The Menopause Gut: Why Metabolism Changes & How to Reclaim Your Body - With Cynthia Thurlow

23:52If you sleep four hours or more, it's for every one hour, it's a 9 % increase in obesity. That's not even looking at all the other factors that come with that. So I think it is our modern day lifestyles that are driving all of these issues. We are eating foods. They're frankenfoods. A lot of us are eating foods that are food-like substances. And I'm not being, I'm a realist. So I get it. Whether it's protein powder, protein bars, whatever it is that people are eating, we're just eating and not sleeping. And we're constantly stimulated. We live in this hedonistic environment where you can stream anything you want any time of the day or night.

24:27Uber Eats will deliver you food any time of the day or night. Then you add on top of it, the complex role of trauma that I think for so many people, maybe we're just hitting the tip of the iceberg talking about what happened in someone's childhood and how that's influenced their immune system and their cortisol response and their autonomic nervous system. So I think it's multiple things, Sean, not just one thing. But I do think when you look at cultures that are maybe not as exposed to our hedonistic type lifestyle, I think they're just preserved. I think it's a much more and when I use the term simple, I just say it's a much less complicated situation.

25:05You know, people are eating predominantly nutrient dense whole foods, because that's all that's available. And they are not tethered to technology 24-7. And maybe their stress might be something that's brief and sporadic, which is what stress is designed to be, not unrelenting stress throughout the day 24-7. I think it has primed our bodies to be that much more susceptible. And the more that I understand about the immune system and the role of cortisol and the catabolic effects, the more I think we are just primed to just be much more likely to develop not just one autoimmune condition, but multiple.

25:41And for people listening, I tell everyone, once you have had one, you're more likely to have others. It's very much a domino effect.

25:49Shawn Stevenson:Profound, profound. So, I mean, to put it in a nutshell, we are living in very different conditions. The world is very, very different than what it was just a couple of decades ago. And things are not slowing down anytime soon. And so getting this education and finding ways to not try to hide from the world, but how do you adapt? How do you increase your resilience and survivability in these conditions? And if you're unaware, you're just gonna be at the mercy of these changing conditions. And that's the thing. And this is why this education is so important. Most people are unaware. Yeah. You know, but with this, ignorance is not bliss.

26:30No, well, and I think about, you know, I had my 30th high school reunion a few years ago and I remember I went with my best friend and we had a great time. And I was looking around the room and, you know, being a clinician, like I'm just always kind of observing. I'm an empath and I just kind of take everything in. And I was like, you know, the people that are doing the best right now are the people that are not acting like they're 18 years old. And I'll just simply put it that way. If you are still thinking that you can get by as a middle-aged person or nearly middle-aged person with what you did at 18, it's not going to serve you well.

27:04And so to your point, I think that through knowledge builds awareness around things that we can be doing to ensure that we don't have a marginal decade. I don't want a marginal decade. I want to have, you know, a great decade, one after the other. And I think for so many people, when I hear a woman say to me, this is just the way things are. I'm X age, 54, 45, 62, 70. This is just the way things are. And the degree of acceptance. And I would say, you know, fighting against that acceptance of things that you do have some control over. I'm not talking about things we don't have control over. The things we do have control over, giving people options to be able to make different choices, to improve their quality of life is really, that's why I'm here.

27:48Yeah.

27:48Shawn Stevenson:And we have so much power within that, you know. And so thank you for saying that as well. And I know that some people spit their coffee out when they heard 30 year anniversary of your high school graduation. That was a while ago. So, but, you know, I was just thinking recently because, you know, when I think about my high school class, you know, there's certain songs. I even have my senior book, you know, that I wrote, like, what are the hot songs right now? And we've got things that are tied to that time. And I think about the kids now, you know, like, what is their songs going to be? I know.

28:23Shawn Stevenson:You know, Sexy Red is, I don't know if that's going to stand the test of time, you know. Probably not. No disrespect. No disrespect. Sexy Red is from my hometown, St. Louis. I know a lot of girls like her. But, you know, anyways, with this being said, it's incredible to have access today. Right. We have access to education. And so part of this is just making sure that people know that the bridge is already there. Right. And so this is why I'm so grateful to do this work. But we also need to focus on strategies, which we're going to dig more into that. But there's such an important part of this conversation that you are bringing forth that, again, largely no one is talking about this.

