You know, up. That's in that book. Up. Like, really, like Trans Visibility Day, a confusion of genders on Easter Sunday, making a mockery of the resurrection. Like that was in there. Yep. and uh and uh so so how do you feel now do you feel a difference physically you know emotionally oh yeah now versus during the chinese trial balloon period which was dark definitely i mean i'm at uh i'm at peace with it i mean i'm still gonna fight the good fight and i'm still gonna bring truth and uncover corruption and tell these stories and i'm not gonna bend a need to anything.

2:04:35And, and, uh, and, but you know, it, it, but seeing it all happen, it's, it is actually making me stronger because I found something in a world of nothing that makes any sense at all, not a damn bit of sense. This makes all the sense in the world. It's, it aligns with the values that I've always had, or maybe I align with its values, you know, but, um, but it, yeah, that's helped me. And, uh, and then you start learning about, you know, maybe forgiveness is for you and not for the people that did something bad to you that was unjust. You know, it's, it's, it's for your sense of peace, not for theirs.

2:05:23You know, you can, you can go on and waste all that bad energy, hating somebody and talking shit about them and, you know, complaining and, no, I got screwed over and I'm a victim and da, da, da, da, da. But the minute you forgive them, that's off your plate. And it just, it's like a cleanse. Amen.

2:05:49God bless you. Thank you so much for coming on and telling your story and all these personal details about your life. What a pleasure. What an honor to know you. Well, thank you. Thank you for having me. And like I said, I was really excited to meet you and just happy to be here. I'm honored. And honestly, God bless you. Thank you for your service. Thanks to all of our military members, active duty and retired, and those we've lost for the service and sacrifice. We appreciate it. God bless you, too. I hope this is a first of many, Sean. Me, too. It was amazing. Thank you.

2:06:33Hey everyone, it's Stavros Halkis and I'm here to tell you about my podcast, Stavis World. Each week we're joined by great guests like Josh Safdie, Eric Andre, Caleb Heron, and more. It's sort of an interview show, but really, we're just messing around, making each other laugh, and hopefully making you laugh while you're washing the dishes or grocery shopping or on a long drive. Plus, I take listener calls where we have honest conversations about dating life and everything in between. Imagine if your therapist was a vulgar degenerate whose office was in a Greek diner. No scripts, no polish, and absolutely no holding back.

2:07:07Listen to Stavi's World wherever you get your podcasts. Game day at my place is kind of a big deal. If I'm grilling, chilling, and watching hoops, my outdoor patio setup better be ready to play. That's where Wayfair wins. From patio seating and umbrellas to grills and grilling accessories, wayfair has got it all and it shows up fast i'm talking championship level fast and easy delivery so level up your grill game and your outdoor chill game and head to wayfair.com now to get your outdoor space ready for the season we have an amazing show for you here we've got charlie sheen and we couldn't wait to talk to charlie sheen and we taped a conversation with charlie Sheen on Tuesday of this week.

2:07:56And he was amazing, like completely honest and full of candor and self-deprecating and very reflective about the incredible life he's had. And we had always planned with his team, they're doing a press rollout around his book and his documentary on Netflix to air it on Friday. Well, as you know, something massive happened in the country between Tuesday and Friday involving another Charlie. And we asked ourselves what to do about the Charlie Sheen interview. And in the end, we've decided to put it out because I think we need it. I think it's good. We can't spend every moment in darkness and thinking about the awfulness that happened on Thursday.

2:08:40We can't. I'm losing track of my days on Wednesday. We can't and we shouldn't. We should take a moment to watch a silly comedy or listen to a podcast about decorating. I don't take your pick sports. Um, we have to continue on with our lives somewhat normally. And so we are going to air this. We also have an hour long program that we're airing in tribute to Charlie Kirk, but I think you'll enjoy this hour with Charlie Sheen. I really did. I did not expect to like him as much as I did, and I just adore the guy now, and I think you will too. So enjoy. Charlie Sheen is an American actor and an icon.

2:09:24His life has been a wild ride. Born to father actor Martin Sheen. What do you care if your brother ditches school? He achieved success seemingly overnight and went on to star in films like Platoon, Wall Street, and The Rookie. You want a do-over? No, I don't want a do-over. He eventually became the highest paid actor in television history as a star on the beloved sitcom Two and a Half Men. I am on a drug. It's called Charlie Sheen. But all of that success came with challenges, addiction and tumultuous relationships. Now Charlie Sheen is eight years sober and back to tell his story his own way.

2:10:01His new memoir, The Book of Sheen, tells all. And we do mean all. All we're ready to go. And a new Netflix documentary released at the same time, aka Charlie Sheen, hits this week too. I lit the fuse, you know, and my life turns into everything it wasn't supposed to be. I've read the book, I've watched the documentary, and I could not recommend both more than I do. Charlie, welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you, man. It's an honor to be here. Thank you. I can't believe you didn't use a ghostwriter on this. thank you for the lovely intro firstly um you bet no i i uh there was talk of that early on and and i just thought that that wouldn't um that that wouldn't give me an opportunity to to to to deliver it um you know from the from the deepest reaches of myself you know um and and i and i knew that that it would to the reader that it would it would feel uh counterfeit you know no you can tell it's you.

