Movers and Bakers: An NFC South Preview

34:20But my point is this. If he is that dude, if he is worthy of the eighth overall pick, then everyone else, I love where they slot in. I feel good about it. But if McMillan has like a Keon Coleman-like rookie season, then I think at the end of the year, we're looking back at it and like not feeling as though they did enough. So I do feel a lot depends on him living up to his draft potential. And I liked him a lot. By the end of the draft process, I was like, what am I missing here? This dude is gigantic and catches everything. Why are people turning on him as a prospect? I feel insane. So I'm high on him, but he is important.

35:02And the fit with Bryce Young is going to be curious too. And there's plenty of reasons to be hesitant on Carolina, I think. And we'll talk about the defense in a second. But you mentioned with Bryce Young, I think you said it really well. like it's not a guy that's going to drive the football that much so again when it goes back to me like how many different ways can he play how many different areas of the field and types of route combinations can he went on compared to the top guys if not and i don't think that that maybe that should be the expectation he's got to almost become joe burr like he's got to become like joe burrow-esque which he he showed signs that that isn't like the most insane thing i'm not saying he'll reach that level because joe burrow is just absolutely special and unique and how he plays.

35:40But to me, like that's the path for Bryce Young. And it's a very narrow path. If you can be as good as Joe Burrow in that narrow of a path, and I don't even, Burrow might be able to do way more than that. We just never will find out, it seems like. But with Young, if he can play that way and be that guy, then it opens up a world of possibilities for them offensively and for Ted, I think. So that'll be the number one thing to watch this year. He could also benefit from not being saddled with the worst defense in the NFL. So let's, you know, field position and all of that. factors in oh my god this defense was a nightmare last season i mean it was just poor zero ever like i don't know late in the season against the bucks when they played was that week 17 or 18 they that was the worst defense i think i've ever seen on a football field like i just i mean guys were just literally running into each other like it was a and it was almost all practice squad players who barely played yes at that point but what a mess it was you feel bad ragging on them you feel bad for the coach the whole thing who was like a head coaching candidate you know in the past where they had a great defense in denver he was with the rams he stuck around and look if they turn things around he will and should get the lion's share of credit because uh the bar is hell hell what does hell look like hell is 32nd in both success and eplay per play against the run allowing 5.2 yards per carry the eagles average 4.9 yards so they basically turned every team into the super version of the eagles um they were not better against the pass of course uh they were 32nd in pressure rate for the second year in a row uh fdm fantasy does run defense by like layered levels of the defense i was like looking at that to try to diagnose the problem right like you'll have a defense um i think the charges were like this or were the, they're, you know, they're really bad up front, but maybe good at linebacker level.

37:38They were 32nd in stuff rate, 32nd in adjusted line yards, 32nd at the second level, 32nd. Like it was every level failed to stop the run. So they go out, they add some big dudes, Bobby Brown from the Rams, Tershawn Wharton. These are not sexy names, but they are competent NFL players. Derek Brown returns, which is of course massive um they added some edge players as well i want to get to they also added christian roseboom from the rams don't have to get into that uh do you feel that this will run defense will uh be improved because that was just the biggest biggest problem with this team yes it will definitely be improved or not to be yeah because there's no like you said the bar is hell and also because derrick brown is really really good and i hope he's still really good Obviously, we won't know for 100 % until he comes back from this injury fully, but I think he's really good.

38:36I don't know how much better as a pass rush group they'll be than last year, but they've given themselves more ability to certainly to do that, I think. Now, they lost Clowney. He was their number one pressure guy last year with 44 pressures. The next closest player, do you want to guess how many pressures the next closest player had on the season? 27. 26. Very good, Mina. that it was dj want you want to yeah vikings legend vikings legend and he is still in this rotation as is uh patrick jones will be here too they signed him as a free agent princely omad miellen and nick scorton who they drafted in the second and third round so they really did go out and they said you know what we're going to do it by committee there's these stars don't change i know we have talked all off season about well dj walkie trader will miles garrett get trader will michael parsons get traded will trey andrickson get traded will max crosby get traded that was early we haven't seen any of them get traded folks and i don't think we're going to those guys don't just so who can you get and that's what they did they did the best with what was capable what was available to them i think in a lot of ways and we'll see i like princely i wasn't as high on squarton flip their spots maybe you can talk me into it i think they'll be better for sure they certainly again it's more upside you did see atlanta and carolina spam the position of need and recognize it's so important.

39:53If you don't have that one guy, the Chris Jones, the Nick Bosa, that are playing in the Super Bowl every year because they're just so good that make the rest of the unit go, you better be eight deep. And now Philly's got one of those guys too. But for years they've just been, okay, we're just going to be eight deep and we're going to be all good. And they didn't have the one star once Fletcher Cox was aging. And so I think Carolina and Atlanta have said they've recognized the need. They've recognized what wins in the NFL. So I don't think it's as much of a recognition problem. Now we just have to find out, do they have the talent and the coaching to put it all together?

