Murray Up and Wait: The QB Carousel and Top Free Agents

15:07Field Yates:I would throw Arizona, by the way, back in that mix as well. Not to make this an entirely Cardinals-based podcast, but Mike LaFleur did not coach Malik Willis. But of course, his brother did, Matt LaFleur. So I'm sure there's great levels of like, if there are any questions about Malik Willis, there's no better resource than his brother and best friend, Matt. I like Pittsburgh more than I like Miami because I like the idea of giving yourself a credible chance to make some improvement here. Pittsburgh has fallen into the pool of average offensively for like half a decade now. I'm going to rule out the Jets for this reason, Mina.

15:41Field Yates:A lot of the comps contract-wise for Malik Willis, many people have thought this could be like a Justin Fields type contract from last year. For those that don't recall, two years, $40 million for Justin Fields, 30 of which was guaranteed. I don't think the Jets would want to go down this path. Ownership might say, hey, if this is risky at all, would we really want to fall into this trap in back-to-back years? I think the Jets also, because they have five first-round picks between this year and next Mina, can say to themselves, if we want to be patient, we'll be patient and we'll make the quarterback move when we're ready as opposed to trying to rush things just to fill admittedly the most important part of the roster but we're not going to settle for anything other than a guy that we think can franchise change or change our franchise for a long time so I get back to Pittsburgh there Miami there's familiarity of course but Pittsburgh I just difference maker at quarterback right it's been a while they've been stuck with quarterbacks that have not been difference makers Aaron Rodgers was obviously solid last year but like push comes to shove, you're playing the Houston Texans.

16:45Field Yates:You have no chance whatsoever in the playoffs. Malik Willis is somewhat of an unknown. He's got a much smaller sample size of starts than many of the quarterbacks that we've mentioned as free agent targets this offseason, but he's also younger and his tape over the past couple of years is probably as good as anybody's, right? I mean, the accuracy has been ridiculous. He is a legitimate tool threat quarterback, and it seems like those two years in Green Bay may have been about like as impactful of quarterback tutoring as any quarterback has received in the league. I mean, think about where he was value wise when the Titans traded them.

17:21Field Yates:He got a seventh round pick in return, a third round pick traded for a seventh round pick. And he played legit good football when he had to step in for Jordan Love over these past two seasons.

17:31Mina Kimes:I really like Pittsburgh for him. I think that's the best destination um first of all they have i think just it makes sense for both sides from pittsburgh's point of view this is not you talk about the jets that's a rebuilding team the dolphins they're not good they're not a malik willis away from you know what i mean like there's so many other needs on that roster um and also i think they are teams that are going to have to go that you want them to have a young quarterback like next year you know this is just the timeline doesn't make sense for me pittsburgh is a team that should be competing now obviously they were the postseason um and they have cap space they're uh ninth overall right now and i like the stylistic fit um with the players when i so you know i've always been a fan of willis um so much so that when he was drafted i really wanted seattle to take him in the second round i remember that uh and watching him over the last few years i just i'm so impressed by his development i think that's something with quarterbacks that i have increasingly come to value like is this guy getting better uh he reminds me a little bit of hertz in so far a lot actually yeah in so far as like when i envision what an offense for him should look like it is one with a dominant run game where he is a part of that run game and he's more of a dual threat than court hurts um and because of that dominant run game he's able to get one-on-ones outside and he throws a gorgeous scobo and DK Metcalf is right there I think the Steelers run game was actually decent last season I think it would be even better with Willis you have an ascending you know a lot of good young players on the offensive line they obviously need another receiver and whatnot but Metcalf to me is just like such a good fit with his style so I I would love that I think I think a Pittsburgh team with Malik Willis like that is instantly intriguing to me um you know and you know like I get why Miami would be interested.

19:24Mina Kimes:I get why some of the other teams would be interested. But if I'm Willis as well, the Steelers, to me, make more sense than those teams.

19:32Field Yates:For sure. I mean, if you want to go have a chance to win, right? Now, Miami might make sense to him just because John Eric Sullivan, their GM, was part of the staff that traded for him. Jeff Halfley, the defensive coordinator for the Packers these past couple of seasons. So there's that knowledge of the player. And by the way, I don't know this for a fact, but if you're Malik Willis, There might be some of you that has an affinity for any and all things Green Bay, given that when your career was basically at its nadir, they said, we want you. Right. Even if it was just for a seventh round pick, like we want you.

20:05Field Yates:So maybe John Eric Sullivan has developed or did develop a relationship as a result of that. So perhaps Miami is appealing there, Mina. But if you want a chance to go and compete right away, even if I think that the Steelers with Malik Willis are still, you know, maybe the second or third best team in their own division. We'll see how things shake out with Cincinnati specifically this offseason. I do think Baltimore will be back on track next year. But still, like I give them more playoff equity than I would the Dolphins, who I don't want to say that I don't care what they do at all this offseason.

20:36Field Yates:but there are very few scenarios in which Miami, this offseason, given all the money they had to sort of figure out with the players they've released, that they're going to get back on track this year. This is going to be kind of like take your medicine from Miami for a season and start to build this thing up back from not quite the studs, but close to it. We're pretty low.

20:56Mina Kimes:Just so many needs in the trenches. The defense has so many holes. This is a rebuilding Dolphins team. And, you know, Dolphins fans, at least you're taking your medicine. which is a good thing. They could have dragged it out with those players and two and whatnot. But yeah, the timeline doesn't make sense for me. The Jets, I think we, I think the Jets, if they make Darren Mugi, their GM has like all these draft picks, obviously they have the potential to make this roster to, to get it in really good shape for when the young quarterback comes through the door. I could see them going with one of the transition guys, like a Kirk Cousins.

21:36Mina Kimes:Maybe if two was cut. Yeah, I know that's, you know, but it's not going to be cost that much.

21:43Field Yates:Yeah, in the backdrop for the Jets, and this applies to all of the young teams, but the Jets more than any team in the NFL. And I'm sure there are going to be listeners that hear this or viewers that hear this or see this and say like, yeah, yeah, same thing you guys say every year. The 2027 NFL draft, and I'm going to work to not use hyperbole here, shaping up as one of the best that we have seen in maybe 15 years. And it's not just quarterbacks. It's pass rushers. It's wide receivers. You name it. There are special, special players here. It's been a while since we've had like one of those all-timer drafts.

22:17Field Yates:2024 has a chance to really get there, but it's hard to say that just two years after the draft. I think it was 2014 that year. It was, gosh, I have to go back and check the exact year. But like there was, shoot, what year was Vaughn Miller taken? Whatever year Vaughn Miller was taken, I apologize for this. I think it was Cam and then Vaughn Miller. I think it was Julio Jones and A.J. Green. I mean, just like a who's who of future, in my opinion, Pro Football Hall of Famers. It could be one of those types of drafts, which is important to note just because there are going to be some teams. This is not the NBA where we're tanking completely and obviously.

22:52Field Yates:But we're going to have some teams that are making decisions knowing that a little bit of patience might lead to better outcomes in 2027.

23:00Mina Kimes:Are we putting Cleveland in this bucket as well and keeping it moving as a team that it shouldn't be considering any of the top end quarterbacks this year and should just keep? Because, oh my goodness, this Cleveland roster. I mean, the entire offensive line has to be replaced. Like they are in no position to get a quarterback right now.

23:18Field Yates:Don't have a good grip on the Browns whatsoever. I mean, obviously, the quarterbacks under contract for next year are Shadour Sanders, Dylan Gabriel, and yes, Deshaun Watson, the final year of that five-year contract that he signed when he was traded to Cleveland. Don't have a good grip on it whatsoever, I mean. They need to resurrect the entire offensive line. They need at least one more wide receiver. They're set at running back. Got a great young tight end in Harold Fannin Jr. The defense is ready-made. They hired a 58-year-old head coach. I don't know and maybe it's unfair to say that a 58 year old head coach is not hired to sort of architect to rebuild but oftentimes when teams know they have a long runway ahead of them it's let's go find the sort of the whiz kid offensive mind maybe that the Raiders are a good example here the 30 I think now 39 year old Clint Kubiak hired after the win in the Super Bowl and yeah it might take some time but we have we're going to have the quarterback and we have the offensive coach.

