Bear with Me: An NFC North Preview

35:20These are like all of those absences are going to be felt even as much as this roster is set up for success, just purely from a personnel standpoint. So I don't have a great answer for you, Mina. Other than Jared Goff is more of a veteran. I think that matters a lot. I think the fact that these skill players are almost exactly the same, right? They kept everybody. That helps a lot. These guys know the offense. They're not reinventing the wheel here. um my ben ben solak pointed out when we did the offensive top 10 offenses pod that they did keep hank fraley who was the offensive line coach who seattle considered as a coordinator so that really helps in terms of continuity with the run game but um to your point i'm actually more worried about the interior of the offensive line than the coordinator change at least the coordinator change i think they can figure out even if he struggles or maybe there's certain games where they're missing the you know ingenuity and game planning uh the often interior the offensive line is something I'm just gonna have to see to you know get a feel for whether or not it's gonna be an issue can Tate Rattledge play center right for them um you know Mahogany was good last year when he played uh but it's still a change still a change you know with uh so uh yeah that's concerning um i have been so impressed by jared goff over the last few years i think he has become really like his best self in detroit and he's absolutely a core i believe firmly that he is absolutely a quarterback that you can make a deep playoff run with if you can go to the bend in the super bowl right that said lions fans don't kill me pressure is still an issue last year, for example, when he was kept clean, second QBR, pressured, 20th.

37:09When he was pressured on third down, he was 31st with a QBR of 1.8. It's just not his game. He's tough. He gets rid of the ball quickly. And because this team is so good at running the ball, he's often not in third and long. So this is not like a death knell issue. But when we're talking about big games or things are tight if this interior does not improve over the course of the season if they don't grow together this will be the thing we're talking about at the end of the season on what is otherwise a juggernaut of an offense well and it's it's so crucial too because of the fact that you know what's the quickest way to the quarterback it's through the interior and who is jared goff he's not a scrambler he's not a guy that's going to run around and buy you time in that way he is a drop back your pass or a pocket passer.

38:00And he needs, we talk about it. We need the clean pocket. And I mean, the play, play action will help. I think that again, that will continue because it's so ingrained in this offense, just in general, even in the personnel, you know, you can kind of mitigate the rush in that way. And having a really bad-ass run game helps out tremendously with a guy like Jameer Gibbs, who can do so many different things. And then a bowling ball and David Montgomery to get you those tough yards in those short yardage situations. But at the end of the day, Jared Goff needs to be upright in order to really, you know, for this offense to function at the level that it has, be as potent, you know, as it has been and score as many points.

38:41So that's what I am also, again, most concerned with. Like I said, I was not overly concerned with the Lions, even with all of the coaching changes. and then Frank Ragnall retired. And I was just like, oh, oh, oh. Because then it also, it adds stuff to Jared Goff's plate too, where he might be a little, you know, a fraction of a second late to reacting because he's the one that is now making all of the identifications, the checks, the pre-snap stuff. Like he is the one having to ID everything. Whereas Frank Ragnall was so, so good at that because of the veteran that he was and able to work so symbiotically with Jared Goff on those pre-snap decisions.

39:20And now it's like, all right, is Jared, you know, his mind is going to be elsewhere trying to make up for that because you can't expect a rookie to do that, a rookie center to do that. And that's the thing is Tate Rattledge has taken, at least so far in OTAs, they did not have minicamp either because they have the Hall of Fame game. Tate Rattledge, though, has been in that center spot, and you have to think that that's why he was drafted as insurance. Yes, he was coming. This was not like a surprise to them, the Ragnow thing. Like, we're not saying that, like, whoa, they didn't, they've clearly been preparing for this.

39:52They have continued to invest in the offensive line. This is a very well-run franchise. But going from one of the best players in football to a rookie, it's undeniably something to monitor. I forgot to mention this step, by the way. I was talking about Jared Goff struggling on third and third, when he had pressure on third down. Lions did have the shortest distance to go on third down in the NFL. So, again, that mitigates that. Test to the run game, yes. Test to the run game. The other thing that mitigates it, any concerns I have about the offense maybe taking a small step back, is I think this defense is going to rock.

40:22I had them, I think, six in my top ten. Let's start there. Are you surprised by that? Is that too high? Or how do you view this defense overall going into the season? No, I've loved this defense for a long time. and they've been unfortunately bitten by the injury bug, which has just kind of made their production not what it could have been. And I loved the pickup of DJ Reed this offseason. I think that was needed. But getting Aiden Hutchinson back, I do think that they aren't going to rush anything with him and we maybe can't expect the Aiden Hutchinson we knew to start the season. But especially with those interior guys, I mean, I've just been shouting Aleem McNeil's name from the rooftops.

41:09for the last couple of years because of how much he means to this defense up front and how little credit he gets for it. So a lot of those advantageous situations, yes, even if you double team Aiden Hutchinson, he can usually get past those. But a lot of those advantageous situations that we've seen for Aiden Hutchinson are because of guys like Ali McNeil on the interior of that defensive line. And then on top of that, the linebacking core in Detroit also, I don't think, gets the credit that it deserves between Jack Campbell, who was their first round pick a couple years ago. And then Alex Anzalone, I remember sitting down with Aaron Glenn when they drafted Jack Campbell, talking to him about Jack and what the vision was.

