Turning On the Jets? MNF Recap and Winners & Woofs

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0:33Welcome back to the Manicime Show featuring Lenny, Monday Night Football doubleheader recap edition. As always, my co-host Dominique Foxworth and I, co-hosts for Tuesdays, are going to recap Monday night. You made like a quizzical expression. I just wanted to. I was thrilled. I was like, what happened? Is Lenny okay? Lenny's okay. He's downstairs probably eating something that he shouldn't be eating. We're going to talk about both Monday night games. We are going to do winners and woofs. So we're going to get to some of the great performances from the weekend, which are needed after last night's Monday night duo.

1:13I went back and forth. The most relevant team is the Denver Broncos of the four. But I want to start with Jets Dolphins because that was probably the biggest piece of news, which was Tyreek Hill suffering a very gruesome injury during the game, very clearly out for the season. and perhaps notably no longer a trade option for the now one and three Miami Dolphins. But the Dolphins, you know, they kind of rolled them. Yeah. I will say, I kind of think the Jets got jobbed. Yeah. Can we say that? I want to talk about the Dolphins offense. I think the Dolphins offense did some good things. I thought Tua played well.

1:54I want to get into that. But also, like, this should have been a really close game. Right. I mean, I guess I don't, jobbed, like, I thought that that meant, like, they got, like, cheated or something. They didn't get, they didn't get cheated. Well, man. They fumbled. Like, they cheated themselves. No, no, no, yes. I don't mean they deserve to win. However, okay, you're going to have to set aside your cornerback biases because that OPI on Garrett Wilson was insane. I have never seen that cult. Yeah. I mean, I think I'll set aside my cornerback biases. that should be called by the letter of the rule but you're right that's not the way that that's that that is called it's like yeah I mean they allow I was looking at I was trying to figure out how to solve the Eagles offense so I started watching Rams film and one of um because I was thinking like they got to do more play action and they have like similar personnel and that they've super talented receivers um and whatever long story short there was a davante touchdown against the eagles where it's like it's definitely a push but they never called it so yeah i'm with you i i'm not mad at the call because it should be called but they do never call it uh okay no let's talk about the yeah the dolphins side of things um you know i mentioned tyreek hill got in this got injured this game for the most part they were moving the ball on new york with ease it was even when tyree kill was in the game it felt like just the entire game was wide open crossers off of under center or pistol play action and dominique like the jets were like utterly incapable of picking it up i mean what talk to me what did you think see from the jets defense because like that was i thought it was a pretty bad performance uh the second and third level of defense against what they just kept running the same play over and over and over against them i mean i think anyone who listens to your show knows like some basic things that i think are not basic things a little bit more advanced things so like i think most people would understand that uh the defense that they're trying to run is going to be a man heavy defense and they did mix and they've mixed in more zone because they're transitioning i think some from what they did what they've done in the past which was very like zone heavy relying more on defensive line than putting pressure on the quarterbacks but i think there's some problems with their defense and trying to do both things but when you're gonna those crossers and stuff i think that they're that style of defense is um not particularly suited for what the uh dolphins want to do and so uh there's they do they run a lot of man beaters even against zoned so if you just bunch him up if you can't get anything to slow him down you can't get fast pressure you're relying on your cornerbacks to survive in man coverage which is hard for anybody it's hard against anybody but they with waddle and hill and then waller who just like return he's he's a particular matchup um problem for for most linebackers and safeties so like it just felt like it was partially a personnel there.

5:12Yeah, I agree. I think, and you know, again, I think Mike McDaniel deserves some credit because I thought like you pretty clearly identified, uh, the matchup advantage they had in terms, especially given how much man the jets play both in the red zone. Um, when they went to Waller and then really throughout the game, even when Tyree kill went out, just stressing them horizontally seemed to work over and over. It's a pretty cool play calls to that little, um, um hold on I wrote down like everything that happened it was uh they did like an orbit motion with Devon A-Chain and then he to a faked it to Mostert then like flipped it behind his back to Washington and uh A-Chain and Brewer blocked for him yeah it was nine yards but it was the coolest nine yards you'll ever see I think that's like a little bit illustrative of I don't know there's some teams that it's like when you are doing your thing like there are certain things that you can do I guess it's different for different teams but there's something about a level of comfort and confidence that allows you to do the stuff that you that feel like they are connected with your identity and so like to your point when I see them doing that it's like okay you guys are you're like you're feeling good about where you are because that's the type of stuff that I I don't know that I don't think they would normally pull out they haven't pulled out much so far this season or maybe I haven't noticed it because they've been bad do you think that they have a chance offensively with Tyreek Hill out because you mentioned Waddle Waller Malik Washington also has some speed or do you think it's like yeah the way I feel is it's very matchup dependent against defenses like the Jets that are just not good sure they can keep it running but I think against the better defenses in the league, especially defenses with good pass rushes.

