Who Will Eat Humble Pie on Thanksgiving? Plus: The Niners QB Choice

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0:33welcome back to the mean the time show featuring lenny special thanksgiving preview slash monday night football recap edition um this week we are foregoing winners and woofs to preview the thanksgiving slate of games and then later in this week with ben select i will preview the rest of the week 13 games. Whew, crazy. And we're doing Thanksgiving part because the games are awesome. Like every single Thanksgiving game is good. It's not saying that happened. I mean, it's happened more and more recently because the Lions have started to become good. It's like we used to always have to watch the Lions who were not good.

1:14And the Cowboys are interesting this year and they're good now, it feels like. So yeah, those two, those are always the Thanksgiving games, right? Joe Burrow playing is also adds an extra layer of intrigue. We will talk about Monday of football. Not at great length because it was not a good game. Unless you're a... I saw Jason Accordi on the timeline. This game is great. The DVs are loving it. I do think... So we'll talk about the Panthers in a second. Panthers affirming my season-long stance of not trying to predict anything about the Carolina Panthers week to week. I think the Niners, though, are worth talking about first and worth, well, obviously they won.

1:57I think worth asking you a question, and it's the question on everybody's minds after Brock Purdy threw three interceptions. Poor Brock Purdy, by the way. He, like, Monday Night Football has just not been kind to him. They were putting up some of his numbers. He's had just some real stinkers. You remember the Ravens game a few years ago? So the Niners are 8-4, though. And the question, and you know this is what's coming, is should they stick with Brock Purdy? Because undeniably the offense looked better with Mack Jones. It just did. It 100 % did. So you go first and I'll give you my thoughts because watching back the Purdy interceptions, I have some thoughts on what might be going on there.

2:41Yeah, so it doesn't – I think, first of all, I'm surprised at how competitive, I guess, this 49ers team is considering all the injuries on the defensive side of the ball. I thought the Purdy question wasn't going to be a question. The Purdy-Mac Jones question wasn't going to be a question because it wasn't like Mac Jones was, like, unbelievable, but he was good in there. And also, like, I figured this team would start to fall apart defensively and not be in the hunt. So in a very difficult NFC, they're still a viable team. Like I wouldn't consider them a Super Bowl contender, but they're good enough to make the playoffs and then anything can happen.

3:16And then that's why this question becomes a lot more difficult because they're going to have to win by slim margins. And what you can do, actually, considering what Purdy's history is as kind of I don't call him a gunslinger, But Purdy's a confident guy who throws with anticipation, throws blind, like openly talks about throwing blind into spots that he can't see, but he anticipates him being open. Like those are some of the values that's made him overachieve his like late round drafting status. So like I like the belief that he has built up enough credibility that you would stick with him. Like it doesn't seem like a realistic question to me.

3:58I could make an argument for going to Mac Jones. I mean, I just kind of did is the different types of quarterbacks that they are when you don't have a slim margin. But you could also make the argument the other way is like you got to have a risk taker at quarterback if the margins are going to be slim. I think that if they were to go back to Mac Jones, the justification that they would use. And I actually I say just because I think there might be some legitimacy to this is that Purdy's not right, because all three interceptions were inaccurate passes. and he was floating them up there and he threw a few of them it wasn't even just you know and he did last week as well and i think if they can say there's something about his lower body right now that's leading to him not to to you know throwing these ducks which is you know that you're shaking your head like that's not a it's a real thing it's no no i'm sorry i'm not shaking in my head saying it's not a real thing i'm shaking my head so yeah one one thing first of all in purdy's defense i'd say all three of them weren't about accuracy the one jc horn the second jc horn one where he helped off of coverage like that to me felt like just a great jc horn play that i would like when he came from the backside you think that was actually you're talking about the third one or yeah yeah no the year right that one was sorry the first two were yeah the first two were like behind them inaccurate bad passes brock purdy is not a great arm strength guy he can't afford to do that which is why he throws anticipation the reason why i'm shaking my head is i hear you also managing brock purdy's confidence while you're making this pitch and that's what i was shaking my head about is because no matter how hard you try there will be no managing it Like, so that's, I think that's, that's why I'd be hesitant is because you are, no matter what justification you give, you're benching your franchise quarterback that you just paid for a guy that you just signed.

