The Plot Pickens! Recapping Dallas’ Win, Plus Seahawks Broncos and More

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0:30Welcome back to the Monique Heim Show featuring Lenny, Monday Night Football Recap Edition. For the audio audience, you're missing out because Dominique's wearing yet another incredible jacket. Is this Ashley's work? Because your fashion has really been... Can I get some credit? You don't think I can pull it off? This is all me. I decided that I was going to get fly. I was tired of not being fly, so I got fly. I just know she's a very stylish person who likes to shop, so I assume that... are we so sexy just because she's a woman doesn't mean she likes to shop i know her and she likes literally 50 of our dms are about shopping so uh okay has nick been keeping you fly lately is that worth i don't nick has never per hey that's not true he's purchased some items okay we're gonna talk football uh as always we'll be talking about the monday night game i i think the way to talk about this game is through two lenses the actual game itself does not merit too much discussion um but the cowboys i want to talk about whether or not we think that they've actually got a chance to stay in this thing through the end of the season and then with the raiders i think kind of advancing to what's next is where i want to go uh and then we're going to talk about winners and wolves we've got some good ones broccos fans you've been clamoring for me to eat crow we're going to talk about the broccos we're going to talk about sam darnold what happened what was wrong and some other things as well but i i want to start dominique by posing a question for you earlier introducing something that is i i find to be absolutely hilarious so uh in this game the cowboys can't come out and much to everyone's surprise cd lamb and george pickens are not out there because we find out brian schottheimer has benched them for a series um because they broke rule i don't think it's actually been reported what happened uh so the cowboys doesn't you know the offense kind of looks nothing goes on the first series is not good and then they come out and then after the first quarter it's like just you know guns a blazing absolute buzzsaw on offense I want to ask you about so uh my friend Greg Rosenthal posted something about this is benching starters for a series the funniest possible punishment because all you're doing is showing the world how good they are and how much you need them like in is that an effective punishment?

2:49I mean, it's it's slightly effective, I guess. What made it even funnier to me was that it kind of with Keon Coleman having missed a meeting and got benched for the whole game, it like brings into light how there are different rules for different people. And some people are like, hey, you know what? We're going to sit you for a series. You really got to learn a lesson. Like, no. It's about the value that you provide to the offense and whether it's effective or not I think it's just like some of that stuff is kind of like you have to demonstrate to everybody that you mean business when nobody on that team really like it's grown man like we got to penalize you it's not a big deal you're going to show you're going to be fine but we have to do something to suggest that there is some sort of hierarchy here but I don't think it's effective punishment those guys won't do it again because they just won't not because they had to sit out for three plays the funny part is it really also just scares you how performance completely colors perception because if pickens hadn't had an amazing game we'll talk about him people would be like george pickens bad influence in the locker room was was cd lamb hanging out with him at the casinos but because they both went off that conversation is not going to happen uh it does bring me to one of my true like this is one of my roman empires one of my favorite nfl stories of all time which is the time let me take you back to 2016 nine years ago december 2016 carolina panthers quarterback cam newton held out of the opening series of their 40 to 7 loss to the seahawks so ron rivera benched him for a series uh incredible details so later it was revealed he didn't he was benched because he did not wear a tie in fact post game he wore the turtleneck he wore uh and he said while he was offered i'm reading the news stories.

4:39This is one of my favorite stories of all time. While he was offered a number of ties to wear quote, I can't wear a tie with this referring to his turtleneck accurate. One paragraph later, Derek Anderson started a quarterback and was intercepted on the first play. The best part about that is I did. I mean, I remember that whole story is that maybe somebody is hearing it. It is shocked and appreciates the interception on first play but the one thing that i hadn't considered i remembered that it was something to do with his like the way he dressed but what's funny to me now is cam newton saying i can't wear a tie with a turtleneck given how cam newton now dresses himself i feel like cam newton can wear anything with anything now like he could maybe that was the birth of it that was the birth of the new cam newton style was like you know what put a tie with a turtleneck uh it again And everybody made fun of it in part because of the result of the first series.

