Tragic Killing of College Student in Chicago By Illegal Migrant, and Dems Use Trauma in 2028 Prep, with Rich Lowry and MBD | Ep. 1280

29:50And, you know, this is just a truly awful story. And you are so right to drive home the faces, the real names behind the story. because otherwise it's just going to become, you know, a statistic, just, you know. No, we're not going to let it. Just dismissed as wrong place. Like I said, we were going to cover this anyway, but knowing Jessica's part of the MK Show community and came out to the tour with her friends, like, I refuse. Over my dead body will this story fall out of the headlines now. I will make sure. I will absolutely make sure. And if J.B. Pritzker has the balls to actually run for president without making this a massive mea culpa before, during, and potentially after, I'll be all over him.

30:44I mean, we'll call his office every day. I don't care. This is so, I'm sick and tired of this. I've talked to too many of these moms, you know, and I think about, you know, Jessica attending to our show in White Plains, where we talked about a lot, that was with Tucker Carlson. We talked about a lot, including illegal immigration. And she's sitting there and listening to this discussion and having no idea that her daughter and her family will be the victims of one of these people in just a few short months. It makes my stomach turn. And Rich, it's not just a problem with illegal immigration. As I point out, you know, why was this guy like lingering where young people fraternize on the lakefront in a mask with a loaded gun while he's an illegal with an arrest record.

31:33Like why? Right. Because I'm going to guess if they had adequate police presence there, they wouldn't have let somebody who was clearly an illegal who I guarantee you spoke very little English, if any, sit there with a mask and a loaded gun where our youth hang out. And all I can think about is that that interview that J.B. Pritzker gave to the local. We actually pulled it. It's the local NBC5 Chicago. Her name is Marianne Ahern. And she pressed him on the violence in Chicago. This is months ago, September of 2025. And listen to how cavalier Governor Pritzker was. Listen. You're going to hear people, especially this past weekend, 54 shot, seven dead.

32:12Yeah. They're going to say the city's not safe. Would you ask your friends to ride the L after midnight or after, you know, nine o 'clock at night even to come down to the city from O 'Hare? Look, big cities have crime. There's no doubt about it. But let's just pay attention to what President Trump is doing targeting Chicago. He's overlooking red states that have much higher crime rates. Just total deflection, Rich. Total deflection. No responsibility. Yeah. So this is a classic instance also of why a broken windows approach to policing makes sense. You police small acts of disorder to keep worse things from happening.

32:53So if you just basically don't have tolerance for strange guys hanging around with with loitering in masks in places they shouldn't be, this might not happen. I have a friend who was nearly attacked by someone in New York City. It was in a public park where a bunch of kids were out drinking as rich. How do we stop things like this from happening? Well, you stop the drinking, right? You stop the drinking and then people are out of control and something worse doesn't happen. And one reason, Megan, just going back to the foundational point here, that the left can't properly account for these incidents, can't tell the truth about them, can't express the appropriate outrage is because the wrong people are the victims and the perpetrators, right?

33:32So the illegal immigrants are a victim class. They are high up there in the hierarchy of victims for the left. So they can't process when an illegal immigrant commits a crime like this. It reminds me a little bit of the Muslim bomb throwers in New York City a couple of weeks ago where all the headlines and a lot of the commentary suggested that it was the anti-Mamdani protesters who must have been responsible for the bombing, right, instead of the Muslim guys shouting Allah Akbar. And same thing here, that this guy was a menace, never should have been in the country. He's an illegal immigrant.

34:07It was a horror and a disgrace. And they can't get there just because once they hear illegal immigrant, and of course, they won't even say that phrase, undocumented immigrant. It's it's let's let's not cast aspersions on on these people. Well, they won't they won't even go that far. First of all, I totally agree with everything you just said. And this this progressive Democrat, Maria Haddon, who we played the soundbite from wrong place, wrong time. I guarantee you the message would have been totally different had Sheridan been black. Now the hierarchies change again. Shot in the back. Now she's invested.

34:41Shot in the back. Right now. Yeah, exactly. Now, because now, like, I'm sure in this woman's mind, any black American is actually valued more than a white American. And when you're doing the progressive hierarchy, illegal immigrant brown skin from Venezuela definitely is over white girl from Westchester, but is not over black girl from Chicago. And I guarantee you this is the way Maria had in things. And so she would have expressed outrage. She would have had the right tone. She wouldn't have pulled any bullshit about wrong place, wrong time. She must have just startled him. Absolutely not. We looked at this woman's history.

35:16She it's right out of central casting. Of course, she's got like the resume that you would expect. She's a Democrat. She was the first elected city council in 2019, graduate of Ohio State from her campaign website. They tell us she's the first black queer woman elected to Chicago City Council, a servant leader with a background. Now, listen to this. This is a bunch of words that say nothing other than she's utterly unqualified. This is this is like progressive speak for nothingness. a servant leader with a background in community organizing and participatory democracy. Maria has become an independent progressive champion of the people in city council who advocates for not just her word, but communities across Chicago.

35:57Before becoming Alderwoman, Maria Haddon was the executive director of Our City, Our Voice. Again, more gobbledygook coming your way. A national nonprofit organization she founded to enable communities and local governments across the country to redesign democracy for more empowered and equitable participation. What? Here it goes again. Her expertise in public participation is grounded in grassroots organizing efforts for social change. She goes on. She's a member of local progress, a movement of local elected officials advancing a racial and economic justice agenda through all levels of government.

36:39It goes on and on like this for paragraphs. Rich, to your point of there's she she's a know nothing who has advanced only one thing throughout her entire career. And it appears to be some racial hierarchy, which she is now applying to Sheridan Gorman, a dead constituent who is 18 and deserves better. Yeah. So Antonin Scalia said the longer the introduction for someone at an event, the less consequential they are. And if you apply the same rule to a bio, this person is a total non-entity. It's all meaningless phrases and all suggesting, right? It's just another way of saying she has this perverse racialist view of looking at the world that you outlined, where the whites are the oppressors.

37:24If a white girl is victimized by a terrible crime, she was in the wrong place at the wrong time, kind of by definition. It is a twisted and perverse way to look at the world. Here is MBD, this same older woman, Maria Haddon, on January 21st. She's talking about Holocaust remembrance, Holocaust remembrance resolution. Listen here, top three. Holocaust Remembrance Day and the visits that I've gone and all the efforts for lifting up the stories of the survivors and of the people who didn't survive. I think are core to the American experience that I have as well, because as a black American, we are always looking to our past to center ourselves in the fights that we also still face.

