Colin Kaepernick: In His Own Words

27:38Ben Meiselas:But let's start with the first piece over there. Yeah. I have had a lot of those conversations directly with players. And I think the piece that comes to mind here is players need to be able to take collective action. When you see an issue and you know it exists and when you want to go out and address it, you have to take action against that. Um, it, if you have integrity, if you are the person that you say you are, um, if you are a person that wants to work to the benefit of everyone collectively and not just your own self-interest, you should be taking action right now. Now, you should organize around that because the part that the ownership class does not want you to understand or fully appreciate, which is why they take targeted actions like the ones they took against me and in the past have taken against others, is they don't want you to realize the power that you collectively have.

28:52We'll just take the NFL as an example here. The NFL is approximately 70 % black. If the players and the black players in the NFL collectively said, we are not stepping on the field until you address this list of issues. And this could be within the NFL. It could be within the political side. You would see an ownership class collectively organized to solve that issue immediately. because it directly impacts their bottom line. You as players are their product or the product on the field. They want you to think that you're their product. You are the product stepping on the field. Now, being in that position gives you a tremendous amount of leverage, tremendous amount of power and control.

29:50It hasn't been seized. And for players, I think understanding this, that same message that they have tried to send down to players by colluding and blackballing myself and others, then becomes a message that you can send back to them that, no, we're not going to let you wield that power against us. So I think there has to be this moment of taking action. I think there has to be a moment of organizing to make sure that that that ownership class is taking the actions that you actually want as players because you have the power to do so. I think that also exists when we go down to the NIL side. We saw this.

30:39I believe it was at Missouri. we saw I believe it was the president there had spoken out taking actions that the players didn't agree with the players boycotted didn't step on the field we saw that president of the university very quickly removed so when you start touching the financial structure and power structure you will see them move and move quickly and move mountains to be able to resolve that because they don't want that power to continue to be utilized by the players and by the working class.

31:20Ben Meiselas:You know, with NIL as well, you know, it has, I think, this double-edged sword. And the one part, it's empowering, getting paid. and rightfully so because there were institutions making billions of dollars off the back of athletes who are not getting compensated for it. Also, though, on the flip side, which we've seen, and perhaps flip side is not the right word, but another consideration is, well, now you have people right out of high school who are getting lots of money and that could make them subject to unscrupulous actors in their lives, and they're very young, and they may not have some of these life experiences to say, well, how do I contend with it?

32:08Ben Meiselas:And it also puts them, though, in a moneyed power structure right away to start being pulled by these moneyed interests by oligarchs who start buying players and buying teams and treating it as a commodity, as property, as I'm going to make a super team and start finding high school students and start giving money and treating it like that. And so what do you think about that? How do people build the resiliency to that, especially if they're coming out of high, I mean, you remember coming out of high school, you know, and being 17, 18 years old. And all of a sudden, how do you deal with, you know, the head of a major, a billionaire who's run all these things, who's an alumni of university of whatever, who says, you know what?

32:58Ben Meiselas:I'm going to give you$4 million a year, but you got it, but you got to do this, this, this, and this. And you go$4 million a year. Oh my gosh. How do you deal with that? Yeah. Well, I would say it is a good problem for players to have to navigate. One, to be successful at that level that their talents are valued and how they show up is valued in that way. What it also makes me think of is as NIL has progressed, we also need stronger infrastructure for our players to be able to have the right supports in place, whether that is navigating negotiations of deals, whether that is the financial support after they get those dollars, making sure that they're handling that responsibility because you have players that are 17, 18 years old that are walking into life-changing money and what can be generational money for them.

34:01And if they have the right support and structures there, that sets them up to be able to utilize that and benefit from that long-term. To your point on navigating some of the oligarchy and the influences there, I think that's where the preparation for athletes has to be much better because I didn't have to really navigate that until I was in the NFL, 23, 24 years old, still young, but have more experience. And it was still difficult to navigate because you don't truly learn people's interests and the game that they are playing and what they're trying to accomplish. In many ways, until you go through it multiple times, and ultimately you probably get burned in that process.

34:58And that's where the learning experiences come as far as how they approach it. So I think a lot more education to be done, a lot more support to be put in place to make sure that as they're getting these dollars, they also aren't being exploited in the process.

