The Algorithm Is Rewiring Our Kids - Here’s What Every Parent Needs to Know | Dr. Shefali

17:05Shawn Stevenson:And I'm friends with all the, you know, the neighbors who've been there for like 30, 40, 50 years. My neighbor Stan has been there for 53 years, which is crazy. He just used to tell me these stories about like this cul-de-sac used to be filled with kids playing all the time. The kids live in the cul-de-sac still. They're just not outside playing.

17:25Dr. Shefali:Where are they, right? They're behind their consoles, pretending like they are doing things, right? Their avatars are doing things, but they're just sitting. So they're not learning the embodiment of real life experience. They're not learning through the embodiment of real life experiences. They're not taking risks. They're not testing themselves. They're not challenging themselves. And for boys, especially, you remember, I mean, you still have, but back then you had even more testosterone, right? Testosterone is the hormone that fuels drive and pursuit and adventure and risk and challenge and conquest.

18:04Dr. Shefali:And when boys don't channel their testosterone, they suppress it and then it mutates and it shows up in very unhealthy ways.

18:14Shawn Stevenson:I cannot wait to dig into this more. This is so important. Something else that came up was, and again, you pointed this out in my awareness, just expanded on this subject, which was organic play, organic relationships, because the things that our kids are doing outside of our house are things that are usually curated by us. We're taking them to these appointments, to this thing, to this practice. And those things are all fine and dandy. But just our kids' play dates that we're scheduling, versus our kids creating these organic relationships, which was just, it's a nature of being around other humans and being outside of your doors.

18:53Shawn Stevenson:And also the access to a tribe, an extended family, being fractured really. You know, so many, one of the things that I'm thinking more about recently is how this phenomenon of, you know, our kids go off to college. Right. So we have this environment that they're in and then suddenly, you know, maybe they grew up in L.A. and now they're going to New York by themselves.

19:15Dr. Shefali:Yeah.

19:15Shawn Stevenson:Right. And they're trying to create roots there. And that's, again, that's another human capacity. Right. But is that, look at the success rate. What about the results?

19:23Dr. Shefali:Right.

19:24Shawn Stevenson:Are they ending up more successful, more fulfilled, more healthy, more mentally healthy? Right. You know, or is there something that we need to be more aware of? And not to say that our kids don't go off on an adventure.

19:34Dr. Shefali:We've always had that in the human experience.

19:37Shawn Stevenson:But maybe we're more intentional about a tribe being present.

19:40Dr. Shefali:Yes.

19:41Shawn Stevenson:You know.

19:41Dr. Shefali:Yeah. If you go to college campuses now, you will see most people on their phones. They're not gathering by the fire or by the park or by the basketball hoop. They are mostly disconnected in individual silos on their phone. And children need to discover who it is they are through the messiness of the friction of rejection and failure and relationships that are choppy and you have to kind of negotiate it. And when they turn to AI for friendship or for therapy, sure, AI is an echo chamber. It repeats, it reflects, it mirrors exactly what you need to hear. AI is always available. AI may not judge you the way your mom will judge you.

20:28Dr. Shefali:Your mom will be like, get out of here, right? But that kind of human to human checking, which makes you uncomfortable, which makes you squirm, which makes you pissed off and you have to regulate your emotions, that is how you grow. AI is not going to piss you off. AI is not going to be imperfect and choppy. AI is going to be there for you on demand, but that is unhealthy. Which human being is there for us on demand? So then if a boy is talking to his AI therapist, who's always up his ass, then he has porn where he's thinking, wow, women are there for my pleasure. There is no friction. You know, bend them any which way.

21:09Dr. Shefali:Any fantasy he can scroll to. He begins to develop a very warped understanding of human relationships. Then when he goes to get, you know, a girlfriend or have sex for the first time and she squirms or says, no, not now, or I'm too tired, he's going to think there's something wrong with her. He doesn't understand. He has a warped sense of what relationships are all about.

21:35Shawn Stevenson:One of the things that you shared, which is so powerful, is that the surest way to keep our daughter safe is to raise boys who are whole.