38:18We have a president in this land that is demonizing people that don't look like him. We've seen that before. And right now we have ethnic cleansing, xenophobia, anti-blackness, anti-poverty happening and being carried out by our government. They are acting against us. They are stealing our people. They are kidnapping them and they are trampling our rights. And what's next? OK, where's that passion to blame government when we really need it? and the government happens to be Democrat. I mean, if you ever catch yourself saying that you're inspired by the Holocaust stories because they remind you of your own story, just stop talking.

39:08Just center yourself. Stop talking. Yes. I mean, and by the way, her background suggests another angle to the story, which is also underexplored. So I bet you, if you go and look at the background of the nonprofit organizations she's been a part of, I would bet you anything they are listed as a partner organization to another nonprofit that coordinates services for illegal aliens. In every region of this country, there are nonprofit organizations funded by leftist billionaires that connect churches, immigration lawyers, illegal landlords, illegal employers, other nonprofits. And basically what they do is they engage in kind of a legal conspiracy to evade the law.

40:08Each of them knows who is, you know, a mandatory reporter or who is obliged by the law to say this or that, or who is not obliged to say this or that. And so everyone is coordinated to protect illegal landlords from inspections, illegal employers from law enforcement or to guide people the right way, to coach illegal immigrants not to incriminate themselves if they're asked questions by law enforcement. And this is everywhere. And it involves, you know, there's a local group in my town that does this. I'm sure there's one in yours. And I would bet you anything that the same people donating to this Alderwoman's campaign donate to these organizations, work for them and profit from them.

41:00I mean, that's the other thing is that they're protecting a massive profit center for not just the illegal landlords and illegal employers, but also for the lawyers and other and, you know, the other nonprofits who justify themselves to their donors by saying, I helped 300 people this year basically evade law enforcement. And now, unfortunately for Maria, we are going to start digging. Now we're interested. So she's not going to be able to just coast along as Chicago alderwoman responsible to no one. We will be calling attention to whether she's connected with such groups and what else she has to say.

41:38She's not going to get away with leaving it at wrong place, wrong time. I don't care if we have to call her office every single day for the next year. That's what's going to happen. This woman will amend that statement to offer the proper empathy or she will never stop hearing from us. This is insane. We can't allow them to get away with this. And the media so far, Rich, has been predictably awful. NR had an article about it yesterday. So far, though, just FYI, the Washington Post, zero coverage, zero. The AP, zero. NPR, zero. The New York Times coverage from Sunday says suspect in Chicago students killing was in U.S.

42:20illegally. DHS says, OK, that's not bad. Then there's a sub headline. Sheridan Gorman, 18, was killed last week near Loyola University, Chicago. The Trump administration has sought to highlight crimes committed by undocumented people in its deportation campaign. It's Republicans pounce with different words. And then you guys pointed out in your editorial how the Chicago Tribune, they went with. OK, first of all, they failed to get this Medina's immigration status into their headline. And it's missing from the article about his arrest entirely more than 24 hours after that status had been revealed by DHS.

43:01So they just refer to him as Rogers Park man in Loyola slang Rogers Park man. Then finally, there was a follow up story that makes a reference to the fact that he was here illegally. And yet it still does not name him, doesn't name him. CBS, no better, reporting suspect due in court in Chicago shooting that killed Loyola University freshman Sheridan Gorman. Readers had to wait until the 10th paragraph to find out he was here illegally. This is like, so that's the New York Times with Republicans pounce. Chicago Tribune won't even tell you he's an illegal. CBS waits until the 10th paragraph. And and that's better than WAPO, AP and NPR, which ignored the story altogether.

43:47Yeah. So it's not just burying the lead. It's suppressing the leader, pretending the lead doesn't exist because it's of intense interest to people that this guy is an illegal immigrant, but they don't want to acknowledge it because they share largely the worldview that we've been talking about. and that subhead you read, I think, from the New York Times, that's the kind of coverage you're going to get in a couple of days, right? It's all going to be Republicans pounce kind of coverage. And going back to that older woman, you know, the viewpoint she has, and this really underlies so much of this, is basically the old line, first they came for whoever, and then they came, you know, first they came for the Jews, then they came for you.

44:29That's how they think of illegal immigrants. First, they come for illegal immigrants. And this is the cusp of a massive totalitarian fascist crackdown. So they view guys like this as the equivalent of Anne Frank. Right. They should be protected. Not only should they not be arrested, they should be affirmatively protected, hidden in someone's metaphorical attic because it's inherently wrong and fascistic to enforce our borders and immigration laws. It's so infuriating. I mean, it just feels like nothing's going to change. It really does. Like, he's going to get J.V. Pritzker. He will get away with this.

45:08You know, I mean, he will. He's probably running for president at any CNN debate because they don't give the Dem debates, the primary debates I'm talking about, to Fox News. They don't give them to the Megyn Kellys of the world. They don't give them the Rich Lowry's and MBD's. They give them to CNN and MSNBC. No one's going to ask him. No one is going to ask him this question because it's team blue that's in favor of the open border and not holding anybody to account. They'd much rather talk about Alex Preddy and Renee Good than Sheridan Gorman. It's just it's it's so infuriating on the subject of I guess we'll stay with Democrat presidential possibilities.

45:46Something bizarre with Gavin Newsom. I don't I don't totally understand what he's doing here, but maybe you guys can enlighten me. he decided to put out this picture of himself. It was a tweet as half of the face and Christian Bale, who played serial killer Patrick Bateman in American Psycho as the other half. And in his caption, he doesn't say, here I am with Christian Bale. He highlights the fact that he's splitting of the face with the serial killer, the fictional character, Patrick Bateman. He writes, for so many years, people have been saying that Patrick Bateman and I, who is not a real person, look alike.

46:27Now this pick has been going all over the place. What do you think? And clearly he just wants people to tell him he looks hot because, you know, Christian Bale is hot and way hotter than Gavin Newsom. And then, you know, many people were commenting like Tom Elliott, who responded, your psychiatrist misses you. Um, another posted a picture of Gavin Newsom next to Beavis from Beavis and Butthead saying this actually is a more spot on likeness. And I have to agree. Take a look at it, you guys. You tell me. I mean, it's spot on. But this is like some sort of a flex, I guess. I don't know, Rich. Is it a flex?

