The Killer Food Culture That’s Controlling Your Health

29:43Let's just pick the things that are good for us, right?

29:46Shawn Stevenson:That's the cool thing today. You know, we have choice. Right. You know, but some people listening, I'm sure they've experienced the paradox of choice as well. There's so, so many options, so many experts saying different things could be confusing. So my principle that I would love if you would take on everybody listening is to ask yourself a simple question. What if humans been doing the longest? Right. You know, what were, what did my grandparents eat? You know what? This is something I got to eventually in my clinical practice, working with people every day. And there was a time, you know, 15 years ago, where it's like, if I was into something, you were gonna be into it.

30:28Shawn Stevenson:If I'm into raw foods, guess what? I'm creating programs around my beliefs at the time. Thankfully, over the span of several years, I had to get honest and say, yes, there are certain people just crushing it, getting great results. But there's always this percentage of people who are not. And I had to get honest about that and to do a better job. And everything changed when I started paying attention to the individual person in their life, looking at their sleep quality, asking them about their heritage. Like, where's your family come from? Right. So what did you eat traditionally? You know, I have a patient, for example, that lived in their grandparents came from Greece.

31:05Right.

31:05Shawn Stevenson:Right. And they were dealing with an autoimmune condition. So I started to bring up to you. So do you eat? What about this? They're like, no, you know, my grandma, you know, she used to make this stuff. But, you know, I was like, how about we swap this thing out and we add in more of that? She was like, I love that. I love that growing up. I didn't know that I could have that. You know, just like little things. And also there's this connective tissue there as well for people. But instead of getting into this diet dogma and using some glorified framework. Oh, for sure. I leaned into, let's personalize this and everything is available.

31:43Shawn Stevenson:Let's do what's best for you right now where you are. And giving you the awareness that it's probably going to change over time too. For sure. And to give you mental tools and cues to be able to switch things up when you need to. Right. You know, going back to the culture aspect of this, a lot of people tell me, a lot of my patients tell me like, oh, you know, we're around ultra processed food all the time. Like you mentioned, there's fast food restaurants everywhere. But I feel that your culture is something that you can create around you, right? And so you mentioned your kids, my kids as well.

32:19They rarely eat any fast food. They're eating mostly whole foods all the time because that's the culture of our family. We don't have that stuff at home. So it doesn't really matter what they see as we drive down the road. They just know what is okay for our family and why. I think it's key to explain why. Our friends also have a similar mindset. And so we kind of create this culture around us that ignores the external influences of marketing. That's what, like, red dye to me, like, yes, it was a massive thing. It got outlawed or, you know, FDA took it off, made it a banned substance. But it didn't really matter to us because nothing we ate had red dye in any way.

33:01Exactly. Right? Yeah.

33:03Shawn Stevenson:I don't eat ring pops anymore and, you know, these fake frostings or whatever. Maraschino cherries and things like that. The chocolate covered cherries. That was another one of my grandparents. My grandfather's favorite things was this maraschino cherries. Chocolate covered. But, you know, this is the point. And by the way, just a sidebar with that with this band. Yeah. All right. Let's talk about that. I've been talking about this for years with the FDA and their policies because it's just so many holes. and they're supposed to be this watchdog, but it's not really like that. That's a perfect example of the food industry just having way too much influence on the FDA, right?

33:39Shawn Stevenson:Oh, but listen, listen to this. So this was back in 1997. All right, so right around there, right around 1997, the FDA, and I went and pulled it up. This is the thing about it. There's been so many times that I'll find something and I'll popularize it that's right on the FDA site and then it'll be gone. All right, but as of right now, they published this it's on their website that they intended to remove the the red dye back in the 90s but they in their own words didn't have the resources to do it subsequently though they banned it in cosmetics yeah but not in food and so they literally said they were going to ban it in the 90s but did not do it because of lack of resources now they're incredibly wealthy most of the money of course is coming from the pharmaceutical industry about 75 of their scientific review budget is from the pharmaceutical industry but this is it was just a matter of importance and also again most people being unaware and so my question was all right we're okay so they're they're making this big move now banning red dye number three i i just invited people to think about did they just start with number three was there a red number two was there one what was there is there a four all of these have been banned back in like the 60s yeah you know uh Red dye, number one, was like causing liver cancer.

34:58Shawn Stevenson:And, you know, the list goes on. Gastrointestinal lesions by a certain yellow dye. Huge outbreak in digestive distress, like hospitalizations by kids after Halloween and these kids consuming an orange dye, for example. And then it gets banned, right? So it's been this pattern. And the pattern, what I want to wake people up to is that it's usually replaced with something that is similarly toxic. The food industry is like, okay, that didn't work. Let's create something other synthetic and then wait around for years, often decades for us to get caught instead of what is real, what is natural? What if humans been doing the longest?

35:38Shawn Stevenson:Yes, we can color things. Other countries have done this successfully, but the stuff looks different, right? The cereal, which again, that's arguable. Should we be eating that in the first place? But it looks different in Japan versus the United States or, you know, in Great Britain, whatever the case might be. Every country has its issues, but we're the king of these problems. We're the king of allowing all manner of this devastation. And so, you know, to just lean back into this and mentioning what you shared, and we actually went on a hike together with our two sons. And, you know, just being able to understand that we get to create the culture.

36:16Shawn Stevenson:And so we have a larger culture scape that we're all existing in. We have a macro culture. but we can create a microculture in our own household. I promise you, my son, and he will tell you this, my youngest son, he's not missing McDonald's. Not at all. It's not a big deal to him. Now, I'm also going to share this from the perspective of, I understand we live in the world, all right? And he goes to school, he goes to birthday parties. We're not the, and of course, like I've been through these levels, right? So, and we still have friends who do this. They might bring their own kid's slice of cake to the party.

36:54Shawn Stevenson:You know, we're not those parents. You know what I mean? So he's been exposed to things. But here's the cool thing. Because of the culture, he knows what it feels like. Sure. He knows what it feels like when he eats this stuff. And he doesn't feel that great. And so he's just like, this just happened. He just had a basketball game. He's 13. And he just had a basketball game with his school. Moms got together, bought a bunch of pizzas. You know, like, I don't want it. I'm like, B, it's cool. Just, you know, like, you know, he's like, nah, I'm good. He doesn't want it. I can try and source it, you know, but he doesn't want it.