7:01I just don't see this like horizontals. You know, it just doesn't seem like it will work as well. Yeah. I mean, I think that my question, I would answer your question with the question is like, what else do they do? You know, and that's because there are going to be teams that through matchups and not even matchups in the back end, but some of that, but also matchups along the defensive line and offensive line and through scheme that are going to be able to take away the things that they want to do do they do something else like they don't feel great at it but something else to keep their offensive float and there's nothing really else that I think they do all that well it kind of feels like they have they haven't had the explosive running attack that they once had if they could have bring that back that'd be fine but it does or that'd be great but it does feel a little bit like the reverse Eagles and that this, the Eagles offense feels weird if they can't run the ball.

7:58And this offense feels weird if they can't do those like quick explosive passes. And yeah, it feels like everything else that they do that's good has to start with, I'm not sure if I'm making sense, but those things open up because. Yeah. It creates space. Right. Teams. Yeah. Typically. But I don't think that if that passing attack works, that they have something else that they can do without that as the initiator. Yeah, I think you're really dependent on Waddle to look a lot like he did early in his career, I think, for this, for what you're describing, the formula to keep working. I do want to say before we move on, like to the other side of the hole, you know, I thought Tuoh did actually play well in this game.

8:37He made some nice throws on the run, a couple throws under pressure, I thought were pretty impressive. So it was a good effort from him against, you know, a very bad Jets defense. And on the other side, it's funny, the Jets' first drive when they were just running the ball at will, I think it was a 12-play drive with nine runs of over five yards. I'm watching this thinking, oh, man, they got a chance at this thing. This was the identity we saw week one, and then you have the horrible fumble at the goal line, and it feels like they never got back to that entire – they still ran the ball really well.

9:09Brees Hall, 14 carries, 50 % success rate, 5.8 yards per carry. Fields ran the ball well. he had that one unbelievable run where he reversed field off of the busted play action and just like outran the entire jets defense but it was just i mean the story of the jets offense in this one was just self-inflicted and a few bad calls i do want to say that it wasn't just the wills there were a few a dude took a head shot on fields it was great i i dan orlowski was calling the game and it was like i was actually really appreciative of how agassi was that that wasn't called because a lot of times when you watch announcers will just like yeah you know like especially with dual threat quarterbacks I was at home like screaming watching that I could not believe that didn't get called I mean don't tell that I actually think he's actually think he's really good at the oh yeah all the games and don't tell him he greased the Waller touchdown he was like Darren Waller bunch all right yeah um it was but yeah they they had 13 penalties for 101 yards yeah that's what I was gonna say it's like you yeah you could point to those and that's true one of the things that because i on tuesdays when we record this i do get up with greenie in the morning and i get a little bit more jets fan bias um poured into my head where there's some level of baggage that comes with being Jets.

10:32And it feels unfair to me a little bit to be treating Aaron Glenn the way that, at least Greedy was talking about this morning, and the way that it generally feels, where it's just like, they're not good, okay? But they're not without hope. Like, they're doing things that are impressive and make me feel okay about this team going forward. Of course, he didn't turn it around overnight, but they're competitive against the Bucs, which is a pretty good team. They're fighting through this game and they're doing things well, like their offense, to your point, their offense wasn't bad. So, like, I don't know.