47:08What is it? I think he's he's just adopted the approach. Right. And there's something to be said for it. any attention is good attention on social media. And it's a little bit like, you know, Ted Cruz playing around with the idea that he's really the Zodiac killer, which is something thrown at him by critics. So then he's gone with it at times. So I think Newsom is a threat because he has a kind of charisma. I'm immune, totally immune to his charm. And I consider him so oleaginous. He's basically like a walking fire hazard at any moment. Nice word. Oily. But part of the name of the game in presidential politics is just being more likable and having more of that X factor than anyone else.

47:56And Newsom, at least I hate to say, is in that game. Whereas Prisker, I don't get it. No, you're right. He's trying to say, I've got main character energy. That's what he's trying to say there. I got all the kid terms down here. And here is who he would like you to think he reminds you of, MBD. Just a reminder, this is from the American Psycho trailer. I feel lethal on the verge of frenzy. I think my mask of sanity is about to slip.

48:31Do you have any witnesses or fingerprints? Actually, yes.

48:41you're a human i know my uh behavior can be erratic sometimes hey paul i just had to kill a lot of people i mean i'm just thinking mvd if they bring you on the newsome campaign you're not going to encourage this line of promo well you might be surprised um oh yeah i okay so it's very funny patrick bateman was written to satirize the reagan era 80s he's a wall streeter obsessed with his pinstripe suits his business you know the the tasteful thickness of business cards and uh you know scoring cocaine and then he fantasizes about killing his colleagues and prostitutes in his psychotic dreams. And, you know, the idea is that he has this mask of a friendly, young, successful, you know, young urban professional, but underneath is a kind of insatiable bloodlust and will for power.

49:53A politician would normally never dare compare themselves to this kind of person because it's so incriminating and and and because politicians themselves are thought of to be these masks hiding uh unbelievably perverse uh urges and ambitions and desires but in a way like i think rich is right and you're right there's main character energy here and he he's embracing it in a way that's like i'm funny i'm not afraid I'm willing to take a joke at my own expense, even a sick one. And yeah, I think it, I actually think it shows that he's - And on top of that, got himself a segment on the MK show. Yeah.

50:44All right, stand by. All right, Gavin, MBD is available for part-time consulting. Rich keeps him pretty busy over at NR, but you know, you might benefit from his perspective. I guarantee you would. Stand by. Much more with the guys after this. When you bring a child into the world, your perspective changes overnight. Suddenly, you're thinking years ahead about childcare, school, the future milestones. Well, part of loving your family also means thinking about their future, even in sometimes uncomfortable ways. Life insurance, yes, that's what we're talking about. It's not a fun topic, but it is one you need to think about.

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53:04Rich Lowry and MBD Michael Brendan Doherty from National Review are back with me now before we continue on the Democratic line because there's some news coming out about these would-be candidates. Mayor Brandon Johnson just spoke to the death of Sheridan Gorman. And of course, the only way he was able to address it was a reporter forced him to do it. He didn't do it spontaneously. A member of the press got in his face and basically insisted that he comment. And here's what he said. I'm going to continue to pray for those victims. Will you take this opportunity to apologize to Sheridan's parents for the policies that you promoted that directly caused her death?

53:46That suspect would not be in the city, would not be in the country, but for your policies. Will you take this opportunity to apologize to Sheridan's parents? Well, again, I believe that we're all grieving the loss of Sheridan and other folks who have lost their lives because of sentence violence. And let's just be very clear between the Safety Act and the Welcoming City Ordinance. The Welcoming City Ordinance was passed 40 years ago by the first black mayor in the history of Chicago. And the Safety Act was passed under the governor at that time who was a Republican, Governor Rauner. Thank you for your questions.

54:18So you will not apologize to Sheridan's parents. Hi, Mayor. Apologies. You have nothing to say to him. So he won't. He won't apologize to Sheridan's parents. He won't even acknowledge her. By name. He just said, we're all grieving Sheridan and others, too. We're all grieving and others, too. So he has to lump her death in with just random other acts of violence in Chicago. And that's how he describes it. Just senseless violence. Nothing about the guy being an illegal and only reference those two laws because the reporter who was a hero. We're trying to find out who that was. Raised the sanctuary city policies.

54:56And he's like, somebody else passed those as if this guy isn't fully behind them. This is just not it. He's a disgusting disappointment. Chicago, I don't know how you did this to yourselves with this mayor. Your governor's equally bad. Good luck with that. But the governor wants a promotion to president. I mean, he's definitely getting ready to run MBD, Governor Pritzker. And he's not the only one. And there was a very interesting piece in Axios that highlighted how three of the main expected Democratic presidential candidates are leaning into their, quote, childhood traumas as a way of introducing themselves to their constituents.

55:39constituents and I have to say totally on brand for Democrats. Like, yeah, you know what? If you're going to run as a Republican, this is definitely not the way, but as a Dem, yeah, they like their men, super effeminate and tearful and full of trauma. So here's how they're doing it. Governor Josh Shapiro of Pennsylvania, he has just released a book not long ago, and this is what, how Axios describes his pitch. He writes about that he had a happy childhood and at points an unhappy childhood home. It all comes down to the mother. Of course, he says his mother, Judy, poor Judy, could be unstable and that he and his siblings believed that if we were good, we could stop the chaos and the yelling.

56:27Shapiro notes that he wrestled with whether to discuss such private family matters. Right on, Josh. Those are the right instincts. This is not for public consumption. but ultimately did so because Democrats wanted him to. No, because others have lived through similar experiences and because his mother's behavior influenced his leadership style. You see, he says, it explains why I always sought to solve problems. I had to anticipate a problem or a pain point before there was a blow up. There was this exchange when CBS's Gayle King pressed him on that passage last month. My mom taught me to be a fighter.

57:06My mom taught me to be someone who looked out for others. And in many ways, and I hope she's able to see this one day. My mom is the hero in that book. And I would not be here but for what she taught me. OK. Remember, like, the Kennedys of the world, where they had more family drama than any family ever born in America? and they shoved it under the rug like good American people. I was going to say Presbyterians, which is what Doug is, but no, they're Catholic, like you and me, MVD. They also believed in shoving baggage away. That was the way to do it. There was lots to discuss and blame your problems on or to relate to people with.

57:47But there used to be a stiff upper lip, like vein running through American politics. And it's gone now, at least for the Democrat Party. Yeah, it is. And the contrast with the Republicans couldn't be more stark. I mean, you have Donald Trump, who ran as a successful billionaire real estate developer who recovered from multiple bankruptcies, you know, never let him get down. Before him, you had Mitt Romney, you know, another entirely successful businessman and a grandfather to like an entire tribe of young businessmen and successful people. And before him, war hero John McCain, you know, survivor of Hanoi Hilton and someone who'd never cried about it either.

