Trump Top Aide Gets Exposed by Cross-Exam in Senate Hearing

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2:21Ben Meiselas:John Stamos here in partnership with Cologuard, and I've got to say, so you're 45 or older and at average risk. So what? That doesn't mean your life comes to a halt. No way. You can still do all the fun things you've been doing, but it's time to take your health a little more seriously. Colon cancer screening needs to be on your docket, and it's as simple as the Cologuard test. Don't worry. You got this. An explosive hearing just took place in the United States Senate where Democrats were finally able to cross-examine the commissioner of the FCC, the Federal Communications Commission, Brendan Carr.

2:56Ben Meiselas:He's the guy who threatened to revoke ABC's license if they wouldn't fire Jimmy Kimmel. He's the guy who's been out there launching investigations to any media network that's on television that discusses Donald Trump in a negative light. and Democrats were incredible in this cross-exam. They got Brendan Carr to admit that he no longer deems the FCC to be an independent agency, despite the fact that while this cross-exam was taking place, the FCC's website said that it was an independent agency. I want you to watch as Democratic Senator Lujan cross-examines Brendan Carr, and Brendan Carr is forced to concede that he and Donald Trump no longer view the FCC as independent.

3:46Ben Meiselas:Here play this clip. FCC an independent agency. Senator, thanks for that question. I think yes or no is all we need, sir. Yes or no, is it independent? Well, there's a test for this in the law in the key portion of that test. Yes or no, Brendan? The key portion of that test. Okay, I'm going to go to Commissioner Trustee. So just so you know, Brendan, on your website, it just simply says, man, the FCC is independent. This isn't a trick question. Okay. The FCC is not. Yes or no? It's not. Okay. It's not. So is your website wrong? Is your website lying? Possibly. The FCC is not an independent agency.

4:18Okay. Can I read this to you? The FCC's mission on the homepage of the FCC, man, an independent U.S. government agency overseen by Congress. Is that factual or is that a lie? The FCC is not formally an independent agency. Is this true or is this a lie? I'm happy to answer your question. Okay. The sin quinnon of independence is being removable by the president. Chairman, I have a little bit of time. I'll get back to you. The FCC is not an independent agency, formally speaking. Appreciate you saying that and being honest with the American people. Commissioner Trustee? Senator, thank you for the question.

4:50The president is the chief executive bested with all executive power in our government, and FCC commissioners are not. We do not have four-cause removal protections, which means that we aren't independent. So is your website lying? I can't speak to the website. I've not seen that. You all are the commissioners in charge of this place, right? So this stuff has to be approved by one of you. If this is lying, then you should just fix it. Let me just say that. That wasn't even my gotcha question. I'm surprised that I've burned up three minutes talking about this damn thing. Commissioner Gomez? Yes, and we should be.

5:20I appreciate that. Well, Mr. Chairman, if I could just submit the printout of the homepage of the FCC into the record, man, it says it's an independent agency. And if it's not true, then change it. Without objection. I appreciate that, sir.

5:34Ben Meiselas:Then you have Democratic Senator Kim with his cross exam saying, let's just go back to what you just said. So you're now claiming that the FCC is not independent and you're just a stooge of Donald Trump. So you're finally admitting it. Here, play this clip. Chairman Carr, I guess I just wanted to start with you. I was confused after hearing your response to one of my colleagues about the status of the FCC. I want to read you a quote here and see if you agree with it. Congress long ago determined that the FCC, an independent expert agency. Is that correct or not? Senator, there's been sort of a sea change in sort of the law and the approach since I think I wrote that sentence, I'm assuming.

6:16Yes, you did. You gave it to me. You said it in front of Congress. Right. The view has been that the Communications Act was passed in 1934, one year before Humphrey's executor. And so Congress did not include in the Communications Act for cause removal of FCC commissioners. So I can be fired by the president for no reason or any reason at all. The theory had been that courts would read for cause removal into the statute, and that was the basis for that viewpoint. I think now it's clear that that's not the case. And so formally speaking, the FCC isn't independent because we don't have that key piece, which is for cause removal protection.

6:52So when you're talking about all power vesting the president. I mean, I just want to read this a little more because you're saying not just that it is an independent agency, but you're saying that Congress did not want these technical decisions to be made in a haphazard manner or based on misinformation or short-term political interest.

7:09Ben Meiselas:Now, right after Brendan Carr made that stunning admission after cross-examination, the FCC immediately changed its website. So the FCC's website during the cross-exam says the FCC is an independent agency because it was always deemed to be an independent agency. Then they removed the words independent agency from the website. You can see it right there. More cross-exam from Democratic Senator Kim. Let's play this clip right here. I guess I'd just like to be a little bit more direct here. Have you ever had a conversation with the president or senior administration officials about using the FCC to go after critics?

7:49Well, first of all, Senator, I don't get into the specifics of conversations that I have. OK, well, let me reframe it then. Would it be appropriate for the president or senior administration officials to give you direction to pressure media companies? I'm not going to get into hypotheticals, but I can tell you, look, the answer is no. The decision is not a hypothetical. It's literally just trying to determine whether or not you are understanding your job being belonging to the American people. Trump is not your boss. So the American people are your boss. And here's just one example I want to give on this.

