Arrowhead Pointing Up: Recapping the Chiefs’ Win, Plus Packers, Ravens and More

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0:33Welcome back to the Mean and Com show featuring Lenny Monday Night Football recap edition. Today, Dominique Foxworth of the Dominique Foxworth Show and I are going to talk about Commander's Chiefs. We're also going to pick some winners and woofs from the week. Maybe more of that and less of Monday night because it's not really a game that was very competitive well what I mean through the first half it looked competitive my first question for you is this through the first half when the Chiefs had their foibles at any point did you think they might lose this game um no I never thought they would lose it but I thought it was going to be a blowout and at a certain point I was like okay they'll make it close which I mean it happens so often in the NFL because the talent differential is so small that teams that shouldn't be in games find themselves in games.

1:23So I thought, especially we made it to halftime, and it was still close, and you saw that Dan Quinn was talking about aggressiveness. I'm like, yeah, they got the right mindset, but they just couldn't quite keep it going. And their defense couldn't hold it together either. I actually thought the commander's defense looked a little bit better than they've looked. I think they've made some adjustments on that side of the ball. But yeah, ultimately, obviously, the dam broke, and then the Chiefs started scoring in waves. Let's start by focusing on the Chiefs side of things. Chiefs offense first. So this is now second week with Rasheed Rice, who was a big part of the offense.

2:00I think the story of the game for me offensively, and this was actually surprising, Dominique, was it was all Mahomes out of structure in this. I thought he was just going to sit in the pocket and dice them up because the Commanders had been so bad versus quick game. And going into this, Mahomes had the lowest time to throw of any quarterback in football. but the commanders actually did a decent job of taking away his first read so a lot of his the plays he made in this game were him buying time some of it more magical than others on throws over four seconds which is extended throws basically extended plays he was eight for nine for 149 yards and three touchdowns kind of the story of it for me all of his touchdowns were over four seconds and I mean that's that's the Mahomes thing I was talking about this earlier how it feels like and I mean I don't want to overstate like anything about Patrick Mahomes or anything about anybody necessarily but like Patrick Mahomes reminds me in some ways in his style of play to how it's it feels like there was a before Patrick Mahomes that some of these things were like not really acceptable and after Patrick Mahomes where it feels like not only are they not acceptable it's like the Aaron Rodgers thing where Aaron Rodgers was doing it where it's the scramble and create a player thing but it was not something that you really looked for now and if you notice when we do like draft analysis that's a major reason why Caleb went as high as he did it's like he was doing things that was so Mahomesy so it's nice to see Mahomes doing it again and doing it in a not desperate situation as we saw last year but he still won't stop trying to run people over you saw that again he's still trying to run people over it's a interesting distinction right when he's extending plays but it doesn't feel desperate it that is a because when the The offense has struggled.

3:43He has tried to make it happen running. You saw this at times last year, even though they made it to the Super Bowl and certainly earlier this season. But it felt desperate. And I would argue the reason it felt desperate is there weren't guys on the receiving end. And that's, I think, another thing that struck me about this one. It was Kelsey and Rice all day long. And Kelsey, we're so used to seeing Mahomes extend plays and, you know, work from one side of the field to the other. And Kelsey finds his way back to him. But I think it's notable that Rasheed Rice was doing that a lot in this game, both in the field and in the end zone.

4:18DeAndre Hopkins once told me that as a receiver, when you play with a multiple quarterback, you almost have to have two plays in your brain at all times. And I had that in my mind while I was watching Rasheed Rice because there were, again, multiple times in this game where he would run his route, maybe win at times. But Mahomes didn't see him or he was not in the right person in the progression. and then he would do something else to work his way back to Mahomes. And I thought, wow, that connection is really, really important because I don't know if they win this, or they probably win, but I don't know if this offense is nearly as effective in those instances without Rasheed Rice on the field.

4:52So I think one of the things that Rasheed Rice brings that's super helpful is, and I think Kelsey does this too, is we often talk about being able to attack all parts of the field. And when we're saying that, implied in that is like, can you get deep? because, of course, anybody can get short. But I think we don't take into consideration as much as the ability to work the middle of the field because that's also stretching, forcing the defense to cover everything. And it's something that I feel like Rishi Rice does really well. He's a threat in the low middle part of the defense and the high middle part of the defense.

