The TRUTH About Nolan Wells' Alcohol Consumption, Bruises, and Deleted Messages, and the Shock Pastor Murder Trial | Ep. 1406

29:46The other situation is when the person is about to drown, they do panic, but their throat basically freezes up. They have what's called a laryngospasm, and that prevents water and air from getting in. So there may not be that much water in the lungs if that is what happened. That was a case involving a young man named Riley Strain. He was found dead in a river. It was ruled an accidental drowning. Per the medical examiner, he was drunk. And it appears that Nolan Wells was drunk too. Your thoughts on all of that, Russ? Yeah, so if I can take two quick points of personal privilege on the phone calls and then certainly we'll address the autopsy.

30:25I'd say one thing that is important is if they had had anything incriminating, right, they looked at all the text messages, they looked at all the group messages. It sounds like they were saying they were able to reconstruct everything that was deleted. If that's true and they had anything that was incriminating towards the friends, one, they would have submitted that to the grand jury when they sent their report to the grand jury. Two, they certainly would have submitted in the context of the press conference that they had yesterday. They literally came up with nothing, which means I can guarantee you they don't have anything incriminating in any of those messages.

30:55You know, I think the other thing that is really, really important just contextually is that this reminds me a lot of like labor and employment cases that happen where an employee will accuse an employer of not doing a good job and then not cooperate in the investigation. And once the investigation is over, then use their lack of cooperation or them dragging their own feet as evidence that the investigation was not done well. And I think to some degree, that's what we're seeing here. With respect to the autopsy, this is the same problem that we've had throughout this, even when they came up with the independent autopsy back on July 22nd, which is they focus really hard on language that is inflammatory or that they believe to be inflammatory, right?

31:38And they do that to the exclusion of other explanations or other evidence that makes it clear that what they're saying really isn't as inflammatory as they would suggest. So So as an example, they kept saying the throat and the lungs were missing early on. Of course, we know they weren't. Their own pathologist said that what the ME had done was standard practice or that it was rightfully done. The same thing is happening right now around the use of the words blunt force trauma. First of all, I think you could quibble as to whether or not bruising is indication of blunt force trauma or not. I think the other thing that you mentioned that is incredibly important is neither of the pathologists, including their pathologist, suggest that that was the cause of Nolan Wells' death.

32:20And you had a witness that says that Nolan had hit his head slipping off the side of another boat earlier in the day before either the Trident or the Tideline left at 430. And so, first of all, we're talking about a different boat. Let's make that clear. Second of all, there's a plausible explanation for it and one which neither pathologist identifies the cause of death. Now, on the notion of dry drowning, I mean, I think if you talk to any pathologist very early on about this, they could tell you that. I think if you did even like a rudimentary Google search, you would know that drowning is a diagnosis of exclusion.

32:56And in this instance, they were not able to identify any other cause of his death. And so people who are saying, you know, oh, there wasn't water in the lungs or there wasn't water in the stomach. One, that is not a scientific analysis for his legal team to be putting it out there to suggest that this is proof that he didn't drown is inconsistent with their own pathologist. They know very well that there is the possibility of dry drowning. It happens, they say, in from between 10 to 15 percent of the cases back to Dr. Kendall Crowns, who has no horse in this race at all. This is the chief medical examiner of a district in Fort Worth.

33:36So this is what he says about dry drowning. There can be a reflex closure of the throat, laryngospasm, when water comes in contact with the larynx around the level of the vocal cords. The vocal cords suddenly tighten, which essentially closes the throat. The individual cannot breathe, nor can any water get in. Much like in drownings in which water is inhaled, the individual dies from anoxia or lack of oxygen, getting to the brain. This used to be called dry drowning. It occurs in about 10 to 15 % of cases. At autopsy, there will be no water found in the stomach or inhaled into the lungs. So it is not the end of the story on the drowning conclusion to say there was no water in the lungs.

34:21It's only part of the story. And then you get to the toxicology. And what it looks like to me, Russ, and again, having run it by Dr. Kendall Crowns, who's an independent on all of this, is that Nolan Wells was drunk. He was definitely drunk when he died. And this is, I'll just tell you what the information is. It looks like the amount of ethanol found in his body was said to be 270 milligrams per DL. I don't know exactly what that measurement is, but it's 270 MGs per DLs of ethanol reported in deciliter. Okay, thank you. And now that's a very, very high number. But what Dr. Kendall Crowns says and what all medical examiners seem to agree on is that when a body decomposes, it can cause toxicology findings to not be perfectly reflective of the actual amount of drug, or in this case, alcohol consumed.

35:22And what he tells us is that specifically with ethanol, which is alcohol, the consumption of glucose by bacteria causes alcohol, the alcohol content in the dead body to be generated, which can artificially raise the level of alcohol, typically between 50 to 70 milligrams per deciliter, with extreme cases showing levels as high as 150 milligrams per deciliter. He writes the following to us, the level of 270 milligrams per deciliter of ethanol that was reported in Nolan Wells could be as low as 120 milligrams in his body of actual alcohol. But in reality, it would be closer to 200 milligrams per deciliter, he says, which would represent 10 12 ounce cans of beer or its equivalent in liquor and shots in the course of one hour.

36:17And there's a whole calculation. Each drink raises blood alcohol, 20 milligrams per deciliter. You metabolize 20 milligrams per deciliter per hour. So to get to 200, you have to have consumed 10 drinks in an hour. And he points out the reality is that Nolan's blood alcohol content could have been even higher. The reality looking like Nolan got very intoxicated in a very short amount of time, was drinking, was boating, was in the water, and that is a very dangerous combination. Yeah, I don't have anything to disagree with Dr. Kendall Crown's analysis on there. He's clearly a pathologist, and I don't claim to be one.

36:56I know that there is something to this idea that when you use decompositional fluid instead of blood for the testing, which this toxicology lab did, and it's important to note that this toxicology lab is an independent lab that states across the United States use. It's in Pennsylvania. It's called an NMS, very frequently used, so reputable outlet. But the decompositional fluid is a less reliable way to test than if you're testing blood. But it certainly would seem, based on everything that I've read and experience, that even if it raised the level, there certainly was a good amount of alcohol in the system.