41:48And the vision was for him to be the middle linebacker for the next 10 to 12 years for the Detroit Lions. And so they are very pleased with his progress. He kind of falls into that, you know, inside linebacker. I mean, I worked with Levante David for so many years where you don't have the gaudy stats, but you are so incredibly crucial at directing traffic on the interior, going sideline to sideline. And that's something that Jack Campbell has increasingly gotten better at as, you know, he's been developed in this scheme. And that's a testament to guys like even Kelvin Shepard, who has now taken over as defensive coordinator.

42:23I'm really excited to see kind of the continuation of this defensive scheme and the evolution of guys like Jack Campbell under Shep, because this is something that Aaron Glenn has prepared at four for years at this point. It was always a matter of when, not if, that Kelvin was going to take over somewhere and be a coordinator because that's just how good of a coach he is. And between that and Alex Anzalone, this linebacking corps just doesn't get the, I think, credit it deserves for anchoring this entire defense. We often see these young linebackers take a couple years to really figure things out in the NFL at Campbell.

43:03I think, you know, in coverage, um, you definitely saw some improvement. There's still some lapses, but there's, again, when you think about the developmental curve, like linebackers in the league, there's absolutely reason to think he could be better this season. And also the spine, like you said, is so strong. I mean, we talked about the DTs, uh, the drafted Tyleek Williams, by the way, he's a big run, much needed run stuffer. And with McNeil being injured at the start of the season will be important um the safe this is arguably the best one of the best safety room yeah in the nfl ryan branch i didn't even get there and yeah it's crazy i mean and then again speaking of young players darian arnold most penalized db but you saw the flashes of sticky coverage he takes a step forward dj reed and as rega straw comes back it's just a very deep very good group and obviously the hope is with Hutchinson back and with fewer injuries, they don't have to blitz on literally every town.

43:58Every. I know as well. You saw that too at the beginning of last season when Hutchinson was still in there. Like they weren't. It was a very healthy kind of split as far as four-man rushes went and blitzes. But like, I mean, as the injuries started to pile up, you just, you could literally see the wheels in Aaron Glenn's head turning like, well, I guess we're just going to have to send more guys. Like we have no other choice. When they didn't, when they blitzed over the course of the season, they were 13th in yards per play. When they sent standard pressure, they were 29th in yards per play. They just weren't able to get to the quarterback and affect him enough to not give them time.

44:39So, yeah, I just think that there's enough proven stars ascending young players and savvy additions to make me excited about this unit I also think um you know they benefit from complimentary football this is a team that even though we've expressed some concerns about some changes in the offense they're still going to be hella good so uh you know they're often going they're going to be put in places where they get to get after the quarterback too and yeah so I I'm I'm very high on this defense I think to put a pin on it again. Even if the offense drops from top three to top five or six, the defense can more than compensate for that.

45:24This is still a very, very good football team. All right. Let's take a quick break, come back, and talk about a team with a lot more mystery around it, the Minnesota Vikings. The greats don't shy away from change. They attack it head on with confidence, preparation, and a clear strategy. KPMG, LLP, and their transformation professionals work with organizations across industries using advanced AI to help them move faster, work smarter, and adapt with purpose. Because in today's business environment, winning teams don't react to change, they shape it. Learn more at visit.kpmg.us slash velocity. As you know, managing maintenance, repair, and operations is never easy.

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47:02All right, we are back. I didn't talk about the Vikings offense on my top 10 offenses pod. Even though, Carmen, I could completely see a world in which this finishes as a top 10 offense. I could also see a world in which it falls behind last year. So much depends on the unknown entity that is the rookie quarterback. So let's start. You got to start there with the Minnesota Vikings. What are we hearing about JJ McCarthy? What are the expectations? Let's talk about how the offense will look the same or different. There's a lot to unpack with him, but you know you're talking to people there. You're very immersed in it.

47:45Just tell me everything you know about him. I think the overwhelming kind of sentiment I get from people about JJ McCarthy is just it's cautious optimism. Nobody is shouting from the rooftops like, oh, this kid's going to be great and everything's going to be fine. And just like, look at what we did last year. We're going to win 14 games again. No one's saying that. No one's saying that they're overly concerned either. It is just kind of, I think they have a very healthy, very realistic outlook. JJ McCarthy did go through some setbacks during his recovery process. I mean, that's something that they are first and foremost going to make sure that he is 100 % healthy.

48:23Now he said he's going to be ready to go for camp. that is that that's that's that's what the Minnesota Vikings are planning for but it wouldn't be the first if there is a setback or if we do hear something it wouldn't be the first time at this point and you want to make sure that if all of your eggs are in this blue and maize gold basket that you are going to make sure that he is ready to go for the long haul so that is a cautious optimism I think is just the best way I can describe kind of the sentiment around JJ jimicarthy at this point but i really do think i keep using this term even though i don't think it actually exists uh i think they've quarterback proofed their team as much as possible now can you ever quarterback proof a team no that's the most important you know position in football but they have inflated against what they are like they are against a learning curve for jj mccarthy they are planning for the learning curve and that's evident in the work that they did on the interior of the offensive line, which is arguably the biggest concern from last season going into this year.