24:17Field Yates:I don't know what to make Cleveland, truthfully. I don't either.

24:19Mina Kimes:Brown's kept their GM. That also, when you think about this year potentially being a rebuilding year, maybe, you know, like you said, this could be a, okay, let's just keep kind of trying to focus on fixing things. He's part of the reason why they're in the situation they're in, but it's neither here to there. Okay, there's two other teams I want to get to. Let's talk about Indianapolis. This is a really tough one because I keep saying seeing the expectation is that they're going to keep Daniel Jones, who was so great for them before he got injured. He saw some cracks emerge in the game, I would say, before then.

24:58Mina Kimes:So I don't want to overstate it. But obviously, he was unbelievable. First six weeks, seven weeks or so of the season. This confuses me, though, because he tore his Achilles late in the season. we now have seen two quarterbacks take a very long time to come back from Achilles and be look anything like themselves granted Kirk Cousins and Aaron Rodgers much older than Daniel Jones but Daniel Jones athleticism is a big part of his game so when I say it's confusing to me and I feel awful because obviously I wish that you know Daniel bet on himself in a way and this sucks How is that a plan, though?

25:39Mina Kimes:Like, I am a little bit confused, Field, by that being the narrative. Can you explain to me what you think their thinking is and whether you agree with it?

25:47Field Yates:So I think the plan is Daniel Jones plus something else. That's the plan for Indianapolis here. And I don't think that's something else, by the way, is Anthony Richardson. I don't think it's Philip Rivers. I don't think it's Riley. Maybe Riley Leonard. I don't think it's Riley Leonard, though, but it could be Riley to get things going. not to sound like not to sort of skirt like responsibility here but so much of this Mina is dependent upon where he's at health wise and like they may know that he's on track or he's ahead of schedule or he's behind schedule but I think Daniel Jones absolutely wants to be in Indianapolis I think Indianapolis envisions a future with Daniel Jones beyond 2026 got to find the right number though to get started right how much do you pay daniel jones this year if you're gonna give me let's just say it's a three-year deal mina what's the number for dang is it three

26:38Mina Kimes:years a hundred million dollars i'm not comfortable doing any i'm just straight up he's coming off one of achilles man like this is not an acl like we we just stole two quarterbacks who can't move

26:50Field Yates:now like i i don't know i i feel crazy yeah i hear you wrong i would love to be wrong i'd love to but

26:56Mina Kimes:It's just like.

26:57Field Yates:So I'll set the number at, I'll go three for 90 is just my guess here right now on Daniel Jones. And for the Colts, the concession is that you don't know what you're going to get this season. The upside for the Colts is that if Daniel Jones plays like he did this past year going forward, then$30 million in quarterback terms is a bargain, right? It's half of what the top paid quarterbacks are making. That's a big bargain for a guy that did play well last season. But I think you have to have a Daniel Jones plus something else plan because what does 2026 look like? I mean, any time ownership has to announce at the end of the season that they're not making a change with the coach and the GM, it means by default, Mina, the coach and the GM are on the hot seat for the next year.

27:49Field Yates:That's just how it works, right? Now, if they come out and they win 13 games next year, they will not be on the hot seat. But they have to either make improvements or have a pretty clear and obvious trajectory that in 2027 with a fully healthy Daniel Jones, the team is ready to compete for the Super Bowl. So if I'm Chris Ballard, the GM, I'm not risking it with Daniel Jones and that's it. The plan has to be Daniel Jones plus somebody else. Is that feasible? Plus him. Is there a perfect option? I don't know. But I just don't get how this team can go into next year with all the pressure, whether it's spoken about, felt, not felt.

28:27Mina Kimes:Everyone's seat is hot there.

28:29Field Yates:The pressure is there. Like, let's just, you and I, I mean, at this time last offseason, we could have told you from a mile away, the Giants, as an organization, were on a lot of, under a lot of pressure, right? And the coach gets fired halfway through the season. they keep their GM Joe Shane, but another one where at the end they had to announce they were not going to make any changes at general manager. So this is a team that obviously has to do something this upcoming year. Running it back with just Daniel Jones is risky, but this is not the year to need not just one quarterback, but potentially two.

29:03Field Yates:Right.

29:03Mina Kimes:There's a lot of teams where it's like, okay, they need a contingency plan. Minnesota, Indianapolis, and Atlanta, which is kind of the final team we haven't talked about. another team where it's like, okay, Penix got hurt. He was up and down before then even. We're going to give him a chance, but you obviously need some form of competition. You talked about Cleveland being hard to figure out. Atlanta, for me, I'm just like, who's the competition? Because the difference between them and Cleveland, the Jets, is this is actually, like Atlanta was a couple of misfield goes away from winning the damn division.

29:39Mina Kimes:It's ridiculous. Defense headed on the right track. I love the Kevin Stepanski coaching hire. You have good players on this roster. So that complicates things because you're not just like, hey, let's just throw some stuff at the wall and see it sticks, but we're rebuilding anyways and we're waiting for next year. They should be competitive.

29:58Field Yates:Yeah, they should be.

29:59Mina Kimes:I legitimately, like, let me throw something out. Should I have mentioned Malik Willis as a possibility for them?

30:09Yeah, I mean, probably.

30:15Field Yates:the only thing I'd say about the only thing about Malik Willis that I would say with Atlanta is that if Atlanta signs Malik Willis it's over with Michael Penning shooting yeah right like it's an acknowledgement that he's just not for us right whereas if they were to go down a path of one of these veteran quarterbacks that has less upside but also is more cost controlled and is older it's like hey we don't know when Michael's going to be ready this upcoming season but we have our plan in place until that time comes. The Browns, I'm sorry, muscle memory there. The Falcons have been noncommittal on Michael Penix Jr.

30:49Field Yates:so far this offseason when Matt Ryan and Kevin Stefanski and their new GM Ian Cunningham have spoken about him. Again, to get dorky about the cap here for a second, the Falcons restructured Kirk Cousins' contract just at the end of the regular season in a way that essentially sets them up to cut him on Monday or Tuesday of the legal negotiating window. The only thing that I would mention is that that restructure does not prevent them from subsequently restructuring again. So I think if Kirk Cousins has a chance to, if it's possible he returned. He makes the most sense there

31:25Mina Kimes:with Kevin's advance. He might make the most sense, right? When you say veteran quarterback, I'm like, it keeps coming back to Kirk for me.

31:31Field Yates:Yeah, and he has a good work. And by the way, he has a working rapport with Michael Tannix Jr. I'm not saying that Michael Penix Jr. would be offended or something like that if the team drafted or signed some other veteran quarterback. You and I both know this is one of the more mentally tough young guys who's been through a ton already. I'm not worried about Michael Penix Jr. and his toughness, but the quarterback room is so important, Mina. People just, it matters so much to these coaches. And you know it works right now in Atlanta. It seems like Michael and Kirk have come to develop a good rapport and relationship that if you can find a deal that's amenable to Kirk and he wants to be there because he does have some, you know, both sides have a little bit of leverage here.

32:12Field Yates:Kirk has more leverage right now because if he's on the team on the third day of free agency, he's guaranteed$67 million in 2027. Yeah, that ain't happening. So if Kirk wants to become a free agent, he's got that right. But if he wants to stay in Atlanta, cut the cost down to, I'm just making this up, a one-year deal worth up to$15 million, maybe$10 million base value, that to me will be a logical conclusion here.

