Epstein Survivor Anouska de Georgiou Tells All

26:13Ben Meiselas:Are you staying at the house in Palm Beach at this point in time? Is that where you're staying? And then would you go back to London with them and travel? Or was it from there on out, was it mostly in Palm Beach where you were living for that period of time from 93 to 99? Or what was that like?

26:34Anouska de Georgiou:No, it wasn't living. It was sort of, I mean, by the time Palm Beach had happened, it was very much,

26:43Anouska de Georgiou:you come when you're summoned. And there was a lot of summoning. And this structure was set up, nobody talked to Jeffrey directly. And this was set up so that there would be this sense of being removed from him because of how important and powerful he is. And so, I would see them again in London and then I did also go to the island once and to Paris once. So, it was very much set up that you knew that, and also I will say in Palm Beach, there There were some interactions with other men, not sexual interactions, but I was around conversations that Jeffrey was having with other powerful men. And it was being reiterated to me and reinforced to me constantly that if you know the right people and you have enough money, you can do anything you want and never get a consequence.

27:50Anouska de Georgiou:And, you know, I was a smart girl. I knew exactly what that meant. I knew why it was being said in front of me and for my benefit. So I knew that in order to keep safe, I had to keep showing up. And I also, at that point, was dissociated so much that... I felt devalued. And just, you know, if they... if you were summoned, there was a lot of sense of urgency around it. And that kind of sense of urgency is infectious. And when there's great urgency and great panic from powerful people, everybody runs around to try. And also, there's the support of all the staff, right? All the staff who were frightened of Ghislaine, all the staff who were frightened of Geoffrey.

28:37Anouska de Georgiou:And Geoffrey's screaming and Ghislaine screaming. So it was different places, but it was more like trips or short interactions over years.

28:56Ben Meiselas:And I'll show people the photo of you around this time period as well that you provided to some media outlets. And that was you as a young girl. And I want people to, you know, you had Epstein in his 40s, Ghislaine in her mid-30s at that point as that time progressed, engaging in this horrific rape and abuse of you. And then one of the things that, as you know, if your name is searched now, people see this article from the Sunday Mirror. And it should be noted that Ghislaine's father, who died in 1991, Robert Maxwell, owned this paper. It's called the Sunday Mirror. This was in her family. And so at some point in 1997, Ghislaine planted a story about you to basically imply that Donald Trump was keeping you in a penthouse.

29:58Ben Meiselas:And I'll just I'll quickly just share with the audience what this says, because it seems part of it also was. And to be clear, I'll just say from the outset, there was no abuse, sexual abuse from Trump to you. And I just want to make that very clear here. But what there was was a meeting with Trump or an interaction in New York City and then in Palm Beach. that then let Ghislaine plant a story that Donald Trump was having a relationship with you that was actually not happening, but that was pushed out there to, I guess, help Ghislaine and Donald Trump's image together. I don't want to speculate the purpose of it, but this was the article right here.

30:48Ben Meiselas:How sweet. Trump's Brit of all right. And that's a photo of you right there, right? It says, party, they called you party girl, Anoushka. And it says, just weeks after ditching his second wife, America's best known billionaire, Donald Trump, has fallen under the spell of a 20-year-old English girl. Trump 50, who has failed in his bid to secure the services of Princess Diana's butler, Paul Burrell, was in search of another British trophy when he met London model Anoushka de Giorgia at a party in Manhattan. Several American millionaires already had their eyes on Anushka. But she was there with Robert Maxwell's daughter, Ghislaine, who has introduced several of her attractive friends to the property developer.

31:31Ben Meiselas:And none of his would-be rivals owned a vast mansion in Florida like Donald does. Mar-a-Lago, where I have dined with him and his outgoing wife, Marla, is enough to make any young girl go weak at the knees. After their meeting, Trump flew Madame Maxwell. By the way, they're calling her Madame. and the model south to the Sunshine State, where all three enjoyed a happy weekend together. When they returned to New York, Anushka was installed in one of Donald's many apartments. Mr. Georgia likes older men. She went out once or twice with Joanna Loomley's ex-husband, Jeremy Floyd, who was 50 years her senior.