49:24I really, really like this offensive line now, especially if you get Christian Derrissaw back healthy right away, which isn't a guarantee right now. They're hoping, I think, but there is a very real chance he will not be ready to start the season. However, knowing Christian Derrissaw, he will do everything he can to be there and be out there. And I do still think that Kristen Derrissaw and Brian O 'Neal are two of the best, one of the best tackle tandems in the league. And you did all that work on the interior. I think that Ryan Kelly can really be kind of maybe one of the steals of this free agency period this offseason.

50:01I really, really loved that pickup. And especially, again, this is what I was begging the Bears to do when it came to Caleb Williams. Very similar logic, right? Yes. We got these because essentially we're hitting reset on Caleb, hitting reset with J.J. McCarthy. Let's give them centers. Let's focus on bolstering. Both teams took a very intentional approach to bolstering the interior of the offensive line. Yes. And this is everything I wanted to see. And so I'm excited about it. And for that matter, the Minnesota Vikings also took a very intentional approach to beefing up the interior of their defensive line.

50:35So I loved all of their moves this offseason. And again, it was about making sure that they could play complementary football to insulate against the inevitable learning curve that's going to come with jj mccarthy making his first starts that's what i want to talk about complementary football um because you know we keep talking about this offense like being like a lamborghini and jj's just being given the keys to it and obviously this is alongside the eagles like the best group of skill i mean just ridiculous right tight end talent um but they were not good at running the football last year and And they knew they weren't good at running the football, right?

51:18This is a team, I'm talking about this, I faced second most too high in the NFL. This has been the case for a while. But Kevin O 'Connell didn't want to slam his head against the wall and get negative runs and set back the offense. One thing that caught my eye when they were in 11 personnel, they only ran the ball 25 % of the time because they were awful at it. So again, to go back to your statement, this was not a balanced offense. Kevin O 'Connell comes from the Sean McVay tree. He wants to tie the run and the pass together. And I would argue that's integral for J.J. McCarthy, who is coming from this very run-heavy play action offense, where he thrives throwing the ball over the middle of the field.

52:05So I believe that the investment that they've made in the interior of the offensive line, which was their undoing in the postseason in some ways, is as much about running the ball better as it is about protecting J.J. McCarthy and helping him with the veteran center. Because when you asked me, like, what is it going to take for him to succeed? They got to run the football better than they have the last few years with this young quarterback. Well, and again, their moves reflected that whether it be the interior of the offensive line, which should open up those rushing lanes and really make it like easy on J.J.

52:34McCarthy and more of what he was used to at Michigan. But they re-signed Aaron Jones, but then they signed Jordan Mason. And I don't really know how they got Jordan Mason and just kind of snatched him right up. And I just think that this is now a really good tandem in the offensive backfield that can support, like you said, this kind of marriage between the run and the pass in this McVay tree offense. And they live in 11 personnel still. And they're going to run it out of 11 personnel, but just to have the change up of those backs and have the opportunity to go 21 whenever they want and kind of switch into that.

53:14I'm very excited to see Kevin O 'Connell do that because it's not something that he's really had. They tried to do it with Alexander Madison and that just didn't work as the second back. And again, it was really like banging your head against a brick wall. Like, we want this to work. We want this to work. It just didn't. But now I think they have the opportunity to do that. I like him. I... did think that was a sneaky pickup they traded a fifth rounder for him so it's basically and you know he doesn't have a lot of wear he's a young young guy played one season really um i always like looking at the next gen stats uh rushing yards over expected per carry and he was third amongst all back this is isolating what trying to isolate statistically what the back is doing separate from the blocking you know and the in accounting for defensive positioning so third amongst all running backs with 100 plus carries jordan mason so that's there's an advanced stat a few advanced stats that favor him i think it's a good marriage with aaron jones um you know we don't even have to talk about the receivers the one thing we should note we talked about this before is jordan addison uh has a trial going on involving a reckless driving charge i think i saw it reported it could be a three gain suspension i don't want to say that firmly obviously that's something to monitor because while this is a very talented group, it's a very top heavy group, right?

54:39So, and Jordan Addison was very good last year. So losing him, I think would be pretty, pretty bad for this offense, but we'll see how that one plays out. Yeah. The drop off, you know, after Justin Jefferson, Jordan Addison, I mean, your, your third, your third highest receiver in terms of workload in the artist titles is TJ Hawkinson. So you're not, those, all those pieces are going to be integral to being consistent too like you i god forbid justin jefferson gets hurt or is out of the lineup or anything like that because then this offense really doesn't have anywhere to go and you want as much available to jj mccarthy as he kind of evolves and gets comfortable in this scheme and with you know football at the nfl level yeah i think about jj mccarthy when it's working he's throwing the ball deep over the middle of the field, something he's very good at.

