How to Reverse Cavities & Protect Your Oral Microbiome - With Dr. Staci Whitman

22:07Dr. Staci Whitman:And now we chew for minutes a day. So we went from hours a day to minutes a day. So we've lost that form versus function debate, right? And so this has been going on for the past 12 ,000 years. And so we're truly shrinking.

22:22Shawn Stevenson:Oh my God. And we need, it's very obvious if you think about it, we need those signals to grow.

22:28Dr. Staci Whitman:Absolutely.

22:28Shawn Stevenson:Just like our muscles and bones. If we're not utilizing that system that has evolved to be able to do the action of chewing and highly sophisticated in its ability to do so, if you're basically muting the signal by not chewing on stuff. And again, this goes back to big food, as you mentioned, just making it so easy to not have to chew. Everything turns into mush so quickly.

22:51Dr. Staci Whitman:It's already pre-digested, really. You know?

22:53Shawn Stevenson:And so, you know, this is one of the things that my wife told me about growing up in Kenya. Like they would chew on sugar cane, right? Like actually having this, like, because when I heard sugar cane, I'm like, that's terrible for your teeth. But none of them have cavities, you know? It's just like these cultural things where today, and I remember like growing up and my mom babysat a lot of kids. and then, you know, having my kids, it was just normal. Some of the first foods are like those French fries from McDonald's or soggy. Put a couple of fries in the kid's hand or those little cookies, those little soft cookies or the, quote, chew toys would be like these plastic squishy things, you know.

23:33Shawn Stevenson:And in reality, maybe kids were maybe chomping down on some bones.

23:41Dr. Staci Whitman:Oh, yeah.

23:41Shawn Stevenson:You know, what do you, is that?

23:43Dr. Staci Whitman:Yeah, there's something called baby led weaning now. And again, I'm not here to advocate for how to feed your babies, but it's basically getting back to more ancestral feeding of your child, which was having them eat the food you're eating. And that does involve, you know, gnawing on, you know, this all has to be done safely. So please take this with a grain of salt and learn how to do baby led weaning, but like gnawing on a carrot or gnawing on a chicken bone. And then of course, breastfeeding too, the active breastfeeding. And form follows function. And to your point, if we don't use it, it atrophies essentially is what's happening.

24:20Dr. Staci Whitman:And unfortunately, this isn't a quick fix. You can't just go start feeding your kids chicken and having them gnaw on the bone. And it's going to course correct 12 ,000 years of disevolution. There is a book, I find this also interesting. So if people are interested, there's a book called Breath by James Nestor that goes deep into this. And it will really explain a lot more about how we've lost the art of breathing. We've just forgotten to breathe. And once you realize this and understand it, you will see it everywhere. I mean, you cannot go to an airport or an amusement park and not look around and realize, wow, no one's breathing optimally.

25:01Dr. Staci Whitman:And the kids just look so sick because they're not breathing well. I mean, and there's all kinds of other reasons for this too, but it's one of the reasons we're seeing such chronic disease issues. And it's something I'm really passionate about because if we identify it in a child early, ideally to me, that means before the age of 10, certainly before their face is done growing, I like to start much earlier as many functional dentists do. You can do retainers and things to help grow that face big and wide again. And that can like change the trajectory of your child's life just by giving them a retainer for maybe a couple of years.

25:38Dr. Staci Whitman:And there's all kinds of different appliances out there that will do this. And all hope isn't lost for adults either. They're doing really cool things with adults too. So again, I mean, we speak so much about optimizing and nutrition and exercise and supplements and all these things. But I really believe if you're not breathing well and not getting restored at night, a lot of those things will not have the impact that you want them to have because your foundation is off.

26:04Shawn Stevenson:When you think about anti-aging, you need to think about antioxidants. Antioxidants from your nutrition help to neutralize one of the known culprits of aging called reactive oxygen species. These are potentially harmful molecules that can damage your cells, create DNA mutations, and increase your risk of a variety of diseases. Now, how the antioxidants in your food are measured is using the ORAC scale or the oxygen radical absorbance capacity. And to support your mission of longevity, performance, good health, and blocking all of the actions of those reactive oxygen species, we need to tune ourselves to some of the highest ORAC scale foods ever discovered.

26:50Shawn Stevenson:We want to get more bang for our buck and look no further than acai. Acai has a ORAC value of 103 ,000. So what does that mean in everyday terms? It means that it has about 10 times more antioxidants than most of the best fruits that you find in your produce aisle. Acai is powerful, but it's also been proven to actually be highly usable by the human body. A study published in the Journal of Agriculture and Food Chemistry found that acai actually raised participants' antioxidant levels, demonstrating how effectively that it is absorbed by the human body. So that's just one of these super powerful sources of antioxidants.

27:36Shawn Stevenson:Now, what if you combine it with another powerhouse like beets? Beets are a phenomenal source of antioxidants, but I don't know about you, but a lot of people are not out here eating beets. But the juice specifically from beets has been found, according to the Journal of Applied Physiology, to boost our stamina up to 16 % during exercise. And participants even experience less fatigue post-exercise. Now I get a therapeutic amount of acai, beets, blueberries, pomegranates, cherry adaptogens like cordyceps and more in the incredible Organifi Red Juice Blend. It's all organic and it tastes amazing.

28:22Shawn Stevenson:Kids love this blend as well. And it's a powerhouse source of antioxidants and other important nutrients for human health and vitality. Now I've been utilizing Organifi's red juice for years. It's one of my favorite things to use and also to travel with as well to get a healthy dose of immune system supporting antioxidants and other nutrients. And so right now, when you go to Organifi.com forward slash model, you're going to get 20 % off of their incredible red juice blend. All right. That's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I.com forward slash model for 20 % off site-wide. So head over there, check them out. Now back to the show.

29:07Wow.

29:08Shawn Stevenson:That's so obvious. Now that you said this, like I'm having such an aha moment just on, this is the primary nutrient that we need. We have to be able to breathe. There's so much conversation, obviously about exercise and, you know, and, and what we're eating, but this goes back as well, you know, having time to not eat, just to go back to your point about, um, the environment in the mouth and the acidity and our, our body knows what to do to reach homeostasis and to sort things out, but it needs a little bit of time after we eat something. And every time we have an input, it's creating that chemistry to try to deal with, you know, that couple, you know, whatever handful of chips or whatever you just threw in there.