32:10Ben Meiselas:And then it goes on to say, doubtless, this is the start of a long by trump standards already is uh friendship already and so to be clear you were never holed up in an apartment in the penthouse and but but you didn't put i was put in an apartment

32:28Anouska de Georgiou:by jeffrey and one of one of jeffrey's apartments that gillen and jeffrey put me in so that's where i was staying in new york so um there were a lot of um there were a lot of inaccuracies in this story and I think one of the things that's very dangerous to survivors is misinformation and disinformation because if it doesn't have credibility and it's not true, then at some point someone discovers that that's the case and it serves people who would seek to discredit the real facts and the real information. So I did not have a romantic or sexual relationship with Donald Trump in any way. It is true that Ghislaine brought me there expressly talking about, oh, he's going to love you, you're just his type, that, you know, you should say this and you should wear this, and she went with me.

33:28Anouska de Georgiou:But she introduced me to a couple of other wealthy men when I was there in New York. And, you know, not all of them bad people, no one that I had a relationship with at the time. Also, just the fact of me going out with Jeremy Lloyd, who's 50 years older than me at the time, that's absolute nonsense. I mean, you know, I knew him. And you can't be attached to someone romantically. The press just says you're going out with somebody if you're in a photograph with them once or something. So I think that was a way of making it acceptable and making it that it was my idea or that I was okay with that.

34:11Anouska de Georgiou:And I wasn't interested in Donald Trump or anybody that age.

34:15Ben Meiselas:and and the thing that she was doing though Ghislaine with with Trump and some of these other guys though was saying oh he's gonna love you here's what you have to say here here's what he likes he's into this and that that that that part is the only kind of true part about that is that accurate yes yes okay let let's let's fast forward a little bit um to Ghislaine's trial Elaine gets convicted of child sex trafficking. And it's incredibly difficult for you to have to go through that process there and relive the trauma that you've shared with us here. But you have to go through it in a trial setting.

34:59She's someone who instilled fear and terror and panic.

35:05Ben Meiselas:I guess two questions. before I get there, how would you get out of that? Like, I guess, let me ask, I don't want to leave that hole in the story. And then let me go to the trial. How did that part, and then let's go to the trial.

35:19Anouska de Georgiou:So one of the coping mechanisms that I developed, that many survivors develop through this kind of trauma and initiated by this kind of trauma is heavy drinking, medication, abusing medication, those kinds of things. And that was, you know, I became an alcoholic, I became an addict, and... And that was the way that I got through it. I also dissociated regularly when I didn't have alcohol to kind of help me to do that for me. And when I was about 26, so about 10 years through these experiences, I met somebody who was a friend who introduced me to the possibility of getting sober, getting clean, and I really took it, and I really went with it.

36:13Anouska de Georgiou:And, you know, I've been sober for 22 years now. And so, as I got sober, I think I started to come back into my body and start to realize the gravity and the extent of some of the things that had happened. And that was a blessing and a curse. It was a blessing in terms of the fact that I really couldn't, my body just wouldn't go there. And so I was starting to find more and more excuses to not go. That being said, I was getting very much too old for Jeffrey at this point. At 26, I was quite old for them. In fact, just quickly mentioning something, when I was in Palm Beach at 20, Guylaine was joking that I was too old, getting too old now.

37:02Anouska de Georgiou:So, you know, I got sober. I started to... My life started to improve in some ways, but I still was unable to maintain good relationships, to really push my career forward. I would get little bursts of being able to have successes, and then I would fall into a depression, or I would fall into a cycle of dating abusive people as well. So that's how I started to get out of it. But I will say that for someone who's experienced these kinds of traumas, you don't get over it. Hopefully, the best thing you can hope for is to develop and discover healthier coping mechanisms so that when the attacks come, when the PTSD comes, when the triggers come, you don't turn it in on yourself and you don't destroy yourself or kill yourself.

38:03Ben Meiselas:So then Jeffrey Epstein dies under these mysterious circumstances. And now with a lot of the reporting casts a lot more questions than even existed before, but we don't have to get into that in this interview. You're able to speak before Judge Berman's court about the trauma that you experienced. And Judge Berman gave everybody, gave survivors an opportunity to speak there. That was in 2019. Then you fast forward to 2021, 2022, Ghislaine's trial. She's convicted of child sex trafficking. She's put in prison in Tallahassee, maximum security facility. Talk about her being found guilty, what that was for you, having to go through all these court proceedings then and having to relive the trauma.

39:01Ben Meiselas:And then you learn that Ghislaine now gets moved to a minimum security facility where she gets VIP treatment and lives better than lots of people do in a hotel because Trump has Todd Blanche, his former criminal defense attorney, speak with her, cut a deal with the Bureau of Prisons and put her in a VIP type setting in Texas.

39:27Anouska de Georgiou:So what's the question?

39:31Ben Meiselas:It's a long windup to say, can you just walk us through that kind of process of, you know, I don't know if you experienced closure in court, but then what was it like to see, uh, what happened in, in, uh, with, with the Trump administration making that decision to move her to the minimum security facility?