58:37And now you get Democrats basically trying to run and say, I'm not privileged. I'm not in any way privileged. You guys like, you know, Governor Andy Beshear, who likes to take pot shots at J.D. Vance and talks about like, oh, you know, he's he's making fun of my people, the poor Appalachians. You know, it's like your people like you grew up in the governor's mansion. Like you couldn't have been a child of more privilege than he was. um you know it is this this weird thing of like um there's a kind of um bonding and heroism in mental dysfunction and um you know the struggle to cope with life as it is uh that is really yeah kind of embarrassing like talk to your life coach about it or like you know if you if you if If you no longer have the big giant Kennedy clan family, like, I don't know, just pour it into chat GPT.

59:44Like, don't bother the whole country about it. I actually have several girlfriends who do that, and they are convinced chat is, like, giving them really good advice. But I agree with what you said, and it was actually a very important point. It was a very important point about that this is actually not a healthy thing to do, like to spend all this time ruminating over your childhood trauma. You know, like you said, tell it to your therapist or whatever, but I don't even know if that's a great idea. I have a great therapist who doesn't allow this kind of thing at all. Like whenever you sort of give him a pity point, he redirects you to like forward-looking action.

1:00:21You know what I mean? Like choices you can make that assume personal responsibility. And I love him for that. But we don't do rumination. And this is what the Democrats want to do. They want to do it from public office. They want to do it while we're running for public office. They consider themselves the empathetic ones, Rich. This was a very widely circulated clip of Abigail Schreier, who wrote a great book about the dangers of rumination and went on Joe Rogan and discussed it. And listen to how she explained it here. You know, I never really considered that until your book, until I heard the title of your book and I read the synopsis of it.

1:00:55I never really considered it. I never considered that thinking about your problems all the time and talking about your problems all the time literally make the problems grow. That's right. I mean, it's the number one symptom of depression is what they call rumination, this pathological obsessing over your pain. Yeah. That's why stuff like exercise, that's one of the reasons, aside from chemical reasons, one of the reasons that doing anything, you know that running errands is good for your mental health? getting out of your house and accomplishing anything is good for you. But sitting around talking and thinking about your problems, that's a bad habit.

1:01:32And the best cognitive behavioral therapists and others, you know, the dialectical behavioral therapists, the ones who do really well with depression, the first thing they do is try to break that bad pattern. But a lot of therapists just indulge it. So, I mean, it's an interesting psychological discussion, right, Rich? But it's like it actually is relevant because this is what the Democrat Party writ large has been doing for years now. I mean, how long would it take you to find 20 TikTok videos of leftist women crying about their made up problems or their fake disorders or listing? And there'll be multiple.

1:02:08It's not going to be one thing. It's going to be like five disorders that they've got that they need you to know about, which make them special, which just leads on to the cycle. And then they have to elect leaders now who are starting to talk like them as opposed to pull up your bootstraps, you know, put your big girl pants on and get out there. Yeah, they've all driven and participated in this culture of therapy. And not only is it not good for you, I assume that Josh Shapiro's mother is still living. If you have to say, oh, I hope she'll one day see that what I said in my book wasn't insulting to her and that she's the actual hero.

1:02:41You shouldn't have said it. You shouldn't have said it. It's disgusting. Wait, wait, there's more on that. Wait, let me just add to that, Rich. Forgive me for the interruption. But on Mother's Day last year, he posted on X, Axios pointing out this was evident. He expressed gratitude to his mother-in-law, quote, who showed me unconditional love. What did he say about his mom? She raised me to care about the world around me. He's throwing shade at his mom on X. He damned her with faint praise. I lost my mother several years ago. We could have put a gun to my head, and I never would have said a disparaging word about her.

1:03:16So there's also, this is part of our culture where we think being revelatory and being authentic or quote-unquote authentic are healthier and more courageous. And I just don't think that's necessarily true. And this was really brought home to me. I went to Hyde Park, home of FDR, a while ago, and they showed us his study. And, of course, he was paralyzed after this awful bout with polio. And what he would do when visitors came in, he would – they'd roll him down a ramp. The ramp would collapse, and it would be normal stairs when the visitor came. And they'd roll him behind a desk, get him into a chair, and he'd play around with the stamp collection.

1:03:54And this was so painful for him. He could only do it for like 20 minutes or so. and the person would come in and have no idea there was anything wrong with him. He was such a bubbly personality that he would just talk the whole time and no one would think, oh, he's not walking around the room or he's not really moving. And after 20 minutes, the person would be ushered out. The steps would go up, the ramp would come. And that was artifice, but also extremely courageous. He'd give speeches standing with his arms almost giving out because he was so obsessed with not seeming like a victim. And a more recent example of this, NBD mentioned John McCain.

1:04:26I was covering him, I don't know, I think it was in 2000. And I was on the press bus with McCain, early stages of campaign where you're really intimate with the candidate. And all the reporters have left and I left my notebook or something or tape recorder. So I went back after all the reporters were supposed to have left this van. And he was sitting in the back with an aide combing his hair. And I asked someone, why is an aide combing his hair? He can't lift his arms above here. But he didn't want people to know. He didn't want to advertise that because he was not a victim. Right. So that's the way in which I think this whole approach to life and how people deal with hard hardships is misbegotten.

1:05:04This that reminded me of something that happened in the Fox News. Forgive me because I'm not going to remember the guy's name right now, but we were covering Bridgegate with Chris Christie. Remember, where they intentionally shut down the traffic over the bridge and everybody was very angry at Chris Christie and it kind of ruined his presidential chances. It was a big scandal years ago. Anyway, we were having a Democrat politician from New Jersey on to talk about the scandal. And we were broadcasting from a Fox News tent in Times Square, not from the Fox News studio, because we were hosting the Super Bowl that year at Fox.

1:05:33And it was like a promo. There's footballs everywhere. I was like, get excited. So whatever. We were a little off site in a weird venue. Well, he comes over, he sits, he goes like up the stairs, he comes, he sits next to me. And during the segment, I'm interviewing him and he's not looking at me. He keeps looking into the camera, which you should look in the camera when you're remote like you guys are, you know, that it's weird if you're not looking at the camera. But if we're sitting together on the set, you should look at the anchor because that's what the audience understands conversation will look like.