35:13Ben Meiselas:Colin, we talked about co-opting earlier in this interview. And one of the ways I think Trump co-ops is he brings these sports teams to the White House and he uses them as propaganda press conferences. And in the past, we've seen sports teams show up at the White House. But usually the president says nonpolitical things and hands them, thanks them, maybe gives them, you know, something for showing up to the White House, takes a photo. We're used to that. We've seen that before. That's not rare. We can debate that. That's what's happened. The difference here, though, is we'll see a team like Indiana win the national championship, and then they'll be there in front of Trump, and he'll be talking about his agenda, his propaganda, his hateful and venomous speech.

36:04Ben Meiselas:And then you have the players behind him. You have Coach Signetti behind him. And, you know, I want to zoom in on the Indiana one for a second because, you know, I would watch college football and I would see Coach Signetti of Indiana as this no-nonsense disciplinarian guy who said, I mold young boys into men and this is how I teach them how to behave. I watched him standing next to Trump. Trump didn't even know who he was. Trump didn't even take the time to say, this is Signetti. You know, this is who the Trump's like, where's Signetti? Signetti, you know, and then the guy was there in that moment, kind of laughing off all of the ridiculous, hateful, demented kind of stuff that Trump said.

36:51Ben Meiselas:And to me, it was like Signetti, like, you know, you may be a great football coach or whatever. But in that moment right there, that's kind of your legacy is you standing next to him with the players who you've boasted about molding into men. But the behavior that we saw right there to me undercuts everything you taught and does generational damage to young men in a way that you have now contributed to the problem. And it's like, I look at the guy very differently right now. So I wonder what your take is on those moments. The biggest takeaway I have in those moments is by going, you are showing that you support the actions and the behavior.

37:34Whether you explicitly say that or not, or whether you try to approach it from, well, we're just going there to celebrate because it's been done in the past. by showing up, you are showing a level of alignment and agreement with where the administration is going and what they're doing and the actions that they're taking. And you are also in many ways putting, in this instance, young men in college in the crosshairs of that, of saying, oh, well, you align with this now as well. And they're going to have to go back and answer questions around that. And the flip side of that is if players are in a position and they say, well, I'm not going to go, well, are you going to pull their scholarship?

38:22Are they going to be targeted on the back end? What are the repercussions that go along with that? So you're putting players in a very difficult position. And for the players who don't agree with it, it's difficult to see a space where they win. They either sit with their moral beliefs, they take action, say, I'm not going, which likely leads to repercussions on the back end. Or they show up and they end up in a position where it looks like they are cosigning what the administration is doing.

38:59Ben Meiselas:Colin, talk more about the perilous fight and grounding movements in the people, because the people were always your focus. I was actually never about the politics at all. I mean, because to me, when you fight for the people, the politics should find you. You shouldn't be finding the politics. And I think one of the problems that we have is when you're searching for, you know, the person who's going to save you or this person, you're chasing egos. And egos are going to let you down. And, you know, the emphasis that you always had was listening. And so I think about your creation of Know Your Rights Camp, and I think about initiatives that you've done in Know Your Rights Camp, just behind the scenes.

39:42Ben Meiselas:I mean, you quietly do the work. I mean, you're not out there doing big press events for these camps. I've been to them. I mean, you could do big press events for the camps. They're very compelling events. But behind the scenes, quietly, you throw these events across the country where you're educating the youth, and you just do it. And you don't tell people you're really doing it and you just go and do it. The only people you tell are the local community organizations that work with you to bring the kids to the camps and to get the educational resources. And so it's an interesting kind of paradigm that oftentimes you don't get talked about a lot when you do these things because you're not out there boasting about doing these things.

40:23Ben Meiselas:So I don't know. Talk to us about that. It's an interesting dynamic that I found fascinating knowing. Yeah, it's one of the things that I think goes back to some of just leadership styles and leadership approaches. For me, whether it was on the field or building movements and doing the work on the ground is it has to be grounded in you doing the work and taking action. Going out and telling people, hey, we're doing great things without just doing the work. It rings hollow and people eventually see through that. I think the part that's most important is, to your point, going out and doing work.

41:05It only makes sense to do it if it's actually solving and addressing issues for people. And the founding of Know Your Rights Camp was actually based upon the fact of how do we make sure that black and brown kids and black and brown communities make it home safe? And that was the initial founding principle of trying to address this issue of police killing black folks. Now, as we were doing that work, obviously, we uncovered so much more that we needed to address, not just getting our community home safe, but how do we allow them to thrive, whether that's financially, technologically, through education, through health.