29:51Shawn Stevenson:And so would you suggest having intentional, you know, if somebody's found themselves to be more of a grazer and snacker, if I see it, I eat it a little bit of like some micro fasts in the day, you know, when you eat something, just give yourself a couple of hours before you throw something back in there. And that having the potential to help with the oral microbiome, to help with cavitations and just all the things we've already talked about.

30:18Dr. Staci Whitman:Yeah, absolutely. So I love people to eat on a schedule. And I really do believe in intuitive eating, but we've been hijacked, you know, with some of these foods. So you will find that patients who only eat a minimal amount of times a day, maybe they just eat breakfast, lunch, and dinner, the non-snacker group, they tend not to get cavities. So you really do want to give your mouth about two hours of rest if you can. And this includes your kids. I do have some strategies, so don't panic. But, you know, so like breakfast at 8 a.m., maybe a snack at 10 a.m., lunch at noon, afternoon snack around 3, we have dinner around 5.30 or 6, and maybe a bedtime snack too.

31:03Dr. Staci Whitman:Now, of course, what you're eating matters, which is why I like protein forward. Yes, and ideally whole foods and all of these things. But sometimes that's not always possible for every human. And if we are going to be eating these snack foods, particularly with your kids, don't let them just eat out of the bag. Like serve them a serving, put it in a cup or a bowl, have them sit and mindfully eat that snack until the bowl's empty and then it's done. Because otherwise you just don't, if you're snacking and grazing all day, you also don't realize how many calories you're getting in. I mean, it can really sneak up on you.

31:41Dr. Staci Whitman:You can get an extra 500 ,000 calories pretty easily just by those handfuls. And you'd be surprised if you track that, you know. So it has so many profound impacts that way. But I do, yes, I like to eat on a schedule. And I'm not a huge advocate of the continuous snacking. And I think you'll find significant health improvements once you make that small tweak. The other strategy though, is if you are out and about and you eat a snack and maybe let's say your kid does get a bunch of crackers, goldfish crackers, which are my nemesis, but I understand it happens. Offer them then so you can like food pair stack.

32:21Dr. Staci Whitman:So do the cracker first and then offer like a slice of crunchy apple or cucumber or carrot because that act of chewing, and this goes back to the sugar cane, chewing, it stimulates saliva and it's going to help wash away a lot of that food. And your saliva has calcium and phosphorus in it, which is remineralizing. And this is probably why they didn't have a lot of decay from the sugar cane because all that chewing, there was so much saliva just washing that sugar away. you know, and then it was just being ingested. So it wasn't sticking on the teeth. The consistency of our food matters a lot too.

32:59Dr. Staci Whitman:And that's why if a child comes to me at my office and says, but Dr. Stacey, like, what can I eat? That's a treat. I would much rather have them eat like a piece of chocolate or a popsicle or ice cream than a sticky brownie or like a packaged cookie. and why is that? It's the texture. Because those, you know, a popsicle doesn't stick to your teeth, but one of those store-bought packaged cookies, like think about eating a bunch of Oreos. They're like all throughout your teeth. So, you know, pairing your food. So you're eating something crunchy after, obviously water. Xylitol gum is a nice trick.

33:37Dr. Staci Whitman:If you're out and about, throw in a piece of gum for a few minutes just to help stimulate your saliva. Again, it's the spit. The spit is so important. And then it will help wash away those food particles until that evening when we hope you do brush and floss.

33:52Shawn Stevenson:Amazing.

33:52Dr. Staci Whitman:Yeah.

33:54Shawn Stevenson:You just mentioned the xylitol gum. All right. So I want to ask you about some practical things that people can do. And as you mentioned, you know, especially if you catch it early, if there's the kind of onset of cavities or stages. Can you talk a little bit about that and also how we can potentially help for cavities to resolve on their own?

34:18Dr. Staci Whitman:Because I know, especially in early stages, there's, and this is what you do.

34:23Shawn Stevenson:You know, you've seen it yourself firsthand again and again, but we have a lot of evidence on this being able to be something that we can heal, like your teeth can heal. and, you know, keeping that in mind, can you again, walk us through the stages of cavitations? And then also what can we do proactively for ourselves to help our teeth in case we have some early onset of some cavities?

34:48Dr. Staci Whitman:Yeah, this is great. This is actually what I do. Cause a lot, a large part of my practice is being very conservative and trying to arrest or remineralized teeth. So it's important, number one, I like people to be working with a dentist because some of these things are very nuanced and we do sometimes need x-rays to understand how big or deep the cavity is. So if we see a surface level cavity or one that's kind of shallow, low, that can very likely be remineralized. So your teeth are constantly demineralizing and remineralizing all day. Every time you eat or drink something aside from water, that's a natural process because it's part of the digestive system.

35:35Dr. Staci Whitman:Okay. You start to eat, the pH drops to help break up your food and the enzymes come in like glycozyme to help pre-digest your food before you swallow it and send it on its way. So that pH drop is important. That's part of digestion. But if we give our mouth a break, as we spoke about, ideally a couple of hours is my time that I like to see, your saliva will naturally buffer and neutralize and raise that pH back up. And in that process, the minerals in your saliva get pushed back into your teeth. and so your teeth remineralize. So again, this process is happening all day long if you're in homeostasis, as you mentioned.

36:18Dr. Staci Whitman:But what's happening is we're not in homeostasis. We tend to live in acidity. So you're pulling out more minerals than you're putting back in. So what can you do? One, being aware of it. Now you understand the process. So that helps, I think, a lot. Like sometimes just by simply eating more on a schedule, you're going to already shift your health back into balance. And definitely drinking more water, making sure you're mineral optimized. So many of our foods are mineral deficient. So, you know, I do like to consider magnesium supplementation. Are you on a high quality trace mineral? You know, so many people use a reverse osmosis for their water.

36:59Dr. Staci Whitman:That water has mineral void. So we need to be getting more minerals back into the diet. And then fat soluble vitamins. How many people on this planet are vitamin D deficient or not getting enough vitamin K or vitamin A? Those things are very important for dental health. So we start nutritionally, making sure you're optimized there. But what are strategies? So if the cavity is still in the enamel, there are things that we can do, aside from changing diet and hydration, minerals, etc., to remineralize it. And there are products that can help. And so it's kind of a one-two punch. You want to kill the bad bacteria as much as you can or reduce their pathogenic load.