29:08Shawn Stevenson:And this is the influence of trauma in relationship to menopause. So I want to talk a little bit more about that. And just to dig in deep, can you help us to make sense of why this is an influential factor? Yeah, I think that's such an important conversation because how many of us experienced significant adverse childhood events? I certainly did. And so there was a study done between Kaiser and the CDC looking at the impact of specific traumas that younger people can experience. And you can go online. It's not gatekept. You can go online and do the quiz. And so I transparently have an ACE score of nine, which is quite high.

29:47what that does is it it completely undermines or rewires your autonomic nervous system so what i grew up in was physical and i share this just transparently to give people some perspective physical and emotional abuse alcoholism narcissism all those things were part of my childhood but i adapted and the way that i adapted was i was the good kid i was the kid who was perfect i was the kid who got good grades because then i was left alone and so my my nervous system was rewired to suppress a lot and also at a heightened stress response. So even though I always say I look like the duck paddling across the lake, like I look calm on the outside, but like inside my body is fighting, fighting, fighting.

30:31And the same is so similar for so many other women. But what that chronic cortisol does to your body, that elevation is, we know can age your ovaries faster. We know it contributes to autoimmune conditions. We know it can lead to distorted relationships with food. It can lead to poor metabolic health. That doesn't mean that happens to everyone. But when I was diving into the research, the understanding that trauma, whether it's sexual abuse, physical abuse, emotional abuse, all these things rewire our nervous system. And so it can definitely make us more likely to or have the potential for an earlier menopause.

31:07In fact, there was a study that was done looking at a woman who was sexually abused. if she goes on to have children who are sexually abused she will go into menopause eight years earlier that is substantial and significant what's interesting to me is i've been having conversations with physician friends of mine who are ob-gyns so a physician that is up all day and all night delivering babies obviously a kind of a stressful environment to be in how many of them went into early menopause and i think that there there's a lot that we don't yet fully understand but stress can age our ovaries faster.

31:40And so I find it interesting. And certainly this ovarian senescent, so that's a fancy way of saying ovarian aging, can definitely be impacted by the stress that we experience as young people. And by young people, I mean children under the age of 18. Obviously, if you experience stress and trauma when you're older, that can also influence it, but quite significant when young people are exposed to quite a bit of trauma. Wow.

32:06Shawn Stevenson:Yep. Yep. This boils down to, you know, just with that being highlighted, when you said the nervous system wiring and, you know, so we're talking about the brain, we're talking about the peripheral nervous system, everything downstream. Why would that influence menopause? When you just said that piece, it immediately clicked in for me. Yeah. That we, we, again, we separate that, right? What does that have to do with, you know, hormones? And they're integrated, right? The hypothalamus, these are integrated with our nervous system and our endocrine system. And so your perception of stress, when you talk about wiring, we're talking about our perception of stress, how our bodies process, metabolize, interact with stress in our environment, perceived stress.

32:52Shawn Stevenson:Yes. And so that is instantly going to change what your hormones are doing 24, 7, 365. Yeah. And so thank you so much for highlighting this because this could be another place for women to investigate. Right. When they're wanting to like, I want to make this process again. I don't want to have, I don't want to settle. Yeah. Right. I want this process of perimenopause and menopause to number one, to not have to suffer unnecessarily. but also to come out the other side feeling healthier and stronger. And, you know, even during the process, dare I say, which again, there's so many examples emerging of this being possible, but the education needs to be there.

33:36Yeah. And I think for a lot of people, if they're not doing that internal work, if they've experienced, you know, they've had post-traumatic stress disorder, they had significant childhood trauma, young adult trauma. When you go into perimenopause, if you are not dealing with your stuff, it will bring itself up. I think 70 % of divorces are initiated by women. And I'm not suggesting that you go into perimenopause and you instantly want to get divorced. I'm just saying that if you don't deal with your stuff, and each one of us have stuff, it will make it more challenging as you are navigating this transition, because it isn't just hormones that are fluctuating.

34:08It's neurotransmitters that are fluctuating. So the way that we perceive the world shifts enormously.

