In short
The episode argues that Donald Trump can’t fire embattled FBI director Kash Patel because Patel allegedly holds compromising information in the Jeffrey Epstein files. It claims Patel previously said the FBI had Epstein’s list, then after becoming director searched for references to Trump and reportedly found them, leading Trump to order the matter dropped. The host cites alleged FBI blunders involving a Charlie Kirk-related shooting and claims Patel’s later statements about Epstein (including that Epstein died by suicide) have shifted. It also discusses Pam Bondi’s letter saying the FBI initially withheld thousands of pages/terabytes of Epstein materials. Notable examples include alleged Polaroids described by Michael Wolff and claims that Republicans want Patel removed but Trump protects him.
Guests
none named or interviewed in the transcript.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOTrump's Predicament with Kash Patel
0:30 to 4:12
Explore the complex relationship between Trump and FBI Director Kash Patel amid allegations and incompetence.
“Donald Trump is in a bit of a predicament on the one hand.”
Kash Patel's Contradictions
4:15 to 6:42
Discussion on Kash Patel's shifting narrative regarding the Epstein files and his role in the FBI.
“How can I rearrange the ships on the Titanic?”
The Epstein Files Controversy
9:54 to 14:00
An analysis of the ongoing issues surrounding the Epstein files and Trump's connection to them.
“So Kash Patel has all the goods right there.”
Trump's Connection to Epstein
14:00 to 15:14
Discussion on Donald Trump's past associations with Jeffrey Epstein and implications.
“Yesterday, the Republicans voted against releasing the files.”
Michael Wolff's Revelations
15:14 to 16:52
Michael Wolff shares insights about Trump's photos with young women linked to Epstein.
“At one point after Trump had been elected, and I was sitting talking to Epstein, and he said, wait a minute, I got to show you something.”
Cash Patel's Dilemma
16:52 to 18:35
Discussion on Cash Patel's precarious position and potential negotiations with Trump.
“But then you just go back to remember this article that was leaked by Patel.”
Transcript
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0:30Ben Meiselas:Donald Trump is in a bit of a predicament on the one hand. He wants to fire his FBI director, Kash Patel, so badly he knows how utterly incompetent Patel is. But on the other hand, Kash Patel knows where the bodies are buried, or I should say, what is in the Epstein files. Now, before Kash Patel became the FBI director, Kash Patel said that he was confident that the FBI had all the information about Epstein and had the Epstein list. Then he became the FBI director and he was going to produce all of the records. He had his FBI agents go through him, try to identify any reference to Donald Trump's name.
1:10Ben Meiselas:They found quite a few, apparently, according to the Wall Street Journal and others. They briefed Donald Trump. Trump said to deep six it. And then you had Kash Patel say, I don't know, Epstein files. What Epstein files? I don't know what happened. But see, he does know what happened. And so Donald Trump realizes, I mean, Kash Patel couldn't have been worse when it came to the shooter of Charlie Kirk. I mean, Kash Patel was at like a fancy Italian restaurant, Rayo's, while he was posting on social media that they got the guy. But it turned out the person that they actually got at first was not the guy.
1:48Ben Meiselas:It was just someone who was Arab who happened to be a supporter of Charlie Kirk. And then during a press conference that took place in Utah, mind you, Cash Patel previously fired the field office head of the FBI in Utah. You had the kind of interim head of Utah's FBI and the governor and others. They were like, I guess if the FBI is saying they've got someone, I guess they have a person of interest. Then Cash Patel had to issue a retraction. Then when they finally were able to find the alleged killer, Tyler Robinson, because he turned himself in to his own father, you had Kash Patel try to take credit.
2:30Ben Meiselas:This was because of good policing. And this shows how strong the FBI is. And he's like, Charlie Kirk, I'll see you in Valhalla, man. I'll see you in Valhalla. And even to this day, you've got Kash Patel now because of all of the incompetence of the FBI from before. You know, they're so just trying to make this about like transgender people. At first they were like, the bullets are trans. And then they were like, no, now he has a roommate. How's the bullet trans? How does a bullet have transgender ideology on it? So that was debunked. And then like he he's roommate or maybe girlfriend or something was transgender.
3:13Ben Meiselas:And so did she have anything to do with it? No, but it rubbed off on him. And that was part of the ideology. Like, what are you talking about? Fox, by the way, is reporting knives are out for embattled FBI director Cash Patel. It claims despite Trump support. And I think what the Trump support means is that Donald Trump can't lose Kash Patel right now because Kash Patel and Dan Bongino know what's in those Epstein files. And Trump hasn't figured out what other job he's going to give Kash Patel or how he's going to silence Patel. Patel sought a meeting with Trump following the blunders as a new co-deputy begins work next week.