2:11:04I mean, your voice resonates, comes right off the page. And then if you read it while you're watching the documentary, it just validates that it's a hundred percent you. It's all you. I feel like I know you so well now having read this and watch this. And here's where I want to kick it off. Um, it seems like, you know, the addiction, I said to myself, who is Charlie Sheen? Like, what do I think of when I think of Charlie Sheen? Yes. Icon, huge star addict, of course, is one of the words, but truly also a genius. And those things are not unusually paired. It's not unusual to see those things together.

2:11:38But it seems like there was a feeling of inadequacy in, let's say, Carlos Estevez versus Charlie Sheen, the icon movie star that we know now. And my question in watching the film and reading the book was, where did that come from? And I'll just give you my own pitch on it. You tell me whether I have anything like the truth here. You had a very famous father. You then had a very famous brother, both of whom went before you and became famous in your brother's case or were famous in your dad's when you were, you know, not. You were just a regular kid. And I think it probably had a profound effect on you being around that level of wealth and attention directed at people around you, but not at you that maybe planted some seeds that weren't potentially healthy for you in the long haul.

2:12:30What do you make of my theory? I think your theory is more than just a theory. I think you've tapped into some very solid truths about what motivated me or at least what drove me like it did. Because for so long, I was Martin Sheen's son. And then you add to that, and Emilio Estevez's brother. And it just got to the point where... and then, you know, growing up on dad sets and then going out with Emilio and his crew of newly famed-minted actors that he was making all his movies with and just seeing the type of energy and the type of access and the type of fun and mischief that they all had such limitless access to that I just, I wanted a taste of it so badly.

2:13:41And, and, and it was, it felt so close yet at the same time, it was, it was, it was light years out of reach, you know? Yeah. Because just because you have fame in the family doesn't mean it's going to happen for you. And so even trying for it was pretty bold on your part, but your story is not one of somebody who knew he had to be an actor. You had the thespian gene. You were going to see it through. It was kind of like just happened. And then it happened really quickly. Yeah, no, I got a little bit of a warm-up. I'd done a couple films that nobody really cared about. I was just trying to get a SAG card, just trying to be a consistently employed actor and just kind of go from one job to the next and hopefully leave some good work behind.

2:14:29and then just, you know, I guess stuff happens when it's supposed to or at times how it's supposed to and, you know, this cameo just falls out of the sky into my lap and that was the film Ferris Bueller's Day Off. What do you care if your brother ditches school? Why should he get to ditch when everybody else has to go? You could ditch. Gosh, I'm only on film, like probably less than three minutes. And even having done a couple of lead roles in forgettable films before that, and then that thing hits. And it's that thing I talk about in the book where the day before in the grocery store, the girls thought I worked there, you know, and then Bueller hits.

2:15:20And I'm no longer wearing that imaginary Vons vest, you know. Well, I love the story behind that. So Jennifer Gray did you a solid. She got you the audition. Yeah, she did. And you nonetheless showed up late. You tried to stay up all night so you could look weathered and tired like your character and got a little too method, overslept the alarm, show up an hour and a half late. Jennifer Gray is like, what the hell, man? But it was a very interesting story you tell. You're very insightful about how John Hughes, you saw him and you expected he was just going to throw you out of there and you got something different.

2:15:58I thought he would continue the drubbing that she had initiated. But with him, it came to a Flintstones halt. And he just, like I say in the doc and the book, when he just took one look at me, he literally just said, oh, good, you're here. Let's get started. And just what that did for just calming my nerves and my confidence and just knowing that I was, you know, in the presence of a man that didn't care about anything that led up to the moment that he needed to, you know, get his director brain around, you know. And then it's pretty cool. In the movie, you can still see Jennifer. You can still see the trailing effects of some of her ire and the animosity.

2:16:54Definitely. Yes. No, she was great in that scene, too. And you stole the scene. And you could argue you stole the movie. And I thought about that with John Hughes. And I thought, okay, I understand why he did it. Because you walk in, you're very good looking. You are like oozing the right attitude for this guy. He's like, this is my guy. I need him in this scene. And I think that would come back to help you many times. your movie star appeal, your good looks, your charm. But it wasn't always a force for good. Like these things that would get you a pass from people like John Hughes that happened to you repeatedly in your life sound good on paper, but like maybe weren't because gave you a feeling of invincibility, like you could get away with anything.

2:17:43And maybe that wasn't such a great thing for the other piece of Charlie Sheen, which is the addict piece. Yeah, no, certainly it was not a great thing. I mean, it's nice to be forgiven. Obviously, it's nice to be given second chances and all that good stuff. And we touch on this in the doc a little bit. But what was interesting that even after not the biggest disasters or, you know, the furthest falls, but there was a pattern of, you know, fucking things up, sending shit off the rails. and then having a job literally on the other side of that event once I had, you know, once I dusted myself off and, you know, got back ready to work.