5:38And anyways, I just, that was one of the funniest moments, honestly, of the NFL history to me was the, I remember the interception so vividly and just actually laughing so hard when it happened. Okay. The actual game, sorry, everybody had to take you down memory lane. So George Pickens was incredible. The Cowboys offense is a little more interesting to me than the defense, even though the defense is like where they've added players both through the trade for quinn williams but also players coming back i i just feel like the raiders offensive line is so non-functional at this point i'm not sure how much to take away from that uh but we can talk about a second let's start with the offense i mean george pickens was just the the story of this game for me was dac looked sharp sharp pardon me uh they realized that the raiders only chance of blowing things up was Max Crosby.

6:30So they just started spamming play action. And then Pickens was unbelievable. I mean, it's a reminder that like, in any given day, George Pickens can be a top five receiver in football. That five is fair. Could be higher. What was your takeaway watching him? I mean, it was, according to Jerry Jones, he's never seen a performance better than that. Like maybe, I think in his hundred years of living, he might have, but that was pretty close to as good as it gets. Like that game in general, I think if you also factor in the touchdown that wasn't, when he had that one-handed Odell Beckham-esque grab in the corner of the end zone and also almost got his feet in.

7:11Like on top of that, it's just so impressive because he did everything, I think is what stands out. There are some receivers that you get them to ball and then they're yak monsters or someone's going to run past people or just move the chains and power through a tackle inside the red zone. He did all of those things in the course of this one game where he set out the first series. So I think you're right. He's one of those guys that's just a very special athlete. And it reminds you of how important the quarterback is to any receiver. Anytime anyone asks me through the course of my career who's the best receiver you go up against first, I say Randy Moss, and then tell me who the quarterback is, and that'll be the most difficult person to cover.

7:54Yeah, the dynamic is right now in Dallas offensively is similar to who the Bengals have been the last few years, right? You have receivers who can do anything, and then you have a quarterback. I mean, it's a slight difference in the dynamic given that the defense now shows some life. We'll get to the defense. You're right. Yes. But offensively, you know, it's like what do you do when you have two number ones? I think just one more thing on Pickett like he gets so much attention correctly for his contested catch ability, which is probably the best in the NFL, to be honest. And I really do feel like saying, yeah, I'm comfortable saying that and the body control and everything.

8:33But in this game, like it was also a reminder of just how unbelievable he is with the ball in his hands. I mean, it looked like video game stuff out there. Just the cuts he was making guys falling guys. I felt bad for Kelly. Some of these Raiders DBs have actually played okay this year, but it was just such an unfair mismatch. And the quarterback, too, was really good in this. I think it bears mentioning. Defensively, I mean, yeah. I guess the point I want to make is not like, I don't believe in the Cowboys defense. I just don't know how much we can learn from the Raiders offensive line. Chargers are close.

9:11I don't know who's worse, but it's between those two teams. it's completely non-functional. So yeah, of course the Cowboys, you know, shredded them up front, but again, I'll, I'll be interested in seeing, I think they have the Eagles next, right? Or no, they're playing. Okay. So we're going to learn a lot about this defense soon, but cause it did, it looked better and you had guys coming back over shown was back. There was one play where he like chased down like a little throw to the flat that I was, he looked fast, which was good. Um, revel who was the cornerback they drafted played and Williams was excellent.

9:43Quinn and Williams. So it looks better. I'm just kind of like, let's see. Let's see it. We're going to find out a lot about this team. I mean, they've obviously dug themselves a little bit of a hole, but they have three games. The next four games, I think, are against the best four records of teams last season. So they got the Chiefs, the Eagles, well, they first got the Eagles, then the Chiefs, then the Lions, then the Vikings. So they really can't forward to lose maybe one more game. But, yeah, it's going to be a good run. And this Eagles game is kind of their Super Bowl this weekend. Their season is going to live or die on whether they can knock off the Eagles, which they beat them before, their divisional opponent.

10:25So I think one of the Eagles' losses is to the Giants, which you know how there's some familiarity while the Eagles' defense have been crushing everybody else. I think the Cowboys might have a chance. Less people forget, Cowboys has played the Eagles pretty close week one. The big difference, Eagles defense, we're going to talk about later. That's probably the biggest. You know, both the Eagles and the Cowboys defenses are vastly improved. The difference is the Eagles already had a good defense. Cowboys defense was really bad. Yeah, that's going to be an interesting, but I am very excited to see this Cowboys offense against the Eagles defense again.