8:23The decisions are going to be based on a vote. Let me finish my comment here. OK. The reason I raise this is because whether or not you had that conversation in the Oval Office or on a phone call, what we do is we see it all out in front on August 24th. Trump wrote ABC and NBC fake news. They are simply an arm of the Democratic Party and should accordingly to many have their licenses revoked by the FCC. I would be totally in favor of that because they are so biased and untruthful and an actual threat to our democracy. So this is not hypothetical, like you said. He did intentionally try to pressure you and direct you to be able to use your power in the FCC against media companies that he thought were biased against him.

9:12So that's why I just want to say this is not hypothetical. This is not theoretical. This is real. And I was trying to get a sense of whether or not you thought this behavior was appropriate or not. and your failure to be able to directly dictate a line and show that there's integrity in this process concerns me because before the FCC comes all of these decisions. All of these decisions. And when you cannot tell me directly that Trump is not your boss, that the American people are your boss, I do not trust you that you can make these decisions with the independent mind that is needed and directed by Congress.

9:53And with that, I'll yield back. When we make decisions at the commission, it's a vote among the three of us. It's a product of the three of our votes. And we all can suggest edits and change items. And you can see for yourself the bases in reasoning for it. So would it be appropriate then for the president to try and remove and replace any commissioner because he disagrees with the decisions made by that commission? The president can remove any member of the commission for any reason or no reason at all. I know that. But do you think that's appropriate? It's up to the president to decide. OK, well, then we got your answer.

10:22With that, I'll yield back.

10:25Ben Meiselas:Oh, so you won't get into the conversation. So clearly we all know that Donald Trump is directing Brendan Carr, who no longer deems the FCC to be independent, to go after comedians and to go after network hosts and others on TV that Donald Trump doesn't like. People who speak negatively about Donald Trump. So then Senator Kim says, so you view Donald Trump as your boss, right? Whereas the FCC commissioner would never answer this question yes before, whether it was under Biden, George W. Bush, Obama, Reagan, whoever, they would always answer. Of course, they're not my boss. We're an independent agency.

11:03Ben Meiselas:Watch as Brendan Carr basically freezes when he's asked these questions. Play this clip. So when you're talking about all power vesting the president, I mean, I just want to read this a little more because you're saying not just that it is an independent agency, but you're saying that Congress did not want these technical decisions to be made in a haphazard manner or based on misinformation or short term political interests. You specifically said it placed the authority outside of the executive branch for a reason. So you were not just stating what was what was the law at the time. you're stating the benefit that comes with the independence.

11:42So I guess I'm just trying to get a sense from you. If you don't think that the FCC is independent, then is President Trump your boss? President Trump has designated me as chairman of the FCC. I think it comes as no surprise that I'm aligned with President Trump on policy. I think that's why he designated me as chairman. But ultimately, you consider him your boss? Ultimately, the president of designate me as chairman, I can be fired by the president. The president is the head of the executive branch. The decisions of the commission. He's your boss. Look, the decisions of the commission are going to be based on a vote of the three of us right here.

12:15So there are some things that are different about that. And our decisions are based on the facts in the law when the record. You swore an oath when you came into your job. Right. Does the oath have the word president in it? Senator, again, I'm not tracking this this line. What I'm saying is every decision. Do you remember the oath that you took? Yeah. You swear an oath to protect what? Sorry, every single decision. What is it that you're protecting? In this job, we're based on the Constitution of the United States. I'm just consistent. This is not consistent with the Constitution. I'm just trying to get a sense of how you're trying to operate here.

12:48Ben Meiselas:Then you have Democratic Senator Schatz from Hawaii. Here's his cross exam. Play this clip. Thank you to all the commissioners. Thanks to the committee for conducting this hearing. um chairman carr you and i've actually known each other for maybe 10 years now we've had several meetings in our office and it's usually i don't want to say mundane but it's technocratic it's technical it's non-partisan and all the rest of it and so i'm hoping we can do that again right here it's fine i'm hoping we can do that again right here but it is a more sensitive topic so i'm just going to ask you a couple of yes or no questions i don't mind a quick explanation but i'd you know i'll make a promise to you not to hector you for three or four minutes if you can give me quick yes or nos or at least quick explanations.

13:32Chairman Cruz said, I think it is unbelievably dangerous for the government to put itself in the position of saying we're going to decide what speech we like and what we don't, and we're going to threaten to take you off the air if we don't like what you're saying. Do you see this issue the same way as the chairman? Well, my position on this is pretty clear. We have a public interest standard that Congress has put into the law, And there's a number of very specific rules and doctrines that flow from that. The broadcast hoax rule, the news distortion rule. So my position, and I think the Trump administration position, is that we should be enforcing those rules and policies.