39:49Anouska de Georgiou:So, uh, firstly, um, absolute props to judge Berman because he was, he was phenomenal. To give us the opportunity to come and speak our truth without a conviction, that was an unprecedented legal moment. And it was an unprecedented emotional moment for me. And it was incredibly emotional. We stood shoulder to shoulder. I sat with Virginia. And I met many of the survivors for the first time. But of course, because there was a specific MO to the abuse, we knew each other and we loved each other in a very special way. And what I said that day became the New York Times quote of the day. And bear in mind that I was given, when he died, and he would never kill himself.

40:48Anouska de Georgiou:That's just a complete impossibility for somebody with the kind of pathology that Jeffrey Epstein had. Um, you know, I was given like a day and a half notice, and they were like, do you wanna speak? And I'm like, well, what is it? What does it mean? You know? And then on the day, it's like, well, do you wanna use your own name? Well, I don't know. What is that? What are the implications of that? And we didn't have time for that. So I made the decision to speak in my own name, and it was, uh, brutal. And it was, uh, amazing. And it was also, you know, one of the biggest emotional roller coasters I've been on.

41:26Anouska de Georgiou:Of course, there was more to come. So the FBI interviewed me after speaking alongside, you know, about 23 of us survivors. And the FBI said, oh, can we speak to you? And I was like, okay. And I was so overwhelmed. And so I went to speak with the FBI. They took lots of notes, they asked lots of questions. and they said, listen, you know, if it ever came to it, if there were any co-conspirators that you could be helpful with, would you be willing to testify? And I was like, well, I'd have to understand the details and the implications of that, but in principle, yes. The next thing I heard was when I was texted about six o 'clock in the morning, very early in the morning, by my attorney, Brad Edwards, and he said, get up.

42:12Anouska de Georgiou:You are in the Ghislaine Maxwell indictment. She's just been arrested. And I was like, what? What does that mean? And then, uh, and bear in mind, I'd already moved house once because after I went to the dismissal hearing, when I got back to Los Angeles, to my home, there were people outside my house. There were journalists, there were, um, just people. People there. I don't know what they wanted. People would follow me, they'd follow me in the car, they'd chase me in the car. Um, some were journalists, some didn't get out of the car, so it seemed like an intimidation thing. And then when I was in the indictment, I then moved again.

42:54Anouska de Georgiou:And the harassment and the sort of tactics that are used to discredit me, but also to discourage me. And I used that term lightly because it was really intense. Contacting everybody I'd ever met, everyone I dated, my family, tracking down family members I hadn't seen for a long time. It was very frightening. And I had a young daughter at the time. And so I was moving. I used to get very paranoid. And then my attorney, Brad, says, well, it's not really paranoia though, is it? Because you were being threatened. So it's actually valid fear. So then, you know, fast forward to going through the trial.

43:40Anouska de Georgiou:My whole life stopped for about a year, you know? from when, really from when, from the dismissal hearing, but then up to the trial. And I couldn't do anything properly because I didn't know when I was next going to be attacked. So she gets finally, after lots of bumps in the road, of having, you know, is she going to get convicted? And then when we get the verdict, then it's like, are they going to overturn it because of this juror thing? And then skip to where, you know, she gets moved. I mean, first of all, people said, you know, oh, you must be so pleased that she's been convicted. Well, there's relief that she can't hurt anyone else and she can't place any more children and women in positions to be hurt.

44:32Anouska de Georgiou:But it's tragic when there is a woman who has to be incarcerated so she doesn't hurt children. That's a tragic moment. And that doesn't make me happy. And when she got moved to Tallahassee, of course, there'd also been all the talk of, is she going to be pardoned? I had asked Brad, my attorney, many times before it came out in the press. I had said, Trump is going to pardon her. I think he's going to pardon her. I'm really scared that he's going to pardon her. And at the beginning, when she was convicted, I was saying that. And he said, no, no, no, that will never happen. And, you know, it still might.

45:13Anouska de Georgiou:I think there's less chance now, but when she got moved, I wasn't surprised. But it is upsetting, disappointing, shocking. Leaves me with a feeling of hopelessness. And now with the way that these files have been handled,

45:35Anouska de Georgiou:it's hard. It's hard to get through. Sometimes I feel like I have to get through hours at a time because it's just too much. This is years. Every week, there's some big thing that interrupts the flow of my life in a way where I feel completely paralyzed.