37:36Yeah. I mean, the boys didn't try to deny that they were drinking there that day. And it looks like, I mean, if this is true, not only was Nolan drinking, but he really got his drink on in the hour before he went into the water and died. and Ben Crump, you know, very much wants us to believe that that contusion happened because, you know, your client's friends may have assaulted him. There's zero proof of that. That's what's true, Russ. Zero, zero. And both forensic evidence experts from the Crump team and the DA's team looked at that injury and said, no, that that did not kill Nolan Wells. That was not a life.

38:15It was a bruise at the base of the skull. That's it. Yeah. And, you know, I think, too, it's important to point out that, you know, as of August 13th, whenever the district attorney had asked them, do you have any evidence or witnesses that you think support criminality, that you think would support a finding of probable cause that a crime occurred, that they, of course, said no, that they had nothing that was germane, even though, you know, they had their pathologist, obviously, to go and testify. The report was available. Some of what Mr. Garrett did in terms of forensic analysis of the phone was made available as well.

38:43There's a dispute as to how much of that was made available and the timing of it. But the grand jury considered his report as well. But when directly asked the question, do you have anything that would support a finding of criminal conduct? The answer was, we don't have anything germane to that. And so for more than a month now, they've known that their own investigation did not return anything that showed criminal conduct, and they remained silent on it, right? They also are now putting out things like the cell phone information without talking about the contents of the actual messages, really.

39:19And so they have known for months what those Snapchats show. They know whether or not those Snapchat show anything that is in any way incriminating. The DA apparently does as well and has made the point that they weren't. All they showed was that his friends actually cared about him, actually were concerned about what was going on. I say all this to say that Mr. Krupp and his team have had the ability to put out the fire that they started. I think they lit a match very early on in this process and allowed it to burn through all of these surrogates on the internet, making up complete nonsense about people with no factual basis and no evidence.

40:03And they've had opportunity over the last couple of months, whether it was August 13th or whether it's now, to say very clearly, we've got no evidence that the boys accessed the phone. We've got no evidence that any of these boys did anything criminal to Nolan Wells. We've got no evidence that they hurt him in any way. And they're not willing to do that. They would rather subject people to legitimate death threats, legitimate harassment than to be honest about their own findings. And I think, you know, we've got a real problem with that. Ben Crump is still pushing the lie. We talked about this the other day that Michael Brown was murdered by a police officer in Ferguson, Missouri.

40:49It is a lie. It is a lie. Five black witnesses who watched the altercation told Barack Obama's DOJ being run by a black man, Eric Holder, that it wasn't true that Michael Brown charged the officer and had tried to assault him prior to charging him. And Ben Crump still will not correct the record on that. I don't think he'll ever correct the record on what he's doing to these boys here. He doesn't care that they're young, they're minors, that they have their whole lives in front of them, that they're going to have to carry this around. He doesn't care that they were the ones who loved and knew Nolan, unlike Ben Crump.

41:29And the D.A. seems to have had about enough of the Ben Crump show. She issued this statement just this week. Here's thought six. The narrative that three white boys and a black boy went to an island and only three white friends returned spread like wildfire. This was false. There is absolutely no evidence to support the allegations that Nolan's disappearance and death were racially motivated. Nolan's friends loved Nolan, and Nolan loved them. Nolan chose to stay on the island that day, and there is not a scintilla of evidence to contradict that. The family, the Crump team, and anyone close to Nolan knew that his disappearance and death were not the result of racial hate or violence.

42:18Yet the flames of that narrative, set against the backdrop of Mississippi's terrible history, were fanned by both people who knew the truth and those who didn't. I cannot tell you how difficult it is observing people create narratives detrimental to our community when I have true knowledge that I cannot legally or ethically share. But my job requires discipline and restraint. I am responsible for protecting the integrity of active investigations, and I will always make decisions that most faithfully protect and respect the law regardless of circumstances. That is the difference between an attorney whose duty is owed to an individual client and a district attorney whose duty is owed to the community as a whole.

43:09Oh, I mean, I can feel her frustration. And then in her paper statement, she writes, my interactions with Mr. Crump, as well as his conduct in this case, have demonstrated that he is not worthy of our trust. I did not expect that his characterization and representations in this case would be any different today, nor do I expect anything better from him in the future. But we should demand better of him. I mean, we are really bordering on explicitly defamatory conduct here, Russ. Well, I don't think we're bordering on it. I think we crossed that border a very long time ago, and it's incredibly, incredibly damaging.

43:48I think the DA's give a damn is busted at this point. She has done everything possible to ensure that this was a thorough investigation. If you think about five days worth of grand jury testimony, that may not mean anything to the average person, Megan, but I know you practice law for a while. That is an incredibly thorough grand jury investigation to hear five days worth of witnesses. The typical process would be that an investigator comes and lays out. Here's what we did in the course of our investigation. Here's what he found out. For them to hear from 40 plus witnesses, for them to hear the level of expert witnesses, the forensic reports and all of that was something that is above and beyond what is normal.

44:27And then the letter evidence is very clear that she gave Crump and his legal team every opportunity to submit witnesses, every opportunity to submit information that they thought was relevant or germane to a potential criminal investigation. and they said they had none. And so, yeah, I think at this point, she's looking at the same scenario that I mentioned earlier, where someone essentially set up a claim that the investigation was not going to be thorough at the very beginning, and then didn't cooperate, and then at the end came back and used their lack of cooperation as evidence that the investigators had done a poor job.

45:00And at some point, no matter how unbiased you are, no matter how much integrity you have, you have the ability and the right to stand up for yourself and to say, that's not true. And I think that's what this district attorney is doing. Let me say this too really quickly, because we talked about Mississippi before when I was on with you and I told you how much I love this state. The Mississippi Gulf Coast is a really, really special place too. It is very different from the rest of the state of Mississippi. I grew up in Hancock County, which is down on the Gulf Coast, lived in Gulfport, which is another city down there.

45:30Still have a lot of family friends down there. In a lot of ways, it's a little bit more like New Orleans and South Louisiana than it is the rest of Mississippi. It is very laissez-faire. You know, people give you the shirts off their back. We just celebrated the 21st anniversary of Katrina, Megan. And I will tell you that there was no racial litmus test in Katrina, right? Neighbors help neighbors regardless of their background, regardless of their skin color, because that's how Mississippi operates. You know, Governor Barber used to talk about hitching up your britches. That's what we did during Katrina.