1:06:01Well, he wasn't looking at me, he kept looking at the camera. And then like when we, when we had a moment like where it was, the mics were down and somebody else is talking. I'm like, it's okay. You can look at me just to try to make the shot look better. Long story short, I later found out he would have looked at me, but he was blind. He was blind. He's legally blind. He actually had had like, normally he would be using a cane. Someone unbeknownst to me, cause I wasn't watching helped him get on the set very subtly. and I felt so bad that I had been like telling him where to look. No one told me he was blind.

1:06:39I called him right after the segment. I'm like, please forgive me. I had no idea. And he was so sweet. He was like, I didn't want you to know. He was like, I don't want anybody to know. I like to sort of just deal with it and project as well as I can that I'm a seeing, sighted person. And then of course, because I have this thing of sticking my foot in my mouth all the time, I'm like, did you see that article in the New York Times this morning? I just kept saying the word see, you know, like you triple down, like stop. Somebody stop me anyway. Yeah. You know who's one of the great contemporary American figures in terms of exemplifying this anti-victimhood mentality we're talking about is Thomas Sowell, right?

1:07:19You read about Thomas Sowell and people discriminated against him, facing racism. And his attitude was always, F you. It's on you, not on me. Yes. And if we had more of that across the country, it'd be a very good thing. And speaking of incredible black scholars and leaders from whom we can learn a lot, Eli Steele and Shelby Steele and his son Eli, the same. Eli's, he can't hear. And he came on the program once. It was when we were just an audio podcast. Actually reduced me to tears when I found out like he wanted to do it. We didn't have video, you guys. So you couldn't see me. He couldn't read my lips.

1:07:55So he had to put on like this device and he was using his cochlear implants and he was struggling to hear what I had to say, all of which I did not know. You could tell, obviously I knew he had a hearing problem because the way he speaks is a little off. But he then confessed at the end of the interview, you know, thank you so much for having us. I really appreciate you letting us promote their documentary, which everybody should go see called What Killed Michael Brown. It had been banned from Amazon And it's a great, great look at Ferguson, Missouri and race relations in America and what really got us here.

1:08:29And I said, I'm going to make a confession to you. I almost I almost canceled because I wasn't sure if the audience is going to be able to understand you. And he said, I can I want to tell you that everyone else did. Everyone canceled us as soon as they found out about my problem. And then we had this long discussion about how his dad, Shelby, another civil rights leader, but but more heterodox than his thought, like Thomas. Russell refused to do sign language. He insisted that Eli grow up learning to read lips. He wanted him to be able to function in a hearing world. It's just such a different mindset than what we're seeing now.

1:09:08And not to pile on to Josh Shapiro, because back to our friend Gavin Newsom, MBD's candidate in 2028, Rich. Newsom Bateman in 2028.

1:09:21He's doing it too. And so is J.B. Pritzker, like literally one of the richest men in the world wants us to remember his childhood trauma. And I'll give you the examples here. Here's Gavin Newsom. He also has a new book, Young Man in a Hurry. In it, he recalls having dyslexia and how His mother, Tessa, tried to console him over his struggles in school, Rich. She said something he recalls as no crueler words could be spoken. What did she say to little Gavin? It's okay to be average, Gavin. No crueler words. Try to spend a day in the Kelly household, Gavin Newsom. My parents were like, took one look at me and they're like, she's going to be with us for a long time.

1:10:09And then they told me I wasn't special, all the things. It wasn't cruel. It was actually real and gave me hashtag goals. And he says after his parents' divorce, his father, Bill, was often absent, Rich, leaving Gavin, looking to give his father reasons to be a bigger part of his life. So there he was, poor, average Gavin with a cruel mom and an absentee dad, leaving him just looking to find someone, a father figure to be a bigger part of his life. Well, what do we know was actually true in the case of Gavin Newsom? This is how he found himself. This was his solution. And it was actually a really, really great one.

1:10:50Take a look at the magazine article that documented exactly how Gavin Newsom dealt with his very cruel mom and his absentee dad. Here it is for listening audience. He appears in a magazine and it's titled Children of the Rich. And he is there with all the Gettys, all the Getty children, Rich, like another American iconic family like the Astors, like the Vanderbilts. And he wants us to feel sorry for him because his mom said one thing trying to make him feel better about his dyslexia that he thought was insensitive. And his dad was somewhat absentee after the divorce. Boo fucking hoo. Yeah, this guy is never going to convince anyone.

1:11:27He suffered any hardship. By the way, the harshest thing I've heard recently that any parent has ever said to a kid, we're all inspired by the U.S. hockey victory in the Olympics. Prior victory in 1980, the coach of that team, Herb Brooks, was cut from the 1960 U.S. Olympic team. That team goes on to win the gold medal while he's sitting there watching at home with his dad. He was the last guy cut from the team. And after they win the gold medal, his dad turns to him and said, son, I think they cut the right guy. Oh, that's terrible. I hired him to be very tough on that team in 1980 and whip it into shape and win a gold medal another way.

1:12:03But I'm not I'm not shedding any cheers for Gavin Newsom. And, you know, if he wins the presidency, it's because the entire country looks at the example of California and says it's OK to be below average, Governor Newsom. Yeah, right. The mother was actually sugarcoating it. But MBD, J.B. Pritzker has not written a memoir, but he has spoken openly about losing his dad, Donald, to a heart attack when he was seven. That's sad. And his mother to alcoholism when he was 17. All right. Those are legit tragedies. He recalled his mother in an interview with The New York Times, Sue, trying to explain her alcoholism when he was eight or nine, promising to overcome it.

1:12:44But unfortunately, he said, she was never able to. It overcame her. and took her life. That is very sad, but it's going to be a very tough sell because the reason J.B. Pritzker is telling this story, MBD, is because he literally has had one of the most privileged lives a human being can have on earth in the modern day world. He is the heir to the Hyatt Hotel fortune. He is rolling in dough. I mean, it's everywhere around him and it always has been. And so now he's had, he has to find another way to make us feel sorry for him because his dad died when he was young and his mom was an alcoholic, which I'm sorry, but that actually is a very common story in America.

1:13:33And I, I just, I don't see it happening where people are going to say, notwithstanding the billions, he's just like me. Yeah, it's not going to make him relatable in any way. And it is sad in a way. I mean, I think that, you know, it's not just a reflection of, you know, individual bad character, but I think it shows a society that one is careless with people's reputations, right? That like people are careless with their parents' reputations. And it's also one, I think it reflects a loss of faith in, you know, Providence that, you know, the kind of bedrock belief that nothing is going to happen to you in this life without the loving permission of God behind it.