40:25And I think plenty of reason to be skeptical still about both, even if there's more upside here than there used to be. They tried to add Milton Williams. You remember that? That's right. Right. But yeah, your point about the lack of edges of it, like Josh Swett was the best free agent. And he got the big contracts. This is not a great group of free agents. Clowney's still out there. So they might bring him back. Yeah, he might come back. But yeah, they basically took, took, sorry, it's too far away from my mic. They took the Atlanta approach, but without spending, they spent like half as much as Atlanta did more than half.

41:03There's a little less than that. They chose, I think, correctly the receiver in the first round because the Bryce Young part of this equation is the most important part. You are, I know, really big on watching the edges out of the draft. I don't think I talked much about Nick Scorton or Princely, who were second and third round. I think Nick was second, right? And Princely was third. Are you optimistic about either of those players? If you had to place your bets on one of them, maybe popping, who would it be? It would be Princely for me. I just think a really nuanced pass rusher who knows how to rush and how to move, really good bend and flexibility.

41:41Then he has the inside counter and he can hit you with strength too. I think just the ability to win all three planes outside, inside, through, I think that's a really important part of rushing because it makes you really hard to be predictable to pass that against. Scorton just lacks the tools, the type of stuff that we want to see from an edge rusher. If you're talking about burst off the ball, if you're talking about bend and flexibility at the top of the arc, how fast do you play and change direction and cross face to threaten the inside shoulder? like he just really didn't have those things and when he was when he went up against nfl caliber guys at tackle they really raced him and took him out of games and i think that was membow when he faced membow it was just erased and kind of taken out of the game princely has way more in the bag i think so that's where i'm more excited about him scorton plays hard though and i've tossed around his weight's gone all over the place he's been in the 280s he's been in the two now i think what in the pre-draft process he was way down in his weight where will he play will he be sort of an inside sub guy eventually in his career and kind of find his way there but he plays really hard super physical type of guy you want in the locker room for sure but i think princely's probably the more talented rusher right now derrick brown will certainly create opportunities for these edges if he plays like he did before injury so one hope jc horn are really good players who just haven't been able to stay consistently healthy like those guys make a big difference if they're able to stay out there horn got paid he is like they had to pay someone he he that's not to diminish him that sounds like a diminishing him i think he's a little boomer best for a number one but his booms are i would put up there with any you know any man covered corner in the nfl but he he just uh uh it gives up a little too much too many big plays for my liking and then opposite him it's it's pretty bleak they did add trevon merrick that should help on the back end a bit that's the best run defender they added i think yeah i mean he is he's not buda baker nobody is but man he will fit and i think that will matter a lot for them having a guy flying up from the third level to fit the run the way he will if they can just be like the 24th best run defense then at least they'll be competitive.

43:58I cannot stress enough how insanely bad this run defense was last year. You talked about it with the Bucs. I mean, it was, that was like the, what is it? Tonk Bond coughing baby meme that they, like it was just, all right, well, I've teased the Bucs enough. Let's take a break break, come back and talk about the wagon. That is the Bucs offense. As you know, managing maintenance, repair and operations is never easy, but for the ones who always rise to the challenge, Granger has your back. From professional-grade products you can count on to fast, dependable delivery, they're there to help you keep things running smoothly.

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45:02Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required compatibility and availability varies 18+. You know when you're locked in, focused and fearless. Welcome to the WNBA. Your vision narrows. You can't look away. Every assist, every stop, every logo three. From beyond the logo. Every did you see that moment? You bet. What records are going to be broken this season? All of it right here. Lock in. It's the WNBA on ESPN. All season long. All right. We're back. uh i was talking about the broncos defense and somebody replied to me but they didn't play anyone they only like what the bucks i was like yeah the bucks the bucks offense was unbelievable last year i feel like and i know bucks fans are screaming why didn't i put them higher in my top 10 maybe i'm overweight in the liam cohen departure we'll get into that but the like But was this like, did you feel like as a Bucs fan, the dominance and efficiency of the Bucs offense was kind of slept on last year?

46:20Because the numbers are unbelievable. Since I started covering the Bucs in 2020, I felt like everything about the team has been slept on. They won a Super Bowl. I feel like it just kind of was people went on to the next thing. And that's kind of how it is with Tampa Bay and the smaller markets a little bit. But the offense last year, yeah, I mean, I thought from a creativity perspective, was everything that you want in the modern NFL, right? I mean, the evolution of the run game is where it started and then how they built off of that with the play-action passing game, but also being able to spread the field.