34:16Shawn Stevenson:Well, you've said this a couple of times. We've talked about the ovaries. we've touched on this in relationship to aging. Can you share what is the most mitochondrial dense organ in a woman's body? The ovaries. And which is, it's not surprising. I mean, they're there to help create life. And I think if you were to ask most people, including healthcare providers, they probably would say the heart, the brain. Yes, those are mitochondrial dense organs. Our ovaries are the most mitochondrial dense organ in our bodies. So this is why earlier when you were saying, you know, we want to sustain fertility, you know, as long as possible and that healthy fertility.

34:57Shawn Stevenson:And I know that someone like, I don't want to, I don't want to, you know, have the possibility of having a kid. It's not about that. It is about that, but it's not all about that. It's an expression of longevity as well. Well, and it's like, I didn't know 10 years ago what I know now. So obviously, I went into menopause earlier than expected. I think a lot of my 2019 hospitalization had a lot to do with that. But I'm the first person to say, what do I talk to younger women about? Like all this emerging research that's coming out, it's like, this is really exciting that maybe women instead of going into menopause, average age of 51, maybe they go in a little later.

35:35I mean, the longer we go without hormones is significant. You know, 100 years ago, people didn't live as long. Now they do. And I think in many instances, having a conversation about how long you go without hormones is critically important. I want everyone listening to be able to have a fully informed conversation with their licensed medical provider so they can decide for themselves what makes the most sense. because maybe HRT isn't the right decision for everyone, but every woman deserves to have a fully informed conversation. And I think, you know, nothing is more sad to me as a clinician. If a woman says to me, yeah, I had a total abdominal hysterectomy.

36:15They took out my ovaries, my uterus appropriately. And then they're 38 and they go from 38 to 50 with no hormones. Understanding what is happening physiologically. It's one of these things where I'm like, you deserve to have that conversation. that person that that removed your ovaries in your uterus should have said to you let's get you started because between 38 and 50 you should have been on higher levels of hormones because that's a young age to go into menopause and i think there are some instances where there are people who are still fearful to have those conversations with their patients and i'm like there's plenty of other people that aren't so make sure you're working with the right person amazing amazing

36:56Shawn Stevenson:Let's dive in and talk a little bit more about some of the things to consider, to test out, and to utilize in this context. One of those, obviously diet plays a big part, and you've mentioned that a little bit, but my big question is, you know, a lot of women experience more struggles with weight management during perimenopause and menopause in particular. and is it just a matter like they just need to you just need to get on a calorie reduced diet oh the bane of my existence some of the and i'm gonna say this lovingly not all but there are a few males out there personal trainers typically that'll say what are you talking about it's just calories in calories out and i'm like if it were that simple none of these women would be suffering like they are it really is so much more than caloric intake and you know whether we are having a conversation about sleep disruption, which we know can be a disaster for metabolic health.

37:54Not managing your stress, we become so much less stress resilient. And we've already talked about how cortisol is an important hormone. But if it's chronically elevated, it's catabolic, you're breaking down what muscle you do have, not to mention the fact you're driving your immune system to be dysregulated, and you're leading to more leaky gut. You know, the kind of ultra processed foods that the bulk of us are still eating, we know you're going to consume an additional 500 ,000 calories a day, that's significant over time, because your brain is tricked into believing you haven't eaten as much food as you have.

38:24And then, you know, we can talk about meal frequency, we could certainly talk about the lack of muscle mass, you know, sarcopenia is a real issue. And it's not just lip service. It's the understanding that, yeah, muscles make us look healthy and strong and all of that. But it is absolutely critically important for metabolic to maintain muscle mass. It's a glucose reservoir. And then you add in all the other things, the gut health piece, you know, what's going on with your gut? Are you dealing with your stuff? Are you someone that has, you know, connections to others? I think we don't, we underestimate the importance of, you know, connection to other people.

39:01Something as simple as having friends, having loved ones, people that check in on us, you know, loneliness is equivalent to cigarette smoking. And that's another thing that we forget about a lot of times our elderly, uh, friends and family members that, I mean, they're incredibly sad. They feel, you know, they're, they have no connection to other people and how that'll also influence all of us. So we have to feel a sense of connection. We have to feel a sense of purpose. And then on top of that, we have all these other levers that we have to be considering when it comes to shifts in body composition.