32:38Mina Kimes:I think so too. I kept doing different – like I was doing musical chairs then and I was looking at Lana and I just kept coming back to Kirk. And I was like, I guess Aaron you could look at. Mac Jones would have been a possibility if he was on the table, but I don't think he is, especially not for what they would give up. Yeah. But yeah, it makes sense. And the other aspect of this, again, it keeps going back to the draft. If there were like a ton of quarterbacks, if this was like the 2024 quarterback draft, a lot of these teams, we would be having different conversations about what they'd be willing to do.

33:13Mina Kimes:But it's not like I've watched three thus far, so I've got a long way to go, but like, it's just not.

33:20Field Yates:So I'm just telling you that.

33:22Mina Kimes:That brings me to my final talking point on the quarterbacks or discussion before we take a break, which is, Okay. Mendoza's won. Okay, fine. Which of all of the teams we discussed do we think is the most likely to either maybe trade up into the first or take a quarterback in the second? I think it's Arizona.

33:45Field Yates:Okay, yeah.

33:46Mina Kimes:Is there any other team you think that I'm missing that not, again, of the teams we've discussed where you'd be like, they could take a quarterback either late in the first or in the second round.

33:58Field Yates:Miami would be the other one. And go back to what we referenced earlier, GM, John Eric Sullivan. I think it was 17 years in Green Bay for John Eric. And I'm almost positive that he's a Green Bay lifer. That's what the Packers do. They breed future GMs. And what do all the members of the Ron Wolfe scouting tree love, Mina? It's quarterbacks, right? They draft them a year or years before they need them. There's no such thing as too many of them. So Miami, which would be around pick 40 in the second round, like some of the names, and this is not comprehensive. I'm not saying these guys are going to go there, but like could Drew Aller go in the 40s, Mina?

34:40Field Yates:There are people that would tell you he should go in the fourth round. I'm just, you know, if a team is going to take a quarterback at the top of the second round and we presume Ty Simpson, or at least I presume he's going to be gone at some point in the first, The names to consider would be the likes of Drew Aller, Garrett Nussmeyer.

35:00Mina Kimes:I'm watching Nussmeyer right now. Yeah, I mean, it's slim pickings now, Mina. It's not the year.

35:08Field Yates:I would be wary if I'm Miami.

35:09Mina Kimes:I know they got to do something, but I really need to fix that roster. But if the value is there later, then it changes the equation.

35:18Field Yates:All right. Miami and Arizona, good picks.

35:20Mina Kimes:Yeah. Let's take a quick break. come back and talk about the biggest free agents and some of these position groups. If you're looking to bring a little celebration into every day, Confetti Craze five-hour energy tastes just like birthday cake. Think rich vanilla, buttery funfetti flavor, basically a party in a bottle. And here's what makes it even better. It's all cake, no sugar. So you get that big birthday energy without any sugar guilt. The bottle is small, portable, and easy to keep on hand when you need a quick, tasty caffeine boost to cake-ify your day. Confetti Craze is unapologetically extra and sometimes extra is exactly the vibe.

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37:45Mina Kimes:All right, we are back. Let's start with receivers.

37:51Mina Kimes:There's a bunch of names. First of all, there's a possibility A.J. Brown could be on the block. That's something to consider. The bell of the ball is, of course, George Pickens, who could get tagged by the Cowboys. Then you're looking at Alec Pierce, Romeo Dobbs, Mike Evans, Wandel Robinson, Rashid Shahid, Debo, Jennings, Keenan Allen, Christian Kirk. There's a lot of pretty solid number twos and threes. Pickens and Pierce to me are the kind of most intriguing names. Let's talk about Pickens because that's the one I am having the most trouble deciding what I think should happen. Okay. So on one hand, so Dallas might tag him.

38:37Mina Kimes:I think they probably will. They will. Maybe by the time you listen to this.

38:39Field Yates:But the window closes, he will either be tagged or extended.

38:44Mina Kimes:So the question to me is not whether they should tag him because I would tag him because you could tag and trade, by the way. It's should they give him a deal? I am so torn on this and I want to talk. I want to get your thoughts on it, because on one hand, I'm like, first of all, last year he was an all I voted for all pro. That offense was gas with him and lamb. You're in the prime of Dak's career. He was great last year and opened so much things up with the run game. It's amazing. On the other hand, the Dallas defense has so many holes and the Bengals spooked me. I'm just going to say it. I was team T and spooked.

39:27Mina Kimes:So what would you do if you were the Dallas Cowboys?

39:30Field Yates:I would, I would tag and do things normally and extend them and not make this like a marathon boxing match where it has to go in the last minute and there's public sniping and there's way too much discourse on it no i want to extend george pickens and i'll deal with that if that becomes a problem if we're too oversaturated offensively i'll deal with that on a different day mina and i'm not saying you should make moves just for the court of public opinion, but amidst a very, very bad off season last year in the court of public opinion, because they traded away Micah Parsons, the Cowboys also executed maybe the best value trade in the league, right?

40:14Field Yates:I mean, like getting George Pickens for what they did was a masterstroke. This team needs a win. They need a win right now, right? And I'm sure there are Cowboys fans, analysts that see or listen to this and say, that's not a good reason to extend a player. And I hear that argument. I do. he's also a damn good player you can trade George Pickens on an extension you can and in the meantime it's doable and in the meantime if you trade him and you extend him I'm sorry if you tag him and you extend him every other resource you have this offseason is going to the defense you've got picks 12, you've got pick 20 you've got enough resources you have enough resources this offseason 12 and 20 to do enough on the defense.

41:03Field Yates:And I just, I'm sick of the, I don't know. I mean, it's great for our content, right? Like you and I have been on those NFL lives on June 28th where it's like, here we go, day, whatever, 100 on the Cowboys and Micah Parsons saga. What's new? Nothing, but let's talk about it, right? That's something we rely upon. But at the same time, you know, like they just have to do one of these normally. Like Dak Prescott, CeeDee Lamb. No, I didn't. Or Zach Martin. Like, why can't any of these be normal? People would do backflips to have the problem of trying to extend a player of the caliber of George Bacons or Zach Martin.

41:39Field Yates:Like, think about some of the teams that have lean, lean draft classes recently. The Cowboys, for whatever reason, every year, this is how it goes. But I would extend them. The number is tricky, Mina.

41:49Mina Kimes:We don't have to get into that.

41:50Field Yates:But just to throw it out there, Mina, I think it's somewhere in the range of four years and 32 to$34 million a year.

42:00Mina Kimes:Really? You don't think he'd want more?

42:02Field Yates:Well, I mean, the tricky part is what's his teammate? CeeDee Lamb make. Yeah. He was four for 140, which is 35 a year, right? CeeDee was like right. Maybe he was four for 136, which I think he might have been four for 136, which is right behind Justin Jefferson. Like despite the great year from George Pickens last year, CeeDee Lamb is the number one wide receiver in this offense, right? So you've got to be kind of mindful of it. And I'm sure George would be asking for$40 million a year. Why wouldn't he, right? I mean, the market's changed and he's a great player. I think you make a really great case,

42:36Mina Kimes:especially just because he's like such a sure thing and he's so good. And I also think, you know, the two first round draft picks is really important with the defense. This is a team that's been pretty good at drafting, although they haven't really had hit on defensive stuff. I mean, Micah wasn't that long ago.

42:51Field Yates:It's been a minute, though. It hasn't been as good recently.

42:54Mina Kimes:I think, I mean, Overshown. Aziraku looked good last year, but you still need that. There's just so many holes, linebacker, corner, nickel. There's a lot. I do think people call you. You listen. But he is very good. The other player I mentioned, I don't want to. So people might say, really, you're putting Alec Pierce in that top-tier category? So I want to just hit on him really quick. Alec Pierce. So this will be mentioned a lot, obviously, in his free agency. Averaged 21 yards a catch last year. The difference between him and the number two player, who was Christian Watson, was the same as the difference between Christian Watson and the number 26 player.

43:41Wow.