45:55Ben Meiselas:You know, the fact that you thought that Trump would pardon her and even, you know, your lawyer, who's a top lawyer for survivors out there, you know, and he said, I don't think that that's ever going to happen. And, you know, the fact that you thought that even back then, and, you know, I'm interested to know, do you think that now the only reason that it's less of a possibility is because the cover up is kind of backfiring on them with the release of the files, which complicates his ability because he's mentioned there's 38 ,000 references to him. And so it becomes more, if he was able to cover it up, then he would be more likely to pardon her.

46:39Ben Meiselas:Is that your thinking or what's your thoughts there?

46:42Anouska de Georgiou:So what I think is it's important to try to fathom what would be the reason for him pardoning her. And I think many people have had the theory that he wants to pardon her so that she won't say things she knows about him. And although that's a possibility, I think the stronger reason, which is also the reason that he was fighting the release of the files, and the reason that the files have been released in the way that they have, is because there are more powerful people who may be people that he knows that he... that he really can't let down, who cannot be exposed. And I think it's those people that may be driving this situation.

47:32Anouska de Georgiou:And I think Maxwell has a lot of information and therefore a lot of power in this situation. And that's why she's sitting where she's sitting and not where Epstein's sitting. You think that there's a lot more being covered up right now

47:52Ben Meiselas:that's not out there, that's still being hidden and those other files that are out there.

47:58Anouska de Georgiou:Mm-hmm.

47:59Ben Meiselas:You think that exists? I do.

48:02Anouska de Georgiou:I mean, obviously, as one of the survivors who was around Guillen and Jeffrey for over 10 years, I myself have some information. So I know that there are things that are not out there. I also think that the way that they've sort of, it was quite strategic, I think, the way that this Epstein file dump took place before the weekend, before last weekend, because to flood the world with information, information comes in different categories and to have disinformation, misinformation and real facts all mixed in together really just creates chaos. It creates anarchy and it creates a situation where you can't separate which one is which.

48:57Anouska de Georgiou:And therefore, for the people who seek to discredit the real survivor stories, that's what they're gonna use. You know, they're gonna say, Oh, well, this one thing is just a piece of paper with some writing on that was just a joke. And so it all must be a joke, all of it. You know, it all must be just a silly big joke. But obviously, the truth is, You couldn't possibly have this many women who were children coming out with the same story if there wasn't something to it. And of course, there's more there, and we may never know. But from my side, now that I've been exposed, and now that I've come out and spoken publicly, I'm not even close to being done.

49:46Anouska de Georgiou:And I'm gonna keep the pressure on.

49:48Ben Meiselas:And Anoushka, we'd love to have you back on as well. And as this develops, I think it's important that we center our reporting in the voice of the survivors and what you and the other community of survivors who you've been standing shoulder to shoulder with have experienced and to always remember. And that's why I don't want, this is not a political issue to me. You know, I show the photo of you, you know, when you're a young girl. And I wanted people to hear what happened, how the grooming occurred, what took place, how you got. So that we understand that behind this are people like you who suffered and who have been living with that trauma and who take it day by day sometimes about getting through.

50:54Ben Meiselas:And then to have this happen on top of it, it is every day. This is your life now. And so before we go to our 6 million subscribers out there, anything else you want to say for purposes of this interview? And then, of course, we're going to have you back. But I just want to give you the kind of final word that you want to tell our audience and anybody watching out there.

51:19Anouska de Georgiou:Thank you. Well, what I want to say is from, you know, at the trial, Annie Farmer and myself testified. Annie's been an incredible advocate and an incredible truth seeker and truth teller. Of course, Carolyn Andreano spoke at the trial and she is no longer with us. And although Virginia didn't speak at the trial, she is also no longer with us. And before the trial, I was struggling a great deal. And at some point, I said, Brad, I don't think I can do it. I don't think I can do it. And I had been sent a document in error by somebody. And it was the story of somebody who had a child the same age as mine.

52:13Anouska de Georgiou:And it was a story of another survivor who'd been a victim of Jeffrey Epstein. And I realized towards reading the end of the story that this woman had died, I think by a drug overdose or something. And when I read it, I realized that I had to do it. I had to do it. And even though things are not changing in the world or in this country or in this area at the pace that I'd like them to, things are changing and we are making a difference. And I will continue to fight. And I'm very grateful that you provide a platform for survivors to speak. And I will continue to speak until I get what we came for.

53:09Ben Meiselas:Anoushka de Georgia, thank you for your time.

53:11Anouska de Georgiou:Thank you.

53:13Ben Meiselas:Everybody, thank you for watching.

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