The Final Sauce??? Trade Deadline Reaction and Recapping the Cardinals Win

30:26Ben Solak:That was my first reaction was like, whoa. They gave up a fourth and a six, which adds up to a low third type, if you do the math. That's a decent return, I thought, for Vegas, who now Brock Powers is going to get 100 targets a game conservatively after watching him back in action. For the Jags, they just needed a real NFL player, basically. That was my take. They just needed a guy who can reliably run routes, reliably catch passes, reliably work the middle of the field. All three things have been absent in this offense. So I get it. It makes sense. They're also in the mix to win the division, to make the playoffs.

31:10So like, it makes sense.

31:13Ben Solak:It's a, it's, I think it's a teeny bit rich personally, but for at this point in the season and it, but I understand it. Yeah. I think that I agree that it's rich. I think that you can say, Oh, well, we are going to play the same comp big game that Philadelphia is going to play. He's on expiring deal. And it's like, yeah, but are you going to not be active in free agency in the same way? I'm suspicious of that. Right. Myers, he's on a three or$33 million deal. So he was, he was making Darius Slayton money and making two, two money. Like there's no question that he's a better player than that, but how big of a contract are you expecting to get?

31:43He's turning 29 this week. I don't know. He's got to be really productive for this back half of the season, right? He really is only hanging his hat in 2024 right now. And the only way he's productive enough to get a big enough contract to return a big comp pick is if like you're missing Brian Thomas Jr. For a while, you're missing Travis Hunter for a while. And also he onboards very quickly with Trevor Lawrence. I will say Lawrence for ESPN charting 19 drops from the season leads all quarterbacks in football. Jacoby only has four drops in the last three years, right? Like so much of this Jaguars passing game is, okay, like, yes, Trevor could be better.

32:14Yes, this pass direction issue. Okay, this route was a little bit off. But can someone please like catch the ball on a third down? Let's catch the ball in a red zone. Like that, sometimes it is that simple. And Jacoby is a guy who really reliably catches in traffic. And so hopefully he can earn Trevor's faith quickly. But like, yeah, the Jaguars are potentially approaching week 10. Definitely no Hunter, maybe no Thomas, maybe no Dami Brown with a concussion. It was going to be the Parker Washington Austin Trammell game. So there's still no Brenton strange like that. Jacoby might get nine targets on Sunday because of how badly they need help in the passing game right now.

32:45Ben Solak:Let's take a quick break. Come back and pick some winners and wuss for the week. Treat your taste buds to an explosion of flavor with fruity rainbow five hour energy shots. It's a fruity candy flavor explosion, a zero sugar treat that's sweet tooth approved. You can take care of those candy cravings and get the caffeine boost you're looking for without the sugar. Stock up on Fruity Rainbow 5-Hour Energy Shots, available online at 5hourenergy.com or Amazon. Heat up your 4th of July at the Home Depot with our wide variety of grills under$300 and make every gathering one to remember. Give your outdoor space a glow-up, whatever your budget is, with savings on seasonal plants starting at$5.

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34:03Ben Solak:Remember, goats only trust goats because they're built different. And Messi only trusts Duracell. All right, we're back. I will go first. The Buffalo Bills are my winner after beating the Chiefs, Summit, and Sunday Night Football. Particularly, though, the Bills on defense, which was the story of the game. Chiefs came into this game looking like an absolute juggernaut on offense. I think going into the game, they were like second league wide in eight paper play, even with the spotting the first few weeks of the season. And the Bills shut them down, man. There's a lot to get into here. There's a little bit of styles make fights.

34:45Ben Solak:I think that kind of factors into this that we can talk about because I think the Chiefs are unable to take advantage of the Bills' weaknesses or were not able. But the Bills also made some adjustments in this game that I thought were worth discussing. Way more. So they played dime, three safeties on the field, 46 % of the time, just insane, coming into this, they averaged 14%. They played way more man or like man variance. I noticed some of them I was like, this is like kind of like cover six, but then on one side they're playing. Yeah, this is the slowest I've had to watch defensive film in a while.

35:23I was like, okay, wait, who and where? They were up to some stuff.