3:53Ben Meiselas:And so this talks about how like everybody around Trump pretty much wants Patel and Bongino gone. but Trump can't get rid of him. And it's like, because Trump still supports him. No, it's because Patel knows what the Epstein files are. That's why Trump can't get rid of him until Trump figures out, am I going to give this guy an ambassadorship or where can I move him to keep him silent? How can I rearrange the ships on the Titanic? In other words, but let me just remind you of Kash Patel's background. Like when Kash Patel was on with Benny Johnson and he said this, Do you remember it? Let's play this clip right here.
4:31You know, it's the same thing with Epstein's list. It's like, what the hell are these Republicans doing? Oh, I saw you give out. I saw you make news this morning about that. I got to get to that. You say that the FBI has Epstein's list. They're sitting on it. That doesn't seem like something you should do. You're protecting the world's foremost predator. That seems like an evil thing to do, regardless of who may be embarrassed in the release of that list. Why is the FBI protecting the greatest pederast, the largest scale pederast in human history? Simple because of who's on that list.
5:02Ben Meiselas:Or how about in 2023 when Kash Patel said that Epstein's Black Book was under the direct control of the director of FBI? Here, play this clip. Who has Jeffrey Epstein's Black Book? Black Book. FBI. But who? That is that I mean, there's. That's under direct control of the director of the FBI. Just like the manifesto from the Nashville school shooting of the Catholic school. We still haven't seen that, right? It's not the Nashville police or PD saying we don't want this out. The FBI airmailed into that operation and said this is not getting out. Because they do that because this is another government gangster operation.
5:46All these local law enforcement communities get funding from the DOJ and FBI for local programs. And if you don't cooperate, you're not getting your million dollars for this and you're not getting it. And that's a lot of money to these local districts.
5:57Ben Meiselas:And then notably, Kash Patel changed his tune very recently. And Kash Patel back in May said that he's not going to withhold information from the American public ever. You can rely on him, but they're not turning anything over here. Play this clip. The other thing on the Internet is the Epstein files. What's the answer to that? The answer to that is the same as everything else. I'm not going to withhold information from the American public ever, but I'm also not going to rush to get it out there in a format in which they can't rely on it. So on the Epstein matter or any other matters, we are diligently working on that.
6:35And it takes time to go through years of investigations, years of political maneuvering and years of cover up to get the American people what they deserve. And that's what I'm going to give him on everything.
6:47Ben Meiselas:Yeah. And then this is what he says about how Epstein died. He goes, I could assure you it was suicide. Trust me. There's nothing. There's no conspiracy here, even though he was the one saying before that there was. Anyway, play this clip. But there is a lot of conspiracy theories out there. There are the Epstein thing. You dealt with Maria. You said, as far as you know, he killed himself. I'm telling you, he killed himself. So going through this article from Fox about how the knives are out to get rid of Kash Patel, here's what it talks about. It talks about how former Missouri Attorney General Andrew Bailey, once Trump's top pick to lead the FBI, he's now going to be the deputy FBI director because they're just keeping Dan Bongino as a co -deputy FBI director just to keep Bongino close.
7:38Ben Meiselas:Because, again, Bongino knows what's up with the Epstein files as well. So they're keeping him as a co-deputy FBI director. But everyone's saying that they want this Andrew Bailey guy, far right MAGA guy. They want him to be the leader of the FBI. It goes on to talk about how the White House, Bondi, Todd Blanche, that's Donald Trump's former criminal defense attorney, and number two, now at the DOJ, have no confidence in Cash Patel, one source with knowledge of ongoing personnel discussion said, Pam in particular cannot stand him. Todd Blanche either can't stand him. Bondi and Blanche, they say they deny that characterization, but it seems to be that they are most likely the sources of that.
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9:53Ben Meiselas:Now, as I previously reported, more than 1 ,000 FBI agents were assigned to comb through the Epstein files to flag any mentions of Trump's name for higher ups. They then redacted his name. So Kash Patel has all the goods right there. And by the way, do you remember this one from February 27th, 2025, this letter from Pam Bondi to Kash Patel? According to Pam Bondi, the FBI hid the Epstein files from her until now, until February 27th, 2025. But under Kash Patel's leadership, they're suddenly delivering everything. Okay, this is another reason why they'd love to fire Kash, but Kash has the stash.
10:43The stash is the Epstein gash or rash or something that rhymes.
10:48Ben Meiselas:Dear Director Patel, this is from Pam Bondi. Before you came into this office, I requested the full and complete files related to Jeffrey Epstein. In response to this request, I received approximately 200 pages of documents, which consisted primarily of flight logs, Epstein's list of contacts, and a list of victims' names and phone numbers. Just a brief reminder, this is what those right-wing influencers held up, those Epstein binders, those phase one binders. I repeatedly questioned whether this was the full set of documents responsive to my request and was repeatedly assured by the FBI that we had received the full set of documents.