55:33So Jordan Addison, I think is really important in that regard. Obviously, Jefferson is the guy, um, they would probably lean heavily into the two tight ends, right? They re-signed Oliver. He's like one of the better blocking tight ends in football. So, you know, I'm, I am optimistic. I kind of revisited my McCarthy notes and, you know, I, there was, I liked the pick. I thought he was a good fit for this offense. I thought he needed to work a little bit on touch throwing outside but he's athletic he's good throwing on the run he brings a little bit of mobility to the offense and he has a strong arm and he can throw them over the middle of the field so I think I think he brings more mobility too than he really gets credit for I mean that's what I you know some of the things that I've heard from either you know people that scouted him in college or some of the guys that have been with him in Minnesota so far like he's very athletic and that's that's something that they're playing they they would plan on utilizing provided he's 100 healthy which is why i think there's such an emphasis on making sure that he is 100 because they want to utilize that part of his game too defense uh i had them in my top 10 i was very high on them i think the biggest question is can this pressure can the pressure which has been i've talked about the brian flores defense and how they get pressure and how unique it is structurally and all of that, can it still be good enough or potentially even better to mitigate what I believe is a very weak cornerback room and sneaky suddenly, you know, you lose Cam Bynum, the safety room, Harrison's a little older too.

57:10So I think can they continue to stress quarterbacks enough to compensate for that with pressure and scheme? That to me is the big question. It is. and that's kind of where Brian Flores, I think, wants to live, though. Although I will say that I do think, and this is, you know, probably echoing Minnesota fans who are very pro-Brioran Murphy and don't want him to get lost in the shuffle, you know, doesn't get the credit he's due. There's a Byron Murphy hive within Vikings fans, and I appreciate it. Listen, I think that you're right. They're right. He did not get kind of some of the credit that he deserves, and they believe in him as a corner.

57:47But to your credit or to your point, that's not necessarily where Minnesota wants to live. They want to live up front and with all of these exotic packages, the blitz rate, the simulated pressures, all of that kind of stuff. Actually, there's a funny, I called it kind of a laughable stat, but it's, I mean, it's a real stat. It's just, it's one of those things that you look at and you go, what? Which there are so many for Brian Flores, for the record. But it was specifically some of the advanced pass rush metrics where it was the line of scrimmage defender drop rate. So how many times you have defenders that are lined up on the line of scrimmage dropping into coverage?

58:2649.8 % of the time, Flo is dropping defenders from the line of scrimmage into coverage, which is insane. He's asked Harrison Smith, who is 47 years old at this point, to do that. And I've talked to Harrison Smith about that at various points, just being like, how? um and it's it's it's just sheer will belief i don't know you're like well he wants me to do it i'm gonna go do it and it's it's really just the most like just how multiple the front can be is really fun for me i love watching his game there's i mean they also they blitz six at the second highest rate in the league too so like sometimes when and that's what that's what adds to honestly the simulated pressures and why they're so effective too is because sometimes when there are six guys on the line of scrimmage, he is breaking all six.

59:15And it really keeps an offense guessing. I was actually at a pass rush summit last week in Tempe, Arizona, where Jonathan Grenard and Dallas Turner were working out. And this is the dead period of the NFL. This is where the guys get to go on vacation. And this is really like six sacred weeks, I always say, of time where these guys actually get off. We were between mini camp and when training camp starts up. Well, in 115 degree heat, which I don't have to tell you about, Mina, Jonathan Grenard and Dallas Turner, attached to his hip, were working out at BT Jordan's pass rush summit in the bubble on Arizona State's campus, which was fun for me because I went there.

59:58So I'm sitting there and I'm watching this and Jonathan Grenard is going through these individual pass rush drills with his helmet on. he's got like I mean you know he's just in regular workout clothes but he like you know put his helmet on so he could work on his pass rush moves like with all of that and throughout the entire time Dallas Turner was right there with him and I had a chance to kind of talk to Jonathan a little bit about the development of Dallas and and how much he's taking responsibility for it and trying to help him along too so that they have that chemistry as those bookends and then you add obviously Andrew Van Ginkle into that whole mix and then it just gets to be real fun.

1:00:34I'm so glad you brought that up because I think something, there's a couple of things that I think are key to all of this, I guess, for Minnesota, the pressure question. One is like how much of Dallas Turner, not really seeing the field as much as his draft status would suggest had to do with the fact that he was just playing behind and Jonathan Grenard and Andrew Van Ginkle. Can he take another step? I do think that some of it is just those two guys being awesome and a perfect fit for the scheme. I mean, Jonathan Grenard was awesome last year. Gingold was crazy, of course. Jonathan Grenard was second amongst all edges and pressures, which I was like, really?

1:01:15When I saw that, I couldn't believe it. But it was 84. Ahead of Henderson.

1:01:23On the interior, the Vikings didn't have a defensive tackle in terms of pressure rankings until 39. That was Jihad War. So that brings me to the other thing, which is can either one of Jonathan Allen or Javon Hargrave, or the two veteran defensive tackles they brought in, give them more juice rushing on the inside? I think that could be one of the questions that swings this for them in terms of like, what's the difference between being good and great? And I really don't think that they would have been so eager to sign in Minnesota too, if that wasn't the case. And you look at it, obviously they play completely different positions, but you look at Harrison Smith, like I said, he's 47 years old.