5:58And if it gives you a better chance this year, that's fine, but there will be ramifications going forward. Yeah, I guess, you know, I do think that the injury thing is real, though, because Brock Purdy, you know, it's always been, you alluded to this, a criticism of his game that he will put the ball in harm's way a bit more than other Shanahan. Well, not Jimmy Garoppolo, but but that's, I would say, countered by the fact that he has playmaking ability outside of structure, which Mac Jones doesn't have. and the last few years, an ability and willingness to push the ball downfield in a way that other Shanahan quarterbacks haven't.

6:38So I guess what I'm saying is if he can't push the ball downfield right now, I think it is completely fair for them to say, hey, man, you're just not right yet. And I hear you're saying it is a benching or whatever, but I personally think there would be some legitimacy to that, especially the way this Niners offense is built right now. Like there's, you know, we don't need to talk about whatever the hell's going on with Brandon Ayuk. But this offense is built at the moment to be like a 10 to 20 yard offense and in short passes to McCaffrey. It's where they had success against a Carolina defense that didn't have their linebackers, very obviously.

7:20Like there wasn't, you know, guys were open on, you know, so it wasn't like, oh, I shouldn't have thrown, you know, some of those balls, whatever. But my point is like this offense can run in the Mac Jones style and be successful because of the skill players and because of the run game when things are clicking. So it is undeniably at the moment inferior right now, unless Purdy's health does improve and maybe it'll improve and maybe, maybe he will get better. You know, maybe he'll be able to put a little more oomph on some of those passes. Yeah. I mean, I think that there's two conversations that need to be had.

7:59You need to have the first conversation that you're having first is like, is this the smart thing to like make us better today and tomorrow? And then there is like interpersonal, like psychology management conversation, a team management conversation to be had going forward, because we can't pretend as if you're dealing with robots. And maybe Brock Purdy, given that he was Mr. Irrelevant, is more suited to deal with this level of slight. But if you are improving your chances this year, you are creating some other dynamic that you're going to have to deal with at some point in time. Is it worth it?

8:38I mean, you know, Mac Jones is going to get – he's going to get a deal this year. He's got one more, doesn't he? Doesn't he have one more? Oh, God. I think he has one more. Okay, well, someone's going to try to trade for him then. Yeah, right. And that is also going to be an interesting discussion. discussion for he dramatically i don't think i've really talked about on the podcast he really exceeded my expectations i think he showed a lot of growth this year in the kyle shanahan school for wayward boys so i i just i don't know i don't think this is a simple one for san francisco because they're eight and four um so to hit the other side of the the defense pardon me a little bit though that the Panthers defense uh now JC Horn is hurt and they got the Rams I think next week no yeah they do that good luck without JC Horn good lord JC Horn's so good too I feel like this earlier season after the Saints game I slandered him a little bit because he felt um I I think like yeah pretty threw up some ducks but also like credited Jiro Evro's unit down all their starting linebackers outmanned um i thought like a lot of uh unknown names made good plays in the red zone they were tackling hard i think they had like a good it didn't feel like when you watch the niners and guys are running around wide open and getting million yards after the catch i think like this has been an impressive unit given that it's obviously a rebuilding one and evro deserves a ton of credit for that even if you know pretty threw a couple up for them yeah for sure and i mean they've been playing well it felt like and maybe this is always the case in nfl but a lot of teams and again this year it feels like teams are closer like uh to the pack there aren't like a runaway team with exception of maybe the rams but this weekend it just felt like a lot of the teams just who may not have fought in the past like put up real fights like the jets against the ravens after all their players two weeks in a row after all their their top players got traded away and the Bengals still struggling and fighting against the Pats and the Giants had that game won.

10:44It's like any given Sunday, cliche nonsense, but it's nice to see it come to fruition. The games that I thought were going to be bad were good and maybe we'll get to some of that this weekend too. Okay, so flipping it to the other side, my question for you is this. Are you more impressed with this Robert Sala coach defense that has managed to talk about Jero Evero? I mean, they lose their two best players, two of the most impactful players in the NFL, and they have continued to look competent week after week. In this one, they were dominant. Or do you think it's more about the Bryce Young rollercoaster taking another dip?