5:24And Kelsey does that a lot too. And he gives Mahomes so many more weapons or so many more options, I guess. And it is just incredibly stressful for a defense. Like all the things that a defense has to worry about this morning. I was trying to think from a perspective of the defense, how would I try to stop this team? And it's like, I would be aggressive and try to blitz them, but like they're a great screen team too, which that'll get you in trouble. It's just, I mean, that's why the Broncos are probably one of the more attractive teams as far as taking them on because they have a great pass rush and they're good and tight man coverage because those zones and Troy kept pointing it out during the game.

6:00It's like the problem with zones and when Patrick Mahomes buys time, zone's going to break down. It's just impossible for a zone to stay like consistent for a broken play for four seconds. Yeah. Patrick Mahomes was a 10 for 11 versus cover three in this game. Rice, all of his targets were versus zone coverage, which is consistent with how he was used as rookie season. Him and Kelsey are both answers against zone. Worthy was like the man guy last year. But I think if you're the commanders, like there's not really anything you could do. Like if they had played man coverage in this, they would have gotten killed.

6:37They don't have the guys to play man. This was it was the right approach. And and you just hope you get some turnovers. And they did in the first half. You know, you get Kelsey popping one up. Lattimore had that was a just a tight window throw. But eventually, like, again, the dam broke. Yeah, I do think it's Denver is an interesting one because I would say the Chiefs can really aggressively go after the linebackers. although they did play well this weekend. Sertan, by the way, is not playing in their, they're going to play in I think two weeks. And that's a big, big game to not have Patrick Sertan.

7:11But to put a pin in like Chiefs offense a little bit, yeah, like I think the run game is still just fine. You would have liked it to look better against this defense, to be honest. They were decent at times running it off tackle. But I think, I really believe with Rice back in the lineup, I don't really see any weaknesses. The other thing I will add, sorry, one more thing on the offense that occurred to me watching this game, like the little check down to Kelsey that went for like a zillion yards, you know, that only happens because they actually fear Mahomes throwing deep to Xavier Worthy, right?

7:49And I think that's another thing that the Chiefs, you know, they're still not like the great, they're not one of the better deep ball offenses in football. But now, and this is, I would say, actually different from last year, there's enough of a threat of Mahomes, whether it's Worthy or Taequann Thornton or, you know, or even Brown, that it's opening things up underneath for Kelsey and Rice. And I think they have to continue to maintain, like Patrick has to continue throwing downfield somewhat to maintain that. But I think that that element of his game is back and it is making things a lot easier.

8:21I mean, it's another variation of the point that I was making earlier. It's like you need to be able to credibly attack every area of the field. I mean, you don't need to. A great offense can do that, and they have all the pieces to be able to credibly attack every area of the field. And they also have playmakers, which is a hell of a luxury to have for an offense that doesn't need necessarily guys that you just give them the ball and they make something happen. They have that, too. whereas so worthy took that screen pass back like these are ridiculous plays like debo samuel like plays and it's prime he threw him a screen pass and worthy took it back all the way across the other side of the field to make a big gain out of it and you get rishi rice in the in the wildcat and you throw him a short pass like this is not even this is before we even get to mahomes creating whatever mahomes magic and then also his ability to run with the ball when you're under pressure i think the one thing that keeps this offense from being like perfect is to your point the running attack and also like their o-line like they they didn't face a great pass rush this time their o-line uh they're missing some guys in this game i i didn't realize that until i think it was like the very first drive i think it was deron pain who absolutely cooked jaylen moore uh who was playing at left tackle but so they're they're missing a couple players on the offensive line And it did show at times, like you said, it's not a great pass rush, but they were able to flush Mahomes.

9:48Like he had to make a lot of plays under pressure in this game. Yeah. We'll see if they, I mean, it seems like they're going to get Simmons back at some point. And we don't, there's not really a timeline on that, but he made a big difference when he was there. And I think that'll take this offense to another level when, and if he comes back. Do you think there's anything, Trey Smith was the other player who didn't play, who's their best player. outside of Humphrey. Did you think there's anything like from the commander's defense side before I flip it to the other side of the ball for a second?

10:18So I want to go back to what I said. I do think they actually played better than I know. I understand the score is what it is, but they were competitive for much of the game. I think they've made some adjustments, simplifying things, clearly playing more zone. They move Saner still outside. They're trying to integrate some of the younger players. Unfortunately, Saner still is really bad in this game. I'm sorry. But I thought like there were a few. Players who I thought did improve. I mean, Lattimore obviously had the pick. I thought Johnny Newton was really good in this one. He won, I noticed, quite a few times on the interior and then on that final play where he got flagged for the roughing at the end.