1:02:03He's not, he's 36. I forget. I think he's my age. The oldest player in the league, you know, or ancient, whatever. He talks all the time about how, I mean, Brian Flores is able to get so much more out of these guys because of the multiplicity of the scheme and how much it thrives off of a rotation. And yes, you're going to ask your guys to do some things like, again, drop into coverage off of the line of scrimmage. And I don't think John Allen and Javon Hargrave are going to be exempt from that. So get ready, guys. But I do think that having that rotation is crucial not only to keeping these offenses guessing and on their heels, but it also keeps these guys fresh on the interior and it prevents it spreads out the workload a little bit more.

1:02:43And especially when the pressure can come from anyone, can be brought from anywhere, it's not all on those front four, front five guys to constantly be the ones to bring pressure. And so I really do think that it kind of can expand or extend the lifespan of some of these guys' careers, or at least that's the thought process behind adding guys like this. And I do think that that's going to bring a lot more juice. I mean, I know that these guys are technically in the twilight of their careers or entering into that but if anybody can figure out just how much they have left in the tank and how to maximize it I think it's flow and I'm really excited about that for those guys and I think it makes the Minnesota defense that much scarier I'm optimistic I wouldn't hate it if they brought in the free agent corner Gilmore still there even from depth like just just from sheer like depth purposes just you know because again we're not asking this defense to be good we're asking them to be great they already are great of course um but you know just sustaining that level of play is very hard but you know they have um one of the two or three best defensive coordinators in football so that helps a lot low energy unfocused foggy you might be dehydrated Gatorade Zero Powders have been scientifically designed to help improve hydration balance in the body with a clinically proven electrolyte blend and no artificial colors or flavors.

1:04:12Great tasting hydration no matter where you're going. Shop now online or at retailers nationwide. Gatorade hydrates better than water. Is it in you? Symptoms noted are signs of mild to moderate dehydration. Consult a healthcare professional if symptoms persist. This episode is brought to you by Facebook. So you were scrolling on Marketplace, and there it was, the bike you'd been searching for. You sent a message, and it turned out the seller was super chatty, kind of funny, and an avid cyclist. The next thing you know, you're in a cycling crew. Well, a community cycling group. The thing about Facebook, you might find more than what you're looking for.

1:04:51From a browse to a bike ride, this summer, find more on Facebook. In ESPN's Wild World of College Football, every Saturday begins with a ritual. And then the migration turns to mayhem. Predators hunt. Territories are defended. Rivals clash. In this Wild World, legends are unleashed on Saturdays. No one brings you closer to the wild than ESPN. College Football on ESPN continues Labor Day weekend. Witness the Wild on ABC ESPN and the ESPN app. Okay, let's wrap with the Green Bay Packers, who also have a very good defensive coordinator. Continuity, though, in terms of both sides of the ball, not losing anyone, their coaching staff.

1:05:39Let's start again with the offense. Jordan Love is such a funny one. I feel like I'm higher on him than a lot of my peers. These quarterback rankings are coming out, and i'm seeing he's been definitely bounced from the top 10 in a lot of these lists um it's funny because i was looking at some of his splits trying to figure out like what went wrong what went right where can he improve but it's really not like oh jordan love was bad at this one specific thing or great at this one specific thing he when you look over the course of the season he finishes like very high in advanced stats and just about everything other than throwing interceptions under pressure, which is the thing he has to, um, but the Brett barb in him, it just, yeah, you know, he just can't resist it.

1:06:28But, um, I think what I would say is it's less about like situations and more just about streaks. And I think like with him, that's what makes him kind of hard to talk about. It's like, not like you can point to something and say, he has to be better at this. There are a couple of things, but it's more just like consistency over the course of a whole season. He was dealing with injuries last year, of course, at the beginning. But like, to me, it's just like the high end play is so high that I don't see how you can be pessimistic, even if there are some streaks of substandard performance for him.

1:07:03Yeah. And I mean, it doesn't rest, all this inconsistency doesn't rest solely on Jordan Love either, because the core, the offensive core that he's throwing to was also in flux for most of the season whether that be for an injury or the fact that Matt LaFleur said he was allergic to having a wide receiver one there wasn't that guy that he could just hone in on and know hey listen like it wasn't like Aaron Rodgers with Devontae Adams or Jordy Nelson before him it was who do we have available today do we have like I mean and the Packers are also the only team that I've ever seen and correct me if you've seen someone else do this that suspends their own players like when you have like Romeo Dobbs like missing time because the team is suspending him for like conduct detrimental to the team but like without any sort of impending discipline coming down from the league it was just because the Packers wanted to make a point it's one of those things where that ultimately just hurts your team that hurts your offense that hurts Jordan Love I will say the one concern I've had with him and I am I'm much higher than him I think than most too is that so many of his highlight worthy plays and everything come from the back foot off of his back foot he's not he's very rarely set when he is throwing the ball and it just so happens that because he had a rapport with that receiver or whatever that it ends up working out but you saw last year where that really comes into play when it comes to all right I don't have the guys I'm used to around me.