41:47We built all of these other components of the camp and that continued to expand and grow. That ultimately led to the autopsy initiative where we do free second autopsies that are independent for families who have lost someone within custody. That is whether police, whether they're incarcerated, whether they're in ICE detention centers, all spaces that we cover to give transparency because of the issues that we've seen with the lack of transparency within autopsies. This is also showing up with our legal defense initiative in 2020, protecting protesters, providing pro bono legal services, the COVID-19 relief fund, directly distributing resources into communities.

42:34communities again, based upon feedback that we're getting directly on the ground, communities saying, this is what we need. And this is the support that we need. And we would go out and just try to take action against that and continue to build the organization around it. So for us as an approach, like we don't want to make up problems to solve. What we need to do is be phenomenal listeners in the process. in that listening, once we have an understanding of what the issue is, then figuring out how we can go out and solve it. And then how do we, how are we able to scale that? So I think that becomes important as opposed to, Hey, I, I hope to be this political figure.

43:19And I hope people look at me a certain way. I people very quickly see through that. what stands the test of time is going out and taking actions that are to the benefit of people and doing that consistently.

43:34Ben Meiselas:You know, what was fascinating to me about being on this journey with you is a lot of people would perceive you a certain way based on what Trump or MAGA would say about you in their sphere, in their echo chamber. But when they would need the autopsy initiative and would want just transparency because they had a loved one who was killed by police and they wanted answers, they were shocked that you took their autopsy, you took their request and you said, I never even looked at what your political belief was. I didn't look at what the color of your skin was. You could be a white MAGA Republican.

44:17Ben Meiselas:You could be a black Republican. You could be a black Democrat. You could be a Hispanic. That's not what this is about. If you submit to this criteria and you want transparency, that's what we're trying to do. And I'm from a community where I've seen black and brown people killed in my communities. So that's why I'm raising attention. But just because disproportionately black and brown people are getting killed, don't think it's not going to come to you next. It's just we're first. And so we need to be united as people. And so one of the things that I observed and talk about your experience here is you had MAGA people who use the autopsy initiative, who left with a very positive view of Colin Kaepernick and said, you know what?

45:06Ben Meiselas:They were great. They were transparent. They kept me apprised of what happened. They gave me the answers that I was looking for during the most tragic time in my life. Yeah, that was probably one of the most interesting pieces is people would come in with preconceived notions. And to me, I want everybody to have justice. To your point, we're seeing this disproportionately impact black and brown communities. And we see that basically across everything. But in this instance of trying to address this issue of transparency within police killings around cause of death, and part of what launched the autopsy initiative was some of your past work in Bakersfield, where we saw the sheriff was also the coroner.

45:59So you have the same police department that has done the killing, also ruling what the cause of death is. So there's an inherent conflict of interest within that. And in providing transparency, everyone should have that. and we have taken those actions and to your point, we've seen this with MAGA Republicans coming in using the program and being like this is just not what I expected from you and to me, I hope it speaks to people in a sense of while we may have different political beliefs I still believe you should have justice if you have someone who is wrongfully killed, it doesn't matter if you're a MAGA Republican to me, you should get justice.

46:48You should have transparency and clarity there. And that's how we approach the work that we're doing. We obviously have a focus on black and brown communities again because it disproportionately happens there. But the programs are open to everybody. We need people to understand what is happening. We need systems to change. We need institutions to change. We need policy to change. And that starts by doing the work on the ground in this way. And the part that's been interesting is even beyond the autopsy initiative, this has shown up over the last 10 years in a lot of areas that I didn't expect.

47:28A lot of Republicans and MAGA Republicans that previously were like, you know, when I first saw the stance you took, like, I hated you. And I've seen the work that you've done over the years. I've had more conversations. I'm more informed and have more insight now. And, man, I was wrong. And I think seeing people, again, just the consistency of doing the work and trying to do it to the benefit of people, people are realizing that, you know what, a lot of the issues that directly affect the black community and black and brown communities, actually, they touch me too in many ways. It just may not show up as significantly.

48:14And I think being able to get people to understand that this makes a better society. Like that is our end goal. And we see it show up disproportionately in where the gaps are. But being able to bridge those gaps and fill those gaps allows us all to collectively move forward in a much more effective way.

