Tucker, Shapiro, Don Jr., Erika Kirk and More - Megyn Kelly Looks Back at Memorable Tour Moments

24:42Nightmare. I'm like, I'm stumbling over their hairs everywhere. I'm hungover as hell. And I'm like, we're going to get to the office. And on a Saturday, sometimes Sunday. He's just built this way. He's just always been that way. I mean, perhaps the most, and I've sort of been impressed with his stamina that way for most of my life. But I mean, even, you know, this last election, the days prior to the election, I mean, I saw him go two all-nighters in a row. Yeah. Like it was all day, seven events a night. I'd speak at some of them, but when he's there, he's speaking for an hour. Yes. I mean, it's slated for an hour, and sometimes it ends up being two and a half.

25:21The weave. But you've got six of them. And we're in Michigan, and it's 2.30 in the morning, and that's 3.30. By the time you dealt with the time difference or wherever we end up, I think it was Michigan was the last one, and he's still going strong. Six of these speeches, five of these speeches for two hours apiece. It's 2.30 in the morning. He's going strong. He gets on the plane, and he starts playing music, and I'm like, I just want to go to bed. I literally, for the love of Christ, please just turn off the music. And he's blasting Elton John. It's wild. And then we get there, and it's election day.

25:57And I get home. It's 6 a.m. I try to get like an hour or two. I get home. I take a shower. I'm about to go to bed. And I turn on the TV quickly, and he's doing interviews. I'm like, no, I felt like I'm not living up to the stage. I literally had two hours until my next thing. I'm like, I just can't go to bed because I can't let this guy outdo me. Let's talk about it. Let's talk about why Nick Fuentes. I interviewed Fuentes. Well, I should just give the publicly available information on this, which is that I was in an extremely personal and bitter war with Fuentes. like three weeks ago. It mostly wasn't public, but Fontes was attacking my father, a subject I have literally no sense of humor.

26:48My father passed in March and was really kind of the patriarch, not kind of, he was the patriarch in our family and a hero to every person in our family. Some of what Fontes was saying about my dad was true, okay, which made it worse. but I was just so offended by that I couldn't deal with it and my son and my wife so you know I was really mad at Fuentes and then I did an interview and just out of the way I was so mad it popped out and I attacked Nick Fuentes in this interview this was last month I think ish and then I got all these calls from people saying do you know anything about Nick Fuentes other than he's attacking my dad, my wife and my son and it was like actually Nick Fuentes is the single most influential commentator among young men.

27:37Like, period. He's got 5 million subscribers on Rumble. It's bonkers. And I didn't know any of them. I'm 56, so I'll just, like, state the obvious, you know? He's not our demo. My oldest child is 31, like, much older than Nick Fuentes. So, I kind of missed a lot of this stuff. I pride myself on not missing things. I totally missed that. Really? And then it turns out that, you know, he has no advertisers. They've been trying to cancel them since freshman year in college. Ben Shapiro actually tried to shut them down freshman year in college, and it didn't work. In fact, it had the opposite effect.

28:07So I was like, hmm. And so I talked to a million people I know, like, maybe I should interview Nick Fuentes to hear what is this, actually. And so I decided to do it, and I thought it would be controversial. I didn't think it would become what it's become. I'm not going to offer any defense other than, And, you know, it's kind of interesting. I've literally, I mean, I've interviewed anybody. I've been doing this for 34 years. So I've interviewed everybody. Most of them bad people, to be honest. I interviewed Liberian militia leaders during the Liberian Civil War. All cannibals, every single one of them.

28:42It tasted human flesh. And first of all, I kind of like them. I'm just being honest because I like people. Don't agree with cannibalism. Pretty opposed. For the record. But I'm just that way. I just like people. And the closer, if you can like smell someone and talk to them, I'm like, it's hard to not see the human in the person, even if he's a cannibal. Did the Liberian cannibal smell good? Kind of rank, to be honest. Actually, during the interview, this is... Smells like chicken. I was in Africa to cover the Civil War, and I'm interviewing this guy, and he was like, you know, commander butt naked, or it wasn't actually commander butt naked who was a famous militia leader during that war who fought, needless to say, butt naked.

29:17But I'm interviewing this guy, and his cell phone goes off, and it's the Woody Woodpecker theme song. Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. And I was like, oh my gosh, you're human. It was like hilarious. Anyway, the point is, none of those were controversial. Like I interview people who are hated, and in some cases like demonstrably evil, and I ask them, why did you do that? And what, you know, what's your account of yourself? Like, tell me who you are. What do you believe? And I wanted to, that was the first thing I wanted to achieve with Nick Funtz. I was like, what is this? Tell me. You know, I'll give you two hours.

29:48I have only watched your clips for like a minute long. I want to hear, like, why don't you describe what you think? because I think that's the small role that I play, which is to get documentary evidence of people describing what they think. I did it with Putin. I'll probably do it with every other bad person in the world because I'm interested. Not because I agree with him, because I think it's interesting. And second, I wanted to say something very specific to Nick Fuentes, and it's this, and I said it, which is I think it's totally legitimate to criticize any foreign country from Belgium to Congo to Israel because they're foreign countries.

30:19Yes. And I'll never give up that. right. In fact, it's an obligation, I would say, and to be reasonable about it. But what's in America's interest? Totally legitimate. It is totally illegitimate and very specifically unchristian to attack people for their DNA. Like, I hate this group. You wanted him to hear that. He has, we all have to hear that. And because that is the basis of Western civilization. Western civilization is derived from the New Testament. It is based on Christian ethics. And the core difference between the West and the rest of the world, not just Israel, but every other country, is that we don't believe in collective punishment because we don't believe in blood guilt.

31:02We don't believe that you were born guilty, and we also don't believe that you were born virtuous. We believe that God created every person as an individual. God did not create communities. Every woman gives birth to a human being. and every person has the spark of God inside him. I mean, that's what we believe as Christians. And every person has the possibility of redemption. And in my religion, the great human hero in Christianity, Jesus is God in human form. But the great human hero in the New Testament is its primary author, Paul, who was Saul of Tarsus, who was the primary persecutor as a Pharisee of Christians.

31:36He was murdering Christians. He was Jewish, by the way, like everyone in the New Testament, but he was on the way to go murder more Christians that he met Jesus, and then he became the great evangelist of our faith and wrote the majority of the New Testament. So, like, he's my personal hero, but he's also living testament to the truth about people, which is each one of us was born as an individual, and we will face God alone at the end to account for our lives. And along the way, there is always the possibility that no matter what your genes are, what you look like, or what your religion is, that you can change and that you can be saved by Jesus.

32:11That is Christianity in three sentences. And so that is reflected, even for people who aren't Christians, that is reflected in an ethical framework and a legal code that is the only truly unusual and great thing about the West, which is we do not punish the innocent. We only punish the guilty. We do not, you commit a crime, we don't throw your kids in jail. We don't execute your cousins. We don't commit genocide against your whole tribe. We punish you because you did it. We treat each person as an individual. That is Western civilization. That's a Christian understanding. It does not derive from any other religion.

32:52Christianity alone, alone, unique, makes that claim. And that's the base of our justice system, which, again, even non-Christians appreciate that's why they move here, because it's self-evidently more humane. That's where the idea of human rights come from. They're not collective rights. It's not that your tribe has rights and his tribe does, and it's you as an individual have rights. And that idea is not only being challenged in our country, it's being disregarded. It's disregarded in DEI. It's disregarded in affirmative action. Identity politics is a refutation of that idea. We are awarding some people something because of how they were born and hurting others for the same reason.

33:30That is anti-Western. It's evil. And it leads, in the end, inexorably to genocide. That is the root idea behind what happened in Europe in the 40s under the Nazis. It's the root idea behind what happened in Rwanda in 1994. It's the root idea, just saying, behind what's happening in Gaza right now. Where it's like, we're going to kill the kids too. We don't care. And we're going to, by the way, move everyone out because they're a people that is fundamentally opposed to us. Yeah, well, I'm not for that. Sorry because that's not the Western understanding of justice. We punish the guilty alone We do not punish the innocent period and That's not racism and in fact, it's the it's the answer to racism.

34:18It's the answer to anti-semitism It's why anti-semitism is wrong. It's why racism is wrong. No, you're not better than me No, you're not worse than me because of how you were born. You're the same as me because we're both created by God period so the whole idea of thinking of people as members of tribes any tribe including my tribe is prima facie immoral and yet it is the operating idea behind so much of our politics and i reject it i reject it when it manifests as anti-semitism i reject it when it manifests as anti-white racism which has you know been pretty common i know we're not supposed to say it but it's real but I'm not mad about that just because my kids are white, which they are.

35:01I'm mad about that because the idea is immoral. It's anti-Christian. And that is the destruction of the West. And so when I see these people, we're defending Western, when Mark Levin's like, we're defending Western civilization. Randy Fine, who's like, yeah, we just have to kill every Palestinian because they're Palestinian so we can defend Western civilization. I'm like, no, no, no. You're the enemy of Western civilization because collective punishment is the enemy of Western civilization, period. Period. Wow. That's what I wanted to say, and I said it, and they called me a Nazi, and I'm like, actually, I hate the Nazis for that specific reason.

35:36But wait, what I hear you saying, sort of, is that you wanted to reach him. You wanted him. Of course I want to reach him and everyone watching. But were you trying to help him in a way? I want to tell the truth as I understand it with the ever-present knowledge that I'm kind of a buffoon and I'm often wrong. I supported the Iraq war. I remind myself of that every single day. I've made a ton of mistakes, a ton of errors and judgments. I've been carried away by enthusiasm and particularly by anger many times in my life. So with that knowledge, knowing that I am imperfect and I don't always possess the truth, okay?

36:11You always have to remember that because I'm not God. I still want to tell the truth as clearly and completely as I can in every venue, in every conversation, as fearlessly and without shame as I possibly can. And that's why Nazi Week doesn't bother me anymore, because I'm not a Nazi. I'm a Christian. Of course. So what about, I don't want to spend the whole time on this, but I am curious. The main criticism, as I understand it, has been, well, yes, platforming. They say that. I don't accept platforming as a valid objection. What is that a verb, by the way? You take a noun and you make it into a verb and nobody says anything?

36:45As a former editor, I say no. Yeah, agreed. Honestly, but as far as I know, Nick Fuentes hasn't eaten anyone. You know, I mean, Jeffrey Dahmer ate people, and he was platformed by Diane Sawyer. We have a member, a sitting member of Congress. I spoke to the Speaker of the House about this today. We have a sitting member of Congress from Florida called Randy Fine, who was literally texted or put on Twitter, we should kill them all, every single one. Someone texted a picture of literally of a dead baby, and he laughs at it. And it's like, this guy's a lawmaker who's appropriating money to a military committing genocide, and that's cool?

37:18It's not cool. And let's just be honest. that is much worse than anything Nick Fuentes has said, period. So the main pushback has been when you had Jeffrey Dahmer or the Ku Klux Klan, etc., these journalists went after them, like exposed the terrible things. And Nick Fuentes has said a long list of very vile things. Big time, including attacking my dad, which was the most vile of all, in my opinion. Yeah. I mean, I personally have watched videos of him questioning the Holocaust, likening it to baking cookies in the oven and there's no way you could have gotten to six million seems to be his theory.