35:27Ben Solak:They took away, yeah, because when you watch the game, it's like they seem to get a lot of pressure. I think it was the most Mahomes has been pressured, but they only had two quick pressures the entire game. And Bozo was good, but this was a coverage game for me. This was about what they did in coverage. They took away Mahomes' easy buttons on offense, on quick game, which is the Chiefs menu of slants and screens and the quick outs and the hitches mahomes was five for 10 for 23 yards a quick game this game uh going back and watching all 10 of those reps ben i think cole bishop was involved in disrupting like six of them he was unbelievable in this this was the best game of cole bishop's career by a mile if cole bishop played one quarter and then left the stadium it would have been the best game of career i'm looking at my notes from going back and watching the quick game cole bishop man coverage coming across in in motion on xavier worthy cole bishop fourth down pass breakup core pole bishop stops travis kelsey cole bishop blows up a screen cold like it's crazy how much i wrote down his name and there they blew a coverage on the rashid rice 20 yard scene ball where bishop is communicating late and i think like bishop is wrong and also 12 it's like a total messy play like there was a miscommunication and i was like all right here we go again like you Bishop is always like kind of a little bit late to the uptake and like he makes mistakes in coverages and like the Chiefs are going to go right after 24 and then Bishop just unlocked and they did a very nice job.

36:54He brought up the dime packages in base, not in base, on early downs when they were in nickel or when they were in dime. Cam Lewis, who's their backup slot, Teron Johnson out of this game, was playing up at the line of scrimmage. He was playing like dime backer at times, like they were involving him in the run fit. When they got to pass downs, they would move Lewis to the defensive backfield to be like actual safety and put Bishop up on the line of scrimmage to allow him to push Travis Kelsey and be physical with Rashid Rice to chase Xavier Worthy. They simplified his job on passing downs and asked Lewis to be basically a safety player.

37:24And it worked wonderfully. I mean, a very nice coaching job. Yeah, Bishop has struggled some

37:30Ben Solak:against the run before this. And I think that's kind of the flip side of this, right? When you're playing this much dime and putting these safeties on the field, a team that was good at running the ball could ostensibly punish you for it. Yeah. Guess who's not great at running the football? The play of Gregory Rousseau in this game, which is not a stat sheet thing at all, but Gregory Rousseau just took Jawan Taylor and folded him into the backfield six different times. They played with such heavy, heavy ends in this game, in the run game against the Shotgun Rug with Bosa and with Rousseau, especially Rousseau being opposite the back and just having to say, okay, collapse everything, just break, just wreak havoc, and then our fast, undersized players will come in and fit behind him.

38:08Greg Rousseau, like, dirty work MVP of this game by a mile.

38:12Ben Solak:uh, Maxwell Harrison, their first round draft pick, the corner played and flashed much needed speed. You know, there's the one where he goes step for step with, with worthy. That's pretty eyeopening. Um, so I think where I come down on this is I'm, I'm really not trying to damn with fame praise because I, like I said, this was a styles make fights type game. and I came out of this thinking the Bills have the personnel to deal with Kansas City here's my question who can run on them because that so I'm like I'm still thinking like ah the run defense isn't fixed the good news Buffalo is all the good running teams are over in the NFC so they might not have to deal with a bad matchup instead okay it's supposed to be the Ravens but the ravens run game has been super hot and cold this year uh i'm kind of waiting because they finally have gotten healthy to see if that can improve but like who you're worried about now like who is who presents a stylistic challenge to this bill's defense with some of the fixes that they made on the back steelers right i would say that of the teams you expect me in the afc playoff make sure the steelers are just going to put spencer uh excuse me stephan anderson i want to say the sixth offensive lineman is forgive me darnell washington and pat frymuth on the field right Spencer thank you and they're they're gonna be like all right Cam Lewis fit it you know yeah sorry I just realized like oh right they're they're a guy it's Spencer Anderson wait right wasn't he on the so Alec Anderson was the Bills jumbo guy last year yeah I can't remember I there are all these right now we are living in a golden age of six jumbo offensive linemen who who's it is Spencer Anderson who's the Steelers guy and maybe yeah but it was Alec Anderson last year was the bills jumbo dude alec anderson right is he still on the bills no he's white i think he is but they like they use vandermark now as okay sorry yeah point here is that i think the steels of the team that's stylishly you worry about you still worry about the ravens if you catch them in the postseason obviously a lot can change that when they they played that week one game there was no andrews yet there was no ricard yet so that's gonna change the math a little bit but yeah the salient point uh that you said of the chiefs excuse me the bills have played a lot more man coverage against the chiefs in the colts yeah well so the colts are like an 11 personnel run team and they're a gun run team and so like there's a physicality aspect to michael pittman and to alec pearson to tyler warren from a you know you can really make us put bodies on the field we don't want to put on the field i don't think the colts like i think the bills are still gonna play the colts and nickel and dime it's just they might get deleted doing so but they're still gonna be in the personnel group because they want to be yeah the colts are the are they playing that that's the team as i think about this who's like who's going to punish them for playing this way the colts definitely the colts hypothetically the ravens yes the steelers but i think on the other side of the ball they can smush him i'm looking at their schedule right now they've got the steelers on november 30th by the way so that'll be a good test of it yeah right now and And then they've got the Eagles on December 28th, which is a great game.