46:00And there was no sense of, oh, we're only going help this group of people or that group of people, right? We just helped everybody because that's what the coast is like. And it's been maligned in a way that is horribly unfair by someone who, whose entire professional career is based off of dividing communities like Ocean Springs, Mississippi. It is a very cool little community. It did not deserve that. And in some ways, what we're talking about here is a perfect example of transcending a negative racial past. You had a group of friends that were mixed race that hung out all the time that had this Snapchat group thread where they all cut it up, cut up and kid with each other.

46:43Right. Where Mr. Wells was staying the night at one of these friends houses and regularly stayed the night at these boys houses. So this is not a situation where there's anything to suggest racial animus. In fact, the situation suggests the exact opposite. It suggests a community. Rush, you weren't here when I made this point yesterday or two days ago and you were on because you had to run. But I did make the point after you left. I have dear friends whose 17-year-old son died during COVID of myocarditis. And the ones who got them through it, the ones who helped them deal with their grief, their son was Blake Barklage.

47:22Their names are Allison and Tom Barklage. More than anyone were Blake's eight best friends. They called him the Divine Nine, and the Divine Nine came over and helped Tom put up the Christmas tree decorations because he always did that with Blake, and he couldn't do it that year. On the exterior of the house, he broke down in tears. They were there in minutes to help that dad. Like, they have been the most soothing balm to the mom and dad for five years now. And this Ben Crump and Al Sharpton inserted themselves in this case in a way that I think corrupted the minds of Nolan Wells' parents because I don't think they started off blaming whites for everything.

48:02I don't think they would have allowed Nolan to be friends. They wouldn't have raised a boy like Nolan who would be friends with a bunch of white kids and mixed race in their friend group. I think they've been exploited in their time of grief. And this is, yet their victims have been crumped too because they too, like my friends the Barkledges, could be getting comforted by your client and the other boys who I'm sure would love to have a healing moment with Nolan's parents, but now cannot. Yeah, look, I think that entire community continues to pray for the Wansley family, for Nolan's family. You know, it certainly has been a difficult situation because without the level of division that's been created, these families would all be wrapping their arms around that family.

48:45And so I think in a lot of ways, it's disrupted the natural progress or process of healing here. I just would reiterate, though, at some level that that group of friends or those friendships that we're talking about are the exact opposite of the way that people are now portraying Mississippi and the Mississippi Gulf Coast. The depth of that friendship was proof of something that transcends the racial tension that Mr. Crump and others are now trying to create. and it's really disheartening and disappointing, but maybe not entirely unexpected based upon his past. My only comfort here is that they've shot their best ammo.

49:31There's nothing more. These boys had nothing to do with it, as I 100 % believe. There's not going to be anything more manufactured by Ben Crump. There's nothing out there. And so they don't have anything to worry about because if you're innocent, then it doesn't matter. There's not going to be a text message. There's not going to be an eyewitness, a videotape, a cell phone. It won't come out because it doesn't exist. And therefore, this story will go away. And even Ben Crump will move on to his next race hustle. We've been watching him do it for years. Russ, our regards to your client and all the boys affected by this.

50:07Thank you for coming on. Thanks for having me. God, what a case. It's infuriating. And yet we know this playbook. do we not? Up next, the pastor with the mistress and apparently a gun. When it comes to supplements, we all know that there are two things that matter, that it works and that you can trust it. Rather than just tell you about relief factor, we often bring you what their real customers have to say. One, Jim, said he ran out of relief factor twice and that both times his aches, stiffness, and pain came back. Once he restarted it, he says he felt better again. As Jim puts it, you know something working when you run out of it.

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52:36All right, we're finally getting into this case of the Ohio pastor, Caleb Flynn, former American Idol contestant who very clearly murdered his wife. He denies it. He's pleaded not guilty. All right, that did happen. And this case broke months ago. The murder happened February 16th of 2026. So it's relatively recent, but it's been in the news for a while. and people always suspect the husband. I mean, in 90 % of the cases, it is the husband and, you know, just kind of, he didn't have an alibi. He said he was home, but he was in the children's room when it happened. And so it was just very sketchy and, you know, the cops arrested him within four days.

53:21So I don't know, people understood, yeah, it's probably him. But it wasn't until this week when we actually got to meet his mistress and not just his mistress, She was 20 years old, some 19 years his junior when they were doing it. And it went on for years from 2024 to 2026. And there are over 300 ,000 text messages between the two of them. It's like 100 ,000 in a year. It's insane. It's insane. I mean, they were obsessed with each other. And I've got to be honest, she's an attractive woman and he's not an attractive man at all. So I don't totally understand what happened here other than have you watched the Netflix special on this other bizarro pastor who's being accused by his now deceased wife's family of driving her to suicide or possibly even worse?

54:21that too involved a much older pastor and a much younger woman and a relationship that started in an affair. Now, he wound up marrying this young woman and then, as I said, kind of mentally torturing her based on the documentary. He denies it. In any event, the point is both these guys were in a position of authority. A pastor absolutely is in a position of authority over the people in his parish, and in particular, the young people. And I think a young woman, now this is the affair partner I'm showing you here. Here she is when she's a couple years later, Alea. Though this is all relatively recent.

54:59So again, she's, you know, her young 20s still. And she connects with this guy, but I'm getting ahead of myself, okay? So I'm just saying the reason this exploded this week, if you haven't heard about it, is because we met Alea, and we have on the stand testimony of her reading the text messages between them, which, you know, of course, they're like, I love you. But it's a lot of like, I can't fucking stand my awful wife and I want her dead. I want you to kill her. I want to kill her. And then the affair partner, Alea, like I want her dead too. I mean, these are the worst crime committers ever.

55:38And it looks to me like she may have had some idea this is going to happen, but clearly the prosecution's using her and she's, you know, she's singing like a bird now on this guy, Caleb Flynn, her pastor, her sweet pastor. But yeah, that dumbest criminal ever, like so stupid. It's kind of offensive. Like we'd like to try to heart, try a little harder to figure out a crime. I think as a true crime aficionado, I speak for most of us when I say like, we kind of enjoy the mystery of it when we get past the awfulness of it. I think one of the things that attracts people to the true crime world is it's the same thing that attracts geeks to math, like the ability to problem solve.