37:55He seems to think that we've way overstated the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust. He's ripped on poor Usha Vance in the most offensive terms. So what do you say to those people? Why didn't you raise any of that? You know, do your own interview the way that you want to do it. You're not my editor. Buzz off. I mean, I don't know. You want to go yell at Nick Fuentes? I'll give you a cell. Call him. and go sit and yell at him and feel virtuous or whatever. That's up to you. I got the same thing with Putin. Why aren't you yelling at him? Okay, why? So I can show that I'm a good person? I care about what my wife thinks, my children think, and God thinks, and that's it.

38:32I don't need to prove that I'm a good person to you. You may think I'm a terrible person. Okay, I'm just doing my thing, which is I want to understand what people think. And I'm committed to that. And if you don't like it, don't watch. That's my view. But that doesn't mean that I share the views. I'm not telling Nazi jokes, obviously, or Holocaust jokes. I mean, please. And I don't, you know, I'm not telling them even in private because I'm not into that at all. But I will say, just since you brought it up, one thing that did bother me was the Usha Vance thing. And I did actually, I generally make it a practice not to be like, you said this and da-da-da-da-da, and the internet tells me or, you know, the ADL says you said this.

39:12It's like, why don't you just tell me what you do think? Like, why don't you speak for yourself? Because we're adults. that is my approach with everybody whether I like him or don't like him but the Usha Vance thing did upset me because I know Usha Vance and I love Usha Vance and I was really offended by that just personally because I know her in a normal way and I did think about that that pissed me off and I'm just being as honest as I can be I didn't want to repeat it as a journalist you're always there like do I repeat it and spread it Kind of, and it's like so wounding He attacked my wife, as I said So, I don't know I'm sensitive on that Maybe I made the wrong call, by the way, probably So now having done it, what do you think of him?

39:59About Fuentes? Yeah I think It's so funny I did not make Nick Fuentes Nick Fuentes is Well, he's just enormously gifted as a broadcaster. It's unbelievable. His talent is... I mean, I have done that job. Not the Holocaust jokes, obviously, but I've sat in front of a camera and talked. He's really good at it. He has not been canceled. He can't be canceled. So I kind of think of Fuentes in terms of what place does he occupy? What does he say about our society? And I'm not making excuses for anybody else's views. I'm just saying as a factual matter, if this is the most popular person among young men, young white men, then we need to start thinking about why that is.

40:51And we need to reflect on what we have collectively done to young men, which is destroy them, actually. And no one wants to say that because no one wants to take any responsibility at all for anything ever. No one ever wants to repent. They all want to cast stones. They don't see the plank in their own eye. This is including me. It's just humans are like this. and they want to be like Nazi and it's like oh yeah okay great great but like how did this happen why are they listening to him kind of can I ask you so and part of the reason is because the Republican Party completely betrayed its voters by obsessing over Israel that's just a fact like what is this it's a country of nine million people I'm not against Israel I visited on vacation I have always liked Jerusalem's my favorite city in the world I'm not against Israel but like why is at the center of our conversation.

41:38It's 9 million people, no resources. The only strategic value Israel has is the extent to which we have to defend Israel. But take that out and there's no value at all. I'm not against it. I'm just saying like, we're a country of 350 million people. We're the most important country in the world. And our politics is, and every, practically every member of Congress spends all day talking about Israel. And if you're a normal person, you're like, I don't hate Israel. I certainly don't hate Jews. But what the hell is this? And then it's like, shut up, you can't talk about it. Why? Clarify what you mean, because when you were winding up on, you know, the Republican Party has abandoned young men, I was with you, both parties have abandoned young men, especially Democrats, though, for so many other reasons, but why Israel?

42:17You're saying the focus is over there. Yeah, I mean, look, Trump is elected, I campaigned for him with, and I love Trump, I just want to say that, and I talked to him the other day, and I love Trump. And I've known him for 25 years, and I, I mean, I could write many books on Trump, and they would be positive, basically. But the second he gets elected, who's the first person to visit? Bibi. Then he comes again. Then he comes again. And it's like the energy of the administration and of the entire U.S. government is all of a sudden about Iran. A war with Iran? Really? How many people do you know who've been killed by Iran in the United States in your lifetime?

42:53Zero, because that's the number. How many people do you know who've died of a drug OD? Some. Maybe you have a nephew who did. So like, what is this? I know you want to have regime change in Iran. I'm not mad at Israel at all. I'm not actually mad at Israel. I'm mad at our leaders for spending their time and my money focusing on someone else's country. And then I'm doubly mad because that's a total betrayal of the promise, which is your government works for you because you own the government, because it's a democratic republic. Like, what the hell is going on? And then if you say anything about it, it's like, you're a Nazi, you're an anti-Semite.

43:30Well, actually, I'm not. And I'm in a really great place to say that, because I actually, I'm really, I'm not. And no matter how many times they say that, it like doesn't bother me, because it's, I think it's, in fact, by the way, I think they are attacking me, because I'm pretty reasonable. Like, who, who would disagree with what I'm saying? I'm just, maybe you do. Okay, you do, but you do, you disagree with what I'm saying. But like, What is the answer? Why would the U.S. government spend all this time? No, it's a sincere question. Why is the overwhelming majority of the U.S. Congress taking money from a foreign unregistered lobby?

44:06Like, what? Like, what is the answer? Why is that okay? And they want to prevent you from asking that question because there really isn't a good answer other than shut up. And if that's the only answer, I just, by my temperament and my age, I'm just not going to shut up because that's not hate. It's sincere. What is that? What do you make of the folks who say Israel is our most important ally in the Middle East? They're in a very tough neighborhood. They have our shared Western values. They have our back. We have their back. And that we have much more in common with the people in Israel than we do with some of these surrounding countries.

44:44I would say, what are you talking about? Who are pushing things like Sharia law, which I heard you comment on. Okay. What's happening in Gaza, which is the killing of civilians because they are related to terrorists, they've said that too. This is not a left-wing talking point. Have you read? Guys are fiery tonight. It's just a fact. Read Ben-Gavir, Smotrich, on this. These are sitting cabinet ministers in the current government saying, starve them out. Kill them. Kill their children. This is like a cabinet secretary in the current government in Israel saying this out loud. That is not Western.

45:20That's Eastern. That is totally incompatible with Western civilization. We don't punish the innocent, period, under any circumstances, or else we're as bad as the people we're fighting. And that, by the way, the U.S. government has done the same, and I've complained about it a lot. And no one has ever called me names for criticizing my own government, so why is it verboten to criticize somebody else's government thousands of miles away. What the hell are you talking about? I just believe in the principle. And second, tell me why they're our most important ally. Right down the road, you've got countries that have the bulk of the world's energy supply.

45:58That's not an important ally? What? If you're looking at foreign policy through the lens of what's good for America, you don't want to make unnecessary enemies. I like Israel for the eighth time. How many people have been there on vacation just because they like it. I have. I took my kids. I'm not against it. I don't want it to get hurt. But from a geostrategic point of view, your duty, if you're running the State Department or running the White House or a member of Congress, is to serve the people who elected you in your country. So you need to think seriously as you do with your own children, what's good for them.

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47:35I would hate for people to believe that the Nick Fuentes sort of, my problems with Nick Fuentes are about me because they really are not. They are about the fact that Nick Fuentes is a truly horrifying person who believes truly horrifying things. And again, there is a reason why Charlie Crook despised him. There is a reason why every mainstream political commentator has been highly critical of him. It's the reason why... These are not arguments. This is not a person who's making arguments. He is a Hitler-loving troll. And I say that advisedly. He literally says on his show that he loves Adolf Hitler.

48:12So the reason this has come up in recent weeks is because Tucker, your guest last night, decided to have him on last week and to completely gloss him, in my opinion. And you can make up your own opinion as to what you think Tucker was doing during that interview, but I know what it looks like when Tucker Carlson decides to be an aggressive interviewer, when he decides to ask difficult questions of people. Tucker is eminently capable of doing that, and he did it to Ted Cruz quite thoroughly. But he decided for any number of reasons, and I try not to attribute motivations to people, that he was going to treat Fuentes with kid gloves, that he was going to not ask him about any of the things that I've just mentioned, literally any of them, and to essentially normalize Fuentes, act as a sort of gateway drug or as a what I've called Tucker, is an ideological launderer of bad ideas over the last couple of years.

49:00And this is not coming from a place of animus for Tucker on a personal level. I've known Tucker for a very long time. Whenever we're in personal situations, we get along great. I saw that Tucker talked about how we were at Charlie's memorial in the vice president's box together, and he's correct. I mean, we saw each other, we said hello, we talked, it was very friendly, and all of that. And it's also true that a couple of days after Charlie's murder, he reached out and he called me and he said, listen, I know that we're at odds and we've been at odds for a number of reasons, mainly political. I mean, again, on a personal level, I'd go fishing with Tucker anytime.

49:33The real question is, for me, I got into this business because I care about the ideas and I care about the ideals. And so when you're determining what is conservatism, what should the future of America look like, and where do you draw the lines, those are the questions that I need to answer in my job. For me, my business is really not about friendship. I have lots of friends, people who I love, with whom I disagree on politics and don't believe they should be leaders in the conservative movement, for example. And that, to me, is the real question. In any case, Tucker reached out. He said, you know, we've had a bunch of disagreements, and what if we could put those aside and align toward the DSA in particular, is what he mentioned.

50:11And I said, you know, Tucker, you're totally right, let's do that. That would be great. In fact, the TSA, the DSA, DSA, the Democratic Socialist of America. Why the TSA? How did that bring you together? The Democratic Socialist of America. No, that I know. Yes. And the reason I'm taking out my phone is because, yes, the reason I'm taking out my phone is because I don't just, you know, I like to evidence what I'm saying with, you know, actual evidence. So I texted him and the text exchange was very nice. I mean, here's what the actual text exchange went like after the call. So I texted him and I said, thanks so much for calling.

50:45it means the world. It truly does. Should we do a show together talking about the DSA threat, Democratic Socialists of America threat, and orienting in the same direction? Happy to do whatever it takes to bring everyone back together for the fight that matters. And Tucker then wrote back, thanks man, I appreciate it. I'm going to spend the next week or two thinking about how to be most effective. The country is clearly on the brink. I reached out repeatedly. After that, nothing happened. And again, I thought it was a good idea at the time. I think I felt differently after I saw what he did with Nick Fuentes and after he proceeded, in my opinion, to spend the subsequent weeks doing literally nothing to fight the left.

51:23Again, I say this with sadness because Tucker used to be, I think, a deeply important part of the conservative push to win. The number of times that Tucker Carlson has mentioned Zoran Mamdani since October 5th on his show is once. And it was in the context of Marjorie Taylor Greene and Tucker Carlson talking about the appeal of Zoran Mamdani. Just by way of contrast, not because I'm a perfect representative here, but because you've talked about Zoram Amdani a lot. A lot of us have. Since October 5th, I did 17 separate shows on Zoram Amdani, including four in the last week before the election. Because when you're orienting against the left, you really should orient against the left.

52:02Okay, so a lot in there.