21:43Dr. Shefali:Yeah.

21:43Shawn Stevenson:And I want to go back to the boyhood because what I loved most, because I didn't know what to expect. I said, I shared this with you, but I kind of did because you really are about that life for real. And, but what, what really helped me and I celebrated was the fact that you weren't warring against testosterone and boyhood and aggression. and also at the other end of the spectrum, we know the dangers when things are not channeled correctly or we don't have some of the things that we're gonna talk about. And so I've seen this firsthand working as a practitioner, doing this work. I've been in this field for 23 years, but how many kids get lost in the shuffle who are just full of energy, right?

22:30Shawn Stevenson:They're just full of energy and vitality, but they're led to believe in a well-meaning parent that there's something wrong with their child. because they have a hard time sitting still in class, in kindergarten or first grade. Now you got to sit down. And one child that I'm thinking about, I remember having a conversation with him. And we were talking about something and he was like moving around. He like went behind my couch and then he kind of was sitting on the couch. And then I'm just like, this kid is not listening. and is very different from the temperament of my youngest son, who he's friends with.

23:11Shawn Stevenson:Cut to the next day, he basically verbatim recited back to me what we were talking about. I'm like, whoa. I mean, I felt like in that moment, like, you're a genius. And his genius was also integrated as he was moving around. But unfortunately, his parents, again, just the situation wanted him to be good in school. and they had him on various medications. And he would share with them, which he eventually, thankfully, the mother shared with me that whenever he would have the medication, he would say, I don't feel like myself anymore.

23:45Dr. Shefali:You're absolutely right. I always say that there's a war on boys right from when they're in elementary school. Boys are not supposed to, I'm just talking in the main stereotypes, sit still and learn from the, from the, you know, from the head down. Boys learn from a bottom-up approach, from their body. That boy was learning through his movement. He needed to move because his testosterone was like, go, go, go. And when you shun his wiring and you make him feel bad for his wiring, for who he is in his neurochemistry, he goes, well, what do you want me to do? So boys are being shamed, medicated, diagnosed as problems, suppressed and almost, you know, ostracized for who it is they are and told to be more like girls.

24:38Dr. Shefali:But they cannot be more like girls when they are more like boys. And there's nothing wrong with being like a boy. Right. And we've thrown the baby out with the bathwater just because a few men can be violent and quote unquote bad. We've kind of made all men feel bad about themselves. and we've thrown out masculinity. Like masculinity is bad. Masculinity is a beautiful force. It is a powerful force. It is protective. It is nurturing. It is integrated. It can be the guiding leadership that we need. Of course, it needs to be conscious. But it in and of itself is not bad. It is only bad when it is suppressed, shamed, and then it mutates out as violence towards women and children and other men, right?

25:22Dr. Shefali:but in itself, it's a guiding force that needs to be channeled in a beautiful way. So little boys are being suppressed and told they're bad, but then teenage boys are being told they're bad because now they are burgeoning into their sexuality. And like you talked about, there is no brotherhood to initiate them into a conscious sexuality. So they feel like, what is wrong with me? I'm having erections all the time. I'm having desires. I look at my mother's friend and I'm having desires. Is there something wrong with me? And no one is explaining to him that this is his wiring and he needs to integrate that sexuality, be accountable for that sexuality, restrain the sexuality.

26:02Dr. Shefali:But you can only do that when you are celebrating that this is not a bad part of you. This is a part that is needing integration. Yeah.

26:13Shawn Stevenson:And this is, again, normal. Normal. This is happening to all of these young men. Yes. and again unfortunately and and i want to ask you like why why do we treat it the way that we have yeah you know i know that there's some indoctrination just from like a maybe um a religious religious perspective cultural sexuality it's basically like this all of this stuff is bad bad you're having you know evil thoughts yes what and you're a sinner you're a sinner and purify

26:46Dr. Shefali:yourself when actually it's just normal male sexuality. And when normal male sexuality is shunned, suppressed, uninitiated, and sent into the gutters of the male psyche, it doesn't die. It mutates and comes out in a perverted way. So if we really care about our women and children, We must teach males, especially adolescent males, how to harness that powerful sexuality and channel it in a healthy way. But if we're not even talking about it, if we're not even, right, women don't know how to talk about it. They're not sexual. They don't have a penis. They don't understand male erections. They don't understand desire and testosterone.