56:18And many of us don't have that wonderful ability when it comes to numbers, but we do or think we do when it comes to crime. This guy's made it too easy, which is one of the reasons why this case isn't that compelling. But let's face it, this gal on the stand reading these texts is you can't take your eyes off of it. I mean, it's just like stunning. Okay. But I'm going to go back to the beginning just to give you a little little primer before we get into what the actual testimony has been. Um, Caleb Flynn is 40 years old. He was what's called a worship pastor, a guy who combines both his musical duties at a church with his pastoral ones.

56:55So he's not just the music director, but he's actually acting as a pastor inside the congregation. Um, he met his now deceased wife, Ashley in college. They got married in 2010. She was 37 when she died. He's currently 40, as I said. He appeared briefly on season 12 of American Idol back in 2013. Here's a bit of how that went. My name is Caleb Flynn. I'm from Tip City, Ohio. I auditioned because I'm sure everybody says it, but music is all I know. It's what I live to do, and I love to sing, so that's why I auditioned. Maybe my wife kind of nudge me a little bit too. I'm a music pastor and so that's my job every week is to go up there and to sing and to connect what I do on stage of the congregation.

57:47So first and foremost obviously is the Lord. The thing that makes me unique, you know, I absolutely love the Lord. I love my wife more than anything. She is very, very pretty. Just, I love her. My favorite past idol contestant would probably be Carrie Underwood. She's just absolutely incredible. Love her attitude and just her passion for what she does. And I promise you, if my wife dyed her hair blonde, she would look just like her. So sweet. Such a bright future. Or not. So his very, very pretty wife is the one he allegedly killed and whose family gave him a job that was purportedly worth over$200 ,000 a year, maybe$250 ,000.

58:34So he was doing rather well, thanks to her family. And his love of the Lord, I guess, didn't extend to not killing people. Generally, when you really believe in the Lord and Jesus, you understand he's against murder, which this guy's been accused of. But he's married to Ashley, they have two daughters and they're living in this tip city, Ohio, which is just north of Dayton. The prosecution alleges that on February 16th, 2026, Ashley, the wife, was found dead inside their home. She was shot twice in the back of the head while she slept. The 911 call, You know, we all listen to the 911 call and we think we can tell.

59:22It's not always accurate. Sometimes the overly dramatic ones are actually telling the truth. And sometimes the stoic ones who show no emotion are telling the truth. And sometimes they're not. But I have to say, like, this sounds so fake and, like, over the top to me. This guy's 911 call. Here it is in part. Oh, my God. Miami County 911. Oh, my God. Somebody broke into my home. Somebody broke into my home. It killed my wife. Are they still in there? I don't know. I don't know. Okay, what's the address? 932 County Ham Court, Pitt City, Ohio. Please, please, hurry. Please, please, hurry. What are you seeing?

1:00:00My wife is crazy. She's got two shots to her head. There's blood everywhere. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Sir, please, please, please. Ma 'am, I need you to take a deep breath, okay? Do you still see anybody in the house? No, the door to the garage is wide open. please hurry please oh my god oh my god oh my god my daughters are here my my daughters are here where is she at she's in the bed she's in the bed are you with her yeah i am in the room i'm looking at her yes please oh my god oh my god oh my god oh my god oh my god sir please please they're they are heading that way okay i need you to take a deep breath for me.

1:00:45Are you hearing anything? No, I rubbed her leg and said her name. She's not answering. Okay, are you hearing any kind of noise inside the house? No, no, her face is, oh sir, her face is white as good, goes straight to me. Okay, whose face? My wife's face. Your wife's face? Yes, the one who was shot. She was what? Shot, I said. Okay, where was she shot at? In the head, in the head. I don't know. There's blood everywhere. I need you to just take a deep breath for me, okay? Okay, okay. Just get that cloth, and I want you to put it on that wound, but don't apply direct pressure to it, okay? They're coming to you as quick as they can, okay?

1:01:38I just laid it on her head. Okay. Sir, sir, sir. The cop, the cop is here. Okay, I want you to... Okay, open the door for him so he can get into her, okay? Okay, he's coming to me. Sir, hurry! Sir, hurry!

1:01:58What? I don't know. The door to the cross was wide open. I'm her husband.

1:02:10Okay. So he's totally distraught. He would have you believe. I don't think anybody believed it since he was under arrest in four days. He wanted cops to believe that an intruder had come into his home in the middle of the night and shot his wife and that he was allegedly in the children's room at the time. Again, they have two daughters at the time. This happened last February. They were ages nine and 11. I think they're now 10 and 12. They've both had birthdays. And there he is in all of his drama. This guy's been full of drama from the beginning. He was like fake hyperventilating, fake dry heaving.

1:02:45In court, he's constantly breaking down to tears like, good Lord. I mean, like the histrionics of him. He's very, very worried he's going to jail. That's really what it is. Here he is. Here he is in court listening to the playing of his 911 call. Oh, so painful for him because poor Ashley's gone. Okay, sure. This goes on. By the way, how poorly has he aged? Look at this guy. You show me this, I'd probably guess, and he's like, late 60s? I don't know. You could pass for 67 here. He's 40. I mean, when he was on American Idol, he looked like a relatively young guy. Look at this. This was 13 years ago.

1:03:28So he was 30. He was 27. Look at the difference between 27 and 40 for this guy, Caleb Flynn. It's been a rough 13 years and a rough 10 months for him in particular. It's going to get even rougher when he gets convicted, which is what I predict will happen. Okay, but so he calls 911. They come over to investigate. They did give him a test for gunshot residue on his body and clothing. None was found, nor was the murder weapon. She was shot with a 9mm. That's not great for the prosecution. That's kind of the only two facts that the defense has going for it, that there's no gunshot residue on him and that there's no murder weapon.

1:04:14There is a 9mm weapon of his that's missing and unaccounted for. And one of the incriminating things we heard in the 911 call was him saying she's been shot twice. She's been shot. She had two shots, he said, in the head. And what the forensic examiners have said is that would have been impossible to know, that you shoot somebody in the head in that situation, and especially if you do shoot them twice, the head is going to be such a mess that no person just coming into the room would understand it was multiple gunshots. They would just see carnage. And by the way, there was testimony just this week by Dr.