11:19I know it's a little bit of both. Yeah, it's definitely a little bit of both. I think I come away from this more interested in the Bryce Young rollercoaster than I do in the 49ers defense because he came off of 400 yards last week, and this defense is, of course, beatable but playing well. I'm less surprised by that because like we we've seen it like we just watched Everett do it with the other side like it's a thing you play sound solid defense you're a well coached team it normally happens that way so like those superstar players they are the ones who like break games and like we saw like I just mentioned the Jets like if you have good sound solid coaching in a sound solid defense you'll play good enough those other special players are the ones that like blow it out of the water but the thing that was shocking and sad was the anytime you get a little chance to get excited about Bryce Young and think that he's going to convince them that he's the the answer you get something like this and of course we all know how much those stand-along primetime games impact the perception disproportionately if he had done what he did last week this week might be looking at extension talks I know you're 100 % right it really does feel though and i know i joke about like i ain't touching panthers games but like this is why with young it's just felt like one step forward two steps back this season and this was a major step back he really struggled in this he was so rattled by pressure both real and not um you know bailing on some pockets um and bad decisions made the other one that thing that really bummed me out was like tedrow mcmillan has been so good this year and then he also had a stinker i mean he had the the the team ball yeah but he had the drop right uh yeah but he had the drop early on and um i don't know i wouldn't put a lot of this on him but it was i don't know even like they have a good drive and i'm watching it and it's like okay cool they hit the rpo to coker and he hits out to Coker and everything's going on time.

13:26And then again, and then it's another blitz and throws a pick. And I mean, well, okay. So that one actually, that particular drive got like wildly held, which was a terrible, but you know, okay. I don't think the Panthers, this was not their game. I'm not saying that they lost because of that call where they were driving or whatever, but that was pretty bad. That was like, like physically, you rarely see like a hold where the player actually gets yoinked back and then Jire Brown made the interception. That was like a crazy miss on the part of the refs. So I do want to comment on that. I'm partial to the DBs normally.

14:03I refuse. I played the fifth on this particular conversation. They went away from the run game. Yeah. What do you think about that? Like, did you felt like, because the Niners, I mean, the run defense was good early on, But do you feel like Dave Canales put a little bit too much on Bryce Young's shoulders? No. I mean, yes, but no. Like, you have to say yes because he obviously couldn't handle it in that spot. But given the situation in the game, the looks that they were receiving, the opportunities that were there, I think that – I got to be honest. I didn't break down the whole, like, game plan and scheme throughout.

14:46But it did not feel like they walked out there and abandoned the run and said, hey, get empty and whip it around. We're not going to give you any help. Like that interception in red zone was like that felt like the game was over when it happened. You know, on first down, you just got a turnover that puts you on the damn two yard line or three yard line and you could run it in and you throw that interception like that. it's hard to find somewhere to point the figure other than the guy who's throwing pass in that situation. Really struggled against man coverage, mostly because that was when they blitzed.

15:23But yeah, the Niners did sell out to stop the run a decent amount in this one. He just was not able to punish them for it at all. And, you know, outside of McMillan, it's not like a group of world beaters. I like Coker, but it, you know, a lot of it, you got to really put on the quarterback. Yeah. That's going to be the NFC. Somebody's got to win the NFC South. They asked me about it yesterday, because the Bucs obviously are on this losing streak, and I'm like, they're still a better team, clearly, to me. They just have a bunch of injuries, and they face a really hard schedule over the last few weeks.

15:57And they just got, I mean, God, the Rams just did that to the Bucs. But now the Bucs have the Cardinals, the Saints, the Falcons, the Panthers, the Dolphins, the Panthers. So you could easily see them ripping off a bunch of wins. All right. Sorry, Panthers fans. I guess we were optimistic about the defense. JZ Horn's awesome. Derek Brown's good. They did bottle up Christian McCaffrey a decent amount on the ground. So, you know, I talked about that run defense being improved, but I do think there's going to be difficult conversations to be had about the quarterback position. Let's do the first Thanksgiving game before we take a break.

