Stairway to Evans: Reacting to the Second Wave of Free Agency News

13:32Mina Kimes:I like that. it's an interesting thing though when you keep the head coach because Aaron Glennon don't want to tank right uh whereas Mike Fleur I have to think when he signed the deal the Cardinals they're like guys we know the score we're gonna be bad we're not gonna make an aggressive push for a quarterback so uh Cardinals fan get ready to learn arch manning buddy but Aaron doesn't want to lose I think the question is okay well can it look competent enough with Geno and some of the additions they made on defense so that he keeps his job even if they don't win a lot of games it feels like directionally things have improved um and i don't know honestly like like so the the bet here if you're gonna is that gino was in the worst situation possible in las vegas check actually factually true yeah and then it brought out his worst tendencies check factually true and i think i feel comfortable saying that the somebody who you know has taken many l's on on gino and the seahawks moving on from him uh the jet situation is worse than or probably better than the it's worse than the Seahawks but it's better than the Raiders right yeah just the line alone yeah just the line alone it is a at minimum a competent offensive line that has young talented players that has the potential to get better you have a very good back who can also catch passes Brees Hall you have a legit wide receiver one I think they need another receiver um Frank Reich I am a little dubious of Frank Reich in the year 2026 based on the last time we saw him in the NFL, but the offense where you're, it's, you know, lembers now spread things out, throw the ball quickly, middle of the field.

15:07Mina Kimes:It could work Ben. And it actually might be, if, if Gino's arm strength continues to decline, it's kind of what it looked like. It could be a better fit for who he is now, provided he stops throwing into double coverage.

15:21Ben Solak:That's the provided right is Gino is not the sort of quarterback who ages gracefully because Gino's aggressive right Gino Gino shooting and you know and and you know one of the admirable things about Gino during his time with Seattle was Gino would walk out and have those you know multi-pick first halves right and then he would walk out in the second half and guess what he's still fired and we're gonna throw our way back into this game and there's a lot of quarterbacks who are protective enough of their sack numbers and their interception numbers that they don't participate in their bad games that way right they turtle so that was admirable with Gino when he had the arm to cash the checks and like that first game against the Patriots this year where they won it was like hey like yeah that's what this looks like like he was shooting then very quickly the office started to fall apart and Gino does not good at mitigating that both personally our arm strength and velocity and then also in the context of the larger team well the Jets are going to be trailing games and the Jets are going to have you know Garrett Wilson's not healthy and your best targets are Tyler Johnson and Mason Taylor and you know it's important that right Gino is willing to play a field position game and a check down game and a Brees Hall game if there's going to be a winning effort there in New York.

16:21Ben Solak:So he's got to learn how to play within his veteran self a little bit better. But Gino into all these other signings, right? Like Joseph Asai, Kingsley Anibare, David Onyemata, Demario Davis, you know, they traded for Mika Fitzpatrick. The Jets are very clearly trying to build out a more competent defense than they had last year. They're trusting in the line. I mean, they tagged Brees Hall, right? Like they refused to trade him. And then they also tagged him. Like this team is not intending on going three and 14 again. And And rightfully so. That doesn't help. Oh, you secure the first overall pick.

16:50Ben Solak:Yeah, but you need to have your guys in the building experience some wins. You need to have actual culture and belief and velocity in the correct direction under Mugi and under Glenn. And so the Jets are trying to be more so the team that has the ninth overall pick or the twelfth overall pick and then uses their future capital to trade up for the quarterback as opposed to racing for the bottom spot.

17:08Mina Kimes:Dude, this is such an old defense. I mean, they did add some... I'm just looking at the rosters you were talking. They did add capable players, and I get it. Like Minka, I mean, like Demario Davis returning. Everybody's coming back to the Jets. That's a reunion with Aaron Glenn. Osai is a little bit younger, but like, holy smokes, there's a lot of guys in their 30s on this defense. But they're about to throw in a young pass rusher, who that pass rusher is.

17:34Ben Solak:Well, so I was curious about this. Will McDonald's in the building. Kings getting bar a one-year deal. Joseph Osai, three-year deal. How much does that diminish your zero?

17:43Mina Kimes:That means nothing to me.

17:44Ben Solak:All right, copy. I, I am, I am a little bit sunny styles at two curious.

17:50Mina Kimes:If I'm being honest, absolutely not. And I'm a little bit there. You can't do that. You could do it. Joseph. Oh, sigh. You're really having that affect your drag plans. Kingsley and I bar a timeout. Take a timeout. I like styles, but I haven't decided yet. I'm going to obviously get dig into all this ahead of the draft, whether I want the jets to take Reese Bailey or main,

18:14Ben Solak:but they got i like i was prepping this probably four hours ago and i was like i'm gonna test balloons sunny styles at two and get you by mina exactly i would go be a monster have you seen

18:24Mina Kimes:these linebacker deals we'll get to some of them um actually uh should we get to that now no let's stay let's stay in new york let's do the uh the giants wanda robinson got more than uh no he got about the same as dobs it looks like wanda robinson four years 78 million dollars for the the Tennessee Giants slash Jets. Let's talk about the Titans as a whole, actually. Because they did a lot.

18:52Ben Solak:Four players from New York. It's Wendell Robinson, Daniel Ballinger, it's Austin Schlottman, it's Cordell Flott. And I respect and appreciate, A, my guy's connected to their guys. He knows them. These are good culture dudes. But you have to ask yourself, when you are buying the Brian Dable culture, are you really barking up the right tree?

19:14Mina Kimes:Uh, he definitely knows them. Okay. So I have mixed feelings about all of these players. I, I saw a post that was like Wanda Robinson, they've got their wide receiver one. And I spat out my water because he's five foot eight. We're not doing that, but he's a good player. So I don't want to, and also it's not a crazy amount of money. I just think like, you know, we got to position this correctly this should similar to what we're saying about um the jets this does not take them out of the carnell tate market for me like please for the love of god do not make wando robinson your wide receiver one for cam ward uh but he was very productive in new york after um like neighbors went out and his targets here started going up he played outside he's uh you know wins at all three levels as you saw his average of target go up and whatnot like How do you feel about this deal?

