The #1 Exercise for Metabolic Health, the Downfall of Biohacking, & the Forgotten Key to Longevity | Mark Sisson

28:20Shawn Stevenson:Most people don't realize that you can cause deficiencies in other things by mega dosing, you know, things that are healthy, you know? And so it's really about the context and the context of food first being the primary focus should be obvious. And also we live at an amazing time where we have access to supplements and, you know, you can really target certain things when you need to, but chances are a lot of this stuff you don't need to every day as well. And so I love the approach, even like you said, like vitamin C in these particular occasions, but also getting a lot of vitamin C just through your diet, but it's also coming along with all these other nutrients that help to balance the equation.

28:58Well, you know, many of the RDAs were determined in the 40s when the diet was largely grain-based. So, but it doesn't account for the fact that grains, for instance, contain phytonutrients, phytates, that bind with minerals and leach minerals out, increasing your need to take in more minerals. so the you know the rda the dv for um calcium being 1200 for women and you know 1000 for men was somewhat based on the fact that um you know it was being offset by some of the foods that we were eating or the way we were eating uh again i'm i don't i don't supplement with any of those things i just take i eat a lot of clean lean protein um i eat a lot of vegetables i don't cheese.

29:54It's pretty simple. Minimum effective dose. So I've given you already the minimum effective dose of exercise. That's really the minimum effective dose of exercise for you to get to 80 % of where you want to be in terms of your physical robustness and your competency across a broad range of activities. Minimum effective dose of protein, minimum effective dose of food, minimum effective dose of supplements. And we can apply this to the rest of our lives. What's the minimum effective dose of digital interaction I need in a day, you know, to get all the news I want, play my games and not get sucked down the thumb scroll, you know?

30:34Shawn Stevenson:I want to ask you, these two categories are the most, as far as like health literacy, it's diet and exercise. Yeah. but what are the other parts of that foundation for longevity that you feel we need to make sure people are paying attention to? Yeah. Well, sleep, obviously sleep is the one that's been talked about probably more than anything else in the last five or 10 years, because, and I think people get that now. But, you know, as a sort of subset of exercise, we've identified foot health as being the new sleep. So foot health might be the lowest hanging fruit in the world of longevity. You go, well, that's a strange segue.

31:19But foot health, if you look at what happens to people over the age of 65, the greatest risk for death is falling. It's falling and breaking a hip and winding up in the hospital and then dying of pneumonia. And I know everybody knows, not just one person, but several people who've had this happen to them where, you know, it's an older, frail person. They get up in the middle of the night to pee because their bladder is weak.

31:44Shawn Stevenson:And again, there's a whole cascade of events behind that as well. You know, they trip on the cat and they fall and break something. A lot of things are happening now. First of all, because, you know, when you're a kid, when you're 20 years old, you trip all the time. When you're 12 years old, I tripped, fell, whatever. I caught myself. Oh, you know, that was goofy of me. You trip in your 30s and 40s. Yes, same thing happens. Your feet are strong enough to, well, they respond well enough so that when you start to trip, you catch yourself. So you don't even trip. Or you are able, you have the foot strength to put that foot out in front of you and stop the trip from happening.

32:24You have enough balance in the first place to maybe not even encounter the trip at all. You have enough peripheral awareness to not be affected by certain things that would cause you to trip. you've gone to the gym or you've stayed fit enough to build the muscles in your legs to be able to fix that. Now, if you don't do any of this work for a bunch of years, now, if you don't go to the gym, you lose bone density. We know this, right? So bone density is almost a direct result of weight bearing loads. The bones, like the entire body responds to the inputs that we choose to give it. So muscles only grow because we choose to go to the gym and lift weights.