16:32Packers-Lions rematch of week one when it looked like the Panthers were going to go, or Packers, pardon me, We're going to go undefeated. Revisiting some of my notes from that game, Jared Goff was absolutely under siege. This was like the, oh my God, they have Micah Parsons game. He averaged 3.3 air yards per attempt. It was mostly just a four-man rush. Goff is coming off of a weird game. So they beat the Lions because Jameer Gibbs, who we'll get to in a second. That's literally why they beat the Lions. Jameer Gibbs. Yes, that's it. Or they beat the Giants, right? Or the Giants. I'm sorry. The Lions beat the Giants last week.

17:16It was an insane game. I'm actually more forgiving of the Lions defense because I think they just ran into a weirdo Jameis Winston teeter game, and it happens. But Goff never looked comfortable to me, and he was really bad under pressure. And going back and watching some of the pressures, Dominique, um same issues with interior pressure that we've seen the guard was getting his butt the left guard whose name escapes me uh he's a backup was getting his butt kicked by Darius Alexander actually and Nunez Roches but also the tackles got I mean the Lions have a very good pass rush but it just and there were moments too where Goff was so rattled you could see him just completely bail or throw the ball too quickly so pressure was a major issue in that one is there any reason to believe that the Packers can't do that again in terms of creating a tremendous amount of pressure?

18:09Dan Campbell's taking over the play calling, but I mean, there is no reason to believe that they can't do it again. I guess that you would scheme away from it. You move the pocket a lot. That's the major criticism. And I think I've made this on your show a couple of times of Jared Goff is like the modern quarterback is more mobile than he is. And he is like a good decision maker most of the time when he's not under pressure, but it does limit what you can do. And it's not even that you need him in a quarterback design run game, but I think moving the pocket would help to get them to slow down the pass rush and to run away from it.

18:44And the scrambling would help to help have defensive ends not want to run past and those sorts of things. I think that's the biggest hang-up for me with dealing with Jared Goff and the move. So if you remember, I'm trying to think of, oh, like the beginning of the season, remember when Herbert won that game against the Chiefs because Chris Jones did an inside move and like there are some quarterbacks for whom you can't do inside moves and that most quarterbacks in the league you got to be careful about giving them the edge and that's like it just makes it so much more difficult for your tackles if they can go inside they can go outside they can move take any move that they want they can blitz completely up the middle like that's the you have to if you're going to be a quarterback like that you have to be so precise brady-esque is who i would think of drew breeze it's like we know exactly what you're going to do i'm going to be ready for it and i'm going to make the decision quickly and not only i mean jared golf's not that and nobody is that really i think the other thing you're seeing defenses do against scoff this year aside from you know just when the offensive line isn't as dominant and we talked a lot about the interior of the offensive line but i'm telling you these tackles yeah they had a tough one um they're taking away his outlets again, like in this Giants game, like your, your Blitz and Gibbs, which we're seeing teams do more and more off of play action to try to take him out of the play.

20:08And he's not a great pass protect. He's good at everything else. He's not a great pass protector. Or you could see them. I noticed this, like, I think Gibbs better than Montgomery and pass pro, which is a wild take, but I was like, literally, I was thinking like, Hey, maybe you put in Dave Montgomery. And then I look back at some of my notes. sounds like oh no no they don't they don't have um anyway i'm sorry i stopped no no no it's an issue with them and then the other thing like you know goff really wants to hit those quick hitters off of play action over the middle of the field and you see defensive linemen knowing that and like you'll drop a guy to take that away as well that's the thing like they it feels right now that like the good defenses kind of have a beat on them again the giants can't stop outside runs so that ultimately led to their undoing but uh that brings me to my next concern about green bay which is they've been unbelievable versus runs to the to the edge versus outside zone the packers defense which was very good week one interestingly montgomery had a better success against them than gibbs for this reason 2.8 yards per carry versus outside zone that's the lowest in the nfl and that's a pretty big sample size at this point of season so my question for you is knowing that that's a strength of Green Bay knowing they're going to try to take away golf's outlets.