41:19But I don't know, man.

41:22Ben Solak:I feel much better about the Bills defense today than I did going into this game. This Bills regular season defeat over the Chiefs. Stick with me, our Bills fans. I promise. This one really does feel different to me than the other ones in terms of how well they ran the football and how they committed to running the football. And then some of their new coverage options and some of their pass rush options against this version of the Chiefs. Like this win felt to me substantively in terms of how they authored it different than the other ones in a way that you know i think is is if you can stomach it buffalo fans worthy of some faith when we get to january football i wonder if you're the chiefs too and you watch this you think like i mean they won't trade for a back it drives me crazy they i mean like to me like you have a right tackle issue and when the chiefs lose games like juan taylor is just often a big culprit as to why but they've extended him they've worked with it like what are you gonna do you're gonna put more on the right side when Simmons gets back like I was just I think maybe um anyways all I know is one more spot in the game and they immediately had their most explosive run of the day I don't think it's just Taylor to me is is a liability it's a problem if I'm the Chiefs and I'm watching this back my number one thing is just Mahomes had a bad game like he just didn't play yeah he was clearly uncomfortable in the pocket he was looking for too many deep deep shots like his two longest time to throw his last two years have been the two games they played against the bills like he just has to be faster i also think like the bills defensive game plan maybe took them by surprise a little bit and i think it shot mcdorange is a lot of credit for yeah it's credit to the bills it's a real it's a real like i i well and that's i think a good segue to the game you're going to talk about because i felt the exact same way watching uh lions viking so who's your winner of the week yeah my winner is the is the vikings coaching staff i thought that kevin O 'Connell and Brian Flores just both out coached their counterparts on the other side of the sideline which that's that's Dan Campbell and Calvin Shepard and John Morton like that's not an easy easy beat uh we'll start when the Lions held the football 10 TFLs for this Vikings defense that is the most tackles for loss that a team has had against the Dan Campbell Lions in 80 regular and postseason games the Lions have played sixth worst success rate over that Campbell tenure as well they were consistently winning along the interior of the offensive line the Lions are weak at guard the vikings went out in the offseason got john allen got javon hargrave and those additions haven't necessarily you know bang for their buck over the first eight weeks but you have to build to beat your division and they really showed up in this game along with the incumbents jalen redmond uh and levi drake rodriguez all those defensive tackles had important games this one they were able to keep jameer gibbs in pass protection 15 pass protection reps nate tyson of yahoo was tweeting this out he gave up seven pressures gibbs did the most of a back since 2018 according to NGS.

44:04That was a big part of the game plan.

44:05Ben Solak:I, okay. So the Vikings defensive game plan was really eyeopening for me in this one, because before this, the Lions offense has had its way with this iteration of the Brian. Yeah. Jared Goff has destroyed them. He's been so good at finding their weaknesses in zone coverage. He's been decisive. They haven't been able to get pressure. Um, but I almost want to go back and watch floors as pressure brands from some of those early ones because he made some really interesting adjustments here you really highlighted it i mean it felt like he went into this game took a giant red marker and just threw it around jameer gibbs and then the interior of the detroit offensive line um you know it was i mean so their five-man pressures had a 60 pressure rate and three sacks um it wasn't just so it was a lot of cross dogs right which is where the linebackers uh were the blitzers or it was sometimes they would have the uh pace jr pardon me he would almost like he would like a line on one side and then loop back around to cross dog with uh wilson and they were just like not prepared for it at all the center you're what you're doing is you're putting the center in hell typically because he's got to make a horrible decision um but they would also pair it with they would have the edges show blitz and then drop into coverage so you'd have like panay sewell was like okay cool I guess I'll help the guard.

45:31Ben Solak:And the poor center is sitting there like, well, what am I supposed to do in this situation? So I don't know. It was just, I thought a brilliant pressure plan from Flores. And I almost came out of it, Ben, wondering why like other T, oh, I just got a holy crap text. Uh-oh, uh-oh. I also want - The Jets are trading Sauce Gardner to the Colts? No way. What, what, what, why, how? They just extended him. How much? that's that's multiple firsts right hold on are you are you sure is that real is that adam adorn shefter sauce gardener just tweeted new york it's been real and there's no trade return yet oh my goodness hey chris ballard yo like like uh a one a future one and something and then maybe like a young player back this is gonna be a big trade what's the okay what's his contract so yeah i love the cross dogs they were great christian mahogany

46:38dude okay so holy mackerel garner is signed actively through the 2030 season he is there's void years that take him through the 2032 season he signed 120.4 million dollar extension uh there

46:54Ben Solak:are let's see wow uh okay so let's look at this from indianapolis's standpoint coming off of I mean, cornerback Traveris Ward has not been healthy. It's obviously been a need for them. Kenny Moore, their slot is good. Jalen Jones, I thought their corners were really rough against Pittsburgh. So just sorry, I'm still trying to wrap my mind around this. I think it's going to be even more capital than I just said because of the team control you get on the guy. Like if this doesn't happen. Yeah. I don't know that either the, the competition is enormous or they, they did something with the money, the jets did in order, in order to make this work.

