Shough on You: Previewing the NFC South

30:17But by and large, liked what I saw. I can see why Saints fans are really excited. And I think and this is what we'll get to in a second. The Saints did a phenomenal job of building around him this offseason too. Yeah. So what are you what's your Tyler's Chuck scouting report? That was mine. He was one of my favorite players to rewatch this offseason. I came away thinking I don't know about long term, but I came away thinking like, oh, he he was much better as a rookie than Jackson Dart and Cam Ward. Situations were problematic, obviously, in all cases for different reasons. But maybe the lack of wow throws is true.

30:53Like the arm strength isn't crazy. But man, it's just I just watched it and was like, he is an NFL player. I don't know if he's going to be able to hold up playing this way and taking these hits because he's back there like Ryan Tannehill or even. OK, so it's so funny that you mentioned that because I was texting Solak and I was like, I'm watching Tyler Shuck. have you rewatched him and literally was typing ryan tannahill and we both hit at the same time ryan tannahill and i was like okay can we not do the tall tough white guy good straight line runner okay i was getting to cam is the other one the problem is those guys were absolutely massive i never seen a healthier quarterback than tannahill and newton for the most part cam newton take a week-to-week pounding like those two dudes did and just stand and just take it and sometimes seemed almost oblivious.

31:40I don't think Tyler Shook was oblivious because he did scramble, as you mentioned. But you hit everything I would have wanted to hit. I was excited. And the creation plus getting through reads quickly were the things I was most surprised by. And I think that's coaching too. I think Kellen Moore did a pretty good job with Spencer Rattler doing that too. He was getting one to two to three. He just has to take less sacks. He's just hoping to get to that fourth read. I think only Brady Cook and Geno Smith had a higher pressure to sack rate. So he's got to get rid of the ball because there's a lot of negative plays there.

32:17But so many times he's hitting the second or even third read pretty quickly, and that's impressive for a rookie quarterback. Tons of turnover. I talked about the Bucs turnover on the Saints offensive line. I mean, by the end, there were some real dicey lineups. They were rolling out there. I mentioned in the X-Factors pod that I was really impressed by Kelvin Banks Jr., their left tackle. But I do think you need Fuanga on the right side to take another step. Their big signing this offseason was David Edwards. Freaking love that. Absolutely love that to bolster the interior. Because the run game was...

32:55You and I talked about what we liked, what we saw from Tyler Chuck. I think it's pretty damn impressive he did it with zero run game also. So, right, like the Saints run game last year, 30th in DVOA, 31st in EPA per play. They averaged 0.7 yards over contact for carry, which is tied with Las Vegas. Their expected yards per carry per NGS was 3.2. Do you know how bad the blocking has to be for expected 3.2 yards per carry? So the offensive line, health, in addition of Edwards, signed Travis A. Chan. so hopefully that helps but I just want to say Tyler Shuck deserves a ton of credit for keeping that offense running without having he has good receivers we'll get to but the run game was non-existent last season yeah and it was third and long and a lot of those receivers weren't out there it was a lot of like Kevin Austin as the as your wide receiver to some week so that that was impressive this kind of brings up my overarching theory about the same offense specifically which as boomer bust as I'm talking about the Bucs I feel like this is the boomer bust offense like in the league maybe in in the offensive line is the biggest reason i think there is a path to them because i like the coaching i like shuck i like the offensive line if the offensive line hits as a top five group which you know if eric mccoy's healthy he's never healthy if fawaga takes a step in his healthy he hasn't really been healthy kevin banks i think is locked in as like a difference maker david edwards was a great signing caesar ruiz was one of the worst starters in the nfl last year and they just keep bringing him back and like he's had seasons where he's okay.

34:30There's a path that that's a top five group, and with some help, this could be a top 10 offense. But there's so many routes at every position. Everyone is injury prone. Yeah, so if you tell me Jordan Tyson, who's their draft pick, is healthy for the entire season, I really could see this being a top 10 off-passing attack. But obviously, he comes into the league with a ton of injury baggage. Hypothetically, again, watching Tyler Shuck, and I talked about the willingness to attack the middle of the field. As a rookie quarterback, he'll work back to the backside dick, right? You know what I mean?

35:05And you think about Jordan Tyson in that role along with Chris Olave. By the way, two receivers that just pair so well together in terms of their skill sets. That's a phenomenal one-two punch, hypothetically. Can we just take a moment and talk about how good Chris Olave is? That's another thing watching him. He is, like, aesthetically just my favorite type of receiver. to watch. I was talking a bit with Nate because we were talking about the number ones in the NSE South and all four teams have really good number ones. The smoothness and separation that he creates is so different. The way he attacks the football, I just love his game.

35:48The fact that they got a healthy season and he absolutely cooked, incredible, but injury history too. It's like, you're right. It is like a scary proposition to go all in here because it could be so great. Yes. As someone who kept my stock, I think I had him wide receiver one and two with Jameson Williams that year. Like, it was great to see him kind of become his truest self. Like, you're right. Like, the crispness with which he runs those routes, it's just like a cold glass of, like, water on a hot day. Like, there's something about watching Chris Olavi that, you're right, is very aesthetically pleasing.