48:34Ben Meiselas:Colin, even in the heart heat of all of the Trump get the SOB off the field, you know, during the litigation, during all of that, when you and I traveled around the country together, there may have only been one minor incident where somebody said, and actually they said it respectfully. They didn't like say like, like they would, they said, Hey man, I appreciate what you're doing. I don't agree with it, but I appreciate it. You know, and I remember standing next to you with that one. I remember where it was. It was in Texas. But other than that, overwhelmingly in all of these places, people, you know, that was kind of the worst you got.

49:19Ben Meiselas:And you and I would be in stadiums and people would cheer for, I mean, in the heart of it, where if you turned on the media narrative, you would have thought you're like the most hated guy in the world. And when we went out into the real world in all of these cities, in Republican cities, in the reddest of the red cities, people were nice to you and you were nice to them. And you would shake their hands and you would take photos with them. That's what we saw. And that was a major realization for me. Talk to us about that. Yeah, I think it goes and plays into this facade. and a lot of the manipulation that was attempted through the media.

50:02As we went around the country, as we touched down and interact with people directly, a lot of the responses were very different. And it was consistently different. And I would say in many instances, to my surprise, because I didn't know what to expect walking into some of the communities and some of the cities that we walked into. And to see the level of response is something that gives me hope in relation to where we can go as a country and where we go as a society. because I think what is being pushed at the level of administration, and again, going back to this level of oligarchy, is a lot of division that actually on the ground, we're seeing people collectively say, yeah, we actually don't agree with what they're doing.

50:55And I think we're starting to feel this undercurrent that's connected to a lot of what we got to see over the last 10 years is people want to collectively do better. What they want to make sure that also doesn't happen is that they're not exploited. They aren't left out of doing better. And the goal and intention is always how do we advance? How do we make sure that we take one action after another to get people to a better place? And I think that's the part that people realize and it showed up consistently. And I would say doing that with integrity as well is incredibly important. And I think when you do all of those things, over time, people see that and they appreciate it and they respect it.

51:42And that's a lot of what the experience has been as we've gone across the country. And we want to continue to build upon that because that's how we think collectively as a society we should be moving. That's how we should be interacting with people. so I think we're seeing a lot different experience actually on the ground versus what is being pushed in other places.

52:06Ben Meiselas:Colm, the book is called The Perilous Fight. It's out now. I want everybody to get their copy of it right now. I mean, if this interview, I know you and I have a copy. I want to get it. I want to get another copy and see if I miss something. I want to get more copies of it. So everybody should definitely get their copy of this now. But before we go, Colin, why now? Why release this book? Right now, here it is, September 2026. The world looks a lot different than it did when you began to peacefully protest in a respectful way. You You didn't want the media attention. It was hoisted upon you. Everything that's happened since then.

52:55Ben Meiselas:You warned about a lot of these things that have all happened. I would tell people, maybe go back and listen to this. Maybe go back and listen to a few of these things that he was saying was going to happen. Because, I mean, dude, you were warning about ICE. You wrote a book about abolishing ICE. And people looked at you when you wrote this book five years ago. You talked about abolishing ICE in the Biden administration. You're like, I'm telling you, this is what's coming. Be very careful. We could spend a whole podcast just talking about your book where you focused on abolishing ICE and a lot of these government structures that have been turned against the people and why we need more people -focused structures to ensure safety and protection.

53:42Ben Meiselas:We could do a whole other show. People are like, let's do the next one. I have to save some material for another interview, Colin. But why now? Why this moment? Why are you ready to publish this memoir right now? to the point that you just brought up we're in a moment right now where we have to be organizing we have to be taking action and what I hope with the memoir is I hope everybody goes and checks it out gets a chance to go through it because I hope my experiences and some of what I had to navigate and the players that we had to navigate within this, whether it is Trump and the administration, whether it is the NFL ownership class, whether it's their co-conspirators to try to co-opt the movement.

54:37These all became pieces that were incredibly informative as far as how we can actually move forward, how we have to navigate them, and also where they have vulnerabilities. The areas that they want you to feel like you don't have power, but you have significant power and influence to be able to take action and actually create change systemically. And ultimately, what I hope people walk away from the memoir with is we we need you to have agency. We need you to be bold. We need you to take action and we need to do it now. taking an approach of being passive doesn't get us to the goal of actually creating the change that we want.