37:28No, no. And, you know, our sons are very similar. My son will pass by McDonald's on the way home. He's starving. I'm like, you want to just stop by McDonald's and get something? He's like, no, I don't want to go to McDonald's. I just want to get home and eat at home. Or let's go to, you know, a restaurant where you can get something that is real food. And I'm not saying that to brag to the audience or anything. like that is just like you said, it's a microculture that you create within your family and the priorities that you put as top of the list for your family, right? And so if food is not one of the top things in the priority list for your family, I don't know what else would be there, right?

38:08I mean, obviously it's like food is part of your, you know, Maslow's hierarchy, right? It's like shelter, food, safety. We need to make this a priority for our family and make this something that we put some intentionality behind, I think, right?

38:21Shawn Stevenson:We just don't know that it matters when it really boils down to it. I know that I didn't. And I did really well in school, but I was oblivious to this. Yeah, I think we all were, right? Biology class in college, all right? My son's school now, they have a class. His science class is called The Science of You. All right, so they're relating it back to him. Oh, that's fantastic. I'm just like, this is what we're paying for, all right? One little up, you know? But things change over time. And it's often difficult, of course, to have our kids in these environments. But that's a whole, with the education system, that's a conversation for another day.

38:59Shawn Stevenson:But when I was in my university biology class, it didn't relate to me. So we're studying the cell. You learn more about the frog than you do you. Yeah, why am I dissecting this worm? What is this? And I get it. There's some people that are fascinated by that, but it didn't relate to me. I was not made aware, nor was my teacher even aware. that when we're looking at this cell membrane, that that membrane is made by your menu. Right. Right. Absolutely. That the mitochondria is made by the meals that you eat, that the nucleus is made by the nutrients that you eat. That's so true. Right? There's a disconnect.

39:37Shawn Stevenson:The cells that we're studying is if I'm looking at food, it's food. We get to choose what we're making these things out of. And there are certain things that will damage these cells. and there are certain things that will help them to thrive. And so creating more connective tissue, helping people to realize how powerful food, like you're choosing what you're making your cells out of. You get to choose. Do you want shitty cells or do you want really healthy, resilient, vibrant cells? All the way to the mitochondria as well. Are you giving yourself the nutrients needed to stimulate mitochondrial genesis, like to create more mitochondria?

40:14Shawn Stevenson:Are you getting enough magnesium in your diet, for example? Are you getting in all these different things from real food predominantly to help your body do all the cool stuff that it can do to keep you healthy, to feel good? And again, most of us, it's a very superficial thing. When I was in college and, you know, I had a college level nutritional science class, big auditorium class. Just thinking back on what I thought food was, and I left there with the same thought, which is food is about basically weight loss or weight gain. Yeah. You know, very rudimentary, like make sure you tell people to get all their vitamins and minerals.

40:52Shawn Stevenson:What the hell does that even mean? Right. And this was the time of the food pyramid, by the way. Yeah, exactly. You know, even and this is an important point, too, when we were taught about getting all your vitamins and minerals, like, for example, you know, make sure people are getting vitamin C. Yeah. There's different forms of vitamin C, different forms of vitamin D, B12, magnesium. the list goes on and on. There's so many different forms. Now people know there's different forms of magnesium, but we were not taught any of this, right? It's just like, because of that framing, it's just take a pill.

41:22Shawn Stevenson:Take a multivitamin and you're good. Take your Centrum, right? That's synthetic, whatever, you know, and just, but it's looking at our health through this very microscopic lens. When in reality, food is what makes us who we are. When you look in the mirror, you're seeing the food that you've eaten. Yeah. Every cell in our body is made out of food at some point and is constantly in renewal. And the substrates for those cells come from the foods that we put into our mouths every single day and from the environment that we expose ourselves to. And it's such an important point because, you know, we're not so separated from the foods biologically.

42:04We are made out of them.

42:05Shawn Stevenson:Yeah. And if you think about that very point, how distant are we now from where our food comes from? Absolutely. Very distant. I mean, what percentage of Americans have grown any of their own food in their homes? Right? It's exceedingly rare. Exceedingly rare. And even farmers today. It's monocropic. It's just like, the whole game has changed. Yes. You know, this reminds me of the red dye. I remember growing up again, like having these little juices. Yeah, I always a fan of different sodas and things like that, but I really love the drink, like grape drink, apple drink. Yes. Right. And I would get this this grape drink or fruit punch was my favorite from Prairie Farms.

42:52Shawn Stevenson:Right. Prairie Farms is right there. It said farmer owned. It's a little banner on it. It says zero percent juice on there. It's like propylene glycol, high fructose corn syrup, water, red dye, number whatever, you know, blue dye. and in reality again it created this perception of wholesomeness it's from prairie farms right and it's farmer owned like this is this is wholesome it's they're delivering this it's on the store shelves sure but i don't know many farmers like in the not even traditional sense but just in the sense of being a farmer who's like whipping up propylene glycol and red dye 40 and, you know, hot produce corn syrup in a vat, like it's Breaking Bad, you know, like, they're not cooking up.

43:39Shawn Stevenson:That's not a farmer. That's not a farmer, you know? So even farming, in the true sense of what that is, is exceedingly rare, you know? But it doesn't have to be that way. And there are, this is the same thing in our country, the grassroots movements to change things. That red dye getting banned, that was through a grassroots movement of science-backed entities who can just compiling all this data over time and forcing the FDA's hand. Whereas in Europe in particular, companies have to prove, and this is not true across the board, but largely that the newly invented synthetic ingredient is safe before adding it.

44:23Shawn Stevenson:Here, it can be added, and then it's on the public oftentimes and grassroots movements to say, this is harming us. Let's do something about it because of the grass, right? Generally recognized as safe. As safe, right. Right, this loophole. It's not even a loophole. It's a gaping, it's a gorge. I just saw a billboard for a movie Gorge. Yeah. It's a gorge in our system. It's a gorge in our system, right? I mean, look, and there's enough stuff out there that a great change right now, like we don't need any more new chemicals in our food, right? We don't need another red dye. 20 ,000 is good, you know?

44:57Shawn Stevenson:That's enough. I mean, it's a good time in the current state of where our society is to just put a stop to all of this and say, prove it safe before you put in our food, right? And you brought up another great point. It's a deceptive marketing practices of these food companies as well, which is so, it's just irritating and annoying now to even walk into a supermarket and see the stuff in green boxes and marked as healthy and good for you. and just trickery and the falsification involved just in plain sight. It's just mind-blowing, right? Now, the cool thing is, but it's also, it's a paradox because this shouldn't be like this anyways.