1:08:32I've been in and out of the lineup myself. Now everything is off. We don't have the timing down, all of that kind of stuff. So there needs to be, I think, a more, like just more, what's the word I'm looking for? More structure. There it is. No. Yeah. He has to quit that fadeaway addiction. The fadeaway, like it's cool to watch and it's great when it works out, but I'm like, Jordan, set your feet. Like we need to set our feet. The other thing that drives me crazy with him, and I've talked about this before, there's no reason why, how old is he? Let me guess, like 25, 26? He's probably at least 26.

1:09:1026 or 26, yeah. There's no reason why 26-year-old Jordan Love, even with his injuries, should have fewer carries than Matthew Stafford. Yes. Very humble. He knows this. We talked about it at the Super Bowl. He came on NFL Live, and I was like, dude, you've got to carry the football. When they turn their back to you, he's like, yeah, it's something I'm going to work on next year. I just – it's just that's – you know, I'm not asking him to be Jalen Hurts or Lamar or – he doesn't have to carry it as much as Joe Burrow or whatever, but I just got to carry it more like that. The design – like I was looking at some of the stats on just kind of design rollouts and just how few he has and how, how rarely he does that.

1:09:58And I'm like, why can't we get that? It would help the running game too, by the way, so much if he was a threat to keep it a little bit more. I mean, I think that, you know, Josh Jacobs being as good as Josh Jacobs is really kind of like hampers the need for innovation and creativity when it comes to the run game, because Josh Jacobs is just as effective as anyone just, just being a straight runner. But But the other thing I wanted to bring up, too, was that, you know, Packers receivers had the second highest drop rate of any team last year. And so, again, and that speaks to the continuity, the lack thereof of continuity.

1:10:32And there is some stuff going on behind the scenes. And it's why I kind of even brought up like Packers suspending their own players or conduct detrimental, all that other stuff, where you do see Roman Doomsday coming out and being mad that he wasn't getting the touches that he wanted or that, you know, that he thought he deserved. and then like you have kind of this underlying thing when Romeo Dobbs Romeo Dobbs what did I say I didn't say I didn't say oh yeah all right no not not a didn't say he's a doll not the Romeo Dobbs isn't he's a really nice guy it's just you know there's egos involved in all he disgruntled last year there's no no way of and like we kind of like dismiss that because it's like oh it's the Packers and like they'll figure it out but like all of that is bubbling under the surface like you need to figure out it goes back to again more structure within the offense and we know that Matt LaFleur is capable of that because not only do you have all these wide receivers, but now you drafted Matthew Golden for the first time you've drafted a wide receiver in the first round since Jordy Nelson.

1:11:25But you wonder how long it's going to take for him to really end up being that wide receiver one. Sorry, Matt LaFleur. But on top of that, you've got Luke Musgrave and Tucker Croft at tight ends who Matt LaFleur loves to use. He loves using tight ends. And I love it when he does as well. But now that's a lot of mouths to feed. and then your only consistency your only continuity has really come from the run game on top of that so it's just there's there was just last year I just felt like it was just a little discombobulated and they still made the playoffs so like this none of this is dire I'm not saying that the Packers you know you shouldn't worry about them in fact I think it's setting them up for a really potentially really good year where we could see the Packers on the top of the NFC North again this year like that would not shock me in the least i think for things to have to go right on this offense love would have to be more consistent over the you know because again his highs are i would say a high is they're up their top three four five football but gotta see that over the course of the season i would like to see more um these receivers kind of fall into more defined roles yeah and you know this was the youngest offense in football last year and but it was the youngest of the year before it's like okay at certain point like you get you we can't keep saying well they're young and they have a lot of drops and some confusion you'd like to see some i think um you know it doesn't have to be necessarily a number one per se but like is matthew golden the designated deep threat is romeo dobbs a guy you can count on to work the short intermediate parts of the field for jordan love we know jaden reed plays more of the gadgety type role but are those those are your big three we feel good about that you know it's like okay um and i think you know the offensive line there's some questions too with walker you bring in aaron bank cigar elton jenkins is a little bit that's a you know a shaky situation with him and his contract right but where he's gonna play uh what position yeah right um there's enough on paper here though for me to still feel I had them ranked high they were in my top 10 offenses yeah but there's just you know it's and you don't want to totally lose you know the guests the guessing game of who's going to get the ball like I think that that was a strange years ago in that really deep surprise playoff run where like you legitimately didn't know who was going to get the ball because they were all capable of it and I think that that there's room for that too in all of this but it still it doesn't it can't just be the wild wild west uh up in up in green bay wisconsin i think yeah no i think the um put it plainly like we can't be talking about the offense again in the same way that we did the last two years because last year it felt like i was like okay i'm kind of saying the stuff i did the year before but they're kind of still having the same problems it's still the same highs you're still optimistic you still see the talent but then you're also like well they're young it'll come together and we'll figure out it's like, wait, okay, but now we're in year two of this group together, sort of.