47:47I mean, the Colts must've, here we go.

47:48Ben Solak:Here we go. Two first round picks. Yeah, absolutely. Wow. Sauce is only 24 years old. All right. So, uh, firstly, so first round picks. Yeah. Hey, that's good for New York. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's obviously great for New York. They're probably not going to be super valuable first round picks, but still you're, you know, you're going to be able to reload the team with this Gardner, man, like Gardner, you know, Lou and Romo defense. I know the book and Gardner has always been, okay, the press coverage and the man coverage of stickiness and whatever. He is a much better and more active zone player than a lot of people give him credit for.

48:20He has tremendous hands. He's got great eyes. Like there is a, a world where he gets a wonderfully unlocked for the Colts, man, a resounding emphatic. Heck yeah, brother. I have been very critical for it.

48:33Ben Solak:They are going for it. I've been very critical of Chris Ballard's patience over his tenure as the Colts GM. I would say, go, go, go, do things, be more aggressive. They were historically teams that just extended their own players. They didn't make big free agent acquisitions. They didn't make big trades. To see the window open, Daniel Jones, 7-2, we figured out on offense, we're shipping future first for Sauce Gardner. It's such a wonderful hairpin turn for Ballard, who understands that we need to be aggressive. I am so proud and so pleased that the Indianapolis Colts did this, even if it's a little bit reckless.

49:02I love it.

49:03Ben Solak:um so i was just looking up the yes so traverius war went on the ir two weeks ago yeah his second concussion of the season and so there's legitimate concern um big glue man big lee said give me give me vets and they they have now uh oh my heavens really fascinating this gives them more coverage versatility obviously um i i gardener's been fine this year too i i mean i i i know people are always counting him for the run defense but he isn't yeah but i actually think he's been fine this he has not been even close to the problem on the colt's or the jets defense pardon me in my view of it um i have another trade if you want to hear it wait wait one more thought on the uh gardener thing.

49:53Ben Solak:I mean, the Colts offense is so good last week, nonwithstanding. I have to think they're hopeful that they can get teams, uh, you know, into drop back situations playing from behind. He can get hands on the football. It's not surprising to me that they wanted to augment the past defense in particular, watching this team. All right. Give me your trade. Uh, this involves you. Uh, the Seattle Seahawks have acquired in a reunion, a guard, a guard wide receiver. She's a heat from the saints. wow really how much how much i haven't seen yet palisaro is the one who had it and so this is like it really broke 30 seconds ago so maybe we'll get more information it's interesting because how often do you want to be an 11 personnel team how many more snaps are you taking away from cooper cup and are you taking away from tory horton yeah at a wonderful game there against against the commanders um so as we wait for that information my as i'm still processing Gardner here to the Colts.

50:48One thing I will say is like the Colts linebackers have been as big of an issue in coverage as the corner room. And so you say, okay, you trade two first, you put Sauce Gardner out there. They're just going to keep throwing it over the middle of the field. But Lou Anarumo is the sort of defensive coordinator who's going to be able to say, I have Sauce Gardner. This allows me to reappropriate resources. I think you're going to see Sauce spend a lot of time on islands, a lot of time on the backside. There's going to be an onboarding process. It's a very complex defense, but it's going to be a lot of times where he gets islanded such that you're able to get six over four and five over three on the strong side of concepts and protect those linebackers in stone coverage so big big big test and ask for luna rumo moving forward but he's a guy who's very well suited to handle it um back to the seahawks side of it for a second so here

51:31Ben Solak:okay so i was just trying to pull i'm sure sam donald leads the league in ad areas yeah so champ arnold bombs away downfield ben i almost wonder okay so there's an interesting dynamic here right which is seattle is a very very good passing team and not a good running team right now commander stoke count sorry um greg olson got a little bit of heat on on twitter for saying this it's just very obviously true to me yes i wonder but so what they've been doing is they've been you know coming out in big personnel groupings and then teams play base and then you just rip them through the air to your point about like how many receivers can you get on the field I do wonder if there's going to be a bit of a philosophical change to, like you said, what if we put three receivers in the field, make defenses play us really deep to help the run game?