43:43Mina Kimes:You just cannot in the NFL overestimate how much teams value explosive players. And the thing I'll add about him, Field, that I think was so impressive last year in particular, but you've seen this, he's not just like a speed burner, separator, and gets wide open kind of guy. He wins with size too. He's a big dude, but I think he's a more complete – some of these catches are contested catches. He's got a good concentration downfield. So I think he is a much more complete player maybe than people give him credit for. And if I'm looking at teams like New England, Tennessee, there's so many teams where if you've got a big-armed quarterback, I feel like he's so appealing as a free agent.

44:34Yeah.

44:34Field Yates:Yeah, I mean, people might be like poo-pooing the concept of Alec Pierce being the second wide receiver we dive into. Just wait until the contract is, whoever reports it, probably Shefty, just wait. It is going to be a monster. That's what free agency does, but it's going to be a huge deal. Like maybe it's, I don't know, if you told me it was 25 million bucks a year, I wouldn't be totally stunned. Maybe it's closer to 20, Mina, but it's going to be huge. So I think he, and I'll tell you, I think sneaky Romeo Dobbs is going to be not that far behind. I like him too. Romeo Dobbs is, he's not the biggest guy.

45:08Field Yates:He's not the fastest guy. He's kind of had an up and down tenure at times with Green Bay. He was suspended by the team as recently as the last year for, I think it was conduct detrimental. Right, Mina? Like this is a player who hasn't always been like the smoothest path, but dude's pretty damn good. Get open, catch the football are the first two things that you worry about for wide receivers. He can do both of those things. Good after the catch as well. Very good route runners, Romeo Dobbs. Guys had a ton of touchdown production. I think Dobbs is going to cash in at a bigger number than people realize as well.

45:40Mina Kimes:Yeah, I think like you look at teams that just need like a reliable first down machine, a guy who's good against zone, a guy who gets towards touchdowns, who doesn't drop the football, like Baltimore, for example. Sure. I think he makes a ton of sense. Jennings is kind of like the budget version. I mean, to me, he's another guy who I think could make a little bit more than people think because of that appeal. All right, let's keep it moving. Running backs. This is a stacked running back group. I actually, when I started going through them, because it started when I was thinking about Kenneth Walker and whether the Seahawks, who decided not to tag him, by the way, would spring for him.

46:22Mina Kimes:But then I started looking at the names, and I thought, ooh, this could bring down contracts and also make it more likely that teams are willing to move on because there's so many good options here. Just to name some of them, Kenneth Walker.

46:35Field Yates:Yep.

46:36Mina Kimes:Third, Brees Hall, Travis Etienne, Rico Dowdle, Javante Williams, Tyler Algier, J.K. Dobbins. I mean, like...

46:45Field Yates:And you've got specialists too, right? You've got guys like Rashad White and Kenneth Gainwell that are awesome in the passing game. Like, you've got just...

46:51Mina Kimes:Gainwell forever.

46:52Field Yates:Yeah, Gainwell's so good. But you don't have a good draft class. Bad, bad, bad, bad, bad draft class. That's what I'm hearing.

46:58Mina Kimes:So that I think will also influence this. So let me start. I'll give you my answer. Of all the names I mentioned, so there's a lot of teams that obviously need them. Denver, Kansas City, Houston, Dallas, Arizona, potentially Seattle. Is there a back you like? And you can address this not as like the guy who you think is going to make the most, Just from like value production, is there someone where if you were a team, you would be eyeing them or maybe a match even that you like?

47:27Field Yates:Yeah, I mean, the value play is definitely Kenny G, Kenneth Gainwell. The guy got one year,$4 million last year.

47:33Mina Kimes:He's always good. He's always good.

47:34Field Yates:He's always good. And he showed last year that there's more rushing upside that I think people probably gave him credit for. Clearly, the NFL did not give him much, did not see much value as a runner because he got just a one-year contract. He's amazing in the passing game as well. Any team that needs a pass-catching running back, lock it in. Kenny G is worth your time. He's so good, so reliable, so dependable. He became Aaron Rodgers' favorite receiver by the end of last season. I think Brees Hall makes the most money out of those guys, Mina. He's the most obvious. Pay him. Maybe not top of the market, which is now$20 million for Christian McCaffrey, but maybe somewhere in that$14 million to$15 million per year range.

48:14Field Yates:The Jets have all this cap space, Mina. They have to pay somebody. they decided not to trade Brees Hall at the deadline last year when everybody else got shipped off I'm not like the biggest fan of pumping 15 million dollars a year into running back when you're as bad as the Jets are but I also like like consistency within a plan if you're not going to trade him what's the point of not resigning him too you know what I mean um I would have rather taken the third or fourth round pick you could have gotten for him at the deadline last year rather than hold on to him for the last seven games and then see him walk.

48:47Field Yates:And then, you know, Kenneth Walker is the most intriguing out of this group because he's coming off of Super Bowl MVP performance. And in the right scheme, like if you put him on a winning team, I could see not a perfect comparison here, but this could be to me like Josh Jacobs has been for the Packers. Like awesome player. we don't assume that a winning team who's got all these other cap concerns because good teams have lots of good players they don't necessarily they don't often have a ton of good cap space, excuse me, that you're just like no, we feel like he's the missing piece I mean, he was unstoppable over the last six games of the season, unstoppable

49:26Mina Kimes:He's a tricky one for me because he's a little boom or bust right, the success rate

49:32Field Yates:That was the reason why he wasn't playing as much for all those multiple years, right?

49:35Mina Kimes:He has the thing that not many of these backs do which is he's so explosive. He was, you know, 33 explosive runs over the regular season. But then like in the Super Bowl alone, he had most of the Seahawks explosive play. So like to your point, I think he's like a very specific back, not in terms of, not for me as much scheme, but like need, you know, like who's the team where it's like, this is just the final piece. I really like, so when I look at backs, I like, I really, I've said this before. I really like to look at NGS has this rushing yards over expected per carry stat, which is really trying to isolate what the back is responsible for.

50:10Mina Kimes:And I've found it to be pretty predictive of continued efficiency. And Hubbins was really good in the last number, but he's got the injury. But looking at that number, Brees, Javante Williams, and Rico Dowdle all tied with a pretty decent mark. So obviously, Dowdle Hall was in a tough situation. For example, Dowdle and Javante were in much better ones. but ultimately the numbers that netted out the same, which I do think bodes well for Hall. I always, I thought the Cowboys should have just kept Dowdle and then they signed Javante and he was good too. I think a Dallas is yet right. Another team that needs it back, but I think either of those players, Dowdle and Williams would be decent value signings.

50:53Mina Kimes:Cause I can't imagine they'll make a lot next season. But I thought both were pretty, the one that I'm a little wary of is ETN. Yeah.

51:02Field Yates:Does that is, Am I wrong for thinking that that feels like he's just going to head right to – I think Jacksonville is going to keep a lot of this core together for the vibes.

51:13Mina Kimes:Yeah. Only with Lloyd. Yeah.

51:16Field Yates:Devin Lloyd, we can talk about him. I'm not saying they're only doing it for the vibes, right? But they gelled so well last year, and they talent maximized so well that I think players will be highly motivated to stay there. and not for nothing, no state income tax, right? Like, I don't know, do the math on these things, Mina. Like if you're, California is what, like 13 % or something versus zero in Florida. Like if you sign a four year, $50 million contract and you're taxed 13%, I think like that's like$7 million less to go play for the LA Chargers and the Jacksonville Jaguars. That's real money, Mina.

51:59Mina Kimes:Yeah, no, I hear you. I would let him go personally.

52:04Field Yates:I know.

52:05Mina Kimes:All right, let's keep it moving. By the way, Field has to leave after we finish the offensive players. I'm going to do the defensive players on my own. Offensive players. Let's continue with the tight ends here. Interesting group.

52:22Field Yates:Yep.