1:04:56Brian Castro, who had examined all the pictures of the autopsy, et cetera. And this is what he said, Sat 17. This is a picture of the back of the head. And there has not been any washing done at this point. So you're seeing hair and brain matter and blood obscuring what eventually is determined to be two gunshot wounds to the back of the right side of the head. Just viewing this photo, can you tell how many gunshot wounds there are? Yeah. Now, and he's an expert, but the husband, distraught to have just stumbled upon his dead wife, could immediately tell that there were two gunshots to the head.

1:05:42I doubt it. So from the stupid criminal files, they all think they're smarter than law enforcement. And few are. Okay, so we get to trial. Began last week. And here's a bit from the prosecution's opening where they talked a bit about the text messages we're going to get into. SOT 16. I was up until 4 a.m. last night. Crying. Literally trying to think of ways to kill her and not go to jail. If I could literally kill her and not go to hell, I would do it in a heartbeat. That is how dark and how hateful I feel. Those two messages are Caleb Flynn's own words. the words about his wife Ashley, words communicated to his mistress.

1:06:42Those messages were sent months apart and before Ashley's murder. It's a treasure trove of info inside those text messages. I mean, a treasure trove. These two dum-dums. Yeah, the prosecutors told the jurors that Flynn and Alea That exchanged more than 100 ,000 messages over roughly a year. There are 34 binders of messages inside this courtroom in which he continuously talks about how much he hated his wife and had his chosen code name for her, which was douche, repeated over and over and over. But enough about Caleb Flynn's projection. um here's a bit of how the defense is arguing the case from their opening statement take a listen here in sod 18 they can't show you if caleb had a gun in his hand that night they can't show you if caleb pulled the trigger they can't show you if caleb damaged the door they can't give you the date that the door was damaged they are merely guessing and they're asking you to do the exact same thing.

1:07:51They're even asking you to convict Caleb of a tampering with a gun charge on a sole basis that they can't find him. There's no forensic evidence linking Caleb to these crimes. There is no eyewitness, as the state has already told you, that Caleb was the shooter. There's no surveillance footage of Caleb that night. There's no gunshot residue found on Caleb or his clothing. There's no time of death from the coroner. The only fingerprints that the state has are those of Caleb in his own home where he's lived since 2021. The state has no direct evidence as to what happened, only a theory following an affair.

1:08:28A tragedy deserves more than a theory. Okay. That might have worked without the text messages, but unless we have another Casey Anthony situation on our hands, like a bunch of dumb jurors who are easily misled, sorry, they should come to the right conclusion rather easily. Here's what happened. The two daughters were told after their father was arrested that he was being charged with killing their mother. These poor girls at this tender age have now lost both parents. Their mom is dead. Their dad is under arrest for having done it. And Ashley's sister, the young girl's aunt, testified about the two daughters and telling them, saying that they were heartbroken at the time, but she elaborated just a bit as follows.

1:09:21Sot 19. What was their reaction to understanding that there was an affair with someone that they personally knew? They, let's see.

1:09:39They were shocked. they were upset for their mommy because they said she loved daddy more than anyone else in life so why did daddy not love her as much and so but when we told her then who it was the oldest said i'm not surprised okay The oldest was not surprised. Of course, the oldest knew this young woman, Alea, from the church, I'm sure, where her dad was working as this pastor and was not shocked at all to find out that this surprise was the affair partner of her father for some 18 months, according to the testimony, from 2024 to around early 2026. It ended after a murder was committed. That doesn't tend to be like a massive turn on for affair partners who are in their young 20s, as it turns out, or at least so she would have us believe.

1:10:40They saw each other at least once a week. They traveled to nearby cities together where no one would recognize them. They discussed getting married one day. He took her out behind, you know, fast food restaurants in his truck. Yeah, whatever. Okay. It's like losers having, having an extramarital affair and it would kind of stop at that. It's a tale as old as time. If one of them hadn't blown his wife's head off, what the fuck? Like, honestly, all I can think of is the lines of Sharon Rocha at the sentencing of Scott Peterson. why didn't you just divorce her? Why didn't you just divorce her? Divorce is always an option.

1:11:29You know, this guy in the text messages seemed, because the affair partner, Alea, kept saying to him, you know, like, I want to, please leave her. I want to be together. And he's like, I want to be together too. But it was really his daughters that he was allegedly concerned about hurting. But I guess he thought like a softer place would be for them, for him to, again, blow their mother's head off. That would be a softer, kinder thing to do rather than just announce they're going to get a divorce. I mean, of course, we all know that in the one scenario, when there's a divorce, daddy might look bad.

1:11:58In the other scenario, if she just gets murdered by an evil intruder and you're never caught for it, you're just the doting, caring dad there to pick up the pieces, you're the hero. And Caleb Flynn was a little too drunk on his own wine and thought he could play that role. Well, guess what? Text messages are forever, at least for the most part. So here's an interesting exchange, and then I'll get into what the text messages actually exchanged. There was testimony by the affair partner, Alea, about an exchange they had deep into this whole thing about whether Their 100 ,000 messages could be deleted and not retrieved in any legal proceedings, say.

1:12:43Listen to SOT 21. He said, so we're 100%. These messages can't be retrieved. And I said, that's what I found when I chat GPT'd it. I'll check again. I remember it saying that once these threads are deleted, you can't get them back. He said, okay, good deal.

1:13:03Okay. And we actually looked into that just for kicks because doesn't everybody want to know the answer to that? It's kind of interesting. Here's our info. iCloud, Google Drive, and carrier backups often store full message histories even if you delete a chat. Phone companies keep metadata, like who texted whom and when, even if the content isn't stored long term. If the person with whom you're texting has their phone seized, your messages are on there if they didn't delete them as well. Digital forensic specialists can recover messages months or even years after deletion, especially when the physical device is in police custody.

1:13:46The moment a phone is seized, assume everything on it is potentially recoverable. Even if you factory reset your phone, forensic tools can sometimes recover data from residual memory, memory, excuse me, don't count on deletion as a defense strategy. So a deletion is never a deletion. Just, I'm sorry to break it to you, but you might actually need to be a good person now in 2026 America. You should not be relying on the deletion of texts as protection for any bad behavior, shall we say. Not trying to help people get away with murder or affairs, but just FYI, Chad GPT once again got it wrong. Didn't I say I signed off Chad GPT?