45:38Shawn Stevenson:But now we have real data on this and we're able to see where the bodies are buried essentially with these food companies and see their practices. There's, and actually I cited one of the studies in the East Marter Family Cookbook on marketers for cereal companies and using very specific tactics to manipulate children, right? And so one of the studies that they did was bringing in a bunch of kids and having them to have some cereal, right? This is a new cereal that we're creating and rating their enjoyment on a five-face, smiley-face scale, right? How many smiley faces do you give this? Yeah. Now they give the kids a cereal, same cereal, but it has a mascot on the box.

46:22Shawn Stevenson:as a cartoon mascot, the kids across the board rated the cereal higher that had the mascot, higher on the smiley point scale because they related to the cartoon character, right? And companies, they've been known this. They use this. They created, so the eyes are looking a certain way. Right. When you go down the aisle, obviously the colors and these cereals, let's just be honest. Toucan Sam with the big eyes. Man, Toucan Sam, bro. So, but these - Two Can Sam probably killed a lot of people, you know, over time, you know? I mean, it's like that is garbage, right? Tony the Tiger, you know, the Snap Crackle Pop guys, you know, they're all just like, there's a - Public enemy number one.

47:07Shawn Stevenson:There's a movie on Netflix. It was done by, I think Jerry Seinfeld created it. And it was a story about Pop-Tart's origin and this battle between like Post and, you know, whatever the other company was. And so they had these different characters, right? So like the cereal characters. And so here's the thing. We have to, again, we're born into conditions where we don't realize it's happening. I didn't know. I just wanted the Fruity Pebbles because they tasted good. And I had a great food experience with it. And the crunch. And they have scientists that like, actually are food scientists that put - They're geniuses.

47:45They're geniuses. And for anyone out there that thinks that this is not an extremely intentional, a lot of money put behind every marketing drawing, the colors, the, like you said, the kids in a room, the focus groups, the scientists that study the texture of food, the addictability of food. Like it is a massive, billions of dollars being spent on this to get you addicted to it and get you to buy it.

48:13Shawn Stevenson:One of the greatest inventions and also demise of us is a gas chromatograph. So scientists were able to isolate flavors, right? So what makes that cherry flavor? What's the chemistry that makes that flavor? And now they could add that cherry flavor to things that aren't cherry, all right? And so this really muddied up the waters of our food intelligence because there's something really special about us as humans out there's a lot of really special things, of course, but I'm just thinking about my wife. but there are a lot of things special about us, but we have a very diverse and intelligent flavor palette.

48:51Shawn Stevenson:Yes. All right. The nose that we have, we can't sniff out like, you know, we think like comparatively, like that dog can smell like who's got the cocaine at the airport. We can't do that, but we can taste the most subtle things, you know, and this is if you've never thought about, like do you think about people with the wine tasting? For example, I taste a hint of, you know. Oh, absolutely. cherry dirt and a rusty nickel like you know what i mean like you could find these really unique flavors but understanding that and understanding how these food manufacturers manipulate our senses and this is a very powerful evolutionary adaptation that we developed on our sense of taste and our sense of smell because the taste of things were indicative of the nutrition in it sure so So there's something called post-ingestive feedback.

49:43Shawn Stevenson:All right. And so, for example, if we were to eat a real cherry, our body would take notes, essentially, in a way, a memory of what nutrients came along with that flavor. Right. So doing this all subconsciously, like we have no idea in our brain, but. Thousands upon thousands upon thousands of years, this is just how it is. And so if you think about what a craving is. Right. Why do we have it? we're just messed up our design is just messed up why do we crave things this is an evolutionary adaptation it's an advantage right to know when we need something we have to have a craving for it all right so we'll use that cherry example okay we got some vitamin c we got a food source of melatonin that's interesting in this cherry we got some anthocyanins we've got whatever so you get all these different nutrients and when you start to get deficient on a certain thing your body's like, you know, those cherries had that vitamin C that you need.

50:41Shawn Stevenson:You should go find some cherries, right? Great plan, right? Great way of living. Today, it's no longer the case because our flavor palette has been hijacked, right? And so we develop cravings and intentionally for all these abnormal things that post-ingestive feedback has been massively disrupted. And so if we are deficient on something we don't even know what to do what it usually brings about by the way is hunger when you're deficient whether it's magnesium vitamin c omega-3s whatever your body is screaming at you like i'm deficient yeah bring some food in here so i can get this stuff right i'm gonna go grab some doritos and a sandwich right because we keep feeding this infinite hole and not getting the things that our body's actually calling out for so this is one of the big hallmarks with taking back control of our metabolic health and beating obesity is addressing this epidemic of hunger.

51:45Shawn Stevenson:You know, we've got to address our micronutrient needs. Micronutrient and macronutrient deficiencies leads to chronic overeating. Right. We need the things that our body's actually asking for so we can just get the baseline. Right. Got a quick break coming up. We'll be right back. Summer is here and it's time for some summer fun. Suns out, guns out or buns out, however you want to slice and dice it. It's time to get out there and enjoy life and enjoy fitness. Now, as you know, especially when it's hotter outside and you're sweating, you need to make sure that you are staying optimally hydrated and making sure that you're getting in adequate amounts of electrolytes.

52:26Shawn Stevenson:Electrolytes are key minerals that carry an electric charge that enable your body to do all the stuff that your body does, whether this is your heart beating, your brain functioning, your muscles moving, everything that's going on in your body. Electrolytes are required to do those jobs. Three of the most critical electrolytes that you need to target, sodium, potassium, and magnesium. There's a sodium potassium pump that's behind pretty much all of our cellular processes and the energy that our cells are making via the mitochondria is deeply dependent on not just the sodium potassium pump, but magnesium to be present in order to actually make new mitochondria.

53:09Shawn Stevenson:The bottom line is for optimal physical performance and cognitive performance, we've got to make sure that we're being proactive in getting ourselves hydrated and utilizing the very best electrolytes possible. Number one, get plenty of electrolytes through eating real foods. It's super important. But also, this is a great place to supplement. But when you do that, you want to make sure that you're getting the number one clean electrolyte supplement in the world. It has no sugar, no artificial dyes, and results that you really notice. And right now, just in time for summer, the number one electrolyte supplement in the world from Element has a brand new lemonade salt that you're absolutely going to love.

