In short
The episode reconstructs the D.C. sniper case communications and FBI profiling, focusing on the Ponderosa Steakhouse payphone “Call Me God” messages, the tarot “death card” clue, and how profilers Jim Clemente and James Fitzgerald interpret language, punctuation, and target patterns to narrow suspects.
Guests/backgrounds
Retired FBI profilers Jim Clemente and James Fitzgerald (Fitz is also a forensic linguist). Tim Clemente (Jim’s brother) is an FBI agent who hears the Ponderosa phone ring. The episode also references ATF negotiator Peter Mangan and Jamaican-born ATF agent Mark Peterkin.
Key claims
The “Call Me God” notes were designed to force police to respond publicly; the writers’ dialect features (e.g., missing plural/possessive “s”) suggest a Black male writer; punctuation and “Mr. Police” imply youth and possible Caribbean/Jamaican connection; the killings may have been partly to mask a personal motive.
Notable examples
Iron Brown shot at Benjamin Tasker Middle School; the tarot card found with “Call Me God… For You, Mr. Police… do not release to the press”; the Ponderosa phone call recording from Lee Malvo; Conrad “CJ” Johnson (born in Jamaica) killed on his bus route; the “duck in a noose” phrase discussion.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOThe Ponderosa Shooting Begins
0:00 to 0:15
Explore the events leading to a mysterious phone call at a crime scene.
“And I'm other GLP ones, kind of like him.”
The Ponderosa Shooting Begins
0:27 to 1:00
Explore the events leading to a mysterious phone call at a crime scene.
“The deadlines, the pressure, the tension.”
The Ponderosa Shooting Begins
2:00 to 2:38
Explore the events leading to a mysterious phone call at a crime scene.
“Folded inside it is a letter written on pink paper with stars stuck to it.”
Introduction to the Snipers
2:38 to 3:40
Meet the retired FBI profilers involved in the sniper case analysis.
“A lot of skincare makes big promises, but often under delivers.”
The Early Shootings and Tarot Card Clue
3:40 to 5:30
Learn about the initial shootings and the chilling tarot card discovery.
“For a limited time, try One Skin with 15 % off using the code Megan at oneskin.co slash Megan.”
Media Miscommunication and Public Response
5:30 to 7:50
Discuss the media's mishaps in reporting crucial information to the public.
“The first and only real clues to the shooter's identity and his first known effort to communicate.”
The Hoppers' Traumatic Experience
7:50 to 9:30
Follow the harrowing tale of Jeff and Stephanie Hopper during the sniper attacks.
“Just before 8 p.m., they walk out across the parking lot toward their white Cadillac holding hands.”
Investigation Insights from the Sniper Case
9:30 to 11:10
Delve into the analysis and investigation techniques used in profiling the snipers.
“I'm 37, he tells them, and I hope to reach 38.”
Understanding the Shooter's Profile
11:10 to 14:01
Examine the psychological and linguistic elements of the shooter's communication.
“comes out of those two documents and out of a room at Quantico where two profilers are arguing about them.”
Profiling the Sniper: Dichotomy of Ages
14:01 to 16:36
Explore the contrasting profiles of the sniper based on evidence and notes.
“But finally, with Ted Kaczynski, we could line up these unusual punctuation marks and other verb and noun phrases.”
Show all 21 chapters
The Influence of Youth in Communications
16:37 to 18:14
Discusses evidence suggesting youthful influences in the sniper's communications.
“history, we have a sniper team, one old and one younger.”
The Influence of Youth in Communications
18:15 to 19:09
Discusses evidence suggesting youthful influences in the sniper's communications.
“homes have toxic chemicals in their tap water?”
The Bag on the Tree: A Critical Discovery
19:57 to 24:51
Examines the discovery of a threatening note and its implications.
“Then came Ashland and the bag on the tree.”
Dialects and Profiling: Clues from Language
24:52 to 27:09
Analyzes the language of the sniper's note for cultural and racial insights.
“Fitz noticed a conspicuous missing letter.”
Snipers and the God Complex
27:10 to 28:00
Explores the psychological aspects of the snipers and their interactions with law enforcement.