46:50When you look at versatility and you talk about that kind of stuff, the word gets thrown out a ton in today's league. The 2024 Bucs were like a picture of versatility, both with their player usage and then when you talk about the personnel packages, the way they line guys up, the types of offense they'd run, and that's where I think Baker might be the most interesting quarterback back in the league to discuss because you can do a ton with him usually those are the top guys but then because he's so wild with sacks and turnovers you're not quite sure he could like lose you any game but he allows you to create to build all kinds of things he can move out of the pocket if you'd ever want him to he can play from the gun he can go from under center he can ball handle and fake and run all this trick stuff that you want him to you can go five wide and he can get the ball out and boom bing bing take you down the field and read things out quick game he can throw the ball deep like you kind of have everything with him but then you have to accept more mistakes with him than you will with the other top guys if you just watch his best play you're like this is a top five this guy belongs with my homes and them and then it fools people because he's never consistent enough for that to stabilize we've just never seen that and last year was him at his absolute best and he still is like right right up near top of the league in turnover where he plays so it kind of goes as he goes a little bit and at times they could just be like you know what we're just going to run the ball we're bakers having one of those days we're just going to go crazy in the ground it was enough i don't know if that's sustainable that was such a liam thing i don't know if grisard can match that but it was an unbelievable offense to watch because they could do so many things at a high level in so many different ways you baker the top five in a lot of metrics but then lost 25th in epa per play lost on an interception epa probably total lost and interceptions, sacks, negative plays is kind of what you're alluding to.

48:37The game planning is the thing I think that made me nervous because, and you alluded to this. So when we think about Liam Cohen leaving, this offense was so impressive in two ways for me. One was the evolution over the course of the season. Talked about this a lot with the run game, obviously, moving from more of a zone base to the gap scheme as the season went on with both backs too. A Bucs fan or Bucs writer I saw was posting about this in response to when I was posting Bucky Irving. He's right. Rashad White was great too. The line is just so good at it. And that's really, the line gives me a lot of confidence in them regardless.

49:18It just sets such a floor for them. But then also Cohen's game planning week to week. This offense looks so different all the time. Some weeks there'd be two backs, two tight ends, three wide. Sometimes Baker would be an empty. Sometime, like you said, they'd be very run heavy, which is so great, but he's gone. Josh Grizzard, I would say my classmate, but he's way younger than me, which is upsetting. Was responsible for finding plays on third down is what I've gathered. uh ben so like brought this up when we did top 10 offices this was the best third down offense in the nfl it wasn't calling the plays but he was a huge part of putting that together so how do you like you're more plugged into this organization than i am like what have you heard about him are you optimistic about his ability to repeat what cohen did because what cohen did was so special last year in my opinion yeah i mean i was i mean i don't know if you heard me on any show i was basically just like this is the kind of guy i mean and behind the scenes but believe me there's questions like what kind of how how mature is Cohen if he's the head guy like those kind of questions like what's he going to be from a communication perspective like all the administrative stuff like you just take the chance because there's only a few of these guys out in the league that move the needle so much as a head coach that you could have Jimmy Garoppolo or you know or Jared Goff early in his career now he's a lot better but like and you can still threaten to win championships because they're that good and I that's why I think he'll be really hard to place now they're really excited about grizzard i think the players were very excited that was really important to keep the players really optimistic and excited especially with the way the cone thing went down the bucks kind of have a really good sense culturally about what they need to do to keep everybody kind of on board so i think that part mattered a lot but how much can we know i mean everything there's positive the relationship with the players is great he's keeping a lot of the same stuff from last year but you said it exactly from a game planning perspective, you can't replicate another human being's brain and thought process as much as you might like to, and as much as you may try to simulate that.

51:24So in some ways, I worry that by trying to be so much of what they were last year, perhaps they realize, wait, we're missing the irreplaceable ingredient, which is Liam Cohen's brain. And we don't have that no matter how much we tried to. And so I wonder if that does hold them up, but all it is is a thought. We just don't know. They're so talented on offense too, which gets lost in all of it is that they also got like a ton of dudes so it's it's just a really good group even if the coaching is a little worse they don't have the best one two at receiver in the nfl that's philadelphia cincinnati but they got the best one two three and certainly the best one two three four in my opinion is that fair i mean i don't even talk about champagne problems yeah you don't even know when they're going 11 who's playing the most i mean mcmillan was incredible for them last year godwin's coming off the injury ibuka i don't think there's a player who after the draft i heard more from people around the league that every single team wanted him than sorry i'm saying his name wrong emica ibuka um palmer's decent too shepherd like it's it's a ridiculous group of skilled players it's a ridiculous duo of running backs it's a ridiculously good and ascendant offensive line you know i i if anything and i retro i should have had them higher on my top 10 offenses because the more i think i overweighted i know we've been talking about the cohen and how great he is but like holy smokes what a what a cabinet of ingredients guzard's getting to work with yeah i mean now worse is banged up and kate otten's banged up and so worth's gonna miss me the first couple games and kate otten hasn't practiced yet i think in camp and i think you'll be out there soon but so there's some questions but i mean the buka thing it stands out to me because you're exactly right everybody leaves ah this is the type of play and why did they say that it goes back to everything we've been saying this is how you win in today's nfl you win with guys like this every team's trying to find one now the bucks have one in godwin they saw an opportunity to get another one they know this unicorn type piece even though they just drafted mcmillan he had a good rookie year not the type of player they need to play this role and even if Godwin was they were sure was coming back healthy you don't know how much longer that's going to be with especially with his injury history and so I think they saw the opportunity to add a player like this who fit the culture very very well and was the type of player they wanted and also was a position that they feel like in the NFL today you need this guy to be able to do a lot of the stuff they want to do specifically in their offense too there I mean Mike Evans stepped in and was that guy last year when Godwin went down and he blocked more and he ran a lot of the in-breaking routes and he was a guy over the middle of the field and he was awesome but you also want him to be able to not have to do that stuff all the time so having a book and having godwin now you have insane lineup versatility and then mcmillan can be this move piece he can do some of the end around stuff he's been great in the screen game there were aspects mcmillan could do but they never felt like he could be the one-to-one replicate of what godwin offered them in terms of versatility and they didn't want evans to be that guy especially as he ages so they found kind of the perfect piece to be able to do that so it's just kind of solving modern understanding what the modern problems are in today's nfl and being able to solve them even when people aren't expecting you to that's what good organizations do and i think they've done that with the buka and we'll see i can't wait to see him in real games but i think he just fits the game really well he was my wider seer one i guess unless you count hunter as wider he was he was my he was in my he was in my top 10 in the draft i thought because i just thought the fit in the nfl is perfect the worst injury is obviously a big deal yeah um maybe i've you know i i'm you said maybe a couple games if it's two or three games you know this division i'm not freaking out too much but if it stretches on then we start to get worried i mean he's arguably one of the two three best left tackles in football some would say the best so that's obviously massive uh charlie heck i think is playing for him right not school so cool don't want to take yeah yeah and especially because we talked about baker and the sacks and interceptions um it's just we're like wow baker mayfield so good yeah because whatever yeah everyone's constantly there's a lot of there's a lot there's all it's never just one thing it's always a lot of things and one of the reasons is he's got one of the best left tackles in the league protecting his blind side and i think with baker's propensity to hold the ball, it will matter if he's not consistently playing on time and playing within structure, which can be ebb and flow for him.