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54:36Shawn Stevenson:You get to try out their brand new lemonade salt plus that incredible free sample pack. Head over to drinkelement.com forward slash model. And now back to the show. I think you said something really key there, which is micronutrient and macronutrient deficiency leads to hunger. So like you were saying, another great example is pica, right? That's when people eat dirt because their body knows it needs iron, and they're eating dirt. Chalk. Yeah, chalk, right, exactly, because they're trying to find iron. And that's built into our neural pathways as almost like a subconscious reaction about what we need, to your point about the cherries, right?

55:17And so I think when you're hungry, it might not be that you're low on energy. It might be a lot of times that you're hungry for nutrition, like real nutrition, nutrient-dense food. And that's why when you're eating the ultra processed food, which is minimally nutritious, very low nutrient density, you stay hungry and then you keep eating more and more of it, which leads to obesity.

55:40Shawn Stevenson:Yeah. Right? Sounds like a great business model. Right. Exactly. If you're trying to sell more food. But I mean, for people that are having trouble with, and this is one of the first things I do for people that are having trouble with weight loss is we look at their micronutrient levels and we find massive amounts of micronutrient deficiencies. and a lot of people are like, how am I deficient? I'm eating all the time. Well, you're eating food that's not nutrient dense. That's the issue. Yeah, it's such a key unlock, I think. You know, a lot of people talk about calories in, calories out is what leads to weight loss or weight gain.

56:15But it's just such a simplistic view of what's really happening.

56:19Shawn Stevenson:Yeah, I love the analogy, of course. I've said this many times over the years that it's looking at the human body as a calculator. Right. And it's just, we're so much more dynamic. And, you know, and even, you know, one of the things I did in my last book in Eat Smarter was I took people through. And this is the first book to do this. And I'm honored to say where the hell calorie came from. Yeah. Right. So going back to the origins, which started in physics, this had nothing to do with nutrition. and you know um looking at how calories were measured but how they're actually put on packages today is radically different it's they're not using a bomb calorimeter and like incinerating the food and seeing how much it eats the water and all that no they're just using it's called the at water system it's just a generous kind of like grass yeah you know just like it's sort of this you know whatever but even in that in its intention your body is not a bomb calorimeter when you don't incinerate a food, all right?

57:16Shawn Stevenson:Your body, there's a lot of things in a food that aren't even digested or their net. You know, it's just like, we are so much more complex. And looking through that lens is, it is really making people, it has created so much confusion and so much unnecessary struggle. And I appreciate, because I've been that, I've been in this field for 22 years now where we're looking at calories, right? I've been through that phase. And I appreciate the people who found great success with that. But you're probably going to find that most people are not successful following this calorie management idea because it's not looking at how the food impacts your overall metabolic health.

58:02Shawn Stevenson:Because your body, how your body associates with the calories from the exact same food can be dramatically different from week to week. Right. All right. And there's certain foods that there's certain conditions, right? So if people have issues with their thyroid, for example, this can slow their metabolic rate dramatically. Absolutely, right. And yet they're eating a thousand calories a day because they're told, like, I just got to cut my calories. And they're not only not losing weight, they could be even gaining weight. How is that possible? How is that possible? Right. The body is smarter than your calculator.

58:40Shawn Stevenson:All right. it matters. It is a thing. It is something that we try to use to make sense of something we can't make sense of. It is far too complex. Where we are today, just one of the things is the impact of our microbiome on how our body absorbs and metabolizes calories. All right. We've got some really cool studies on this and labels of like, quote, fat bacteria and being able to absorb more from the food that you're eating. But this is going to bring us back to a very important point here the quality of the food itself right all right um there's a study that was done in food and nutrition research and they had test subjects to eat sandwiches one was considered to be a whole food sandwich which was whole grain bread and cheddar cheese all right okay versus an ultra processed sandwich which was white bread and cheese product right which is like craft singles right okay after compiling all the data and by the way the sandwiches are the exact same amount of calories, fats, proteins, carbohydrates, same, should impact them the same.

59:45Shawn Stevenson:When people ate the ultra processed food sandwich, they had about a 50 % reduction in their calorie burn after eating that sandwich. Their body just held on to more of the calories they just consumed for some strange reason. The food itself is a factor. It's not just the calories. It's how your body associates with those calories. Yeah. And I can go on and on with that. But, you know, it's just we're oversimplifying the wrong stuff. Yes, I agree. You know, the same goes for exercise. Not to get off food, but the same goes for exercise. I think, you know, I grew up in a time where if you want to lose weight, you just stay on that treadmill and keep burning calories on a little calorie meter, a little digital readout of how many calories you burn.

1:00:29So if you eat a donut, then you'd go on the treadmill for an hour and try to burn 300 calories to make up for that donut. And what happens? The body is so much more complex than that. Sure, you burn 300 calories, but now you're hungry. You're inflamed. You're, you know, you're dehydrated. There's so much more going on.

1:00:49Shawn Stevenson:Your insulin levels are bonkers. Exactly, exactly. And so these are all the things that people need to think about. Sure, like you said, if you had a bomb calorimeter, it would all work out. But we are not bomb colorimeters. We are a complex system of not just our biology, but the biology of the microbiome that's inside of us as well. And the microbiome controls our hunger, probably even more than our brain does because of the signals from our gut to our brain through our microbiome. And this is all, we need to consider all of this. But in reality, it's a lot simpler than having to worry about any of this stuff.

1:01:26Because in reality, going back to the beginning of this conversation, is just swearing off ultra processed food, right? 95 % of the time, don't eat anything ultra processed. Sure, once in a while you go to a birthday party, you need to, fine. But for the most part, you shouldn't. And create a culture around that for your family and the people you hang with.

1:01:45Shawn Stevenson:Yeah, just let's make it the exception and not the rule. Right. Right. And so I'm a big fan. Like we live in the world, all right? We live here in the United States. That's where this is getting recorded. There is a lot of like food party stuff. All right. There's a lot of mouth pleasure out there. No, I'm sorry. There's a lot of different things. We got to edit that.

1:02:15Shawn Stevenson:It's because you came in. I was like, I dropped it in there. All right. So anyways, there are a lot of incredible things for us to, to enjoy, right? To experiment with. But if we're coming into this with a foundation of real food, you know, number one, chances are this other stuff isn't going to be that attractive. And you're going to notice when you have it. Like, it's just not going to taste the same. I remember after I'm from St. Louis. All right. So one of the iconic places in St. Louis is Emo's Pizza. Thin crust, St. Louis style pizza. All right. I grew up. I was probably like at least like 2.5 % Emo's Pizza.