37:40Dr. Staci Whitman:And then you want to push minerals back in. So how do we kill bacteria? We want to be cautious not overusing these strong antiseptics like the Listerine rinses and those things just carpet bomb. But there are more gentle approaches. Some people are using iodine. Some people are using ozone. So I like ozone oil that can be used. and you literally can, you know, if it's an in-between cavity, you can put it on your floss and just floss it in between and spit, but don't rinse. And you do that one night. And then the next night we want to think about, well, how do I get minerals back into the teeth?

38:15Dr. Staci Whitman:My saliva is optimized, but what else? Well, this is where different toothpaste can come in. And so there's something called hydroxyapatite, which is an active ingredient that is calcium and phosphorus. It's biomimetic. Your teeth have hydroxyapatite in them. Your saliva has hydroxyapatite all throughout it right now. It is what we need to remineralize our teeth. And so that can be found in various toothpaste and that can help remineralize teeth. You know, some people choose to use fluoride. The interesting thing with fluoride, it doesn't actually remineralize teeth. It creates a barrier on the outside of the tooth that creates like an armor.

38:54Dr. Staci Whitman:so that you can't get further penetration into the lesion, but you probably will still always see the lesion. It almost like walls it off and it can make your teeth more acid resistant, which is great, but it doesn't actually remineralize. There's something called theobromine, which is in cacao and that remineralizes. And then xylitol actually, it won't remineralize, but it does impact the oral microbiome in a really positive way. And so that can help too. And a lot of times we need kind of a combination of some of these modalities. And this is where it is nice to work with a functional dentist.

39:30Dr. Staci Whitman:But if we're, you know, making these small changes, diet, optimizing nutrition, maybe some tweaks to our hygiene, I can't overemphasize flossing enough. And then trying to use some of these products, you can have a lot of success. And I avoid a lot of fillings and anesthesia in kids because of this. And I'll just go back to the flossing quickly. why do I love flossing so much? It's because of our diet. Those crackers and chips and pretzels, they get wedged in between your teeth. And if you aren't flossing, they will sit there day after day after day, whether you feel them or not. And they're feeding that pathogenic bacteria that's releasing acid and you very well may get an eventual hole in your tooth.

40:15Dr. Staci Whitman:And we see a lot of cavities between teeth, especially in kids who are constantly snacking. So if you're eating these foods, if you choose to eat these ultra processed foods, you have to be flossing. You have to be, it has to be a non-negotiable. Wow.

40:29Shawn Stevenson:Thank you for that. There's so many good things there. And when you mentioned cacao, by the way, and I think about the real plant itself, when you cut it open, it looks like a bunch of teeth.

40:39Dr. Staci Whitman:Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's so funny. Yeah.

40:42Shawn Stevenson:It's like that doctrine of signatures, you know, nature's telling you like, this might be good for your smile.

40:46Dr. Staci Whitman:Hey guys over here. Yeah. But that's like the fruit, you know,

40:50Shawn Stevenson:if you think about it, there's like a fruit around the chocolate bean. Um, wow. That's so fascinating. And again, it's, there isn't a, what I'm already hearing. There isn't like this one trick pony. It's like a comprehensive thing, stack conditions in your favor. And thank you for sharing about hydroxy appetite. And so wasn't that discovered like by NASA or something like

41:11Dr. Staci Whitman:that yeah yeah so they realized when astronauts went up any gravity causes you to lose minerals and so how are we going to push minerals back into the astronauts they created this toothpaste for them because their teeth were not doing so well up in up in space and so um it was created in the 1970s and it essentially it's calcium and phosphorus okay it's what we already have in our saliva and in our teeth. And then Japan caught wind of it. And they're the ones that started the toothpaste revolution in the early 80s. Apigard was the first one and they patented it. And then South Korea jumped on board.

41:49Dr. Staci Whitman:So their health ministries have approved it. And then it kind of spread to Europe. The Italians really loved it. It's kind of all throughout Europe now. And then the SCCS, which is the Scientific Committee for Consumer Safety, evaluated it fairly recently and deemed it safe for consumer use when following certain criteria. And now you're seeing it more and more in the United States. And of course, the FDA hasn't spoken

42:13Shawn Stevenson:about it yet, but no surprise.

42:15Dr. Staci Whitman:Yeah.

42:16Shawn Stevenson:And the same thing holds true when it comes to, you know, fluoride regulation. You know, a lot of countries are definitely not putting it in the water supply and you know but seeing it used in places like japan for example as some kind of a rinse like a topical thing but the ingestion of fluoride is a problem i've been talking about this for 20 years

42:41Dr. Staci Whitman:have you god bless you years all right way before politics right right why is it political all of a sudden i've been speaking about it forever too the main thing was just like again informed consent

42:52Shawn Stevenson:This isn't like putting some vitamin C into the water supply. Like this has notable metabolic impacts and impacts on the brain and cognition and all these other things just like, and it's been known literally for decades and just now kind of, I mean, there's more, and I, I'm grateful for the time we're living in where information is so easy to spread quickly and litigation can happen. But we still have a lot to learn. We still have a lot to do, you know, with regulation, in particular with flora. Can you talk about this? Because, again, you being a traditionally trained dentist, that was one of the things.

43:33Shawn Stevenson:And I like one of my friends, she was the vice president of the American Dental Association, ADA.

43:41Dr. Staci Whitman:Wow.

43:42Shawn Stevenson:For a hot minute. And, you know, like her and her husband, chiropractor, functional practitioner. he's just like, you know, he's very anti-fluoride. And she was just like, no, there's no science. This is like what we were taught. And so, you know, so what's the deal with fluoride? What were you taught in school and where are you at today?

44:04Dr. Staci Whitman:Oh man, I have so much to say. So I was traditionally trained as every dentist was, and I was a huge proponent of fluoride. And you get fluoride and you get fluoride and everybody needs fluoride. You need it topically. you need it in your toothpaste, you need it in your rinses. I need the varnish on your teeth twice a year when you come to see me, it needs to be in the water. It needs to be everywhere. Okay. And what's so funny, I practice in Portland, Oregon. We do not fluoridate our water there. It just doesn't get voted in. And keep Portland weird. You know, that's what people say. But I'm happy about it in hindsight, but it's important for people to know.

44:44Dr. Staci Whitman:So the last time it was on the ballot was 2012. And I was volunteering for the pro fluoride side. And I was picketing and handing out buttons and stickers. And I was mad when people said, we don't need it. And I would say, just what that woman said, no, there's no science. We need this tin hat brigade. They don't know what they're talking about. I'm the dentist. I know what I'm talking about. I was trained. So I sat in on a debate and it was the pro versus the quote unquote anti. I don't like that description, but anyway, those who have concerns with it. And I walked in with a chip on my shoulder thinking these guys are going to be wing nuts and like woo woo.