56:03So we'll see. I mean, Cohen, he clearly had such faith too in the structure of Cohen's offense last year, and he played so much faster and the ball was coming out quick and brought the average depth of target down. So we'll see if he builds on that. So the flip side though of doubling down at receiver, we can sit here and praise it and be like man who's even like just you know so many footballs to go around well the flip side is they didn't add an edge or linebacker there is a cost to these things they didn't add johad campbell who is who i wanted for them uh and i'm looking at this defense and bucks offense is a wagon the defense is certainly better than the two defenses we have just get the best in the division but you know there's holes there are problems um this is a defense that was very good against the run last year and finished 23rd 6 6 first to run 23rd against the pass and devia away 25th on third down uh pass rush versus coverage let's start there which do you think was the bigger problem the lack of package rather or coverage for this past defense oh coverage for sure i mean And don't get me wrong, four-man rush has been an issue since Shaq Barrett started to decline in Tampa Bay.

57:22So it's not that they are not without concern there, but I think they're more like league average there when it comes to the coverage because of all the injuries. And that's the biggest question mark to me with the Bucs' health. I mean, you're already seeing injuries start to come up, but health for this team matters so much. Winfield, even when he played last year, was never healthy. He basically, for all intents and purposes, he was not Antoine Winfield the entire season, was maybe the best safety in the league year before that. So massive drop off there, right? You're playing unplayable guys kind of at times because of the issues there.

57:55Jamel Dean exited several games last season. Zion McCollum missed time. They had injuries basically to every player in the secondary. And then in the playoffs, Jordan Whitehead gets in the car accident. So they just really were never whole. They didn't play one snap. They didn't play at all last season as a starting secondary. so now you've got winfield back supposedly fully healthy you have tyke smith moving to strong safety and we'll see how much that takes him out of the nickel he was actually very good in the nickel last year and you've got a competition with dean at that cornerback spot dean's been good when he's been healthy just doesn't create any splash plays for you what point do you need that will ben morrison provide more of that we'll see who kind of wins that job zion mccollum's going to start at the other corner spot jacob parrish has been running with the ones at nickels they took him in the third round so two rookies yeah it's it's interesting i didn't think parrish's tape was very good in college especially as a guy who played played inside some i liked him played there but i thought he got beat there a lot but he's been you know we'll see how it looks in in the real action they've been excited about him in the preseason action so there's a lot more here there's more upside here than there was last year last year bryce hall or bryce hall got hurt in drain camp and then it was like from that point it just went straight when the starting quarters I mean, Josh Hayes, Tyreek Funderburg, Kayvon Merriweather.

59:12These guys were playing like major roles for this team. Linebacker, they were down bad in the same way. So you got to stay healthy as a group. At some point, everybody runs out of depth, and I think that's going to be key for this team in the secondary. And Winfield has to be one of the best players at his position. When he is, it's a totally different group. He's been one of those guys that creates advantages in splash play, similar to what we talk about with Bates. And I think that he just wasn't that guy at all last year, and it really affected the group as a whole. And he's so fundamental to the style of defense that Todd Bowles plays.