20:11Mina Kimes:And of the deals that we just get, all the players that they signed, I know we're joking about the Giants and the Jets, but are there any that you really liked? Yeah.

20:19Ben Solak:So I think it is important to have a player when you're going to be an RPO-heavy team to have a player who, A, can be an immediate separate off the line of scrimmage, and then, B, who can take a shallow depth of target throw, these throws out on your line of scrimmage, and make explosive plays out of them, right? Like when Rasheed Rice hit for the Chiefs, when he first went, oh my gosh, look at the yak on this guy. he wasn't you know getting like yak on 15 yard in breakers he was getting them all these screens but you still need a player who's capable of becoming that good of a runner after the catch securing that player for brian dable's offense which will be rpo heavy because that's how he is that works for cam ward was important 19 million dollars per year is a lot to spend on that specific role right i think if you look at robinson's box score production last year he had over a thousand yards he had 92 receptions wow looks great you go into the advanced metrics he had negative 5.3 receptions over expectation.

21:07Ben Solak:So he had fewer catches than expectation relative to the difficultness of his targets. He had 12 yak under expectation. So yes, he had 419 total yards after the catch, but he actually had less than expected relative to the opportunities that he got. Wandale is good at these manufactured touches, but he's not a player who's creating like above expectation on his manufactured touches. When we adjust for the role that he gets, he's kind of like league average in that role. It's just Dable knows that he can fill it. So you're kind of paying out the wazoo for familiarity to me, Cordell flat. It's a very similar thing where I think flat is a fine corner too.

21:38Ben Solak:You're paying$15 million because you know,

21:41Mina Kimes:and I thought he would get it. He got more than, I mean, Jamal Dean is older, but like he's a better player. I did.

21:49Ben Solak:I did like a five players that are going to make a lot more money than you think guy leaving Indy video. And my last player in the list was Cordell flat. And I was just like, Hey, everybody I'm talking to just telling me this guy's about to get paid. I don't know what to tell you. Like, he's just like, I mean, Eric Stokes got 10 million quarter flat at 15 million. Like if teams know that you can fill a corner role, they will just pay for the certainty of it, I suppose.

22:08Mina Kimes:We keep you and I were joking about how many people keep saying Titans pick for Jeremiah Love. Hey, it's pretty cool. When your biggest needs are receiver and edge.

22:22Ben Solak:Gotta go edge in my opinion.

22:23Mina Kimes:Edge is the one I'm like, oh my God. Cause the one signing I did like, I think John Frank, John Franklin Myers is a really good player. and it's funny too because he was like the one that got away for sala like they did that bizarre trade from the jets to the broncos and then he was awesome yeah now people point to that and say okay cool but he played on the broncos defensive line he gets playing next to jeffrey simmons now throw another like a legit edge into that mix and suddenly you got a pretty nice defensive line there right so like if you were to put in like a bane that's that is power that to me is the guy tremendous against the run like I would be very excited about that and I know with the young quarterback you want to support them and whatnot but like it's just not how I would approach it

23:09Ben Solak:next-gen stats have the stat in the last two seasons combined Franklin Myers and Simmons are both top four in terms of pressure rate from the defensive tackle position right and and we talked about this a lot in the lead up to the Super Bowl in the context of how could the Patriots possibly win this game don't want to Christian Barmore one of the ways to just beat superior offenses is to just blow up the interior right if there's just never a healthy pocket if there's always interior push if you cannot run the ball between the tackles you just slice away so much of the playbook you can kind of drag that team down to your level and so if you're looking at how does this titans team you know take a step forward in the win column you're one to your two okay dable cam ward address receiver whatever but franklin myers and simmons are capable of just ruining games against below average office alignment it's that caliber of defensive tackle room we're like emphatically it's them or the seahawks in terms of like them seahawks or pages i should say in terms of the best defense tackle room in the league.

23:59Mina Kimes:It's also Robert Sala. When you think about the defensive structure that he wants to play with, and then actually Bane, isn't the best fit for that.

24:10Ben Solak:So Sala's always liked to have at least one hoss at edge. And then he'll have like his big, big, you know, speed guys, 245 pounds for a step, but he does typically like to have one guy who can really actually go pound for pound against the tackle, which to me is Bane.

24:24Mina Kimes:I would, I just want to, plant my flag. I wouldn't be angry at any of the top three edges here. They're all fine. I like them all. I know I'm cowardly right now. I'm going to rank them at some point, I promise. They're all so different and they all have pluses and minuses. Reese, I feel like, would be weird

24:40Ben Solak:because they have no hybrid role. I know.

24:41Mina Kimes:Reese is the, do you have a plan?

24:44Ben Solak:That'd be like a full trade. Do you have a

24:46Mina Kimes:plan? Like if you told me, you know, someone from the Mike McDonald tree was their defensive coach, I'd be like, great, let's do this. But all right. Anyways, that's, we're getting ahead to draft season. Uh, let's, let's do a sweep. I feel like we're defense. Uh, let's back it up here to yesterday's news and talk about some of the receiver signings. Mike Evans. We didn't get to that. That broke after Mike Evans three year. I like to think that the Cardinals pull submarining happened after they saw the Rams trade for the entire two secondary. And then the Niners signed Mike Evans. And then they were just like, you know what?

25:19Mina Kimes:Let's, let's just hide for a little bit. Yeah. We're going to take a breather. The arms race that is the NFC West is absolutely absurd. I love it. Absolutely ridiculous. Three years up to$60 million up to is doing a lot of work there. It's only 16 guaranteed, which first of all, good deal.