33:04So then the muscle goes, oh, if this clown's going to do this every day, we better get stronger and bigger and more powerful. And then the bones go, well, if the muscles are going to get bigger, we have to provide an anchor and a support for them. So then the bones get stronger. And then if you do some sprints or you do some aerobic activity, the heart goes, well, I got to start beating more forcefully to provide the oxygen and the nutrients to the muscles and to the other organs to keep up with this choice that this person's made to do this activity and and so on the lungs have to inspire on a greater volume to provide the oxygen to the heart to pump the blood and and and to feed the liver and to feed you know the kidneys and the spleen and everything else that all the organs in the body they all sort of come back to what we call organ reserve.

33:53Like if you do the work over a lifetime and you keep challenging the body with exercise and with hard things, the body responds by staying resilient and doing this. Conversely, you stop doing this stuff. You stop working out. In many cases, you stop working out because your feet hurt. We'll get to that. We'll come back to that. My feet hurt. My knees hurt. My lower back hurt. I certainly can't run. Can't ride a bike. I don't feel like walking now. So you stop working out. You stop going to the gym. You stop sprinting or jumping rope or dancing or whatever gives you pleasure. And over a period of years, your muscles atrophy, your bones get weaker, your balance is compromised tremendously.

34:39And so now when you trip and fall, everything that can go wrong will go wrong. You break a bone because you are unable to catch yourself in the fall. You wind up in the hospital prone for weeks at a time. You get pneumonia and you die of heart failure. It's a pretty classic story. So when I say foot health is probably one of the greatest indicators of longevity, I mean it. Big toe strength and Courtney Conley, I know you know Courtney, she will argue, you know, forever that big toe strength is probably one of the most critical components of foot strength. It's the most important joint in the human body.

35:20So when we overlook our foot health, when we assume that, ah, I wear shoes all the time, and as my feet get more tender and they get more attrified over time, all I need to do is find more and more thicker cushioned shoes. I have to go to a thicker cushion and a thicker cushion and walk on clouds. It's almost the opposite of what you want to have happen. Again, you want to build that resilience. So you want your feet to be strong and resilient and mobile in order to enable you to move for as long as you can. Again, once you stop moving, you start dying. And with feet, it's like that's your connection with the universe.

36:01Feet is our contact with the ground. Everything we do, every step we take, every time we run or jump or change direction or swing a golf club or swing a baseball bat, every time we hit a tennis ball, it starts with the foot and the foot's connection to the ground. That's why it's amazing to me that so many athletes kind of overlook foot health. In, you know, again, in service to the drills and everything else they do, because they put on their tight cleats and they lace them up and then they bind them up with more tape and then they go off and do their training. It is, that's so archaic to me.

36:37It's so bizarre that you would overlook this most important connection that you have with the ground. Now, that's athletes with average citizens. Same thing. Like you should be spending time. Like when people say, what are you doing on Tuesday? Well, Tuesday is leg day. I mean, excuse me, Tuesday is back and bys and, you know, Thursday is chest and tries or whatever. What day is foot day? What do you mean foot day? You know, everybody should have a foot day. I mean, feet are, they are foundational. They are, they are the point from which every athletic move emanates. emanates. And even if you're not an athlete and you want to improve your performance as a human being and do all the things we talked about in the beginning of this show to be able to participate in life, you got to focus on your feet.

37:22And that means walking, not just walking, but walking in the appropriate type of footwear, in the kind of footwear that lets the bottoms of your feet sense the ground underneath, the texture and the tilt of the ground underneath, so that the input, by the time you weight that forward foot, the brain has all the information it needs on exactly how to orchestrate the kinetic chain, how much to scrunch the arch or articulate the toes around that rock or through that divot or over that stick, how much to roll the ankle a little bit to the outside so that the knee doesn't tweak, how much to dip the knee because you just stepped off an 18-inch platform.