1:14:24And if you believe that, then all of the tragedies in your life are in some way ordered to your final good and salvation. And that's why people write their memoirs at the end of life usually, because that's when it becomes clearer that these obstacles, tensions, or tragedies actually brought about something great or good or necessary in their life over the long run. but instead we get this wallowing in the pain which again does no one good and I think it's literally a drag like literally an emotional drag but also like a spiritual drag down from a noble tradition of honoring our parents and having faith in that our life has a meaning and that these tragedies give it that meaning to something else, like more nihilistic, more despairing.

1:15:26And, you know, like the only way we can relate to each other is through wallowing in meaninglessness and in upset and terror at the universe. It's gross. All right. I have a follow up for you. I have a follow up for you, though. Is there any chance that this is playing the long game because they're calculating their likely opponent is either someone named J.D. Vance or someone named Marco Rubio, both of whom have amazing origin stories that are legit and pretty well known at this point? yeah i think that is a huge part of it and you know vance and rubio both now have kind of their stories are kind of merging in some ways like um you know the story is like i come from a working class background i come from people that struggled and saw struggle and yeah there might have been a year where vance lived in a house that was in total income got to six figures a lot of working class families live like that if you're an oil you know if you're a rigger if you're in some you know uh kind of dangerous factory work but of course you know you're also then dependent uh people that in your whole community depend on you to help them out when they have less and those are powerful stories um you know the barman's son in the case of Marco Rubio or, you know, again, in the case of Vance, the son of an alcoholic, another absent father, but someone who rose up and like used the existing institutions of American meritocracy to rise above.

1:17:11That's much more powerful than anything Andy Beshear is going to tell you. It's like, I grew up in the governor's mansion and then I graduated into it. Like, woohoo. I mean, a lot of stories are homecomings, but it's usually not that literal. And, you know, and it's the same thing with Pritzker, which is like, I was born to basically the progressive aristocracy. And now my family gives money to the progressive aristocracy across the rest of the country. I mean, it's, again, not that inspiring. One thing that was was unusual about the rise of Donald Trump, among many others, there's just zero this zero.

1:17:55His father was a very tough guy. I'm sure his father said, like, really harsh things about him a lot. Right. His brother goes goes the wrong way, becomes an alcoholic. Trump's at military school for a while. But zero of this. And his his story was like, I know how to fire people. And I know I know how corrupt politicians are because I've worked the system so I can fix it. Right. So it was none of this attempt to create. Trump's attitude is exactly the opposite, Rich. You're right. Like Trump puts a positive spin on everything. Right. Like that's why in some instances you're like, am I getting the straight skinny here?

1:18:32Because I felt like that was a defeat, but he's selling it like a victory. And I don't know what to believe, but it's to his credit. I mean, it's helped him and it's helped the United States way more than it's hurt. And it's one of his, I think, best qualities. I've told the story before, but I gave him an interview. We fought for that one year when I was at Fox. And then we did a special that aired on Fox broadcast channel. Not that FNC, but the broadcast channel. And it didn't do that well because it was across from a series finale of some major show that everybody loved. It did fine, but it wasn't gangbusters.

1:19:06I talked to him the next day. You would have thought it was the Super Bowl ratings. The way he was like, oh, the numbers are huge. I'm like, this is so funny. He knows exactly what the numbers are. He knows that they weren't huge and he knows we lost, I think, to CBS because of this series finale. But it's just Trump. You know, he just he's going to say it was amazing and it was awesome and it was wonderful, even if it wasn't, which is exactly the opposite of the instinct of all these Democrats. They were like, boo hoo. My mom was mean in that one comment that one time. Trump could be out there like they shot me in the head.

1:19:39They tried to put me like he does complain here and there, but just usually with a sense of humor and a way of like trying to expose what the other side is, as opposed to make you feel sorry for him. All right. I want to keep going because I'm interested in the J.D. Marco thing in light of what we're seeing right now in the Republican Party. And you guys are great people to ask about this, because I would say just knowing you both, Rich, you're probably more on the like hawkish side of the party and MBD is probably more on the non-interventionalist side. And right now the party's having, I don't know if you call it a civil war, a fight.

1:20:14Republicans love to fight with each other. I mean, like, it's the thing, like, on the right, they never march along to party orders, unfortunately. They're not like the Democrats. They're like, individualism, we have disagreements, let's hash them out, let's fight. And then they lose elections badly, and they're like, oh, shit, we need to get along for a little while. So where do you see the current battle going? How about that one, MBD? Because right now the conventional wisdom is that the more neo-cani, more hawkish wing of the party that which had felt out of favor with Trump. You know, they had thought Trump was more of a non-interventionalist with some hawkish instincts.

1:20:52We had Soleimani, we had al-Baghdadi. And then, of course, prior to now, we had the Iranian nuclear plant strike in Venezuela. I don't think even they were anticipating full scale war with Iran. So they're feeling that like their star is ascendant, their worldview is ascendant and the non-interventionalists are on the, you know, descend or irrelevant entirely. But they make up some 20 percent of the party, that latter group at least, and young people in particular lean towards non-interventionalists. So where does that leave the Republican Party now, its future and its and the likely battle to come on the presidential nomination front?

1:21:33I think so much depends on how successful this operation in Iran really is. There's just you've seen the polls that while Republicans are broadly supportive of the president and his mission in Iran, they're worried. They're worried about gas prices. They're worried about the war dragging on. And they're worried about mission break. And that's why the president is out there kind of every few days saying, like, it's almost over or it's four or five weeks or we basically finished the job already, but it's not finished yet. You know, he's obviously conscious of this dynamic. And, you know, the latest poll I saw today was only 66 percent of Republicans really back the president on the war in Iran.

1:22:28That's actually a very low number for Donald Trump or for any Republican president in a major initiative. You know, there's always a tendency when a pollster calls you up and asks, you know, do you support this or that? But, you know, I think most people go into those conversations thinking, I don't want to accidentally help the side that I'm against. So even if I have a problem, I'm going to kind of hedge towards the president and my party. But, you know, you're seeing six-four in a party, very little in the Democratic Party, very little among independents. you know if you are ben shapiro or mark levin or some of these commentators who are saying like i want to take ownership of this and we're the ones who really own and define trump presidency now and the america lasters are this tiny rump that doesn't matter anymore i think you're basically saying like we're in charge of a minority a party that's going to swiftly be in the minority in November.