36:24Although a year ago at this time, like we're worrying about his career because of those two questions. Is he going to play again? I know, yes. And that sort of speaks to what I'm talking about with the boomer bust of it all. Like him and Tyson and McCoy. Eric McCoy is like an idea at this point at center. Like you can't count on him to play a season. He just never, he never does. And yet he's like a captain in the center. It's a tricky spot to be. And yet because of that, and if you wanted to talk a little bit about Kellen Moore, like I think he really had growth his rookie year. And I kind of liked what he did.

36:55I think he put his players and his quarterbacks in good positions. And so that's why I like the upside. The ceiling is there for this team. I think the floor is there too. I think it could be an awful team. Like it really could be totally like very like 10 wins or it could be very low. The episode was fun. You mentioned Velae who's like a contested catch. God made some of the craziest watching. They drafted Bryce Lance. Trey Lance is super fast, super big, younger brother. Jawan Johnson. There's another. I kept noting. I was like, he's freaking good, dude. Jawachowski's a good tight end. He's not a great tight end.

37:27They drafted Oscar Delp. So, fun group. I'm optimistic, but injuries are, to me, the concern and the question. Defense.

37:40Quietly, 13th in DVOA last year. 11th in EPA replay. 6th in success rate. Brandon Staley, man. Turn it around. Staley signs. um the investment in the offense did come at the expense of investment in the defense i noticed that right like his uh you did bring back kate and ellis he's a meanic times all-star but there's some speculative ads tyree wilson they did direct kristen miller who's a nose signed martin emerson but there was clearly the priority was to focus on the offense which i get young quarterback makes sense so i think for staley the challenge is like can you continue you to kind of coach this group maybe above their talent level uh which is i think what he did last season yeah the numbers are exactly what you would expect from a brandon staley defense like i think among if not the most cover three in the league so they're they're holding down that middle of the field it's just a ton of zone trying to prevent the big play they found a player who they're gonna use that nickel this year in yonas sanker who was a safety player and it's really important in that defense like but it's a little scary that how high up like him kaden ellis and cam jordan uh who did resign in the end are to like how good are you gonna get double digit stacks again from cam jordan yeah kaden ellis was awesome in atlanta last year but he's 33 or 34 it's it's very mickey Loomis that he decided to get younger at linebacker and he went from like 37 year old tomorrow to Mario Davis a 32 or 33 year old Kate Nellis like that's very Saints linebackers very important because one of the things Staley did and Cody Alexander who has an excellent newsletter people should check out Substack that um got there's an excellent piece he did on the Saints defense and kind of how Brandon Staley solved some of their problems despite limitations with talent was he played a ton of base defense, meaning three linebackers on the field, which made them very stout against the run mentioned earlier.

39:50Every time they faced multiple tight end sets, they would trot out that base defense. But then, and this is what the piece gets into, they would play like quarters behind it to cap the play action. And it really worked. They were like really good against play action. They were really good against the run. There are some vulnerabilities created by that structure but linebacker is important to pull that off so gay now assigning needs to work uh i'd like to take a moment to talk about another observation i had while re-watching the saints this particular defense chase young i feel like nobody's talking about the fact that he's awesome again um i think awesome like in a way that maybe he's never been before or at least not since to Ohio State, Chase Young.

40:35Finished the season eighth in pass rush win, seventh in pressure rate. Did have quite a high sack to hit rate, which is not, you know, always great. But the tape echoes that. The thing I kept writing down over and over is he's so strong. I guess he's always been, I mean, he has always been a part of it. He's a big dude. But like the bull rushes he was putting on left tackles, tremendous. And when you consider his pedigree and what he looked like, you know, as a rookie, it's not that surprising, but it kind of feels like because he's taken such a weird NFL journey, or it's been injuries and whatnot.

41:14And also it's the Saints, maybe it got a little slept on that he's rebounded in such a big way. The yeah, the purse snap numbers, in terms of all the stats you mentioned, like, he was like a top five Ed Drescher in the league, just in terms of just some some of the crazier analytics i wouldn't put him there but when we did we did a draft on on nfl daily i did it with ollie connelly and i like chase young ended up going off the board in the top 25 or so because at a certain point like you got like you got past players that were true like every down difference makers and if once you got to the players that like to me he is much better you know rushing the passer and everything he is very strong um but he's much better rushing and they rotated him, which was smart.

41:56He's one of the best at that right now. And it's great to see, kind of like Olave, a guy realizing he's potential. My issue, though, is I love him, but this group does not have enough juice maybe next to him. He is not an entire group. Yeah, interesting to see if they can get anything from Tyree Wilson, who spiritually was always a saint from a size perspective profile. Another former first-round draft pick. Granderson's good. right? But not. I think the defensive tackles are just okay. It's a lot of young guys, man. Like McKinstry, can he take another step? He has ball production, but coverage lapses.

42:37Quincy Riley looked decent for them. Justin Reed is still really good, really solid at safety, but yeah, there's just... They re-signed Julian Blackman, so I think to put a bit pin on it, 13th again feels maybe a little bit there. They definitely benefit from the division, but I do think this can at least be an average defense again. I really do. And by the way, there's not that big of a gap between 13th and 16th. I hope so. There is a route where they get way worse. I couldn't believe like the DVOA projections has them as like the 31st defense in the league. Really? Yeah. It's one of the worst teams in general in the NFL, which was a little like, Ooh, What are they seeing?