1:02:51Shawn Stevenson:All right. And I remember, you know, it was probably 10 years of working in health and eating real food. And I, my oldest son, he wanted Emo's pizza for a birthday party with his friends. It was like paintball and Emo's was like the things that he wanted. And so I remember taking a piece of the pizza and I was like, this doesn't taste real. You know, this tastes like pasty. You know, it's just like, it's not like I remembered, you know, and I just wasn't impressed. It didn't encourage me to have more, you know. Happened to my pizza. Right, right. Now, we do have those moments as well. But the best thing that we can do, and this is going to circle us back, you know, just to complete this, is let's make it so that it's easy to eat good things.

1:03:40Shawn Stevenson:With this being said, coming from where I come from, I love flavor. Right. I'm not one of these people that's like, eat to live. You got to eat to live. Don't live to eat. That's actually abandoning. And again, just as a scientist, that's abandoning reason because what drives us to eat things is that they taste good. It's built into us. We're not wired to eat to live. Right, exactly. We're kind of wired up to gorge on things that taste good. But also, again, living in a natural environment so that we can survive. But we've evolved this very unique flavor palette and we're driven to eat things that taste good.

1:04:18Shawn Stevenson:And that's okay. hey, let's support that. Let's not go so far that we're hyper stimulating and damaging ourselves with all this fake stuff. Let's find the joy in real food. And so part of doing this is, again, creating that microculture in our own household. It's easier to make healthier food decisions based on the data if we're eating with our friends and family on a consistent basis. All right. So another study, and this was for me about access, because growing up after I left from living living with my grandmother, living with my mom, my stepbrother, stepsister, stepfather, this is my little brother and sister.

1:04:54And my mom, I can count on my hands

1:04:58Shawn Stevenson:how many times we ate together. And I'm not exaggerating. I can count on my hands. It's probably a holiday, you're there. But it's usually me and my brother and sister just getting food and eating somewhere. Right? Sometimes my mom would eat with us sometimes, but most of the time it's just like grab and go, we scatter. and had my mom known the data i'm sure she could have made an adjustment and just been more intentional about us eating together but she didn't know just like most parents do not know i know that i didn't know until i got this data and so this study analyzed the eating behaviors of minority children who were generally in the context of low-income environment like i come from and the research is because that was my thing like my mom wasn't around that much you know my My stepfather wasn't around that much.

1:05:44They were working.

1:05:45Shawn Stevenson:This sounds like this data is for people who have access. No. But what they found was that when these children ate four meals with a caregiver, an adult, somebody who, a parent, four meals a week could have been any meal. Breakfast, lunch, dinner, didn't matter. Four meals a week, these kids ate dramatically less ultra-processed foods, namely chips and soda. They ate five servings, five or more servings of fruits and vegetables five days a week. Wow. All right. And obviously they had far better health outcomes. Yeah. But the researchers noted, this was the rub, when the television was never or rarely on during mealtimes.

1:06:22Shawn Stevenson:Makes sense. All right. There's something about that TV being on, you know. And so this was super encouraging for me because no matter where we are, no matter where we come from, we can be intentional about eating together because it's going to support the health outcomes of everybody, especially our children. Let me share something for adults, tech workers. So a study was done looking at workers at IBM, and they found this is going to get to why this works. They found that the participants were able to consistently get home, quote, get home in time for dinner. Their work morale stayed high. Work stress stayed manageable.

1:07:02Shawn Stevenson:Productivity stayed high. But as soon as things started cutting to their ability to eat dinner with their families, work morale starts to plummet. Stress elevates and their productivity goes down. This is Captain Obvious stuff, but we don't think about it when we're in it. All right. Eating with their families helped them to metabolize stress. It helped them to process the stress that they were carrying from the work that they're doing. We need that outlet. We need to quote, unplug. But what we usually do is we go from one plug to the next. Sure. We go from that plug in our stressful job or whatever the case might be, traffic.

1:07:36Shawn Stevenson:Right now, people only knew what you had to do to get here today because of the fires. But that and then going and just getting right on technology, we're not getting a chance. There's a difference between relaxation and restoration. Sure. There's a difference. Right. And we're not getting a chance to actually switch over to that parasympathetic, what's the nickname? Rest and digest. Right. Rest and digest nervous system. We're chronically in fight or flight. And we might have the feelings of being relaxed, like we're laying, watching TV, eating snacks, whatever. And there's a place for that. But if you want to be restored, sit down and eat with your family, eat with people that you care about, be around real people because our chemistry change changes.

1:08:18Shawn Stevenson:And this is getting to the point that IBM study was highlighting something, which is a big part of this is being around people you care about. Our chemistry changes are, of course, thoughts create chemistry in our bodies, but a lot of stuff is happening unconsciously. subconsciously, we start producing more things like oxytocin. And this is one of the hormones that it, of course, there's been a lot of revelations recently. People call it the cuddle hormone or love hormone, but this is one that is really risen to the top because it has a nullifying effect on cortisol. Amazing. Right. And I talked about this years ago, my first book, Sleep Smarter, I talked about oxytocin.

1:08:55Shawn Stevenson:And so now we know that that's one of the things kind of counteracting, help you to metabolize stress, calm down, oxytocin. There are a ton of different neurotransmitters and hormones that are changing when we're around people that we care about because what it's activating really is the overall feeling of safety. Safety, man. Right? Feeling seen, feeling like we matter, feeling a part of something. These are all deep psychological human needs, right? so this is more of the kind of meta perspective of what's happening physically a change is happening with that switch over from the parasympathetic from this sympathetic to the parasympathetic but i want to give a very practical psychological thing when we sit down and we eat with our children and i want to give some tips too if that's okay please i would love them yeah okay when we sit down and eat with our children which is again it's becoming an endangered activity in our society today our children today more than ever even with their when they're with their friends they're not with their friends right that is true they're together but they're separate they're together but they're on their devices i've seen it i've seen these kids hanging out and they're all on their phones they might share a meme a little laugh like look at this meme but they're disconnected all right this is their chance and they're missing and of course you see the obviously massive epidemics of mental health, metabolic health, the list goes on and on.