55:25So I think the moment in time we are at and in as a society and as a country, we are at a, in many ways, a fork in the road of we are either going to redirect this ship towards a future that is actually built and beneficial for everybody, or we are going to be passive observers and watch the country go down the drain in a way that I don't think benefits anybody. So taking action now and be bold with it and be confident in it.

55:57Ben Meiselas:I have a question for you. This is for me as much as the audience right now. I'm learning. So here's my question for you, though, because there was a time where nobody wanted to talk to Colin Kaepernick. Nobody wanted to be around you. No one wanted to do anything right at all. Then there was a time when everybody wanted to be associated with Colin Kaepernick. You know, everybody wanted to do a deal with you. And all of these structures wanted to they wanted you to do this, that and the other. And then when Trump came back, everybody who wanted to be with you now were turning their back on you again.

56:33Ben Meiselas:And they said, see you later. We don't want this. No diversity, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. when the pendulum swings back and they come back, you've always been Colin Kaepernick and they've been, which I think is one of the systemic problems that we have in our country. How do you deal with it? How do I deal with it? How do we together, Colin, how do we deal with that when they're like, all right, we're here. And we're like, oh, really? Really? Because you weren't there. How do we deal with it? Yeah. Watching the pendulum swing and people just capitulate is frustrating. What I will say there is collectively we have to understand the power of our dollar.

57:17And this is why boycotts are extremely effective. We're seeing this right now with Target. Target, the pendulum swung. They had DEI policies in place. The Trump administration comes in. They capitulate. They roll that back. And the response is we're boycotting Target collectively. And we saw that impact their bottom line, which sends a message to every other company out there. If you're taking actions that are counter to the benefit of the people, everyone is going to hold you accountable and is going to impact your bottom line. And I think that's the action and lever that we have to utilize most significantly.

57:53There's other actions that we can take surrounding that. but I think that becomes the immediate lever. The other part that I would say is for all of the companies out there, just know that everyone is watching your actions. Every person in every community is watching the actions that you take and those who are steadfast in their beliefs and their morals and the integrity and working to the benefit of people, those are going to be the companies that everyone backs. The ones who sway with the breeze and capitulate, everyone is going to remember the positions that you are taking now and the convenience that you're taking within that approach to your own benefit that are counter to people's interests.

58:43And when that pendulum swings back and you want people to come support you and you try to position it as, hey, we were always with you. we just had to navigate this situation, people aren't going to believe you. And majority of people are not going to come back to you. So I think it's important that collectively we are steadfast in sending that message because that's one of the key levers that we have to make sure that companies stay true to the mission. And as we do that, it sends a message to every other company out there.

59:16Ben Meiselas:Well, I think we said it all. I think the people would like to hear more even. There may be another end. There may be around two or around three. We'll see. But, you know, it's a very special moment for me, selfishly, personally, but it's been an honor to be able to share this with the people, to share our relationship, you know, with the people. And, you know, Colin has someone who's been beyond inspirational in my life. And it's an incredible honor to have been by his side for that part of history, you know, into the future. And I think you all see here why Colin is really such, you know, an incredible person who walks the walk every damn day.

1:00:08Ben Meiselas:So the book is called The Perilous Fight. Buy 10 copies of it. Not even one. Buy 10 copies of it. Go take a look at it. Read it. And thanks, Colin. We really appreciate you. Thank you, Ben And I will say It is always a pleasure And For all of the listeners out there Viewers out there I would not be here today And you would not see me In this way If it wasn't for the work that Ben was doing To be able to support and fight for me And fight for other players And prior to that work Fighting directly in communities And And Ben, just to be able to spend this time with you, to see all of the success that you're having and continuing to fight for people and fighting for a better future.

1:00:59Something that makes me incredibly proud, incredibly excited and grateful for all of the work that you have done for me personally and that you're doing for us collectively.

1:01:08Ben Meiselas:Colin Kaepernick, the perilous fight in it together. Me, you, the Midas Mighty, all the people out there, not just in this country, but abroad, fighting for freedom, fighting for truth, for empathy, for love, for a path forward. Thanks, everybody. This has been Ben Micellis at the Midas Touch Network. Can subscribe to get to 7 million subscribers.

1:01:42Ben Meiselas:do this.