11:12There's some hope. Yeah, the penalties thing is weird because they had an outrageous amount of penalties last year. And that was something I mentioned when they hired Glenn, like, OK, he's going to get it cleaned up. And then, you know, it's hard to know. I would actually be curious to hear your perspective. When a team has a lot of penalties and then they continue to have a lot of penalties, how much of that do you put on coaching versus like, okay, they just have players who are undisciplined or maybe lacking? I think, too, with penalties, like something that sometimes gets ignored or underplayed when fans – we always talk about it in the terms of discipline and like coaching, and it's like a lot of penalties happen because players aren't good.

11:54That's why holding happens. That's why players like a lot of times they're just compensating for not being good. And in truth, a lot of it is the roster. Yeah, we got to separate pre-snap penalties for and in the course of play penalties. Like to your point, pass interference. Some guys are more grabby than others, but pass interference is because you can't cover the guy. Holding is because you can't block the guy. I don't think that's about discipline. It's like maybe you could be disciplined enough to give up the sack or give up the big play. Defensive pass interference we're talking about. But there's a difference between pre-snap penalties, false starts, formation stuff.

12:35That feels a little bit more like coaching. But I also am like at this level, how much of practice throughout a week are we focused on making sure a guy knows where he's supposed to be and when he's supposed to be there? Like some of that to me is also about leadership. And this is one of those things where culture comes into play that that takes a while to change, where there are some things that just are unacceptable. And because you recognize that they're unacceptable, the players who create those sorts of situations, they're gone. And and you're the guys who remain have a motive, a level of motivation to address those things going forward.

13:15So I think it all ends up falling on the coach, but it's also about internal leadership, players allowing that stuff to go on. Speaking of leadership, Nick Folk, 40 years old, trotted out there, trotted, sort of lurched out there, kicked a 58-yard field goal, final, and he looked all of his four, and you know what, I'm 40. uh i can't i can't even all right you don't look 40 though thank you i want to throw out an idea i put this on blue sky and neither do i is what you were supposed to say but it's you're you neither i said before the podcast you look great today you were saying that my background look good that's fine a lady told me today or yesterday that i look 35 so i don't need your petty your pity compliments um i i want to run an idea by you if if a team has a kicker over 40 years old field goals should count for four points if the kicker is over 45 field goals should count for five points and if you have a kicker over 50 years old you'll go should count for eight points the problem with that is you're incentivizing people to sign all the kickers And sometimes field goals get blocked.

14:32Sometimes kickoffs get returned. And I don't need a 60-year-old man out there who happens to be able to have, like, hip flexibility to kick the ball, but not the bone density to tackle a man. Flip side, if the kicker is under 15, 10 points. If the kicker is under 5, you automatically win the game. i said that purely because i wanted to introduce the idea of jim harbaugh holding tryouts for toddler kickers and trying to coach him up all right that's fine so the the k-ball that's that's the answer for why these kicks are so deep now have you heard this yeah yeah you know who told me this during the season mitch schwartz credit to him he was like yeah no one's talking about this this this ball change and like he's like i'm telling you these kickers are super powered now Yeah.

15:24Shout out, Mitch. Good job. Sorry for the detour. All right. Let's talk about the Broncos and the Bengals. There's really not a lot to discuss. This was a complete and utter butt kicking. I do enjoy, quick shout out, I love Troy Aikman on Bad Games. Cracks me up. He's so funny. He gets mad and he also gets exasperated. And like, it's just, I think at the end, he kind of suggested Bengals. What do you, I mean, it's over for you. Yeah, it's over. It's very over. We'll talk, let's talk about the Bengals in a second, but we should start with the Broncos. As expected, the Broncos defense just wiped them off the table.

16:07Broncos defense, one of the best in the NFL. The Bengals entire strategy seemed to be throwing at Riley Moss.

16:17the Pioneer Tee Higgins on Riley Moss. Problem was a lot of those shows were not particularly accurate. Also, it's, you know, fates are hard. I also appreciate you bringing up Riley Moss because that was the point I made in the pre-show meeting on Get Up this morning. And of course, we don't want to talk about it because it wasn't like explosive plays necessarily. I thought there was something about Riley Moss that might give me a chance to get him into the show today, but we didn't get to. But I thought he did a great job because there were times, even though Sertan is great and they wanted Sertan on chase, there were times where they gave Sertan some help.