25:39Ben Solak:Reporting has been like three years, 43 million, which means like 70 millions in incentives and presumably like per game bonuses. Cause he obviously he's got the hamstring at the shoulder last year. This is the fact that it's such a good deal for the Niners makes you turn to Tampa Bay and be like,

25:52Mina Kimes:What happened? Or makes you just think Mike Evans wanted to play in San Francisco. Brock Purdy enthusiasts, that David Lombardi guy, he's probably put out some videos about how Mike Evans... It's a weird inside joke that nobody will understand. Okay. But actually, okay, jokes aside, I get it, right? Because this is part of the reason why they signed Iyuk. they the prototypical x now it is valuable when you have a quarterback who is willing to throw the ball deep willing to throw the ball outside the numbers willing to throw the ball up first let's put that out there right contested catch opportunities uh iuk is obviously i don't know where iuk is but he is not going to be as a seven four-nighters next year so this was like truly the best option for them especially given their timeline and how competitive they should be um some of his metrics last year are very concerning the espn receiver numbers do not like his openness and all that but he was injured for so much of the season i'm willing to believe that he can if not return to form at least give the niners a level of production red zone outside

27:01Ben Solak:numbers that'll make this worth their time yeah and we talked about like does gino's game age gracefully mike evans is the sort of guy who can age well because mike can just be a highly valuable boxy out sort of a player and on a 49ers team he does not need to be a high volume player right they want to get high volume of targets to christian mcafree high volume of targets to george kittle they're very weird team to talk about right because oh you know big wide receiver contract you know you got to be able to use in this man that's right no the 49ers are not a team that's like willing to check it down or willing to use the tight end they are designed they want to throw the ball to those two positions so you can provide value as mike evans in short-garded situations by being the juan jennings box you out on third and five thing like first and juan was like a meme over the course of his time there with the niners because he would get two targets a game they both be on third down just win a slant be physical like evans is unbelievable at that and then obviously you have the red zone juice as well with his ability above the rim and so he can provide value not at high volume but then also if you're able to get evans bounce back the hamstring is better after a whole year off he's so much better of a rat runner and an intermediate separator than he's ever given credit for right like last two seasons if you look at his numbers on deep in-breaking concepts he's third in terms of yards per route is behind Jamison Williams and Terrell McMillan right he's a huge target who can get into his breaks like think about all those throws that Brock sailed against the Panthers and then think about how hard it's to sail Mike Evans right he's 6 '5 with a radius up to here like he gives you still good presence in like the classic Shanahan routes as well it feels a little bit like Derrick Henry

28:26Mina Kimes:joining the Ravens I strongly agree you know what I mean where it's like 100 % everything in in football industry tells you to bet against the player in their thirties, the position, whatever, but then they join the right situation and you know how good this player is and how smart they are. And like, and then you just think about how the coach is going to use him. And it, it just makes a lot of sense.

28:50Ben Solak:I think he's going to have 1200 yards and 10 touchdowns. I really, really, truly do. Like I, I think, and like, I think Pearsall works well for them as like an alternative because he's so twitchy. But I also,

29:00Mina Kimes:yeah,

29:00Ben Solak:Yeah, but I also still think that Evans is going to beat him in terms of air yards per target. I think Brock's, like you said, going to love throwing the football to him. This is my favorite signing of day one. I acknowledge the injury risk, but I put the blinders of March on and I say injuries aren't real, and I'm very excited. All right.

29:16Mina Kimes:Rashid Shahid was the other receiver signing that happened after we taped. The Seahawks were kind of quiet. A lot of their guys were leaving. And then they made a bit of a splash. Rashid Shahid, three years, 51 million. guarantees basically a two-year deal um so it this is like it makes feelings about that number because it does seem like a lot given the production or lack thereof in seattle but there were also reports i was hearing at the combine that like 20s for shejahid or whatnot so anyway think about the timeline where cooper cups probably gonna come off the books after next year yes jacques is going to make more money than god but in a year this is going to look like a it already is a middle-class receiver contract.

30:01Mina Kimes:To me, the bet here, Ben, there's two things. One, they can get more out of him next year. He was more productive in New Orleans. Darnold struggled in the second half of the regular season. He can be more productive for them. So that, I think, is a good bet. There was nothing about his separation was there. The speed was there. But also, the other thing, I think, is this belief that he impacts the game in other ways. Special teams being the very obvious one. I mean, we never talk about special teams because nobody cares. He was unbelievable for Seattle, right? Like, you know, multiple return touchdowns.

30:41Mina Kimes:He's been great at it over the course of his career as a returner. And then the other thing, and I think I mentioned this to you, I'm not sure, that I think no one talks about is I really believe his presence on the field helped the Seahawks run game in the second half of the season. Here's a number for you. Weeks 1-10, so before the Shaheed trade, when the Seahawks ran the ball out of 11 personnel, three receivers on the field, it's not what they measured in, but still, you know, a decent amount. 31st in success rate, 31st in EPA per play, negative 0.16. Disgusting. After the trade, they jumped to 11th in success rate and 7th in EPA per play.

31:19Mina Kimes:And this is when three receivers were on the field, so Shaheed was on the field. Undoubtedly, in my mind, he created some space on the ground for Kenneth Walker III. So I do think there are ways in which he affected the game that don't show up in the box score. And I have to think Seattle recognized that as well.

31:36Ben Solak:Yeah. They're like one of the things that a defense does when they get on the field is when they're facing a team that has like one great speed threat is like the entire secondary and linebackers communicate, okay, where did speed lined up, right? The speed at three, the speed at one speed backside. Like you're going to change your call relative to where we're speed standing and she heat his speed, right? When he's on the field, you're like, you have to be so cognizant of jsn where's 11 whatever but he also forces you to play certain coverages and certain structures and think about defense a certain way because you just cannot be in a world where there's no safety help over that corner who's on shaheed ask the rams on third and five in that first drive the nfc championship game when they were like man we're driving on the slants we're driving on the digs you know stop the quick pass out the first down and they just put 50 yards on shaheed right i think it was uh might have been darius williams i can't recall the corner but it was no safety help one-on-one it's like dude he's he's gone like and he's not Regular gone.