43:25What am I missing? Well, maybe it's the overall just lack of talent, and especially lack of pass rush is hard to overcome. If like Brian Bracey is your second best pass rusher, he's pretty inconsistent. But yeah, that was surprising to me. Maybe they weren't counting on the Brandon Staley sons to be a consistent winner. All right. Well, part of the reason I'm high on them is I have some questions about the division. So let's take a quick break, come back, and talk about the Falcons and Panthers. I like things my way. My coffee, my schedule, and my treatment. So I talked to my doctor about self-injecting with the Vivgard Hytrulo Pre-Filled Syringe, which contains F-Gartigamide Alpha and Hyaluronidase QVFC.

44:06It's injected under your skin subcutaneously. It means I can inject in my space on my time. It's my treatment, my way. Visit VivgardMyWay.com. That's V-Y-V-G-A-R-T MyWay.com. and talk to your doctor about Vivgard Hattrulo. Brought to you by Argenics. Right now, O 'Reilly Auto Parts gets you back to savings. Pick up select Royal Purple Fuel System additives. Buy one, get one free. Plus receive four times O rewards points. Stop by your local O 'Reilly Auto Parts store or shop online at OReillyAuto.com. Shohei Otani's interpreter was fired today. Ipe Mitsuhara ran up gambling debts to a Southern California bookmaking operation.

44:47The inside story of the biggest scandal in modern baseball. He was absolutely bananas, the amount of bets he was making. I've never seen anyone like it. From 30 for 30 podcasts, this is the betrayal of Shohei Otani. Presented by Gusto. New episodes available now. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. All right, we're back. Atlanta. Another defense that was interesting to go back and rewatch. But let's start with the offense. quarterback competition, but it hasn't actually begun because one of the quarterbacks is not playing football. Seems like Tua Tugweiler is going to start, right? I mean, we can do the who's better.

45:26Okay, well, let me rephrase that. We're probably going to see both of these guys. So, you know, Tua on his face, much better fit for the Kevin Stefanski offense. Get the ball in the hands of your playmakers who are awesome. Try to keep things running on time, quick, accurate. Panic still, he's played like 12 games. Like, you know, it's just, it's just tough at this point to project. It's sad too. Like, think about, what were you thinking about him at this point a year ago? I'm not giving up, but he doesn't make a lot of sense with Kevin Stefanski to your point. And we'll see. Like, two is not exactly a guy that you would count on to stay healthy the whole season either way.

46:17Yeah, so he was such a turnover machine last year. I think that's the other thing that could factor into this.

46:31If he really has one of those multi-turnover games and Penix is healthy again, that could also be a precipitating change for a quarterback switch, not just the potential for injury. I think it's a what's Atlanta it's obviously a bummer because there's like they have superstars John Robinson might be the best running back in the NFL Drake London is I think a superstar I feel comfortable saying that although very thin group outside him I think I kind of slept on that I mentioned Zachariah Branch he might need a play because the Hudson and then Zaccheaus Kyle Pitts if you consider him as basically a receiver although you know I think his game has become a little bit more balanced but yeah it's not it's a very top heavy group in Atlanta it is and you can just imagine to uh who you know could be effective in this sort of offense Kevin Stefanski has schemed up some pretty effective offenses with Jacoby Brissett and with you know with early career Baker and, and the combination of like, if, if they're spreading it out and even the draft pick, you mentioned Zachariah branch, like he seems like a guy you want to get the ball too quickly too, is going to get rid of the ball quickly.

47:48Like I'm trying to figure out what this new group is in general. The Falcons are kind of like my, my biggest, like why what team in the NFL? Like you bring in Matt Ryan to run football operations in a more meaningful way than I think I expected, like making football decisions to the point where their new GM, Ian Cunningham, does not have like final say over the matter. And just in general, a lot of the team build feels like a lot of why. Like I have to see this. I kind of wanted Kevin Stavansky to take a year off. He felt like he was really tired. He just needed to like refresh some ideas. You know what I mean?

48:27Go in the lab for a year or something. One question I have about the Falcons is whether or not we're just penciling the offensive line being decent because they're decent and maybe overlooking all the attrition that they've experienced there. You know, it's been like, I don't know what year I would put as the peak per se, but players have retired. Players have left. Jake Matthews getting up in the years. Chris Lindstrom is still great. But outside of them, you know, I mean, I guess Bergeron's a bit like it's just I don't look at this as a dominant run blocking unit. And if the premise of this offense is like, well, dominant outside zone run game with Bijan, I do wonder if maybe we're taking that for granted a little bit.

49:16Totally. I don't even know if they were a good run blocking group last year. I think it's just so sick. He just makes them look good. On the other hand, like how much does Bill Callahan have left? So that is their offensive line coach. That is one of the most interesting like, yeah, assistant coach moves. He didn't have his Browns group, like humming in a Callahan type way the last season, season and a half really in Cleveland. But if he's like the old Callahan, then, and you can, you, if you told me three years ago, you're, you're getting Bill Callahan offense with John Robinson. Like that sounds incredible to me.

49:51So I, I do want to see how that looks, but you're right on paper. It's not the most talented offensive line anymore. Do you think if you're a Falcons fan, you want to see Penix Jr. during the season? Yes. Yes. Because here's the thing. The Falcons are hard to talk about because it's kind of unclear what their goals are, and it feels a little bit like they're treading water with how they've approached the quarterback position. And we know where this is going with Tua. I'm not optimistic about Penix at this point, but at least let's see it again. You know, right? I talked about how Zach Robinson has the opportunity to prove in Tampa that he was hamstrung by his quarterbacks.