21:28What would you do if you're Detroit to mitigate some of this?

21:35All right. So assume that outside zones off the table, you're going to get pressures. Like obviously you'll have screen game involved in it. I think honestly, what I would look at is max protection, big shots to JMO is find these isolations because we've noticed throughout this season. And I think it might have been the Monday night crew was pointing out how confidently the corners for Green Bay are playing because they know how aggressive the pass rush is or how effective the pass rush is. So I think that's what I would try to do is like play action shots. And I have a couple of like go-to kind of things.

22:14And one of them that I'm sure you've heard me say before is like you get teams to stop blitzing by hitting a big play on them. If you hit a five yard, like if you just survive the blitz, there's no reason for them to stop blitzing. They're going to keep blitzing you because you are eventually they feel like they're going to get the play. So I think that's what I'd be looking for is create the matchup. If you can find the blitz, create the matchup where you can have a short pass to Gibbs in a one on one situation. if you're doing some sort of zone blitz or simulated pressure and let Gibbs in open field against someone else or block it all up, two-man route, J-Mo on the deep corner with a deep cross from St.

22:54Brown. Your biggest matchup advantage in this game is your receivers against their corners. So the question is, and you cut right to it, how do you take advantage of that matchup if you have a disadvantage on the offensive line? And yeah, I think there's two ways you can do that. One of which is you max protect. And I think that's the direction they'll go in because they don't, they don't run empty with Jared Goff, like at all. I looked up, I was curious. I was like, when was the last time I saw Jared Goff? According to Next Gen or True Media this year, he, he has nine dropbacks out of empty. Yeah.

23:30I think that's something you got to do. I think in terms of the run game, buddy i do think like you probably you want to try to move bodies on the inside i would try to find ways to run between the tackles and and historically that has been more montgomery than gibbs um i'll be very interested you talked about the blitz i'll be very interested in seeing if because the first time they came around green bay just said we'll rush with four but when green bay rushes with four they move their guys around last week they did the demonic sign of the devil with micah parsons behind the nose tackle wouldn't be surprised if we see that again by the way because of the interior so you get one-on-ones on the outside because they wad things up on the inside i also feel like they could do that too because again jared goff loves throwing over the middle of the field but if you've got micah parsons getting a running start into the a-cap like he's less likely to do that So, yeah, you just got to find a way to buy time for him.

24:32I mean, it's tough. On the flip side, so I have a question for you, which is whether or not if you're Detroit, you try to blitz Jordan Luff. Yeah. He has been the best quarterback against the Blitz this year by a lot of metrics. You saw that this week in admittedly a close game, but he hit some big plays with pressure bearing down on him, including one hilarious Kobe moment. The first time these teams played, he destroyed the Blitz against them. He hit two of his biggest plays when the Lions send pressure. They have a different receiving group, obviously, now. There's no Jaden Reed and Tucker Craft in the mix.

25:19But it feels like they're starting to attack downfield again, and I would say that spells trouble for Detroit if they send pressure. Yeah, I don't imagine that. I mean, I assume that they learned their lesson, and that's not the way that they're going to approach this game. I think you're reliant. The problem is they are such a – We do what we do. Yeah, such a we do what we do type of team, and they also like – yeah, to your point, no matter what happens, injury concerns or whatever, they're going to do what they do, And we've been so pleased, I think, for the most part with the injuries of secondary where people continue to step up.

25:57But to start it, the starting point of this secondary is it's not a tremendously good coverage, like great. I know they have good safeties, but just lockdown man coverage is not something that despite the fact that they try to do it, it's not something that they do incredibly well. Aiden Hutchinson is the key. Is he going to and McNeil like disruptive up front? is the only way I think that they have success doing this. And they actually, they've put some tweaks in. I think it was the Commanders game where I saw them doing something that they were playing like cover three with the middle safety, playing like an aggressive, like a robber-style technique, where I think they might be willing to take those chances.