59:43I mean, Todd Bowles still running out that, you know, 30 % plus cover three. I mean, he, it's... Still going to blitz you. Having that rangy safety who can, like, play that Earl Thomas type role, you know, as the prototype is so important. And Winfield being a diminished version of himself really affects everybody. And, you know, I think with the corners, I actually like McCollum. I like, you know, he's a little boomer bust, but. Incredibly improved. Couldn't play me at all. Yeah, right. I like him in that scheme. I like Ben Morrison, hypothetically, in this. I mean, he was, I talked about him a little bit on the draft pod, but just to revisit for Bucs fans, some of the best defensive back tape you'll see in college before the injury at Notre Dame.

1:00:36And it's kind of been a mystery because of that. Can he return to that level of play? Because it's there, you know. And a strange fit in some ways, because Notre Dame played like this absurd amount of man coverage and the Bucs haven't typically under bowls. So what does that signify? Yeah, I think the Bucs play like the least amount of man coverage in the entire NFL, honestly. Pass fresh to me, there's some intrigue. Yaya Diaby, I thought, took a real step forward. and then opposite him, Hasan Aredek, I think there's the question, like it was last year, can you just throw it out the window because all of the craziness with the contract stuff and missing the offseason and much of the season?

1:01:17I don't know. I mean, if he's anything like he was before that, then he's certainly an upgrade in this defense. Probably one of the biggest X factors in the entire league, right? I mean, if he's the guy from before the injuries that was really impactful pass rush for four straight years, then that could be a massive difference bucks haven't had somebody like that again since Shaq Barrett was really healthy and in his prime that could just win around the outside of the tackle like they're just easy to kind of sit and condense against as a rush group and you know the twists are coming because it's bulls you know the a gap blitzes are coming and so you just don't have to worry about those spread type of protections where you're getting up the field with your tackles and opening up those lanes and so he's the guy the only guy really in my opinion because I think you're right Diaby improved but he still really is a straight down the middle type of rusher inside move type of rusher and those guys are gonna the pressure numbers are like oh the pressure numbers well there's always a blocker between him and the quarterback I think it's a different type of pressure than when you're about to sack the quarterback and you know come in unblocked or beat a guy you know so I think that they really the only upside with the rush group to me is in Redick and then Cansey in year three who has missed time both years because it held stuff too so again it keeps going back to help i think when these guys have been healthy really talented group linebacker group different story but the rest of the group has been really talented they just haven't been able to stay consistently healthy as a group and play on the field together how great would it be if john campbell was in this mix though in this front seven like it'd be if he had been fully healthy before the draft i'll just say this apparently it's fine i know now he looks fine i watched his preseason pricksie dust on him and he shows up day one of cam no issues i was like man he looks good and it would be a great fit and he i was all about that pick as well and i think if the shoulder hadn't been a concern it very well the bucks weren't the only one you know to to feel that way um yeah can't i talked about can see a little bit he was actually i should have picked reddick but he was my x factor just because i liked him a lot ahead of the draft he was injured I thought he flashed as a pass rusher you saw the athleticism some of the hands he's honestly uh pretty polished as a rusher but the size also showed up to me in the run game so be curious to see if he can build a little play strength this year because he has the potential I think to be really good alongside Vita Veya who's still Vita Veya yeah you got to put him without a player like that but he's kind of the perfect modern player where passing downs you can do all kinds of stuff with him early downs yeah he's gonna slip through a gap once in a while and get you tackles for loss and then he's gonna get knocked around other times you just kind of gotta live with it with this type of player this episode is brought to you by google chrome you think you know a browser but gemini and chrome that's new it can help you with practically anything on the web like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50 page restoration block or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks gemini and chrome is here for Ready to make anything online make sense?

1:04:21There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required. Compatibility and availability varies 18+. The New Orleans Saints are the final team in the NFC South. We were joking about this ahead of taping that when news broke that Arch Manning is probably going to stay. It's been reported. I don't know if it's confirmed. That he's not going to probably declare for the NFL draft after this year. Saints fans were like, cool, we're going to be just as bad in 2026, baby. So important note here, this is a quarterback competition. We are recording this before preseason because I'm traveling on Wednesday.

1:05:07I am, if you're listening to this, you probably already know, but I'm going to cover the Saints quarterbacks on my Tuesday pod. so you know saints fans this is not like you're gonna hear about the great tyler shuck jay hayner spencer rattler quarterback throwdown of 2025 i promise so i want to talk to you more about the offense kind of like just generally rather than the quarterbacks um but first let's start with the defense uh which is now coached by brandon staley i don't even know what to say it feels like it's an insane pivot by the way insane it's i mean the brandon staley arc doesn't have a couple more years before they make the movie where he comes back from the midlife crisis and then he takes over a team like it feels like this is too early he hasn't been in the midlife he has to go through the crisis first like he already got a job as a d coordinator after everything he's been through like i i can't i couldn't believe that when it happened just from an optics i just wouldn't have expected it i mean he's young and bright and maybe he'll learn from the past mistakes but i did not see expect to see him get a dc job again so soon i brought him up because i actually think it's interesting i i was looking at the script and trying to think about how they fit and because i assume it's going to be you know a scheme shift under him from what they did under dennis allen um and i'm looking at the group and kind of trying to see if it makes sense to me like the it's such you know last year they were 12th against the past 30th against the run start there um this they're not devoid of talent defensively so i you know i think that's important to know because i think i've been doing these power rankings the saints keep finishing at the bottom and i don't think it's the defense isn't good but there's at least promising players on this side of the ball he has pieces at his disposal that's kind of what i want to say and actually they now the safeties are justin reading julian blackman like that's not bad it actually makes sense for him too but the corner group cornerback group is pretty rough we talk about that um defensive tackle pretty rough i think edgewise they brought chase young who's by the way how old do you think chase young is let's talk your head 27 26 26 okay younger than is Is that younger than Tyler Shack?