11:04But it feels like there might be too many holes on this defense to plug. And of course, they don't have ammunition for the trade line. Yeah, I mean, I think that's definitely the case. And then you combine it with the offensive limitations that they have when Jaden's not a quarterback. And that's like a death sentence for this team. They fought hard early. And I thought they did well when they played like tight man coverage. But the Chiefs adjusted to that and started to do like tighter condensed formations and crossing routes and started cooking. I mean, it's just the Chiefs have been through so much.

11:37They just adapt so quickly. I think you're right. They played better early on, but it's a hard – it's a real difficult thing to assess when you're playing against the Chiefs. In the first half, I don't know exactly how many possessions they got. I don't know, like four, and two of them were like turnovers. So they were good plays, but it's also like they never really like to shut them down. Yeah. Like stop them. It was like a tip ball interception, and then a really great play on the back shoulder by Lattimore. and then they scored on another drive. I don't know what, I mean, they probably can't have more than four or five on possession in the first half.

12:14So then it got to the second half and things got out of hand. That raises an interesting question for me. I know you mentioned the Broncos, but I want to like take a second to think this through. Given everything we've described about the Chiefs offense, everything that they're capable of now, the way they can attack you in zone or as you just described in May. With May, it's like that's when Andy Reid really, I feel like, shines as a play caller like scheme is the chiefs um versus zone a lot of it is like the feel of the homes the receivers but versus van a lot of it is the scheme which defense around both conferences yeah texas the texans you think yeah yeah i mean i think the texans have they can they can play and i mean i think the texans and the broncos are yeah unfortunately neither team have the offense, I think, to be as scary to make them a favorite.

13:07It wouldn't be a favorite, but I do think there's things that the Broncos offense did that could work against this Chiefs defense, which I guess brings me to that side of the ball. Watching it back, obviously they only put up seven points, Washington. It's a backup quarterback. They failed on a couple fourth downs. But I was watching them thinking, ooh, this Chiefs defense is gettable. Like Cliff Kingsbury is a smart play caller. He knows what he's supposed to be doing against this. Did you feel the same way watching them attack the weaknesses of this Chiefs defense? I was stunned at how effective they were early on in the game attacking the Chiefs defense.

13:50Yeah, I mean. Look at some of the plays I wanted to. it was a lot of like um play action which cheese defense is bad you want to get those linebackers moving either horizontally or you want to suck them up and beat them over the top quick passes to you know i mean like there's definitely run yes quarterback design run they ran zone read with mariota a few times they're like power with them too in a suite with like They were just like, this is good. Yeah, I'm looking at, yeah, they ran everything with him. The leak play to Bates for that, I watched that, because Bates is like their blocking tight end, and they just ran leak with him as play action, and that went for a big gain.

14:37And I'm watching that, I'm thinking, this works. Like, the other team should do a lot of this against this kid, because I think Kansas City defense, pass rush is just okay. I think Karloftis had some pretty impressive plays in this one. Um, but you know, and there's good corners, but the middle of the field, there's definitely gains to be had. Yeah. No, I mean, I think that they're, they aren't perfect. Obviously they aren't close to the defense that they were two years ago. They probably aren't even good at as good as they were last year on defense. But I think the, the tough thing about their defense is which situations are you going to find them in?

15:16Right. So like that, it's so rare. I mean, it's never happened before. where they had turnovers in the first two drives. And it could happen in some of these other, these offenses, or excuse me, go up against these defenses that we've mentioned, they could slow them down or give them some trouble. But that's also the question is, I think that's why we always end up leaning Chiefs is because Chiefs down by 10 with a quarter to go is not nearly as scary. So like when you think about, or I mean, it doesn't feel like the game is over. So when you think about the different ways a game could go, there are ways that the game could go that it could be over for the Broncos or it could be over for the Texans, like by halftime or by a third quarter.

15:54Like, so if you say that there's like 10 possible outcomes of the game, like six of them have the Chiefs still have a chance to win at the end. Yeah. You know, like you got to be up by like 14 or more. You got to be like about three scores at the start of the fourth quarter for me to be ready to turn my TV off. And so that's why I always end up coming back to the Chiefs. Right. But if like, I know the Broncos did come back against the Giants. Yeah, yeah. If the Broncos are down to the Chiefs by three scores, I mean, by three scores at the start of the fourth quarter, it's over. I'm assuming. I do think that.

16:30I do think the Broncos can make it competitive. Obviously, that'll be a game I preview in great detail. I'm excited for it. I do think not having Sertanis pick.