1:14:31I haven't used it since. I asked Chad GPT a question about Trump's second term, and it responded, Trump didn't win a second term. That's election denialism. He was not reelected president. Joe Biden was elected the lawful president of the United States. like, are you an idiot, chat GPT? Like, what is happening here? This was like a couple of months ago. I'm like, don't, Trump is in the middle of his second term right now. They do not need to be consecutive in order to be considered the first and the second. And then you get the stupid apology from chat. It's like, just know that's who you're relying on for information.

1:15:14If you base your research, depending on what your job is, on information from ChatGPT, which is why I don't. It's one thing if you want to use it as like a fail-safe, like I think this thing happened and you're looking for a confirmation and maybe you check, then you X out of the AI search and you check the actual news articles, but be very careful about relying on AI only. It can lead you down the wrong road. And the next thing you know, you're on the stand testifying and write your text messages with the accused over there who murdered his wife as evidenced by his many text messages to you in which you sound disgusting too.

1:15:53All right, I'll give you one on camera because she was no angel either in these messages. She was 21 when they got together. She's 24 now, as I said. She was young, that's no excuse. I think I would have understood at age 21. Not a great idea to do this in the first place and certainly not a great idea to be having sex with a married man who's talking about killing his wife and every other text message is a request to me to kill or a statement that he's going to. I think at age 21, I would have realized, this might not be a great guy. I might be in a difficult position here. So here she is crying, breaking down on the stand when she gets confronted with some of his nastiness and hers.

1:16:40Sat 22. 64 ,281.

1:16:47Sorry.

1:16:52I just wish I didn't say this. Spit it out. What was the message said?

1:17:03I didn't mean it. It says... It says I want to kill her, Caleb. Who said that? Me. Next message. I said it so bad. Next message. He said that makes two of us. I didn't mean it. I didn't mean it. You're playing with fire, sister. It's all fun and games until the wife winds up dead and two little girls have lost their mom. No one gives a shit about your stupid tears. Good luck. Here's a bit of how it looked. It's actually very interesting. I went back and looked at the coverage from February of 2026 until this week. And it's been like nothing. They didn't know there was a rumor about this gal possibly being his affair partner.

1:17:53But nobody knew what the prosecution had in its back pocket with these texts. And it would be bad enough if they were steamy and like, I want you. I want to be with you. That would suck. but I mean explicit demands that she'd be murdered and like promises to murder and like dreams and fantasies about murdering. I like, it's great. I love it when the terrible people are dumb. So here's a few. Okay, we'll start a year ago. March of 2025, murder happened in February of 26. Flynn, that's Caleb. It's basically Caleb and Alaya. Caleb, I just want her dead and gone. Alaya, what can I do? Caleb, kill her.

1:18:35Caleb, May 16th, 2025. If I could literally kill her and not go to hell, I would do it in a heartbeat. That's how dark and hateful I feel. Two days later, May 18th, 2025. Caleb, that's why I constantly tell you I hate her, loathe her, I want her dead. June of 2025, Caleb. We have to get rid of Douche, his pet nickname for her when he was talking to his affair partner. I need you, you're my everything. All right, I just want to like, point of objection here. A man can't call a woman a douche. It doesn't work. I don't know why, but it doesn't. He also calls her bitch and everything. A douche, I think, is a universal term for a man.

1:19:16He's being a douche. Am I wrong? Like, please email me. I'm pretty sure it's not official, but just those of us who are in the swearing game and the derogatory words game, douche is something you call a dude. Okay. Anyway, like I said, he's not smart. We have to get rid of douche. I need you. You're my everything. And what a weird mixture of like inappropriate, disgusting, like, I don't know, below the belt awfulness about the mother of one's children parlayed with, you're my everything, a little love letter, like fucking douchebag, slut whore. I love you. You're my everything. Can't wait until we spend our whole lives together in bliss.

1:20:00You know, like what's going on? Got like a split personality, this guy. Caleb, July 10th, 2025. Do you know how badly I want to say F it to any rules and any barriers and just love you with my entire heart for the rest of my life? Then she responds, I want to kill her, Caleb. What? What? Wait, what? I thought we were talking about how we were going to be together and I was going to love you with my entire heart for the rest of my life. I want to kill her. says the sweet, the sweet little mistress, Alea. That makes two of us, he joins in. August, August 22nd, 2025. Caleb, all I want is you. I'm sorry I hurt you.

1:20:45She keeps getting hurt because he's not leaving the wife and she's catching on to him periodically here. I was up until 4 a.m. last night crying. Well, that I believe. And literally thinking of ways to kill her and not go to jail. So dumb. She responds, I'm not asking that you take her life, obviously, because that's not what you should do. And I know you actually wouldn't, but to make the divorce happen, it would change everything. Good. So this girl is smarter than he is because she actually wrote something that would cover her ass potentially. And then she at least tried to see whether text messages could be deleted forever.

1:21:24And then she was smart enough to ask the question, but not so smart to not believe chat GPT. Okay. Maybe she'll get there. She's young. September 8th, 2025. Caleb, I hate her. I hate everything about her. I mean, at what point does she say, like, I know you've said that many times, come up with a more interesting message. September 30th, 2025. Caleb tells Alea he's willing to sacrifice his, quote, daughters, a quarter million dollar salary job, a place to live, possibly a church I serve at, public shame and humiliation, and way more to be with Alea. Then he asks her to unfollow a man on social media, sarcastically calling it a big sacrifice.

1:22:10And then at some point, we don't know, it's in the fall of 2025. Aleah grows a pair and writes, until she's gone, I'm gone. And we do see periodic harassment on her part of trying to get him to leave her, you know, actually leave her the way, you know, the divorce laws provided for. Until she's gone, I'm gone. And ultimately, we believe what was the catalyst for the murder was she did actually break up with him in January of 26. Aleah was like, I'm done. I no longer believe you and I'm out of here. And guess what? He pulled the trigger within weeks. Allegedly, he denies it. January of 26. Aleah.

1:22:53Do you know how many times you've said you're going to fast and then leave her? Going to fast and then leave her? Okay, that's what she wrote. This will literally be your fourth time you've prayed protection or fasted about how? Aleah. As Jesus is my witness right now, I swear on everything, I swear on absolutely everything that I love. If you do not leave her next week, I don't want this anymore for the rest of my life because now we're in January, 2026. The murder's coming. No date given, but we think around this timeframe. Caleb, I'm sorry, this sucks. Caleb, if I could literally kill her and not go to hell, I would do it in a heartbeat.