52:08I think, just to be clear, so the breakdown from the, like, detente after Charlie was him interviewing Fuentes. Like, was that the next thing that happened that led to the blow-up? I mean, yes. I mean, I had not spoken a word. So it wasn't that he attacked you, like, you had something. No, I don't care about people attacking you. I don't think Tucker cares about people attacking him. I mean, again, we're professionals. We're in a business where people comment on what we say publicly. Again, this is why I think you and I differ on our angle with regard to, for example, Candace Owens. I think that what Candace Owens is doing right now is evil.

52:42It is evil, what she is doing right now. And I say that again. But what... I don't opine on whether it's evil or not, but my position is it's really none of my business. I have a question. Why is it none of your business? I mean, you comment on these things for a living. I'm not mother of the Internet. No, but if this were on the left and somebody were accusing Charlie Kirk of his wife having murdered him, I assume that you would be talking about it. Is that what Candace is accusing Erica of? Yes. Of murdering her own husband? She's accusing TPUSA insiders and other members of the right wing, including Seth Dillon, of being involved in the murder of Charlie Kirk, yes.

53:19Okay. Like I said, I don't take in that content, which is an honest statement. I don't have time to watch Candace's show. No, I believe you. I believe you. But the point that I'm making is that when we're... What I understand Candace too have been doing. I think it's important. Listen, friendship should not trump. We don't even know each other. I understand, but even with Tucker, friendship should not trump our manifest requirement to speak out when people do and say things that are both detrimental to conservatism and morally wrong. So I don't totally disagree, but I think the way of handling that, at least for me, is much different.

53:50So I saw things go south between you and Tucker, at least from my vantage point, when you disagreed on Israel. That was obvious. Well, let me just make my point. So he was saying things that were critical of Israel and our policy towards Israel. And then you did one show where you did what I thought you should have done, if you disagreed with him, which clearly you did, which is say what you believe and what you think is factual and educate your audience on what you think are the real facts and give them the evidence for it. But you named him, and it felt like an attack. And that, to me, was the beginning of the end, where he was like, now it's on.

54:25because he felt personally attacked by you as opposed to just challenging his idea. I think you named him and you kind of diminished him. And, you know, he's an 800-pound gorilla, and if you mess with a gorilla, he's going to fight. And to me, that's where it started to go south. And because I remember that day being like, oh, shit. Like, I don't want to see this. But here's the thing. I would urge everybody to go back and listen to the show that you're referring to where I criticized Tucker's ideas, not Tucker as a person. Tucker then responded by claiming that I do not love America. That is a direct quote.

54:52that I do not love America because I was spending too much time covering the October 7th attacks, and then proceeded in January to then say that I wanted his children to die in a foreign war. Okay, so those are different. That's a rhetorical point. No, it is not. I'm sorry, it's not. An attack on motivation is a very different thing from an attack on an idea. His point was that you were sounding like a neocon, and he's upset with anybody who wants us to get too involved in Israel's conflict because he feels it endangers American children. It is a... Okay, the idea that, number one, the idea that I want the United States to be directly involved in Israel's conflict is not true.

55:28I get it. No, I know that, Ben. I've been urging Israel to get off of American aid for literally as long as I have been active in politics. But I'm making clear what his point was. No, no, but my point is that that's not his point. And again, none of this blew into— So we disagree. Well, no, we disagree on the interpretation of what Tucker has been doing for the past two years. And it's very difficult for me to believe that Tucker is merely anti-Israel when, for example, today, in his newsletter— I mean, I can directly quote it if you'd like. In his newsletter today, he claimed that Zoran Mamdani is not anti-Semitic.

56:00This was his newsletter today, this morning. I mean, I'm happy to read the text. It's a little extraordinary because, again, it is kind of shocking stuff. So here's what Tucker Carlson wrote in his newsletter today, or what his newsletter says under his name. He said, is the incoming mayor a fan of Israel? Does he want America to fight its wars? Not particularly. But a Jew hater? That's a different conversation. We've never seen anything to suggest he falls into that ugly camp. If we're talking about fighting the left, defending Zahra Mamdani, who literally said that Hamas, he has no opinion whether Hamas should disarm, who posed alongside the 1993 World Trade Center unindicted co-conspirator who wouldn't have to sound globalized the Intifada, who suggested that whenever there is a New York Police Department boot on somebody's neck, it's an IDF lacing the strings, to suggest that that's not anti-Semitic in any way, no way.

56:48Okay, but listen, I'm going to give you a defense of Tucker here. And I don't need to defend Tucker because I'm not Tucker. Tucker can perfectly well defend himself. I think in general, because I know him and I listen to him and I understand generally where he's coming from, he would say his problems are with Israel. And he would say that that shot that Mamdani laid against the IDF is a shot against the IDF and Israel and how he thinks they're pro-war, not against Jews. And I think— All I can say is when Tucker Carlson finds himself in complete alignment with Zoran Mamdani, it is very difficult for me to believe that he does not agree with Zoran Mamdani.

57:22is in a place right now of the same place that Charlie was getting to toward the end of his life, the same place that some people had tried to drive me, which is you're under withering, nonstop accusations of being something you know you're not. But from some people who you love and who you've been protecting, at least in my case and Charlie's case, for two years, who you've been completely defensive of. And Charlie and I both felt, because we talked about this on my show, like, what's happening here? Why are they dropping charges of anti-Semitism against us when we love Jews and we're both open Semites?

57:57We're Zionists. Megan, you may notice. I'm just talking about me here. Are there people who are overzealous? Have I ever attacked you? No, no, never. Did I ever attack Charlie publicly about any of this? No, no, no, no. He and I had disagreements behind the scenes. I'm just saying it's a mentality, right? That you're like, you get defensive, and I think Tucker's feeling defensive. By the way, I waited to attack Tucker until he glossed Nick Fuentes. That has nothing to do with Israel. Nick Fuentes hates Jews. I'm not saying you didn't have a right to go after him. I mean, I think you did what you thought was right.

58:25And he mentioned you a few times in his interview with Nick Fuentes. He did, but again, I don't think it's about that. Because if he had not mentioned me in that interview with Nick Fuentes, I still would have said something about it. Because again, glossing people who are white supremacists is bad electorally on a pragmatic level. A right wing that embraces its own fringes will end up in the same position as a left wing that has embraced its fringes. Okay, so that's why I want to get into it. It embraces. Yes. So now having spoken to Tucker, I actually see that interview very differently. And I did listen to the interview, and I knew what Nick Funtes was.

58:55And I think he did show himself to be who he is. It wasn't his most vile stuff, but you got the feel for what this guy was. But I really think Tucker was talking to him, Ben, to put like a bumper on this guy. Because what Tucker was urging him the whole time was to understand that collective punishment for any one group of people is wrong. It's deeply immoral and it's anti-Christian, which this guy is supposed to be. And reminding him of how deeply immoral that is, that you should not be looking at a group of people, whomever it is. The left does it to everyone, whites mostly, but like this collective shame, white men in particular.

59:33And there's a group of people like Nick Fuentes that does it to groups of Jews. And he was making the case throughout the whole interview in the way that Tucker does. He's not like you or me. He's not like pointed and cross-examining. That is not true. And was making... That is fundamentally untrue. No, no, no. Ask Senator Ted Cruz whether that is true. He gave it to Ted Cruz because Ted Cruz is a politician. That's... Oh, yeah. Well, hold on. Hold on. So only politicians get cross-examined? You don't... Well, look. It depends on the person. Tucker would never cross-examine a person who is not a politician.

1:00:00That's his rule? Tucker has excoriated public figures who purport to speak for us and represent us for many years. Nick Fuentes is a podcaster civilian. Okay, I just have a question. We all in our industry are constantly excoriating people who are in our industry. It happens all the time, every single day. Okay. We're talking about his interviews. Again, we can agree to disagree on your interpretation of what Tucker was doing there. I think everybody should watch and determine for themselves what they think Tucker was doing in that interview. And I urge you to watch it back to back with the Ted Cruz interview to determine whether you think that that was an aggressive Tucker Carlson interview.

1:00:39you and you can judge yourself. I didn't say it was aggressive. I didn't say it was aggressive and I don't think he would say it was aggressive. And I think his point was this guy, first of all, he's become a behemoth, sadly. He's got 5 million viewers on Rumble. He's got a million followers on X. I agree. This is all before Tucker Carlson. And he was platformed, I hate that verb, but he was platformed by Patrick Bet-David and he went on Dave Smith's show and he went on another big show. He's been getting more and more purchase in the political ecosphere, including right wing. And I think that's bad.

1:01:07Patrick Beck David has a huge show. I know, but did you know that Patrick Beck David had him on? Did his life blow up? Patrick Beck David did a significantly more aggressive interview with Nick Fuentes than Tucker did. Okay, but my point is simply he's growing. He's growing in stature. And so what I saw Tucker do was not whitewash his ideas, but try to put bumpers up on the guy. I know Tucker well, and I think that was his approach. And the way, if you want to put a bumper up on Nick Fuentes, is it helpful to say, you're fucking vile, you're an anti-Semite no it isn't that makes the audience feel good because you have hand-to-hand combat but it doesn't help change that guy's view or his extremeness at all okay, I'll tell you what doesn't change Nick Fuentes' view Tucker Carlson with his arm around Nick Fuentes, grinning for the camera while Nick Fuentes tweets out America first and then triumphantly goes on the air the next day to explain that he has essentially used Tucker Carlson as a vehicle for manipulating other people.

1:02:05Okay, that's what Nick Fuentes is saying. Not me, Nick Fuentes. Okay, and Nick Fuentes, and by the way, I will again say that Tucker Carlson, when you say to somebody in an interview, do you condemn anti-Semitism? And then the person says, sure, which is what Nick Fuentes said. He said, I'm not an anti-Semitic, which is blatantly untrue. A responsible journalist would then follow up, demonstrating that that is false. Tucker did not do that. He allowed him to get away with that. And then he allowed him to talk about, quote-unquote, organized a jury, followed by Nick Flantes being treated to a disquisition by Tucker Carlson about why Christian Zionists of all human beings on Earth are the people that he hates the most.

1:02:41He took that back. You can't take that back. You can too. How do you take that back? He did. How? He went, he spoke. Then he should explain why it was wrong. He should explain why Christian Zionists are actually wonderful people. Tucker is very quick to self-flagellate, and he went on with Dave Smith the next day, the next week, whatever, Monday, Tuesday this week, and said, that was stupid. I didn't mean that. He said, I'm angry at people like Lindsey Graham. I'm angry at people like Ted Cruz because he thinks they run headfirst in these conflicts, and they don't think about what's going to happen to American kids.

1:03:11If we're talking about firing inside the tent, what everything Lindsey Graham, okay, and I'm not a huge Lindsey Graham fan. He votes with the President of the United States 100 % of the time, and Tucker spent yesterday's show excoriating him as a psychosexual death worshiper. Does that sound like firing outside the tent? Again, these are the questions. I've got to say, I'm not offended. Again, the questions that I'm asking here, I'm not asking you to do anything, Megan. No, I know. Okay, I'm not. I know, our beef is not with each other. I'm not, okay? When I draw a line with regard to what I believe Tucker Carlson is doing to the conservative movement and what he is fomenting, That is because, that is my influence, and everyone can make their own decision as to whether they think that I am right or whether I am wrong, and where they choose to draw the line with regard to the conservative movement.