45:31Dr. Staci Whitman:And I sat there and they gave the most impressive discussion, science-based about things I never knew of, like what the possible ramifications can be with ingesting fluoride. And it's important in this conversation, we really do need to separate topical fluoride from systemic. And that means toothpaste and rinses versus in our water and supplementation. Okay. And so I, my mouth was agape. I felt like I had been gut punched and I literally went home very conflicted and started rabbit holing. And it doesn't take long to hop on NIH or PubMed and start to question, whoa, thyroid issues, bone health issues, neurotoxicity, gut microbiome issues, because fluoride's antimicrobial and you're swallowing it.

46:28Dr. Staci Whitman:What is it doing to the gut microbiome. So the other issue, so over time, I very much, I am opposed to water fluoridation. I think it can be used topically. We also know, and I did learn this in school, that fluoride really works topically, not systemically. You don't need to be ingesting it for it to work. And to your point earlier, almost 90%, 97 % of the world doesn't fluoridate their water. The United States is one of the last main big developed countries that does this. And in Japan, the decay rate's very low and they always will fight back and say, yeah, but look at their diet and they eat healthier.

47:12Dr. Staci Whitman:Okay, fair, but they do have a program where they're using fluoride rinses in school. And maybe that's what we should be implementing here. Like just getting this topical fluoride more accessible for people. I still personally don't use any fluoride products, but I get that's a big leap right now because accessibility to hydroxyapatite and theobromine and these things, it's tricky. Okay. So that's why I can't be a purist in my discussions, but I will focus on water fluoridation. And the big issue with water fluoridation, there's a few. So to your point, yes, we are essentially mass medicating a population without their consent.

47:51Dr. Staci Whitman:And I think that is very wrong. I think people should at least understand what the potential side effects could be. And then now that you know this, do you still want fluoride in your water? The other thing is we're not factoring in the halo effect. So you may drink one glass of water a day. I might drink two gallons because I'm like marathon training or doing something insane. So I'm getting much more fluoride than you are. Plus what's my body weight? What's my composition? you know my body weight composition how am i metabolizing and detoxifying do i have detox pathway issues um you know maybe i have gene snips etc so that's an issue but also fluoride is in so many ultra processed foods so if you are eating a can of soup or drinking gatorade that is made at a factory with fluoridated water there is fluoride in that product so how much are you getting there.

48:50Dr. Staci Whitman:It's also in pharmaceuticals. Most people don't realize there is fluoride in Prilosec and SSRIs. It's considered like a stabilizer. So a lot of people are getting the most amount of fluoride from their prescription drugs every day. And so at what point, you know, everyone will say the dose makes the poison. Fair enough. But how do you know what the dose is? How much is someone getting a day? And then you have kids who are swallowing the toothpaste, swallowing their rinses. And it's just, it's in excess. And there are enough stuff. I don't think the burden of proof needs to be, you know, proving to me that it's not safe.

49:36Dr. Staci Whitman:You prove to me it is safe. And then we don't have that safety data. And if anyone tells you we do, they are wrong, period. They are wrong. And I will debate them. The other thing is, we are not following the EPA's own guidelines. So the EPA was on trial for the, there was a federal trial, the TASCA trial. And the EPA expert was asked by Michael Conant, the lead attorney. And it was essentially the people versus the EPA. And the people are saying, hey, we don't want fluoride our water anymore. It's not safe. Proves to us it's safe. So this EPA fellow said, well, when asked, what's the window or margin of safety for flora?

50:21Dr. Staci Whitman:And he answered 10X. So that means we should be fluoridating, you know, at a 10X range to protect the vulnerable. So if we know this level is safe, we should be fluoridating 10 times lower than that. Okay. That's the margin of safety. And most people are agreeing that at 1.5 milligrams per liter, 1.5, there are issues. But we are fluoridating almost five times that amount based on 10X, okay? Five times that amount. And so why? Who are the vulnerable population? It's the pregnant women, it's infants and babies who are getting formula with fluoridated water. It's the toddlers and the young children, brain development, patients with calcium deficiency, patients with iodine deficiency, kidney disease, patients who are genetically predisposed to being sensitive to fluoride.

51:24Dr. Staci Whitman:I mean, there are fluoride allergies. So it's a pretty wide range of the population that we should be protecting, but we're not. And so we just, we're treating everyone the same. we're treating everyone the same regardless of their age weight you know genetic genetic makeup and that's just it's just ridiculous i think it's ridiculous it's like where's the common sense right it's not common it's not common and so and then i you know i get pushed back on this a lot so i know all the arguments they'll say yeah but access to care and they can't get fluoride toothpaste you can get fluoride toothpaste at the dollar store i mean can we get toilet paper can we get i understand that is an important conversation but fluoride toothpaste is readily available and then the other thing is we are missing the elephant in the room which is big food that's the issue so we're masking it essentially with a pharmaceutical because we can't keep up with the disease because of an industry that is poisoning us essentially and not being held responsible for it.

52:31Dr. Staci Whitman:So, I mean, not to be dramatic, but like root cause, what's the real issue here? And my other argument would be if water fluoridation was so damn successful, why are cavities still the top chronic disease in the United States when 70 % of our population has fluoridated water? That doesn't make any sense. It's not working. And so the The Cochrane report, the most recent Cochrane report came out in 2024. And it said that fluoridation doesn't work like we thought it did. And it isn't even statistically significant, the cavity reduction that's happening. But you will see mainstream media and the American Dental Association, they are not referencing the 2024 Cochrane.

53:17They reference the 2015 Cochrane, which says it reduces decay rate by 25%.

53:23Dr. Staci Whitman:That's old news. Okay. We need to be following the data and the science that's most recent. And of course, anything new that comes out, they'll pick it apart and say, yeah, but this faulty studies, et cetera. So I don't know. I think ultimately patients should have a choice. Humans should have a choice. All these people should be able to choose. If you want fluoride in your life, you can use fluoride toothpaste. You can use rinses. You can ask for it at the dentist and then focus on all the things we talked about. but I don't think it should be in our water. It has no business being there.