32:23Ben Solak:He's super gone. Because we're talking about, you know, like second, third. Like it's like Kevante Turpin, Jamison Williams, and him. In terms of like the acceleration, the different gears, it's crazy. And so that, one of the things I like in free agency is when you can provide value on your current number of touches. And then you can also provide value on more touches. Like that to me is a good signing. Like I don't need to carve out touches away from other players to get juice out of you. like she's going to give you juice on two touches a game offensively right like one run one one catch you already know you've got value on that and then the hope is like you said they can expand his role and the expectation is that they will with a full off season to think about it and he's going to be in the program and so to me no it it's a good signing i sit and look at shaheed for 17 million kenneth walker for 14 million and then safety kobe bryant for 13 million and if i ask myself like truly honestly if i had to do one of those three deals and only one which one would i have done.

33:17Ben Solak:It probably would have been Kobe Bryant over Shahid for me, but I don't hate the choice at all.

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35:30Mina Kimes:We talked about Jalen Phillips yesterday. You guys can go check that out. We'll get to Devin Lloyd soon in a second. But I want to talk about, as of this moment, Trey Hendrickson has not been signed. Maybe by the time you listen to this, he has been in which go check out my Instagram, Instagram.com slash Mina kind of show. This show's Instagram because I'm doing some takes in response to that.

35:48Ben Solak:I like how you moved places in your house, by the way, as well, to show like contextually that it was a different take. Same clothes, different locations.

35:55Mina Kimes:The news kept breaking as I was like walking around doing chores after we were done taping and I was carrying around my little mini mic in my pocket. So I would just drop the phone.

36:03Ben Solak:See, I have the opposite problem where I'm always going to be in my office, and so I have to go change clothes. I have to sneak upstairs, the babies are asleep, go find a different t-shirt, put it on, and then record a different video. Just to show chronologically this is a new event.

36:15Mina Kimes:I kept the same clothes on the entire time. Okay, so we got three notable pass rusher deals. Boye Mafe to the Cincinnati Bengals. Odafe Owe to the Commanders. Quiddy Pay. let's start with Moffay to continue on the Seahawks theme because player I'd know well kind of like what the Bengals are doing not gonna lie kind of like this little defense they're putting together you know there's a lot of pressure on this unit obviously because of the importance of bringing that defense to average even though they actually I talked about this on a show statistically were an average defense in the second half of the season but I think a lot of that improvement came on the back end the corners in particular dag sale dj turner dj turner they added another by the way brian cook i don't know if you saw that the chief safety he signed

37:09Ben Solak:with them love that competence he signed two hours later than bro then kobe brian did brian was three years 40 million brian cook was three years 40.25 million i love free agency it's such

37:20Mina Kimes:a good bit uh the larry need is pass rush though and it remains a need and with pick nine one would hope that they would address it but mafe is nice nice player three or sixty million dollars 20 apy um so he's that's that's not expensive in my opinion and he was good in seattle you know he it was kind of an analytic starling like pass rush win which is the espn metric loves him it's always he was like eighth this year he's always very high but his usage started to decline and last year you saw another dip as they just continued adding depth and you know he became part of rotation. So for Cincinnati, the bet is that he can be more of a complete player, stay on the field more and complete, I think is the thing I would use to describe him.

38:04Mina Kimes:He is exceptional against the run. Yeah.

38:06Ben Solak:That was my thing is I was like, oh, well, you know, he's probably not good enough against the run for them to be a primary guy. And you look at the numbers, you're like, oh no, like he's two sticks and he plays. Yeah.

38:14Mina Kimes:He's really good against the run. I think, um, he is a continue, like he's a pass rusher. I could see taking another leap, uh, you know, came in, I think with some development to go in terms of his pass rush plan, but I, I, it's super athletic works really hard. Great plays with a great motor and listen to me. If you're able to put like a, I'm gonna put Reuben Bain Jr. on every team, but let's say Reuben Bain Jr. is, is there for them at pig 10. Wouldn't it be nice to put him opposite boy mafia i'm just saying so i i do like reuben bain jr the romeo

38:51Ben Solak:dobbs of the nfl draft just fits on every team going to every team for me he is no i i would

38:55Mina Kimes:just like or honestly if sunny styles is there good lord that'd be a dream for them so uh but i do like this signing how did you feel about it and how did you feel about it in the context of away getting 25 and phillips getting 30 we're gonna talk about yeah second so i agree with the

39:11Ben Solak:umbrella takeaway on mafe a player that should be capable of taking more snaps he was fourth in that rotation behind d-law behind new osu behind derrick holly we're talking about the true edge for the seahawks should be able to uh play the field for all three downs should be able to increase the the total snap count and then his pressure numbers are great his sack numbers were terrible right like 11 pressure rate less than 1 sack rate that sort of thing that you expect to regress positively where if that pressure rate stays sticky you have like a nine sack season in 2023 and he was a full-time player we should be able to return to like you know a decent 2 sack rate That's more so what you expect for that caliber of player.