11:02And especially given what we know to be the Eagles defense's weakness, the third cornerback and potentially the ability of Dallas to attack that with three receivers I mean Pickens did a lot of his work outside which is the way you beat Las Vegas is you know working outside Stokes has been their better corner so they were able to go after Kelly you know I just realized something with Pickens by the way um they they probably can't afford him next year I mean he's gonna like blow like we talked about I talked about with Graziano earlier he thinks that they're going to franchise him um and that's how they're going to try to to keep him but yeah it's it's a tough situation to be able the way he's playing right now he's someone's going to pay him like or be willing to pay him like a number one so the plan i think is the franchise and to keep him in in house for at least one more season i think jsn is also up for his extension this off season if i remember correctly so we could see some pretty some pretty mammoth receiver contracts yeah i've seen people you know saying george pickett should want to stay in dallas play with dac prescott team believed in him i'm like cool this is a chance to make a bazillion dollars from dallas's perspective franchising makes sense but it also it you know we made the bangles comp it's hard not to look at the bangles now moving forward any time a team has to decide whether to pay two receivers right?

12:26No, that's, it's unfair because it's not like, the Bengals is one situation. And I think that their, that defense was bad before they had to pay, make a decision to pay both their receivers. So like it, it sucks, but that is just human nature is to react to that. And I mean, I think it's probably, it makes more sense to not overload in one position, but when you got something like that, it's hard to let that go. All right. So the Raiders side of this, I just kind of want to talk about the Raiders from a more bigger picture standpoint, because we all know this season is over. Early on, they were able, the defense made some plays.

13:05Crosby, of course, made some plays, and they were actually able to attack the Dallas Cowboys defense using play action with their tight ends. They were getting the linebackers on the field, and it was kind of working until it stopped because Dallas basically just kept throwing pressure at the play action because they knew Las Vegas wouldn't run the ball, and they were correct, and then everything just fell apart after that. The Raiders are in that horrible place where people have pointed out they didn't run the football at all in this one, and we can point to them and say, why don't you run the ball?

13:39Well, they don't run the ball because they're awful at running the ball. And then you have a quarterback then who's constantly dropping back behind a horrible offensive line. And oh, by the way, he's shown a propensity this season to make pressure even worse with his decision. So it's like this horrible compounding. Watching him, I was thinking, Dominique, and obviously we've talked about Gino and his struggles this year. It almost feels like he left a bad relationship for an even worse one. It's like, what if we took the 2024 Seahawks offense where they couldn't run the ball or pass to protect and then made it even worse and then had no receivers.

14:17And then the quarterback regressed. And that's kind of where you're left watching the Raiders offense. Yeah. I mean, I think I would even go even bigger picture for like the situation in Las Vegas. Like you're right. But like they, this was supposed to be the dawn of a new era. Like they made a decision committed to Pete Carroll. They made a decision and committed to Geno Smith. They made a decision and drafted Ashton Jensie high in the draft. And it looks this bad. It doesn't even feel like, oh, well, we got some pieces. We're moving in the right direction. We just have to address this, address that, and we make a run next year.

14:56It kind of feels like we're at the beginning of this process, and it feels like I don't know what type of hope or what direction we're going. It's just so much to do with that team going forward. But Max Crosby likes it there. Yeah, big takeaway. I am never going to accept drafting a running back at a top 10 again with a team that's not already stacked. I will hold out an exception for a team that is stacked. The Lions took Gibbs, what, 17, but they were already, the roster was already coming together. The offensive line was already good. I guess that's a rule of thumb. Don't you even beyond the top 10 first round.

15:37Hey, I don't want to see a running back with that chargers too, by the way. I don't want to see a running back in the first round unless the team already has an offensive line and look i mean they lost colton miller who was their best offensive lineman early in the season jackson powers johnson there was some weirdness early on and then he also got injured so you basically your two best players are out so it's not all entirely the fault of the team but the rest of the offensive line was not good and that was honestly predictable um and then that takes us to next year right because uh so gino uh basically next year, they can't save that much money from cutting him.