39:31And it is so much more than calories. It's something that I find endlessly fascinating that there are so many people that still want to die on that sword. And I'm like, hang on a second. I was like, let's think about the hormonal changes that a woman goes through. So as estrogen is depleted and follicular stimulating hormone, talking about the hypothalamus, a very important hormone that tells the ovaries to release an egg as our FSH is going up and our estradiol is going down, protein becomes so much more important for satiety. It's important because if we're not eating enough protein, we're standing in our pantry at nine o 'clock at night wondering why we're hungry.

40:06We're hungry. It's because of this appetite regulation, leptin and ghrelin, if they get dysregulated, so all these hormones become very, very important for women as they're getting older. You know, I think that GLP-1s absolutely have a place. I feel like they become part of the conversation every time I talk about body composition. And obviously there are clear cut indications for insurance coverage versus things that can be compounded. I see a lot of benefits for women being able to help with body composition there, but the foundational elements have to be addressed first. I think in many instances, it's having that conversation that yes, a GLP-1 may be helpful for shifting body composition, but if you don't do all the other pieces, you're not gonna be successful long-term.

40:49And that's an important kind of distinction to make, not to mention the fact replacing the hormones you lost can be very helpful for shifting body composition. And that's estrogen and progesterone for most people and plus or minus some testosterone depending on the woman. Not every woman in menopause needs to have her testosterone replaced. Got it.

41:09Shawn Stevenson:Got it. Amazing. As you know, mental health challenges have skyrocketed in recent decades. And without addressing the root cause of this emerging change in our society, we're going to continue to see poor outcomes. We need to address, of course, nutrient deficiencies, our sedentary behavior, our lack of social connection, our poor sleep quality. All of these things are proven to contribute to these epidemics of poor mental health. Of course, medication can be helpful in some context, but most people are not educated about the science-backed natural supplement that has been shown to be as effective as many medications.

41:49Shawn Stevenson:So making sure that we're being mindful of our lifestyle factors, but also utilizing science-backed supplementation. An analysis published in the Journal of Effective Disorders found that the renowned spice called saffron was just as effective as conventional antidepressant drugs like Prozac, Tofrenil, and Celexa. Additionally, and of the utmost importance, people who are utilizing saffron had none of the side effects that were seen rampant in those who are utilizing those conventional treatments. So something that is far safer, but equally, if not even better in effectiveness. That's what we get when utilizing something like saffron.

42:35Shawn Stevenson:And my favorite resource for saffron in therapeutic amounts, and actually in a tasty version, are the happy drops from Organifi. Go to Organifi.com forward slash model right now, and you're going to get 20 % off their phenomenal happy drops. All right. As a matter of fact, you're going to get 20 % off store wide. Now, these happy drops are exceptional. it's not necessarily just for a mood boost but something that can be utilized as a tonic something that is good for many other aspects of your health because saffron doesn't just have one benefit of supporting mental health it's also been found to be supportive of metabolic health as well and here are a couple of real world testimonials when it comes to these happy drops nicholas said happily surprised i was extremely skeptical about this product despite all the good reviews however using it daily for the past two weeks, I can definitely say that they work.

43:35Shawn Stevenson:I definitely have an easier time staying positive and rolling with the punches of daily life with the help of Happy Drops. And Hillary said, Happy Drops will make you happy that you ordered. I found out about these little drops of bliss from Instagram. I was skeptical as every product makes claims that aren't always backed. Upon trying these Happy Drops, I've noticed a mood improvement, energy that lasts throughout the day, aka no afternoon slump anymore, and improved sleep at night. I'm thrilled. These are just some of the incredible testimonials. You can check them out over on the website. Again, go to Organifi.com forward slash model for 20 % off right now.

44:14Shawn Stevenson:That's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I dot com forward slash model for 20 % off. And now back to the show. I want to say this as clearly as possible. The issues are not the calories. They've never been the calories. We have estimations of what amount of calories are in a food, but most people don't realize this. It's not based off of somebody's actually testing that food to see and using a bomb calorimeter. And, you know, it's the Atwater system. It's just estimation. And it's always been estimation. It's not about the calories though, regardless if we have an estimation of the calories in that food, there are no two people on planet earth whose bodies process calories the same way, whose bodies metabolize, interact with even identical twins.