50:31Penix has the opportunity to prove that he was hamstrung by Zach Robinson. That's funny. It's like a couple that breaks up, and you're like, all right, show me if you can date someone better. Let's see who's the real catch here. Because, you know, I think Penix's camp, I've always heard like, well, you know, it's not that he won't play under center. It's the elephants and da-da-da. Okay, see ya. You know, the problem is you might have a head coach in Stefanski who prefers Tua. That's like his type of guy. It's the guy that they decided to bring in. And he wants to show that he's not the guy that Deshaun Watson made him look like to be.

51:07And like, that's the type of offense he wants to run. It's why it's the whole thing is a little confusing to me. The word was that Arthur Blank, the owner, had been sold a bill of goods that like, we are going to compete and be like a real contender last year. And he was just so disappointed. It's just like, I'm not bringing these guys back. And yet, like, this wasn't a rebuild type of offseason. They just, like, picked around the margins, a lot of backups. And they still have the same guy running defense, which we'll talk about. And so I'm not sure, like, you're saying, like, what they're going for.

51:39It just feels like a lot of why. And they're not going to be bad enough, I don't think, to be near the top of the quarterback market. All right. Well, let me say something nice. Drake London's sick. I was thinking that watching some of these games. So good. All the wide receiver ones, Olave, Drake London, I guess Igbuka is the wide receiver one, and then Tedrow and McMullen. They're all young and they're all awesome. I actually don't even, I was talking to Nate about this. I don't even know how I'd rank them. Olave makes it tricky because of his injury. If you could guarantee me Chris Olave's health, I would actually probably put him one but that might just be my aesthetic preferences mcmillian london are more similar that's a tough all right i'm gonna put you on the spot one two three four four receivers i mentioned how would you rank them is it for 2026 or is it long term if you were building yeah uh no take out context you're building a team okay i would actually go team mac i think one and London two and Olave just because of this as much as I love Olave because of the size and the concussion stuff he would be a close third but they're they're all close if Olave was healthy it's different but I think it's totally fair to account for the injury history T-Mac over Drake well you're saying like build the team and so I I like the mystery box as great as Drake London is and he's awesome.

53:15T-Mac is maybe already in the ballpark. It's crazy that he was so good. So that I'm like, is there another level? But Drake London's level is crazy, which is why, how can this team be boring? Don't be boring. How could you be boring with Bajon Robinson and Drake London and Kyle Pitts, who's fun to sprinkle in there? I understand if you're listening to this podcast, you're probably sick of me hearing me say this, but why couldn't you have signed Malik Willis? It would have been fun. Yeah. It might be bad, but at least I would be like, I want to see some, something fun. I understand why they didn't.

53:48I'm just being annoying. Let's talk about the defense. Cause this was similar to the saints. The NFC South quietly has four decent defenses, right? Like there's no bad defense in this bunch. They were good last year. They mostly beat the, they beat the Rams, the bucks and the bills last year. The Falcons are very confusing team. And it was mostly because of their defense. It was, yes. They, I mentioned this. they made like all the great quarterbacks look worse and they were fifth in variance FDN tracks that which checks out but they ultimately did finish 12th in DVOA very good against the pass finally got a pass rush six in pass rush win however some questions some losses David Onyemata was quite impactful for them.

54:41He's gone. Caden Ellis was very good last year. He's gone. James Pierce, who was their first round draft pick pass rusher they traded up for, his status for the 2026 season is up in question because of a very alarming incident he had last year. I just want to make sure I get the facts right here. I was pulling it up. He was arrested for aggravated battery, basically following his ex-girlfriend in a car trying to keep her from going to the police uh he's in a pre-trial diversion program but um the nfl should and we'll see but act i don't know when that's always the question um so and he was their leading you know in terms of sacks last season uh it was a great draft right like xavier watts was awesome we'll get to the back end but up front that front seven, a lot of questions.

55:39I think a lot of pressure on Jalen Walker, who was their top draft pick to step up. So I wanted to ask you what you thought of him, because I do think if like for this defense to keep building on what they did last season, he has to take another step this year. I watched them a little for the edge rusher draft. I mentioned, I think he was just on the outside, but man, he was fun to watch. And I thought got better during the year and has real strength and versatility. And I think I heard you guys talk about like Abdul Carter's star rising. I wouldn't put Jalen Walker on that level. He's a very different sort of player, but I, I do feel like confident, not as confident in Carter, but confident that he is going to be a good NFL player.

56:24And I was really surprised to hear Jeff Ulbrich mentioned Caden Ellis specifically about a guy that he wants Jalen Walker to at least partly replace in the defense. What did you think about that? Yeah. So Walker, for those who have forgotten, was seen as sort of a tweener. Maybe he'll play a hybrid role coming into the NFL. Falcons used him as an itch, right? So then I also saw those comments. Ellis leaves, and there's talk. It's kind of similar to when he came into the league. Like, oh, we're going to use him. Sometimes he'll be walking up the line scrimmage. Sometimes he'll be in coverage. I do question whether they can afford to do that, given how much they need him to get after the quarterback for all the reasons that I laid out.