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55:40Shawn Stevenson:So much of these benefits seen in these peer-reviewed studies are due to the incredible concentrations of polyphenols that are found in Pu-erh. And the only Pu-erh that I drink is triple toxin screened for purity. It uses a patented cold extraction technology and it's wild harvested, making it even more abundant in polyphenols. The Pu-erh that I'm talking about, and again, it's the only Pu-erh tea that I drink is from the incredible folks at Peak Life. Go to peaklife.com forward slash model and you're going to get up to 20 % off. Plus they're going to hook you up with a free starter kit that includes an electric frother with some of my favorite bundles and my favorite teas over at Peak Life.

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57:15Shawn Stevenson:But looking at this connection, you know, because when we think about metabolism, we might think about things like, you know, insulin. And, you know, you mentioned earlier, inflammation has a big part to play in this conversation around metabolism. So I want to touch on that, but also look upstairs because the most metabolically active part of our bodies is our brain, right? Our brain is maybe 2 % of our body's mass, consumes about 20 % of the calories we consume. It's just like a hungry, hungry ordinary. So there's so much happening as far as metabolism is concerned when it comes to the human brain.

57:57Shawn Stevenson:And I know for certain, it's just one of those things. We don't connect our oral health to our brain at all. And they are intimately connected. So talk about the relationship, a little bit more inflammation, maybe some of the things we tie more to metabolism, like insulin maybe.

58:16Dr. Staci Whitman:Yeah.

58:16Shawn Stevenson:And then also what about brain health and our oral health as well? Yeah.

58:21Dr. Staci Whitman:Great questions. Yeah. I mean, they're literally neighbors. Your mouth is right next to your brain. Yeah. The diabetes connection and the insulin resistance is very important. It's bidirectional. So inflamed gums can be one of the first signs of prediabetes. And it's kind of that chicken or the egg issue is the inflammation in the gums leading to, you know, the insulin resistance, the metabolic issues or vice versa. But I'll never forget where I really started putting this together. I had a mom reach out to me, this child kept coming in with decay. And we just really couldn't figure out what was going on.

59:00Dr. Staci Whitman:And he ended up being diagnosed with diabetes. And then I started researching like, well, it makes sense. His saliva had more sugar in it, had more glucose in it, because his body had more glucose in it, because his pancreas wasn't working. So something to think about, you know, again, our saliva really tells us a lot of information. And so the inflammation in the gums can create inflammation throughout the body, but also it's the bacteria too. So if we have pathogenic bacteria, they can translocate. We swallow them, we breathe them in. But if your gums bleed, and I love to say this, if you see pink in the sink, you have inflammation in your mouth and you best pay attention.

59:49Dr. Staci Whitman:If any other part of your body was just bleeding every day, wouldn't you be concerned? But yet we normalize that our gums bleed. So if your gums bleed, now the bacteria in your mouth can get into your circulatory system and they can travel all around and end up in end stage organs that they shouldn't, you know. Including your brain. Including your brain. They also can travel on your nerves. and they are crossing the blood brain barrier. And so there are studies that show we are finding oral bacteria, specifically P. gingivalis in the brain of patients that have passed from Alzheimer's disease.

1:00:28Dr. Staci Whitman:And they have no business being there. They're meant to be in the mouth. And they have, people will push back and say, yeah, but patients with Alzheimer's or dementia tend to lose their hygiene. And that is true, but they have all those confounding variables were accounted for in the studies that they did. And they had, you know, control groups. So that's concerning. And that can create inflammation in the brain, they're not supposed to be there. So it triggers an immune response. On top of that, these pathogens release endotoxins. So not only are they, they themselves creating inflammation, but they're releasing byproducts that create further inflammation and tissue destruction around them.

1:01:10Dr. Staci Whitman:And this is where the links to cancer are coming in. So we're seeing F nucleatum is a bacteria specifically being linked to colon cancer and pancreatic cancer. And how would you know this until it's end stage? And this is where I really believe in salivary diagnostics. So you spit, you send it off. Two weeks later, you get your results. And do you have some of these keystone pathogens? Imagine if we could catch that in people's 20s and 30s, like we could prevent a lot of these end stage diseases in their 40s, 50s, 60s, potentially. So yes, I mean, we need to think of it as a two-way street. And what happens in the mouth doesn't stay in the mouth.

1:01:53Dr. Staci Whitman:But these bacteria end up in places they don't and they are being linked and tied to Alzheimer's and dementia. I mean, that's enough to get me to floss every day. That's it. Like brain health to me is so important. So if you're not flossing and you just can't find a reason to do it, please think about your brain. Fertility too. I mean, we know women who have gum disease. There've been studies that show they can take several months longer to conceive and the inflammation and the metabolites can impact sperm mobility, sperm motility. So it's both partners, okay? So gum inflammation, gum disease, periodontal disease needs to be taken very seriously because it can lead to so many other issues in the body heart disease and arthritis and diabetes as you mentioned before i mean the list as i mentioned 57 different diseases are being cross-linked back to oral bacteria so um and certainly it might not be you have this oral bacteria you're going to get that issue but it it, it, it contributes to it.

1:02:58And imagine if we could just keep our mouths healthy,

1:03:01Dr. Staci Whitman:that's just one less risk factor for some of these other things.

1:03:05Shawn Stevenson:Yeah. We have to stop separating our mouth from the rest of our body, you know, bottom line. And also when you mentioned the pink in the sink, so can you just do a quick note on the context around flossing? Because I think if somebody's not flossing regularly or they just started flossing, they might cause a little bleeding and just, you know, and, and not be able to associate the two. But what I find is that consistently floss, that just goes away after, you know, maybe a week of you flossing consistently.

1:03:34Dr. Staci Whitman:That's exactly right. I find in seven to 10 days, maybe 14, it usually goes away. Great point. Yeah. So if you haven't been flossing and you start doing it, you may see a lot of blood and a lot of red and a lot of pink in the sink. that's called leaky gums so we've heard of leaky gut leaky gums are the same it's very similar um and so now bacteria and dysphorium debris things are getting into your system that shouldn't so we want nice healthy tissue it's a barrier it's a protective barrier from the outside world into our body that includes your gums so um i describe it this way if you have just picked up guitar for the first time and you start playing, your fingers are raw.

1:04:20Dr. Staci Whitman:Or I say this to my kid patients. I'm like, you know, you go on the monkey bars in the spring and your hands get raw, but after you do it for a few days, a few weeks, they get calloused. So it's gonna be the same with your gums. So if you're just starting this habit, yep, you play guitar. Monkey. Oh, you're hanging. You're doing your hangs.

1:04:40Shawn Stevenson:Yeah, just did some pull-ups yesterday.