16:16They would say, this is from Bill Barnwell's excellent column on all the quarterback's decisions. They would only save$8 million in cash and cap if they were to cut him. You know, they're going to draft a quarterback, I assume, but they might just hold onto him as a backup with that little savings and then take their, you know, less and take their losses next year. But I'm almost like, I hate the idea of them bringing in a restaurant quarterback because the system is so bad right now. The receivers are so bad. The offensive line is so bad. They traded away Jacoby Myers. So, like, yeah, they're in, like, a full rebuild, which is weird considering all the things that we just talked about in this situation.

17:07So, yeah, I know the opinions and we haven't. I assume you haven't, but I certainly haven't started looking at college quarterbacks. But the opinions on quarterbacks have started to like dip for the guys that were coming out this year. So possibly they get someone later if those guys slide, which doesn't like alleviate some of the pressure to rush somebody in as a starter. But I don't think anybody is going to have success back there, especially not a rookie. But Geno does, if he's interested in being that type of mentor figure, he seems like a good quarterback to be around and a good quarterback to learn from.

17:41So that's a positive thing. But nothing else about that situation seems enticing to me. If you're the Raiders, who are the players you feel good about on your roster? Obviously Bowers, Mayers, Decent. I mean, nice old though. Older. Nice Crosby. Crosby. The Stokes has played okay at corner. Chin's been okay, but it's just, yeah, the defense needs so many. Honestly, it's amazing that they've been decent given the lack of talent. And then offensively, the receiver room is just, I mean, Tucker, the fast guy. They have guys who can win downfield, but they're not like real route runners. You saw them get bullied sometimes, not coming back to the football.

18:29and whatnot, they really need a receiver. So, yeah. You can't protect it. You can't run the ball and protect. And that's like as boring as it is. My cousin and I joke about this all the time where it's like, just draft the lineman. You can never go wrong with like getting a tackle. Just go ahead and get a tackle and slot him down the guard if he thinks that tackle. But having a strong O-line, Like we even saw, I know we're not getting into any Shador stuff today, but like of those few plays, when Shador had a clean pocket, no one's saying they did the world beater, ripped the ball down the middle field, attacked him, like hit a big dig.

19:13Like if you can protect just about any quarterback, any quarterback that's drafted into the NFL, you can protect them, it's going to be all right. Totally. Membu, the right tackle who's been decent to above, He's been good at times for the Jets. He was there at seven. In retrospect, that should have been the pick. It seems like. So I guess that's my... Listen, this Raiders season, I've learned a lot. It obviously taken my lumps on Geno. Chip Kelly's another one where I think I've said this to you, but I'm no longer college coach, bad offensive line. I'm out. I'm not doing it. because he was awesome in college, but then it's like, oh, right, the Ohio State offensive line was like all NFL players.

20:05When you're dominating people at the line. Yeah, so we'll see. They're paying him a lot too, right? Like, sheesh. Tough situation in Las Vegas, but opportunity to start the rebuild and thinking about that now. Don't see them winning a lot of games between now and the rest of the year. offensive line play matters is my summary and quarterbacks been bad the receivers are bad the play calling's bad but the when you watch them it's just non non-functional offensive line so all right let's come back and talk about a team with a very good offensive line who's your winner of the week get summer going with a firework freeze five-hour energy shot you get that iconic freezer pop flavor but with zero sugar and a five-hour energy boost bursting with cherry lime and blue raspberry flavors, Firework Freeze 5-Hour Energy Shots bring a caffeine kick without the sugar.

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22:47They're in good position. A lot of directions you can go with this. What's your focus for the Denver Broncos as your winner? Honestly, what was shocking in the rewatch was that how effective their defense was, but not reliant on their pass rush. And so I think the points that you were making are good ones. So this feels like a big moment because they beat the Chiefs in a way that didn't feel fluky that felt like they controlled that game and they deserved to win and they seem to have kind of put the division in their pocket barring any like shocking uh miraculous turn of events so that's all great and it's really impressive and i think bo nicks like he did the the bo nicks thing that you want is like crush him on some big plays we're not going to ask you to pick him apart but in certain moments and that throw behind on the seventh route, like that's like, that's it.