38:01And if you're in stiff hiking boots, it's like a jolt. You don't even know when you've hit the ground. But if you're barefoot or in really minimalist shoes, by the time you start to weight that foot, the brain already knows, I'll bend the knee a little bit extra because of this dip. And all of this is built into every one of us. And people say, well, but Mark, I have wide feet. I have flat feet. I'm duck-footed. I'm knock-kneed. I'm wide-hipped. Everybody is born with perfect feet and everybody is born with a perfect kinetic chain. The missing link for almost everybody who complains about this is they've lost the input from the bottoms of their feet to allow the brain to organize their perfect kinetic chain the way they were designed, not because you read some manual on how to keep your toes together and when you do deep knee bends, make sure your leaves are parallel.

38:56No, you're operating on your own unique kinetic chain that just requires the adequate input, the sensory input from the bottoms of the feet for it to work perfectly.

39:10Shawn Stevenson:I love this foot day. Yeah. When is your foot day? What day is foot day for you? You know, you got to think about this. And what's so cool, and you know, you've been ahead of the curve so often in your life, you know, even in the sleep conversation. Yeah. Long before it was in vogue. And now, advocation for a foot day. And also right now, as we are recording this interview, top tier, the best of the best strength coaches, performance coaches in the world, in their respective sports are now training their athletes, having them train their feet. Yeah. In particular, their big toe. Yes. You know, a lot of NBA athletes now are training barefoot or have barefoot training integrated into their training as well.

39:56Shawn Stevenson:And also specifically targeting big toe work, which is like maybe, for example, you get a band and the band is attached to something. Pull the band out and you hold that down with your big toe while getting in a lunge position and holding a static isometric. Right. So what you're saying and what you've been saying is now emerging. and it's just, again, it's so common sense once you become aware because your foot and that ground contact inform everything up the chain and we wanna have our bodies know what to do to have an appropriate response. But if you start to mute that data, there can be gaps in information all up the kinetic chain.

40:39Shawn Stevenson:And what is that gonna do? It's just gonna increase the risk for things to happen that shouldn't happen. No, it's tweaked knees, it's pulled hamstrings, It's weak glutes. It's piriformis syndrome because you have weak glutes and because the stabilizer muscles had to take over some of the job that the glutes should have been doing because you didn't engage the big toe. We talk a lot about in the gym about how the big toe or the great toe, as we call it, is needed to fire the glutes properly. It's part of this kinetic chain. If you scrunch that big toe, that great toe against the other toes in a shoe, you not only disable that connection, you also cut off the circulation of the plantar fascia area.

41:20So now you wonder why you get plantar fasciitis, because there's no blood flow there, because you put it into tight shoe. Or you get Achilles issues, or you get bunions, which is a very common occurrence, even in top athletes now, from having worn tight, tight, restrictive cleats, or even basketball shoes. You know, all of these occur because, again, you cut off that sensory input, that haptic sense that we need, that we require to organize the kinetic chain perfectly for you. So it just, it finds the weakest link up the chain, you know, and it may be, in some people, it may be the knees. Some people may have strong enough knees or they're aligned enough that it bypasses the knees, manifests itself in the hips.

42:07Maybe it's the lower back. Maybe it's the neck in some people. It's amazing how many people have various dysfunction in their body as a result of their footwear choices and their lack of attention to foot health over the years. Almost all of which could be, if not cured, certainly alleviated by spending time barefoot, doing foot exercises and wearing, in our case, wearing five-toed minimalist shoes that allow the toes to splay outward to get the full impact, the full force of a true foot. If you try to do a handstand like this, you probably won't be able to do it. But if you do a handstand like this, you've increased your platform 50%.

42:54Foot's the same way. If you sprint down the beach at low tide on the flat sand, barefoot, and you come back and look at your footprint, that's the widest your foot is ever going to splay. That's your foot being happy and saying, man, I'm powerful, I'm sprinting, I'm running down the beach, and I'm using the entire, all the musculature, all the intrinsic muscles of my foot to generate force. I'm not just starting the force from my ankle or my Achilles up because I've put a clunky shoe on. No, I'm using, so much of this force is coming from the muscles of my feet directly. It's one of the, you know, we started this company, Poluva, five years ago.