1:04:42Dr. Staci Whitman:Yeah, so you know. So it takes a little time, but not that much time. So be patient, be patient. But, you know, if you feel like you have pretty good hygiene, and you do floss and your gums still bleed after you've been flossing for a long time, we needed a date deeper. Why is that? Are there hormone imbalances? Do you have vitamin C deficiency? Do you have zinc deficiency, B vitamin deficiencies? Why are your gums bleeding? Why are your tissues so fragile? Is there a certain bacteria in your mouth that we need to try to help reduce or eliminate too. So, but I think I joke, but I really am not joking.

1:05:21Dr. Staci Whitman:If someone said you have to, you're going to go to a desert island and you can get an ultimate lifetime supply of floss or toothbrushes, I would always pick the floss. I would always pick the floss because your tongue can clean your teeth for you to some degree. And then especially if you're eating a more, let's say paleo diet, you really shouldn't have much plaque or biofilm because you're not feeding those pathogens. But we do want to be making sure our gums stay really strong and resistant.

1:05:51Shawn Stevenson:Amazing. You know, having you here, I get to ask stuff that I think about. And, you know, our teeth, from my perspective, are something that we really tie to like aesthetics and beauty, you know, and right or wrong. And I think, of course, could be a sign of health in some ways but also it's it gets to a point potentially of dysfunction i was just watching with my wife last night this america's next top model uh documentary and there's like parts where and spoiler alert there and she used to watch it apparently this was right before we met each other i guess it was like 2002 2003 when it came out we met in like the end of 2004 and so she was like you don't understand i watched so much of this and i'm just like oh okay and it was crazy it was it's crazy but anyways there's um one of the early seasons where basically they demand that one of the contestants goes and gets her gap closed right and this the show started off by being something to uplift different uh different expressions of what beauty can be right not having this kind of perfect societally determined perfect uh identity as a model and so anyways you know the the young woman is today now she's speaking out about it she's in the in the documentary as well sharing her experience and another uh young lady at the time she went in because she had some crowding and she i think they took out like four teeth right there and this is like a grown woman she's like maybe 20 21 and she's going on to this show to you know become a model and they ended up like taking her teeth out it's crazy and she was beat up.

1:07:48Shawn Stevenson:Like she looked a mess afterwards as one would. But with all that being said, you know, just seeing the hyper-focus on aesthetics and teeth looking a certain way and being quote perfect can get us, I think, to make some decisions. And also the field of dentistry using that as a tool to do more stuff. Right. And obviously our dentist overall, all wonderful individuals. We talked about this, getting into the field with a desire to be of service and to help people. But there's always going to be those individuals who are like really looking at how can I systematically be able to make more money doing this thing, even if it doesn't need to be done.

1:08:34Shawn Stevenson:I'm saying all this to say, there's two things I want to ask you about. Number one, I think the most glaring, this is another little pun in there, example of beauty would be teeth being white, right? And so I want to ask you about natural ways to support our teeth being whiter, but not abnormally white, because I think that's weird too. You know, you see somebody like, and shout out to the goat, Michael Jordan, okay? He's the goat. In this documentary, his eyes are like, he's got all this brown basically over time in his eyes and his teeth are like whiter than, I don't even know, I know the way you're talking about.

1:09:15Shawn Stevenson:And it's just like, that doesn't look right. It makes your teeth look, you know, unnatural. So what are some natural things people can do to support the whitening in a healthy way of their teeth? And then we'll take it from there.

1:09:29Dr. Staci Whitman:Okay. Yes. So this is the internet and social media at it, the desire to have this unrealistic aesthetic. So first, I think it's so important to feel good about yourself, you know, and that's going to be different for everyone. And I agree with you, the smile, it tells so much about the person. It's kind of, it's the gateway into the soul in a lot of ways, the eyes and the smile. and it's sensual and it's how we communicate to each other. It's really important. And you think about how hard it would be to be out in the world and get a job if you were missing your front teeth. You know, like we really do attach a lot to it and a lot of self-esteem and speech.

1:10:17Dr. Staci Whitman:A lot of the sounds we make, we use our teeth and chewing. If you don't have teeth, you can't chew and swallow your food. They're very important. But we do tend to think of dentistry as aesthetics. I agree with you. And it's getting worse. I think we've set unrealistic expectations for ourselves with what is the perfect smile, the Hollywood smile, and what white teeth are. So teeth are not meant to be white. They're actually a little bit yellow. And that will vary from patient to patient and person to person. So I understand people want white teeth, but just know that this excessive bleaching that you're doing, it can be damaging to your microbiome.

1:11:04Dr. Staci Whitman:I mean, they are bleaches. I mean, you're using like various peroxides and things that is going to impact your microbiome. But also over time, that can create enamel damage to your tooth and potentially nerve damage. And I see these kids on TikTok just basically chugging. They're not swallowing it, but hydrogen peroxide every single day and their teeth are blindingly white like MJ's and it's just too much. And then I just think, gosh, I hope you don't need root canals in the future. And like, what else is going on with your microbiome? So, and then the veneer thing too, like everyone's getting veneers and just knowing I'm not opposed to veneers, but you just need to have informed consent.

1:11:51Dr. Staci Whitman:Like, do you, are you, do you, are you aware of the risks? So anytime you put a filling or crown or veneer in your mouth, it's going to shift the microbiome. You're now creating margins. As good as your dentist is, it will not be as good as your natural tooth ever. And so there's going to be a margin of that veneer that bacteria can cling to. And can that cause problems over time? You know, it can, especially depending on your diet. And then also important to know nothing in dentistry lasts forever, nothing. so it all needs to be replaced at some point and it could be in five years you might need new veneers in 15 years you might need new veneers so every time you're going in what are those procedures doing to your underlying dental health like you know we were drilling away a little more healthy tooth structure and now there's you know a new new product in your mouth essentially so So more natural things to do.

1:12:48Dr. Staci Whitman:Number one, I would say you could go in more regularly for cleanings. Okay, just the polishing cleaning, because that really will help brighten and whiten your teeth. Nanohydroxyapatite has been shown in the data to brighten and whiten teeth because it fills in microporosity. So it's the way the light reflects and refracts. It just looks brighter and shinier. So it's not going to bleach it, but it will make your teeth look brighter. on coconut oil. So lauric acid is a mild acid. And so it can remove surface level stains too. And there's actually some mild acids and strawberries as well. I caution people to please be careful with the charcoal toothpaste that are, they're kind of phasing out, I feel like now, but they're very abrasive.