23:43So like there's something about, it reminds me a little bit of, I guess, J.J. McCarthy, except in between the big moments, Bo Nix is fine. Like he's not going to kill you. Yeah, I mean. J.J. McCarthy in between the big moments, eh, very bad. So it's an interesting, and I think that has a lot to do with the coaching, honestly. Yeah. is what they've decided that Bo Nix is and he's fine doing it but I think to get back to my original point the thing that was shocking was like the Chiefs we know the history of Patrick Mahomes when he has bad games it's in large part most of the time it's because you can't protect him it was shocking to me to like see the result of this game and watch the game and not think too much about why what happened happened but like assume that they were just destroying him up front.

24:33And then watching it, like, no, that's not actually what happened. They played really impressive coverage, and there were some bad pass interference calls on my guy Riley Moss. They just didn't like seeing him in the wrong neighborhood. He's so divisive. Have you noticed that? He's really divisive. I think he's good. I think he's really good. I know lots of people think he's not, but I think he's really good. When I watch Riley Moss, I think they ask difficult things of him, and he does a really good job. But anyway, we don't have to have that. By saying he's divisive, are you saying you're on the other side of the Riley Moss?

25:06No, I think he is better than his numbers indicate and also has gotten some really difficult matchups. You know who else was good in this game? Who else has been slandered? The linebacker Sternad, who last year I kept saying, attack the linebackers, Denver, Denver. He's really improved this season. and Singleton was out, you know. I was surprised. I felt all their linebackers were actually really – were pretty good in coverage, which is – I mean, that's like the recipe for beating a lot of NFL teams now is to attack their linebackers. So I think like comparing them to Kansas City, which is, you know, they played – they just played them.

25:49I think there's two things that stuck out to me. One is the discrepancy at the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball. This is just simply a team with much better offensive line and defensive line play than the Chiefs. But also, and this really points to what you said about the defense and the way they played in coverage in particular, and their tactics against this Chiefs offense, they outcoached them, man. Like, I, like, Peyton and Spag, or probably Peyton and Vance Joseph versus Reed and Spaggs, I came out of this thinking, felt like both Peyton and Joseph were much better, their sides just looked much better prepared for what the Chiefs brought to the table.

26:40and that's crazy to say i mean that's not crazy it's just you know how long we've been like oh andy reed and and t spagnuolo the great edge i didn't feel like that watching this you nailed it and what jumped out to me is like i i know i've brought this up to you a bunch of times and i assume other people recognize this that one of the things that i love about spagnuolo is that he always feels like he saves a pressure for an important moment and then you see this big sack come in a blitz that he hadn't used all game that he knows will beat the coverage and he's not trying to win the game in the first quarter that happens what jumped out to me was vance joseph big down mcmillan coming off the edge got a sack of patrick mahomes i was like no that's supposed to be yeah that's a move uh totally and mccombs was like completely taken aback by it and but mcmillan also like i don't think we've talked about this but they drafted a db in the first round and and McMillan's kept him off the field.

27:36He's just been really good. You remember McMillan a couple seasons ago had like a million interceptions, it felt like. He was really good. And I still like him last year, and people were like, he stinks. Your point, though, about the blitz, that was like, wow, I totally felt that way. And also on the other side, the Broncos picked up everything, Spaggs said. He blitzed Bo Nix 10 times and only got pressure twice. price. Every McDuffie blitz. It felt like Harvey or Prentice not only were great in blitz production, but it just kind of felt like they saw it coming. I don't know. Like I, the chiefs are in a tough spot where they can't get a four man rush, but then the blitzes aren't hitting.

28:15Whereas on the flip side, the Broncos have an incredible four man rush and their head coach, man. Joseph, I think has been exceptional this year at knowing when to blitz and taking teams by I bet, I bet their blitz rate has to have like the highest pressure in the NFL. I'm going to look it up now because I feel like week after week, I'm like, wow, Vance, that was perfect, perfect timing for you. While you look that up, when they weren't blitzing, it was very clear that they came into this game with the strategy of taking away what the people that Mahomes likes, which is interesting because I think we often assume that guys are like reading coverages, but what you and I have often pointed to with Mahomes and Kelsey in particular is it feels like they, or not it feels like, they make up routes on important downs.