1:23:32And I'm not sure how that's going to work out for them. I mean, if you see the poll numbers for the president and his party sinking as low as they have been among the general public, I don't think that's the time to take the wheel and say, I'm the driver now. I'm the one steering this car because it's about to crash. How do you see it, Rich? So I think there are a couple unknowns, right? The big one, which MBD led with there is how does this end? Is it perceived as a success or is it perceived as a failure? That will make a huge difference. And then there's kind of the internal game. So J.D. Vance obviously, at the very least, is not enamored of this operation, whether he opposes it or not.

1:24:19We don't know. But does Trump kind of appreciate him keeping his head down and basically being a team player? So that's a benefit to the ultimate competition for a Trump endorsement. Or, you know, if it goes wrong and J.D. has kind of proved right, does Trump resent that? You know, it's very difficult to to know or game out exactly how that interaction is going to go down. And then with with Rubio, I had a connected person who was making a very good case that I hadn't thought of quite this way recently, just saying he's not going to run. This is a guy who is at the pinnacle of his power. He's at the hand of a very powerful president.

1:25:02Pursuing priority is very important for him. Iran's one, but Venezuela is much more of one. And Cuba's at the top of the list and has an ability to be a legacy shaping secretary of state. So really, in about eight months from now or nine months after the midterms, is he going to say, forget it, I'm quitting all that, I'm giving all that up, and I'm going to the pizza restaurants in Iowa and living there for the next year and a half? And what might be an underdog campaign against a J.D. Vance who is a favorite? Why would he do that? So I think a lot of people are thinking Vance Rubio. I'm not sure whether Rubio is going to be in that equation unless, you know, there's some inside track we're not aware of and Trump's really bonded with him.

1:25:48And there's some chance that he could give his nod formally or informally to Rubio. That would be a game changer. But otherwise, if you're Rubio, you're sitting very pretty right now and you're still young and have a lot of time. Rich, you tell me how the more hawkish wing of the party would feel about J.D. Vance. I think there'd be a lot of disquiet over J.D. Vance. But at the end of the day, you know, if someone's the party's nominee, the alternative is going to be worse. Right. If he's running against AOC or Gavin, I mean, they'll probably be less hawkish than than he is even. So people there's very little alternative to getting on on board.

1:26:32But there's certainly be disquiet because I think in some respects, J.D., I don't know whether he actually thinks this or whatever, express it. But I imagine that he might think of himself a little bit as Trump is the John the Baptist ideologically with this more populist, non-interventionist approach that Trump's kind of on on board with, but not always, as we've seen with with Iran. And J.D. is the pure version. Right. He's the ideological savior. He's working the logic all the way to its its endpoint. And there are going to be a lot of people who weren't weren't huge on Donald Trump to begin with, but have have warmed up to him, especially after this, who are going to not like the idea of of a J.D.

1:27:15Vance nomination. Oh, yeah. I mean, that's one of the things I saw you write this week, MBD, was like, it's kind of funny to watch those same people, like the Ben Shapiros of the world, who was literally a never-Trumper, now try to claim ownership of him. Like, yes, this is, you know, I'm MAGA. This is my movement. And looking at sort of the more non-interventionalist wing of the party, which was something Trump had repeatedly said he would be pursuing. No war in the Middle East, no wars, no new wars, no war with Iran, he even said, as like theirs and casting that wing as though they didn't know Trump at all and they've never been really pro-Trump or MAGA.

1:27:53Yeah, I mean, you can go through YouTube clips. The Trump Vance ticket promoted itself as the peace ticket, etc. And that didn't mean completely no military action whatsoever, but he was absolutely a critic of long, drawn-out wars in the Middle East that didn't yield anything. and you know you can find a clip from the 1980s where he talks about what we could do to iran but that doesn't eliminate what he said at every campaign stop and rally um and and the fact is like the reason that mark levin in 2015 said he would never vote for trump the reason ben shapiro said he'd never vote for trump is because trump was invoking this other republican tradition which you know, has roots in the party, you know, going back to before World War II, of not wanting to plow under every other boy from the heartland in order to fulfill some kind of dream of global dominance.

1:29:02And, you know, that part of the party is still with us, and it's never really gone away. and it's kind of risen up after people have looked at the you know what what does it cost us to try to manage the middle east into our um you know into behaving the way we want it to um you know that there's a paradox to power right that you know like uh and there's a paradox to security you know like one man might think like the only way i can be truly secure is if i install cameras in all my neighbors houses to make sure I know exactly what they're doing and I'm safe all the time. At the same time, that costs you your mental peace, it costs you money, and it makes you paranoid about every single thing that's happening in your neighborhood.

1:29:56Similarly, with the United States, suddenly, you know, we have to worry about what's in the textbooks in Karbala in Iraq, in Iraq, if you're if you're trying to manage the entire globe. And, you know, a lot of Republicans, you know, don't even trust the DMV to to take care of their driver's license, let alone the Department of Defense to, you know, turn Mesopotamia into a Madisonian paradise. Oh, God. you know so like well i don't i mean we've got that's one take let's be honest america can still be a dangerous place and you cannot afford to wait for help when you need it sure you could use a firearm but in today's america defending yourself with deadly force could have legal consequences according to fbi data 99.9 of all altercations do not require lethal force and And that's exactly why many are turning to Burna.

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1:34:15Real Clear Politics and many more. It's bold, no BS news. Only on the Megyn Kelly channel, Sirius XM 111 and on the Sirius XM app.

1:34:28I think it's important to check in with a real salt of the earth, American citizens, and see what they're thinking. And thanks to a correspondent for Jesse Waters, who used to do this kind of thing himself, we can take you right to the heart of the American youth vote. See what they're thinking about this war here in Sop 14. What college you guys go to? UTC. FAU. Sacred Heart University. Ohio State. Spring break, 2026. What is the game plan? Drinking. Blackout with my rockout. What issue facing America is the most important to you? What bikini I'm going to wear next? Obesity is terrible. Ice. Not personally.

1:35:07I'm legal. Getting a tan on the beach. What have you heard that Donald Trump has been doing recently? Gulf of America. That's the last thing I kept up with. We're going to war with Iraq. That's been crazy. What are you doing, Columbia? You got Maduro out? You must be happy. I'm very happy. The Ayatollah's dead. What? Who? What? What is that? Who the f*** is Ayatollah? I have never heard that word in my life. Lewis, what's Ayatollah? I haven't heard. I found out about Chuck Norris yesterday. That was more devastating to me. If you were in charge, how would you take on Iran? Yeah, all my girls and we would all start putting belts on them We get a bunch of girls a bikini who make them run across the battlefield all the guys are distracted We all run it up look at him in his eyes.