1:07:33Hold on. I promise this is going to be the last time I make one of those jokes. Tyler Shack's 25. Okay. That actually shocked me when I looked at it. I was like, oh my God. Chase Young, Carl Granderson at edge, it's not one of the best pass rushes in football, but I think it's competent. I think for the team, though, they have to figure out kind of like, who are we building around moving forward as we do this rebuild? Do we have the pieces in place? And I'm not quite sure any of the players I've just mentioned fit the bill there. Yeah, I think that for their safety room to be this good on a team that, you know, you wouldn't think of safety as like, oh, this super important position.

1:08:13You got to start there when you build. Like, it's almost like I was like, Justin Reed, why did you go here? I've like been like a fan of Justin Reed for a long time. I thought that he was like probably one of the more unheralded players in the league. I've been like, why did you go? You know, and then Jonas Sanker in the draft was like, oh, they're taking another safety. like Jordan Howden was playing last year. Now he's their fourth safety. And Julian Blackman, I was like, oh, somebody should pick him up. Like if he's healthy, he's been a really good player. The Saints got him. Like, I'm like, man, they just, they can never do this without a million safeties.

1:08:41Like that's always been their way, it feels like. But then you look at the cornerback position and, you know, Elante Taylor gets a lot of excitement. And I think moving forward, he's a really good player. Then when you ask him to play in man coverage, when you start to test him sort of might a little bit of Mike Hilton-esque here, like where you see the limitations show up in other areas of the field particularly downfield um and at the line of scrimmage sometimes in man coverage so i i think he's probably has got more holes than people care to met mckinster is really interesting to me i liked him in college i think that he can be a good starter the other corner spot uh a revolving door i think like i'm not sure who's going to win that if you don't want to win that job or what that's going to look like at that spot but i think that overall when you look at their front it's like a fine group, but I really do wonder, does God show still have it?

1:09:27Because their ability to stop the run to me is a huge question mark, huge question mark for Atlanta, huge question mark for Carolina. We talked about, I think it's going to be better for Carolina for sure. I'm not sure the other two that's going to be the case. They're just small upfront. They just do not have a lot of guys that are gap. Integrity is not what you think of when you think of Shepard and Brisee and Kalen Saunders. And so what is that going to look like with this group, given how they're built, they're sort of built for long and late downs, but I'm not sure they get to long and late downs with some of the issues that they have.

1:09:55So I still think that there is more talent here than what their record is probably going to show at the end of the year. But you go back to the other side of the ball, and it's just, I think some of the issues with the young offensive line still coming together, combined with one of the quarterback situations that I feel the least good about in the entire league and a receiver room that probably isn't super deep. And we'll see what a lot of a is health is like yeah that all is a big question mark to me um yeah get to the offense in a second uh i i think i could see a world in which these safeties are good enough and staley asks the corners to play less man and protects them a bit more where you don't see like they're certainly not dominant but they are able to limit explosives enough to be at least kind of competent defensively i know we're like talking about how bad the run defense is and that's kind of was brandon staley's the thorn in his side with la but um you know i think the the edges should be fine it really to me comes down to like can the defensive tackle room play better against the run and can these i mean justin reed i think will be helpful in that regard too he's really really a good run defender yes i like mckinstreet i he was my x factor actually when i did the saints just because i was like who do you even like who's promising here i thought he did he had his ups and downs but i think i liked him in college and i think he showed the ability to find the football um not get beaten too much for big plays you know it's tough when you're a rookie corner in a bad group it's not like he gets to he got to play next to you know yeah world beaters um quincy riley's another name i would put um a star next to the fourth round draft pick out of louisville i wouldn't be surprised if he pushes um but yeah it's it's all told certainly a unit in transition um same with the offense you alluded to this uh and it kind of similar outside of the quarterback position kind of similar vibes where they're like enough good players that they're not a train wreck you know i think like if olave is healthy olave shaheed cook slash wilson that's not a bad group combination of alvin camara with devin neal who they drafted we talk about him Juwan Zosin is not a bad tight end.