43:36We sold our first shoe three years ago. But the barefoot movement, the five-toe barefoot movement goes back to 2005 and 2006. And one of the early problems with anybody adopting a five-toed shoe was the science looked amazing. The science is like, this is exactly what we should be doing. We should all be wearing minimalist shoes. We should be articulating our toes individually. But a friend of mine, Christopher McDougall, wrote a book called Born to Run. And in it, he posited that we should be running barefoot. If we're going to run, we should run barefoot. We're designed to run that way. It would force us to run in the perfect posture.

44:13So like thousands, tens of thousands of runners went out and bought minimalist shoes and said, that's a great idea. I love that. We'll go run five miles the first time we put these on. They got injured. Why did they get injured? Because even though they'd been running 50, 60, 80 miles a week in their running shoes, their feet were atrophied. Their plantar fascia was weak. Their big toe was weak. The intrinsic muscles of their, the small muscles of their feet had never really fully integrated into the propulsive nature of a running stride. And so they all got injured, not because of the footwear, but because, well, not because the new choice in footwear, but because of the old choice in footwear had caused them to atrophy.

45:01So you think, how can a runner who's been running for 10 or 15 or 20 years have atrophied foot muscles? It's an epidemic among runners. And the more you coddle the feet with restrictive shoes and with built-in arches, I mean, built-in arch is one of the worst things that ever happened to shoes because the arch wants to work. The arch is a muscle. And there's an entire industry in podiatry built around creating artificial bridges, inserts, orthotics, if you will, for people who have weak arches or who have flat feet. Again, you're born with perfect feet. And if your arches look flat as a kid and as a teenager, so what?

45:42They're strong. If you run barefoot, they don't have to look like this to be a strong arch. That's just the name we gave it. But a flat foot that's strong is as strong as an arched foot that's strong. So to have to go back and say, well, the only fix for this pain that you have in your knees or in your hips is it's in your shoes and we're going to put a support in there so your arch doesn't have to work. Can you see how ridiculous that is? Of course. And yet an entire industry is built on arch supports. Now, am I saying nobody should be using an arch support? Absolutely not, because some people are so messed up that without an arch support, they can't move.

46:27So you got to see where you are on that scale and go, okay, if my feet are that messed up, I'm going to gradually get into this concept. But I'm just telling you that everybody has the potential to have really strong, resilient, mobile feet. And with that, to carry them through life to where they're walking until the day they die.

46:48Shawn Stevenson:Yeah. But just imagine if those people who, you know, they're, again, so messed up, as you said, with their arches, that they need that support. Just what if they were given the right training? What if they were given the right exercise? What if they were given the right kind of lifestyle support to actually make their feet stronger? But that's just not the culture that we have right now. And now I'm starting to really understand. I understood before because you're passionate about health and fitness and also helping people. But now I'm starting to understand, you don't have to do this. Like you sold your last company.

47:27Shawn Stevenson:You could just go anywhere and just lay on the beach, literally have people serve you grapes, you know, for the rest of your life. But you chose to dive into this venture and truly like, like you got your, oh, Brad is over there in the corner, by the way, in his paloovahs. but you've surrounded yourself with people who are equally as passionate and who walk their talk literally. And building this and making this impact and the people that you're impacting already, just again, you just mentioned that story of bumping to that person who had the Paloovas for quite some time, but you bumped into her walking and she was wearing them and it's created all this transformation.

48:13Shawn Stevenson:And it's just like that possibility is there and it's like literally helping to heal your body from the ground up. Yeah. And I think the interesting thing about Paluva is we don't tell people to run. In fact, we say don't run. They're the best running shoe you'll ever wear if you know how to run, but don't run in these. Walk. Because every step you take is a rep. In fact, that's one of our slogans. Every step is a rep. Every step is a rep in rebuilding a resilient, strong foot. If you run, now you're putting G-forces on it. You're putting stresses on muscles that maybe have atrophied for years and years, and you're not ready to do that work yet.