“Now they're asking the police to take their call at the Ponderosa so they can ensure the message gets through.”
Understanding the Sniper's Psychology
28:00 to 29:14
Learn about the psychological complexities and motives behind the sniper attacks.
“The profilers had warned Chief Moose from the beginning about being careful on camera.”
Murder as a Means to an End
29:14 to 31:15
Explore the twisted rationale behind the sniper's choice of victims.
“Clemente has a phrase for how a killer is made.”
The Ponderosa Call
31:15 to 33:19
Discover the chilling details surrounding the sniper's cryptic call to the police.
“The country was still looking for a white van.”
Consequences and Expectations
33:19 to 38:39
Examine the fallout from the sniper's threats and the police response.
“I left a note at the back of the Ponderosa.”
A Gripping Conclusion
38:39 to 40:28
Uncover the ongoing hunt for the sniper and the unresolved mysteries.
“By the night of October 22nd, the two men in the FBI profiler room believe the person writing these notes may be young, may be black, may have some tie to the Caribbean, and may not be alone.”
A Gripping Conclusion
40:35 to 40:52
Uncover the ongoing hunt for the sniper and the unresolved mysteries.
“Then I added Magnesium Breakthrough by Bioptimizers to my nightly routine.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Hello, I'm Ozempic. And I'm other GLP ones, kind of like him. Are you shaking a maraca? No, I'm shaking the pill version of Ozempic, which no one should ever do except in ads like this. A nice disclaimer. Hey, thanks. Ask your doctor about which FDA-approved uses of the Ozempic pen or pill may be right for you. Call 1-833-OZEMPIC or visit Ozempic.com to view the medication guide and learn more about Ozempic semaglutide tablets, 9mg, and Ozempic semaglutide injection, 2mg. There's a pill version of Ozempic. The deadlines, the pressure, the tension. You may just brush it off as stress, but is your hair?
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1:17The lot is still taped off as a crime scene. Inside, in the hall by the front doors, there is a public telephone. At exactly 6 a.m., it rings. One of the men standing outside is an FBI agent. He hears the phone ringing inside the locked building and says, somebody should get in there and answer it. No one does. It is not his crime scene. His hands are tied. The phone continues ringing, then stops. Six hours earlier, around midnight, in the woods behind that restaurant, investigators find a plastic sandwich bag tacked to a tree with two white thumbtacks. It looks like a Halloween bag, the kind a child takes trick-or-treating.
2:04Folded inside it is a letter written on pink paper with stars stuck to it. Investigators bag it unopened. It goes to a lab in the morning and is finally read around noon. The letter is handwritten and there are detailed instructions. It's from the snipers who have been terrorizing Washington, D.C. for nearly three weeks. In it, they announced that they will call the public telephone at the Ponderosa at six o 'clock Sunday morning, and police should be standing there to take it. I'm Megan Kelly, and this is MK Confidential.
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3:32Born from over 10 years of longevity research, One Skin is helping you unlock your healthiest skin now and as you age. For a limited time, try One Skin with 15 % off using the code Megan at oneskin.co slash Megan. oneskin.co slash Megan. That's 15 % off. oneskin.co with code Megan. After you purchase, support our show and tell them we sent you and then enjoy this beautiful product. Jim Clemente and James Fitzgerald were in the room where the true profile of these killers begins to take shape. Both are retired FBI profilers. Fitz is also a forensic linguist. The agent who heard the phone ring from the parking lot is Tim Clemente, Jim's brother.
4:21By the middle of October 2002, the men doing the shooting have started to message the police. It starts 13 days before that phone rings with a card in the woods. October 7th, a 13-year-old boy named Iron Brown is dropped off at Benjamin Tasker Middle School in Bowie, Maryland, and is shot as he walks toward the door. He lives. Police follow the trajectory back into the tree line, where a U.S. Marshals Service dog stops at a fallen branch and sits. The ground there is flattened the way ground looks when someone has been lying on it. Cadets rake the area and turn up a spent 223 casing. Near it, an ATF agent finds a tarot card lying face up in the brush.