1:10:25Shawn Stevenson:There's a reason part of sitting down and eating with your children, you get to see them. They get to feel seen. When the phone, when the technology is not in the way, someone is seeing them and letting them know that they matter. You get a chance to listen to them, to listen to the sound of their voice, to hear what's going on in their life. And we need this. We need to feel like we matter. We And so we're helping to feed and putting in these psychological nutrients that help our kids to thrive. And the same thing for us, too. But we're going to miss out on that if we're not being intentional about it.

1:11:03And so one of the tips is, and this is one of the most science-backed things you could do right now,

1:11:09Shawn Stevenson:when you have that family dinner or dinner with a significant other friend, leave the phone out of it. Don't even have it sitting on the table. It should not be all possible. because one of the studies that I share in the book, even having it in the line of sight led to disruptions. People literally, they're strapped to these brain monitors, all this stuff. Their brains were distracted just when their phone was near them. Because that phone, our brains, it's always looking to automate. Your brain knows there's a lifetime of goodies in that phone, right? And so you might be trying to listen to your friend, but there's part of your brain that's like, yo, there's some stuff on Instagram right now.

1:11:47Shawn Stevenson:Like I could, so getting the phone out of your line of sight, putting it away. Not even in your pocket, I would say. Yeah. Because then you're anticipating a buzz, right? You're anticipating a buzz. You're anticipating it to ring. It's too easy, right? Is it on your person? Was it in a book bag? Whatever the case might be. Right. A lot of times, and I'm just being a thousand, I'm the guy who doesn't bring their phone into the restaurant. Right. If we're, you know, even if we sit down to watch a movie together, I leave my phone in the kitchen, you know, on the kitchen counter. Our table, make your dinner table a phone-free zone.

1:12:19Shawn Stevenson:Make it a phone-free zone. And some families have, because of the extent of the addiction, you know, some families have like a little lock box. Everybody puts their phone in before dinner or whatever. It doesn't have to go that far, but make it a phone-free zone. But here's the rub. Because we're addicted, we have to replace it with something of equal or greater value. You can't just be like, get off your phone, John. you know, Sarah, get off your phone, come to dinner. We're going to have a nice family dinner. I was listening to this really handsome guy on Darshan's show. And he said, I'm sorry, just kidding.

1:12:54Shawn Stevenson:Just kidding. But to replace it with something of greater or equal value. So what does that look like? Being intentional about creating something that is memorable and enjoyable for our kids. Now, this is where it gets, this is where the work comes in. All right. We have a culture that's like something for nothing. Right. All right. Easy. We want it easy. Yeah. But in reality, every you get to choose your heart because if you're not doing this, you're going to see the fallout in your family and in your health. If you do this, it might be challenging initially, but you're going to see everybody thriving.

1:13:35And so part of this, I'm just going to give an example of a family that I worked with.

1:13:43Shawn Stevenson:And they have multiple kids. All right. So two kids and the two kids have drastically different personalities. All right. They always do. Of course. Of course. And so one of the kids is very like detail oriented, you know, likes to know what time everything's happening. You can cater to that, but you have to pay attention to your child. Let them know what's going on. Maybe, you know, this is another tip. Actually, I'm embedded in here. According to the data, the minimum effective dose is three days a week. Pick which days those are. Yeah. Make it always those three days. Monday, Wednesday, brunch on Sunday.

1:14:24Shawn Stevenson:whatever the kid whatever looks like for you and your family but schedule it this is another science back tip because it creates a tangibility sure we got all this other stuff on the calendars i saw one of your employees out here yeah her calendar looked bonkers i mean i saw that it made me a little uncomfortable all right it's a lot of stuff on the calendar but where's her time for her where's her time for her family she's got to make sure that that's on the calendar too schedule it make it real it creates some tangibility to it also three meals a week is the minimum effective dose and so circling back to invite that child in who knows you know they like to be on their technology they're a big fan of desserts right so just knowing like okay so you know tonight we're going to have the um the pumpkin uh the pumpkin muffin right the pumpkin muffins from the eat Smarter Family Cookbook is going to be the dessert.

1:15:17Shawn Stevenson:Or you can ask them, like get them involved. It was another thing that was very helpful with them is to get them involved by giving them choices. And this is pretty true for all of us, but like, hey, do you want the frozen yogurt cherry pops or do you want the pumpkin muffins tonight? Right. Oh, pumpkin muffins. Right. And so just getting them involved and what is to come. Another thing was, and this is for the other kid, loved games, right? Loved like activities. And so you can embed that in to, you know, show some attention to the other kid. Right. And so knowing that after dinner, they're going to get to play a game or I had no idea, but there are some families that actually have games during dinner.

1:16:01Shawn Stevenson:Right. Right. So they're like maybe playing a board game or, you know, some kind of a, you know, charades or whatever the case might be. Heads up. You know, there's so many different things, but like bringing in things that are memorable. So now I'm going to use myself an example. for whatever and this was not i'm not gonna say it's not intentional but it just it just kind of happened you know we were having family dinners but for somehow some way we ended up like it would like evolve into like dance battle or a rap battle all right and so it evolved to the place where my youngest son had ipad and somebody would like make a beat on the ipad right a little like whatever little rickety beat and then it got to a place i went on amazon and bought a microphone and just like we literally passed around a microphone it just became part of family dinners yeah and what you what you focus on expands what you focus on expands the week that this cookbook came out i went on good morning america and it was cool it was fun but one of the most memorable experiences of my life.

1:17:10Shawn Stevenson:I went on a show called Sway in the Morning, and Sway was really iconic for being an MTV VJ back in the day, but he's a big part of hip-hop culture. Just within that month, LL Cool J was there, Missy Elliott, all these iconic people in music, and I went there to, of course, which is amazing. Maybe they might be listening right now, but Tracy, one of his co-hosts, and sway, of course, listen to my show. You know what I'm saying? Like listen, follow me and you never know who's listening. And so I came there to talk about empowerment and to just, you know, and it was amazing. Like it was electric in the room, just sharing some information about health and taking some questions and things like that.

1:17:57Shawn Stevenson:And I thought the interview was over. So when artists come on this show, they freestyle, they do a freestyle rap. I'm not an artist, I'm an author. All right. All right. I'm a scientist. But little did I know, when I was walking in, when Sway introduced himself to my two sons, my youngest son is now, he's 13, and my oldest son is 24. But at the time, they were like two years, younger, a year younger, whatever. This is in New York? This is in New York. Yes, you brought your kids with you and everything. That's great. So when my oldest son dapsed up Sway, like met him, shook his hand, hug, he whispered in Sway's ear, my dad can freestyle.