27:32Dr. Shefali:And in fact, they've been victims of male desire and testosterone. So they're like, get that away from me. I don't like it. Put it back in the box. So where are the fathers, right? Fathers need to integrate their sons and initiate fathers, brothers, uncles, cousins. A band of elderly males need to help that boy to understand accountability, consent, restraint, and integration.

27:56Shawn Stevenson:Yeah, yeah. And this is underlined the word, and it's bolded even on the covers, conscious.

28:02Dr. Shefali:Yes.

28:03Shawn Stevenson:Conscious, because you can get those messages from elders that are distorted as well.

28:08Dr. Shefali:Absolutely.

28:09Shawn Stevenson:And so really being conscious about this and the messages and the community that you're intentionally having around your son. Yes. And understanding how important it is. So even making sure that this conversation is being had. Yes. About sexuality, about this development. And again, that there's nothing wrong or unusual or, you know, something for you to fear.

28:32Dr. Shefali:Yes.

28:32Shawn Stevenson:Can be developed as well. Yeah. More just more things to suppress.

28:35Dr. Shefali:Yeah, a father came to me recently and said, no one talked to me. I don't know what to say. What can I say? So I literally had to teach him. I said, you can say something like this. You know, son, you're about to be 12, 13. You are going to wake up with this raging fire inside you called desire. Your brain is going to be telling you to procreate, to like spread your seeds. This is part of your evolutionary heritage as a male. And you're going to have to manage those thoughts and those impulses. But society will tell you that you're a bad person or you're dirty or you're evil or the church will tell you or the religious scripture will tell you to hide from it.

29:18Dr. Shefali:But the more you hide from it, the more it will chase you. So I'm here to tell you that it happened to me. It still happens to me. and I want us to be able to talk about it. So one night you're going to wake up and you're going to have a male erection. And so this is how we just break it down. And just giving it language, name, voice will help your son to be able to integrate it and hold space for it without shame, without feeling bad and without running away from it.

29:52Shawn Stevenson:So how do we actually do this?

29:55Dr. Shefali:Yeah. You know, because again, I have a similar story to that man.

30:01Shawn Stevenson:Nobody talked to me.

30:02Dr. Shefali:Nobody talked to you.

30:03Shawn Stevenson:You know, I had a little half awkward, like two sessions of like a phys ed class where we talked about sex. Yeah. And all the kids are just like, man, this is mad weird. Like, you know, just laughing, giggling, whatever. And that was the extent of like a formal education.

30:18Dr. Shefali:Right.

30:19Shawn Stevenson:And the only other person to talk to me about it was my grandmother. Oh, goodness. when I'm already sexually active. Yes, yeah. It was already too late. She brings me some condoms. Yeah. I'm like, Grandma, what the, what is this?

30:31Dr. Shefali:Yeah. You know?

30:32Shawn Stevenson:And so I didn't have any male models or guidance or mentorship except for voices that were demonstrating or encouraging me for, you know, conquests. Yeah, like locker room talk. The more, you know, women that you, and also, you know, me being a guy who's attracting women, they were kind of even using me. You know, like one of my earliest memories is like, you know, one of my uncles like taking me around places because girls would come up to him and be like, you know, oh my God, he's so cute. And he would try to like leverage me as like, you know what I mean? And so I just, that was what my environment was teaching me.