5:08It is the death card. On the front is a skeleton in armor on a white horse carrying a black flag. Across the top, handwritten in blue ink, Call Me God. On the back, another handwritten message, For You, Mr. Police. And code, Call Me God. Do not release to the press. That's the entire message. The first and only real clues to the shooter's identity and his first known effort to communicate. 13 words, maybe 14. No one wants word of that card to leave this room. The lead homicide detective, Joseph Bergstrom, calls it an ace in the hole and warns a briefing of two dozen task force members that someone there might leak it.
5:55That night on the 11 o 'clock news, WUSA in Washington reports that a tarot card has been found at the school. The Washington Post has it too. Both outlets get the wording wrong. It was a card from a fortune telling deck that's known as the death card with a note written on it. Dear Policeman, I am God. It's the latest chilling development in this chilling case and massive investigation. Dear Policeman, I am God, which is not what the card said. And neither outlet initially reports the line that mattered most to the man who wrote it. Quote, do not release to the press. The next morning, Montgomery County Police Chief Charles Moose walks out to the cameras.
6:39I have not received any message that the citizens of Montgomery County want Channel 9 or the Washington Post or any other media outlet to solve this case. If they do, then let me know. We will go and do other police work and we will turn this case over to the media. But to date, the people in my community have asked the police department to work the case. So I beg of the media, let us do our job. Moose says later that much of the anger was an act. He assumed the men who left the card were watching and he wanted them to see the leak had not come from him. Twelve days later, another communication.
7:18It arrives the same way. Someone has to be shot first. Saturday, October 19th. Jeff and Stephanie Hopper have been driving for nine days. He is 37, a computer consultant. They are driving from Melbourne, Florida, where they live, to Pennsylvania to see her sister. They've heard about the shooter along I-95 and are careful not to buy gas anywhere near Washington, so they stop in Ashland instead, 100 miles south of D.C. The hoppers have dinner at the Ponderosa, steak and salad. Just before 8 p.m., they walk out across the parking lot toward their white Cadillac holding hands. They both hear a loud noise.
8:01Stephanie thinks a car has backfired. Jeff puts his hand on his stomach, goes down slowly and says, I think I've been shot. She kneels over him. He says, I love you. She says, I love you. They say the Lord's Prayer together. Then she tries to dial 911 and cannot get her phone keypad unlocked, so she starts shouting at people in the lot to call. Ashland Patrolman Tim Meacham is there in two minutes. He stops his cruiser at the end of the sidewalk so the car is between the hoppers and the woods. Jeff was laying in the parking lot and Stephanie was sitting on the sidewalk and she was holding pressure on his stomach.
8:42I told her that I need to verify the injury so she lifted up the towel that she was holding on it and I saw a pole about the size of a nickel in the top of the victim's stomach. Meacham says she was the calmest person he has ever seen at a scene like this. He tells her the thing to do with a bleed is to hold pressure that it isn't rocket science. She starts laughing. So does her husband. She started to chuckle. The victim started to laugh. And at this point, I'm like, OK, can you guys let me in on the joke? Well, she was a rocket scientist for NASA. So me telling her that it wasn't rocket science, she kind of knew that already.
9:22The round has gone in under his sternum and come apart inside him. When the ambulance crew gets to him, they keep asking him how old he is. I'm 37, he tells them, and I hope to reach 38. He will. Behind the restaurant, there is a wooded lot and it is completely dark. The plan is to wait for daylight. An ATF agent named Ray Neely argues against it. He has a yellow lab named Garrett, who finds gunpowder, and says the dog does not need to wait for daylight. The smell will never be stronger than it is right now. That's when I saw the rub mark. There was a small tree about maybe two inches in diameter with a small vine.
10:03And when I looked up that tree, it looked like someone had taken some type of hard object and leaned it up against that tree. And that created a rub mark. You wouldn't have that occurring in nature. You needed something hard pressing against it. And it was also in Lana's sight too, where the person was actually hit as he exited the Ponderosa. And so that rubbed mark was someone probably using that tree as a right for rest. 20 feet behind that tree, the dog sits. Sure enough, the bullet casing is lying on top of the leaves, clean. Then a Hanover County sergeant named James Sizemore sees something on a tree trunk, a Ziploc bag with a Halloween pattern on it, pinned up with two white thumbtacks.