1:03:49The question for me is always whether somebody's statements are forwarding moral values that I think are worthwhile. I did not get into this business for the money or for the clicks. You didn't either? Neither did he. What was that? Neither did he. I mean, he may not have. That's fine. I certainly did not. I'm only going to speak for myself. And what that means for me is that if I see somebody breach basic moral values by having on a Nazi, and in my own view, you can take your own view, in my own view, gloss the Nazi, then I'm going to speak out about that. And I'm going to point out that there is a long pattern of him ideologically laundering terrible ideas over the course of the last two years, ranging from traveling to Russia to sniff the bread and explain why the Russian regime is actually wonderful, to saying last week that the Venezuelan regime of Nicolas Maduro is actually not that bad because they're being attacked by, in his words, Globo Homo.

1:04:44Tucker's made the point, I'm not going to be Tucker's defender, but he's made the point that Maduro is culturally conservative. Who gives a shit? The guy's a communist dictator. Everyone in his country is eating dog. He's shipping fentanyl to the United States to kill Americans. Why do I give a shit whether he's anti-LGBTQ rights? This is the number one thing about Nicolas Maduro? You know how far down the list you have to get before you can get to anything remotely recommendable about Nicolas Maduro? I did ask him yesterday about the criticism that he didn't give Nick Fuentes a hard time, He didn't bring up the stuff that we were talking about.

1:05:22No, he didn't. And here's what he said. It seemed to think that we've way overstated the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust. He's ripped on poor Usha Vance in the most offensive terms. So what do you say to those people? Why didn't you raise any of that? Do your own interview the way that you want to do it. You're not my editor. Buzz off. I mean, I don't know. You want to go yell at Nick Fuentes? says, I'll give you a cell. Call him and go sit and yell at him and feel virtuous or whatever. That's up to you. I agree with him. No, I agree. I agree with him. I agree with him. He did the interview that he wanted to do for a reason.

1:06:01Well, who has it worse? The Katie Porter staff or the Meghan Markle staff?

1:06:09Who would you rather work for? katie right or megan because at least you could like spy on them and see their weird little life oh do we have do we have to we definitely have to there's only one megan i can actually still be civil to and it's the one sitting to my left uh the other one she's she's getting back into acting peers i'm sure you saw that she's shooting a movie now uh she's playing herself in a movie yeah she's she's which is i guess acting yeah look i'm actually genuinely curious are there any fans of Meghan Markle in tonight? No. Oh, hang on. There is one lone hand has raised up here.

1:06:49Subversive. Actually, that is one more than I expected, I have to be honest. Do you think she's going to make it in the acting world? I mean, remember, I used to do a show called Good Morning Britain in Britain, and I love that show. That was a great show. And in five years we trebled the ratings, it was on fire. Everyone loved it. and then came the Oprah Winfrey wine-a-thon, as I call it. You and I were on together the morning after that. Yes. Remember that? Yes. I had no show. I was sitting in my living room. We took that thing down. Well, because there were certain things she said in that, and half-wit Harry, her husband.

1:07:25And one of the things they said was that the Archbishop of Canterbury had secretly married them in their back garden three days before the wedding on TV. So we did a quick check because I thought, that can't be right. and we did a quick check. It turns out that had the Archbishop of Canterbury secretly married them in their garden, he would have broken the law and been sent to prison. So I thought, yeah, old Princess Pinocchio is off on a good one here. And then the rest of it was, and all the racism claims turned out to be bullshit. The mental health claims were bullshit. All of it was bullshit.

1:08:00Designed to damage and attack the royal family, the monarchy and all of it. And it made me puke. Let's not forget. the Oprah performance. What? What? What? These people? What? How dark your baby was going to be? It was ridiculous. And you know who they were talking about, by the way, because they accidentally put the names of the alleged racists in a, I think it was a Danish copy of the book by Omid Scobie, this little rat bag who writes books supporting him. And the two members of the royal family who apparently expressed concern about the skin colour of their unborn child were King Charles, Prince Charles at the time, and Catherine, William's wife.

1:08:48Now, how likely do you think it is that either of those two people expressed negative concern about the skin colour of an unborn child? Absolutely big, fat zero. And yet that was what they told the world in that interview. That's why I thought it was so disgusting. And all right, in the end, I was told that 57 ,000 people complained to the television regulators at Ofcom in the UK. A world record, I'm proud to say, complained about me for not believing Princess Pinocchio. So I was then told by my bosses, look, by the way, rule one here, never apologize, never clarify, never do anything. I can verify that.

1:09:33But it doesn't work. We know this. So we did a clarification the next day, and it made no difference. The complaints kept coming in. And eventually my boss had said, can you just apologize to Meghan Markle, or you're going to have to maybe lose your job. I went, I'll take the job option, thanks, I'll leave. And I walked off into the sunset.

1:09:55Because two things about the woke mob, and she's the high priestess of wokery, and her husband's the high priest halfwit of wokery. and the truth about it is never bow to the mob, never grovel, never apologize, never give them an inch and when you have something that's a point of principle, stand up for yourself and walk the fuck out. Yes, yes. Amen. Preach. I know you've lived it, I've watched it. She's a bully and her acting career, whatever she's trying to do is going to fail just like everything else she touched fails. I thought, didn't you think the Dodgers video clip from their living room?

1:10:31Oh, God. With her waltzing around. Yes. Like a hyena. Literally like a hyena with a spear in its back, wasn't it? Eee! Eee! Eee! And Harry's face. The halfwit sat there like he was doped out of his brain, which he probably was. And the whole thing was so cringe, wasn't it? It was awful. Terrible! I really want there to be a season three, though, of With Love, Megan. Don't you want to see another... Do you want to see another Maureen Callahan parody? We got to do it. We did a little parody of it. Ours was fuck off, Megan. And I think I can channel her better than she can channel her. I think I'm a much more likable version of her.

1:11:07As I said in the parody, as she's encouraging people to drink more, people tend to like me better when they're intoxicated. And I think that's really been her experience. So I don't think the acting career is going to do it. But the name of the movie is Close Personal Friends. And I thought, how ironic Pierre is because she has none of those. None. Right? You see the parade of people who go through her little TV show, and it's all like, oh, this is the person of my closest and dearest friends, and they're sitting there, and she's like, oh, do you have children? That is your best friend. What was your name again?

1:11:43It's amazing. You mentioned British television, how poorly you were treated, and it was disgusting. The UK is even walker than we are, and they're very annoying, and they're way more Muslim than we are, radical Muslim and way more pro-immigrant. It's bad. It's bad. You guys are a canary in the coal mine in a lot of ways for us. But we saw something happen on the BBC this week that made international headlines, and it was absurd. So this woman, this presenter, as you say, was doing a report about various groups who might be affected by some medical policy, and the list included, should have included pregnant women, but instead this happened.

1:12:24We have the soundbite. Let's watch it.

1:12:29London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine has released research which says that nearly 600 heat-related deaths are expected in the UK. Malcolm Mistry, who was involved in the research, says that the aged pregnant people, women, and those with pre-existing health conditions need to take precautions. Would you believe for that they're trying to give her the Piers Morgan treatment? They just upheld 20 complaints against her. Imagine who those 20 people are, right? Just imagine, stuck in their dungeon at home, right, in their joyless woke dungeon and decided to complain about a woman presenter being forced to read the words pregnant people.

1:13:15Well, how many times have you seen a pregnant man right in your life how many times do you think you'll see a pregnant man in the rest of your life here's a spoiler alert you won't there aren't any pregnant men it is bullshit it's so mad you know the irony megan the irony i tell that story in my book Woke is Dead, about that incident, and I say, wasn't it great that the BBC didn't bow to the mob and actually didn't take any action against her? As my book is published in America now, they come back and they punish her. I mean, you literally couldn't make it up. Yes. No. I mean, is she going to lose her job over this?

1:14:01I don't think so. But it's just, I wish every female presenter at the BBC stood up and walked out until they withdrew the ruling against it. Because no woman should have to be made to read out the words pregnant people. It's actually about the complete disintegration of gendered language that benefits women. You know, we talked about... It's about the disintegration of truth. When mothers became birthing people. I mean, what does that mean? Nothing. Nor is chest feeding a thing. That's also a lie. Chest feeding. Chest feeding. What the fuck is that? It's also known as child abuse. This poor woman, her sin in that video was not just that she corrected the term pregnant people, but then they said she made a face.

1:14:50She made a face that, that expressed personal opinion. Meanwhile, the people are all over the BBC expressing opinions, especially on race, like when they watch sporting events and so on. There's never any discipline. It's only on something... It's a hypocrisy. It's a really bad misstep by the BBC. I actually like the BBC. It's a lot of great stuff. Honestly, they've grown very woke. And this is an example of why, although I say woke is dead, it's an aspiration. It still pokes his head up and you've got to The reason I think it's dead, the story recently of Graham Linehan, the comedian. Irish comedian.

1:15:25He came out of our show. Pretty fearless guy. He winds people up with the way he says stuff. Fair enough. He can be very abrasive. But he's fought a pretty lonely battle on behalf of women's rights against a trans activist. And it's cost him everything. Cost him his marriage, his home, his job, his livelihood. He was a creative father, one of the great comedies. And yeah, we should give him a round of applause, actually. Yeah, go Graham. And not all heroes wear cakes, right? They can come in all guises. And he's an unlikely hero. But he became one for me because the other day, he comes into Heathrow Airport.

1:16:00It's the first time he's been back to the UK since he put two jokes on X, on his X account, in April. And one joke was, to summarize it, was a bit of a lame gag. But, you know, is it really that terrible? He talked about a trans woman coming into a woman's changing room, and he said, what the best thing to do is kick them in the balls. Now, look. Some will find that funny. Some will think it's a bit over the top. All right. You know, if you go to any comedy club in the world, you'll hear jokes like that every 10 seconds. That was the joke. It sat there on his ex account. People either laughed or didn't laugh, as we've done tonight.

1:16:40But when he came into Heathrobe three, four weeks ago, five armed police officers were waiting to arrest him and take him to the cells for his joke. Five armed police. And in that moment, I realized my country, which was, you know, Winston Churchill fought World War II with the help of the Americans before you all remind me. And thank you. Thank you. We're pretty proud of that. Thank you. No, genuinely, thank you. It was a great team effort. We repelled them together. It was great. But that war was fought to save us from the Nazis, who would have killed free speech in a second. What are we doing in the United Kingdom?

1:17:20And several hundred people have been arrested for tweets and social media posts in the last couple of years. It is completely ridiculous. You cannot have a free democratic society if you don't aggressively defend freedom of speech and freedom of expression. It is the cornerstone of a democracy. It's, I mean, obviously we love our First Amendment, and I know you and many other Brits are jealous of it. I mean, the First Amendment is being eroded day by day, even here, but at least we have it. It's a very important principle of how we live the way we do. I think the woke mind virus is uniquely tied to a deep unhappiness.