2:18:38So, yeah, so, but, you know, I think there's two sides to that. That didn't mean I had to take those jobs, but it also didn't mean that they always had to be there. Does that make any sense? I kind of went completely around that. I get it. But I just think opportunity kept coming your way because you really do have true genius in this field. You can see it in the parts you play. You embody these characters. It seems to come easy to you. To us lay people, it certainly does. And yet the universal rewards for those talents may not be a good thing. This kind of dawned on me while I was reading the book.

2:19:19being universally rewarded for these preternatural gifts, whether it's appearance or abilities, could in some ways be a devil on your back because a life without consequences can lead to some bad choices and a false feeling of invincibility. Of course it can. Of course it can. Yeah. And there's also, there's this thing about, you know, not having to deal with with a ton of failure at first. You know, there's a little piece in the book where I mentioned that they teach us as kids if at first, you know, you don't succeed, you try, try again. If at first you do succeed, that's where that saying ends because it was never written.

2:20:05It doesn't exist, you know? And then it's like even talking about, you know, watching dad, you know, with his ascent to stardom and his brilliant career and then watching Emilio, So it's, you know, I thought that I would have a handle on what that might feel like once, you know, were I fortunate for it to happen to me as well. Even on a smaller scale at, you know, just a fraction of what they'd achieved. But there's no way to really prepare anyone for it. There's no way to, I guess in some way it'd be like asking Barry Bonds or Hank Aaron what it actually feels like to hit a home run. They can describe the mechanics of it, but they can't really ever put you inside a moment that you have to inhabit to truly own that experience.

2:21:02And so watching it and then living it was a whole different reality. But then it's nice to have people you can check in with and say, hey, okay, so this happened with the thing. And then I saw how you dealt with that. And then any recommendations, any ideas. But even the advice sometimes, it's well-intentioned, but that doesn't mean that it's going to be useful. and I don't mean that dismissively just that that you know giving people advice for things that they have to experience yeah um doesn't work is that is that is that making sense is that yeah we all learn that as parents we all learn that as parents you know you want to spare your kids all the pain and anguish you experienced by telling them the life lessons you learned and I mean I've concluded 15 years in a motherhood it's not a complete waste of time but it's really close to a waste of time.

2:21:59They have to make their own mistakes in order to really learn the lessons. Sure. It's pretty close to a waste of time. That's brilliant. Pretty close. I can see, like I'm sure Martin Sheen was like, Charlie, I'll walk you through exactly how to handle these massive challenges. You know, he's a huge star, big movie star in his day, Apocalypse Now. And he's probably thinking, I can spare you so much grief. And then you learn the hard way, oh God, he's going to need to experience grief his own way. And it's going to be really public too, in your case. But isn't it interesting in, in, in the book, there's those, there's those early examples of that.

2:22:37He was the, the, the, the, the, the, you know, the voice of advice that I would seek. He, he was the guy that I would go to. And, and, you know, the thing that happened with the karate kid, the thing that happened with that early MGM deal. And he, He was the guy I would go to. And then, of course, you know, when it came to Platoon and he advised against that as well is when I finally told him, I said, I got to just I got to roll the dice on this one. because you were offered the lead role in karate kid ultimately played by ralph macchio and you turned it down for some film with the word grizzly in it where yeah you and a very young george clooney and a young laura dern would make a movie no no one would ever remember whatsoever and your dad had told you you needed to say no to karate kid because you had committed to this other film yeah yeah i mean it's not the worst advice in the world if you just break it down just into the into the credo that that he was you know intended just the the the noble essence of of what he was trying to get me to to to to pursue you know or or or or to recognize you know um so but yeah that was a hard one to watch and you know go get eaten by a bear and then watch ralph you know do with that but again but then i heard you you say this in the documentary you know no no offense to ralph machio but like he was kind of typecast after that and ralph did not go on to become some huge hollywood movie star like you did but he still had a really respectable and terrific career and still does great work to this day you know yeah but if you think of the karate kid it's really difficult to picture anyone except him even if you've just seen the first one you know i don't think i had the skills or the tools or the mindset or anything at at that moment in time to pull off or bring to it what he was able to you know so i think the film would have been different or would have started with me and that it finally just went yeah yeah you know what let's let's go with that italian kid that we had a couple days ago you know so who knows instead of the spanish kid instead of the spanish kid you come from a long line of spanish people like a whole family like ramon he's in the in the documentary and emilio yeah your dad's name isn't really martin is very spanish do you connect at all with that piece of your lineage um just through stories and just through relatives and just, I don't, I don't, I don't go on the pilgrimages like my brother Ramon does and Emilio and dad.