1:12:34Eric McCoy is one of the better centers in football. So there's decent enough players. I think you just, again, when you think about this team and who you're building for for next year, I'm not sure. I feel the same way about the offense that I do about the defense, which is I'm not sure. You have players who will be on the roster, but I don't think you have your foundational pieces on offense. Minus Lave if he's healthy. other than obviously the the quarterbacks if if you have i'm of the opinion that neither of these quarterbacks shook or rattler are going to be the guy long term so other than that sub that plot you the the biggest thing about the same season to me is the offensive line you've spent four first round picks on four of your five starters in the fifth guy you spent a high second round pick on is actually your best player on the offensive line and even though he's often hurt and and mccoy who you mentioned this season is so all about kelvin banks and foaga and if penning can be a guard to me that is like just the whole season for the saints in a nutshell like foiega now you're asking to switch sides i don't know if people watch foiega because the saints were out of the picture down the stretch last year he really had some issues and i think they're all fixable though like i came away watching him against caleb on chasen and i'm like well jason did kind of break out last year he's a nice little story going into this year but it he got cooked like Fouaga got cooked by Jason in that matchup against the Raiders like the penultimate week of the season I think it was and I came away like man I don't know if enough people talked about the fact that in past restriction this guy really struggled despite being probably one of the best players out of his stance in the league at his position so how he develops I think his issues are fixable and and that may be story for another time but I do think that's a big question and then obviously the how uh how uh Banks plays is well a lot of people saw him as an interior guy I did So that'll be a big question too.

1:14:24If this offensive line stays healthy and they were dead, just destroyed by injuries last year, which is, you know, like, like I said, I'm not going to rank against the quarterbacks too much. Cause I'm going to talk about the running of the week. Spencer Rattler. I mean, he, like he played week six through eight and 15 through 18. Olave played in like one of those games, the offensive. I mean, I, again, I know I'm not, he didn't look good, but like nobody would have looked good in that situation. I kind of like that he got another shot this summer, to be honest, even with Tyler Shook in the mix.

1:14:56But to me, if the offensive line is, okay, like Banks Jr., Kelvin Banks Jr. is a first-round draft pick, Trevor Penning moving inside, McCoy, Ruiz, and Fuanga, I could see a world in which that's a good run-blocking unit. I really could. And then you got, okay, Alvin Kamara, Kendra Miller, who's no longer in Dennis Allen's torture chamber, uh but Devin Neal who I thought was an interesting pick Cam Akers is in the mix you know this team actually finished 14th in rushing DVOA last year and there's a world in which they're not that bad running the football uh with Kellen Morris is the play caller and I think regardless of what happens with the quarterback position um that to me you'd be like if you're if you're really thinking about, okay, you know, certainly there's a world in which Tyler shook shocks the world and you feel like he might be a plan going forward.

1:15:51Okay. But if the goal of this year is to like, again, establish your building blocks in the rebuild and set the table for another quarterback in the future, to me, that's something to build on. If you can, if you can have like a top 10 rushing attack with that line and those backs, you start to feel good about directionally where the franchise is headed. Yeah. A hundred percent. I mean, I think that is, that's why I say like, It's all about how this group plays. And you said, I think run game wise, I'm really intrigued because I think Fouaga and Penning both especially are way better run blockers than they are passers and probably McCoy as well.

1:16:27And then we'll see Banks like what he's capable of at left tackle. I saw him as more of a player that I thought would be better inside. Eventually, perhaps that's where he goes the way of Penning. But eventually, man, you spent all these picks on tackles. Penning was a tackle of the virtual Banks. Fouaga, you really cannot miss on those picks. especially with what they're trying to build right now. They're trying to get quarterback and they're trying to get tackle, and they've just kind of keep taking bites of the apple because they're not figuring it out yet. And so they're going to have to keep doing that.

1:16:55And then the other positions in the team that we've kind of talked about are kind of relying on Cam Jordan and Demario Davis and kind of some vets now or guys who, as we mentioned with Young and Granderson, it's like they're long and late downs guys. They're nice to have, but these aren't the guys you want playing 60 snaps a game at Edgerusher necessarily. So I think they're a team that is just constantly in some sort of flux. This is the closest we've got to rebuild. And in some ways they're still hanging on. It was like past the point where they actually could have moved off of anything that, that, the value, like really.

1:17:26So signing Justin Reed was like, I couldn't believe it. I was just like, again, we both like him. He's a really good play, but I was like, what, what are we doing here? They arguably the Tyler shook pick second rounder and a quarterback. Yeah. in some ways you're like, it makes sense. And I liked Shook as a prospect, I think more than. Yeah. But you know, I didn't think it was a first rounder or anything like that, but I liked them on a prospect where a team where the timeline made sense. And I didn't quite understand the thinking here for a team that knows they're not going to be competitive and has desperately needed draft picks and desperately needed an infusion of young talent.