52:23Mina Kimes:Kyle Pitts is the headliner. Goddard, Otten. if you want. It's very pick your flavor, right? Yeah, totally. Some of these guys are basically receivers. Odin's like a more complete tight end, which I think I would be surprised if he's a little more appealing because of that to certain teams. Likely in Baltimore. David Joku. Darren Waller, who was like sneaky. I feel like if Darren Waller was on any team other than Miami, it would have been a bigger story last year that he actually came back and looked good. Kolar, who's a blocking tight end.

52:53Field Yates:Yeah. He'll do well. Sneaky well.

52:55Mina Kimes:Well, I think all these blacking tight ends, especially after watching the Super Bowl, I'm like, maybe this is an area that teams should invest more in because teams that want to replicate that Seattle offense, I feel like it's such an important. There's other offenses around the league that are similar. But let's talk about Kyle Pitts because he's the most interesting name here. Kyle Pitts, last year, second in receiving yards amongst tight ends. like the quietest behind, of course, the God trade McBride. Do you feel like that? Like surprised hearing? Like, do you feel like you'd be able to talk?

53:31Mina Kimes:I don't know. It's just kind of snuck up on everyone. I feel like, and then obviously Drake London got hurt and that, that contributed to that as well. But it's not kind of shocking.

53:40Field Yates:It's beyond shocking Mina, as you know, a big part of my portfolio here at ESPN is of course fantasy football. And there are certain players that at some point I just abstain from analysis. I just say like I put a number next to Kyle Pitts to rank him and then I don't explain myself. I just let the hey, this is what it is. And you figure it out in your own people, right? Because after all these years of thrusting all my supports behind Kyle Pitts and being bitterly disappointed, I realize if I just don't talk about him, I won't be as emotionally distraught if he does not perform to expectation.

54:16Field Yates:And this year we got the pleasant surprise. Guys, it's going to bring up the age-old question of, is this a contract year blow-up for Kyle Pitts, who started to really feast when Drake London hurt his PCL late in the season? Or is this a player who came into the NFL as a 20-year-old rookie who is not even in the prime of his career yet? I think it tends to be more the latter. Could he be a sneaky tag candidate? They've got a lot of decisions to make, obviously, in Atlanta. But one thing I have noticed about new GMs, and this is not a negative, and it's certainly not a negative towards Ian Cunningham, who is a great – talk about somebody who had a ton of respect within the scouting community.

55:01Field Yates:Still does, obviously, but he was one of those guys, which is a matter of time before he got a job, is we're in the business of keeping good players tends to be like an axiom that they live by, especially early in their career. I don't know what to do, Mina, but if he gets the open market, 15 million a year yeah you know what what contract is throwing me for a whirl i'm throwing i think all the prospective tight ends for a world mina mark andrews why do the ravens extend it for three years and 39 million dollars i don't know but it makes me think isaiah likely's gone he's gone i mean he's gone and like the logical explanation mina is that as we know they were trying to get something down with likely as well uh charlie kolar you mentioned a minute ago There was a time where the Ravens had no tight ends under contract for 2026.

55:47Field Yates:Hey, you try your best with Likely. Nothing gets done. You got to secure some portion of the room. You basically take the deal and say, you want this Mark Andrews? And he takes it. Franchise legend. That felt like a classic pay you for what you've done as opposed to pay you for what you're going to do going forward. If you're Isaiah Likely, that's a bad example because Likely had a disappointing season, so it might be harder for people to understand. But if you're Kyle Pitts and Mark Andrews gets three for 39, you're going to the open market saying like minimum$3 to$4 million per year more, right?

56:22Field Yates:I mean, why wouldn't you? You're a way better player than Mark Andrews right now. And you're way younger as well.

56:30Mina Kimes:Yeah, I think. People will be surprised by how valuable he ends up being. That's all. In the same way that I was surprised when I just sat and looked at, I mean, like second and successful plays, despite being 12th in target rate, just, you know, he's never going to be.

56:48Field Yates:I was like, what metrics am I missing? I'm Mark Andrews right now. I know.

56:53Mina Kimes:Yeah. I also think, the other thing I think is kind of interesting about the tight end position and we can move on is like, one thing that's really changed in the NFL is you're seeing younger tight ends have more success early. Yeah. Used to be a position that really took a while to master and learn, but through a combination of NFL offenses becoming more college-like and just some unusual talent, like last year's class, unbelievable. Because I know, when I was looking at the tight end metric, I'm like, okay, there's McBride, there's Pins, and I was like, a lot of young dudes up here. It happens quicker than it does.

57:24Mina Kimes:And that could affect free agency as well. Kind of the flip side of the linebacker position where I always say I would sign a free agent linebacker because it takes young linebackers a while. Devin Lloyd being a great example of that, by the way. I feel like the opposite about tight ends. Like, I'm like, oh, actually, you can get pretty good pretty quickly.

57:40Field Yates:Loveland, like, might be my favorite young player in the NFL right now.

57:44Mina Kimes:Field. Loveland, Warren, and Fannin. are already amongst the best tight ends in the NFL.

57:54Field Yates:It's insane. Like how many combined all pros for those guys? Plus Trey McBride, Brock Bowers, like guys that are Sam LaPorta, if he gets healthy again, like those are all guys who are -

58:04Mina Kimes:AJ Varner in the Super Bowl.

58:06Field Yates:Yeah, oh my God. Varner's amazing. Yeah.

58:08Mina Kimes:I just, I just, I think that's a longer conversation, but I'm always, I think sometimes development curve for certain positions can also affect as if you're a team, like what are you looking at and how comfortable are we drafting and developing versus signing? This is a big part of why, by the way, running backs were always undervalued because they could come in and be so productive so quickly. It wasn't like, hey, we need a veteran back per se. All right, let's finish with the offensive line, then I'll let you go because you've got stuff to do. I'm just going to read. I grouped them all together because whatever.

58:41Mina Kimes:But some of the big names, Tyler Linderbaum, Raven Center, Rasheed Walker, the left tackle from Green Bay.

58:48Field Yates:They'll do really well.

58:50Mina Kimes:I really like Isaac Sayomalu, the guard, David Edwards' guard, Olivera Tucker. There's a lot of interior offensive linemen.

58:57Field Yates:Ed Ingram as well, I throw in there.

59:00Mina Kimes:Sorry?

59:00Field Yates:Ed Ingram from the Texans, I throw in there as well. Had a great year there last season.

59:04Mina Kimes:Better than I thought he would be for sure. There's some tackles, Luminor, Braxton Jones, Braden Smith, and then now just moving across positions, Betonio, Zeitler, Brown, Wilkinson, Jonah Williams, Zion Johnson. who's younger. But the big name, let's just, I mean, to me, the big two are Linderbaum and Walker. Would you agree with that? Linderbaum being a tier above.

59:26Field Yates:I was going to say, I would put Tyler Linderbaum in a category by himself. I believe, and I think I texted you this, Mina. He's the 2026 version of Milton Williams. And what I mean by that is two guys who let's assume that the Ravens don't tag Linderbaum get to free agency. A lot of these guys that get to free agency have a red flag, right? Like age, health, performance, whatever it might be. Milton Williams got there because Philly didn't, you know, they just had too much investment in the defensive line. They have so many guys they got to pay. We all know. Linderbaum, same deal. One more Cap Nurtum thing, but like he plays center, but for the fifth year option as a first round pick, the price tag was reflective of all offensive linemen.

1:00:07Field Yates:So it would have been like a$23 million option for the fifth year, which the highest paid center in the NFL is at like$18 million. The Ravens don't want to pay him$23.5, which is$5.5 million more than sort of the top of the market, because if you're Linderbaum and they're willing to option you for$23.5 million, then your starting point in negotiations is, how about a four-year deal at$23.5 million per year? I think Linderbaum's going to set the new market for centers, and it's circumstances got him there. I think he changes the offensive complexion right away. I think he's got a case to being one of the top, two to three centers in the NFL, Mina.