2:25:26I guess I, I guess I lean more into the, into the Irish side of, of, of our, of our roots, you know? No offense taken. Yeah. I know exactly where you're going with that. I would say your love of beautiful women, that that's very Spanish. So like, maybe it's in you and in other ways that are, you know, more silent. All right. So now you get cast in Platoon. And this, too, was a role that was supposed to be Emilio's. This was a role that was supposed to go to somebody else that you got because of timing. And he took on another project. One thing led to another. So you wind up getting this role. And that was it, right?

2:26:03Platoon was the big before and after. Like, now I'm a household name. There's BP and there's AP. Do you ever get caught in the mistake that you just can't get out of? Yeah. Yeah, before Platoon, after Platoon. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you know, again, oh, hey, there's a nice photo. Johnny, what a trip. That's a great one. That feels like 100 lifetimes ago. You were a baby. Yeah, right. Yeah, we didn't know what we'd created. You know, we thought the vets would appreciate it. We thought, you know, we thought other filmmakers would think we'd given it, you know, taking a pretty good, pretty good shot at it.

2:26:47But no, we did not expect that the entire world was going to join in the celebration. You know, it was it was a pretty exciting time. The first real movie about the war in Vietnam is Platoon. Then you get the kind of fame that's like you walk into a football stadium and everybody knows you. not to mention you could sleep with any woman in there, which, you know, like that's very heady, hugely heady. And at the same time, you're hanging out with all these big stars. Like, I didn't know anything about your long friendship with Nick Cage. Hello. That's amazing. Yeah. And I think what's in the doc with Nicholas and myself and what's in the book, I think there's some really cool, really just memorable, you know, unforgettable stuff between us you know it's not all in there and that's just hey there we are and that's out of respect to him and myself and you know there's there's some stuff that it's just probably better that it just it stays between the people and exists only in that moment in time but i but i think there is enough there to to to just uh give a taste just give a vibe of of the kind of that the energy that that We were both, you know, it was weird.

2:28:04It's like we found each other right when we needed to. And it wasn't a competition thing, but we just, I think I talk about something in the book that, you know, something about we were both on the verge of complete fission and I brought the missing neutrons, you know, stuff like that. It's interesting. I just spoke with Nicholas about an hour ago today. And this dude, at 9.01 in L.A., knowing it was past midnight, East Coast, downloaded my audio book and listened to it. Like started it last night and finished it today and wrote to me, wrote this beautiful penning of just love and support. And he was just such passion and excitement.

2:29:02And I just, I called him and it was really, that was just like an hour ago, you know. Because when you write about people. So he didn't care about the disclosures you made. He did not care about the disclosures you made about him. No, he loved the stories. He loved the writing. He just loved that he was a part of it. It was so cool. It was such a loving, I don't want to call it an endorsement. It was just the kind of support that I would have hoped for. But when you get it for real, especially from him, it was pretty special. And I hope he doesn't mind that I'm sharing this with the world. You know, now I have to imagine you've gotten a phone call from literally every gay man who's ever met you and has your number saying, I see a window.

2:29:52Is it still open? I mean, not not exactly. No, it hasn't. It hasn't gone there because that was a pretty isolated, isolated thing. And again, that's not about shame or that's not about anything like that. That's just about, you know, trying to just be respectful of, you know, other people's privacies and stuff like that. But that is kind of funny. Yeah, I actually did have that thought. What's it going to be like now in the streets? Am I going to be getting the thing? You know what I'm saying? Yes, you're going to be getting the thing. If I do, awesome. Every gay man is going to say, so you're saying there's a chance.

2:30:26For the listening audience, Charlie reveals in the book that he, while on drugs, had a couple of interludes crossing over to the other side. is not declaring that he's gay or bi or anything else, but is just being honest about his life, intoxicated and high. And that's why I say some will see a window. That's all right. That's flattering. I mean, what the hell, right? It's one moment in a very long life. And I said something the other day that I guess I just wanted to have just a little bit more in common with Richard Pryor and Marlon Brando and Mick Jagger. Mick Jagger, that's who I was thinking of.

2:31:06That's pretty good company. That's some hall of famers right there, you know? But it does have to be a relief. You know, you write about how you paid people blackmail money to keep that secret. You came out a long time ago as HIV positive. You had to pay people to keep that secret. I mean, this is a lot to be laboring under. It's exhausting. It's exhausting. And to always, anytime the phone rings or you see an email from a lawyer or just, or a manager that always talks to that lawyer. And it's just, it just got to the point of this, you know, if this is prison, the only thing that's missing is the bars and the guards, you know, but yeah.

2:31:46And, you know, I was talking to Emilio and he said, are you cool that like all this stuff is, you know, is out there and like that. And I said, well, you know, I gotta be honest, man. And it feels a lot better, you know, out there than it did in here for so long. And so, and the other thing is, like, don't put something in a book and in a doc that come out, you know, a day apart. Unless you're going to be willing enough, courageous enough, open enough to discuss those things, you know. Very true. Because I did the GMA piece. I did the GMA piece with Strayham, which I think went pretty good, right?