1:18:09It was somewhat perplexing to me. And I know Saints fans as well were pretty upset about it. I think the other piece we got to talk about here when we talk about, again, setting the table for the future, rebuilding, identifying your foundational pieces is the head coach, Kellen Moore. Because, you know, I think I think Kellen Moore benefited from the fact that everybody thought Mike McCarthy was going to take the Saints only choice. and um when when Moore ended up taking the job uh again I don't have my finger entirely on the pulse of Saints Nation but I was pleasantly surprised on behalf of Saints fans because I thought you know this to me was a pretty thankless you're going through a rebuild in some ways there are advantages that come with that for sure but I think with Moore at least you know um there's a level of excitement around the offense what I think so interesting John is I don't know what the hell that offense is going to look like he's called a bunch of different styles of offenses in the nfl and obviously it's going to really come down to who plays quarterback no doubt but um to me like this that's going to be one of the more interesting plot lines with the saints all season is one can more do the job how is he as a manager and all of that and two what does his offense look like now that he has the keys yeah i mean the number one reason why the nfc south's in the state that it is is we the the unknowns of quarterback the unknowns of coaching right you can you can trace it all there and i think some of these the panthers feel like they've kind of found their way the falcons are hopeful we'll see i you know i think the second year with that staff's going to be probably a big one and i think that the saints i i truly just don't even know i i am at a loss it doesn't seem like kellen moore was the top choice for head coach anywhere really and except for maybe new orleans after everybody else had already kind of gone their way uh at that point and then doug nussmeyer coming in here too we talked about that like that is really interesting How does he fit and mold with Kellen Moore?

1:20:04Like what's that relationship going to look like? Who's going to be calling the shots there? Is there tension there? Those guys have both held some real power before. Seeing a sabotage Spencer Rattler so that they can bust for Nuss. Honestly, it's crossed my mind. I think it's just, I mean, they have all these sort of subplots to them, which is why I think too many, which is why I'm like, yeah, it's not like this is as bad of a roster as a five-win team. normally has but i wonder if they end up there because the question the quarterback and coaching are so significant to me and the relational kind of dynamics there are not like established or veteran like the raider situation where it's like okay these guys are pros like they know what they're doing i'm just not quite sure we're gonna get that dynamic out of this room just yet all right moment of truth where do these teams end up finishing i was leaning one way before we did this, but you've kind of swayed me a little bit on the number two team.

1:21:09You go first, and then I'll let you know if I agree. I think I know where you're going to go. Yes. I'm going to go Bucs to win this one, and I think the only way it wouldn't happen was injuries and Grizzard being a disaster, Baker going back to the worst of... Yeah, that would surprise me. I actually am going to go Carolina second, and this one's really hard. I kind of made it sound like it was like dumber than it was earlier to pick Atlanta first, but I actually think it's very difficult and it probably depends on a lot of Pennix young, how you feel about that. I'm going to go Carolina by nose over Atlanta and then New Orleans to finish last.

1:21:45Okay. So I came into this thinking the, the flipping Atlanta and Carolina. Do you, what do you think about Pennix compared to young? That's, I know I, I wish they could combine into one man. Young Penix.

1:22:06That's such a great question. Who would you take in that vacuum? Because I actually do like attributes of them both. I think they both also have the mental makeup to do it, too. I find them both to be incredibly impressive humans. I think they both have good play callers. They both have some talent around them. I look at it as I like Bryce Young more pre-draft, and then he's had actually a larger sample size of being bad, but also being good than Penix. That's right. The three games that I didn't. So that's sort of why I look at it, but I could very easily be wrong. I think that I'm going to stick with Atlanta because the Panthers' secondary and defensive talent is just too, you know.

1:22:56I think the Falcons paid a short-term premium to upgrade their pass rush. That will probably be the difference. Will it work out long-term? That is an open question. Will it be worth it? That is very debatable. But I think Raheem Morris and Terry Fontenot, really, not Raheem really, but Terry Fontenot was like, this is it. I got to do this. So I think I'm going to lean them, but it is close, man. It is close. And then, yeah, so the Bucs on top, the same from the bottom. That goes without saying, I suppose. All right. This has been a lot of fun. We have one more division, the AFC South, who I've put off to the end because of the world's most upsetting quarterback battle.

1:23:42Actually, the world's most upsetting is probably the Browns, who by the time you listen to this, that will have begun. So I will be discussing that early in the week, but you already know that because you've probably listened to it. Thank you again for joining me, John folks, please go check out everything he does. He mentioned at the beginning, but the read optional podcast with Ali is just fantastic. And his, both of their sub stacks you should check out. Thank you also to everybody at Omaha productions, Kirsten Sebecki, Anthony Jimenez, Owen Saylor, Jack Foster, Tucker Tastien. I will be back next week to do week two preseason.

1:24:17and the AFC South. I will also be back with another edition of Viewer Discretion, which is my TV podcast with David Dennis Jr. This week, if you're listening to this, we are doing the season of Perfect Match. The following week, we're going to talk about the new Alien show, Alien Earth, which I'm really excited about because I love that kind of stuff. I saw a trailer. I'm pretty excited about that one. Did you watch Fargo with Noah Hawley? I watched a little bit of it. I have not finished it. You should go watch the first three seeds of Fargo are amazing. That is giving me a lot of hope. And I love sci-fi too.

1:24:49So I'll watch anything sci-fi. And that's been it all for this week. I will see you guys next week.