57:12And I do think also, like, I'd like to see him continue developing as a pass rusher. Because I share your excitement. Like, it was very fun to watch. Juice is the thing that just, the dude is super fast, super athletic, super, his motor runs really hot. He's got great eyes. I feel like he was constantly chasing quarterbacks, you know, like to the sideline because he's really good at diagnosing run pass. I do think like strength needs to improve a little bit. And when they would like reduce him inside or whatnot, it wasn't that effective. But there's, I think he has the ability to continue getting better as a pass rusher and they they need pass rush i mean this team that blitz is like crazy but if you know i mean i i will add they uh the defensive tackles i think uh gave them some of that brandon dorliss uh they have zach harrison they traded for mason smith was an interesting player for player trade with uh i don't know what to say that was Jacksonville with Rook Aroro.

58:15I don't know. But yeah. That was another like why moment. Why did you do that? Rook Aroro. It was kind of fun. There's depth. Ojolari. Ebukon. Ebukon. Still in the league by the way. Samson Ebukon. I was like, oh, there you are. But yeah. I do think Walker has to we'll see what happens with Pierce but Walker needs to be that guy. And be a complete player because Pierce, I think he got the sack totals last year but But he is also someone with a great first step and everything. But that's it. He's kind of compromising the integrity of the run defense and stuff. And a lot of big plays were at him.

58:52And you're right, Walker has that juice. But to me, he could be a little bit more of a complete do-everything, like with Pro Bowl, all-pro type of upside if he continues. And if Pierce is gone, you're right. It's just not a lot of juice up front. You're counting on a really good-looking secondary, young secondary, with some potentially good players to carry the day. And you do have a guy in Jeff Ulbrich, a defensive coordinator, who makes me less worried about this team build in a way, because it really wouldn't have made sense that this defense, which felt like made for Raheem Morris and Jeff Ulbrich, didn't have one of them coaching.

59:31But the fact that Ulbrich is still there and can get weird and get creative and knows these guys makes me feel better. Safety's great. Xavier Watts, exceptional rookie season, 11 PBUs, five interceptions. Jesse Bates, maybe not quite at his peak, but still a very good player. Corner room, you know, I mean, AJ Terrell, I think is good. And we'll see if his brother, Evian Terrell, plays opposite him. That'd be a cool story if that happens right away. But there's some question marks. Billy Bowman got hurt last year, or nickel. it's not a super deep group no with with bowman hurt it could be avion terrell maybe to be at nickel they're nickel but then you have mike hughes is like your corner on the outside which was a problem it wasn't great i did i've always liked aj terrell and i did think he fit well in this system i guess any cornerback would uh because you don't have to cover as long with all the pressure but he is an instinctive player that i think had a pretty good year last year yeah I feel that to AJ a beyond Tyrell I don't know how much I talked about him I went back to my notes watching him I do there's a lot to like I think he's a great athlete makes plays on the ball I did write down that I felt like he got a little out physical at times so I do I don't know we'll see how he I mean it is cool that he's my second area His brother is awesome.

1:01:02So we'll see. I have this earmarked as a step back defense, candidly. I mean, I guess the Saints to some extent as well, but I think some of those departures are a little tough, and the Pierce thing is kind of, you know, his availability is also a pretty big factor, and whatever the NFL does there will probably impact how they are this season. But I do like the continuity with the coach. Falcons are hard man I I don't really know what to make of this team right now don't either like I said they're they are the why team to me and they will need a schematic advantage I think they got among the best schematic advantages last year on defense I think they did a good job and so I think they're going to need that again really really on both sides I don't think the talent is there even even with the rest of this division I'm not sure it's it's right there with them as you know managing maintenance repair and operations is never easy but for the ones who always rise to the challenge grainger has your back from professional grade products you can count on to fast dependable delivery they're there to help you keep things running smoothly plus their technical product specialists are here to help answer your toughest questions and because grainger knows safety is always a priority they're committed to being your partner in protecting both your people and your facilities.

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1:04:12unfortunately just been devastated by the injury bug early offensively Quanu not surprising starts on the injury list but the Taylor Moten thing sucks Taylor Moten blood clots I believe they're still not sure undergoing treatment for about a month going to continue through the start of the season he's their best offensive lineman that sucks now. They did address it even before they knew that, which is really a good reminder. You can never have too many offense. Anyone who thought, why do the Carolina Panthers need to sign Rashida Walker? Why do they need to draft an offensive tackle? Always be drafting offensive linemen because you never know when you need them and they're going to need them right away.

1:04:55Rashida Walker and Freeling are going to start. Interior, Damian Lewis, they brought in Luke Fortner, the Saints center. Robert Hunt missed the entire season last year. That was a big deal. Okay. Bryce Young. So statistically not great last year. Dirty first DVOA, 30th in yards per attempt. There were some things he did well at. Didn't take a lot of sacks. Didn't throw a lot of interceptions. Threw a good deep ball. Just didn't throw it enough, probably. I think if you wanted cope. He faced the highest quick pressure rate of any starter, and it looked like that when you watched because of the aforementioned offensive line issues.

1:05:49But going back and rewatching, I went back and watched a couple games, or a few games actually, the Bucs games, the Rams games, because the Rams games were his, he was probably at his best in them. I came away still feeling pretty uncertain about all of it. Where are you at on Bryce Young right now? Yeah, I'm there. And I feel like they're there, the name being Dave Canales and their front office, which may be a part of the problem. If you were going to construct a Bryce Young offense, like if they had more confidence in him, is this the way they would construct it? Even going into last year, where I think he finished the previous season playing well, but it was when they spread it out and started playing a little tempo and let him play.