31:08Dr. Shefali:Correct. But nobody taught you that this is a force that you are privileged to possess and you need to honor it and hold it responsibly. Right. You didn't know. So it's all over the place. You're like, oh, this is fun. But you're not really able to be in charge of it in a conscious way unless you're guided to do that. And when we used to live in tribes and not to idealize because I wasn't there, but I imagine that the elders tested boys and made them go through these series of rites of passages where their sexuality, their physicality was tested before they were called a man. They needed to prove themselves that they could contain themselves, that they could manage themselves, that they could discipline themselves before they were indoctrinated as a man.

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33:47Shawn Stevenson:Again, 20 % off at Organifi.com forward slash model. And now back to the show. Yeah. I, I, I didn't value it. I didn't value that fire.

33:59Dr. Shefali:Yeah.

34:00Shawn Stevenson:And again, by not valuing it, I would give it, give it away freely, you know? And so that's another thing that helped me reading your book. It was also for myself too. And to, again, and just think about the results of that as well. If I'm not valuing it, I'm not probably valuing that exchange as well. And how much energy and power that actually holds.

34:24Dr. Shefali:It actually holds and how scary it can be when it's not held with accountability, You know, and if we look at all the pedophiles in the world today, mostly men, if we look at violence, domestic violence and abuse against women and children, mostly men, you know, most girls have been molested or sexually violated by someone in their house, someone in their family. Right. The most dangerous person to the girl will be a step parent, a male step parent. So we have to protect our girls and children by helping men manage their aggression and sexuality. Right. And we have to have conversations and bring it out of the closet and be bold about it and not allow men to think that they can walk around with this power and they're entitled to every desire being met.

35:18Dr. Shefali:Right. Men have to check other men and tell them just because you have desire doesn't mean the woman has to allow you. You know, when we used to live in the natural world, females held a lot of power. You know, we were the choosers. We got to choose which males we reproduced with. And we knew we held the power like the peahen, who is very plain looking, the peahen. she chooses from the peacocks, right? The males have to dance and win her favor. But now we live in this world where females have lost their choice. Now they are being chosen. So we're competing with each other. We're going to go get our Botox.

35:56We're going to go get skinny or be in shape.

35:59Dr. Shefali:And the men are like doing whatever they want. Like things have changed. And that is what leads to so much violence against us women. If you marry that fire with anger. Yeah. and the repression of both, again, we see more of this distortion.

36:16Shawn Stevenson:And I want to talk about anger because it can manifest. It's not just anger. This could be married with inadequacy. This could be married with depression or sadness. And it can manifest a different way. But specifically anger, this is another one of those things that as boys, as young men, we are kind of indoctrinated or programmed to suppress it. don't express anger. Don't be mad. That's scary. That's violent. Again, just the emotion itself being the problem. But it's not, again, anger isn't the problem. It's how it's harnessed and how it's expressed. And to the degree to which it is dominating over other people.

37:02Dr. Shefali:Like, does your anger impede on other people? But anger is a fire, which needs to be harnessed and channel, like you said. And anger is part of the testosterone blueprint. Anger, when initiated and when integrated, protects you, right? If an intruder comes into the house and you're not angry about it, your boundaries are going to get violated. Anger is an expression that comes about when your boundaries are about to get violated. So it's protective. It just needs to be expressed and manifested in a way that doesn't take away the rights of others.

37:34Shawn Stevenson:Yeah. Thank you for saying that. I mean, I could think of examples of anger being protective for, you know, entire communities, you know, entire, you know, countries.

37:45Dr. Shefali:Yeah, you know, I've had so many men come to me sometimes, my male friends who in the past when I was in my early 20s or my teens, I would tell them about a boyfriend or about a fling. And they would get angry with that man I was talking about. And I'd be like, why are you angry? They're like, do you know that that's not appropriate? But I was such the good girl. I didn't even know. So it took another man to tell me that's inappropriate, right? And that's what men can do for each other. Y 'all can check each other. And men respect that from other men more than they do from stereotypically a woman, you know?

38:17Shawn Stevenson:Let's talk more about that, the modeling, the tribe. You know, again, there are many different versions of what a family can look like today. You know, maybe your father isn't present. But like, can you talk more about the importance of having those mentors and the guidance for our young men?