16:41One more question about the Chiefs defense before we talk about the commanders. Trade deadline is coming up. Do you think that it's worth trying to add a pass rusher? perhaps or because there's some interesting names out there i mean the two top names are afc guys who they won't probably get hendrickson or phillips but there's some of jermaine johnson i think i saw out there there's some options out there would you do it if you're kansas city would you pull the trigger try to get past rocher yeah i mean of course it always depends on what the price is right but like i i think um for this team yes uh you're not mentioning anybody that's going to require them to give up like a first round pick uh so i'd be willing to do it um i also think that like yeah uh something to bolster the pass rush would help that's one of the few positions that i feel like because we talk a lot about these trades these potential trades and there's something that i think like just a guy where i say go rush the passer that's one thing uh some of these other opportunity or options for people to add to the team it feels like it's a little bit more complicated to integrate people into a defense to make them better there's not any names that really jump out to me of a katie yeah i mean hendrickson but obviously that's the point that's like they're not gonna maybe jermaine johnson the thing is i think they need speed right and i don't know if that's going to be available to them at that position um i think carloptis was good in this game though he had some pretty sandana had a few big wins too Jones has just not been dominant this year, and I think that's kind of where this is falling apart a little bit.

18:19But they're still well-coached enough, and they're playing complementary football, so it doesn't matter. The Commanders on the other side. So no Jane Daniels in this one. To your point earlier, though, it's not like the offense was non-functional. Honestly, watching some of the quarterback play around the league and some of the backup quarterback play, I was watching Marcus Marietta thinking, this isn't bad. This isn't actually. it's just you know I think like I mean there's a lot they didn't they're not running the ball the way that they were when Daniels was on the field for obvious reasons and there's just inconsistency with Mariota Daniels I assume is going to be back next week I mean what is your kind of state of play or what do you think the state of play is for this football team right now because you know they're falling behind although the Cowboys lost too that helps but but the Eagles are on the upswing.

19:12The regression prediction is coming true. That's honestly what I think. I don't think that they are having – I mean, I know that they're not having the season that they expected. I don't expect some sort of turnaround. This is a much older team than you would think because obviously we think about the quarterback as a team, but their top two receivers are over 30 or close to 30 at least, and their best players or most important players on defense are all up there in age. So it's going to be – this isn't working. So maybe they believe that with Jaden Daniels healthy, everything will be different.

19:51But it doesn't feel like this year is going to be the year for them. And it might be a dramatic offseason if they want to address some of the problems that they have. Yeah, next two games are the Seahawks and Lions. So it's not getting easier. I think offensively I'm not terribly concerned like you said there's some age but they're fine the line is fine I think things will be fine defensively I thought this was going to be a bad defense this was my biggest hesitation about this team coming into the season I did not think this would be a good defense and they've not been a good defense obviously losing Dorrance Armstrong who was their best pass rusher hurts but even with him this was not a particularly good unit I think trey amos has flashed enough like i said newton played well so it's not like they're devoid of young talent i just think there's multiple positions on this roster where they have to get younger and faster because that's the what i feel watching them i mean i guess i say that though but like saner still is young but i just didn't think he played well so they gotta um i feel like if especially if they want to play as much single high as they play They've got to really change their personnel and really approach this offseason intentionally.

21:07Yeah, I mean, I think it'll be interesting to see what decisions they make, what direction they go. If they want to double down on what they have already in place and try to pull one more year out with the aging players that they have or try to start to bring in a bunch of new young guys. And I think you're right. The offense is less of a concern, but they certainly need to get some receivers to be ready to take over at some point. The defense is less clear. It's not an obvious direction to go. Like the offense doesn't need an overhaul. They need a pass rusher. They need a young edge. Yeah. I mean, yeah, of course.

21:45That's one of those things that like it's next to quarterback. is like um or it's something everybody always needs and so few teams actually have yeah uh if they're that's a hard thing to address like if you're in the top 10 top 15 okay yeah you definitely should get a pass rusher if you need one it's hard for me to say like this offseason you guys need a pass rusher maybe they'll be able to attract someone free agency or do a trade or something like that to get someone that they know will be effective but if you're drafting a pass rusher to be immediately impactful. Like that's another position.