1:06:31And then at the beginning of last year, they just went back to kind of the Dave Canales play action back to center stuff. By the end of the year, they're playing more empty. They're mixing it up. If Bryce Young is going to work, I feel like him changing the play, and he does a lot of changing the play. I think as he gets older, he's always reminded me a little of Alex Smith, not as big and athletic as Alex Smith was. But if he's going to win, like win maybe a similar way. And it's almost handing the keys over to Bryce Young to run things. And I don't know if they're going to be that confident enough to do that.

1:07:05So I'm with you. I went back and I'm not sure what to feel. A lot of his best plays to me are him getting flushed out by those quick pressures and then making a good like second read while he's on the move. I think it was his best NFL season in terms of his overall play. It didn't quite show up in the stats, but it wasn't like a big enough step forward that you feel great about it long term. Yeah, looking at some of my notes from those games, similar to you, a lot of the best stuff's outside of structure um there's he has armed talent he throws a very catchable football I don't think he really drives it like outside the numbers you can see balls die on him a little bit like that rainy game against the Bucks I think that was week 18 that specifically showed up on I think it was an interception like to the outside and stuff yeah it was an outbreaker that dies on him to McMillan um but then there's like great plays in that game like there's one where he He stepped up in the pocket and beats McMillan, or he hits McMillan on like a deep dig.

1:08:05That's just a beautiful ball. By the way, McMillan. What Tedrow McMillan did to those Bucs corners, poor Pincham Morrison, just disgusting. Like he was just cooking them. I mean, I just wrote McMillan cooks Morrison, McMillan cooks Parrish. There's the deep post. Bryce is under a ton of pressure. So McMillan has to slow down, but I think it's defensible. But he just wrecks, I think it was Parrish on that play. Uh, yeah. So he, he's a touch, he's a touch quarterback, you know? Um, it's tough. Interior pressure is an issue and you saw them try to find solutions for that. I think if the offensive line, I mean, sucks that they're already have these injuries early on.

1:08:47Uh, I, I think the Panthers, you know, we talked about Baker and how they, the Bucs are in a tough spot. I think the Panthers, reading between the lines, are actually handling this correctly. I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem like they're in any hurry to do a deal. They're like, yeah, sure, fifth-year option, let's see. Which is no small thing, by the way, beyond this year, but I do think that they're approaching it with some skepticism and fairly. The way quarterback contracts work now, even though Bryce Young was the number one overall pick, like$25 million for next year guaranteed is just low enough that you're like, well, is that tradable?

1:09:32Like for, you know, another team where we take on some of the money, that's kind of low-level starter money. I do feel like they could get out of it if they want. But he is like just improving enough. You mentioned like the preventing the mistakes. Like that's how he's going to win. I couldn't believe they were 31st in pace, which feels like a crime when Bryce Young is your quarterback. I think he could excel that way, but they're so young in the offensive line last year. And maybe this year again was so banged up that like, you just don't feel the confidence to like leave the guys on the field and like really understand it.

1:10:06So they, they don't have enough depth around them. The running game. I'm sure you were going to mention like it, it's, it was awful and they were so run heavy. They stayed run heavy the whole time and it was terrible. So you mentioned the quick pressure, no running game. And so there were mitigating factors, but there's some games where he just looks small. I hate to say it as a small man myself. How do you feel about the pass catchers? McMillan, Coker, Leggett, they drafted Chris Brazel, Speedster.

1:10:42Do you feel like that's enough or do you feel like they're still missing a guy? Yeah, they were screaming for like a Romeo Dobbs type. you know and free agency just like one more guy that didn't need to be like a star like if if the patriots were down to trade kasha on booty i don't know if that's actually a great fit although i think he's more versatile than he would think either way i'm they just need like one more guy because i i like chris brazel spent some time at tulane did some good things but another tennessee receiver like for that is just a boomer bus guy they're talking they're trying to talk up xavier Leggett, their tight end position is not great for pass catchers.

1:11:17Tommy Tremble. And so it's just not deep dynamic enough. As much as I like Coker, and we've already talked about how much I like T-Mac. Do you think T-Mac has, because he's already, I would say, a top 15 receiver. Ooh, yeah. Right? Yeah, I think so. If I'm saying he's in the class of Drake London, you're probably right. I did not, I'm trying to think where he landed, but you're right. Maybe that's like if you look on how many other teams would TMAC be the number one wide receiver? Yeah, like half the league and the ceiling seems high. It's kind of crazy how much draft debate there was about him now looking back.

1:12:00I liked him. And even as someone who liked him, still even better than I thought. I think the thing I love the most about his game is just the. What is he? He's almost like I said, I compared him to DeMar DeRozan. He's just like he's he's like an automatic mid range guy. And that actually pairs well with and I think. He could argue he could do more maybe with the quarterback, a different, you know, quarterback is willing more to push the ball downfield. But as far as like how reliable he was working those intermediate throws, really good fit for Bryson. and you really saw him benefit from his presence there.

1:12:45Totally. And one of Bryce's biggest strengths is that he does give his receivers a chance, which is why I thought last year was a step forward. It's like he was not putting the ball in harm's way, and yet I think he's an aggressive thrower. He gives Jalen Coker and McMillan chances. He just needs more ball winners. The Coker contract that they signed this offseason is going to age incredibly well. It was one of those almost taking advantage of an undrafted free agent of just uh it's gonna be one of the best contracts in the league if he is as good as he looks to be

1:13:18defensively another brutal injury nick scorton this sucked it sucked because i i talked about this when i did the top 10 defenses i was tempted to put the panthers in there and because i love the additions but then i felt like okay you get bring in jaylen phillips he's your number one. Skorton flashed enough last year to where I could imagine him benefiting from the attention that Phillips gets and taking another step forward. But outside of him, it's really a thin pass rushing group. And so that to me was like the position where they probably could afford least to lose someone and to lose him in that way for the season.