2:32:33Yeah. And then one of the producers came up and said, wow, that was so courageous, and you didn't dodge it. And I said, well, yeah, I already wrote about it and spoke about it and put it in. And she said, oh, no, no, you'd be amazed how many people put stuff in a book. And then when it comes time to promote it or discuss it or whatever, they completely lose their minds. they just want to run and hide because I guess they never or they didn't see the connection between like okay it goes here and then you know and then does that it's still you know it's you're responsible for all of it and sometimes you get the annoying publicist who says don't ask about this meanwhile the principal is fine asking about it so often times it's a function of that having worked on the Today show, I know that the PR people can be absolutely awful and not really hearing this guy's message.

2:33:31Like you've just read it in the book and then you want to tell them, but it's here. How do I know this? I know this because he wrote it. He told me. I didn't pull it out of the ether. Some are good. Some are awful. That was actually one of the questions I had for you.

2:33:52Hey, everyone. It's Stavros Halkis, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast, Stavis World. Each week, we're joined by great guests like Josh Safdie, Eric Andre, Caleb Heron, and more. It's sort of an interview show, but really, we're just messing around, making each other laugh, and hopefully making you laugh while you're washing the dishes or grocery shopping or on a long drive. Plus, I take listener calls where we have honest conversations about dating life and everything in between. Imagine if your therapist was a vulgar degenerate whose office was in a Greek diner. No scripts, no polish, and absolutely no holding back.

2:34:26Listen to Stavi's World wherever you get your podcasts. It's Charles Barkley here with Wayfair. And let me tell you, game day is serious business at my house. If I'm grilling, chilling, and watching hoops, my outdoor setup better be ready to play. That's what Wayfair wins. From patio seating and umbrellas to grills and grill accessories. Wayfair's got it all and it shows up fast. I'm talking fast and easy delivery. So level up your grill game and your outdoor chill game and head to wayfair.com to get your outdoor space ready for the season. Wayfair, every style, every home. I was on Fox News in 2011 when you had the two and a half men cancellation and the winning and like the super torqued up Charlie with all the testosterone you write about.

2:35:12It was something like 4 ,000 which is, I don't know what number is supposed to be normal, but it's like two digits, not three and not four. I am on a drug. It's called Charlie Sheen. I'm different. I just have a different constitution. I have a different brain. I have a different heart. I have a different, you know, I get tiger blood, man. You don't worry that you're going to die when you take that many drugs. Dying's for fools. So you got fired from two and a half men, and you went on this, like, winning tour. And what I see in the documentary really jumped out at me, which was, this is my opinion, totally douchebag managers who exploited you.

2:35:43the troubled actor is taking his bizarre behavior out on the road for charlie sheen live my violent torpedo of truth i think what your name is synonymous and i don't mean this in a negative way is trouble and i and i think like torpedoes of truth is so brilliant because it's like it just sounds exciting who were like get out there go out on the stage make money they want to see you meanwhile you were in crisis so it's kind of irritating as a fan and a viewer to see that happen how do you see the role of those around you the professional people in in in in the middle of that whole yeah chaos uh yeah um i was it's kind of a double-edged sword because i was really hard to control i i had found some different level of of i don't know what there was just some other energy or some other possession or just some just thing that that I just needed to to stay attached to and I can't even really describe it it was I don't want to say it was out of body because then you're kind of like not owning it um I I knew what was going on I just didn't want it to stop and that's the part I can't really explain when I look back on that stuff it's like dude like okay maybe after that interview you issue a statement or you just like go just disappear somewhere for a month or just but to keep that thing going was just like that's the part um just the energy that required i don't have that kind of stamina anymore um but as far as the people that um that i guess you could say we're more complicit than not um it does take two to tango um and i say in the book that in this case it felt like um It felt more like 2000.

2:37:32But I also specifically write a line about in the years since, I've combed through the mental health manual, and I still can't find vile exploitation as a treatment protocol. So that is a quote from the book. So, yeah, I am going to point some of that stuff out. And then when I talk about Mark Berg, and Mark and I are great friends these days, but I do say Mark was the gatekeeper, and I wish he would have had a better key or a stronger lock or something that – or a lock that looked more like a comfy chair and a willing ear. you know it's like i i just think there could have been a moment in the middle of all that when coming someone could have just said all right we're gonna you know the party would put you know we're putting the putting the chairs on the table putting the lights on the party's over this guy's coming with us and just and and it it could have it it could have been could have been interrupted you know um but then suddenly there's this idea for a tour you know and i and i'm like what would that even what does that mean i'm not a did i did i start a band i can't remember forming is there some part of me like what are we because touring for me is all it could only be a musician or like a really popular comedian right and there was nothing funny about my act at that point right but um but yeah and then live nation gets involved and i go visit them and suddenly you know i'm holding a machete to a cheering crowd and they're booking dates you You know, which is why in the book, the only thing that I describe on that tour is that is that I don't want to give it away.