1:13:34Dr. Staci Whitman:So why do your teeth get wider after using this? You're literally scraping away the surface of your enamel and that's permanent. That doesn't come back. so be very careful they're just they're too harsh um you know being cautious with your tea and your coffee and your wine and these things just being aware certainly cigarette smoke is going to cause vaping is going to cause more of it more of the staining um but i think just setting realistic expectations for yourself would be my best advice um and there are cleaner bleaching companies out there. Like Lumineu is one that uses more of an herbal formulation to help brighten and whiten teeth, but you're never going to get that bright, bright, bright white without the risk of either veneers or like very strong bleaching agents too.

1:14:26Dr. Staci Whitman:So you just have to decide what's right for you. Great.

1:14:28Shawn Stevenson:Great advice. Thank you. With the coconut oil thing. So is this like swishing for a certain amount of time? Would this get into the domain of like the oil quote oil pulling?

1:14:39Dr. Staci Whitman:Essentially, yeah. Yeah, so oil pulling is an ancient Ayurvedic practice that started with sesame oil, but many people use coconut oil now. And I am a fan of it. Like I'll do it a couple of times a week usually. Just be cautious because coconut, it is slightly antimicrobial. So we just don't want to overuse antimicrobials in the mouth. We want to nourish and preserve our healthy bacteria. but it will not only just switch away, if you will, biofilm, but it can brighten and whiten and it can shift the microbiome. And patients just notice that their moses feel really good after they do it. And that's why I do it.

1:15:19Dr. Staci Whitman:Traditionally, they'll say to do it for 20 minutes. I think that's, you just can't, I can't do it for 20 minutes. So I do it for a few minutes in the morning when I think of it. So people could try it. Yeah. It's one of those things, don't knock it till you try it. And I think a lot of people like it once they start doing it, just don't spit it when you're done down your sink. So you want to use raw organic coconut oil, ideally, I mean, I just take a spoonful and let it melt in my mouth. Some people can't do that. They gag and think it's disgusting. So again, you do you. But and then it melts and you switch around.

1:15:54Dr. Staci Whitman:I do it while I'm, you know, picking out my outfit for the day and just puttering around in the morning, but just don't spit it down your sink because it will harden and coagulate again. And then you could get blocked drains and that would be bad.

1:16:07Shawn Stevenson:That would be bad. Caution. Great. This is great advice. Thank you for this. So again, looking at practices again, for the aesthetic part of not necessarily, again, creating abnormally white teeth, but you really added in the other thing I was going to ask you about, which is removing the cause of like abnormally stained teeth. And so I was going to ask you about, are there some things you said being aware, right? Coffee, various teas, wine, that kind of stuff. Is there something we could do further? Maybe just if we have a cup of coffee, make sure we rinse afterwards. And would that be just simply rinsing with some water?

1:16:51Dr. Staci Whitman:Yeah. Yes. Water's always great. Rinsing your teeth is always great with water, but you could add a little baking soda because baking soda will neutralize and buffer the acidity from your coffee. So a little sprinkle, doesn't have to be a lot. And sometimes salt, which is antiseptic. So just a pinch of salt and kind of rinse with that. those can be great strategies. The other interesting thing, a lot of times people may not like their smile because they have crowded or crooked teeth too. So just consider this. If you were to go and just get some Invisalign, if you're a good candidate or a retainer, or I understand braces is a big ask, but just hear me out.

1:17:37Dr. Staci Whitman:Sometimes if you can just straighten the teeth they don't have to be perfect but it's all light you know how does the light hit on your teeth and sometimes if your tooth's rotated you're going to see a shadow you know and so you might think your teeth look dark but if you could straighten them all out so when the light hits it reflects and refracts you might be like wow my teeth not only are straighter but they look brighter and whiter too so and then you fix the function of your bite and your smile too so something to

1:18:05Shawn Stevenson:think about also functional dentistry functional dentistry and you know we were talking about before the show about this i'm shocked that it's taken this long to have something that's more systematic and you know regimented and just cohesive when it comes to functional dentistry functional medicine has been around for a few decades now maybe what 30 plus years early 90s

1:18:29Dr. Staci Whitman:I think. Yeah.

1:18:30Shawn Stevenson:And, you know, again, separating the mouth from the body, everything is kind of getting more up to speed now. And you are really spearheading this movement to have accreditation and something that's more consistent because, you know, you might go to what you believe to be a functional dentist over here. And it's wildly different from what you might experience with someone else, you know, who's also stating that they're a functional dentist. And so can you talk Talk about that because right now you are working with some of the leading minds in dentistry to really push this movement forward, to have something that's cohesive.

1:19:07Shawn Stevenson:So can you talk about that a little bit and just what you're working on?

1:19:11Dr. Staci Whitman:Yes. Thank you for saying that too. I, that is what initiated this educational platform was that myself and some colleagues were feeling frustrated that the patients were being impacted because they didn't know who to go to. And there's different lists and directories and things out there, but there's no vetting and there's no credentialing and there's no education. It's one of those things like anyone can call themselves anything, which is unfair to the patient. Like there has to be a standardization. I'm a big believer in education and academics and amplifying and elevating your clinical practice on the latest research and data that's out there because things change a lot over the decades and the years.

1:19:59Dr. Staci Whitman:So yeah, I have some wonderful co-founders and we have co-founded the Institute for Functional Dentistry because not only did we want a standardized training platform, it's really a residency level education platform, but we wanted it based in functional medicine or systems biology, root cause medicine. And this is what dentists are really missing a lot of in dental school is like the foundational medicine. How do we connect the dots? We don't know a lot about hormone pathways or immune health or cardiometabolic health or mitochondrial health. We just don't learn about a lot of that in dental school, but it's very important.

1:20:39Shawn Stevenson:Or nutrition.

1:20:41Dr. Staci Whitman:None. Right. You're totally right. It's like medical school. Hardly any. And most oral disease is because of your food. That you're chewing on with those teeth. That's right.

1:20:51Shawn Stevenson:And it's just, that should be shocking to hear that, you know, like no training in nutrition. And this is the organ that's dealing with literally the interface with food.

1:21:00Dr. Staci Whitman:Yeah. And we have a little bit of it, but it's super basic and it's not diving deep into what does this deficiency do? How can we support this patient with different nutraceuticals? And like, there's none of that. So yeah, we launched very recently. We have our first cohort signed up, but we're really hoping to create change. And this isn't meant to be a replacement for traditional dental school. I really want to make that clear. You have to have that foundation. This is to build upon it so that we can work cohesively and collaboratively. and start looking at things differently and really helping our patients get healthy.