1:35:47I guess Flirt with him I'd blow him up. I don't know enough about it, but I would probably wipe it out Drop a bomb baby bomb the out of them. Where is Venezuela? I don't know. I'm drunk. I really I don't know Venezuela is not in Spain No rich in all the strategy meetings you've had it in our and coming up with your editorials i bet you i bet no one not not mbd not charles cook ever said we should lead with blackout with my rack out i thought the same thing you alluded to at the beginning of that clip this guy is the next next jesse waters right just just give him 10 or 15 years the way uh he works for Jesse.

1:36:31Yeah, the way it happened with Jesse when he was working for O 'Reilly. Can I come back to what MBD was saying? I don't think it's just a statement in 1980 from Trump. I mean, he's made hawkish sounds about Iran across the decades, and I think he genuinely hates this regime. And I also think temperamentally, we've seen it especially in the second term here, this is a guy who loves exercising power and loves doing it at maximum discretion. And if you're commander-in-chief, of the United States, what does that lead you to? You're going to lean on the U.S. military. And I think just the operation against Maduro and the lightning success of that led him to believe this could be similarly successful.

1:37:15Now, this is a much tougher nut to crack, and we'll see how it turns out. But I think this is a Trump thing. He wasn't talked into it by anyone. He wasn't tricked. I don't agree with that. He was talked into it by Israel. That's not true. It's not anti-Israel or to say Trump is a weakling to say that he was talked into it by Netanyahu and Netanyahu. He's the commander in chief of the United States. He's the decider. And if he didn't want to do this, he just would have said no. So it's not. But that's not the same thing, Rich. To be talked into it is not the same thing as saying someone else made the decision for him, which removes agency from Trump.

1:37:55But there are people trying to talk him out of it and people trying to talk him into it. And he makes the ultimate. Who was trying to talk him out of it? One person. Lots of people on the outside. Now, it's true that the planning process was truncated. All the kind of downsides of this are very Trump. If you want to look at it in a negative way, impulsive decision, over optimistic about it. We're talking about his optimism earlier. There are upsides to that. No planning process, a very truncated planning process and kind of erratic goals. That's all Trump. This this has all the hallmarks of a Trump operations, which is why the buck stops with him on this.

1:38:34You know, no one else is responsible. He's responsible. He's the one decided to to launch it. And it's understandable why he did it. And again, it's very characteristic. So I just don't I don't get the effort to kind of get the blame or the credit or whatever you want to consider off on someone else. This guy, this is a guy who's - I have no interest in doing that, but I also find it weird that some people don't want to acknowledge that Israel did push for this war very, very hard. You don't have to take Megyn Kelly's word for it. Netanyahu is all over the papers and on video saying exactly that.

1:39:08Like, we know that's true. I don't know why you tried to make it so serious, Rich Lowry. Back to the video. SOT 15 MBD, I got something for you.

1:39:21Okay. Someone in a bikini twerking on spring break. More twerking. It looks like an X-rated video. Bad twerking. MBD, it's spring break in America. And down in Florida, in some towns, they are cracking down on the twerking as illegal, as now indecent exposure and inappropriate. And I want to know whether you are pro or against. because I think those girls may not know anything about the Ayatollah, but they definitely know how to eat properly and buy a good bikini. Yeah, I mean, listen, the glory of American life is that Americans pursue happiness however they want to, and they're not being instrumentalized into some global mission where they have to care about the Ayatollah.

1:40:20if they don't want to. As for criminalizing and twerking, I just think that's beyond the government's competence at this point. I don't think it should be prioritized. I think, you know, there's other battles to fight first, you know. Don't you think that we should have Charles assigned this as an NR piece? I mean, Rich, Who does the assignments over there? Is it you? Charles lives in Florida. He has to deal with the twerking firsthand, and he hates government interference like MBD is explaining right now. So what do you think, MBD? You should nudge him. I will nudge him. I mean, right now we're trying to deal with the twerking privately.

1:41:06My daughter is in a dance company, and the tweenie girls do this just to get a rise out of their moms and dads. and you know so so we're trying to handle this uh as parents first you know authority begins in the home and uh that's where it should stay and uh it's a good reminder it's a good reminder that i'll never let my daughter go on spring break until she is uh 45 or something like that yes honestly saying or without you there daddy's coming you can do it as a family affair all Last but not least, and not unrelated, I wanted to ask you guys your take on the founder of OnlyFans, Leonid Radvinsky, 43 years old, died of cancer.

1:41:56And it was one of the richest guys in the world, worth like$8 billion, thanks to OnlyFans, which is porn. It's a porn website. I mean, not everything on there is total porn. Like some women just show their feet and people pay lots of money to see them. but there's a ton of porn on OnlyFans. I've never actually been on OnlyFans, full disclosure, but I see enough in the news to know what's on there, including that Bonnie Blue who had sex with, I don't, I can't keep track of them, like a thousand men in a day. And then the other girl who, what's the other gal's name? Who's like her competition, Lily Phillips.

1:42:31Thank you, my team. Who now says, and she did another, like a thousand men in a day. Now she says she's converted to Christianity. Christianity she had like a or she's like renewed her Christianity by having an adult baptism okay but what do you make of it rich this guy's legacy billionaire very successful got some of these girls away from triple x porn sets where they have to do this you know on a set but yeah leaves you feeling pretty skeezy small d democratization of of porn so you tend to hear in the press of the stories, you know, someone who's a junior in college and now they're making, you know,$500 ,000 a month and they've bought a new Jaguar.

1:43:13But you don't hear all the stories of the girls who have let themselves be exploited and basically gotten nothing from it. So this is a terrible trend. It seems to be sort of an unstoppable tide in American life. But it used to be, you know, these were magazines hidden in the back of some shop and you'd have to go purchase them and feel shame when you did it. And now it's just accessible to everyone, the girls who are doing the porn and the consumers. So it's a very bad trend, but apparently an unstoppable one. I think it's a bad trend too. I just feel like whenever I see those girls, like in an interview, I want to do an intervention.

1:43:53I want to help them like get an education and do something more wholesome with their life and with their body and help relieve them of the massive shame that must be driving them to seek this sort of affirmation over and over again. That's my take on it. Guys, a pleasure as always. MBD, great to see you, Richie, as well. Go become an NR Plus subscriber today. We're back tomorrow and we'll see all of you then. Thanks, guys. Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

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