38:34Dr. Shefali:So I tell mothers that after a certain point, you need to really back off in general with girls and with boys. All of us need to back off when our kids are entering their authority and sovereignty as teenagers. But definitely mothers with sons. After a certain point, 12, 11, 12, you need to allow your boy to be initiated into a circle of other elderly men. go to the YMCA, go to the Boys and Girls Club, find some uncle. You cannot initiate your boy into his sexuality and into his manhood. You are not his sex. You don't understand the male experience and that's okay. You can do it for your daughter.

39:16Dr. Shefali:And this sounds like gender stereotyping. I don't mean to be reductive. I mean to be a pragmatist that asking a woman to imagine what a teenage boy is going through, it's just lunacy, you know? You can do it for your teenage daughter, but let your teenage boy be released into a circle of conscious men who can teach him what conscious masculinity looks like.

39:43Shawn Stevenson:One of the things that you shared, a great little insight and tip and thing that I accidentally did, but I wish I would have done more, is when your son is maturing to let him lead.

39:56Dr. Shefali:Yeah. How did you know to do that?

39:58Shawn Stevenson:To be honest, just going on these hikes here in LA and my tendency is to lead. It's just to like get out in front of everybody. Let's get the pace going. And I'm the dad. I'm the dad as well. But like consciously, you know, like pushing my son in front and like let him lead.

40:17Dr. Shefali:Like son, I'm following you. Yeah. Son, take the baton.

40:20Shawn Stevenson:You got the way.

40:21Dr. Shefali:You got the way. I trust you. You are somebody I believe in. You know, a father recently told me that his father told him, son, I believe in you. Just that one sentence set him free. Because when you get that faith, that trust from your trusted father, uncle, oh my goodness, that means so much because that man is telling you, I'm entrusting you with care for the tribe. I'm entrusting you with leadership. You can do this. I'm going to follow you. Wow. What a testament to that man who is yet emerging.

40:59Shawn Stevenson:It's like an, it's an initiation.

41:01Dr. Shefali:It's an initiation, but many fathers are competitive. You didn't have that? You didn't feel competitive with your sons?

41:07Shawn Stevenson:Of course. We are still super competitive. Yeah. Yeah. For sure.

41:11Dr. Shefali:But you were also in a healthy way, but you didn't let it become unhealthy where you had to dominate.

41:17Shawn Stevenson:Let me say this. Yes. I want them to be better than me. See? I'm competing with them.

41:21Dr. Shefali:So that they can push themselves. Yes. Yes. I love that. I love that.

41:26Shawn Stevenson:Wow. Oh, man, I got the chills. One of the things you've already presented is, and it's the catalyst for writing two different books at the same time, which I would imagine, again, they mirror each other very much as well. But we are speaking to an entirely different makeup. You know, if we just want to look at this from the point of biology, but also cultural and so many different layers when it comes to our girls. And today, more than ever, as you mentioned, this age of artificial parenting, but just it's artificial everything. And so can you help us to start to unpack, like, how can we manage this when our girls are, they are literally indoctrinated into these unrealistic expectations and they're constantly judging themselves.

42:17Shawn Stevenson:And I'm thinking about my daughter who, you know, she's not a little girl anymore, but just she was young as all of this stuff, smartphones were coming along. Right. So she knows what it's like pre and post. And I just remember little things like in high school, you know, and her judging herself. And I just thought she was the most beautiful thing ever. And there were things about herself that she started. And I'm just like, where did this come from? Right, right. And so how can we be more conscious, raise conscious daughters and help to manage all of this newness?

42:51Dr. Shefali:Oh, my goodness. Girls are growing up in a pressure cooker of unrealistic standards for beauty and success and purpose. And they're supposed to, you know, do 10 things by nine o 'clock and be everywhere and everything to all people. And girls feel like they are overwhelmed with this pressure and they're imploding. So anxiety in girls is at an all-time high. Self-harm, anorexia, bulimia, feeling like they are lonely, feeling like they have nowhere to go, the competition. You know, girls have oxytocin more than boys, and that makes them feel bonded to people. So being in connection and feeling seen by others, I call it the perception prison, is very important.