1:14:30So I think you really need to see that firmed up a bit. Defensively, we wrap here. This is the defense that finished very high statistically, and a lot of metrics talked about that. At first, I was like, oh, this is very turnover dependent. And that's true. But when you dig into the underlying stats over the second half of the season, they were good in success rate and metrics that aren't dependent on turnovers. Jeff Halfley, I thought, did an excellent job of altering his scheme from college, playing to the strengths of his players. Xavier McKinney was a superstar, but you also saw young guys who they drafted just last year play really well, notably Edger and Cooper, who was amazing for them.

1:15:12Javon Bullard comes in, Evan Williams, just really, really good players. That said, still not a great pass rush. No. And I have concerns about the corner group. It really is in some ways like the inverse of the offense where it's like, young, they're talented, but is there a closer? Is there, do they have enough dudes? You really feel the same way about both sides of football, like really good, but are they great? So let me put it to you this way. Who needs to break out in this group for you to feel really good about this Packers defense? I think the overwhelming answer, not just mine, but the overwhelming answer would be Rashawn Gary.

1:15:52That's what everyone wants. He was 80 on the NFL 100 or something. He was like weirdly high in that. Yes. Yeah. Kenny Clark actually posted it too. And he was like, look, my dog. And to be fair, I will try to put Packers fans at ease a little bit because at this past restaurant I talked about, that Jonathan Grenard and Dallas Turner were at, the driving force and the most visible player that is associated with BT Jordan's pass rush summit is in fact Rashawn Gary. So Rashawn Gary has been part of it since its inception. This summit started as a nose tackle summit, but Rashawn had worked with BT Jordan before and just decided he was going to show up anyway.

1:16:31So he did, and that's how this whole thing was kind of born. And so it was him and Kenny Clark that were there. I talked to both of them extensively, just kind of about not only, you know, what they were doing there, obviously, in their time out, and what Rashawn in particular was trying to work on, because he's like, you know, listen, going into year seven, I know what I like to do. I know how to do it. But there are some tools that I want to add. There's some things I want to hone. But he was very candid with me when talking about the transition into Jeff Halfley's scheme, because this was the first time that the Packers are running a base 4-3, they're base 4-2-5, but base 4-3 in 15 years.

1:17:08And while defensive schemes are more multiple, or more, you know, kind of fluid than ever, that's the word I want to use there, when you have a certain system so ingrained in a culture, especially like the Packers, that comes through in all of the guys that you have available to you from a personnel standpoint. So there was a lot of kind of turnover and figuring out where guys fit last year. And you saw that with guys like Preston Smith getting traded at the deadline where they just realized, like, these guys just weren't going to fit into the scheme that they had. And so that also, I mean, you know, even the guys that survived and are still on the roster, they had to take last year to kind of figure out exactly where they fit in and how they can exploit their strengths to benefit the system.

1:17:52And that's what Rashawn talked to me about extensively where he's like, he loves Jeff Halfley. He loves the system, but the expectation is just that much more clear now. His role is that much more defined now. And so he, he hears everything he told me, like, he's like, I hear, you know, I know how people think of me. I know what's expected of me. I know I haven't lived up to it yet. You're 80, 100. Apparently people like you more than. I went into it kind of like a little timid too. because I kind of sat down next to him after he was done with a couple of drills. And I was like, hey, Rashawn, how are you?

1:18:26Do you mind talking to me about whatever? And we talked just kind of at length about even philosophy and pass rush philosophy. I mean, the way that Rashawn was chirping at all of the other guys just during drills, him and Walter Nolan at one point kind of got into it, the rookie out of Ole Miss. It was so funny to see that. But it was all in the name of, he was like, it's all a brotherhood. It's all camaraderie. I want to make everybody around me better. And that's not just with my position group. That's at, that's in green Bay too. And he brought up Kenny Clark multiple times who was there with him.

1:19:00And Kenny was the same way kind of talking to me just about the culture and the expectations that are instilled in them as part of the Packers organization and how they are expected to contend every single year. And I think every year that goes by that the Packers don't reach the mountaintop, they don't get to a chance at that Lombardi trophy named after their former coach um they they understand that they're taking a little bit less seriously every single time that they fail to do that so i it was really interesting to just kind of catch up with them i love that great answer i i really think that really you know rashaun if it's going to happen it's going to happen this year and yeah and he has he has very crystal clear expectations of what he's supposed to do i mean he on stands out as like okay who's your edge there's been moments where he's looked like that dude he's obviously he's good against the run he's very strong he rushes with power but you know i don't think anybody would rank him in upper echelon of pass rushers in the league it's like well okay well if not him who i mean cooper's an amazing rusher but he's an off-ball linebacker and they need him uh so yeah he i think he's one to watch you talked about the scheme change i thought uh davante wyatt at times really benefited from that the four down front.

1:20:13And I think if he's healthy, he could be impactful as well. There's good players. Like Carl Brooks is good. And Ibarre is flashed. Van Ness is fine. But there just isn't, it's very, it's frankly very similar to the wide receiver discussion where it's like, okay, but like, who's the dude? Who's the dude? They're still good. I mean, like, they're just, there's enough talent at all three levels. There's not like, I would say corner is similar to the Vikings. My biggest question about this. And that's not because they lost Alexander. I know Packers fans were like, we didn't have him last year either.