10:48Folded inside is pink-lined paper with stars stuck to it, a note, not read, but sent in for processing. Six hours later, the phone rings in the locked vestibule, and no one answers it. Two pieces of paper delivered two weeks apart. Over the next four days, almost everything the task force learns about these men comes out of those two documents and out of a room at Quantico where two profilers are arguing about them. James Fitzgerald has been waiting for a letter before there was one. We were trying to put the profile together for the week or so before, and I was telling people we're probably going to get a notification, a letter, a document somewhere, and sure enough, there is the tarot card.
11:34I actually wound up writing a four-and-a-half-page report along with two other profilers in the unit just summarizing what we saw in that card alone. Four and a half pages out of 13 words.
12:14And I was a police officer prior to the FBI, and nobody ever called me that. Then the next line is, call me God in quotation marks. And what the heck did they mean by that? I did some more research. There was a movie called Navy SEALs, starring Charlie Sheen back in the 80s. And the sniper on that team, his nickname was God, because he had the power of life and death. But I focused on the word press as opposed to media. And I summed up the end of it. It seems like using Mr. Police, someone deferential, hip hop related, maybe younger, using press, the older word, which is now media was more common.
12:52Perhaps the person is older. So the end was we have sort of a mix of personalities here. Fitz did not say two people. Not yet. He wrote that the card might have been made across two days in two moods. He also had to establish an approximate age for the writer. An age can be difficult to tell in a forensic, I'm asked to do that all the time in a forensic linguistic analysis. Give us the age of an individual and, you know, some older people write in a very sophomoric sense. Some younger people can write in a very advanced, you know, seemingly educated or well-read sense. I think maybe 13 words, 14 words on that whole tarot card.
13:32And the card itself told us a lot, even about the immaturity. Then he looked at punctuation. Why did he use quotation marks over call me God, then separate do not release to the press? If anything, they could have been underlined or exclamation mark. It was this person's way of emphasizing something important to them. And again, what I did in the Unabom case, I compared the Unabom writings to the eventual writings of Ted Kaczynski, many people in between. But finally, with Ted Kaczynski, we could line up these unusual punctuation marks and other verb and noun phrases. And that's what I was hoping to do in this case.
14:10While Fitz worked on the language, Jim Clemente worked on the scenes. The choice of targets, the distances of the shots, the timing. When the first six one-shots, one-kill happened, we immediately felt that this is somebody who is a little older. They're not in their 20s. They're probably, they're most likely police or military trained because these are very efficient kills. And I know that sounds cold, but this is the way we analyze them. This is somebody who's sticking and running, sticking and running, sticking and running, and being incredibly efficient all through that day. In other words, they didn't decompensate at all.
14:57They didn't have their nerves get up, and it didn't interfere with the later killings in that same day. Clemente read the sniper as a disciplined adult, a man who was trained to shoot and has killed before. Fitz saw a child. I remember very clearly Fitz was sitting next to me in the profiling room at our roundtable, where he said, look, there's such a dichotomy here between the actions, because we're all saying that we profile the shootings, and this is somebody who has planned and executed these shootings flawlessly. Yet Fitz is saying, I'm seeing some younger kind of influences in these notes.
15:42And I also remember, Fitz, you saying that Mr. Police is a line from some Jamaican reggae songs. And so that was the first time you mentioned that this person could have connections to Jamaica. Jamaica, off a phrase on the back of a tarot card. And as we were arguing this out, everybody said, well, certainly this guy is in his late 30s or early 40s because he must be police and military trained. But Fitz was saying, well, I don't know, based on these writings, he's either, well, if he's an adult, he's just barely an adult. But Fitz said, I think he's more like 15, 16 years old. And everybody said that's impossible.