39:44Ben Solak:I do think 20 million is a lot, man. I mean, he's 28. That's the thing. He came to the league as a very old rookie, right? Because he was like a transfer and he was in Minnesota for a while. So he's making 20 million per year. Gregory Rousseau and George Karloftis both signed for 20 million per year. They were 24 when they got those deals, those extensions with their own teams, right? The Bills and the Chiefs. And obviously open market is a little bit different than the internal extension when you don't hit the open market. but you know clearing josh sweat clearing john granard these are guys who've had like double digit sack seasons being three down players for their teams and we know it we're positive you can write it in stone mafe is theory like we think he's going to be able to get there so to me getting 20 million per for boy mafe is an enormous win for mafe and for representation you're obviously like you know you're getting it from the bangles which means that you don't have a lot of guarantees and you're not gonna have guarantees past your two and whatever and so some of that is landing spot but i do think like 20 for mafay is a lot oh wait 25 million oh he played 50 of the snaps for the chargers he was edge three for the chargers and he got the nick bonito deal like that is fat man i don't know i think the edges got overbid oh wait let's talk about him since he

40:47Mina Kimes:so the commanders paid him the commanders had a ton of money and obviously a glaring need at pass rush um i think i was so distracted by them paying a guy under the age of 30 and just being happy

40:59Ben Solak:about that right and not not a adam peters fit or dan quinn fit right a new dude for like not

41:06Mina Kimes:for just bucking the trend guys yeah um he's an interest i agree about the money it's an interesting one because he's another one that advanced metrics really always liked in baltimore um but i don't think the production ever quite lived up to the potential so then they trade him mid-season to the Chargers. He gets to play with Mack and Tuley, and sometimes they were on the field, all three of them together, and he was incredibly productive in a half a season, right, under Jesse Minter. So I think this is sort of a bet on that continuing and the feeling that maybe like, you know, with a scheme change and some aging, because he was, if I remember correctly, very raw coming into the NFL, right?

41:50Mina Kimes:Wasn't he? He was like an athletic. Yep.

41:52Ben Solak:He was a Penn State testing crazy guy. He had started playing football. I want to say his sophomore year of high school, if memory serves. He came over from, I want to say Nigeria. He lived with LeVar Arrington, if I'm remembering his story correctly.

42:07Mina Kimes:Yeah. So he had five sacks his sophomore year and then zero sacks his junior year. Despite not recording a sack in his final season, he was known for his athletic podcast.

42:16Ben Solak:No, that wasn't him. That was some other Penn state guy who lived with lavar is ai lying to me is that what i'm reading oh no you were giving me

42:23Mina Kimes:the the yeah oh oh wait no always what i it is what i remember which he had the no sex

42:29Ben Solak:in college in pennsylvania yes yes that's the guy yeah yes it was the very like oh they're really

42:34Mina Kimes:gonna do this um but in some ways so you can look at that kind of thing two ways you can be like okay cool so that he's just not like a finisher or you can look at it as a oh he started raw and maybe he'll get better and i don't know we'll see my thing is just you're paying him 25 million per

42:51Ben Solak:year he has to play all three downs and he out of 141 edges last year was 130th and rushed stop win rate right like this is not a player who is an impactful run defender at this stage and duronta jones who's a new dc there in washington he comes from minnesota they have like you know andrew van gingkel was like 124th and runs up win rate like they have this outside linebacker mold that is a player that they largely try to protect from being like an in the trenches, hold a gap, run defending player. Great. Van Ginkle's like the goat of coverage drops and breaking up screens. And he provides so much utility and ancillary value outside of the sack and the pass rush.

43:26Ben Solak:Always not that. And the other player who's like a, still a really good second contract player with a low run stop win rate is Nick Benito. It was like 140th. Same thing where it's like the Broncos just don't want him involved in the running game at all. Benito like leads the league and get off 13 sacks, 14 sacks. that he's the pinnacle of that speed rusher mold. O-A, you know, you're thinking and you're hoping that he can get there off what he did with the Chargers and then another year. And so there's a lot of paying for certainty in the edge rusher market right now on guys who are like a year away and an improvement away from actual certainty.

43:56Ben Solak:And that's a little bit the reality of free agency, but I really feel like Jalen Phillips got$30 million per year and that dramatically affected the market, right? Because the commanders were rumored to be a Phillips team.

44:06Mina Kimes:here's what i think about all those players all three edges that we've just discussed get all sorry back away from microphone here's what i think about all three edges getting 20 25 30 i think it's because of two things also not a lot of good options because you and i were not out here being like they should have signed hendrickson apparently wants jalen phillips money and it's

44:30Ben Solak:being reported whatever and if i if i if jim phillips got 30 million dollars and i had a 17 and a half sack season recently, I also would want Gina Phillips money. Yeah.

44:40Mina Kimes:But after, like Quiddy Pay got three years, $48 million. Would you rather have Quiddy Pay at three years, $48 million or boy him up? You know what I mean? He's just from the radio. So I just, I think that's, and then I also think, Ben, it's a big drop off in the draft after that for a top tier of edge rushers. There's a reason I keep giving everyone Reuben Bain Jr. It's because after Reuben Bain Jr., there's a big cliff.

45:03Ben Solak:I like the tier two edges. You got to watch some Gabe jackets out of Illinois. Little Jay Sean Barham out of Michigan. Some good players.

45:10Mina Kimes:I think that these teams who are picking outside the top 10 are not expecting to get edge pass rush production and out of rookies. I really do. So I do think that also tends to boost. This is why I love for agency because it tells you things about the draft. It also tells you like how teams feel, right? Well, okay. I mentioned pay. So let's talk about the Raiders for a second because they made a bunch of moves on defense. They really, the defense, it's funny because on offense, it's just Linderbaum who, to be fair, is making more than anyone else on the defense, certainly, or the offense. But that's it.

45:46Mina Kimes:They didn't do anything else. Defense, however, let me read you. Quidipe comes in at 16 per year. At linebacker, they remade their linebacker room completely and just imported the Georgia 2022 defense?

46:06Ben Solak:You do wonder how Quay and Nekobe are going to fit next to one another. If only there was a way there was an evidence.

46:12Mina Kimes:Okay, so Quay Walker and Nekobe Dean. By the way, so Quay 13.5 per year, Nekobe 12. Interesting. That was surprising to me. Yeah, that was surprising to me. I thought Nekobe would make more. All the linebacker deals are basically the same, by the way. They're all in that like 10 to... Lloyd made the most...

46:28Ben Solak:You said you thought Nekobe would make more than Quay?

46:31Mina Kimes:Kind of? I thought Kwe would make remarkably more than to Kobe.

46:36Ben Solak:Really? To me, they're closer than I expected them to be.