1:13:58Just absolutely brutal. Yeah, I think you could argue between Moten and Skorton. And that's two of their eight, 10, 12 most important players on the team. I think Moten was the key guy to the, to the offensive line. And you mentioned it was scoring because after it, they took a draft pick last year, who just didn't show anything barely could get on the field and it didn't look great when he did. And they don't have veterans. They seem again, it's early as we're, you know, it's late July. They should sign someone. Bring Clowney home. Come on. Genevieve Clowney. Clowney is just forever going to show up and show up in August, give you 200 good reps a year.

1:14:44Joey Bosa is out there. I don't know if Joey Bosa wants to play football again. But yeah, I think they will. They are a team that's going to have another veteran just because it's not talented enough overall. I'm with you. I like Devin Lloyd. I like at linebacker. I like Jalen Phillips in terms of their pickups. I think they had a good offseason. It's just been a brutal first week of camp. Yeah, I mean, like, I keep saying this, but they have really good players at every position now. Safety may be a little dubious, but they're fine. Could be better. It's a funny defense. They finished 22nd in DVOA, which feels about right.

1:15:22It's a funny defense because they had really good players who, and they had role players who became great players, but they just had such obvious holes that offenses knew how to attack. I was looking up, so their past defense was, you know, they really struggled on third down, gave up a lot of conversions. So I looked this up on True Media, their EPA per play versus receivers lined up wide was actually ninth best in the NFL. versus receivers in the slot. They were 30th and versus receivers lined up in line tight ends. They were 30th as well. So it's like, it's no mystery of what offenses wanted to do against the Carolina Panthers, which is not thrown the direction of Mike Jackson and JC Horn whenever possible and go after their backers and their safeties and their nickel.

1:16:14And I think whether or not they improved, I think linebacker for sure, nickel and safety a little bit more of a question mark right it's kind of a theme if you we talked about the receivers you're talking about the secondary where you have a couple guys you love but their nickel back I think right now projected is Chow Smith-Wade and Nick Scott the former Bengal might be starting at safety like we're not sure who's starting to even at linebacker where I love Devin Lloyd I I think his ascension is legit because to me it was over two years he's he's a I think he was good the year before. But then it's like, who's playing the other spot?

1:16:52And Derek Brown, we haven't mentioned, their best player on defense for years, and he's holding it down, and he helped their run defense a ton. But after they swung and missed on Milton Williams, they gave a ton of money to Turk Wharton, who had a good playoff run for the Chiefs and gave them nothing last year. Unfortunately, it might have been impacted by an injury. He's coming off a neck surgery, and his status is totally uncertain for this season too. So it's a lot of positions where it's like a couple good players, but not the full team build. And I have some sympathy for Dan Morgan who took over because it was a rough looking roster when they got there.

1:17:29I imagine they were 26 in DVOA. I mean, the fact that they were even that was impressive given what they looked like. The run defense the year before was the worst in the NFL. It was just abysmal. And they really did. obviously getting Derek Brown is probably the biggest part back from injury, but you did see improvement. I mean, you feel bad for Morgan. How about a Vero their defensive coordinator? Like I just feel like he, he's been so up against it and it's like, okay, cool. We gave you good players this off season, but Oh, immediately you lose your first round, your second round rookie edge rusher.

1:18:02And Oh, by the way, you know, I don't know. He's one of those guys that ever, that because the tree quote unquote, the Shanahan McVay tree is everywhere. They all love a Giro Evero. And supposedly they've like come after him almost every year, like for various jobs, but the Panthers never let him go. Cause it would be a lateral move. They, they believe in him and he has to be thinking like, can I, can I even show what I break? Orlovsky told me that he was a Vero was one of the most impressive coaches he met with in the NFL and like the meetings that they have for Monday night. I still think they can be good but I do think they need more edge and I feel like Mike Jackson's in a contract year if he's anywhere close to what he was last year he's going to get paid a zillion dollars you know what I'll say this though Mike Jackson, some numbers Mike Jackson last year is so good 19 passes defense just insane big part of why the Panthers were second in EVOA versus number two wide receivers obviously got better matchups because of JC Horn but he was the best corner and here's what I'll say about this you might think well what how likely is it that he's going to repeat probably not going to have 19 passes defense again but he was always good in Seattle man I'll just say like he was never bad and I think he took his game to another level in Carolina but he was already a good very underrated corner and so i don't think there's going to be this huge step back like it was just this total aberration of a season with him and he and jc horn give them an identity too on defense which i appreciate you're on morgat at safety too like they the three of those guys are tough like they're not the biggest guys but they're they're flying around it gives them an identity the the one thing i we haven't mentioned with the panthers which now i've been a little low on them like like they didn't feel like an eight win team last year you know i think they they probably were more like a six-man team but they might have the best vibes of the entire division like canalis there is something to the greater than the sum of their parts and that this team build with dan more it does feel like that building and everyone is on the same page and like the the almost radical positivity of canalis as like the pete carroll successor there is something to that that might that might be enough in this division to make a difference over a team like the Bucs and the Falcons, less so the Saints, but have questions or just trying to figure out who they are.