1:00:47Field Yates:And I think that the number is going to be big. And then by the end of next season, wherever he plays, we're going to say, yeah, like no one, when Milton Williams signed sticker shock, shock value, right? Now everybody's like, holy crap. Like he was, you know, for all the things the Patriots didn't do well in the Superbowl, like Milton Williams was like, he has been since he got back from the injury.

1:01:09Mina Kimes:Awesome. Can I throw out a crazy idea for Linderbaum? Because any team, there's so many teams around the NFL. I mean, Baltimore might try to keep him. I mean, there's just, I've kind of poked around and asked people and people were like, wait, where do you want to like this? Why not the Raiders? You have a rookie quarterback. You're bringing in.

1:01:29Field Yates:I love this idea.

1:01:31Mina Kimes:You're bringing in a head coach who's going to implement this Kubiak zone blocking scheme, which we know he's a really, really good zone blocking center.

1:01:39Field Yates:Yeah.

1:01:40Mina Kimes:you need a center to set to run the thing and set protections you have a good left tackle but this was offensive line was a disaster last year the quarterback i think i'll talk about him a lot in length very good but there's going to be adjustment period he's never played under center by the way so you know and you know jackson powers johnson they thought he would play center he didn't play center seems like more of a guard etc if you're gonna break them if you're the raiders and you're going to break the bank at one position, why not choose a position that can help your young quarterback and also your run game in a way that desperately, desperately needs fixing?

1:02:17Field Yates:And Mina, the counter from people will be something to the effect of the Raiders stink. They're not going to be good for a while. Tyler Lindenbaum is going to be good for a long time. This is not a 31-year-old center that still has one good contract left in him. This is not the Raiders signing Trey Hendrickson to try to further beef up their pass rush. Trey is that's a whole other conversation. This is a true blue, not even the middle of his prime center that could totally last beyond, like this could be a two contract player for whoever signs Tyler Linderbaum.

1:02:49Mina Kimes:And if you're like the lesson from Chicago, just go in all in on the offensive line and offense with the young quarterback. Screw the defense, figure it out later. You got one job. So anyways, Field, you have money jobs. You got to get going. I don't want to hold you any longer, but this was a ton of fun. And I'm sure you'll be back to talk about the draft and take a quick break and come back and talk about some of these defensive creations.

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1:05:46Mina Kimes:All right, we're back. I phoned a friend. Phil the Yates and I were just talking about all the offensive free agents, Greg. And literally, while we were talking, you were texting me about whether or not you had overrated Tariq Woolen. Greg, I know I've mentioned this poor, does an amazing list every year ranking. It's quite an undertaking, the top 100 free agents. um and is the list at when does the list come out the list does not come out until monday morning

1:06:19Gregg Rosenthal:but i've learned from making this list that the earlier i make it like the better i feel resorting but now it's just i'm just tinkering over and over you ask you send an email always

1:06:28Mina Kimes:asking like who should be higher who should be lower um one of the players in defense i i sent you i'm like obsessed with i think should be higher um but let's start let's before we get to the corners let's just go the order i usually go in and talk about the pass rushers first if that's okay with you um looming over this is the possibility of a max crosby trade uh radio fans don't like it when you bring that up i'm just saying it's just something i've seen i don't have any i'm not an insider i'm not uh i do think it's notable that they like promoted his purse like his did you see that they promoted like the defensive line coach i think or they gave somebody he's close with a job promotion, which suggests that they're trying to keep him to me.

1:07:12Gregg Rosenthal:And Clint Kubiak, you know, mentioned that he had coffee with Max Crosby on his first morning in the building. So that's a good sign.

1:07:20Mina Kimes:Max Crosby kind of quietly runs the Raiders for those who don't know. I did suggest right before you came on that the Raiders should spring for Tyler Linderbaum. So who is, is he your number one? Was it, or he is,

1:07:35Gregg Rosenthal:He was in the top four. I've been tinkering with that, too. I'm thinking about putting Malik Willis over him. But no, I had Pickens one, Linderbaum or Malik Willis two and three. Jalen Phillips is there near the top two.

1:07:45Mina Kimes:Well, let's talk about Jalen Phillips. OK, so pass rushers. Phillips is my top. Hendrickson. I've seen a lot of people who have Hendrickson over Phillips, which confuses me a little bit. And then you've got a mix of younger players and veterans. Boye Mafe, Adafi Owe, Khalil Mack. I would put kind of in that next tier. Then you're looking at, you know, Bradley Chubb, Quidipe, Joey Bosa, different sort of names and needs. Phillips, though, you just said is number one. I agree. I also feel like people are underestimating him right now. I've seen some numbers floating around that strike me as very low.

1:08:28Mina Kimes:So I guess, Greg, that's probably because he didn't have a lot of sacks last year. He was sixth in pressure rate amongst all edges, but only had five or single-digit sacks. But I thought he was transformational in the Eagles' defense. I think he's such a complete player. He plays the run so well. I think he is a player who's had that sack production in the past, so it feels a little fluky to me. He was healthy last season, which is notable. He's still very young. Am I missing something here? Do you think it's just the sack numbers?

1:09:04Gregg Rosenthal:No, I'm tempted to put him number one overall because if it was my team, I'd love where he's at. The back-to-back injury years, you could look at a few ways. They were really serious injuries, but the fact that he looked that good the first year back, I don't think anyone made more money this year than Jalen Phillips for himself because it would have been tough if he was a free agent last year. Adafi Owe, who we'll get to, is in that mix. But no, I think he's a complete player. I do not imagine the Eagles want him to lead the building. Yeah.

1:09:33Mina Kimes:He's such a dream fit for Vic Fangio's scheme that like, and, you know, the other pass rushers looked fine, but there's a reason why they traded for him, right? Like he was a necessity in some ways.

1:09:49Gregg Rosenthal:And he's so complete. He's so tough. And I do think you could look at the injury the other way around, which is now a year further removed from both of those injuries, which were pretty devastating. I think he could be even better. And so it's pretty rare a guy like this gets to free agency. Something weird has to happen, like a back-to-back injury year and Miami changing their entire organization. And so, yeah, I'm still tinkering. I'm tempted to put him number one overall and easily over Hendrickson. And to me, it's more of a debate whether you want a 32-year-old Trey Hendrickson or you get younger with like a more less complete player in a dafeo way or boy mafe.

1:10:27Mina Kimes:Yeah, I could see Hendrickson on like a little flyer deal, kind of like a mercenary track at this point on. I mean, we talked about destinations for the quarterbacks we haven't really done and the running backs didn't do destinations for the receivers and whatnot. but like I think there's there's a the problem is like a lot of the teams that for Hendrickson a lot of the teams that need edge have longer timelines like I do wonder if a team like a Buffalo like a team that's in it to win it now might be inclined to just do a short-term deal with him maybe a Kansas City maybe I mentioned Buffalo like is there any are there any teams you feel like that bloom out there who like I'm looking at cap space right now who just need an edge and might do like a one-year deal because he could put them over the top.

1:11:17Gregg Rosenthal:Well, the Patriots who are going to lose Chase on, I'm not sure how they feel about Harold Landry come to mind. The Bills, certainly. The Chargers are in this weird spot that Khalil Mack and Adafi Owe are free agents and they are not afraid to spend money on the defensive line. So they pop in too. But I think he's good enough. He's different than these other mercenary like Khalil Mac or Joey Bosa types where he can get two years of guaranteed good money, whether it's two for 60 or two for 50. Like you're not going to get Trey Hendrickson. I don't think at that big of a discount.