1:17:58You know, you never meet a super happy woke person. They're joyless. Right. Utterly joyless. And that brings me... They never laugh at any jokes. Have you noticed? Yeah. Nothing is ever funny No book is ever a good read They're all toxic Every movie is toxic Every clothing you wear at Halloween is toxic And they are toxic They themselves are the toxic ones They become toxic So they're always deeply unhappy Which brings me of course to Michelle Obama

1:18:27Again to quote Stephen L. Miller Red steez on X I regret to inform you we've disappointed the Obamas again she's been out there promoting her new fashion book i know all you ladies look up to michelle obama as a fashion icon do you not anna wintour told us she is hello she's on the cover of vogue four times melania trump zero okay not as first lady anyway when she was an actual supermodel and mary trump they gave her one in any event um so michelle obama's been doing a book tour to promote her fashion book and the latest she's been making all sorts of news for the wrong reasons and And the latest bit that she offered was how tough it was to be First Lady because of the hair, makeup, and wardrobe team she had to deal with.

1:19:18Here's just a little sampling of what she's been saying. The job of First Lady is an interesting job, non-job. You know, it doesn't come with a real salary or job description. no one technically elected the first spouse i'll say all we've only had first ladies you're supposed to be aspirational but representational reachable approachable you know you're supposed to be feminine but not too sexy barack wears the same suit changes his tie buttons up you know his his decision or man's decision is do i go with the striped shirt or a plain white shirt? Do I go with a red tie or blue tie? If the day is long and there are a lot of events, which was always a challenge for me with Barack, if we'd go from Air Force One to a hike to a fundraiser, what do I wear?

1:20:23Hold on. Stand by. There's another one. SOT 3. Stand by. I was accused of being angry. It was shocking to me. Well, I didn't really have that choice this First Lady. Of course. Every day, every time I was up, as we called it, I was up for the public. And the days were long. So, as you mentioned, to save time. Yes. I know having a glam team, a trifecta, it feels like a luxury, but it was a time necessity. There's absolutely no way that I would be able to do my hair and makeup and have clothes ready that fit. Because where is the woman that can live off the rack? Right? No one can live off the rack.

1:21:20I'm sorry, but you have to subject yourself to the burdens of a hair, makeup, and wardrobe team. And by the way, how rich have they become since they left office? I mean, this is the deal, right? Hundreds of millions. They serve their country on a not insignificant sum of money. I think it's about$400 ,000 a year, the president gets. And they live in unparalleled luxury the entire time they're in office. And when they leave, they make hundreds of millions, if not billions, of dollars. Has anyone got a tiny violin for me that I can start playing here? Yes. Not for nothing, but did you see that hideous outfit she was wearing?

1:21:55I'm sorry. That's what having too much money does for you. I've just never met somebody so ungrateful in all my life. And what did she start it off with? People said I was hateful. Because you are. She can't stand America. She definitely can't stand Barack. And I don't think she likes herself very much either. So she's been doing this nonstop tour. And I just think there's a strain. She's woke. He's woke. there's a strain in the woke that leads you to be absolutely miserable which is why they too should be praying for woke to die and it's why i know this audience is not woke because you seem so happy yes look at me look totally genuinely happy people or it may it may be having come from england recently where it was pouring with rain and freezing cold as it is for about eight months of a year.

1:22:42It may just be because of the weather. Yeah, go Miami. The Florida weather. Enjoy it while you're here. I will. Thank you, Piers Morgan. My pleasure. I love you so much. Grand Canyon University, an affordable, private Christian university based in beautiful Phoenix, Arizona, is one of the largest universities in the country. Praised for its culture of community and impact, GCU integrates the free market system, a welcoming Christian worldview, and free and open discourse into more than 360 academic programs, including more than 300 online. Join a nationwide community of learners, redefining what online education looks like through academically rigorous and industry-driven programs that can spark bold ideas and prepare you for a future that matters.

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1:25:09Hey, everyone. It's me, Megan Kelly. I've got some exciting news. I now have my very own channel on Sirius XM. It's called the Megan Kelly Channel, and it is where you will hear the truth unfiltered with no agenda and no apologies. Along with The Megyn Kelly Show, you're going to hear from people like Mark Halperin, Link Lauren, Maureen Callahan, Emily Jashinsky, Jesse Kelly, Real Clear Politics, and many more. It's bold, no BS news. Only on the Megyn Kelly channel, Sirius XM 111, and on the Sirius XM app.

1:25:44Kim Kardashian is in the news. Forgive me, I try not to ever say her name. But she's in the news because she came out on the show with an admission that she has a brain aneurysm. And it's a sympathy ploy. Like, oh my God, I have a brain aneurysm. You know, something's going to happen to me and I'm so worried. Well, it turns out they taped this episode long before it actually hit air. And from the time she tried to get everybody worked up on her new victimhood status, because we know this is such a currency, she showed up in New York City for the launch of her skims partnership with Nike she went to that fashion show overseas where she had pantyhose all over her face she's been on virtually every red carpet known to man she's been doing talk shows she's been doing comedy shows there's really no stopping her from her public appearances and as it turns out the brain aneurysm is like some teeny tiny little vein thing that virtually everybody has and it's really not a big deal just needs to be monitored from time to time.

1:26:42She just played it up because she, like so many of these celebrities, wants to lean into victimhood status. Your thoughts on whether we should be moved by Kim's story. I always had a brain aneurysm watching when she was selling the Merkins last week, when she was selling those fake Bush panties. I'm like, oh, I'm too gay for this. With the fur? Yeah, with the fur. I will say she did have like a red curly one for little orphan Annie. I thought that was generous. She had a red one for Lindsay Lohan. I thought that was nice. But yeah, no, Kim Kardashian. I mean, I have to say, having grown up in the 70s, I don't remember it ever going that far.

1:27:14Bush is back in office, honey, with that. Anheuser-Busch, Jenna Bush, Hager. Okay, there was a lot of Bush going on. So no, I don't give a shit about Kim Kardashian. I think, honestly, Kim Kardashian, you guys. She has built a career and made billions of dollars off of giving women body dysmorphia. when Kim came into the game, everybody had to get a big ass. So girls went out there and they put themselves in harmful situations to get big asses. They went to foreign countries. They got injections. Now all the Kardashians are on Ozempic. What are those girls supposed to do from around the way who went and got big asses?

1:27:51So yeah, they've just built this career off of giving women body dysmorphia and then with the fake bush panties. So you spend millions of dollars on laser hair removal to just drop a merkin? That's a scam right there. That's a scam. And a scandal, really. It's true. Now she's got sheets over her head like freaking Islam or something. I don't know what's going on with her. Oh, it's all the rage in New York City. Let's talk about Michelle Obama. Michelle Obama just... I know you're all watching her podcast. you're the ones Michelle Obama wants you to feel very sorry for her because it's very hard being Michelle Obama everybody wants a piece of Michelle it's very hard to be so famous Michael Big Mike that's what they're saying I will say she might have more testosterone than me that bitch honestly honestly she might be packing more than me that whore

1:28:55okay so she's upset because it's hard to be so famous and she's upset because it was very expensive to live in the white house um they had to pay for their own food who has to pay for their own food what kind of world is this and just as soon as you start working up your sympathy glance for michelle obama you see her just recently out on steven spielberg's yacht cruising around the Mediterranean while she literally wants you to feel sorry for her. So do you? No. Do I feel sorry for Michelle Obama? Hell no. I have this place where I send women I call the unbearables, the insufferables. I send them in my mind to a place called Bitch Island.

1:29:37Okay, I want to send Michelle Obama to Bitch Island, Meghan Markle, Kathy Griffin. That's where I send them in my mind. The women of The View. Rosie. Rosie. They could host a show on Bitch Island, but Michelle Obama, right? She comes from humble beginnings. And it's always the people who say they came from humble beginnings that forget so quickly. Like she says, she grew up on the South side of Chicago. She's a round-the-way girl. She's Michelle from the block. She's Michelle from the block. But then she's like, can you believe I had to pay for my own caviar in the White House? And I'm like, what?

1:30:09People are starving. We have an invasion at the border. I can't even take her seriously, Michelle Obama. But it's always this victim card. And I think on the left, These democratic elites have realized playing the victim card is profitable. It gets you views. It gets people tuning in. But we're just all tired of it. We're so tired of it. Is Katie Porter on Bitch Island?

1:30:31No, I am Katie Porter's number one fan. Now, I need her to do more interviews with the Helga Oktoberfest haircut. I need Katie Porter. I'm not in a position to opine on hair. I get it. But listen, Katie Porter, that woman, She looks like those women in the circus who could lift 500 pounds, Katie Porter. He's not wrong. Right. So I need Katie Porter out there more. I'm really into her. The more interviews, the better with Katie Porter, right? 100%. Keep her talking like Kamala Harris. Keep her on the road every time she opens her mouth. It's a gift. It's a gift to us. She might. We have news about that.

1:31:06We'll talk about it in a minute with Mark Halpern on Kamala Harris. Stand by. So yeah, I love Katie Porter because the funny thing for me in watching all those clips is I understood her anger. Like when the staffer got in the back of the shot, you know, it was like, get out of the fucking shot. The person was in the shot. I would have been like, get Abby, get out of there. But I, but I would have said it lovingly, you know, harshly, but lovingly, there's a way you shouldn't swear at your employees is a bad habit on camera. Yeah. And, but now the ex-husband's coming out on camera. That's always bad.

1:31:37The ex-husband's now coming out saying she was a master manipulator. And now I'm like, all right, Well, this is getting a little really interesting, but also untoward because should we really be taking the ex-husband's word? I do, but should we be? Oh God, I don't have any ex-husbands in the audience tonight. I don't know if we should take his word. I heard that she poured a scalding cauldron of potatoes on his head and that's when I knew I loved her. When I poured a scalding cauldron of potatoes on her husband's head, I said, oh, this woman's interesting. Allegedly. Allegedly. Kamala Harris, I hear you've been enjoying her book tour.

1:32:12is it just me or is Kamala Harris's book tour going longer than the campaign? Like it's going longer and longer and longer. And I have these nicknames for Kamala. I call her Cabernet Kamala. I call her Kamalamity. I think the sequel. Yeah. I think the sequel to 107 days should be 12 steps. Maybe. I think Bill W. Could be the coauthor. And if that offended you call your sponsor, you can do the forward. I can do the forward. But yeah, no, Kamala Harris, I hope this book tour continues. I want her to run. And what's interesting, in this book, Kamala Harris talks about choosing her running mate. And she says, I did not choose Pete Buttigieg because he was gay.

1:32:55And I thought, okay, you don't choose Pete Buttigieg because he's gay. But then you choose Tim Walls, the gayest man in captivity. Okay, Tim Walls, Tim Walls, Mr. Jazz Hands. He walks into every room like Bob Fosse. Okay, sorry to get heated. But Tim Walls, this man with a questionable internet search history. Okay. I was speaking to a, I was speaking to a room of gays last week. I was speaking to a room of gay Republicans. Yeah. I said, who do you think has slept with more men? Everyone in this room combined or Tim Walls? Okay. There is something going on there. And they said, we chose Tim Walls because he's the pinnacle of masculinity.