48:53But walking's not the case. Walk, and certainly if you get palovas and you walk 10 or 15 minutes the first day and a half hour the next day, and within a few days, your feet go, oh, God, this is like, there's a newfound freedom. The muscles get tired, but not sore. They're tired in a good way because you haven't worked them. It's like, I mean, imagine going to the gym, not having lifted for like 10 years, your first day at the gym, you're going to be tired, right? But that's a good thing because now you're starting to rebuild that strength and that power and that resilience that you had at one time.

49:25Same with feet. So with Paloova, we say, that's why this combination of lots of low-level activity, walking as much as you can, as often as you can throughout the day, and then if you do it in the right shoes, you engage probably 20 or 30 percent more of the muscles in your leg when you are using the intrinsic muscles of your feet when you're letting that big toe be the last point of contact when you're when you're roll you know you're you have a reacquiring a normal perfect gait so many people over the years their feet go out like this and now they're walking like this because the big toe wants to be the last point of contact but you've already now you've pressed it against the other other toes.

50:06Well, imagine now if the toe is the last point of contact, now you're walking parallel again. The amount of, we have a new website that we just put up. It's just called paluvareviews.com because we had at 6 ,000 reviews, many of which are video reviews of just tear-jerking testimonials of people like, I never thought I'd walk again without some kind of pain. And within a few days, things went away. Now, I can't make this promise or guarantee to anyone or everyone, but so many of these reports that we get are just reaffirming what I already knew to be true, which is that foot health is the new, it's the lowest hanging fruit.

50:43It's the new sleep. It's the new thing to focus on if in your longevity journey. And if it's mostly built around walking, not even having to do the half pipe, you know, the PVC stuff and all the stuff in the gym. If all you do is walk, but do it with intention and do it with, you know, a regularity. I can't think of an easier way to acquire resilience and longevity than that. Yeah.

51:12Shawn Stevenson:Yeah. I mean, this is something that you're probably going to be doing anyways, just walking. Yeah. You know, it's, it's my habit that I've built over the last couple of years. When I leave the studio, I go home, I put on my paloovas and I just go walk and I decompress. And, you know, this is like my prehab, rehab, you know, training in them as well, especially like doing lower body type training sessions. I love wearing the paloovas. And what's different about them for me personally is the, is the accessibility for different types of movement, right? other iterations of trying to approach what you've created, they're not as forgiving when it comes to pushing a sled, for example, especially if you're untrained.

52:01Shawn Stevenson:But you've got Paloovas that are for cross-training. You've got Paloovas that are for the golf course. You've got Paloovas that are for, as my videographer shared, he bumped into a friend who was wearing them on the tennis court. and you know it's just like thinking in those terms of actual applicability you know like being able to have the accessibility for the thing that i want to do and also making them cooler that's the that's the key as well that was big yeah you know because again it's like culturally this is unusual but really stepping up to make the designs cool and you know that's one of the things that I was really surprised at.

52:43Shawn Stevenson:Also, how many people stop me and we have conversations like, oh, what are those? Where'd you get those? But not, what are those in the negative way? It's like, I'm genuinely interested. And often what I'll hear is like, I should get some of those. And so, by the way, if you want to get some of those, go to paluva.com forward slash model for 10 % off. All right. This is exclusive with us. Paluva.com forward slash model is P-E-L-U-V-A dot com forward slash model 10 % off why the name paluva yeah it's that's a great story i think it's a great story you you be the judge but um you know i have like 20 different trademarks on primal words um primal fuel primal kitchen primal nutrition primal blueprint primal blueprint health coach institute primal health all this stuff over the years and i went to get primal footwear or primal footprint for uh for this shoe company somebody taking it so um they don't exist anymore but they aggressively protect the name so i had to come up with a new name so my son and i went through a list of different iterations of different languages foot and glove and comfort and and it just turned out that in portuguese p-e-p is foot and luva is glove so peluva became the name and you know we we like it we think it's a great name you know it's got a little bit of a cachet to it everything i want to touch on something you said though about your evening walk.