1:11:51Mina Kimes:I would. So the Bengals actually have a decent amount of caps because the way the offensive contracts are structured, I would love for them to go after one of the younger guys like a mafia or an OA just to bring in some competent pass rush. between those two players. I think it's an interesting debate. Mafei was part of a rotation in Seattle. The advanced metrics really like him. He was actually eighth amongst edges in pass rush win. He's a complete player. He defends the run. He's been really good his entire time in Seattle, but I would say good, not great. Owe was a player who was, again, not as, he was a first rounder, not as I think productive as they would have hoped in Baltimore, but really came alive after the trade to Las Vegas and was excellent, or Los Angeles, and was excellent after that.

1:12:46Mina Kimes:He has a lot of athletic tools and upside. The finishing is always a question between those two. I don't think I'm leaving. I think they, I would put them in the same tier unless you think someone else belongs there. Is there anyone you have a preference for?

1:12:58Gregg Rosenthal:Like my personal preference. I just like watching boy mafia on tape. He pops. He's so fluid. I have asked around and I feel like it is definitely consensus that Adafi is going to get more money and people aren't going to ignore the production because it was crazy at the end of last year, including in the playoffs. He had two forced fumbles and three sacks. That'll help him get paid. I don't think he's as good a run stopper. I do think he'll get more money. Personally, I like Mafi and you said good, not great. That's absolutely true. But there's so few good, not great players at premium positions that get to free agency at his age that he will get paid great money, I think.

1:13:39Mina Kimes:The defensive tackle group is a lot thinner. Who's your highest ranked defensive tackle?

1:13:45Gregg Rosenthal:Jonathan Franklin Myers.

1:13:47Mina Kimes:Who I like.

1:13:49Gregg Rosenthal:Good player, but 31, right? And has been to free agency before.

1:13:53Mina Kimes:That was such a weird – I always think about how weird it was that the Jets traded him for nothing, And then he was awesome in Denver. But yeah, I mean, DJ reader, the ageless Clay is Campbell.

1:14:06Gregg Rosenthal:I just underrate him every year. So this year I was like, I don't care how old he is. I'm just putting him in the top 50, like automatic. Cause he's the best bargain every single season. So I'm just not going to stop doing it. Yeah. No good young players though. Logan hall might be the best guy coming off a rookie contract, which, which says a lot.

1:14:22Mina Kimes:There's some specialists. Like if you need a Daquan Jones or a Joseph day, Sean Rankins, I think, can still play. Onyamata. But it's not a very stacked group. I don't see. There's certainly no Milton Williams types. Nobody jumps out to me as someone who I think is going to command a large contract. We can even skip over this. I just wanted to name the players. I do want to talk about the linebackers. Now, this, to me, is an interesting one. Devin Lloyd is the headliner. All-pro Devin Lloyd coming off of his best season. I don't know how. I think it's very hard to rank these guys because they all do such different things.

1:15:00Mina Kimes:But it's some combination of N 'Kobe Dean, Leo Chanel, Quay Walker, Devin Bush, who was kind of resurgent. Alex Anzalone, who's very active on Twitter. Do you see him chirping at the line?

1:15:16Gregg Rosenthal:I need to follow him, and I need to be worried because he's one of those guys that keeps getting lower and lower on my list. Careful.

1:15:23Mina Kimes:You have vets like Demario Davis. And then my beloved Caden Ellis, who I want to, I think I sent you. He should be higher on your list. Let's talk about Lloyd because that's the big one. So the Jags, the Jags didn't pick up his fifth year option. And he responded by having the best season of his career. He's only 27 years old. Obviously, the turnovers are the headlining or the interceptions, the headline grabber. but I thought he was good even outside of that. You know what I mean? He just saw such marked improvements in both coverage and playing the run. So earlier, when we were talking about ETN, I said I thought the Jags should move on from ETN.

1:16:05Mina Kimes:Field talked about like, okay, but the Jags, they want to ride the vibes of this season. To me, that's just keeping Devin Lloyd. I would be very surprised if they let him walk, especially they got their defensive coordinator. He's staying as well. do you think he is going to be too expensive for them or do you think he's a Jacksonville Jaguar

1:16:23Gregg Rosenthal:next year I think he's probably going to be too expensive for them at this point because they're not going to use the tag on him because that includes edge players it'd be 28 million dollars and I just at this point when you get this close to it he made enough flash plays I'm with you though it's not just about the the splash plays he is a little bit of an old school linebacker that can be boomer bust but I think the improvement was coming in his third season you you could actually see it he he improved to kind of a consistent player we always say that this is a position you develop slowly at so ultimately i think some other team will give him maybe not zach bond money but close enough to it that it's too much for jacksonville yeah i was saying how

1:17:03Mina Kimes:um with field like tight end now you're seeing such success early that that's kind of changes how you look at the free agents like seeing like all these young whereas linebacker like it just year after year takes a second. Like I love Jihad Campbell, but I think it's going to take him a second, you know, and then obviously...

1:17:21Gregg Rosenthal:Even N 'Kobi Dean, his teammate who's in this market. But now I feel great about N 'Kobi Dean.

1:17:25Mina Kimes:Yeah, I feel great. I mean, if I'm like a lot of these players, I would be interested. I think it's very scheme specific. I do want to hit on L. Ellis though, because I mean, I just think he's a weapon. Like if you're a smart, if you've got a creative defensive coordinator or your defense that likes to blitz a lot, how do you not go for a Caden Ellis, who I believe is the best blitzing linebacker in the NFL?

1:17:52Gregg Rosenthal:I don't know if that's... I love this. I send this list out to the people. I trust their opinions the most, in part because I want them to say things that I kind of believe, but I'm not ready to do it. And your love of Caden Ellis, that's all I needed to hear is to put him even higher because I love Caden Ellis. The godfather of NFL Network, Steve Weiss, who I look up to so much, he is Caden Ellis' biggest fan. And he thinks he's like one of the best players at his position in the NFL. And I'm with you. Even though he's 31 years old, he'd be a great, great signing.

1:18:21Mina Kimes:Sack machine. 17 % pressure percentage when he blitzed last year, which is extremely high. That's like what Toppen at Drusher's hit. And it's been that way now for years, right? This isn't like, he has a unique gift for getting to the quarterback. This is not like a one year, oh, Jeff Ulbrich got him blitzing a lot. And he got to play with better rushers. I do wonder Atlanta with, you know, James Pierce with his what's going on where he was charged. I don't misrepresent this, but there was an incident at the Super Bowl. Pretty, pretty charged with five felonies.

1:18:56Gregg Rosenthal:That is that is fair to say.

1:18:58Mina Kimes:So I do wonder if there might be more of a priority to keep Ellis to have some pass rush juice in that defense and keep things going. But I really like him as a player.

1:19:08Gregg Rosenthal:um interesting safety group i actually struggled with who to put on top here

1:19:16Mina Kimes:uh there's a lot of there's a lot of good there's definitely no like jesse bates but you've got a mixture of good young and veteran players brian cook uh in kansas city cam curl with the rams jalen hawkins who was pretty ascendant with the patriots on the other side of the ball kobe bryant who i thought was playing really well in seattle this season and then some older guys kevin byer dribble peppers did you have who did you have as your

1:19:47Gregg Rosenthal:number one safety so many guys i settled on brian cook because he's just a maniac and seems to be peaking i do worry sometimes the chiefs make these guys in the secondary look so good is that is that part of it and then they don't keep them but i don't i don't want to hold that against them

1:20:03Mina Kimes:a lot of the chiefs i i've wondered that too a lot of the defensive backs who have left have gone on like just like look at like a Justin Reed who's like still you know like um yeah I think that makes sense he's young he's pretty complete I think I love the way he um plays the run I think he's like a really great tackler I think Cam Curl is really solid for LA as well they're one where because I think they're gonna go young they're probably gonna draft a cornerback I wonder if they want and then they're obviously all in with Stafford coming back I do wonder if they're going to want some continuity on the back end and try to keep him.