1:33:33I said, no, Michelle Obama is in your party. Not Tim Walls. he could use a few more testosterone. I mean, really, like the thing with the camo hat was too much. When he couldn't load the gun. I mean, you people down in Texas must have been horrified. We were down in Texas, Doug and I, about a couple of years ago with a bunch of friends, and we were going to go motorbike riding, like dirt bike riding in the woods. It was like midnight and it was dark. We're going up to the woods. There were like 15 of us on these motorbikes and it was summer. So everybody had on shorts and a t-shirt and our host looked around and he says, is anybody carrying?

1:34:07I'm like, carrying? We're wearing like tiny shirts and shirts. literally every man was like, I am, I am, I am, I am. Yes. Like, I'm in Texas. I'm not in New York anymore. Yeah, I think some of my... I never felt so safe in my life. If anyone tries to F with us tonight, we got some Texas patriots in the audience. I think we're good. I think we're good. God bless Texas. Don't mess with it. Although they are trying to mess with it. What's with Austin? Oh. Yeah. Yeah. I don't get it. I see my MAGA ladies on the front row right here. I got my Trump ladies. Now, who did you vote for in the Trump hat?

1:34:45I love it. I mean, we did get Jasmine Crockett. Oh, y 'all heard of this woman, Jasmine Crockett? Okay. Jasmine Crockett, to me, is just appealing to the lowest common denominator at this point. I mean, she's become one of the most uncouth and articulate women in politics. And it's all a caricature. It's all a facade with Jasmine Crockett. When you look up her background, right? She grew up in St. Louis. She went to private school. She says she passed the bar exam. I don't know if she was sitting at a bar or if she actually passed the bar exam. Would like to see proof. Yeah. She says she's an attorney, Jasmine Crockett.

1:35:23You pull up these old videos of her. She's talking like Eliza Doolittle or Queen Elizabeth. She's like, how do you do? Would you like crumpets and scones? You look up Jasmine Crockett now. She's like, this mofo crock-a-lack-a-check-a-book-a-pick-a-pick-a-pick-a. What the hell happened to Jasmine Crockett? This is identity theft, okay? Identity theft. But the Democrats, okay, this is why I can't stand the Democrats. We got some characters on the right. We love Trump. We've got big personalities. But the Democrats are a bunch of overgrown theater kids. They don't want to work. They want to twerk and post dancing videos and sing.

1:35:56And the Democrats in DC, okay, they're always breaking into song on the Capitol steps. Yes. They're running and dancing. They remind me of that show Glee. Remember that show Glee where they're running and singing and dancing and there's no plot, that is the Democrat Party today. The Rapid Response Choir. Yes, exactly. Nothing terrifies Trump more than the Rapid Response Choir. No, and you've got all these beta males like Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries and Cory Booker. It's just beta male, beta male, beta male. Speaking of Cory Booker, what did the gays say about Cory Booker? Well, my lawyer has told me not to opine on that tonight.

1:36:30He was knocking on my dressing room door. Remember those engagement photos that hit of him and his fiancée? We're joyful. We're definitely really in love. I was going to say, they look like Michelle and Barack's engagement photos, so maybe it's true love. Unclear. All right, so I did read in my avid following of Spot On that you are really happy for George Clooney, who has found Italy just too tough an environment in which to raise his children at Lake Como is really unfortunate, I guess, and now has moved to France because he wants his kids to grow up in a place that's not obsessed with celebrity culture.

1:37:14Absolutely, Megan. And I know this will resonate with a lot of folks in the audience tonight, people in Texas, Arizona, Florida, they talk about this all the time. These liberals in states like California, they vote for every Democratic candidate. They shill for Gavin Newsom, Kamala Harris, the second those policies come home to roost and they've got homelessness and crime running amok on the streets, they flee. They move to red states and then they bring their policies to the red states. You're fleeing these blue states to come to red states and you're bringing the same policies. We've had it.

1:37:43Okay. We've had it. And that's with George Clooney as well. Completely agree. He's such a charlatan. He's dying to be a journalist. He's not a journalist. He's got a lot of thoughts about journalism. He of the left. He wants to be hailed as a hero because he wrote that one op-ed telling Joe Biden to drop out after the debate when we all knew he was totally infirm. He's like, aha, I have a big reveal for you. We're like, we already saw the end of this movie. No, Megan, these Democrats got kudos and bona fides for saying, you know, Joe Biden might be in decline. And this is like fall of 2024. The Mars rover could see that Joe Biden was in decline.

1:38:15Okay. Like these Democrats are writing op-eds. Y 'all are so brave. Oh, you're just so brave calling out Joe Biden. I'm like, the guy is non-compos mentis. He's walking off into bushes, we can see with our own eyes what's happening. Yes, we did not need George Clooney's op-ed. Now, the one person I think it would be the worst, I mean, like, I would work for Katie Porter before I'd work for this person, has to be Meghan Markle. She literally just lost her 10th head of publicity in, I think it's three years since she opened her little as ever business or whatever she's calling it these days. She cannot keep a staff.

1:38:55All of the people writing bios on her talk about what a nightmare she is, how nasty she is. She's smart enough not to get caught on camera. Get out of there, you fucking bitch! She's smart enough not to do that like Katie Porter. But she's apparently even meaner than her because she cannot keep anyone in her employ. And she continues to try to mislead us into believing she's got this Netflix series deal, even though season two was a fake. It was just an extension of season one that she tried to spin as a second season. and now she's trying to spin what's been changed into like, and we want a third season into, we'll take a first look as though that's like a victory, like a promotion.

1:39:30No, first look is like, you can tell them that we've made you a first look deal. No, Meghan Markle, these two little hucksters over in Montecito, I cannot stand them, okay? I call her the Duchess of Scamalot, the Duchess of White Castle, and my thing with Meghan Markle is this. She is still dining out on her Royal Highness title. She's been gone six years. You know what I'm saying? She's still dining out to sell her jams, jellies, and dog biscuits, and whatever other crap she's selling. But my thing with Meghan Markle is this. I gave her the benefit of the doubt. There are so many of us who are excited this American girl is going to marry this ginger prince, the most eligible bachelor on earth.

1:40:07She goes in there. She can't stand it but more than six months. They abscond to the U.S. and in the Queen's final dying days, what does she do? She goes and accuses them all of racism. She shanks them. She stabs them in the back and they welcomed her with open arms. So I will never respect Meghan Markle for that. That's not how you treat people who welcomed you with open arms. It gave you a life and a career. Come on. She's not a good person. How long do we give that marriage? Oh God, maybe 45 more minutes. We'll check after the show. It's not going to be long. All right. So tell us a little bit about you, Link, because your political rise has been rapid and really impressive.

1:40:44And it was because the RFKJ campaign found you, right? It was your own talents that got you noticed. Well, thank you. And can I just say, I'm on stage with Megyn Kelly right now. This is really cool.

1:40:57I was on her show the first time one year ago this month, okay? And they passed on me. Megyn might not even know this. I had people reaching out. Hey, you guys should have Link. I would send cold emails. I said, if we can meet, we will hit it off. So be tenacious people out there. Because now I'm on the tour. I did not know that. So I know that obviously you were Miss Arizona. Hello. Nicely done. Very, very top selection. And that you were a businesswoman in New York when you first got interested in Turning Point. So what were you doing in New York? So to go back a little bit further, I mean, right now, First and foremost, I'm a daughter to the king, the most high.

1:41:41That's the most important title, if you will. And my husband, in August, before all this happened, he had an event where he had some donors at. And one of the first questions they asked was, God forbid if something happens to you, what would happen next to Turning Point? And Charlie made a really interesting point. He said companies, you know, example, Apple, Macintosh. He said their founder led. He said, but what I have built is, will one day, if I'm not around, be vision-led? And he had made mention at the end, like, you know, Erica will do a great job running it. And when I watched that video this week, it really put into perspective my youth and what I went through growing up and what I witnessed, you know, my mom having her own company and being a single mother and watching her be the blueprint of, you know, I'm not afraid of raising my children alone because I saw my mom do that.

1:43:07I'm not afraid of being a CEO because I saw my mom do that. The only thing that I fear to be fully transparent with you is being out of the alignment of God's will because I feel like that is a very dangerous position to be in. And so for me, growing up, when I was in New York, it was one of those moments where I really trusted God. That's where I needed to be. I prayed on it at first because originally I was living in L.A. And I said, Lord, if this is where you need me to be, make it so clear. Bought a one-way ticket to New York. One suitcase, my mom was like, what are you going to do when you're there?

1:43:46I was like, I'll figure it out once I get there. I just know that's where the Lord needs me. and so many people questioned that. They said, you're such a strong Christian. Why would you go to such a dark city? And I said, the more that you take the light out of a dark place, the darker it gets. So that's where I'm going. And I was there. Yeah, but when I moved to New York, my brother said, why would you want to move to New York? And I said, it's the big city of dreams. And he said, scary, nasty, wake up in the middle of the night screaming dreams. So I get it. Right. So you were working in New York for a while, and then you went back to Arizona to apply for the Turning Point job?

1:44:25So I was in New York. I was casting director. I was assigned with a modeling agency. I had just gotten my real estate license three months prior to meeting Charlie. And rewind a little bit. I went to Turning Point's office opening for their first building. and Tyler, he runs Turning Point Action now, and he said, you need to meet the CEO. I said, okay, great. Met him very quickly, shook his hand, said, hi, nice to meet you. Neither of us thought anything of it. Looking back now, he apparently sat down with Tyler and said, we need to hire, or Tyler said, we need to hire her, and he goes, mm-hmm, and he's like, where does she live?

1:45:15And Tyler said, New York. He's like, okay, I'm going to have a Fox News hit, and then I'm going to sit down with her and interview her in New York. So, lo and behold, he comes to Manhattan. And I thought, I was so career-minded. My mother raised me to, and this is why I can relate a lot to the Manhattan mindset of a lot of young women, where it's career oriented. Because my mom used to tell me, don't feel like you need to rely on a man for life and work. And so my mindset, my healthy marriage example was my grandparents. But my mindset was career, career, career. When I met Charlie, the only reason I sat down with him because I thought it was a consulting position for work.

1:46:12I was not thinking, I did not date in Manhattan. I saw the pits of hell of the dating pool through my roommates and I was not touching that with any longest pole you can imagine. I stayed far away from the dating pool in Manhattan. So I viewed it as obviously the job interview that it was supposed to be and the Lord knew I just, Charlie in some way, similar to how he sees things in a lot of people, in some way beautifully saved me from a huge mistake of putting career over family and career over husband. Because it's easy to do as a female when you see bright lights, big city. But the Lord used him.

1:47:05The Lord used him. How long did it take you to fall in love with him? That's the funny thing. It's so interesting because when we were sitting there, I fell in love with how brilliant he was to be able to articulate what he believed in. And when he said, I'm not going to hire you, I'm going to date you, I knew that was the Lord because there were so many times where I said that my future husband that's out there, he will literally, it will be, the only reason why I look up is because the Lord says to look up and that was something to look up to when someone's like, I'm going to date you. And so I just, but honestly, it was the constant consistency of I'm here for you.

1:47:58Um, you know, the little texts in the morning and then it just continued to grow in a beautiful way. So yes, love at first sight. Yes, obviously. But I, again, my mindset wasn't there. His was so that you think of it, you're in an interview, you have to totally do a one 80 of a mindset. But I, um, honestly where like the depths of the love started was when we were playing basketball together at the gym, just shooting around together. By the time we saw that video where he introduced you as his fiance, and the two of you were staring at each other. Oh, I was obsessed. I'm still obsessed with him.