11:26Ben Meiselas:Late yesterday, I learned from a source that the FBI field office in New York was in possession of thousands of pages of documents related to the investigation and indictment of Epstein. pause. More than a thousand. Try three terabytes of documents. That means more documents than would fit in like three massive skyscrapers if you filled the entire skyscrapers with documents. Despite my repeated requests, the FBI never disclosed the existence of these files. When you and I spoke yesterday, you were just as surprised as I was to learn this new information. By 8 a.m. tomorrow, February 28th, the FBI will deliver the full and complete Epstein files to my office, including all records, documents, audio and video recordings.
12:10Ben Meiselas:And you forgot about this letter, didn't you? You forgot. We don't forget about this letter at the Midas Touch Network. Regardless of how such information was obtained, there will be no withholdings or limitations to my or your access. The department, let me repeat that again. There will be no withholdings or limitations to my or your access. That means Patel has the goods. Patel has the goods. The Department of Justice will ensure that any public disclosure of these files will be done in a matter to protect the privacy of victims and in accordance with the laws as I have done my entire career as a prosecutor.
12:47Ben Meiselas:I'm also directing you to conduct an immediate investigation into why my order to the FBI was not followed. You will deliver to me a comprehensive report of your findings and a proposed personal action plan within 14 days. In other words, cash has the compromise. Cash has the compromise. I appreciate your immediate attention to this matter. Now, what do we think the compromise could be? It could be a lot of things, but Dan Goldman, Democratic Congress member has some ideas play this clip. What's going on with the Epstein files? Donald Trump promised to release them. Pam Bondi said she had the files on her desk and that she was going to release them in the name of transparency.
13:36Kash Patel has spent years railing against the FBI to release the files. Many of my Republican colleagues were banging on the table to release the Epstein files. But now, all of a sudden, after a month's long review, Bondi and Patel say nothing to see here, no evidence that any American would want to see about accomplices, co-conspirators, or other peoples involved. Yesterday, the Republicans voted against releasing the files. So what's changed? Well, we all know Donald Trump has had a relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. He flew on his plane, he hung out in parties, spoke highly of him. And now there are many people saying that Donald Trump is included in the Epstein files.
14:25In fact, there are reporters who say that there are videos of him with topless women. Elon Musk even confirmed that Trump is blocking the release of these files because he's in them. Pam Bondi says there's nothing there, but Donald Trump even acknowledges that there is evidence there. It's just not credible. It's made up. This is a true social post from 943 this morning. It is an admission that Donald Trump is in the Epstein files and the American people deserve to know whether he is or not.
15:03Ben Meiselas:And Donald Trump's former biographer and someone who was going to potentially be Jeffrey Epstein's biographer, Michael Wolff, has some ideas. Play this clip. At one point after Trump had been elected, and I was sitting talking to Epstein, and he said, wait a minute, I got to show you something. And then he went into his safe and he came out with photographs. They were Polaroids, I think. And he kind of spread them out like playing cards. And it was Trump. I mean, I think there were a dozen of them. And it was Trump with girls of an uncertain age at Epstein's Palm Beach house, where all of the things that he would ultimately be accused of, took place.
15:58And I remember very vividly three of them. There are two in which Trump is, the girls, topless girls are sitting on Trump's lap. And then a third in which he has a stain on the front of his pants. And the girls are kind of pointing at it, sort of bent over laughing, you know, cover, you know, you know, um, covering their mouths. Exactly. Exactly. And, and pointing three or four girls. And those are the ones I specifically remember. And my assumption is, um, is that they, I mean, they were in the safe and I have seen them on other occasions, take them out of the safe. And I, and I think it's, it's, it's certainly not unlikely that they were in the safe when the FBI came in after his arrest and took everything from the House, including everything that was in the safe.
16:57Ben Meiselas:So Trump wants to fire Patel. That seems obvious. Bondi wants him gone. Blanche wants him gone. Everybody wants him gone. But then you just go back to remember this article that was leaked by Patel. To me, this leak was also a warning shot back to Donald Trump. September 13, 2025, Trump praises FBI Director Cash Patel for speedy capture of Charlie Kirk assassin. Dude, you had nothing to do with it. Tyler Robinson turned himself over to his dad and his dad turned him over to pastors and the pastors turned him over. In an exclusive interview with Fox Digital, Trump said he was very proud of the FBI, that he was very proud.
17:45Ben Meiselas:You know what that means. Patel leaked it, are you proud of me? Meaning, am I going to stay? That's the code. I have the Epstein files. I know all about you. Tell me what you think. Then Trump responds to Fox, we are very proud. The code being, I'm not going to get rid of you. We're going to figure something out for you. Got it. Got it. And when we hear from Fox that Cash desperately wants to set up a meeting, I think Cash realizes that his days are numbered, but also he's going to want to negotiate an ambassadorship or something big because he now knows more than anybody about Trump. Just think about that.
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From the publisher
MeidasTouch host Ben Meiselas reports on how Donald Trump mostly likely wants to fire Kash Patel as FBI Director but also knows that Patel has seen what’s actually in the Epstein Files so Trump needs to figure how to keep Kash silent if he wants to replace him at the FBI.
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