1:20:37Canales definitely is Pete's spiritual to catch her for sure. Yeah, Todd Bowles is number one hot seat draft pick this season, right? Is there anyone who sees hotter right now? Aaron Glenn. Oh, Glenn, yeah. There are. I'm not being silly. There's probably not the Titans yet. I don't know. There are a few other options. But he's up there. Todd Bowles is up there. top two or three Zach Taylor maybe yeah that's a sneaky one um Stefanski I agree with you he just looks so tired every time I just he just needed a uh year off that was I would contend that the Saints also feel like they have they have the like we like our young quarterback vibes which is a very powerful thing that when the team has that you know like Chicago Denver you know just all the there's an impact there um i feel like i know too much about mickey loomis their gm over the years to feel like the vibes are ever like he was fighting it seemed like him and alvin camara were going through like a fight through the public this you know there's always some drama but you know what i like that they brought him back first of all i yes he's not as he's not who he was but i do think the state's offensive line was a big part of that and also just like yes finish good you know finish that the right way i like that i would love it too which is why you know some of these players like vita vea we don't need to it doesn't need to be like the nba where you're paying way on past performance but i think you should get a little bit of a bonus for being that dude for your team for a while uh okay this is the hardest division to rank in the nfl probably the nfc north is up there with me for me that's a tough one too i've been battling with that one but uh i'm gonna i'm gonna shock you with my rankings you might have picked up on it because we've had kind of gentle disagreement about this i'm going saints wow taking the saints to win the division this vita bea thing swung it for me and i'll probably end up being nothing and they'll pay him to keep him i don't care i have talked myself into the saints re-watching them i enjoyed watching tyler shuck i'm optimistic about jordan tyson i think the defense can be average um i I think Kellen Moore is a good coach, good play caller.

1:22:49The vibes there are really good. I'm going Saints, Bucs, Panthers, Falcons. I do flip the top two, and I have the Bucs and Saints ahead of Panthers third, Falcons fourth. You make me want to do it, though, and just go Saints first. Now, when I'm watching, because I went to school in New Orleans. I love a lot. When the Saints are bad, I almost root against them more. I want them to be especially bad because they are disappointing me. but when they're good, I love it. I want them to be happy. And there's going to be a part of me now thinking as they like have this miracle 10, 11 win season, Shucks playing great.

1:23:25I'm going to be like, I should have just picked them so I could enjoy this fully like Mina's doing right now. Only one quarterback in this division has come on the MinaCom show featuring Lenny, Tyler Shuck. Is that true? It doesn't seem right. I guess you don't have a lot of players. Well, I don't do interviews. Yeah, you don't do a lot of players. I did like a little interview series. Actually, it was on YouTube. Did the big dumper. um yeah julio yeah but i had a few i did i had buda baker it was great i had levante david uh but yeah tyler shuck i don't think i told him that i was a shock boy to his face should i make sure were you back then yeah you were you were i was talking to him yeah people go back and revisit my draft preview but i liked him i i was you know like let's see like i wasn't all in i wasn't thinking he's gonna be top 10 quarterback or anything but i liked him and revisiting it, I liked him a lot.

1:24:16I felt like watching an NFL quarterback. I think he has a really high ceiling. He also could have like a Jameis Winston type career, which would be fun to watch, but I don't know how totally effective. This isn't spicy in terms of believing in the Bucs, but I disagree in terms of that it was a hard division for me. I guess I still am holding on to my priors. I still believe in a world where the Bucs are one of the 10 best teams in the league because I believe in the roster construction and I believe in the lines. So it's probably not their most likely outcome. But I do think they have a real chance to be a difference maker, a contender.

1:24:50I believe in that. The defense I had as a top 10 defense. That's why it's hard for me. This was the hardest number one pick. Every other division, I'm like, I think this is going to win. This is going to win. This is the most riskiest one for me. So we'll see. NFC North, I still have not made my mind. That's a tough one. That's a really good one. You're just doing it because Saints Twitter, you're going to be the queen of Saints Twitter for the year. I love all of these fan bases so much. They are great. The best NFL fan. If I was doing NFL fan base power rankings, easily, easily in the top 10, all four of these.

1:25:21Easily the best division too, which is what I was getting at the beginning where it's a little messy, but because of like the rivalries, because of the fan bases. I love rewatching these games. I love it so much. All right. That's it for the NFC South. Go check out Greg's podcast, NFL Daily. I haven't been on in a while. No big deal. it's fine i'm around yeah i felt like i burned you know my mina kimes guest appearance in the offseason with daniel jeremiah where we talked up keante scott so uh yeah i can't wait to have you back on soon now it's a promise um i'm seeing dj on saturday i'm going to chargers camp synergy doing the nfl network for i love that i saw you know you're you're going to i don't know i don't know if they're gonna give me seattle with ian rapaport too i mean I know they haven't given me with the polos that you guys wear I don't think I need to wear them anymore so maybe they fit I got a lot of them next week we're back like I said final power rankings on Monday with Scott Van Pelt who's delightful and then we move on to the north or the AFC South sorry AFC South Brett Coleman's gonna come on and do that one so check this out wherever you get your pods we're on YouTube as well You can follow me on Instagram, Instagram.com slash at me at times.

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