52:19Ben Solak:I wonder if that they're eyeing a little bit of a shift, which to some degree I understand. However, they're so good at ripping up base defense that I'm like, I don't, I kind of do we care that they can't run the football very efficiently if the passing game out of those heavy looks is so like explosive. That's my question for you. So I guess like I, it hurts my heart to say this, but no, just because I love the running game and you got to be good running the football. And I'm, I'm the like, Hey, like chiefs, why don't we learn how to run the football guy? I do think that it is reasonable to expect the running game to be better in the second half of the season than the first half of the season, just as they continue to dial in on which running backs they like to use, how, which ones are, you know, which works best on which concepts, so on and so forth.

53:07I think that the sheet, if I have to, you know, read between the lines and the Shahid deal to me, I think it is more about protecting JSN and, and, and protecting themselves against JSN just getting like absolutely Calvin Johnson game plans and Randy Moss game plans. And just like, if you walk into a post-season event where JSN is just seeing so much double and so much press and so much cloud that you are being forced to funnel targets to Cooper Cup and to Tori Horton and AJ Barner. Oh man, all of a sudden the wind comes out of our passing game. We lose a playoff game and that's that. Well, if you have Rashid Shahid and they're always like, you know, they're buzzing a safety on top, like the Elijah Arroyo touchdown, the safety is so far shaded to JSN on the weak side of the field because the commanders are just like listen like we just want to play man coverage everywhere else we want to play man on horn and play man on cup and he wasn't in that game obviously but man on barner man on a row we want to play man we can't do it to 11 but let's just get safety up let's get bracket help over there shaheed to me feels like the punisher to that defensive adjustment that's my read on on why you make this acquisition really interested to see the price because i like shaheed for a lot of teams here and if he was cheap i'm gonna be

54:10Ben Solak:pissed so you feel like the 11 personnel doesn't take up that much is what i'm hearing no and i think i think horton had an extremely good game and i think tory horton has been a great young player and it's been exciting i also just don't think you can take a two touchdown tory horton game against the commanders and be like see we're fine at wide receiver two like i understand the temptation for this um but uh i i think shaheed is like a final form rounded out the end result of what torah horton might become over time horton's going to be a returner for them he's still going to be like a 12 13 personnel shot player for them i think this is i think we'll see obviously a little bit more 11 i don't think it'll be it'll dramatically change the way they operate on offense yeah yeah they have such a like philosophy i think yeah to kind of go back to like the base stuff this is i posted you know what do you think they're averaging in yards per attempt against base defense maybe maybe you saw my post 43 like i i had i it's 12.6 yards per attempt which is insane yeah there was uh uh i had it in my week eight column i can't remember what the exact stat was but basically like sam just going back to the minnesota days it's okay if you get him in nickel you get him in drop back he's what he's always been it's just he's played for two coaches that manufacture base defense and Sam against base is just like, I they're slow and I get those ball fast and accurately.

55:33And we're just going to rip, rip, rip. And, and there's no solution to that short of being the Seahawks defense, which can play nickel to everything because of Kyle Hamilton or because of Nick, I'm on warrior, excuse me, Devon with a spoon or the Ravens defense, you can play nickel at everything because of Kyle Hamilton. You just can't not match personnel. Like it's so hard to live in nickel against those teams. Even when the Seahawks don't run it that well, they can run it well enough and then jsn is so good that they can make it work um god

56:06Ben Solak:the sauce gardener trade i still need time to like process the shaheed trade i thought might be a possibility given the history of um the play caller with him and whatnot and also the nature of the si i did not see this sauce gardener cut trade coming like this is crazy i i'm gonna need a second to like process this sauce's extension was legitimately uh july 17th 2025 it was less than six months ago and so like this is like as fast of a turnaround on a mega extension into a trade and you have to imagine for the jets it's as simple as with two first round picks and with a with our own first round pick that we expect to be a top five pick if we want the number one overall pick in the 2026 or 2027 draft for whatever quarterback it's kind of get ugly at the end of the year uh okay it's already a thomas hours third round pick out of florida state my guy all right locked up jamor chase against the bangles i believe i did like him coming out of the draft uh okay so our wuss for the week uh we'll stay ears peeled for any future trades before we finish this up this episode is brought to you by google chrome you think you know a browser but gemini and chrome that's new it can help you with practically anything on the web like Restoring a Vintage Motorcycle from a 50-Page Restoration Block or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks.