1:23:28Unless she dies, cheats again, or we find a way to get rid of her, she will be around. Now he keeps saying in these texts, I believe it is to put the affair partner's mind at ease that his wife Ashley cheated on him. There's no evidence of that. And there's been testimony at trial that there's, that that's not true. So I have no idea what the story is. Does he actually believe it? I doubt it. Did she have a flirtation that he's counting as cheating? No, he's probably just a prick. I think he's probably just lying to the affair partner to make her feel better and himself better about his behavior, but whatever.

1:24:04It's irrelevant. Who gives a shit? You don't, you don't get to kill somebody because they cheat on you. Um, Alaya texts him, please hire someone to take douche out. I need you in my life. I need you. Then Caleb responds. So tempting. It's unbelievable. Like again, this little old sweet little mistress is no shrinking violet either. That's like, amazing. Please hire someone to take douche out. Now, let me ask you something. How sure are we that this woman had nothing to do with it? I mean, it doesn't seem like they're presenting that at trial. And in fact, there's been, I think, a fair amount of witness testimony suggesting that she was where she said she was on the night that Ashley was murdered.

1:24:48But man, you read these texts and you're like, are we bulletproof on that? Because like, ah, she seemed very much in favor of a hit on this woman and like maybe even possible of pulling the trigger herself. But I, I mean, you gotta, you gotta put your money on Caleb at this point for all the obvious reasons. Um, the testimony continues to come out that she was house sitting for a different pastor on the night in question. There was testimony about her phone having been placed down and put out of use, you know, airplane mode or what have you in the evening. You know, I don't remember the exact timing off the top of my head, but it was in the evening, like hours before Ashley was killed.

1:25:30And then it did not get up and get used until like 7.30 in the morning, but the phone went back on. And then two hours later, she got out of bed. So it showed she was like lying there, you know, using it, or she turned it on at least and then moved about without it. Now that doesn't mean she didn't get out of the house in those hours without her phone. You know, I mean, a lot of us put our phone on airplane mode at night and if we get up to go to the bathroom, we don't go get our phone and bring it with us. And so it wouldn't be reflected on there. Even if, especially if you got up and left the house, unless you're wearing an Apple watch or an aura ring or something, how would anybody know?

1:26:05So there's that, but it does seem like the prosecution does not believe she had anything to do with it. That's, that's how it looks to me from what we've heard so far, but she certainly seemed to be in favor of it. here's another one from her. Life with you and loving you is so easy and just makes sense. I've fallen so madly in love. I don't want to settle for anything less than Caleb. We have to get rid of douche. I love you. You're my everything. My heart and my soul, my best friend, my love, my better half. Alea, I don't even want to say this in a joking way anymore. We need a solution, Caleb.

1:26:40We need it to be me and you forever. No exceptions. Caleb, I've never joked about it. February 11th. Now we are within days of the murder. Caleb, I need her to die, to cheat again, to leave. There it is right there. Valentine's day of February 26th, uh, 2026, two days before the murder. Caleb messaged Alaya to say he was quote free, but quote, shouldn't text or leave any trails. Now the murder wouldn't have him for two more days. So I don't know what he means by free, but he's realizing a little too late. The text message game may be dangerous. Now we're Feb 15, day before the murder. Caleb said he was going to tell his wife he planned to leave her and get a divorce.

1:27:30Writes quote, it's kind of crazy. I'm not scared tomorrow. I guess he means about tomorrow. I mean, I'm not looking forward to it and it's about to be a crap fest here moving forward, but I'm not scared of it. Quote, I just want to be free of her, have my girls and have a chance to start a life with you. I choose you, he writes. I'm free. Actions will come tomorrow. Actions will come tomorrow. Now, there's more. Caleb would say that he had practiced what he was going to say to the two daughters, saying that he would tell them that the divorce was a result of their mother's alleged infidelity. I'm just going to be truthful with the girls, he said in one message.

1:28:09It won't be graphic, but we will say that Ashley sinned and betrayed any trust or loyalty. We will read them the Bible verse about a man leaving because of this. I'll be much more sensitive to them, but just have to be honest with them. Then he writes to Aleah, Aleah, I love you. If you give me just one more chance, I'll love you until the day you die. I'll show you that love is real and love does last. Unless you fall in love with a 20 year old, in which case it ends in you getting your head blown off if you marry this guy. So be very careful, Alea. But it's amazing to me. So it seems to me that at this point he's realized, oh God, I have to be careful about texts.

1:28:46And so far too late in the game, he shifts his text game to, I'm going to ask for a divorce. And like, he doesn't, doesn't think that like the authorities are going to even think that was suspicious. You know what I mean? Like, let's say all they had was he was going to ask her for divorce. And then she winds up shot to death. Like, how did he not think that was going to come back on him? I don't, I don't know. I'd love to hear him answer these questions. Final midnight exchange. This is, I think, February 15th into February 16th. So technically, it's the very wee hours of February 16th. He, she texts, you're about to be free.

1:29:28He responds, I choose you, Alea. You're more than enough. Good night. She writes back, good night, praying now. He writes, thank you, praying for you as well. Good night. Less than two hours after this exchange, he placed that frantic emergency services call claiming an intruder had entered their home and killed Ashley. Now here's another interesting piece. When news of Ashley Flynn's death broke, Alea texted him, Caleb, I just saw the news. Someone told me to pray for Mrs. Flynn. What is going on right now? Were you behind this? Caleb, it didn't happen the way we thought it would, did it? And then he follows up, a day I'll never forget.

1:30:11It's a very odd way to speak about your wife getting murdered as though it's like a graduation ceremony. Not sure what he was after. Now he's sitting in court and he is getting defended same way they did Scott Peterson, just because he had an affair, may make him a shitty person and a bad husband, doesn't make him a murderer. Where's the proof of murder? No gunshot residue, no eyewitness, no weapon. All you've got is text messages. That worked better. I should say had the chance of working better in the Scott Peterson case where we didn't have messages saying, I want her dead. Please kill her.

1:30:57I want to kill her. Tonight's the night. You can play that a little better without all those. So this defense attorney, they've got their hands full. For many people starting a fitness routine, going to the gym without a clear goal or structure often leads to random exercises and minimal progress. While traditional personal training offers structured strength training, it can often be cost prohibitive and difficult to fit into your busy schedule. This is where the ladder app comes in, ladder, like a ladder that you climb. It will transform your daily routine. It acts like an elite personal trainer right in your headphones.