2:39:30But is that incident that takes place in the bathroom? You know, and I think just symbolically that that's that's really how I felt about about that, that that whole that whole shitstorm. I watched it. I just thought I watched it when it happened as a newswoman. and I was horrified at how you were being exploited. It was obvious you were in crisis. I felt the same about Kanye. I did not interview Kanye when he was going on his recent media tour because I could see the guy was in the middle of what appeared to be a bipolar episode. I did not pile on when that mayor up in Canada was going through it.

2:40:10Like, I just don't like it when news people, I think news people too have a responsibility not to have you on when you're in that state and pretend that you're okay or that this is an okay interview to be doing because this is a compromised person who needs help not to be exploited for clicks it's very fucking annoying as a news person to watch yeah no and that's that's that's great to hear um at least there's there's there's one of you that cares um no there's others i'm sure but um even the andrea a canning of it all right um she's terrific and i'm a fan and i you know she does great work she was with abc at the time and i put this responsibility on abc yeah but i was working out in a gym and i saw her on a on a monitor like up in the corner of the room with the sound off and i knew this interview was coming and i didn't know what the hell it was going to turn into but i was i was i was with somebody and i said hey what about her she looks pretty smart she looks like she knows what she's doing maybe she'll do the interview i mean literally it was like that no research nothing didn't know her backstory so she gets just yanked into this thing you know and and and then um i i yeah she she was like just front and center for that thing you know she was like putting on the seat belt to do that interview so exactly yeah i want to talk about sobriety because I think it's kind of interesting how it happened for you.

2:41:41But before I get to that, the hero in this story after you for rescuing yourself from your addictions, or at least from the active addiction, is your dad. And I just, like, to me, I have such empathy for him because, Charlie, I will tell you that I lost my sister at age 58 two years ago, a couple years ago. And thank you. And she was an addict, and she had a lifetime of similar problems. With her, it started as a prescription pill that she was given. And I saw the number of times your dad intervened and tried so hard. Sometimes he did the right thing. Sometimes it was questionable what he did.

2:42:25But what I saw was this extremely loving father who really wanted you to stop doing drugs, who desperately wanted you to get better and didn't totally know how to stop it. and then I saw he didn't participate in the documentary and neither did Emilio and I know you say it's because they watched the rough and they said you you got it all covered but I did wonder is that the full story or do you think there's like a lingering resentment at all there because I I certainly think in my family having an addict is like having a nuclear bomb go off in your nuclear family and there can be lingering resentment interesting yeah no I I I think that's all face value i think that's all face value with um because i was in the room with them watching both of their reactions to the rough cut and they they they couldn't have been more excited or passionate about it or celebrating it more and and dad was just like i'm i'm in this i'm already in this start to finish and emilia was like geez i i don't know what i could possibly contribute beyond what Charlie's already doing.

2:43:33And I genuinely think they didn't want to get in the way or try to tell my stories through their POV, even though that's part of how documentaries get to different parts of stories, and that's a device that they do lean into. um but no i i i because i think you know we started this about two years ago so i was i was by the at that point clean about almost six years and so they knew that that this that um that i wasn't you know i was committed to this thing um and and so you guys are good so like you feel legitimately like you've made amends with them and you're in a good oh absolutely yeah no amelia and I've been texting all day.

2:44:24He'll read something about the doc or the blog and he'll send it to me. And we just had a terrific piece come out. He interviewed me for Interview Magazine. And so they just print the transcript of our Zoom call. Even though we live a block from each other, we did it on Zoom, you know? And it dropped today. And some of it is hysterical. And anybody that's like, and I'm not saying, but anybody that might be questioning that we're on the outs or there's a thing or whatever. You read this piece and you can see two guys that are still a couple 12-year-olds talking about Jaws. And it's a wonderful piece.

2:45:08Part of what's so great about the movie, the documentary, a.k.a. Charlie Sheen, is the Super 8 film that you guys took of each other when you were kids. And the way you talk about L.A. is interesting, too. It makes it sound like a city in which you might actually raise a family back in the day in the 70s and late 60s. It used to be. Yeah, it used to be. It was more rural, you're describing. And that's why your dad and your mom chose to raise their family there. But you guys with the Super 8 videos, like pretend acting, like trying to be actors like your dad. And you were getting good at like the death scenes and the shooting up scenes.

2:45:44It was like pretty well done. Thank you. Thank you. we were front row watching him do it in his roles, on his sets sometimes all over the world there'd even be days, and this isn't in the doc where I'd be with Chris Pan and I'd be messing around with a cap gun or a starter pistol or something and dad would be watching and he'd be like doing a light workout just over in the other part of the yard or getting some sun or whatever and there was one day when he said hey guys guys hold on a second hold on a second he says all right if you guys are going to do it let me let me show you how it's going to look better and and i got this this little cap gun or starter pistol with you know blanks and he says all right charlie whenever you want i'm going to be folding i'm going to be folding this towel you shoot me and i'll show you how a guy would respond you know more realistically getting shot he's gonna he's gonna be pissed that i shared this but it's really a cool memory in a moment.