1:48:33You could not break your gaze. I mean, that's, I think as the kids would say, hashtag goals for virtually everybody who wants love in their life. So you did get married. Yes. You have two kids. Two precious babies. And you told me this in private, but how many kids did you guys want to have? We wanted to have four. Yeah. And I was praying to God that I was pregnant when he got murdered. Oh, wow. I thought of that once. Just like whether it was meant to be or whether we'd get news like that. I was like, oh, goodness, that would be the ultimate blessing out of this catastrophe. so now when I see young couples I tell them please don't put it off especially if you're a young woman don't put it off you can always have a career you can always go back to work you can never just go back to having children and they grow so fast and so quickly but I just I was praying And both of us were.

1:49:46We were really excited to just expand our family. Thank God you have the two. I know. Thank God. Boy and girl. I know. One day they'll find out. Right now they're just little loves. And one day they'll find out that they're Charlie Kirk's children. And they'll know what that means.

1:50:11so I wanted to ask you Erica because you are so faithful whether you had any premonition that something was going to happen to Charlie I really do see you as connected more so than the rest of us to God and I just wondered did you have any sort of a feeling we always we see the thing is is that i guess we just operate differently we always knew there were threats we always knew that there were people out there that hated us with deep deep passion of hate but it didn't scare us never he was never afraid of that neither was i obviously we protect our children you know we don't show their faces on the internet so that's very intentional, but I think we lived our life in such a way where if that was our last day, it was our last day.

1:51:10Like we always lived as if it was the last day. That's why Charlie's speeches were so good because he didn't know if that was going to be his last speech. and he was so intentional about every word. Every word had a meaning. And every speech had a connection point for the students and for whoever he was speaking to. And that's why he never missed the opportunity to weave the gospel into what he was saying. Yes, that's what made him so much more powerful than the rest of us. If you see the difference between Charlie Kirk and many of the right-wing pundits or commentators, it's that he supercharged the message that the rest of us were saying with biblical references, with faith-based wisdom, which made it ten times more powerful.

1:52:00And people knew it. It's one of the things we're all missing right now. But to answer your question, we always knew there were threats. We always knew that that could be a possibility. but obviously you know but we never lived in fear of when that day would be we just trusted the Lord every day you know now of course in the wake of Charlie's death many are living under threat the nutcases have gotten very loud and emboldened and I just wonder whether it was the kind of threat environment that you needed to actually worry that something could happen? Or was it just the din of like, there are haters out there, you get these nutcase letters sometimes, you know?

1:52:49Was it something like, no, it's actually getting really serious and we need to worry? Or was it just the din of like, mm? No, I mean, you would see, obviously leading up to that, there was several shootings, there was several individuals with guns on campus. So you knew that the threat was there and things were starting to heat up. but again, it wasn't anything that, um, you know, you would think any different. No, no. I know that the morning he died, he went back into your room. He had slept in your daughter's room because he got up in the middle of the night and she got up in the middle of the night.

1:53:24There was a switcheroo. They all got snacks. We've all been there. Yeah. But he came back into your room and he got his necklace and he got his wedding ring, right? And his necklace had a cross on it and it had St. Michael's medal. Yeah. I wear it every day. Wow Oh it's so beautiful And Erica Help me understand I genuinely don't understand I've asked Frank Turek this I've asked everyone I can ask this question I don't understand how you can be wearing your cross And your St. Michael's medal And be shot to death I feel as Charlie felt That that's armor You know we wear that to protect us And we believe God will protect us How have you squared that?

1:54:13the Lord is so powerful and we're not meant to understand all of his ways but there's mercy in that knowing that God uses evil for good I don't know what exactly that is but I do know that the Lord will use it and if that means revival the Lord I told people I said I have never found more comfort in the statement thy will be done explain that why because it shows that control is an absolute illusion the Lord knows the number of hairs on our head and he knows the number of our days and that's why Charlie was so intentional of making sure everyone knew that their role in life was so important and that you guys are all the missing puzzle piece to to this whole story And we used to explain it when we would have dinner sometimes about how when you look at a tapestry, on one side you see all of these hanging threads.

1:55:35It doesn't make any sense. They're all different colored threads all over the place. But when you turn that tapestry around, you see how beautifully woven together and how intentional every thread is to that tapestry. and yes I fully believe that you put on the full armor of God every single day I mean henceforth all of my bracelets and rings like everything has meaning to me and that's why I always wear my bracelets always wear my rings always wear my necklaces and it's one of those things where we will never understand God's ways fully we're not meant to We wouldn't be, our mortal brains would not be able to even compute what he has designed and put together.

1:56:30But what I do know is that... the Lord spoke through Charlie in so many ways, and I still feel so deeply connected to him. and I know that the Lord used such evil to bring about something that will eventually come to good. It's already started. I've seen it.

1:57:07I am a big believer in signs. You know, I think when you lose somebody if you ask for a sign, do you guys believe in signs? Have you gotten any from him? You know, it's so interesting. When we first started dating, this is personal, but I share it only because maybe it'll be a sign for you to know that Charlie's with you in something. When we first started dating, we would walk, we were walking to dinner one night, and this happened a lot. The lights would start to flicker. And he'd look up at the light and be like, you know, it's so weird, this happens to me a lot. And I was like, really? And he's like, yeah.

1:57:47So our whole dating and whole marriage, anytime we'd be a room and a light started to flicker, he would just look at me and wink. It was like our little thing. It's power. Yeah. It's a total frequency thing. And so the night everything happened when we were in Utah, I was in a hotel room by myself in the bedroom portion by myself. and the bathroom light was on and it just was a strobe light all night just and I was like part of me couldn't sleep because it was a strobe light the other part of me couldn't sleep because of how just my world has just crumbled and the other part of me couldn't sleep because I was like baby I feel you I know you're here so that was you know some signs but another sign too is just my daughter, you know, just saying little things.

1:58:38And like, okay, I see you. Is she starting to get it?

1:58:47I, yes and no. I, we talk, I make, we talk about heaven. I make it really exciting. I tell her, daddy had so much fun today. Everyone who has written letters and sent gifts to my children, thank you. I tell her, my son, he's only a year and a half, but I tell both of them, Daddy is telling all of his friends to send you gifts and letters. And, you know, Daddy is orchestrating from heaven to make sure that you always feel so loved. And the other day she was like, tell me about Daddy's day in heaven. We talk about that at night. And then sometimes I'll say, well, tell me what you think he did in heaven today.

1:59:32and I just try to make it exciting because it is, it is, heaven is, heaven's our home. And so I just want her to know that daddy is having so much fun and building a place for her and our family in heaven. How do you, yeah.

2:00:01I know that you haven't watched the video and you shouldn't watch the video and you don't want the kids to watch the video but how are you going to handle it when they get older, Erica and they start to learn about the haters because there does have to come a time where that needs to be put in the proper perspective Charlie was so tough It was hard to get him rattled about these attacks. But, and I can speak to this, having my own children, two of whom are backstage. You know, there comes a time where you have to sort of help your kids understand the terrible negative messages that are out there about someone they deeply love.

2:00:42Have you thought about that at all? Like how are you going to walk them into that? You know, I first and foremost want my children to have a childhood. So that's another reason why I don't put them on the Internet. It's another reason why I don't expose them to certain screen time. I've said it before, some of the shows, the only shows I would watch is Charlie, Bob Ross, because he has a very nap-inducing voice. And then, you know, every now and then it would be some of Charlie's events. but I want them to be children first and I want to teach them so much about God and Jesus so that when they do get older and they do see the hate they also understand how much good is still out there and they also understand that they could be the antidote to the evil and they can pray for those people and not be afraid I'd never want them to be afraid But I want them to also see that that evil is because they or their parents or their loved ones is actually doing something to make a difference.

2:01:56Because if you're not getting attacked or slandered or whatever else out there, you're just looking a lot like the rest of the world. And I want them to know that that's okay. hey, you know, I have been called so many names. I have been slandered, and none of that means anything to me. It's all just noise. It's really been crazy. No, it's unbelievable. Watching people turn on you has been one of the most unexpected, strange, terrible things since you died. And I know you get this because you have a thick skin and a soft heart. the thing is is that the more that people and it gets outlandish more and more crazy as time goes on because there's just a void that apparently needs to be filled but I'm okay with the world not understanding me I'm okay with that I'm okay with with they you know I I don't want to look like the world.

2:03:03We're, as Christians, we're called to be in the world, not of it. And if they could understand me, then I'm not doing something right. That's well said.

2:03:16Forgive me. Did you see people didn't understand the hug that you and JD had? They went to the weirdest places, Erica. Oh my gosh. You guys, please. So for those of you who know me, I never, I, I'm a very, I love, I hug is like, whoever is like hating on a hug needs a hug themselves. I will give you a free hug anytime you want to hug. My love language is touch if you will, but seriously that hug. So I will give you a play by play walking. They just played the emotional video. I'm walking over. He's walking over. I'm starting to cry. He says, he's so proud of you. And I say, God bless you. And I touched the back of his head.

2:04:03Anyone who I've hugged that I have touched the back of your head when I hug you, I always say, God bless you. That's just me. If you want to take that out of context, go right ahead. Again, that to me shows that you need a hug more than anyone else. So if anyone... They were acting like you touched the back of his ass. I feel like I wouldn't get as much hate if I did that versus... But no, seriously, so now when I go and hug people, I'll bring them back in and be like, I obviously didn't give you the right hug. Like, come, let me touch the back of your head. I don't know what to do with my hands.

2:04:37Can't touch the head. What can I touch? I know. Not me. I'm always like, if you touch the back of my head, I'm like, oh, she's feeling the extensions. Damn. That's another thing. People think my hair is fake. It is very real. My hairstylist told me your hair is real. She was like, oh, no, that's all real. This is real. I've had some women. How is it real? They, like, come and touch the back of my head. I'm like, what are you doing here? They're feeling for the weave. It's not coming out. Yeah. They're patting the weave. I know. But anyway, so. How is that real? Have you just been growing it out your whole life?

2:05:10We want to know. My mother. Okay, so I loved sports growing up. I started playing basketball when I was five. My first coach, he was Charles Barkley, of all people, which is amazing to have as your five-year-old YMCA coach. Good to see you with your little Charles Barkley doll. No, it was great. He's an awesome man. His daughter was a dear friend. And so I loved sports. and my mom, I was swimming all the time. I was always super active. And since my mom worked, I was always at the Boys and Girls Club, always. And I was the last kid to get picked up from the Boys and Girls Club every single day.

2:05:56And the poor counselor or whatever you want to call him that had to stand with me waiting for my mom to pick me up every day. I loved sports. I loved basketball so much. It was such a good escape for me as a child. and I remember my hair from swimming was so ratted because I have very coarse hair and my mom hated combing my hair. And so her solution was a bowl cut straight across, traumatizing. To this point, my hairdresser knows when we get a trim, it is literally like a fraction of my hair. I will never have hair shorter than my shoulders Charlie loved my hair though he just he loved how long it was so what you're saying is you have long thick coarse hair that takes you a while to grow out and take care of and you're not black or named Michelle Obama which is fascinating that can happen with all the conspiracy theories out there I'm not going to touch that one either hopefully you haven't been paying too much attention to the news cycle but they know what I'm talking about No, but my hair, to get back to that, is something that I just, I'm not going to cut it.