14:08Congress wants to change it. You're free to change it. So you think you have jurisdiction over political satire under the public interest standard and the news distortion standard, just to put a fine point on it? My position is that one is a yes or no. Do you have jurisdiction or not? We have jurisdiction with respect to the broadcast airwaves uniquely to ensure that their operations are in the public interest. There's very specific rules. So if there's a determination by the Federal Communications Commission that satire is not in the public interest, you believe you have the authority to revoke the license of the broadcaster?

14:51That's not my position at all. My position is if the use of the facilities is in the public interest. Then let me clarify the question. Satire that's not broadcast hoax, that's not news distortion policy, is perfectly fine. But I also don't understand the conversation about what satire are we talking about? Where was their satire? We're not doing the questions in this direction.

15:14Ben Meiselas:More cross-examination from him as well. Let's play this clip. I'm asking you, do you think it is appropriate for you to have an opinion at all in your official capacity about what a comedian says, as offensive as it may have been? Senator, my job is to implement the law passed by Congress. And Congress has said that broadcast is fundamentally different, that there's a public interest standard. Do you think there are any precedent on this? Do you think there are any conservative commentators or conservative comedians or conservative satirists that ever say anything offensive that you would consider investigating?

15:53I'm not looking at things that are offensive or awful, to use your words. I'm looking at things that are consistent with our public interest rules and regulations. That's the full scope. And in what way? So I'm a little confused because it seems to me that in subsequent conversations, I forgot after Ted and John Thune and Dave McCormick and others said, oh, this seems like a little much for you, chairman, that you went out and you said that was fake news. I didn't do that. This is this is fake news. I am not doing that. I'm not going after Jimmy Kimmel. And now you're saying you have a perfect right to go after Jimmy Kimmel.

16:26And I'm wondering which one it is. No, two different things. Democrats at the time were saying that we explicitly threatened to pull a license if Jimmy Kimmel wasn't fired. That never happened. That was nothing more than projection and distortion by Democrats. What I am saying is any broadcaster that uses the airways, whether radio or TV, has to comply with the public interest in it. And licenses are not sacred cows. Yes, you can do things to lose a license. But if we want to change that, that's up to Congress. And one idea, for instance, is why don't we put all the broadcast TV licenses up for auction?

16:58And if people want to buy them without the public interest obligation, they can do that. But look, there was a bargain here. I mean, you're kind of tiptoeing through the tulips here, right? Because what you actually said is they have a license granted by us at the FCC that comes with an obligation to operate in the public interest. We can do this the easy way or the hard way. These companies can find ways to change conduct and take action, frankly, on Kimmel, on Kimmel, or there's going to be additional work for the FCC ahead. Chairman, my final comment is I have actually enjoyed our relationship.

17:36I have praised you behind your back as a solid, someone I disagree with, but solid, knowledgeable person. This stuff, at least up until the last year, has been out of character, and it will not age well. and it'll not age well on the conservative side of the aisle and the liberal side of the aisle. This is not American FCC behavior. And I'm hoping we can recalibrate. Let me try to understand this. Did you have an issue when Senator Markey told the FCC to investigate Sinclair for their news activities? Was there any issue? I'm going to allow this because I was tough on you. You did ask me a question.

18:11This is the first time I'm ever going to respond to a question from a witness. I did not sign that letter.

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19:43You even defended political satire, saying in 2022, it challenges those in power. And that's why people in influential positions have always targeted it for censorship. That's why your threats against ABC and Disney over Jimmy Kimmel's political monologue were so outrageous. And here's what you said. In September of 2025, as the chairman of the FCC, we can do this the easy way or the hard way. these companies can find ways to change conduct or take action, frankly, on Kimmel, or there's going to be additional work for the FCC ahead. Now, that statement was roundly condemned across the political spectrum.

20:27Chairman Cruz called it dangerous as hell. Chairman Carr, do you regret making that statement? Yes or no? Senator Markey, thank you for the question. My job is to enforce the law as passed by Congress that includes a public interest standard. And broadcast TV is fundamentally different than any other media. We have a news. You regret making that statement. Senator, my job is to enforce the law. So you don't regret making that statement. Well, that's a refusal. Senator, I take accountability for your language, for your use, your abuse of power. You will not say that you made a mistake.

21:07Ben Meiselas:For example, Democratic Senator Klobuchar gets in on the action, cross-examining Brendan Carr, and she points out that, isn't it interesting that the only network that you're not investigating right now is Fox? Isn't that correct? Let's play this clip. Chairman Carr, in 2022, you tweeted, political satire is one of the oldest and most important forms of free speech. It challenges those in power while using humor to draw more people into the discussion. That's why people in influential positions have always targeted it for censorship. Yes or no, do you still agree that political satire should be protected speech?

21:45Yes, Senator. And whenever that satire or any other programming is over the public airways for broadcasters, There's a public interest standard and there's a news distortion rule, a broadcast hoax rule. You answered it. You answered it. Yes. And I'm just opportunity rule. I'm going to go on. That particular instance, too, had to do with speech on social media or by administrations. We're trying to shut down political speech again, an area where there is no license. There's no public interest standard. We'll get to that in a minute. You know, I believe, too, that there is no place in chilling political satire.