54:06You decompress. Because I do that every night. 6.30 at night when I'm home, I'm staying at the shutters. And I've done that the last couple of nights too at the shutters. It is to decompress. It's my meditative time. And I think the interesting thing is, it's not like, oh, it's 6.30, I have to go walk. It's 6.30, I get to go walk. And I don't know about you, but when I have palovas on, when I'm feeling the ground underneath, I'm walking a little bit more upright with my shoulders back, my chest out a little bit, I'll chin up a little higher. I'm walking with a little bit of a swing and swag, swagger.

54:41And every step, while unconsciously taken, is intentional. Every step is like, and I literally can, when I say every step's a rep, I can feel the push off. I can feel the completion of the gate. And it's not, again, like I'm focusing on it. I just feel it. I notice it. And most of the when I'm walking, I'm writing a column or I'm working on a business idea or something. It's my creative time too. But I love the fact that if you treat it like I get to work, I get to walk instead of I have to walk, I think that makes a big difference.

55:18Shawn Stevenson:And there's something about it to where it's just more nourishing. Yeah. So it feels like it's like freedom, like I get to do this. Yeah. That's great, man. Well, just to circle back, so again, with these foundational components, our food, obviously, our fitness, and focus on foot health being like this X factor in this, and paying attention to our sleep wellness. Is there anything else in that foundation? Yeah, I mean, I think they all sort of intertwine, and I would say that stress management is a big deal here in longevity. and the stress management is, it has to, in some cases, because that's been my biggest, probably my biggest issue.

56:00I've always been a good sleeper. I've always been a good eater. I've always been a good exerciser, but I don't handle stress well. So I'm conscious of that, but I'm also aware that I can negatively impact my stress by not eating right, by not sleeping right, by not exercising right, by exercising too much, right? So the walking part of that becomes meditative. that becomes a de-stress for me as well. But I would say that I'd be remiss in not adding that component. Now, stress management for some people takes on different iterations. It could be spiritual practices for some people. That's how you adjust for that level of stress.

56:40Could be community for some people. It could be just pure meditation for other people. But I think I would have to add that into the mix.

56:52Shawn Stevenson:So, yeah. So much of this is like, again, accessible, simple, cost efficient, even when it comes to de-stressing. You know, sometimes just practicing the art of being quiet for a little bit, you know, especially in such a noisy world where everybody's talking. So it's incredibly valuable. And again, you know, this was in publishing JAMA. This was like over a decade ago. And they found that upwards of 80 % of all physician visits today are for stress-related illnesses or they have a primary stress-related component to be more specific. And so stress, excessive stress, not managing our stress well can literally tear up our biology.

57:33Shawn Stevenson:And so it's paying attention to that. But just think about what happens when you are stacking conditions against yourself and not minding the other things. So again, still like really working on being a great sleeper, you know, getting your nutrition right, getting your movement practices in. These are all funny enough. If they're done wrong, they add to the stress. Add to the stress. Gets us back to the wearable devices. You know, when an Aura ring tells me that, I don't wear one, but when a device, sorry, don't want to pick on Aura. But when a device says, I wake up in the morning, oh, man, I slept great.

58:07Oh, I guess I didn't. because my device says I got a 62. That's going to mess with my head all day long. I thought it's up great. I felt great about it. Or when my HRV device says, today's a great day to train. And it doesn't know that I have PVCs and I skip beats in my heart, which is not a good thing. But the HRV looks at the intervals and goes, that's a good thing. Go ahead and do it. um you know when when we look at um oh i got a part of my practice is doing a cold plunge every day regardless well if i had a fight with my wife in the morning i had a stressful day at work um and then i you know i ran five miles uh above my max fat heart rate and then i go home and do a a cold plunge i've added yet another stress another hormetic stressor completely unnecessary but because I thought it was good.