1:18:37Oh, no way.

1:18:39Shawn Stevenson:I had no idea. Your son said that to Sway. All right. So I'm sitting there thinking the interview is over. Like, that was awesome. Like, I'm ready to go. Let's go get some food. And then his producer, DJ, puts on his song. Starts putting the music on. And like, Sway just started getting hype. I'm like, okay, wow, this is interesting. I wonder what's going on here. I'm just, I'm oblivious. And then he was like, I heard there was a, you know, healthy, you know, hyena in the house, whatever. And I'm just like, what has happened? You could see my face on the YouTube video. I'm like, what is going on?

1:19:09Shawn Stevenson:I was like, okay, let's go. So, you know, I just started freestyling off of what was in the room, you know? So cool. And it was amazing. I've never seen them flip out so much with any of the artists that come on there because it's not expected of me. Yes. You're an author, right? What we focus on expands. A part of my family culture reached its way out to impact the lives of thousands of people that were listening live. Maybe, you know, tens of thousands, whatever the case might be. Um, and it was like an extension and the message in that is wherever you go, you take your culture with you. Sure.

1:19:44Shawn Stevenson:All right. That micro culture you create is influential to the larger culture. Sure. Potentially, if you, if you choose to, to demonstrate it. Right. And so I did this freestyle. I was like, I even put my sons into the song, you know, into the bars. You know, I brought the cookbook into the bars and, you know, it was amazing, man. That's awesome. And that experience is something I will never forget. And it was like, again, something that feeds into itself. And so what you will find, my message is what you will find is that when you invest in creating that microculture, you're going to see it flower and present itself in the most amazing ways you don't expect.

1:20:24Shawn Stevenson:I'm not saying you're going to have to freestyle at a parent teacher conference or anything like that. I'm not saying that. But something magical is going to happen. some things magical will happen when you choose to create that healthy microculture no matter what's going on out there in the world you get to decide the culture you create in your own household make it easy to be healthy make it easy for your kids to make good choices it's going to take some work you're going to have to pay attention to your kids and i'm saying this with love and i i'm saying this because i've made mistakes too i'm not i'm nowhere near perfect.

1:21:00With that being said, our kids need us.

1:21:03Shawn Stevenson:Yeah. Pay attention to them, see them. A lot of times we don't want to make that choice. I'm just being a thousand. Sometimes it's like, just need to get, get your ass in here and eat. You know what I'm saying? Exactly. This isn't a democracy. Right. Versus having the energy because I'm taking care of myself to be more judicious, to be more patient and kind and perceptive and pay attention, this all starts to feed back into itself. It's going to take some work because, I don't know if anybody's ever seen the show Yellowstone, but I'm sure everyone's in that show. There can be a bath in the family.

1:21:39Shawn Stevenson:There can be a bath in the family. She's always causing problems at dinner. You might have a family member like that, but love on them. You know them better than anybody. You know your significant other better than anybody, but a lot of times because we're tired. We're just like, I don't want to deal with this. Right. I don't want to have to play the game with you. Right. But this, they have their personality. We know what they like. We know what motivates them, what demotivates them. The same with our kids. Right. So do the work, invest in yourself. Number one, which is, I know it's crazy. It's hard.

1:22:14Shawn Stevenson:It's hard to do. And this is, I'm involved in this too. Invest in yourself, but invest in your family, Pay attention to them. Invite them in. Make them a part of it. All right? The more inputs that you can get, give them choices. You know, but follow these tips. Number one, three meals a week. Put it on the calendar. It's a minimum effective dose. Do this for yourself and your family. Number two, make it a phone-free zone. All right? Your family deserves this. You deserve it. Number three, it has to be replaced with something of greater equal value. It's going to take you to listen to your kids, figure out what that is, and implement those things.

1:22:53Shawn Stevenson:Whether it is some kind of artsy thing that happens at dinner after dinner, you know, singing or... We do high-low what-the-hecks. What's the best part of your day, the lowest part of your day, and something funny or crazy that happened to you? We call it high-low what-the-hecks. We do it at every single dinner. Brings out some stories about school. They get to hear what we did during the day. I hear what they did during the day. and they had no idea like what my highs or lows were during the day before this. And so it's been a game changer for us. And then we played like the humming game. Guess what song I'm humming?

1:23:26So exactly like what you're saying, like, you know, have some structure and intentionality around that dinner moment. Because this usually for most families, it's the only moment you'll have that day with the family. Right?

1:23:38Shawn Stevenson:It's time to limited, man. Exactly. You know, like your kids grow up before you know it truly. Like these are the times, this is when we can really get that time together as well, you know? So take advantage. Yeah. So you said that was three. I'm sorry to interrupt you. What's four? Four? Four would be, how did you know this, man? You beat me to it, which is like intentionally integrating something that is a unifier. Oh, okay. Got it. So a gratitude practice, for example, is one of the things that we do. We've been doing for years. We'll share three things that we're grateful for from that day.

1:24:08Shawn Stevenson:Right. And I like yours as well. We did, back in the day, we did something along the lines of, you know, what did I fail at today you know we did that one for a while you know and what these things do it humanizes us as parents right which is again i had this stoic and i you know i my boys still kind of feel that way about me but it's they're they're more they feel closer to me right and they also the thing that i've noticed and i've never shared this before but when i'm not at my best they're right there to lift me up. Absolutely. They pick it up. Like because of me, and it's because I'm not acting like dad has got it all together, which I might look that way.

1:24:50Shawn Stevenson:My wife has said that to me many times. She's like, but you look so good. I'm like, I'm not good. I'm not good. And it can be difficult, especially for men, but just vocalizing and sharing. And that practice has humanized me. And so my kids can relate to me. They can have a idea of like what might be to come and lessons. but also they get to express themselves. What happens is it's an opener. It's something to get them talking, to get out of there, like, especially my son is 13, you know, his little teenager bag, you know, and just to get him talking and to, again, to feel heard, to be seen. And it opens up things.