1:21:44Dr. Staci Whitman:And I was saying this to you earlier, I think it's really going to help the dentist too. So I myself, and perhaps people have heard me say this before, if you've heard me speak before, but I almost left dentistry. I just had had it. I was so depressed and sad. I didn't like my work. I didn't think I was helping. I was just putting out fires all day. It was like whack-a-mole and that is dentistry. Dentistry is whack-a-mole. If you don't connect to the patient and dig deep and take the time to understand the why, you're not going to fix the issue. And just throwing more fillings and crowns and root canals at it are not going to fix it.

1:22:22Dr. Staci Whitman:And this is why they're still the chronic diseases globally. So it's sad to go to bed every night and be like, I don't know if I helped anybody today, really. I helped them get out of pain, but, and you see your patients coming back sicker and sicker, and you just know intuitively a lot of it's coming from the mouth. And then you learn, oh yeah, actually a lot of it is coming from the mouth. How do I help them? And it just rejuvenated my career for me to, I became a, feel like I'm a real healer, at least in my domain and my lane, because my patients come back healthy. And then that, education, it spreads throughout families and then it spreads throughout friend groups and it spreads throughout the community.

1:23:08Dr. Staci Whitman:And just, and that's why I'm so appreciative of having these opportunities to come and speak to a larger audience, because I think so many people don't have this education about their oral health. We've just really missed the mark in teaching people how important it is and how we are overthinking it. It's just, a lot of it's the basics. And it's not just sloshing and brushing, and it's not just avoiding soda and using fluoride toothpaste. There's a lot more to it. You can be doing all of those things and still having issues. And what if we could figure out your why and get you healthy? And maybe that will help prevent a disease for you down the road, like dementia or Alzheimer's.

1:23:50Dr. Staci Whitman:I mean, that's a big deal. Yeah.

1:23:51Shawn Stevenson:So powerful. It's such a great service that you're providing for everybody. And And, you know, now to be teaching more teachers, it's just, again, we're on a mission to make good health viral, you know, and that's the possibility right now. And, you know, I appreciate you so much for coming to hang out with us. Can you share where people can follow you and just get more information?

1:24:12Dr. Staci Whitman:Yeah, absolutely. So I tend to hang out on Instagram quite a bit. So you can find me there. It's Dr. Stacey. It'll be in the show notes. I have a website, drstacey.com, and I do a newsletter that I'm very proud of. We dig deep because I know we talked about a lot, but like we could go a lot deeper on every topic we talked about and we really just scratched the surface. So I do encourage everyone to try to sign up for that newsletter if this information interests you. And then the Institute for Functional Dentistry is functionaldentistry.org. So even if you're out there listening and you're not a dentist, We also, we train hygienists, we train front desk business team, myofunctional therapists, chiropractors.

1:24:55Dr. Staci Whitman:We have different tracks for all different providers. So even if you're out there listening and you're like, you know what, my dentist is pretty open-minded. I wonder if they might be interested. Please share because we are trying to go viral. Like we really do. I don't want cavities and gum disease to be the top diseases anymore. That's ridiculous. When so many patients are seeing us twice a year, we're just not moving the needle. And so we're clearly missing the mark. So I just ask for help, help us spread the message. Yeah.

1:25:26Shawn Stevenson:Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for doing this work. Thank you for stepping up. And I'm here to support you for sure.

1:25:33Dr. Staci Whitman:Thank you.

1:25:34Shawn Stevenson:And again, we'll put all the links in the show notes. And I can't wait. I've got like a thousand more questions to ask you, of course. But like you said, you go deeper with your newsletter. So definitely check that out. Your Instagram is fantastic. I love it. Incredible videos, super insightful. And even in that medium, again, just making empowerment go viral, you know, good health. You know, it also, there's an inspiring nature to it because it's just like, I have the ability to influence my health, you know, and that's what's most important.

1:26:06Dr. Staci Whitman:You can be an advocate for yourself, which is so important. Well, we'll have to do it again because we can talk about a lot more. Can't wait.

1:26:12Shawn Stevenson:I've got your back. I appreciate you so much.

1:26:14Dr. Staci Whitman:I appreciate you too. Thank you.

1:26:16Shawn Stevenson:Of course. The one and only Dr. Stacey Whitman, everybody.

1:26:19Dr. Staci Whitman:Thank you, Sean.

1:26:20Shawn Stevenson:Thank you so much for tuning into this episode today. I hope that you got a lot of value out of this. You already know what to do. So many people are lacking education when it comes to their oral health. Send them this episode. Take a screenshot of this episode. You can share this on social media. You can send this as a text directly to somebody that you care about and you want to share this incredible information. We want people to feel more empowered. Going to the dentist is one of the top fears in the world, by the way, because a lot of people got a lot of drama going on, you know, and we need to remove that fear, remove that stigma.

1:26:59Shawn Stevenson:And Dr. Whitman is focused on making this a more functional, preventative care practice where we are truly aiming our focus at improving the health of the whole person and thus improving the health of our oral care. With this being said, we cannot separate the body into parts anymore. All of us matters. And having expertise to specifically, if there is something, as Dr. Whitman mentioned, is putting out fires. If there's a fire that needs to get put out, we want a dental expert for that. But we want also overall care of ourselves as a whole person. And that's what she is pioneering with the work that she's doing.

1:27:45So I'm telling you, you might've heard it here first.

1:27:49Shawn Stevenson:Dr. Whitman is going to make a huge impact in changing healthcare. So again, share this out with somebody that you care about, share your voice. If you enjoyed this episode, you could pop over through the YouTube channel, leave a comment. If you're watching or listening on Spotify, you can leave comments now. All right, Apple's making some changes as well, but you can share your voice and leave a review for the show on Apple. It really does mean a lot. And make sure that you're subscribed so you don't miss the thing. Make sure that you're subscribed to the show. I see the numbers. I see there's a percentage of people who listen to the show consistently, but they're not subscribed.

1:28:26Shawn Stevenson:And I don't get it. All right, hit that subscribe button that you stay up to date, we stay connected and just know that I've got your back. I appreciate you and I've got so much in store. All right, again, we got incredible masterclasses and world-class guests coming your way very, very soon. So make sure to stay tuned. Take care, have an amazing day and I'll talk with you soon.