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58:36Ben Solak:You had the Packers and I had the Commanders. The Commanders, we really don't need to discuss it. obviously the defense we talked about is either the worst or the second worst in the nfl and it doesn't feel reparable um is reparable word repairable repairable um reparable reparable uh but the bigger thing of course is losing jane daniels to a pretty gruesome elbow injury um we don't have to get into the should jay daniels seem playing i think the only thing i feel like comfortable saying right now is two things not comfortable but he should not play the season There's zero reason for him to come back on the football field this season for this team.

59:15Ben Solak:And as far as the durability style of play aspect, which we both have brought up going back to when he was a prospect, they have to work with him this offseason. He got hurt outside the point. This is not a pass protection problem. Like when you see those numbers, like Jay Daniels has been contacted more than it. That's not about the commander's offensive line. It's a Jay Daniels stat. And it's something, and I'm not like blaming him for his own injury. I'm just saying if they want to protect the franchise moving forward, they have to figure out a way to get him less exposed in the open field.

59:55Yeah. I mean, Daniels was on pace to have the fourth highest scramble rate in NFL history this year behind two Michael Vick seasons and a Justin field season. And that he's always going to be a high scramble rate player. He should. is something we talked about a lot coming out of college and out of LSU, but watching him relative to watching other scrambling quarterbacks at LSU, you could tell, oh, this guy does not like protecting his body. And if you are Jacoby percent, Anthony Richardson sized, okay. If you are Jane Daniel size in terms of density, that is those hits are going to accumulate fast.

1:00:26You know, he dislocated his elbow, planting his head, so on his hand, so on and so forth. Yes, but you are introducing tons of opportunity for such such injuries because you are getting tackled so much you're out there running around so much okay dan quinchin will play them so on and so forth yes but this was going to be a reality if and when he got hurt you know the bruised ribs he's had the knee like this has just been accumulating at this point and as the offense this year has tried to be a little bit more drop back oriented they're running fewer rbo's they're running fewer screens they're trying to be a little bit more of a grown-up passing game daniels has regressed in his sack greatness regressed in his his his scramble rate because that's how he's coded and so i agree that

1:01:01Ben Solak:they got to address this that actually kind of gets me to the other kind of side take i have which is this is not about the offensive line i actually think it's about weapons too to some degree right like yes that to me is like something that they have to emphasize going forward if you want to have jayden be more of you know a comfortable pocket passer you want that quick he he's excellently throws the ball quickly by the way um they're gonna have to augment that passing group because not having Terry Lauren, that's also like part of the reason why Jane Daniels takes off and scrambles. A lot of these instances is guys aren't open that they're just not in this offense.

1:01:35Ben Solak:So that to me is like, if you're the commanders and you're thinking about holistically, like how do we protect your quarterback going forward? That is something that I would look to emphasize this off season. Um, okay, let's talk about the Packers. Let's wrap with you because I think this is an interesting conversation. Your wolf, mine was commanders your wolf is the packers offense in particular yeah there's like a short term you know small scale wolf which is you had seven drives six of them got past the panthers 25 and you only scored 13 points in the last 10 years only 11 other games have had a team get past the 25 that often and score 13 or fewer points they had the uh savihan williams fumble they had the missed kick after they moved back because of a sack they obviously had the third and three tfl into fourth and eight whirly gig nonsense, almost interception play.

1:02:23Like there was a lot that just short term went wrong from an execution perspective. And Jordan Love has done a better job eliminating interceptions from his game relative to his 2023 season. And when he was a little bit younger, but the Packers still under Love feel like a team that just has a sort of success rate and has sort of down and down consistency. That's just a little bit less than you want. And that was even when the running game was like good in 2024. Now the running game is a little bit worse because of the offensive line health and performance. And so there's the small scale, like the Panthers dragged you into the mud and made you play a very short and fast game that was all about situational execution.

1:02:57And you didn't execute situationally until you lose as a 14 point favorite. And then there's the larger scale zoom out macroscopic wolf, which is you go and you look at Jordan Love and Matt LaFleur in games in which they are heavily favored in games, which they are clearly the better offense. And they're just an extremely cautious team. Jordan Love's air yards per attempt. I went and looked at it in his career relative to spread. If he was favored by more than a touchdown, underdog by more than a touchdown, or a small favorite less than a touchdown, small underdog less than a touchdown. He's at his most aggressive as a 14-point dog.

1:03:28He loses one air yard per attempt as a seven-point dog, loses one air yard per attempt as a small favorite, and loses another air yard per attempt as a big favorite. Against the Browns this year, he had 1.6 air yards per attempt. It's not his game. You would love to be a perfect execution team, but you got to let the Bronco buck a little bit. That's got to be the approach even when you're favored.