43:38Dr. Shefali:So being seen by others becomes a prison online because you're being constantly evaluated, constantly told who you need to be by strangers, right? And so that girl grows up thinking that she can never be good enough. And she's watching thousands of other people, other girls, and she's constantly comparing herself to them. And that's why you're asking, how did she get that? Like, where did she get that from? Well, from the internet, from the algorithm that feeds her this unrelenting competition with other females. and she's constantly pitting herself with them, thinking she needs to be like them or better.

44:16Dr. Shefali:But you can never be like them or better when they are filtered, when they are not even real, when they are electronically manipulated and technologically enhanced, and they're almost avatars of themselves. So the girl grows up dissociated from her own beauty, her own inner worth, her own power, and she's buying products and she's going to Sephora's and she's constantly consuming, which is exactly what the algorithm wants her to do. The algorithm wants our boys to be zombies so that they can control the male psyche. And they want our girls to be buckling under pressure so that she will buy more and more product and make their wallets fatter.

44:59Dr. Shefali:It is all in the design to feed the capitalist machine that our entire world is being led on.

45:08Shawn Stevenson:you just broke it down yeah and and the men who are being controlled they're not going to fight back yeah you know and that anger again yeah being directed towards something to protect just makes so much sense we're in we're in a mess right now and this is why we need this

45:24Dr. Shefali:yeah i i recognize that we are feeling overwhelmed i was feeling overwhelmed in my own life just sitting with anger and i was just yelling at the algorithm you know as if the algorithm is a human, you know? Oh, waiting for the government to make laws, change laws. What is the government going to do? Even if there are laws, at the end of the day, we at home need to be empowered to make choices. So that's why I've written these books, because I was terrified. I was anxious. I was worried for our children, but I also needed a blueprint. I needed to feel empowered that I could make a difference. So every chapter has conscious tools.

46:05Dr. Shefali:It has red flags. It has a way forward. What you can do starting right now.

46:10Shawn Stevenson:Yeah. Yeah. Let's talk about some of these red flags. Yes. Like what are some of the things that we can keep an eye out for?

46:18Dr. Shefali:Oh my goodness. By the age of seven and eight, your daughter will probably begin to tuck her tummy in and try to have a nose that looks like other people's noses. she will extra look at herself in the mirror. She'll critique herself from her earlobes to her toes. And she'll begin to ask you for fashion. You know, can I buy this? Can I buy makeup? Can I have a nightly face routine? You know, 13 steps, skincare routine. And she's trying to tell you already, mommy, daddy, I'm feeling too much pressure. I don't like my body. I want to change my face. And that means she is succumbing to the cultural messages that who she is as she is, is not good enough.

47:03Dr. Shefali:She wants to be skinnier or thicker or whatever the latest trend is. And she's going to get on a roller coaster that will never stop. And she will be at war against herself. So what do you need to do at home? You need to watch for the signs. You need to pay attention and you need to constantly integrate her into the message that who she is as she is, is more than good enough. And that there's a trap that's waiting for her to kill herself on that will tell her that she needs to be better, prettier, skinnier, richer. And those messages are false. So we need to bust the machine at home and how the mother is with the daughter, right?

47:48Dr. Shefali:Is the mother secure? Is the mother confident? Is the father respectful of the mother? Is the father attracted to the mother as she is, or does the father only get turned on when the mother is ultra sexy, right? How the father treats the mother is very important for the daughter to imbue a model of healthy female male sexuality.

48:11Shawn Stevenson:That's so good. Again, we usually look to the issue, like it's the kid, right? Instead of thinking about the environment and the modeling that we're doing ourselves.