46:38Mina Kimes:Okay, I just see what we talked about. And then they traded for Taron Johnson, who, for those who didn't watch the Bills, really did start to climb last year. I know he's reputationally very good. So it looks different.

46:56Mina Kimes:I'll say this. Outside of Johnson, oh, and they brought back Eric Stokes. it is interesting to me. They had so much money to spend. Clearly there was a priority on youth across the board.

47:07Ben Solak:Yep.

47:08Mina Kimes:Which I like. This is a team that said we are, we know we're not going to be great next year, but we've got the young quarterback. We're going to over, you know, put way too much money into one position because it's the best possible player. And he's really young and really good and really important. And then we're going to sign a lot of young, potentially high upside players on defense. Now, whether I think those signings will move the needle, I am not a huge pay person. Quiddy pay. Walker and Dean, I think are both interesting, flawed players is how I would put it. I think you talk about the complimentary aspect of them.

47:45Mina Kimes:So N 'Kobe is very good pass rusher. Very good blitzer. I think he's good against the run, but when coupled with a backer who can be a little bit more of the point guard or the quarterback rather of a defense. I don't know if Walker is that. So I guess I'm not sure. I think they're both just okay in coverage. So I don't know. It feels like two backers who are good complementary pieces, but I'm not sure whether or not they complement each other enough to overcome some of the flaws.

48:23Ben Solak:Yeah, I think your theory is that kind of N 'Kobe's the brain and Kway's the brawn, right? I think that you'd like for Quay to be more of the run and chase player and more of the coverage player because of the length and because of the speed. Like you brought up clear priority on explosiveness here. You know, Quay was an elite jumper. He's got good speed. Quidi Pei was a really good tester. So I think you want N 'Kobi who, N 'Kobi like, you know, for all reporting and intensive purposes is a guy who can get them lined up and get the calls out. And he's always been kind of, you know, a good general on the field.

48:49Ben Solak:That allows Quay to kind of play a little bit more fast, a little bit more instinctually. and then Quay's size hopefully protects N 'Kobe a little bit in terms of his range of influence because N 'Kobe who's like an extremely likable player who I've always loved just as an Eagles fan and then in my Eagles coverage always had to be like listen like great guy love him awesome there's a limited scope in what he can achieve on the field just because he's not going to get to the same places and fill the same areas that bigger linebackers are going to right the size is a little bit limiting there so I do think that you have right you said two incomplete players and it's on Rob Leonard who's the new DC there he's been with the Raiders for a few years he He was with Mike McDonald in Baltimore for a year.

49:23Ben Solak:He's kind of been all around the league. It's on him to figure out structurally what works for kind of these two weirder linebacker bodies and incomplete types. I do like both gambles. Like you're gambling on N 'Kobe as he just is so much better than his dimensions would indicate he's an exception to the rule. And then Quay, we saw Quay with that first year of Halfley with Anthony Campanile on staff. We saw Quay just light it up. And then Campanile left for Jacksonville and he kind of immediately fell back down to earth a little bit. So you've seen both players be impactful three down players against the run and against pass at times.

49:55Ben Solak:Can you, you know, kind of fan those flickers into real flames? That's on your new DC.

50:01Mina Kimes:I question, I will say whether spending, it's basically a lot of middle class defensive contracts. But I do question whether or not it would have been worth it for them to pursue a right tackle or receiver with that money so that they're not.

50:19Ben Solak:Jalen Naylor? I love Jalen Naylor. Jalen Naylor is like every film, guys. You know, ooh, this is a cool wide receiver three. Ooh, outside of Minnesota, a few more targets. Ooh.

50:29Mina Kimes:Like a Braden Smith or something. I don't know. I just.

50:32Ben Solak:Yeah.

50:33Mina Kimes:I don't know. It just seems like I, it was like when they did Linderbond, I was like, oh, okay, we're going to do whatever it takes to make sure Mendoza.

50:40Ben Solak:Rasheed Walker is still up, right? And obviously, Rasheed has been a left side player. They still have money.

50:45Mina Kimes:So maybe by the time you're listening to this, this will be a moot. And I would love that. I would. yeah maybe they think Walker can play I don't know like they're you're right there's let's look at there's I mentioned there wasn't a lot of receivers there's not a lot of tackle see there's

50:57Ben Solak:yeah Rashid's pretty much only guys left Elton Jenkins just signed with the Browns uh by the way that happened two minutes ago I don't think they needed the guard help but whatever uh Browns are up to something we'll figure out what it is later uh the thing that kills me about the Quidipe deal is that it's three years 48 million which is exactly the deal exactly that Dayo Dangbo got when he left Indianapolis last year for the Bears and then got one sack in eight games and then got injured to interfere again. And Quidipe, man, I'm telling you, there is a shot here that he gets one sack in eight games because it's just like the light bulb has not really come on for him so far as what you'd expect as a pass rusher for his explosiveness.

51:34Ben Solak:And so the fact that the deals are directly on the nose of one another, delightful. It tickles me so.

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52:19Mina Kimes:Control the daily operations of your business and transform your maintenance program.

52:23Ben Solak:Go to maintainx.com slash sports. That's maintain and the letter X dot com slash sports.

52:32Mina Kimes:Spring is here, and there's a whole new way to chai at Starbucks that's made perfect for you. choose your sweetness dial it up or keep things light add a touch of pistachio a hint of strawberry or vanilla or make it a spring classic with lavender because this season there's endless ways to chai at starbucks let's talk about the backs now we're nearing oh there's one other we could do some corners uh but let's talk about the right so i mentioned the etn deal because this broke right after you and I stopped recording. Let me get the money up. ETN. Four years, 52.

53:12Ben Solak:And it's super backloaded because of the frickin' saints.