22:19I don't know the stats on it, but like it feels like it's a hit or miss position. Sometimes there are guys that I can go down a list in my head because we're talking about Washington. Chase Young comes to mind as a guy that's like, can't miss, got to be perfect. And then it doesn't always materialize in the way that we expect. Just thinking about the last five as you're talking about. I mean, there's been a lot of good edges drafted in the last, obviously, Hutchinson. There's a lot of guys. Anderson. Yeah, Anderson's incredible. I mean, Verse, Chop Robinson. I don't know. I mean, there's been some pretty good ones.

22:55Jalen Phillips, you just mentioned him. Jalen Phillips. It's funny, though, how a lot of these guys are trade options, like Jermaine Johnson, right? We were just talking about potentially Thibodeau. I don't think he's going to be traded. But anyways, tough, tough one for Washington right now. A lot of issues with that roster. I think we both agree. Let's come back. Obviously, Chiefs is going to talk about they got upcoming in with the Bills. So that'll be a long one on the preview with this week with Ben Solak. Come back. Let's talk about the winners. As you know, managing maintenance, repair and operations is never easy.

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24:44So level up your grill game and your outdoor chill game. And head to Wayfair.com to get your outdoor space ready for the season. Wayfair, every style, every home. All right. It was hard for me to pick a winner. I was deciding between a few. I really wanted to talk about the Eagles run game, which was magnificent this week. Explosives back. So I was truly considering that Drake May is perennially in this category, but to go up against a good defense, very impressive. But I decided to go with Jordan Love, which, you know, I don't want to talk out of both sides of my mouth here and say, on one hand I poo-pooed Joe Flacco for going against the Steelers defense and then I can't be you know over the top with my praise of Jordan Love but to me this is like a season-long thing right he's been playing really outside of like the Browns game he has been excellent all year long so I think it's just time to take an opportunity and to talk about the Packers offense because I find it both inspiring and frustrating at the same time yeah I think I find it more frustrating than than you do but it's hard to find it frustrating after sunday night like that was that was it would have been hard if you ended the game at halftime having a very different conversation what okay let i know i just said it was a winner right i mean the same thing just happened to the chiefs it's like yeah the football it's all four quarters um i will say this about the packers i was like trying to isolate like what is it that's bothering me so much about this team i think matt lefleur is a very good play caller i mean in the second half some of like he was carver love was amazing but also i thought some of the play calls were excellent i also think he needs to take the governor off this offense in this game jordan love averaged 3.6 air yards per attempt on first and second down which is like barely more than aaron rogers And on the season, he's 5.4, which is 29th in the league on first and second down.

26:55So I think the reason for that, there's probably a multitude of reasons, injuries at skill players, the sense that the offense is very yak oriented. Their best player is a tight end. Talk about him in a second. And also, I think the offensive line was so banged up. I think that's all factored into this. But I also feel like LaFleur thinks his run game is better than it is and is a little bit too conservative right now. And I think that is contributing to some of my personal frustration or feeling that this offense is being has untapped potential. And you don't think it has anything to do with Jordan Love?

27:39Maybe, but Jordan Love ain't turning the ball over, man. I don't know. My wish just got so high there. Yeah. And he hasn't had that problem in a long time, but I do think that it's possible that Matt LaFleur believes that the reason why that problem isn't here is because he coaches the game more conservatively. That would be my best defense for Matt LaFleur. I'm here for fun though. So like I'm with you. Loosen it up and let it rip. But this is the problem with winning. I know it's a dumb thing to say. Kick you apart? No, it's just like when you're winning, you're less prone to change anything.

28:23And they've been winning. And having an eye for the future and trying to make the best version of your team, which it could potentially open you up. It's the same conversation we've been having about the Eagles, too. is like whatever you're doing is not working. Try something different. And they're like, we're winning. We're winning. And so it's easy from the side to say you should be more aggressive and you get more out of your offense. And I've been saying it about the Eagles and the Packers, but I also recognize that if I'm in that spot, like we got a lot of talent. We're not going to blow this in any way.

28:56We're going to try to win as many games as we can. But I mean, I think ultimately I'm with you with Jordan Love. Obviously he has the ability to make any throws, so be more aggressive. And they're not running the ball well. They're just not. They kind of got it going in the second half with Wilson. So, you know, that's something. I think that's one thing that gives me a little bit of pause about this offense. But something that makes me very encouraged has been the return of players like Christian Watson, who, like, I think people forgot is a good player. Like, there's a reason why the Packers gave him, you know, money this year.

29:31He really opens things up downfield. And you saw that in a way that has been a missing component of this offense. Obviously, they haven't had Reed. And then Kraft, man. Yeah, it's good.