1:03:44Ben Solak:I have a specific beef with this Packers offense that it goes to this game and to the Browns. So everything you said is correct. And this game, I mean, Packers defense, run defense is bad. But honestly, the Panthers have like a really good rushing attack. And they're going to make a lot of run defenses look bad. So I'm not like panicking per se. The pass defense was fine. Bryce Young didn't do anything. So the red zone issues were massive, right? Because they just kept shooting themselves in the foot. There was like false starts. There was a fumble. whatever i'm watching this packers offense back and something that occurred to me in this game i was just like there's no intermediate passing game laps and threes i go back i go back to the browns game because i was like i feel like i had this feeling how many intermedi intermediates 10 to 20 yards right it's the sweet spot how many intermediate passes do you think jordan love had against cleveland zero right in my call this week so on the season oh is this something i did Okay.

1:04:43Ben Solak:It wasn't in the column, but I saw it when I was looking at the numbers. Yeah. On the season, Jordan love has the fourth lowest rate of intermediate passes in the NFL. And the other guys, there are hurts and fields who are always going to be at the extremes because of the way that those opposite. And then Aaron Rogers, because Aaron Rogers just digs and dunks and then throws an educational. And that's stupid. Right. And for some of the quarterback, look at these skill players. There's zero reason why there should be no intermediate passing game in this offense. uh one adenai mitchell is also heading to new york as part of the deal i kind of like that for the jets i make sense and i mitchell is kind of out of that rotation young player cool so yeah it's two first and then a young player i thought it'd be two first a pick and then a young player two first and young player uh so that updating live to the love point there are ways to make layups and threes tenable and it's when you have really good yak players underneath and and the packers man that they have as they have as a team 210 yak over expectation right on next year stats charting 109 of that comes from tucker craft all right next closest is josh jacobs and then after that is emmanuel wilson they're wide receivers in matthew golden and in sabian williams and indontavion wicks romeo dobs all with no jayden reed there are they are not good yak athletes so when you try to live layups in threes and you have a quarterback who i like love a lot but love is not like a one two three to the check down he's a one two three hitch maybe second hitch to the check down because he likes to let that downfield route develop you you need to be able to break some tackles underneath and they had one guy one guy who did it and he's out the rest of the season so you cannot be layups in threes anymore jayden reed is going to come back at some point correct like i i've been checking the latest but it's a foot and it was a list frank so like you you kind of have to hold your breath a little bit that's an injury to monitor, of course.

1:06:41Ben Solak:And Wicks is coming back too. That is, I think, soon. I think maybe this week. So they are getting some reinforcements back in the passing game. But I just think your point originally is the correct thing, which is, to me, a lot of this is about coaching. And I love Matt LeFleur. I think he's a great play caller. When you go against bad pass defenses, it shouldn't be

1:07:09Ben Solak:Dan put this well I thought because we were talking about NFL live a little bit and he was like I feel like they're always trying to get to the perfect play versus some of these and like you it's you know like sometimes you should just call the easy stuff for the quarterbacks against bad pass defenses um i to me the level of difficulty in the passing game it's either high level of difficulty schemed up or it's just dink and dunk yeah uh justice muscata of acme packing company have a stat i don't think i have it i can't remember the exact number i think it was 16 third or fourth downs the packers saw in this game you and and lafleur talking about playing for third down all the time exactly and lafleur you brought up the perfect play call lafleur brought off the Christian Watson interception and he was like, man, it's a bad play call.

1:08:00Like, why am I calling a shot play there? Like it's basically a two man route concept and playing soft dental game. Why am I doing that? And it's like, all right, that's a good point. LaFleur. I understand why you're saying that. Why did I make that play call on the drive previous love through Matthew golden, big post into double coverage and put the ball on his hands, like 55 yards down the field. They didn't catch it, but that's why you're calling that play is because that's your quarterback. You, I think, I think when love first came out in 2023 and they were calibrating, figuring out what they want it to be.