2:07:15I'm not going to, you know. Charlie liked it long. He liked it. He liked it long, and here we are. But my mom, if you ask my mom, she'll tell you, it's when she grew up from the standpoint of a Lebanese-Italian background, and you're supposed to shave your kid's head when they're two, and then it's supposed to grow back really thick. after that. I was a product of the shaved head. So if you would like to try that on your two-year-old unsolicited advice, does it work on the 55 year old? I have no idea. You guys tell me, I don't know. I ain't going to try. You know, you raised the issue of the girls.

2:07:50If you see us shaved head by December, you know why. Oh yeah. We all look like Britney Spears. The headline, well, they went full skinhead. Right. Yeah. And are listening to Nick Quintus. That's the last thing. That'll be. Yeah. No. It's a no. Yeah. While we're on the subject, because you really were a very strong female athlete, can I ask you your position on that? No, yeah, totally. Because this is obviously a dominant thing. We had Megan Rapinoe in the news just this week saying people don't really mean it. They don't actually have an objection to men playing in women's sports. They're just using it as an issue.

2:08:23She made all her money. She's sitting pretty. But she wants your daughter to play against boys. Your thoughts on it?

2:08:32So, well, you can take this as a twofold. So if you're looking at it from the sports angle, where you're playing up against men, I mean, I know this has been said before, but then what's the point of female sports? But to me, being an addict, I played in college, I worked so hard for that scholarship. I knew my strengths as a point guard. I hated driving the lane, always. I always shot the three. That was like my thing. I'm not driving to have someone who's like 6 '7", just pat, this is not happening. Oh, she said it.

2:09:18So, for me, sports has a very special place in my heart, But as a mom now and watching my daughter compete, it's just, I know they say, you know, life isn't fair. I get that. Life's not fair. But there's certain things that are really special. And women's sports is one of them. And it's really, some people look down on it. Some people think it's not it. But, you know, those girls have worked so hard for their position. And to have it taken away from them by someone who couldn't rank in their own sport and field, it's demoralizing. And it also weighs on the whole topic of being a woman, being proud to be a woman, being proud to be a strong female athlete.

2:10:16And I wouldn't want that taken away from anybody. That's right, having the glorious chance of accomplishment. I mean, we'll never win if we're playing against biological boys. We'll never have that glorious feeling of crossing the finish line first or being the one who has the game-winning shot because it's always going to go to a man. It's just one of the basic things. We always talk about the unfairness of it and the safety of it, but just think about that, like the glorious feeling of winning, which I never had because I wasn't an athlete. But you had it. I don't know. I feel like politics somewhat is form of an athletic feat.

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2:13:25Take responsibility. Protect your future. Visit Burna.com right now or your local sportsman's warehouse. That's B-Y-R-N-A.com or your local sportsman's warehouse. Visit now and be prepared to defend. I want to ask you about the book that you're holding in your hand. Yes, Charlie's book. I took the dust cover off because I carry his book everywhere. Stop in the name of God. It's coming out soon. Charlie's coming out with a book. Yeah. He's coming out with a book. Stop in the name of God, which is a great title. Stop in the name of God. And what is it about? Took him a year and a half to write it.

2:13:59And this book, I mean, when I'm reading it, I'm like, I did not even know you knew that. It is so powerful. Overarching theme of it is the power of honoring the Sabbath and the importance of rest. And reading this, and I even brought one of his journals with me to read out of it, because the thing that's so interesting about reading this book and reading this journal, and I know a lot of you that are Christians will understand this. They tell you that when you read the Bible, it's the living word of God, and it is. And you see the Lord in technicolor when you read the Bible and you actually understand those words.

2:14:44And so for me, reading Charlie's journals and reading this book, it's like he's, I mean, he's still, he's present with the Lord, but it feels like he's still fully here. And that's what's so powerful about this book. And I watched him as a wife completely transform into an already, I mean, he was already amazing and incredible, but I totally elevated him when he was honoring the Sabbath and when he really took that seriously, that time to rest seriously. And I just can't help but things like everything and to go to your point of signs I don't think anything is by coincidence but to have this be his last book and to him totally master what it means to rest with the Lord it's all for us full circle now because it's the ultimate Sabbath where he is right now when did you get to read it when yeah as much as I can driving into the office or I mean was it written in its entirety before Charlie died?

2:15:55Yes. Yes, it was. He finished writing this, I believe, in June or July of this year. So you had read it? But to read it in a book format and not an email format that he would send me is night and day difference. What are the pages that are folded over? All of them are amazing, but the one that I wanted to read was the part about sleeping because Charlie his adrenaline was always going and it was very hard for him to turn his brain off at night. Henceforth, snacks at like 2 a.m. Did you tell me olives and bananas? Not together. But he was like even snacking in a healthy manner. Almonds, yeah. Also, we do have to discuss the fact that you said he only had mint chocolate chip ice cream once a year.

2:16:45Twice. Fourth of July and his birthday. And no ice cream any other day? His self-control and self-discipline was phenomenal. And to the point, too, where when I was pregnant, 70 % of the reason why no one saw me when I was pregnant was because of this situation. The other 30 % was because I just was with my babies. But 70 % of it was, I'm really hungry. I think, should I have a milkshake? Baby, get that milkshake. But I don't know if I should have that milkshake. You need the milkshake. I'm going to go and get you that milkshake. Do you want a hot fudge sundae, too? I'm going to get the In-N-Out burger.

2:17:22No questions. I'll be right back. Animal style. So he'd come home. He loved it because he loved driving around at night. So he'd come home with the In-N-Out burger, animal style, protein style, whatever, mixed in with the hot fudge sundae, the chocolate shake. And he would be so excited to give it to me and watch me eat it. But that was because he was living vicariously through me. So no joke. I got to like 190 pounds. I was like, I am literally going to weigh more than you by the end of this pregnancy. see. And he'd be like, baby, you look great. You don't worry about that. That's just baby weight.

2:17:54I mean, granted it does go away. It takes a lot of work. He's sitting there eating his olives? No, no. He's just watching me. And I'm like, I will enjoy this hot fudge sundae while you wish that you could have. But he was so self-disciplined and he was so good about eating. He was, biohacking was his love language of being healthy, eating clean. He could not operate on fast food the way that he was in general. Like that's why he never drank. That's why he never It wasn't from a motive of I'm better than whoever. It was from the motive of I need to operate as if I'm going to war every single day, and I can't operate on this type of food.

2:18:33Speaking of the sleep, that's very... Right. So the sleep was important because I was like, he loved his sleep. And something that I was very intentional about was when he came home, I would always let him sleep in, always, on the weekends. I would take the kids, go for a walk, whatever it took, and I would want him to wake up when it was time to wake up because I knew how important rest was for him. And so when I read this in the book, it was on my heart to share it with you because the title of it says, Jesus Slept, Elijah Slept, and So Can You. And he said, so start tonight, close the laptop, power down the phone, let the dishes wait, pull the shades, dim the lights, and give your body permission to do what it was created to do, to rest.

2:19:21Let your bed become an altar of trust as your head touches the pillow and whisper to God, I release it all to you. You don't need to check one more email. You don't need to prove anything. You don't need to carry the weight of the world. It already has a savior, and it's not you. Sleep is not a distraction from your purpose. It is part of your purpose. It is a sacred rhythm that restores your mind, heals your body, and quiets your soul. The Sabbath is your weekly reminder that you are not a machine. You are a beloved child. And children sleep well when they know their father is near. So go ahead, embrace the gift.

2:20:01Make your Sabbath a day not just of rest but of sleep. deep, joyful, and replenishing sleep. You're allowed. And more than that, you're invited. Rest isn't weakness. It's worship. And tomorrow will be better because you trusted God enough to rest today. Wow. He was keeping the Sabbath. He was. So with that, since today is his Sabbath, I wanted to read to you from his journal. Oh, wow. Is that it right there? Yeah. Wow. in his handwriting, a note that he wrote to himself to honor the Sabbath. He said, Dear Lord, thank you for a wonderful week. Thank you for your endless protection and provision.

2:20:53Father God, thank you for your mercy and grace. Lord, I did better this week despite the challenges of travel. I miss my wife. It's hard to be away from her for a few days. Thank you for giving us a roadmap of what it means to be obedient and put Christ first. Lord, I have realized the following. The battle against the mind is Satan's playground. He dwells and prowls to destroy. The more in alignment we walk in your command and teachings, the more joy and blessing we experience. Lord, thank you for showing us the way, the truth, and the life. Thank you for blessing our organization. I pray for resolution amongst the divides that Satan is attempting.

2:21:46Lord, we pray for blessing for the people who feel they have been wronged. Father God, we ask for your guidance, wisdom, and direction, your comfort and your healing.

2:22:03we love you Lord thank you for another Sabbath CK wow

2:22:18Erica I know you touched on it earlier but I one of the reactions I have to hearing that is like, I get angry. How can that man have been taken? How, he was all goodness. The left who are bastardizing his memory have no idea what they're talking about. Charlie was all goodness. I know we can't understand God's plan, but have you had bouts of anger? You know, I think about what the kids are going to miss, what you got gypped out of, what poor Charlie now is going to miss. and I feel angry. Sadness, of course, obviously, but yes, against the accused shooter, but just, I know you don't ever feel angry against God, but I kind of do.

2:23:09I mean, how do you make sense of that? And do you have any anger when you think about it? Not towards the Lord, but in general. The enemy would love for me to be angry. He would love it. He would love it.

2:23:28because it would distract me from building what Charlie entrusted to me, raising our babies, turning point, being there for the team, being there for what the future holds. And if I had any amount of anger in my heart and spirit, the Lord would not be able to use me. And every single day, just how Charlie did, stood on stage, he would say, here I am, Lord, use me. And if I had that anger in my heart, that foothold from the enemy, he wouldn't be able to. I know at Charlie's memorial, right across the way here, there was that extraordinary moment where you forgave his accused killer. And I mean, I looked and I said, that's the most powerful, strongest thing I've ever seen anybody do in my life.

2:24:26And then somebody helped me understand because I thought I could never do it. I could never do it. And somebody said to me, forgiveness is an action, not an emotion. And I was like, okay, that's getting me closer to feeling like I could do it. If I don't actually have to feel loving in my heart toward the person. But I wonder, like, how do you, if you could say something to him, like if you say something to his parents, like what would it be? Would it be anger? Would it be sympathy? What would it be? That's a good question. It wouldn't be, it wouldn't be, it wouldn't be sympathy. It wouldn't be anger.

2:25:21how do you put this? Anything that I could ever wish upon him or that family

2:25:35would pale in comparison of the justice of God. And so I would look at them

2:25:48almost like, I'm so glad I'm not you. I know. I am so glad I'm not you. And I pray that, you know, you figure out a way to be right with the Lord, but our God is sovereign, but he's also very just. We serve a very just-filled God.

2:26:21Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear. Thank you.