45:01Shawn Stevenson:And this was part of one of my books. I shared multiple studies on identical twins. If their microbiome makeup was different, one twin was more inclined to gain weight than the other twin. Firmicutes, bacteroidetes, you know, just these certain two very general classifications of bacteria. You know, so our gut microbiome, our hormone function, our age, our genetics, you know, the list goes, our muscle mass, our nervous system, not to mention all of these kind of epic caloric controllers with the food itself. You mentioned protein. Like I can go on and on and on. And some people's bodies process protein, you know, not some people, everybody's bodies process protein slightly differently.

45:47Shawn Stevenson:And there can be people at extremes, right? And so it's not this cookie cutter thing. And it's more so, and what you're doing is providing areas of investigation instead of saying, just do this thing and all your problems are going to be solved. Wouldn't that be so much easier? I mean, I think on a lot of levels, you know, women in middle age are marketing, you know, they're a marketing draw. You know, we're a vulnerable population. For a lot of women, And they're like, I don't know what's going on with my bodies. Everything I used to do no longer works. I know for so many women, especially my super type A, you know, patients and clients that, you know, they have no problems with motivation to go to the gym.

46:27They have no problems with eating pristinely. They have no problems with plus or minus intermittent fasting. And when their bodies betray them, I'm using their words, they become incredibly frustrated. They struggle with being patient because I will say to them, this is not a, we're going to figure it out in two weeks problem. Am I going to get you feeling better within a month? Absolutely. But if your sole focus right now is losing weight, and that's usually what it is. I'm like, there's so many other things we have to work on to help us understand why your body is struggling with relinquishing control over body composition, fat mass, muscle mass, etc.

47:08And so I find it endlessly frustrating. We put so much pressure on women. You know, I grew up in the thin is in stage. Thankfully, now we're starting to see strong is what we're focused on as strong bodies for men and women, which I think is a blessing. But that mentality that we've grown up with doesn't go away. So my generation, really still it's a it's a complete mind screw. Because on the one hand, they're like, intellectually, I hear you. On the other hand, they're like, yeah, but the devil's on my shoulder and it's telling me what I need to do is more fasting, more exercise, more caloric restriction, eat less carbs, insert whatever, whatever, you know, whatever macronutrient is having a moment, good or bad or indifferent.

47:52And they really struggle with that. So I share this because over the past 10 years, I've exclusively worked with women. And it is so apparent to me that the way that things are marketed to women, it's really designed to make that, it's kind of fueled this degree of insecurity. Like my body's betrayed me, what's going on? This pill, potion or powder is gonna take it away. That's not gonna do it.

48:15Shawn Stevenson:Well, what is the angel on the shoulder saying? What are some of the principles that women can investigate when it comes to their diet? Like what are some of the nutrition principles? Again, not this is the thing that's going to save you, but what are some kind of consistencies that most women would get a lot of value from if we're talking about the menopause gut? Yeah, I would say number one, slow and steady. So this is not, you know, you're going to snap your fingers and you're instantly going to feel better. So we talk about protein centric diets because protein is so important, not only for satiety, but maintaining muscle mass.

48:49And we need more protein with age, not less. So I jokingly say my very athletic teen, well, one teen and one young adult children, they can, you know, have 10 grams of protein and probably trigger muscle protein synthesis, whereas I need 40 or 50, as do most of my patients. So being really conscientious about getting at least, you know, 30 to 50 grams of protein in each meal. If you are intermittent fasting, please, please, please do not compress your feeding window to such a short, narrow window of four hours and think you're going to eat 100 grams of protein in four hours, it's not going to happen.

49:22I don't know any woman that can do that. And if you can, bravo, but you're part of the minority. I would say the other thing is carbohydrates are not the enemy. I think for far too long, we've told men and women, carbohydrates are bad. And so I have an entire group of women who are paranoid or fearful to eat carbohydrates. It's the context that's important. It's helping them understand fruits and vegetables are not the problem. You are not going to get obese eating a an orange, you are not going to get obese eating a piece of watermelon. Like, unfortunately, we've kind of gone the wrong direction.

49:55I'm usually talking about processed carbohydrates, but I really emphasize fiber. I emphasize fiber for a number of reasons, but fiber is critically important because we have less, one of the many things that happens in the perimenopause to menopause transition, we have less short-chain fatty acids. And why is this important? Because short-chain fatty acids are a fuel substrate and a signaling molecule that is critically important for insulin sensitivity. It's important for reducing inflammation that can be involved in GL endogenous GLP one production, along with things like acromantia. And so helping them understand that fiber is consumed, it's fermented in the colon, and then these beautiful short chain fatty acids go out and do their their work.