29:04And it's interesting because like you will call a coverage to take away a concept. If their concept adapts to the coverage, then I hadn't thought about this before, then the right move in that situation is what they were doing is like, we're going to double team the guy. Different guys, different guys too. That was the other thing. It wasn't like, oh, cool. we're going to bracket rishi rice in every play it's like we know what you want to do here and we're going to oh it's travis kelsey here oh it was they were changing it up every yeah that's what i just it just felt like they had such a beat on the chief's tendencies on offense and they would double multiple guys on plays which is like all right you're going to double kelsey i'll go to rice now nope you're doubling him too oh you got the best pass rusher football time's up it's like it's a very and then the answer to that which they did hit them on one deep play the answer to that is like because if you're doubling two people then you don't have a deep middle safety so everyone else is in zero without sending a pressure it's risky and if you're going to do that the answer that is like oh no deep safety and man coverage we're gonna go deep Mahomes missed a couple of those shots he hit I think one or two maybe but that's kind of that's the risk that you're taking it's like all right we know somebody's going to be open every now and then on the deep pass you hit it or not what our pressure get there that's fine against kansas city given like you're like you're like all right i'll take that yeah i mean i've yeah you you you find out in in football that if you're going to load the box you open yourself but like there's always trade-offs and that's a trade-off that they're willing to take it's like we want to frustrate my home uh when they blitz they have the they get sacks 12.5 percent of the time which is third behind atlanta and detroit who are two very good blitzing teams as well um i just i i like i said my big takeaway you know i thought bo really bounced back after a couple bad weeks had made his plays when it counted but generally um just this overwhelming feeling of a coaching discrepancy which was that was my i was just like whoa like yeah i mean credit to credit to both sides but both coaches rather um because they were excellent all right so i'm on the my winner is the eagles defense which has now single-handedly won them two games um mentioned this on nfl live yesterday but i do feel like the jaylen phillips trade is going to go down as one of those like the biggest moments of the 2025 season he was spectacular in this game davis and Carter were also Carter.

31:40There's a million things. It's not just the Phillips trade, but I think because Nekobe Dean was obviously outrageous and then Davis has been amazing all year long. Carter too has gotten better as the year has gone on and you realize, okay, he was injured. Now we're seeing, you know, the guy we saw last year, but I think just watching Phillips, two things jumped out to me. One, he continues to be unbelievably good against the run. very important right that's so important in this eagles because they love to play light boxes but also because carter and davis now are so good and get doubled so often there's been such an opportunity for an edge the lions because you're gonna get single teams the lions have arguably one of the best tackles in football phillips beat him in this game a few times Panay like those inside moves I was just watching like against Panay like I just he was I thought outstanding in this game and the Eagles right now the Eagles front seven is as good as any in football yeah this might sound ridiculous because I want to word this properly Panay Souza is incredible awesome but he's not as a pure pass blocker He's never been like Like Lane Johnson Like you can see people beat him You know so like I could see people Going into it Right so like I'm not suggesting that he's average he's still Awesome but there are guys And Lane's in my mind right now Because he got hurt but I'm in that game but Lane Johnson is a guy who's like Alright he's just not going to get by him Like no matter what he's not going to get by him But they did But it's not so crazy, I guess, to see Penesul lose on the inside move.

33:33But you're right. There's no help there. And collapsing inside that line is really tough. And, again, for that particular team, I think this is a repeat of what we saw for the Lions before. Their last loss is, like, because of Goff's lack of mobility, like, eh, it kind of is a – and it feels like it's rare in the league to have a guy that you're not afraid to, like, rush any old kind of way. because he's not going to go anywhere, and they just pressure up the middle, off the edges. They'll run past him and then retrace and go get him. It's a tough situation that they can't – there's no answer for that if your quarterback can't scare anybody with their legs.

34:14The Lions attacked Adoree Jackson, and they got him once with Williams on the crosser, but the pressure was affecting Goff so much as well as the weather, I personally think. So it was – it felt like he was breaking on balls. They went at him a few times and he played the balls well. I thought Sean Syed, I saw post a video about this that was a point I hadn't considered, which is that they're now, Vic Fangio has been playing Quinn and Mitchell on the short side and they'll move him around so that Adoree Jackson, the throws take longer and he's able to break on them. And I thought that was an interesting adjustment that I had noticed to protect him a little bit, right?