2:46:48It's not in the doc, it's not in the book, but it's right here. It's awesome. And I turned on him and I fired a shot and he took it and it wasn't like this super crazy five-minute dramatic death. He just buckled and then right on his back. And Chris and I were just like, oh my gosh, okay. So now we had a template to work from. Now we had like a real pro who'd been shot on film like a thousand times showing us like this is this is going to up your game a lot of parents will sit down with their kids and help them with their homework my dad was showing us like how to take a bullet how to get a fake one yeah it's quite helpful pretty wild here's a tough one for you who okay who's who is the better actor charlie sheen martin sheen or emilio estevez hmm

2:47:39Wow Gosh I think dad's the best dramatic actor Of the three of us I think I may Have a slight edge in the Comedy department Right And I think Emilio is more comfortable Than pop and myself With Romantic stuff I can see that yeah but I didn't answer your question did I we didn't go with better or best you know like who's going to get the lifetime achievement award hopefully Pop because you know what I'm saying I mean he's yeah but I think there's things that he can do that Emilio and I can't stuff Emilio can do that Pop and I can't and then finish that triad with the other two that can't. Yep. You know?

2:48:37The scene, of course, in Wall Street with you and your dad. I told you not to get into that racket in the first place. You could have been a doctor or a lawyer. You write about, you write as follows. There are a few moments with dad in that film that had flashes of promise from my end. He was his usual fabulous self and I was doing whatever I could to not vanish on screen next to him. I mean, how special was it that you had that feeling about him and working with him? And in part, that was portrayed in the relationship between Bud Fox and his dad in the movie itself. Right, right, right. No, it was it was it was it was an incredible experience.

2:49:21And I, you know, little pieces of regret throughout that, that I could have been more present, that I could have been just more dialed in, more professional. I think what's covered nicely in the book is that, you know, Platoon is still burning down the box office when we start Wall Street. And so there was like a lot of distraction. I wanted the party to keep going. And I think that I mentioned something about just wanting to be, you know, playfully drunk on a fancy boat in tropical waters with beautiful women, you know, not like working again, stuff like that. So there was a lot of distractions doing that.

2:50:10So some of the stuff with dad, and he was well aware of it. And so he he was, I think, just hoping for a more focused me. And that's why I talk about doing my best to not vanish on screen next to him. But talent wise, but also just, you know, where where my head was at, you know. And speaking of Wall Street. Is it time? It's time. OK, you know what? I think we should. let's play SOT 51. This is a kid. Calls me 59 days in a row. Wants to be a player. Ought to be a picture of you in the dictionary on a persistence game. I just want to let you know, Mr. Gecko, that I've read all about you at NYU Business, and I think you're an incredible genius.

2:51:01I've always dreamed of one thing, and that's to do business with a man like you. What firm are you with, pal? Jackson Steinem. They're going places. Good junk bond department. You do the financing on that Jansen investment? yeah yeah we're working on some other interesting stuff cosmetic company by any chance what are you 12th man the deal team last to know i can't tell you that mr gecko great stuff is it true you don't look back fondly on that film that you've only watched it twice i i liked that scene yeah what's not to like i mean there there's there's some there's just there's a lot going on there there's some charm there's some heart there's some you know um yeah you know what maybe it's time i i revisit this thing you should because i've seen it at least 20 times and it's seriously it's such a special film i love the character arc of bud fox and i think it totally captures what happens to young guys on wall street to this day my husband actually wrote a book called ghosts of manhattan and it's all about this exact issue and i thought you just completely portrayed it you nailed it and the relationship that you have with your dad in the in the film is just the chef's kiss on top but can we both agree thank you that daryl hannah was miscast she was and and she knew it and she knew it so really i mean she could feel it she could feel it um and i think uh maybe some of the way that that um she wasn't as embraced as she could have been by oliver and in just in certain moments you know and i and i do touch on some of that in the book um oliver's the only guy in the book that i um i don't want to say i go after him but i but i do talk about things because i was describing these other experiences and these other films and i'm like okay the you know all this stuff can't just be like this lovey-dovey flowery actor director you know relationship stuff there's you know when it when it when it got a little grumbling a little tense um i thought that was that was worth sharing and you know i i give it's not about you know taking him to task it's just about like pointing out things about him that he's freaking pointed out um about other people for years you know he's never been shy talking about certain actors and certain things and experiences and so and also his slings and arrows yes he can and he and i haven't worked together since wall street i mean that shitty a little cameo in the ill-advised sequel to Wall Street, right?

2:53:40Yeah. But that doesn't count. So it's not like Oliver's been banging down my door since 1987, right? So maybe this approach gets his attention. Maybe this will get him to reach out. This he'll respect. Alright, now your people are telling us we've got to wrap, so I want to close with this. I thought we were just getting warm. The PR people are annoying, I'm telling you. Just you'll give me your number later and I'll go directly to you next time. They'll love that. Awesome. This is where I want to end it. I hope this isn't too dark for you, but you pulled yourself with some friendships and support out of decades of addiction.