1:20:38Gregg Rosenthal:They gave Quentin Lake that money. He's someone, it's funny that I got some response, you know, one saying, I have him too high. One has him to, you know, thinks too low because he's just that he's just that solid guy. And you can find safeties in free agency. Jaquan Brisker is another interesting name out there. Nick Cross is an underrated player for the Colts. Jalen Thompson actually just got a decent contract. It's just like, there's, there's guys. And I always overrate the safeties because it's the rare position you can find plus starters at, and then they don't get that much money. But I do think they're good players.

1:21:10Mina Kimes:If you could tell me that Brisker would be healthy, I would actually pick him over all of these guys. Right. But obviously he has the concussion history. He's my favorite.

1:21:18Gregg Rosenthal:He played almost every snap. It was crazy. Him and Bayard, I think, essentially didn't miss a snap this year. If you could have bet on that before the season, those two specific players not missing an entire snap almost all season is crazy.

1:21:30Mina Kimes:All right. corners so i'm gonna have two discussions with you one is about jamel dean and the other is about trike woolen but there's some other good players another chief chiefs have a lot of jalen watson um lante taylor monteric brown who was like shockingly good in jacksonville marcus jones who's an interesting he marcus jones is like one of my favorite people to ask other people in the nfl about because the opinions vary from we're going to attack him to he's their best player on defense which is hilarious um but let's start with jamel dean who's maybe not the best value but the best player i think it's safe to say of the group so he's coming off the best season no question he's coming off the best season jamel dean this year i sent these numbers to you because i was just like oh my god like i i remembered him being so good but statistically it's insane how good he was this year.

1:22:26Mina Kimes:These are just using NGS's nearest defender numbers. A lot of passer rating of 41, which is the lowest of any corner, had the highest success rate of any corner, negative 0.49 EPA per target. And in man coverage, I thought, okay, well, you know, Bucs played a lot of cover three. When they played man, passer rating was 53, second only to Quinnian Mitchell. Uh, he is 29 years old, so he's gonna be turning 30. He has had injuries. He didn't play the whole season. They're giving him his games. What do you do? Like, like, so the cop to me is like a Carlton Davis who the, who is the same age and the Patriots gave him a pretty sizable contract.

1:23:13Mina Kimes:Do you think that's overvaluing him because of the injury history? Because I view them as like similar values to an acquired team.

1:23:20Gregg Rosenthal:And I think Dean might even be just a better, pure corner.

1:23:24Mina Kimes:I think so.

1:23:25Gregg Rosenthal:And Dean is so strange. Bucks fans know this well because his games played are always really high. He's always just leaving games. Like he leaves the game and then he's back the next week. But he's such a good example of how tough it is to evaluate the cornerback position. I think I underrated him a little bit because it was an electric season he's coming off. But I try to look at the last three or four years. And like a lot of these cornerbacks, like he's up, he's down. He gets a big contract from the Bucs. Then he ends up having to take a pay cut going into last year to stay on the Bucs. And then he pops back up with an awesome year.

1:23:57Gregg Rosenthal:But you're right. I think pure peak, like what's the best chance to find an all pro, let's say, for 2026? Jamel Dean is probably your guy, even though he's a little older. Can you get him on like that Carlton Davis type contract? I think that's fair. And I do think that's what I'll get and why I'm going to put him a little higher than the list that you saw. reek woolen is i'm struggling i said marcus jones was divisive reek woolen is probably most divisive free agent in the entire would you say that like yes and and then when i thought about it too like would i feel confident giving him big money and if not because the ceiling is obvious and yet i don't know like you've watched him every single you know play of his career what what do you think about him betting on him moving forward okay i'm just playing his age because i

1:24:47Mina Kimes:know he's really young so okay so he's 26 right now so he's here in turn 27 uh selected in the fifth round in 2022 seahawks fans uh i feel like don't like him or are hard on him because he can be very up and down the highs are super high as like the the back-to-back plays against puka nakua in the nfc champion or yeah the nfc championship where i think like a perfect encapsulation of like the high and the low right like the play he made before he taunted puka or the sideline so it was an unbelievable play he is six foot five and built like i've compared him to one of those guys outside of used car lots with the the like inflatable like he's just you can't teach that and it's he's so long and has he's got great instincts that even when he does get beat on like double moves and whatnot his recovery speed coupled with his length erases it um he's got i think he's actually gotten a little bit better at tackling but he's still a very he's not a good tackler.

1:26:03So those are the highs.

1:26:05Mina Kimes:The lows are the next play. He gave up a big play. Like it happens mentally. He has lapses. He has penalties. Um, he's he, you know, there's been some pretty big mistakes in high leverage moments in Seattle.

1:26:23Mina Kimes:And I don't know what you do with a player like Like valuing a player like that is really hard. I think coaching staff is everything with him, like landing in the right room. Seattle, you could argue, was like the perfect place.

1:26:38Gregg Rosenthal:Right. I was going to say it's hard to think of a better situation. It does worry me a little bit that let's say like Josh Jobe is getting more snaps overall. I know there are different sorts of players. And so as I've gone through this process, I've maybe backed it up a little bit from the ceiling and thought about him more similar to Alante Taylor, a player I personally love and is different stylistically, but I kind of think is in a similar bucket of a boom or bust. The highs are really high, and maybe there's some lows.

1:27:07Mina Kimes:I'd much rather have Mullen than Alante.

1:27:10Gregg Rosenthal:I still think there's an Alante Taylor out there. You've always liked. He's going to have one great all-pro season, but it hasn't happened.

1:27:17Mina Kimes:You see your new Kaiser White? I mean. I like the middle class, like Watson and Brown, I think are both good players who I bet won't make too much money. I think there's a decent group of not guys who... I mean, I don't think Bowen's going to break the bank either.

1:27:37Gregg Rosenthal:He could do well, but there is some interesting guys in the middle. And then even the further middle class, Marcus Jones I would consider part of that too. Like, yeah, Asante Salmon Jr. was a guy I had pretty high on this list a year ago, and he did show he was healthy. And I thought played pretty well for the Steelers. Like he he's going to be an interesting kind of mid tier signing. Your guy, Josh Jobe, is out there. There's actually pretty good depth of players who had right. Who had good starter snaps. Kobe Durant had a pretty good season overall for the Rams. Not a great player. Cordell Flott had a good season for the Giants.

1:28:11Gregg Rosenthal:There's actually a decent amount of young players that are available.

1:28:14Mina Kimes:joe might be the reason why seattle doesn't bring back to equal to be honest um because that you know if they feel they can get him at a reasonable contract i thought he was terrific tackler saw him make a great play in the super bowl i think he was you know he's not perfect but like i thought he was pretty damn good in seattle this year um really impressed me yeah it's definitely not there's not like the there's no superstar i think there's some imperfect options dean is my favorite but i think that has to be the right has to be a win now team to me well i mean maybe not but it has to be a team that's willing to structure a contract that's probably a little bit front heavy

1:28:53Gregg Rosenthal:i'll give you two more names i always like buying low trevon diggs has shown you he can do it at the nfl level he's not going to cost a lot now because people are going to make the facial expression that you just made i don't know if nashon wright can ever do it again but hell that was uh lightning in a bottle. He's a free agent, and so I hope he gets paid for it.

1:29:12Mina Kimes:It was the main character in every game he played this year for some reason. Alright, that'll do it on the defensive players. Greg, when does the list drop?

1:29:21Gregg Rosenthal:It comes out on Monday before the combine starts, yeah.

1:29:25Mina Kimes:Okay, so this comes out on Wednesday, so in a few days. Go check out the NFL Daily Podcast wherever you get your pods. I'm sure Greg will be talking about it a lot then, and in the meantime, I am going to get back to watching Garrett Nuff's Fire vs. Clemson. Oh, thank you, as always, to my friends at Omaha Productions for making this. Sorry, I was so obsessed with thinking about getting back to watching Peter Woods. Thank you, as always, to everyone at Omaha Productions who makes this podcast. Kirsten Sebecki, Owen Saylor, Tucker Taschen, Jack Foster. And we'll see you guys on the other side.