50:37But we have less of them in this transitional period. I would say the other thing that is a consistent theme is hydration, something so simple, like hydration, we start to lose our perception of thirst. By the time we get thirsty, and this is that again, it's that estrogen play, like as we're losing estrogen, we lose those kind of thirst responses. It's not necessarily the baroreceptors in the neck, it has nothing to do with that. When I looked at the research, I was like, this makes so much sense. Like my little old ladies that didn't want to pee and would tell me I'm on a diuretic, I don't want to drink more water because I want to go to the bathroom.

51:12I'm not talking about that. It is general hydration day to day, week to week that makes an enormous difference in your cognition, your sleep quality, your digestion. So hydration becomes a huge part of the conversation. I would say those are the consistent pieces. Now, the question always becomes, what about healthy fats? So bio-individual. Some people do well with plant-based fats. Some people do well with saturated fats. I am more the former than the latter. So I can do more carbohydrates, more protein, and lower fat. It doesn't mean I eat no fat. I just eat less of it and certainly more plant-based varieties.

51:47So there's a degree of experimentation, but the nutritional piece is so important to get your head wrapped around. And it's not designed to punish you. I cannot eat the way I did at 18. Heck, I can't eat the way I did at 35. But I found a happy place where I can exist eating plenty of protein. And for a lot of my patients, when they're eating enough protein, they just feel so much better. They're like, I'm not standing in the pantry at nine o 'clock at night wondering why I'm staring at chips and thinking about the ice cream in the freezer, all of a sudden I'm like, I can go to bed and I feel satiated and I feel good about my choices I've made today.

52:22Love it.

52:23Shawn Stevenson:You've mentioned intermittent fasting a couple of times, and this is obviously a very popular framework for dieting today, but this is grounded in very, very deep historical you know, human evolution. We didn't have constant, we're not eating all the time, right? Today is the access thing. And so having to be strategic is just something that we're doing in this new environment. Now, with that being said, can intermittent fasting be something that's a helpful tool during perimenopause and menopause? Yes, but, so here's my caveat. Obviously this is something I'm known for. So I always have to provide the caveat.

53:05can you get enough protein into your feeding window? Because what I find is easily 80 % of the women I work with can't. And so I always say, this is where I coined the term digestive rest, which gives people a 12 hour, you know, time table during their day to get three boluses of protein in. That is sustainable, you're still getting benefits from a digestive rest, improved blood sugar regulation, you're not eating constantly. But for a lot of women that can't get that protein into an eight hour, six hour, four hour feeding window takes the pressure off of them. Now, one thing that I do do, and I ask women to consider is track your macros for a week, just track them, no judgment, just track them.

53:47Pretty consistently, there's not enough protein intake with those very narrow feeding windows. Now, do I suggest intermittent fasting and people are traveling and they're in an airport and there's no decent things that you can eat? I But if the goal is to maintain and build muscle, you have to be careful with fasting. It doesn't mean that I don't believe in it as a strategy. And if someone's incredibly, if someone's not particularly metabolically healthy, we know this is someone that could benefit from losing, you know, 40, 50 pounds. I think that intermittent fasting can be of benefit, but it always has to be in the context.

54:21Can you get your protein needs met? And that's always the conversation that I think a lot of us are not having with ourselves.

54:29Shawn Stevenson:Phenomenal. you know, the data that we do have is showing even 10 to 12 hours after, you know, finishing a meal and just having that time of not consuming food, we see some metabolic benefits take place, you know, insulin, obviously sensitivity goes up. Like there's, it doesn't have to be so stringent to get some of those benefits, but more so we don't want to miss out on, especially, I'm so glad you mentioned this, it's one of the not only, but best protein related studies that we have in older age. We know that the ability to process and utilize protein goes down as people get older. And so this is even more important because we see the degradation increase when they're not getting inadequate protein.

55:20Shawn Stevenson:And so this is such an important thing to be focused on and to be strategic about for your life as an individual and finding out what works best for you. And so, you know, with that being said, we covered some of the foundational pieces when it comes to diet nutrition. Are there any other things that you want to point people to and that they're going to learn about in the menopause gut? I do talk about alcohol. That's kind of like poking a bear because it is a very personal decision. But if you look at the research, and I'm not talking about a glass of wine once a month, I'm talking about the heavy drinking that is still part of the mommy drinking culture.