16:31There was one answer, though, that made both takes true. So I jumped in to back Fitz up and say, well, then either for the first time we have a guy who is perfectly calm, cool and collected while he is planning and executing the shootings, but decompensates and communicates like a child. Or for the first time in U.S. history, we have a sniper team, one old and one younger. But the profilers took issue with the idea of a team. In their experience, criminal snipers did not share control.
17:30well, if one of them's older and actually forcing his will on the younger one, then he is feeling fine because he's controlling the younger one and the younger one doesn't really have a say in it. And they're saying, ah, that doesn't make much sense. And I said, well, he could control him completely by sexually victimizing him. And lo and behold, I think it was 11 years later that that Malvo came out while he was in prison and said that Mohammed had been sexually victimizing him from almost from day one. That was a guess in a room in 2002 about two men no one had yet identified. Mohammed was never charged with abusing Malvo, and he never answered that allegation.
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20:06What Tim Clemente noticed first was the bag itself. my brother tim was the one that found the note the the one at the uh steakhouse in ashland and he immediately they hadn't opened it up but it was actually tacked to a tree in a baggie that was a halloween baggie like a kid's halloween trick-or-treat baggie and so right there just from the outside of that and then seeing through the baggie that there were little gold stars on it It was like, what kind of a 45-year-old is going to use this to communicate to law enforcement? When we then discussed it with Fitz, he gave us a number of other indicators of youthfulness in this communications.
20:51And that, you know, Mr. Police was kind of looking up to cops rather than, you know, scornfully looking down at them. You could read part of it through the plastic. Because it was a baggie that this note was contained in, you could see the front and the back of the note. And my brother saw the lines, your kids are not safe anywhere. Tim Clemente wanted to open it on the spot, preserve the evidence, but read it that night because he saw a clear threat to children in it. He was told no, it was not an FBI case yet. And the man who could make that call was asleep. somebody in the local department said no we're gonna we're gonna wait till the my boss wakes up and then uh we'll let him make that decision my brother really kind of tried a whole bunch of things to try to get them to open it immediately but they did not do it and the phone he was there the phone was inside the vestibule of the restaurant which was which was still locked but he heard the phone ring at 6 a.m and he said somebody should definitely get in there and answer it and again it was not our crime scene.
22:02They never actually opened up the letter until like noon Sunday when they finally got it to the lab. We missed a classic chance to actually have someone talk to talk to it, talk to the people that morning and and and and it turns out there was an incoming call to that pay phone at 6 a.m that no one ever picked up and I've as a linguist I I just always wonder what it would be like to have been on that call and we could have really narrowed down even where they came from. Fitz knows what the alternative looks like because he's watched the Bureau do it once before. On the kidnapping of Exxon executive Sidney Riso.
22:40Riso did not survive, but the way they caught the people who took him is the point. Agents in the Newark division, there was about 100 of them all in cars. They went to every pay phone in like North Jersey and they sat on it. And sure enough, because they knew a call was coming in to some tip line somewhere. And sure enough, someone sees a guy get out of a car, a woman's in the car, makes the call and the case gets put together from there. They stop the car and they were they were the kidnappers. So that exactly could have been done overnight. night. They would have had six to eight hours to put agents around every phone booth.
23:21It wouldn't have been easy, and they could have missed it. We're not denying that. They could have made the arrest potentially right then and there and definitely saved a few more lives. When the letter is finally in hand, it runs four pages. It opens with the same three lines as the tarot card. Page two begins, we have tried to contact you to start negotiation. What follows is a numbered list of the calls they say they made and who took each one. An officer named Derek, a female officer at Rockville, the task force hotline, a priest, even CNN. Every one of them by the writer's account told them to call a different number or hung up.
24:03These people took the calls for a hoax or a joke, according to the letter. so your failure to respond has cost you five lives, it accuses. Then the demand, $10 million into a Bank of America account. The note promises to call police at 6 a.m. on Sunday at the Ponderosa buffet and includes the phone number they plan to call. The letter closes with an alternative. If catching them matters more than stopping the killing, then, quote, prepare you body bags. And underneath that, a postscript. Your children are not safe anywhere at any time. And a promise, which Fitz has never forgotten. If we give you our word, then that is what takes place.