1:25:31Shawn Stevenson:It's a unifier. The dinner table itself is a unifier. It is a unifier, right. So those are four tips. That's so powerful, man. I mean, you know, to bring that intentionality and that much structure around dinner time, specifically for families, is huge. And I think it's a game changer that most people have forgotten. Maybe not forgotten, but they've de-emphasized it in their life. And so if that's the one message you take away from today's podcast is focus on that dinner again. And, you know, I read your book. You know, what I love about this book is that it's not just a cookbook. Like you learn about nutrition, about the science of family, about structure around dinner, all these things.

1:26:11You learn so much. And I can tell you put your heart and soul into this book for sure. You really have. And it's a beautiful book. And so glad you brought it to me when I was on your podcast. You gave it to me. You know, I read it and you made the recipe.

1:26:24Shawn Stevenson:Who knew that it would turn into a magical moment like that? Like that was like, it really blew me away. Right. You know, I was not expecting that to happen, you know, with you making the dessert from the book. like it just it made me it just it's not that my heart was like small like the Grinch's but it just made me my heart get bigger sure sure absolutely like one of the things you know we did at that dinner that we had shared together and also I do with all my friends and I've done this for years is even if you're out with some friends bring some intentionality to it and just you know we did it around the table where we asked one question everyone gets to speak and you listen to that one person yeah it's called a Jeffersonian dinner because you know Thomas Jefferson he couldn't hear out of one year.

1:27:05So he would make everyone speak one at a time and having, he asked everyone a question and you go around the table and you answer that one question. It really brings what used to be just a random friend dinner into an intentional moment of connection, um, by just doing something simple like that. And if you, if you're listening to this podcast, you haven't tried this with your friends or your family, give it a shot. I mean, it really is a powerful thing that bringing the community and connection back to our lives is insanely powerful and beneficial. Yeah, absolutely.

1:27:39Shawn Stevenson:Absolutely. And I appreciate that, man. Just that experience, I'll never forget. I'll never forget that. And, you know, like you said, this was, you know, a lot of people say this, you know, being a labor of love, but this was my family, you know. For sure. I really opened myself up and experimented with these things for many years and working with families, working with individuals, over the years. And, you know, for me, this is the best resource that you can have. And I see it now, of course, with social media, you see it in people's kitchens all over the world, which is really, it's amazing.

1:28:11Shawn Stevenson:Like that's, I couldn't have dreamed of anything better, but I'm a big foodie. So obviously we leaned into the culture that we, you know, grew up here in the United States with. I love breakfast food. McDonald's breakfast was my thing. So I created like an upgraded breakfast sandwich with all real food ingredients, the sweet potato protein pancakes and, you know, the, the salmon burgers, everybody's invited by the way, it's inclusive. Yeah. Whatever diet framework you prescribe to, whether it's, you know, from vegan to carnivore. Um, but we're just using, because, you know, like the veggie burgers out there, they're terrible.

1:28:46Shawn Stevenson:Okay. Ultra process. So it's like, there's a veggie, you know, um, and then there's the classic grass fed beef burger or pescaterian, the salmon burger might be my favorite. Now let me take that back. it depends on the day yeah you know but right now i'm loving the salmon burger but also as you mentioned there are over 250 peer-reviewed studies embedded in the content exactly of the book told like in this great story form like one chapter i put a bunch of like superhero easter eggs oh yeah i love that you know which was really fun because you know it's like a big part of my family culture as well so you know you could just go through it said it's it's fun it's fun to read but it's also giving you all the tools that you need to revolutionize your kitchen culture because that's a part of it too.

1:29:29Shawn Stevenson:The, you know, you have to create a vibe for yourself if you're going to be in the kitchen, you know, giving yourself permission for that. But also we didn't get a chance to talk about that a lot about actually cooking the food and how much connection that brings back into your life to the food that you're putting in your body. And then once you start doing that, you don't put chemicals in your body anymore. You understand how much the choices affect your biology when you're making the food, right? So sorry to interrupt you, but I thought that was an important point that you made in the book too.

1:29:59Shawn Stevenson:Yeah, thank you. And again, leaning into the fact that we do have this culture today, we're an emoji culture. And so I leaned into that. And so as I'm talking about these, it's just about 40 specific foods that have a ton of data on the efficacy for human health, creating different benefits, whether it's cognitive benefits, gut health, or you know heart health whatever the case might be supportive of metabolic health cold fat burning and there aren't really fat burning foods per se no but like oh wow this study had it showed that you know this particular food does this with your metabolism so I use emojis to denote those right so you don't even have to read the studies just know like okay this one has the brain emoji the muscle emoji heart emoji and then you'll see those emojis in the recipe section as well.

1:30:47Shawn Stevenson:So you can eat for a purpose. If you're really focused on improving your sleep, right, you can eat some of these recipes that are giving your body these, I call them good sleep nutrients that have the most data affirming how these are involved. And this is one of those things, again, you could have the most fancy pants mattress, do all the room hacking, biohacking. If you're deficient in the nutrients that create your sleep related hormones and neurotransmitters, you're still going to struggle. So these are like basic things that can be addressed in one cookbook. So yeah, it was a lot to put together.

1:31:22Shawn Stevenson:And like you said, I'm so grateful. It came out so beautiful. And my family's involved in it. Yeah, there's some pictures of your family in the book all throughout, and it's fantastic, yeah. Well, man, thank you so much for joining me today, Sean. I mean, this has been such a great conversation. And I love how deep we get, man. I love it. Me too, me too. This is fun. It's so much fun. Thank you so much for tuning into the show today. I hope that you got a lot of value out of this. Again, this was truly a powerful conversation. We covered a lot of ground, but it's so great to be able to talk to brilliant minds and just great people like Dr.

1:31:59Shawn Stevenson:Darshan Shah. And if you want more from the Extend podcast, definitely pop over and check out his new show. And also, listen, listen, Linda, we've got some of the most incredible shows in store for you some amazing master classes i've been working on and also some of the most mind-blowing phenomenal guests all right so much in store so make sure to be ready make sure to stay tuned much much more to come so take care have an amazing day and i'll talk with you soon and for more after the show make sure to head over to themodelhealthshow.com. That's where you can find all of the show notes. You can find transcriptions, videos for each episode.

1:32:45Shawn Stevenson:And if you got a comment, you can leave me a comment there as well. And please make sure to head over to iTunes and leave us a rating to let everybody know that the show is awesome. And I appreciate that so much. And take care. I promise to keep giving you more powerful, empowering, great content to help you transform your life. Thanks for tuning in.

1:33:10Thank you.