53:15Mina Kimes:Right, yeah. Okay. ETN was not my favorite of the over$10 million a year backs in free agency. I said that when we started. I thought, you know, I think in Jacksonville, There's been some flashy moments, and there's glimpses of how good he can be as a pass catcher and whatnot, but I just found him to be pretty inconsistent. Some of that had to do with the blocking he got in Jacksonville, and I don't think it's demonstrably better in New Orleans. Although they did sign David Edwards, which I did like a lot.

53:50Ben Solak:I'm fired up.

53:51Mina Kimes:Fired up. But I mentioned this, too, in the free agency preview, but ETN on rushing yards over expected carry was below Bree Stoutle, Well, Javante, Dobbins, it wasn't great in Jacksonville. I do question what this means for Alvin Kamara as well. It just feels a little bit duplicative, but it's hard for me. It's not so much money that it's hard for me to have strong feelings against this, Ben, especially when they did sign the guard as well, which was a position I really hoped they would address.

54:27Ben Solak:Yeah, I think Edwards excites me, And I do think that ETN in a world in which you expected either to definitely move on from Camara because they did the insanely peculiar cap machinations. I'm not even going to try to explain here because I barely understand it. Such that they save cap space on Camara and also made him like eminently more tradable slash retirable. So in a world in which you were going to be post Camara, walking into the draft with just Devin Neal and Audrick Estime, I think would have been like highly dangerous. I think right preferable would have been the Rico Dalville deal the Tyler Algier deal and then have the ability to go potentially Jeremiah Love at the top of the draft I would have preferred that over ETN but still you needed something and whatever Travis ETN to me is a average back you know I'm not going to get a super offended by his play you're obviously paying him more top of the market than you'd like to be paying but I don't know the investment in the running game I think had to happen and there were much worse ways it could have happened the David Edwards signing to me is again, one of my favorites from day one, because I just think he's such a strong player.

55:26Mina Kimes:Do the Chiefs and the Saints spending the most at the running back position, does that just mean they both felt that Jeremiah Love was gone?

55:35Ben Solak:That's what everybody keeps intimating and assuming. And sure, I mean, like, if that's the case, are you operating with that much certainty on March 8th as to what's going to happen on April 23rd? like that to me feels you just don't see that much confidence in your reads seven weeks out of the

55:55Mina Kimes:draft I just look at the teams picking ahead of them and they all have such major needs that I just feel whatever he's running back it's a shame you are not invited on the zoom call where we discuss how to get more money from teams I had talked myself in to Jeremiah Love to Kansas City You could have talked me into New Orleans, too. You will not talk me.

56:19Ben Solak:You prefer Love at 9 or Kenneth Walker for 14 if you're the Chiefs. Which would you have picked?

56:27Mina Kimes:If you can promise me that one of those three edges is there, then I prefer Kenneth Walker.

56:32Ben Solak:All right. Saints at 8. Love or Travis Etienne 13 per?

56:38Mina Kimes:Same thing, probably. Same answer.

56:41Ben Solak:Your solution to everything is Ruben Bain. let's see if Ruben Bain's there all right what are we talking about okay uh

56:50Mina Kimes:let's wrap here and talk about some corners oh sorry Rico Dowdle also two years 12 and a half million um Steelers yeah yeah the Steelers with Rico and Jalen Waddle is a I will die for a half

57:04Ben Solak:yard running back room in a way that I'd love just that that those backs are not going down Oh man, it's gonna be a thrilling group.

57:11Mina Kimes:Rico also catches passes too. So I, you know, I like Rico Dattel. I think he's like a nice affordable back. Yeah. So I, you know, this is fine to me. That's obviously very affordable for them. Caleb Johnson, third round. Man, they're just out on him, huh?

57:31Ben Solak:Yeah. Very quickly figured out that wasn't the move.

57:34Mina Kimes:Yeah. Okay. Well, there's not really much to discuss there. I did love the Jamel Dean signing for them.

57:41Ben Solak:Yeah.

57:41Mina Kimes:I mean, three years, 37 million. I was shocked by how low that came in. And I guess it's a reflection of the injury history and his age, because we've talked about this. He was so good last season. He's good at playing man. He's good at playing zone. Now he gets to play. It's a nice, the Steelers have an interesting, there's multiple positions. They've got like young and old talent together. Right. Like for example, last year, like a defensive line. Now you've got Cam Hayward, but then you've got Derek Harmon as the young pup. You had TG Watt, but they've drafted well at edge. And then now at a corner, you've got Joey Porter Jr.

58:19Mina Kimes:and Jamal Dean. This could be a very good man team. I don't really know what Patrick Graham is going to run. I'm very excited and curious to see, though, because this has been a very predictable defense for the last few years. And I think Graham has the pieces to do some creative stuff with Ramsey playing, you know, the nickel or safety. So I'm optimistic about the Steelers defense. I will say that. And I do, I did like this a lot. Yeah.

58:45Ben Solak:I think that when you have as much faith in your defensive line as they do, again, both old and young, okay, if TJ Watt falls off, if Kim Hayward falls off. Yeah. But like Highsmith, Herbig, you know, Keanu Benton, Derek Hartman, they just got dudes on dudes on dudes. Then you feel like you should be able to play with longer, more aggressive corners who are able to take routes away with physicality in the first second and a half, two seconds of a down, discourage easy throws, and allow that pass rush to really have the impact it's supposed to have. And that's something that, as you rightfully say, kind of under Tomlin and Terrell Austin, just never really came to fruition in a way that you would expect for a team like a really dynamic pass rush the way the Steelers have.

59:18Ben Solak:Well, I think when you add a player like Dean, when you have a nickel like Ramsey, Ramsey will obviously spend a lot of time in the safety, and Brennan Echols will go there in the nickel. When you have these options, I think that you should expect the Steelers, like you say, under Graham, to be able to play some more man. man. Graham has always done things that work for his guys. And one of the admirable things about Patrick Graham is that he's creative and he doesn't just run one, one stuff. And so I think we're going to learn a lot in terms of August and preseason and training camp in terms of what the Steelers want to be on defense.