56:00And I know this because, you know, if I'm at events or I'm talking to people and I'm just listening, I'm sometimes surprised that even women in their 40s, 50s, and 60s still drink fairly heavily. We know that it is problematic for a number of reasons, puts you at greater risk for certain types of cancers, you know, heavier drinking or consistent drinking can lead to leaky gut, can increase your, your estradiol levels within your body to points or estrogen levels that elevates them for several hours afterwards, you know, impacts your sleep quality. You know, I would say a lot of people drink because they're trying to manage their stress levels.

56:36It actually makes it worse. So kind of looking at your relationship with alcohol and saying, you know, is it worth it? Because I think that the, you know, certainly the research that's out there is certainly starting to head in the direction that alcohol really has no health benefits. And so being selective, if you choose to drink, just being selective about using it sparingly and not habitually.

57:01Shawn Stevenson:You said poke the bear. I thought about cocaine bear. I think they might even have a part two of that, by the way, but an alcohol bear movie would, would, would, would hate different. It's triggering. It's, it's interesting to me how triggering it is to talk about alcohol. And I just say, listen, I'm, I'm just presenting objectively what I read and see. And certainly, um, you know, I have my own personal preferences because of the way that I grew up, but that's not what's clouding my perspective. It's like really looking at the research. And if we're talking about a healthy gut and knowing that were a greater risk for leaky gut at this stage of life, it's like, that would be one of the things I would use sparingly or not at all.

57:41Yeah.

57:41Shawn Stevenson:There actually was already a alcohol bear, which was Yogi the bear. If you think about it, he was always chasing the picnic baskets. He called his little friend Boo Boo. You know, he was tipsy all the time. So if you could, Can you share just what people can expect when they pick up a copy of the menopause gut and also, of course, where they can pick up a copy? Yeah, thank you so much. So the menopause gut is really giving us a expose into the microbiome, the gut microbiome predominantly, but really looking at the influence on our immune system, on bone health, brain health, looking at hormones, hormone replacement therapy.

58:22I unpack the WHI Women's Health Initiative and explain how that's influenced prescribing privileges. We talk about supplements. We talk about sleep, nutrition, exercise, and lots and lots of resources. I don't touch on peptides in the book much because, you know, some of them are not FDA approved and that can be kind of a little bit of a landmine. And so menopause gut is available anywhere books are. If you have a local bookstore, please go place a presale order and check it out because we We want to be supportive of our local bookstores, our brick and mortar bookstores, but anywhere you find books, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Target, et cetera.

59:01Shawn Stevenson:Awesome. Thank you so much. And, you know, I know how much you care truly and how much you put into, you know, the work that you share and creating a book like this is very special and it's timely and you are addressing so many of the things that, you know, again, they're just kind of hiding in plain sight. And so I'm so grateful to be able to support this project. And I'm so grateful for you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm grateful for you as well. Thank you so much. Amazing. The one and only Cynthia Berlow. Thank you so much for tuning into this episode today. I hope that you got a lot of value out of this.

59:37Shawn Stevenson:If you did, please share this with somebody that you care about. You could take a screenshot of this episode and share it on social media. Tag me. I'm at Sean Model and tag Cynthia as well. Let her know what you thought about this episode. And of course, you can send this directly from the podcast app that you're listening on. And if you wanna hang out in the studio with us anytime, pop over to the Model Health Show YouTube channel and you'll be able to hang out in the studio with us, see visuals of the episodes, see me and the guests hang out in the room, catch that wave, catch that vibe with us.

1:00:12Shawn Stevenson:And of course, you'll be able to see some of the references and studies that we talk about to get that visual added effect as well. And also, if you are tuning in on Spotify, you already know we have Spotify video as well. So you can enjoy the video episode on Spotify too. And all of those platforms, you can leave comments, share your voice. Please do share your heart. It really does mean a lot. And if you're listening on Apple or other platforms, of course, you could share your voice by rating the show, leaving a review, every single message truly does mean a lot. So I really do appreciate that.

1:00:51Shawn Stevenson:And we've got some incredible, incredible world leading experts and powerful masterclasses coming your way very, very soon. So make sure to stay tuned, take care, have an amazing day, and I'll talk with you soon.