1:08:28They a little bit put the bridle on the Bronco and smoothed him down and settled him down and took a little bit of the offense out of his hands to help him normalize. But you got, you're a little bit right now got the Porsche in the garage, right? Where you're going to have to have a couple more three and outs in your life. And that's okay because sometimes you're going to have four play scoring drives. Like LaFleur is up on the podium saying, we had a nine play drive, a 10 play drive, a 10 play drive, a 12 play drive. We're moving the ball. Yes, but that's also not good because the whole defensive philosophy is on 10 play drives and on 12 play drives eventually you will make a mistake you will get to second and long and then i will beat you you have the weapons and the quarterback such that you should be able to score on five play drives and six play drives even against shell you should be able to do that because of your ability to push the football down the field quarterback with such a delightful live arm and so i hope that they are willing to open that intermediate passing game unlock the deep passing game a little more and ride the wave of variance it doesn't feel good as a coach but again that's the hand you've been dealt now especially especially because craft is hurt you don't have that yak threat any longer fourth and fifth for shaheed by the way fourth and fifth that isn't bad i'm okay

1:09:33Ben Solak:i'm it's about right it's about right i'm okay with that it's i i definitely see why the saints did it start there um definitely makes sense for them yeah i mean this is look it's the playoffs or it's it's the stretch the playoff teams are paying premiums

1:09:55yeah it's it's it's these are two very cool traits and i'm very excited about them if you had if you asked me before this pod ben the seahawks make it to the playoffs and they lose a disappointing game how do they lose it i would have said guard and they still have that problem if you ask me ben the colts lose a very disappointing playoff game how do they lose it i would have said linebacker room and that's still a problem so i let fun trades good values exciting times i still have questions about both of these teams and they remain my top questions

1:10:20Ben Solak:I just thought of something, which is like we've been talking about how good the Seahawks offense is against base defense and single high. That's that they've been ripping it up. Numbers drop off a bit, though, when they're facing. Too high looks. Wow, like a lot. They go from. OK, so here's here's an interesting split for you against single high, which, again, the Seahawks face a lot because they put big bodies on the field. they are six in EPA per play second in success rate against too high they drop to 19th and 12th so it's funny because I'm thinking about we've been thinking about the Seahawks like in the context of the existing offense and just sort of replacing Horton or Cup or whatever but I also feel like adding another receiver i think your point about jsn is a big part of it because it's like okay cool you want to shade jsn but i think this also allows them to win against different defensive looks where when teams are not sold out against the run if that makes sense yeah and we talk about shaheed a lot as the vertical guy because those are the the you know youtube mixtape plays he's also pretty good yard after the catch pretty good on the slant because of the quickness he's not just fast burner speed he's quick and then he runs after the catch and he's not too afraid of contact for a speed guy they're all afraid of contact but he's pretty good uh sam on the year has the lowest yak percentage of any quarterback in terms of the percentage of his yards a lot of that is a lot of that's how the offense works yeah but if i'm if i'm in the room and they're saying all right we're you know we're facing the bills right we're getting all this too high we're getting all the soft shell that i was worried about with the the panthers where's our yards after the catch coming from i do think that like it's not jsn's strength of his game tackle breaking cup obviously like will be tough but again that's not where he's at shaheed gives you a good underneath element if you're ever in like clear drop back oh shoot we're actually in a second half hole this time and we need someone to manufacture a big play for us underneath shaheed gives them an element that is yet unproven from their current receiver core bombs away the rams dude i'm thinking about the rams oh i thought you had another trade i was like the rams said i mean the seahawks rams game is like circled in red ink, potentially like two of the three best teams in football.

1:12:44Ben Solak:The Rams are not going to play single high against Seattle. Just a team. Right now, I'm telling you right now, Sean McVay, Chris Shula, they're not going to do it. They're not going to give Seattle. They're going to say, cool, run the ball, or we're going to put a shell on you. And to me, an acquisition like this is important against a team like that, right? where you're not going to beat them just purely with scheme, I think, on offense. So a lot to consider. Very exciting. Whew, that sauce Garner trade. Okay, I will be back later this week to preview Week 10 and react to any other trades coming down the pike.

1:13:21Ben Solak:Ben, are you doing any trade grades or anything on ESPN.com for people to look for? At 4 p.m. Eastern, trade winner and losers drops if and only if I'm able to successfully write the entire... We got to work through in real time our thoughts. I got all my sauce gardener. Rashid Shaheed notes already set up. Yeah, dude. Thank, thank goodness. We got an active deadline in the middle of the pod. That's always fun. Freaking go. All right, guys. I'll be back later this week. You can check out. Also, I have to do, I've been doing power rankings on Instagram at Mina Kimes show. Go follow. I have no freaking clue.

1:13:54Ben Solak:I might have to like crowdsource it. Who are the top five teams in the NFL? Seahawks. Yeah. Does this move the Colts? Oh, I might, dude. Sauce is like, it's not just how good sauce is. It's how bad Corner was for them. Yeah, it was a huge issue. All right. Okay, cool. Check it out. MinaKimes show, youtube.com slash MinaKimes. I'll be back later this week. Also on viewer discretion, we are recapping Married at First Night. All right. Talk to you guys later.

1:14:33Wah!