59:44Ben Solak:Cause they haven't had a defensive identity change in, in quite some time. I do think that Dean, yeah. Dean's 30. He's been banged up before. Like he started the season in a rotation with Benjamin Morrison, right? Like his reputation kind of was what it was. He obviously had a tremendous year this past year in a contract year to me. like this is where I expected him to come in money-wise like a lot of Taylor and Cordell Flott got more than I thought they would and so you would have hoped that would have yanked Dean up a little bit more but this is about the APY I thought we were gonna get all right well it is

1:00:10Mina Kimes:3 p.m on Tuesday this is hitting years on Wednesday morning so this might be moot but let me ask you one question to wrap here Trey Hendrickson Buffalo Bill what's the likelihood I mean yes I think that

1:00:27Ben Solak:that is a good fit because I don't want Hendrickson defending the run and I think that Leonard is going to run three four spacing and he's going to have wider edge rushers and guys who are stand up to you know two point stance guys and I think that Hendrickson can fill that role Hendrickson's weird because he looks like burly and big and so you're thinking oh base end but he just is not an impactful run defender and he's at his best getting that speed step being able to really friend that outside rush so I do think the bills are a decent fit I do not think the bills should

1:00:54Mina Kimes:be spending 30 million dollars question with him though like i well i i thought it's hard to because

1:01:02Ben Solak:because he didn't get that payday it's easy for me to say dude just take the one-year deal and

1:01:09Mina Kimes:chase championship right i mean he has gotten paid i don't want to minimize him what he's gotten over the course of his career but like you know there's a reason why he's not hilariously Cincinnati is the best fit and they actually have some money now that I like I like the Titans for

1:01:24Ben Solak:him a lot I feel like we talked about the the want to have a speed rusher who is immediately challenged let me see yeah Tennessee's still got room in the short term right and so to me you can do two-year deal front loaded get excuse me back loaded to get him to the APY that he cares about performance incentives per game incentives he's obviously super hurt this last year you're buying an edge rusher at 31 years old but to me like i still like the titans a lot for his skill set on a rental to give them the flexibility in the draft such that if their edge rusher isn't there then they can go and get carnell tate in a dress wide receiver position we need a producer to count reuben bay mentions like at least 7.5 and then i'm more comfortable with like a bailey opposite

1:02:04Mina Kimes:him you know it gets it changes the picture a little bit i'm just looking at i'm buying times to see who's got the cap space at the moment for that because I know everybody just wants to put him on contenders, but if he is prioritizing, okay, let me throw out another one for you. Why not the New England Patriots? A team that literally was just in the Super Bowl, desperately needs pass rush. Yeah, Draymond Jones as your inside-outside guy.

1:02:29Ben Solak:Trey Anderson spends all the time outside. Harold Landry.

1:02:33Mina Kimes:I'm there. You get money, and then you get to play on a team that was just in the Super Bowl.

1:02:37Ben Solak:I could see Brable just being fully out on the effort. Cause even when Henderson was like a 17 sack player, Henderson a hundred percent will loaf some downs because like the, the, he didn't went on the first step. Who's getting the run defense is real.

1:02:53Mina Kimes:That was, that was something on talks about. Um, all right. Well, just throwing it out there. That's all.

1:03:00Ben Solak:That's a good one. I hadn't thought about that one. I like that one.

1:03:03Mina Kimes:All right. So, uh, that's it for this week, Ben, where can folks find your work? right now.

1:03:08Ben Solak:ESPN.com, the big four letters. Yeah, I've got my free agency superlatives and my awards coming out. I gave the Falcons the award for the team most likely to move all their door handles and hinges to the opposite side for all the lefties. You know, the usual classic free agency analysis over there. And then, yeah, I'm on this show this week. This is some other show I'm on this week. I don't remember what it is.

1:03:27Mina Kimes:I'll be back next week with Kevin Clark to talk about whatever happens with Kyler Murray. That's going to happen. That has to happen by the 15th, I think,

1:03:35Ben Solak:was the date so well they're gonna cut him and then at that point yeah that's when um we i assume

1:03:41Mina Kimes:we'll get some resolution of our if not resolution at least some visibility on what's going to go on with daniel jones which by the way should be a contemporary team even if why um and trey hedrickson certainly we'll know by that if not god help us all uh and maybe we'll pick some free agency winners and losers i don't know we'll see maybe uh thank you as always to the folks at home on our productions who make this podcast kirsten sebecky owen sailor jack foster tucker tashin uh and i'll see you guys on the other side expect lots of reuben bain junior talk in the coming uh it was come come april i'm gonna start doing my war rooms where i do the mocks those are very fun we'll do a lot of draft contact of course ben will be back to do a lot of that uh and uh this friday my podcast with david duns jr viewer discretions my television podcast we will be wrapping up our love is blind coverage uh but we are also going to start recapping the

1:04:37Ben Solak:show paradise do you watch that show ben i can't like i watch zero shows i just can't get even i asked you i walked i walked in on bridgerton the other night i had questions i was extremely confused and mary was trying to explain it to me and there's a lot that goes on on bridgerton it's complex people have hair that's not the hair it's a it's too much you know he's the biggest

1:04:56Mina Kimes:Bridgerton fan at ESPN, like legitimately waits for it to drop, knows the date that it's coming out. Marcus Spears. It's Marcus Spears.

1:05:05Ben Solak:Yeah, you can call that one, baby. That's my guy.

1:05:07Mina Kimes:All right, bye guys.

1:05:20Ben Solak:Shot clocks, big shots, upsets, aces. TGL playoffs are here. First, Atlanta Drive starts their repeat run against Los Angeles Golf Club. Then, Rory's Boston Common Golf and Tiger's Jupiter Lynx face off in their playoff debuts. Who will advance? Keep up. It's playoffs. Tune in Tuesday, March 17th at 6.30 p.m. and 9 p.m. only on ESPN and the ESPN app.