48:22Dr. Shefali:There's so much we can do, which is not very difficult to do, but it takes us being conscious, right? If we're not conscious, then we won't even realize the impact we're having on our children. Yeah, that's one of those things

48:34Shawn Stevenson:where I look back with updated knowledge to like, I just wish I would have affirmed my daughter even more. I did, but it's just like in those moments and like just seeing her personality because what happens is, and you talk about this so well in the books as well, which is like the distancing that might happen and the annoyance. And you write from the perspective of kids and you've done sessions and worked with so many kids over the years and parents. And so you are putting together those experiences and your own experiences as well and speaking from their point of view.

49:11Dr. Shefali:Yes.

49:12Shawn Stevenson:And it's not like because, you know, this can feel like a rebellion phase or like they they're bothered by everything. That doesn't mean that we don't love. That doesn't mean that we don't adjust our own behavior, as you just mentioned, even letting go.

49:28Dr. Shefali:Yes.

49:29Shawn Stevenson:You know. And so can you talk a little bit about that, too, that kind of resistance that happens where it seems like I can't get through them anyway.

49:36Dr. Shefali:Right. We typically tend to feel helpless as parents. We are quick to judge ourselves and think that we failed. And when we feel like we failed, it pisses us off because we spend all this money, all this time. So instead of looking inward, we project that failure onto the kid and yell at the kid, call them a loser, tell them they're unmotivated, tell them they're lazy. But what we need to do is not feel like failures ourselves, have grace and compassion for ourselves. It's very difficult to parent. But also don't make your kid the enemy. Your kid is in their own way prey to culture just like you are.

50:17Dr. Shefali:and your kid is not lazy or evil or defective, your kid is probably dysregulated and overwhelmed, right? When you see your son on the couch and you're like, you're so lazy, you're a loser. No, that is male energy, which has nowhere to go. That is masculinity without a purpose. You know, when masculinity is given a purpose to contribute, to feel part of, that they're protecting, that they are driven, that they're challenged, Masculinity will never sit on a couch. That is lost purpose. So have compassion for your son that he's lost his purpose. Instead of yelling at him and shaming him, understand that that is masculinity that needs direction, that has lost its direction and become apathetic, right?

51:04Dr. Shefali:So I teach parents in both books how to reframe what is happening to their children based on neurochemistry, based on research. And when you dig below the surface, You can understand what your son is experiencing, what your daughter is feeling. And then I give you the strategies to help them. Yes.

51:25Shawn Stevenson:Yes. I know we're coming to a conclusion here, but there was a really great story that you talked about in Raising Conscious Sons with these kids. Again, true story. Yes. That would sneak out at night. Yeah. And they were going into all these seemingly dangerous situations and kind of just adventuring through New York City.

51:50Dr. Shefali:Yeah, like you did on the rooftops. These kids were doing. I was reminded of that.

51:55Shawn Stevenson:And so the parents were just terrified. Like they're sneaking out at night. What's wrong with them? Like you got different sets of parents and how they're responding.

52:02Dr. Shefali:Yeah.

52:02Shawn Stevenson:But all of them were just shocked, confused, angry, upset, sad, fearful. All the things you can imagine, which any parent would. Right. but you helped to really make sense of the situation. Talk about that.

52:14Dr. Shefali:Yeah. So these mothers actually came to me. Many of them were single mothers who were up in arms because their boys were sneaking out at night with each other. They were all mothers of the friends of these boys that were hanging out together, going out after midnight, coming back early morning, hanging out in deserted subways, going on trains, going on high-rise buildings, construction sites, looking on the prowl for danger and adventure and risk-taking to overcome the friction, right? They want a challenge to overcome. Think about it. It's a primal instinct. You had it. You had it when you were young.

52:53Dr. Shefali:You were just allowed to do it, so you did it in the daytime. But these kids, because they're supervised all the time, they are in activity after activity, there is no time, like you said, for unstructured free play. And so all that energy is just like where it needs to go somewhere. So they give up their sleep and go in the middle of the night looking for their brothers to conquer the world, to feel physical, to feel like they've achieved something through their body. This is exactly what testosterone does. And when I showed them that their boys were actually developmentally so on point, then they could see them differently.