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1:35:23yesterday in court they played songs that he used ai to write for her uh and apparently like everybody in the courtroom was rolling their eyes this was so cringy we have just a little bit of it watch

1:36:00This is terrible.

1:36:10All right, we've been subjected enough of this. The poor Parrish, he's the music director? You'd think he'd be able to come up with better than that. Good gracious. Just pick a beautiful song. I don't know. Like, what's, yeah, so it's not going well. What happened today was the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigation Special Agent Joseph Wilhelm took the stand, reported that he had managed to extract a note from their messages that read, you gave it all with the lyrics to that song. So he linked it to that hideous song. And then a woman named Andrea Kinzig took the stand. She's an FBI special agent.

1:36:54She performed an extraction of the victim, Ashley Flynn's cell phone, testified there was no information on her phone to indicate she was involved in an affair. Here's a bit of that. What evidence did you discover in regards to Ashley Flanby involved in an extra-marital affair? I did not find anything on the cell phone to indicate she was involved in an extra-marital affair. She said there were text messages between husband and wife, Ashley and Caleb, in January and part of February that did reveal some of Ashley's frustrations. Quote, there was a message where Caleb stated he was worshiping and that he would call Ashley back later.

1:37:33Ashley responded, he could be honest and asked, is it her? And it has come out that she was aware, she became aware thanks to seeing a text message exchange of his affair with Alea. Clearly wanted it to end and it didn't. The only time it ended was a month before the murder when Alea ended it. and he appears to have dealt with that in the most severe fashion possible. It's gotten very, very dark in there. Here is even Alea turning on him now in Sot 23 from The Stand. How would you describe your feelings for the defendant today?

1:38:17I hate him. Have you ever felt differently about him? Yes. When? And how did you feel? When we were in a relationship and I thought I was in love. Why the change from love to hate? Because I believe that he murdered his wife. Good call. A little late to the party, but you're getting there. Hang in there, sweetheart. So I think this guy's going down and we will continue to cover it if there's any big surprise. we'll be reporting on, of course. All right. In the time we have left, we have got to talk about Kamala Harris. So we played the soundbite for you yesterday with Glenn of the, like the new, the renewed black scent, right?

1:39:07It was very strange. Like, it is not important to, I can't, Like half drunk and half like she's from the street. Okay, sure. It's very strange. And if I may, insulting to black people when she adopts this accent as though, you know, that in her head is how a stereotypical black person sounds. But she was in front of the NAACP and she went for it. Now she's gone on this podcast called Big Boy TV. And my friends, she's at it again. Not exactly with the accent, but with the absolutely nonsensical talk in which she tries to sound smart about something, in this case, algorithms, but isn't. Watch. if you keep seeing the same thing over and over again know that you are being targeted because you looked at it the first time they're just going to keep sending it to you which means they're trying to dumb people down with the assumption that people don't have any interest beyond what they've already seen think about that oh yeah the algorithm right but the algorithm suggesting i have no more interest because i'm looking at this yellow flower i'm only interested the yellow flowers.

1:40:24So here's more yellow. As though my brain can't handle the fact that there may be a pink flower that I might be interested in looking at. Right. And so part of it is understanding how the algorithm is manipulating us and figuring out how we're going to psych it out a bit. Oh my God. Can you imagine if she were like your mother and you had no choice but to sit around the dinner table and be forced to listen to that. I'm starting to understand Doug Emhoff's daughter, the one who has got like the weird look and she kind of looks androgynous and she's supposedly a runway model. A lot better. Starting to get it.

1:41:05It's like a rebellion against years sitting around family dinner tables and holidays with that. What? She's such a simpleton. She never says anything inspirational, informational. Half the time she's wrong factually and the other half she's just breaking out her latest accent and doing a pander. Let's take another deep dive into this interview. Thought 32 about power and hope. How do you tell someone either it's going to be okay or things could change when you actually look out and what's in front of you is extremely scary? I believe in the power of the people. And that includes believing that part of our hope comes from our ability to fight for what we know is right.

1:42:01And then to see the progress and the potential for the progress and let that give us hope. What? Right. I believe very strongly. If you feel powerless, you are powerless. Right. If you feel powerful, you are powerful. And we are powerful. But knowing that is what makes it happen. And so if we're feeling hopeless, we are less likely to feel powerful. And I believe you should never let anybody take your power from you. Oh, my God. Remember this? We were subjected to this for like a year, a year. Like, that's how it felt. I guess it was 104 days, technically, but it felt like 10 years of hard labor and sing sing.

1:42:58That, I'm triggered. Are you triggered? I'm triggered. That brought me right back to the campaign and how painful her inanities were. 107 days of nightmarish pablum. She's spoon-fed to random media fools who pretended she was saying something profound like Oprah, Kamala Harris. There's one more. I'm sorry to be doing this to you. This is very cruel for a Friday afternoon, but if I have to hear it, so do you. Here we go, was about 34. You're the people person and you want to see that there's a texture to you and there's a texture of being human and I think that's what we see in you and what we feel we're missing.

1:43:46We're missing, I feel like we're missing a human quality right now. Yeah. And I'm pretty sure you probably feel. We have to see it in each other, right? It gets back to your point about hopelessness and stuff. We have to, you know, you see it, I can see it in your eyes and in your speech when you talk about your son and your daughter and your wife. We have to see it in your team, right? We have to see it in each other. We cannot lose hope. It's so, we are each, we are all worth fighting for, right? And it's for something. It's not against Right, right. Something is for something. Right. So let's hold on to that.

1:44:31Oh, my God. That verbal tick of saying, right, after everything, in order to make it sound more profound, is so annoying. She does it all the time. It is a natural thing in communication to every once in a while say, right? You heard it there. First of all, this is obviously a hit on Trump. There's a texture. His questions are as dumb as her answers, for the record. There's a texture to you and to being human. There's a texture to being human. Okay. What we're missing here is that human quality. Clearly, I think it's a reference to Trump. We have to see it in each other. I can see it in your eyes when you talk about your son, right?

1:45:20Right. We're all we all want to fight for each other. Right. This is the substitute for anything of substance. And we may have one, two, eight more years of that, depending on what she decides. Noodle on that over the weekend. I love you all. We'll see you Monday. Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda and no fear.

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