26:41And because oftentimes the middle safety is just like a deterrent. Like you'll leave him back there. No one ever really like throws at him. He doesn't do anything, but being back there is enough to scare people away. So I saw them activate this middle safety into coverage against the commanders. And it's a riskier thing to do because if you're in cover three and there's no one back there, then deep shots. But maybe they'll do something like that and lean more into the cover three. Where do you think Jordan Love ranks in QBR against man coverage this year? Hi. I'll give him one. Yeah. it's very unusual to have such a bad matchup in your division because like the game's in detroit yeah but the more i thought about it i think here's what i just to go off the defense because i'm still a believer in the lions defense i think that i know i i'm a broken record with this with green bay and green bay had success running against Minnesota, but I still think you're better off if you're Detroit if they hand the ball.

27:53Your run defense against their rushing attack is a matchup advantage for Detroit, so you want to entice them to hand the football off and then play coverage, I think. I'm still not convinced this Green Bay offense has yards after the catch ability right now without Reid and without Kraft, So I wouldn't be surprised if they do play a little bit more zoned than they normally do and just try to get Green Bay to run the ball. Can I just have something just popped into my head? I know we weren't talking. We already moved on from the Lions offense, but I want to throw this in the mix also. I wouldn't be afraid to run the ball on if they're planning to be aggressive on fourth down, which I think they are.

28:39I wouldn't be afraid to run the ball on obvious passing downs to get to a more manageable situation if you're going to go for it anyway or if you don't get much and you choose to punt. I'd just be terrified to have that offensive line try to hold up in the way that they tried to in the first game when they got behind early and obvious passing downs with a quarterback that can't move that gets a little antsy and throws it to the other team. So that's not the answer to all of this, but sometimes you can get people running past the run play on third and eight and get yourself to a fourth and three.

29:20And I actually feel more confident about converting a fourth and three at the middle of the field than I do about dropping back on third and eight and possibly getting a sack or interception. You need to create some hesitation on the part of these Green Bay linebackers. especially because I you know I don't be moments when they blitz them because teams have had success doing that against Detroit too but yeah they do have to find a way to run the ball I think just under center outside zone to Jameer Gibbs is not it against this defense I'm taking Green Bay here but it's close I don't know I like Green Bay too it's in Detroit all right let's take a quick break come back and talk about the other two games smalls here if you're heading into summer without a medical emergency kit you're taking a risk most people don't think about until it's too late summer colds can turn into sinus infections that last weeks ruining your perfect vacation getaway and when you're traveling finding a doctor and a pharmacy it's stressful that's why i ordered a medical emergency kit it's like having an urgent care and a pharmacy at home it includes prescriptions like amoxicillin and generic z-pack to treat a wide range of illnesses.

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31:45Built for visionaries, ready to stop operating and start automating their success. Service Titan, AI for the trades. All right, we're back. Chiefs, Cowboys. Both teams coming off of very impressive wins. Cowboys defense has been very good post-trade, but one could argue that they haven't been tested. Cowboys, Chiefs offense coming off of a very impressive finish versus Indianapolis. Let's start there. um so the chiefs ran the ball really well on indianapolis last two weeks versus the raiders and the eagles the cowboys have gone from before the trade for williams 30th in yards before contact per carry to first league wide that said the raiders are maybe the worst run game in the NFL and the Eagles not much better this year.

32:43So I guess my question for you is, do you think if you're the chiefs, you have success running the ball on this team, or are you scared of this new look Cowboys defense at all? I mean, I think, yeah, that's a, it's a fun, I hadn't even considered the predicament that the, that the chiefs are in because they ran the ball well last week in one, and they've been being criticized for not running the ball and they're going up against a team that we're not sure is I mean we know they're better at run defense but we're not sure is good at run defense um you obviously I think have to test them but I'd be concerned if I were the Chiefs uh with trailing like with what like the whole game I'd be concerned about what we're going to do to stop the opposing offense so I think you certainly would try but I think that they would feel much more confident trying to attack through the air because the Iberflues like system is much more like zone focused and and Patrick Mahomes and those receivers and Kelsey are I'm playing man I'm playing bad you brought me to my next point here so so last week they played zone is the Eagles you know uh but before that you'd seen a little bit more man coverage from the which to your point surprising because that's not what they have done historically uh so the Colts played a ton of man which we thought they would because they traded for sauce and everything.