16:55They didn't for Riley throughout the course of the game. And it wasn't, they weren't like protecting Sertan. He was in man coverage plenty, but the way that Riley Moss, and Riley Moss is the only true pioneer. Like as good as Cooper DeGene is, he plays safety and nickel. He came out as a corner, but they don't put him on the outside. You got a motion and shift to get him on outside. Riley walk out there, play man damn coverage every snap, all game, all year long. Also, he is a legitimately extremely important player on this team. Like when we think about the Broncos and big games and they got a big one coming up playoffs.

17:30This is I'm joking because it was so blatant in this game. Like you rarely see like such an obvious and explicit strategy. But this is defenses are always going to throw. And it's not because of Riley Moss. It's because he plays opposite Patrick Sertan. So, you know, last year, before he got hurt, he was playing really well. And he came back from the injury and he really struggled. In fact, against the Bengals, if I remember correctly. But that was, of course, with Joe Burrow, a quarterback. But he was hurt. And I think to see him play really well, you're right. It is important. He is an important figure on this team.

18:05Credit to Riley. I know what it feels like to be Riley Moss. well I don't know exactly what it feels like to be Riley Moss but on the field a Denver Broncos cornerback playing opposite a future Hall of Famer is is how I started my career so I have some uh empathy or I guess it yeah definitely empathy not sympathy I don't feel sorry for him for Riley Moss in that situation and he's he's done incredibly well I mean it's tough though because even when he has bad games it's like what you're asking him to do and we don't appreciate how much it allows other people to do to have the success that they want to have because they put them in man coverage so often you're gonna have bad games in man coverage it's just a fact of life unless like daryl revis i don't know i mean i can't think of anybody who's just placed man coverage all game all season long like they do and doesn't have a couple ugly plays they did play a lot of zone in this one it was they makes i mean you they definitely altered their game plan given the competition they didn't blitz a lot they they like you said they helped out they they zoned off um jamar chase on that side of the field i'm sorry you saying i know what it feels like to be riley moss is like one of the it's like a reverse of the yeah yeah i walked a day in his shoes i experienced the discrimination that riley lost his face on a daily basis that was the joke you explained it now it's not funny no i explained it uh riley t again says four inches on Riley Moss, by the way.

19:32So, you know, it's credit to him. Other side of the ball. The field's available, but I won't make it. I know. I do want to talk about the other side of the ball because this is what I was interested in seeing because the Broncos' offense so far this season has been underwhelming. Both running the ball. Coming into this game, Bo Nix was like 8 for 24 on passes downfield. Let's start with the good part. They ran the ball really well in this one, admittedly against the Bengals defense you can apply that general caveat to this entire part of the conversation but it was cool to see J.K. Dobbins finally explode because we've been waiting for this like this run game it's like okay they have a really good offensive line maybe they're not quite as dominant as last year but get new backs should be better and it just hasn't been so far this season but J.K.

20:21Dobbins 16 carries 60 6.3 yards of carry 69 percent success rate zero run stuffs um he looks really good he looked really explosive i thought you know if they can keep if you know i'm not going to be as dominant against better defenses but like that's that's a formula that can work for them and it's important because one of the other things i i really noticed in this game and it's been the case all year but i want to get your thoughts on it um defenses are all over these bo nicks boots man like they call it a lot they boot them out a lot Sometimes it's naked. Sometimes it's boots. And you constantly now see the edges peeling off on him.