1:20:44But, you know, looking at Nixon on the outside, Hobbs, probably on the outside primarily. Maybe he'll slide inside to Nickel on Money Downs and Valentine. It's not a top corner group in the league by any means. Safety group's amazing. Linebacker group's really good. Xavier McKinney really covered up a lot of deficiencies last year. Exactly. So, you know, I do think you need a little bit more. You need – Gary, to me, is a very good answer in terms of getting pressure. They drafted also Baron Sorrell. See if he gets something – let me say his name wrong. But maybe you'll get something from him in terms of getting after the quarterback.

1:21:24But this is another defense that I think benefits from complementary football because I do like this offense a lot. So I think they'll be, you know, in good situations. And I'm high on this team, I guess, which brings me to the final thing we do here, which is trying to guess how they're all rank, the shake out. I'm so tired of this question, Mina. This is a difficult division, I think, to rank. It's so hard to do it for this division in particular. Okay, so I'm not trying to get, you know, you can answer it on your own. But I think the conventional thought is Lions-Packers-Vikings-Pairs. That seems to be the standard.

1:22:00I'm sure that's what Vegas, if I, without looking. So that's what I'll say, is that, you know, we're comfortable with that. But I could see the Packers jump in the Lions. I could see the Bears jump in the Vikings. If JJ's good, I could see the Vikings jump. These are four really good teams, all of which I think have playoff potential. Obviously, the Lions. But even the Bears, if things shake out right, could also be in the mix for a while. And the one thing I'll add to that then, because I agree with you, it's probably that that's the safe bet right now at this stage you know in July but what the one thing that I will add to that is that all right well if the Bears are going to be improved um and you're going to play this insane interdivision schedule but then also have to play the AFC North also have to play the NFC East um these wins have to come from somewhere and or the losses come from somewhere and so in the way that you know it took the Lions 15 games to win this division last year I don't see that happening this year.

1:23:07I think this is a division because, A, I think they're going to cannibalize each other. B, they have a really tough schedule outside of their own division. I think this division is up for grabs with 11 or 12 wins. And because it's up for grabs with 11 or 12 wins, then I have really no idea who ends up in that top spot. because I think all of these teams, again, with some caveats of like J.J. McCarthy is good and things go well with Ben Johnson in Chicago, but all of these teams are capable of that. So how that ends up shaking out is it's going to be really fun to watch. It's such a fun division in general, especially because all of these teams are so entrenched in tradition and they all have these storied rivalries and it's just like, you know, they all kind of hate each other.

1:23:54And it's it's so much fun as someone who got to cover it. And, you know, I now cover the whole league, but it's still near and dear to my heart. I love this division. I think it's going to be so much fun to watch, but like, I'm so tired of people asking me like, Ooh, how do you think it's going to, like, can the answer just be, I don't know. And that's fun. And that's a good thing. We can go with, we'll, we'll stick with the chalky rankings. Yeah. I am excited to watch all of these teams though. So, Carmen, I'm also excited to watch you anytime you're talking football. Can you let folks know where to find you and things that you'll be doing this summer?

1:24:31Well, all of that stuff I talked about the Password Summit, I do have an article, a couple articles actually coming out on FoxSports.com. Just kind of talking about the, you know, what all the guys were doing there and catching up with some of those guys and expectations for the Packers in particular. Got some really good stuff out of Rashawn and Kenny. So that was fun. um but outside of that uh i am also on marquee in chicago uh talking about the bears every week uh at the chicago football show so check that you can just check my social media post pretty much everything on there call me me twitter instagram blue sky i'll be post i'll link your handles when i send this out but um i was i love love hearing you talk about football but i especially do love hearing you talk about this division so i was excited to have you come join me um and i'm excited to read your passage article.

1:25:19It sounds really fun. Sounds like you got a lot of cool stuff out of these guys. Um, I will be back next week with the ASC East and the Power Rankings pod on Monday. Um, also I've mentioned this before, but I have a television movies pod that I do now with my buddy, David Dennis Jr. Uh, where we, if you haven't been watching Love Island and every time I tease it, you're like, I'm not going to listen to that. We are done with Love Island. And next week we are going to talk about Superman, the movie. We're going to do a couple of movies before getting into some other TV shows. So check it out wherever you get pods.

1:25:51Can you do a pod on time management, please? Time management? Because I don't know how you do all of these things. I know. Now it's easier with Move. Much easier now with Love Island, which I swear to God is like the biggest time game I've ever engaged in. It's even more time consuming than football. But yeah, anyways, check it out. Viewer discretion. You can look that up wherever you get your pods. I also just did a rewatchables pod where we talked about it's complicated. I'm a huge Nancy Meyers fan, so you can check that out with the ringer. In the meantime, thank you as always to my friends at Omaha Productions, our producers of this show, Kirsten Sebecki, Anthony Hymnes, Owen Saylor, Jack Foster, Tucker Taschen.

1:26:34I'll see you guys next week.

1:26:42What do you want?