2:54:20And this time it seems to really be sticking. You're eight years sober, which is amazing. Thank you. Thank you. And here's what I want to ask you. So I know you knew Matthew Perry. You write in the book, we were both veterans of the unspeakable. Really well said. Thank you. We did a long tribute to Matthew Perry, who was so talented after he died. And it was obvious that his addiction had not been totally licked. And if you don't ultimately lick it and stay off of the drugs and stay clean, it ends the same for virtually everyone. So please don't do that to us. please know how important you are in our culture and as a figure who kids look up to and people admire and want to continue applauding and cheering for for decades to come.

2:55:12I really hope you know we're all rooting for you and just want nothing but good things for you. That's amazing. There's such love and compassion in that, and that is a request that I wholeheartedly have every intention of honoring. Because it's like you were saying, you know, drugs are undefeated. They're undefeated. It's like 20 million to zero.

2:55:48Even writing the book, watching the doc, I'm the guy that lived it and survived it. And I still don't completely know how. I think the why part will be revealed over time. And that's fine. That's not up to me. But yeah, to get through that, you know, several times and then continue to thumb your nose at the universe, I think at that point you're asking for it, you know. And it's interesting because you do talk about that Matthew, you know, was still struggling a little bit when he had to go on the tour and promote the book and do all that stuff. But I could see it, and I know a lot of other people could too, and I could also hear it when I listened to the book.

2:56:38I could hear just because for a guy that just had such precision with his diction and his delivery and his timing and just everything, and it was just left of center, and you just felt like – and I read his book. I read it in a day because I just got so deep into it, and nothing else mattered, and I wasn't stopping until I finished. And I so wanted to reach out to him, and I didn't. And he died a month later. And it was just, you know, so, yeah, I don't want to do that to my kids. I don't want to do that to the rest of my family. And, yeah, if you get a second, third, fourth, fifth chance, you know, wrap your arms around it.

2:57:29and just consider it a fricking lotto win every day. Well, maybe there's a better chance this time because I'll tell you, I'm a little younger than you are, but not by that much. And I've referred to this as my fuck it 50s. So you really don't care what people think of you. You really change in your 50s for the better. It's one delightful thing about getting older. And I think more so when you're in your 60s. So I feel like you've got all that ahead of you. You've got all this goodness here. You hopefully will meet somebody and fall in love, which is not a false god. You've already got enough money, so you don't have to chase the dollar, which is another false god.

2:58:10You've already proven that you can do all this shit to your body and still stay standing, which check. Okay, we've got that. Maybe we won't continue the parties with Nick Cage. That could be a thing of the past. That's fine. I think that might be a healthy choice. I leave it up to you. but whatever you choose, I really hope it fulfills you like from, from the inside and that you have like a, maybe not a fucking fifties, but like a spectacular sixties and beyond because we all are rooting for you. Oh, thank you. Thank you. That is, that is, that just, that's, that's the nicest thing ever. That is, that is so sweet.

2:58:44And, and, and coming from you that, that, that means the world. Thank you. All right. Well, I will, I will talk to you on the next episode of the Megan Kelly show where I'll be thinking of you as I say the word SOT40. That's amazing. This has been a pleasure. All the best, Charlie. Or SOT60. That's right. SOT60 in honor of Charlie Sheen. All the best. Right on. See you soon. Thank you so much. Thanks for listening to The Megan Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

2:59:22Hi, besties. It's Tinks. If you need a little inspo, a little tough love, or just someone to tell you that everything is going to be OK, come hang out with me on my podcast. It's me, Tinks. We talk dating, confidence, friendships, healing, leveling up and all the things we're working on together. I share my frameworks, your questions and yes, plenty of chaotic stories. New episodes drop every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. So whether you're on your hot girl walk, commuting or hiding from your ex on Instagram, I've got you. Listen to It's Me Tinks wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Cindy Lauper with fellow Cosentix advocate, Chef Michelle Bernstein.

2:59:56We'll share our experiences with plaque psoriasis, with psoriatic arthritis, and Dr. Panico will talk about the possible connection. Cosentix Secukinumab is prescribed for adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis 300 mg dose and adults with active psoriatic arthritis 150 mg dose. Don't use if you're allergic to Cosentix. Before starting, get checked for tuberculosis. An increased risk of infections and lowered ability to fight them may occur, like tuberculosis or other serious bacterial, fungal, or viral infections. Some are fatal. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms like fevers, sweats, chills, muscle aches, or cough.

3:00:32Had a vaccine or plan to. Or if inflammatory bowel disease symptoms develop or worsen. Serious allergic reactions and severe eczema-like skin reactions may occur. Learn more at 1-844-COSENTICS or cosentics.com slash Cindy. you