24:50Word is bond. Four pages was enough. Fitz noticed a conspicuous missing letter. So at the time of the D.C. sniper case, I'm in my Georgetown master's program in linguistics, and I happened to be taking a course in sociolinguistics and we were studying U.S. dialects. And I was learning about, you know, Boston dialects, New York, Philadelphia, which is mine, other parts of the country. And I realized it's not all geographical, it's cultural. And here I noticed on this letter, and one of the hallmarks, if you will, one of the features of Black vernacular English, there's a name for it, is a lot of Black people spoken in writing drop the S's on either possessive words or plural words.
25:35And here in this note, when the first two pages alone, this letter, I think there were four pages total, the person writes the word negotiation, should have been plural, demand should have been plural with an S, and$10 million, which of course should have been plural. And if it happened just once, okay, it's a typo. I mean, it was handwritten, but you know, a mistake. Second time, maybe third time I said, we have dialect features here of a black person, most likely male. And I was the first one. And I know I talked to Jim Clemente about this. And I was the first one to say, Jim, I think we got a black guy.
26:13Let's go up to the task force and tell them. That reading changed the profile. We were very careful in how we worded the profile. That was to go out to the public. And we very purposefully said, historically speaking, snipers are white males acting on their own. However, and here's the caveat, we don't know if this person exactly fits that historical matching in this particular case. And years later, I'd be hearing, oh, the FBI had it wrong. They said it was a white guy in the beginning. We technically didn't, but you have to be careful when you put these profiles together. We don't want investigators or the public ruling out someone if they think they have good evidence otherwise, and they don't make the phone call.
26:59So the Bureau hedged in writing on purpose, and the country heard white man, white van, and stopped listening. The men doing the shooting had been trying to get somebody on the phone for two weeks. Now they're asking the police to take their call at the Ponderosa so they can ensure the message gets through. Before any of the notes one of the snipers called a priest. There was an even more detailed conversation where Mohammed apparently earlier had made a phone call to a priest. It was basically claiming the responsibility for the shootings outside of D.C., but also claiming responsibility for shooting down south.
27:44Malvo and Mohammed apparently chose the priest specifically because he would not record their conversation, but they hoped he would go to the police. He did not. Investigators found him while chasing down the note left behind the Ponderosa. For the moment, the detail about the shooting down south goes nowhere. The profilers had warned Chief Moose from the beginning about being careful on camera. We told Chief Moose immediately that snipers have a God complex. Do not challenge them because you will see them try to prove it. But he said at the end, the streets are safe. Your schools are safe. So the next day, they shot a child on his way into school.
28:27That child was Iron Brown. But by the end of the month, the men who shot him were writing the chief's lines and Fitz could watch it happen. Chief Moose was supposed to say something like, we have the snipers in a noose with an unusual N-U-E-S-E, I believe, spelling of the word noose. So they were definitely playing games at the end. I'm saying they now, we were sure that there was more than one person. And now they're trying to have the chief of police, you know, at their beck and call and making these particular statements. And underneath all of it, from the very first day, Fitz had a suspicion about what the shootings were actually for.
Read the full transcript
29:09I was giving a tour of the FBI, kind of just a real quick aside that day to some journalists and their partners and we walk out and cnn when they used to do news back then they were covering the the story as we're walking out the lobby and the journalist said you know fitz what's going on here what's happening i said i don't know this is new to me too but i've learned sometimes that when multiple people are killed it's designed to hide the one target that is really the person who the shooter or the murderer wants the dead and it turns out and Jim and I can discuss that later, that's exactly what the case was here.
29:42Clemente has a phrase for how a killer is made. He says genetics loads the gun, personality aims it, and experience pulls the trigger. In Muhammad's case, the experience he points to is a custody fight. I would say his wife getting custody of the kids and keeping them away from him. I mean, he tried to hunt them down. He tried to hunt her down. In the end, his actual motive in this case was to shoot a number of other people, make it look like there's some wild, crazed killer out there, and then shoot her as part of this, and then maybe shoot some more people and then disappear. But as a result, the children's mother would be dead, and he felt he would get custody.