53:29Dr. Shefali:And I encouraged them to do many things. I said, tell your sons to take you guys on their adventures in the daytime. time. Then follow them at night, right? If you want them to have adventures, follow them. You can be the safe people. And yes, don't go into deserted subways and stuff, but let them feel a sense of overcoming friction. That's what these boys are really dying for, yearning for. And I told them to enroll them in park four and, you know, different adventure things, take them to the, you know, take them to the mountainsides, take them hiking. These are boys who are throbbing with energy looking for release.

54:07Shawn Stevenson:Yeah, so good. And also you brought that point of wanting to be a part of something, to be a part of a pack.

54:14Dr. Shefali:Yes, that is so important, right? And when that is unhealthy, it becomes a cult or hazing at college universities. But it speaks to that same primal instinct of wanting to be with your brothers and initiate it through a rite of passage into adulthood.

54:30Shawn Stevenson:Yes. Is there a similar thing with girls as well? because you mentioned the oxytocin component.

54:37Dr. Shefali:But girls are always bonding, but the sisterhood is so vital. Ask any girl and she needs her sisters. She needs her friends, non-negotiable, because that is how we thrive. That is how we feel safe. We feel nurtured. We feel seen is through our community, our network. And girls are always building friendships, but friendships, when they go wrong for girls, it can feel like a physical injury. Like the same part of her brain lights up when she's rejected as if she was physically injured. So her connections mean the world to her. So we teach her to have healthy sisterhoods and not to compete with her sisters and that she needs to cooperate with them.

55:17And we show her what that looks like

55:20Dr. Shefali:through the mother having her own network of friends.

55:23Shawn Stevenson:Yeah.

55:24Dr. Shefali:Yeah.

55:24Shawn Stevenson:Well, as of the release of this episode, these two amazing books are available everywhere. The books are sold.

55:30Dr. Shefali:Thank you.

55:31Shawn Stevenson:Is there anything else that you want people to know how can they get more information, all that good stuff?

55:36Dr. Shefali:Yeah, I'd love them to come to my website because when they buy the books through my website, they get all these free gifts. I have masterclasses, summits, a 30-day free entry into my conscious community. I have courses that I'm giving away. And if people really want to do this work and go out there and be ambassadors of conscious parenting, I have an amazing institute. I train coaches to do this work with parents and change families one home at a time. So I need more ambassadors out there. So if anyone listening wants to do this work and be trained by me, they can go to my institute and explore whether this could be their next purpose.

56:15Shawn Stevenson:Amazing. So where's the information for that?

56:17Dr. Shefali:All on my website, drshifali.com.

56:21Shawn Stevenson:Amazing. We'll put that in the show notes, of course, for everybody. You're the best. I just appreciate you so much.

56:27Dr. Shefali:Thank you so much for having me.

56:28Shawn Stevenson:Of course, it's my honor. the one and only Dr. Shefali, everybody. Thank you so much for tuning into this episode today. I hope that you got a lot of value out of this. If you did, please share this conversation. You can send this directly to somebody that you care about from the podcast app that you're enjoying this on. Just shoot them a text, deliver some goodness, some inspiration, some support. You know, sometimes being a parent can seem like a very, very heavy solo job, but truly this sentiment has been going on for thousands of years that it takes a village and having access to education and also resources and support is more important than ever absolutely check out raising conscious sons and or raising conscious daughters these books are wonderful so rich with insights so rich with tactical things as well and again I really hope that you enjoyed this if you did take a screenshot of the episode and share it on social media you could share it on Instagram tag Dr.

57:36Shawn Stevenson:Shefali tag me I'm at Sean model you could share it on Facebook you could share it on X TikTok all over the place apparently MySpace is making a comeback too so So who knows? You could pop it over there as well. But just keep this conversation going. Let's make inspiration go viral. All right. And keep in mind, I've got some amazing, amazing masterclasses. I'm telling you now, amazing masterclasses and world leading experts coming your way very, very soon. So make sure to stay tuned. Take care. Have an amazing day. And I'll talk with you soon.