20:59And a lot of the throws downfield are covered up. So they really need the run game to work in accompaniment with that. And so it was good to see that effective. So, again, I'll draw my experience as Denver Bronco is that I'm sure any Broncos fans that are listening to this recognize this offense as early 2000s, late 90s offense where like it felt like especially um when i was there with um jake plumber it was like so much zone away and zone cut back with boot it's just like we are going to get you out of this pocket and clear the picture up for you give you a timer which like i think that's an underappreciated part about the boot is like it gives you a clock you can't hold on to the ball too long because you're running towards the sideline and that's what worked for him and it worked for him at times in this game but the next step is going to be able to they force that if they force you they take that away which some teams have then you have to sit in the pocket which Bo Nix I think he did a couple times in this game that one touchdown to Sutton was a great accurate throw but yeah that you have to be able to run the ball if your offense is going to be based around boots and waggles Yeah, I thought Nix Made a couple of nice throws Later on Early in the game, he had some misses And it looked kind of like it has thus far this season But it looked like he settled down a bit Hit Sutton on a really nice ball You know, for the most part The game plan was like They really cannot stop screens and throws to the flat So we're just going to do that over 40 % of his throws were screens or balls to the flats and like sure i mean it worked you know it's hard for me to be critical of that approach against this defense honestly the final touchdown toss to was it harvey or dobbins at the end it was hard it was where they blitzed where yeah i'll want out golden scent like i mean that's one of the worst displays in defense i think that was i was the other touchdown it was a running touchdown where they did a crack in the corner couldn't replace they just had some bad some bad defensive plays yeah um where we at on bow let's let's let's let's get back to that like what was your overall take on him from this game i mean i'm i'm where i think i've always been is that when he's accurate he's good i mean he's uh he's he's one of those guys like he's in a golf category like a low-end golf, if that makes sense, where it's like I think golf is a high-end golf at times, where it's like we need – there's going to be some more support.

23:50You're going to need some more support. He's not a take-over-the-game type of guy. He can – when he's accurate, he can make the throws that you need him to make, but it's going to require some support from the elements that are around him, and he's fortunate enough to have Sean Payton, who I think understands what he does well and tries to put him in positions to do that. Yeah, and also I think, not to just keep hammering this, but in terms of support around him, the run game, to me, is kind of the key to this whole – it really goes down to the nature of the offense that we talked about, the structure of it, and also just kind of these limitations as a passer.

24:26And again, in his defense, there were a couple of drops downfield. He also had the touchdown, the interception in the end zone. I think it was Demetrius Harvey was the Bengals linebacker who picked it. That was a really bad decision. I actually thought he should have just run it in. But I think if you're a Broncos fan at this point, it's hard to say you're happy about the first few games of offense that we've seen. But it's very early in the season. Young quarterback, still figuring things out. And in my mind, the greater disappointment up to this point has been the lack of a rushing attack. Because the whole promise of this offseason is, okay, cool, we got this dominant offensive line.

25:07Now we're going to pair him with a run game and we can play action off that and all this. And it just hasn't been there. So it was good to see it. Both Dobbins and Harvey both look good to me. So that is certainly helpful in that regard. Yeah, I don't know. At the moment, at this point, I feel just sort of similarly to how I felt about the Broncos last season. dominant defense sort of up and down offense um i think yeah i would like to see bo nicks do the things that because he was good on third down um even when he i mean third down when there is no threat of the play action or the boot he just has to sit in the pocket and make decisions but i think the aspirations for this team require me to see him do this against good teams and so like i think they have a pretty tough game coming up they're not i think they have a yes the eagles this weekend oh my god okay cool well yeah we'll find out learn a lot um and that's going to be one where you know vic fangio and those guys are going to be all over a lot of these concepts that we've been talking about so yeah cover four is is probably the best I would say for this like boot and, and a zone type offense cover for would be the best defense to play.

26:22Just base defense. I mean, I already know I'm going to be just, can they run the ball on Philadelphia and those light by it's going to be the biggest determinant. I think of whether or not they have success in that one. Okay. Those were the two Monday night games. Let's take a quick break, come back and do winners and wuss. As you know, managing maintenance, repair and operations is never easy, But for the ones who always rise to the challenge, Grainger has your back. From professional-grade products you can count on to fast, dependable delivery, they are there to help you keep things running smoothly.

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28:53Shopify.com slash network. All right, we're back. Dominique, your winner this week. Oh, my winner this week is the New York Giants. What a win for, I mean, Dart is incredible, but like the defense. Like a funny thing is I imagined in my mind before I looked at the stats. I mean, I watched the game, but I was like, man, it's defense. I just remember the interceptions. Those are big plays, but like this defense dominated. They didn't really dominate, but they made the key plays that they needed to make to take the pressure off of Jackson Dart. So I think the interceptions weren't like, I mean, they definitely weren't lucky, but it was like kind of things you can't count on with Dexter Lawrence tip interception.