30:29That was his ultimate goal, to win custody from her by killing her. except Mildred will not be killed. Her best friend, Issa's niece, is murdered. But Mohamed never takes a shot at Mildred or her house on Quiet Brook Lane. Still, Mohamed has a plan, which is why he wanted Malvo. He literally murdered people out of convenience. He murdered other people to try to cover his crime of intending to murder his wife. I'm going to make a master plan. I'm going to grab a kid out of a shelter and groom him and force him and victimize him into a position where he's going to help me. Because you always need a getaway driver if you're going to be shooting from the back of a car.
31:21The country was still looking for a white van. And the woman these two profilers believe the sniper ultimately meant to kill is living on the other side of Washington from the shootings in Clinton, Maryland. calling the police about a dark Chevrolet that kept parking within sight of her house. On the morning of October 11th, a woman getting a ride to work notices a dark car parked at the end of her cul-de-sac. Two men in it. As they drive past, the driver stares at the woman. His passenger raises a newspaper over his face. She calls 911 from her co-worker's phone and reports a late model Caprice or Impala, New Jersey plates, two men inside.
32:01The officer promises to send someone. Days later, she learns that several of her neighbors have seen the same car, parked in different spots, always facing her house. Her name is Mildred Muhammad. Hers is not the only report that went nowhere. A week earlier, a woman is shot outside a Michaels Craft store in Spotsylvania County, Virginia. Jim Clemente and his brother Tim are not assigned to the shooting, but they drive out to it from home to help. We get there, and I go to the sheriff, and I said, you know, were there any witnesses? And he said, no, nobody saw anything. And I said, look, this is by the mall.
32:42There's 3 ,000 cars here in the parking lot. Somebody saw something. He said, well, one 19-year-old kid who was like a drug addict said he saw a black guy in a dark sedan peeling out, And he said, that's where the shot came from. And I said, great, did you put that out on APB? He said, no, I put out the APB on the white van. Sunday morning, October 20th, three hours and 40 minutes after a Ponderosa phone rang and rang in Ashland, Virginia, with no one picking up. At 20 minutes to 10, a caller dials the FBI hotline from a convenience store in Richmond. Don't talk, he says, just listen. Call me God.
33:22I left a note at the back of the Ponderosa. Be there for a call in 10 minutes. The people taking hotline calls have no idea about a Ponderosa letter or what was in it. 10 minutes comes and goes with no contact. That night, Chief Moose, who has now read the sniper's letter, goes on television and does something no police chief wants to do. He answers. To the person who left us a message at the Ponderosa last night, you gave us a telephone number. We do want to talk to you. Call us at the number you provided. At 7.57 a.m., the phone rings. It's Lee Malvo. Is this the Ponderosa? Who is this? Don't say anything.
34:07Just listen. Malvo holds up a tape recorder to the receiver. The actual recording is garbled and distorted, but investigators eventually transcribed it.
34:41two, be sure to remember he will not deviate. P.S. Your children are not safe. Malvo hangs up. 38 seconds. Within the hour, a tactical team takes down a white van at an Exxon station in Richmond, pulling two men onto the pavement in front of the cameras. One of the men inside had been using the payphone when Malvo's call came in. The men on the pavement are Mexican nationals who have nothing to do with any of it. The call to the Ponderosa had come from a second payphone on the other side of that same gas station. Malvo and Mohammed escape. Malvo later to investigators, I saw the Mexicans get stopped.
35:22I watched it, but I wasn't in the car. The task force played the 38 seconds over and over and over again. One agent thought the voice sounded Hispanic. Another guest Asian. one said it sounds like a kid. An ATF negotiator named Peter Mangan thought it sounded Caribbean, maybe Jamaican, he said, which is where Fitz had landed two weeks earlier off of four words on a tarot card. Mangan ran the phrase duck in a noose past a Jamaican-born ATF agent named Mark Peterkin, who had never heard the phrase in his life. Peterkin looked at him. There are no ducks in Jamaica. Tuesday, October 22nd, 5.55 in the morning, still dark, Aspen Hill, Maryland.