59:03Now I'm really stressed out. And I could have, you know, I could have handled the conversation with my wife a little differently. I could have not done the five mile workout because I had a stressful day. I could, whatever you can, there are literal things that you can do, but like you say, in service to another set of plans, in service to getting my workout in, right. Or in service to the orthorexie of, oh Jesus, if I don't have protein in the next 10 hours, I'm going to waste away. I'm going to lose my muscle mask. Getting caught up in that orthorexia, that ortho, whatever it is, add the second layer to that, trying to do the right thing can actually put you in a position of being overly stressed.

59:45Shawn Stevenson:So true. So true. It could be the thing that the stress that breaks the camel's back, potentially. And this is where we, maybe you get sick, maybe you have an injury, whatever the case might be. You can usually trace it back to these situations where we're - I think you can almost trace it. Almost always. Whenever I've gotten sick, I'm like, oh, Jesus, I knew better. I should have paid attention. I shouldn't have done that last quarter mile sprint on the track, or I shouldn't have had that bag of candy at the movie theater or whatever it was. You could always kind of go back. I was going for 10 reps.

1:00:21I felt bad at seven. I should have stopped. I had to do my 10. All those things, you can always go back and connect the dots, I think.

1:00:29Shawn Stevenson:Amazing. Well, I love connecting the dots with you. It's one of my favorite things to do. And like I said, every time I talk with you, I gain new insights. And I started this off with this conversation or this illumination of the fountain of youth. Yeah. Right, and I started, as I was talking about, I was thinking about this Indiana Jones movie as well. And humans have always been looking for that thing that can bring about long life, immortality dare I say. And the reality is for us right now, we have so much more potential built in. Our genes already have the blueprint for a much longer, not just lifespan, but health span.

1:01:19Shawn Stevenson:And the reality is it's the macros of the situation, right? It's those big movers. It's not hyper-focusing or majoring in the minor. No amount of methylene blue is gonna fix you if you don't have the rest dialed in. And this is the beauty today is that, okay, you have that. You have the red light therapy, you have all these different things, and those are all wonderful. They have their place, but if you're not doing the things that matter most, then we're really missing the point. And the fountain of youth can potentially dry up. So where can people connect with you, get more information, all that good stuff?

1:01:58So I'm on Instagram as Mark Sisson Primal. Paluva, which will be in your show notes is Paluva.com. And then we have an Instagram site for Paluva, which is where, W-E-A-R, Paluva.com. on our paluva.com site we have an 88 page uh book on foot health and how to achieve uh excellent foot health talks about the history of footwear and then goes into some uh specifics specific exercises talks a little bit about paluva of course that's free that's free yeah that's free just we need your email but you know but that's a free 88 page uh download uh yeah and uh you know I just wanna, with my former business, I wanted to change the way the world eats.

1:02:45I wanna change the way the world moves now and looks at movement. And that's the passion I have. You say, why am I doing this? Because I'm equally as passionate about this as anything I've ever been in my life. Yeah, and I could see it now.

1:02:56Shawn Stevenson:I appreciate it so much. Thank you. The one and only Mark Sisson, everybody. Thank you so much for tuning into this episode today. I hope that you got a lot of value out of this. If you did, keep it going. Share the goodness. Keep the conversation going. Share it on social media. Take a screenshot. Tag me. I'm at Sean Model. Tag Mark as well. He's about that life when it comes to the socials. He's down. He's cool. He's kicking it with the youngsters. Now, real talk, Mark is very active on social. He's got some incredible social media videos and insights and education that he does on social. So definitely give him a follow.

1:03:33Shawn Stevenson:And also, again, keep in mind, if you want to take advantage of the exclusive 10 % off discount with Paluva, go to paluva.com forward slash model. All right, that's P-E-L-U-V-A.com forward slash model. Take advantage, get yourself hooked up, get that foot fitness online. We've got some epic masterclasses and world-leading experts coming your way very, very soon. So make sure to stay tuned. Take care, have an amazing day, and I'll talk with you soon.