29:41Then the other one was a receiver fell down and when they're running like a pick route, they made those interceptions and capitalized on them, but they stood up in the red zone and were good on defense. But I still think no matter how limited Jackson Dart's play was, the story is still Jackson Dart and the offense. I just, the emotion of the game was the thing that was weird, which is hard to talk about. But it was so clear that they came out there with a different level of enthusiasm. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's, you don't, I think, okay, so let's talk about Jackson Dart. You're right. The defensive line dominated, admittedly, extremely injured Chargers offensive line.

30:30Justin Herbert was just, every play was dead on. He had no chance back there. Some of that is because the Giants defensive line is really good, and he's had the misfortune of going back-to-back against Denver. I mean, geez, Luis, he has been in absolute hell. Both defenses, I think, had a 50 %-plus pressure rate against him, And in this last game, he had like a 2.6 time to throw and it just didn't matter at all. Jackson, so there's a lot. A lot of things I found interesting about this first game. You have to start with the athleticism in my mind, which you talk about, like the kind of enthusiasm, excitement.

31:09I mean, this is something just I feel like we've seen time and time again over the years, which is the way a young quarterback who can move has the like the ability to, you know, it's you really don't have to. to like play quarterback at high level and make really difficult throws and all of that like just seeing a guy out there who can move and keep plays alive with his feet really does have a um a way of bringing a team to life and he it was the way he moved too i want to give him some credit um because this is actually what i liked about him in college um the thing that jumped out to me maybe the most watching his college tape at ole miss was when he was scrambling and he scrambled a done in this game.

31:50He wasn't bailing like some of the other quarterbacks in the class and then like turning the corner because I, you know, we were watching Shador or Cam Ward even do that. You're watching that and thinking that's not going to work in the NFL. He was always running through the teeth of the defense and he had pretty good vision, honestly, as a scrambler. And you saw kind of the same thing in this game. Like he was, when he, when he was taking off in a lot of instances, he was really decisive and it was like the right decision frankly given the way the chargers were playing them very quarter centric defense um there was often like voids for him to run into and some of it was designed but a lot of it was scrambling and he looked good i think the flip side of that is like there were a few moments where he trusted his athleticism too much of his past passer which is why he took a lot of sacks like he was trying to keep plays alive but like you know that's first start young quarterback um so i think that if i had to like that to me that was like the story of the game with him was just him using his legs and most of the time those scrambles actually being the right calls yeah i think using his legs and also you mentioned some of the design stuff that that just wasn't in the playbook before i would add on top of it like the flip side to him hold it onto the ball too long in this case he didn't have to um take any risks so like him not throwing an interception or turning the ball over like i think was a huge difference in this game which as veteran quarterbacks turn the ball over.

33:16And I think him making the decision. Now, there's going to be a time where you're going to have to be more aggressive. And we see that with other quarterbacks who are unwilling to take those shots and hold onto the ball too long. And maybe they don't turn the ball over. I think like the Bengals game is an example of that, where it seemed clear that Browning had decided he wasn't going to throw an interception that game. But he also wasn't going to make no damn plays. You just throw these jump ball fades out of bounds and it wouldn't really work. So I think, um, dart has shown that ability, but at some point we have to, he's going to be in a game where he's going to have to, uh, let it rip.

33:51So some of those throws where he held onto it too long, probably avoided interceptions, but also didn't make the plays. Kind of felt like that watching the Eagles since they can have, by the way, it hurts, gets into that mode a little bit too. Like, I'm not going to turn the ball over. I'll give AJ Brown a chance, but it's not going to be a, um, interceptable throw. Yeah. Yeah. So like, I think that's right. I also, you don't want him taking that much contact. Like he was, I mean, even in the game, he hurt his head at one point. He pulled his hammy like this. It's too much. Um, and now they're down Malik neighbors.

34:22So you, you do worry. I think this week, upcoming week against new Orleans, they'll probably be all right, but maybe honestly, the neurons defense has actually improved a bit. But then after that, who buddy Eagles, Broncos Eagles is, is coming down the pike. But, um, But listen, I was questioning whether or not it was wise to even start him against the Chargers. And clearly that worked out. So absolutely deserve the win here. I think now pivoting for New York, it just comes down to how can we protect him from taking too many hits the rest of the season, quite frankly? What can we do to ensure that he actually develops without Malik neighbors?