36:13Conrad Johnson is 35 and has driven a bus for 10 years. Everyone calls him CJ. Six foot two, 250 pounds, shaved head, goatee, two diamond earrings. He has a trainee riding with him that morning. They had breakfast on the bus. The doors are open. Across the lot, there's a basketball court and past that, Woods. Johnson kicks some trash out of the front door, comes back up the steps, and sets his coffee down on the change box. He is standing in the doorway of his own bus with the lights on behind him. At 5.55 a.m., a shot from the treeline.
37:07CJ has flown to Suburban Hospital in Bethesda. He is awake, sitting up, but the round has destroyed most of his liver. He dies on the operating table at 926 that morning. That afternoon, 50 feet into the woods, a search line finds a Ziploc bag on a broken branch. Inside it, a second Ziploc bag. Inside that, a note with red stars on it. For you, Mr. Police, call me God, do not release to the press. You did not respond to the message. You departed from what we told you to say, and you departed from the time. Your incompetence has cost you another life. Moose had not done what the snipers requested, pulled a press conference saying he had caught the sniper like a duck in a noose.
37:57Now the snipers lay CJ's death at his feet. Late that afternoon, Moose walks out and reads the threat from the original Ponderosa letter out loud, word for word, because the alternative is pretending he has not seen it. We recognize the concerns of the community and therefore are going to provide the exact language in the message that pertains to the threat. Your children are not safe anywhere at any time. Back inside headquarters, Moose tells one of his captains that was the hardest thing he's ever done. We're saying we can't do our job, he says. We're supposed to keep people safe. And we can't.
38:41By the night of October 22nd, the two men in the FBI profiler room believe the person writing these notes may be young, may be black, may have some tie to the Caribbean, and may not be alone. They're getting closer. But still, they don't have a name. There is something about the bus driver, Conrad Johnson, that does not come out for years. CJ was born in Jamaica. His mother came to the U.S. and left him behind with an aunt when he was just two years old. He joined his mom in America when he was about 10. His mother's name is Sonia Wills. She says Conrad was the kind of boy who brought other boys home, the ones he thought needed somewhere to be.
39:22He was a caretaker. In the midst of the shootings, there was a woman on his route who was frightened to get on the bus. He used to stop the bus, get off, walk her out from behind a tree, and put her on board. Whenever he got to that spot, he would get off the bus and go get her on behind a tree and escort her to the bus, telling her, don't worry, you're safe with me. They have to get to me before they can get to you. The boy in the woods that morning taking aim at CJ was 17, born in Jamaica, left behind by his mother and raised by other people. Years later, Sonia Wills says to the social worker working on Lee Malvo's defense, if only Malvo had looked my son in the face before he killed him, he would have seen the perfect father for whom he had been searching.
40:19Police still do not have a name. The clue that gives them one has been sitting in an evidence room in Alabama for a month. That's next time on MK Confidential.
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From the publisher
“MK Confidential” opens on the early morning stillness of October 20, 2022. The Ponderosa Steakhouse in Ashland, Virginia, is about 100 miles south of the nation’s capital. This far outside the Beltway, a couple on travel felt safely out of reach of the D.C. sniper; they were not. Now, the restaurant payphone rings, and rings, then goes silent.
Megyn Kelly hosts retired FBI Supervisory Special Agents and profilers Jim Clemente and James Fitzgerald for an exclusive MK Confidential interview. Together, they examine the shooting that took place the night before, in the Ponderosa parking lot, and the letter that the sniper left behind. Analyzing the killers’ word choice and crime scene setup, Clemente and Fitz redirect the working profile of the sniper from a lone white man in a white van, to a pair of black men — one older, one younger.
The revised profile helps investigators narrow in on the truth, as they hunt for the man – now, man — terrorizing D.C. residents into zig-zagging through parking lots for safety. The case becomes a race for communication, and against the clock. This is Episode 4 of the Beltway Snipers story.
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