Why Human Intelligence is Rapidly Decreasing - With Dr. Jared Cooney Horvath

27:20Do you see how quickly I got through that, man, I'm, I'm nailing it. Meanwhile, when you do something that's incredibly difficult, you tend to underestimate how well you're doing on that. It's much harder. So you think I suck. I don't know what's going on when in truth, if I test, you know, you're actually growing. Congratulations. So if you would take this back to learning, one of my favorite experiments was a guy had one group read the same book passage four times. Now rereading is easy. It's just, just read it, read it again, read it again. He then said, okay, I'm going to give you a test in a week.

27:50How well do you think you're going to do? And they're like 80 % say given the test a week later, they're at about 40%. Their confidence versus their reality was miles apart. Now, flippity as another group, read the passage once then do a really difficult recall task. So I'm going to ask you questions. You have to tell me what you remember about that. Who was this character? How did it work? Much harder, not fun, not fluent at all. Because these kids are stumbling, he says, how well do you think you guys are going to do on a test? They say maybe 50%. Give them a test a week later, they're sitting around 60%.

28:22They undershot how well they were actually learning. And so that's where we, when we start thinking about personalized learning, about digital tech that can cater to your preferences, to your needs, how do you learn best? One of the dangers is we're now making learning way too easy. We're making it feel way too good for you. So you're becoming overconfident. You're moving too fast. And if we ever take you away from that program and test you over here, you're not actually getting much of anything, but you think you are. And so that's when we try and say, you know what, you're not learning much on tech, but it felt better than this really hard activity we were doing in class.

28:59It's like the gym, man. If you go to the gym and you're feeling good, you're not working out. If you come out of a gym and you're just like, that was great you didn't if you're in the gym and you're huffing a bit and you're sweating and you get those moments of oh i don't think i can do an eighth set all right we're gonna do it anyway that's where the effort the effort leads to the outcome and unfortunately when it comes to learning a lot of the personalized learning is is stripping away effort making it too comfortable and easy for

29:25Shawn Stevenson:them to learn so the personalized learning is like the little pink dumbbells the little you're doing something and hey if anyone asks i was at the gym for an hour today but did you actually push yourself? Probably not. Can you talk about the mode effect? Yeah. Oh goodness. So the mode effect, anytime a human being is asked to perform a task online, they will perform that worse than when they do it analog. And so we call it the mode effect. The mode in this case is the medium you're using. The mode is tech, tech harms learning. Now this is a big, if you're a parent, you know what's what's coming most standardized tests state tests entrance exams sats now they're now digital which means all of our kids should be performing worse on those tests if they would just keep the test analog we'd see have a much better measure of what our kids know and can do so what do tests do why haven't we seen this huge drop we've seen drop but it's more so every year kids are getting worse, worse, worse on these tests.

30:30Turns out they're getting worse than we think they are because in order to cover for the mode effect, what digital tests do is they do what's called re-norming. They're basically going to hide it. So let's say everyone doing an analog test gets a hundred. Everyone doing the exact same test online gets 80, 20 points lower. All we're going to do is give the kids who took the test online 20 bonus points. So that way no one notices that the mode effect just kicked in. Now that's a problem because now we don't genuinely know what people can do or not. We're just kind of futzing data so it looks equivalent.

31:03So I always say, if you have a chance of, if you really want to know what your kids know and can do, analog, analog, analog. It's a much better reflection of our knowledge and our skills, our performance. If you want to get really scary now, so most tests, when they went digital, things got so bad, they started to hide it just through stats fair enough the sats in particular when they decided to go digital things were going to get really bad so bad they couldn't even statistically cover it up so instead of just re-norming the test they decided to rejig the entire test they they decided to just rebuild it so that you wouldn't notice now here's here's what it looks like this is nonsense to me if you ever took a reading comprehension test here's a passage of about 750 words here are 10 to 12 inferential questions about that passage let's do that five times that's reading comprehension that's what it's been for decades on the sats here is the reading comprehension section here is a single sentence of about 75 words here is one fact-based question about that sentence next here's another sentence one fact-based question about it next text.

32:16Reading comprehension is now 54 short snippets of text with one question about each. Now, anyone with a brain realizes that's not reading comprehension, that's skimming. Why would we do that? Because what do kids do on a screen? They skim. So when they move the test to the screen, rather than deciding what do we want our kids to be able to do, they simply changed the entire construct to say, if that's what they do on a screen, that's what we're now going to call reading comprehension that's that i mean that is the example of building the world to fit the tool rather than creating a tool to better fit the world that we want and that just breaks my heart i just heard dj khaled yeah it breaks my heart breaks my heart oh man that is dude you want there's another scary thing that so writing section there was about a 16 year window some of us will have hit it.

33:10I think I was right on the cusp of it, where if you took the SATs, you had to do a writing portion, which is exactly what you think it is. Here's a blank piece of paper, write something like prove you have to make an argument. You have to prove a point, show something. They reinstituted the writing section when they went digital. Here's what it looks like. Here's a sentence with a single typo. Here are four options. What's the typo in that sentence? now wow that's to most people that would sound like editing why would we call editing writing and one of the arguments under the table is with chat gpt kids no longer have to write they just need to edit output are is that what we're really getting to that we're we're going to completely change any assessment of learning to make it look like our kids are still learning and we're going to do it by completely redefining everything into something much lesser than it meant 10 years ago.

34:05That's, that's not the right way to do this.

34:07Shawn Stevenson:But an argument would be, well, we're freeing up capacity, you know, mental capacity. We, we don't need to do that thing. Yeah. So what's the big deal? Oh, that is the, the biggest misconception in learning and in human development is that is because we now have access to information, we now no longer need to learn it. All we need to do is simply look at it and now we can focus on being creative. We can be critical thinkers. We can be communicative. There is no more pernicious thought than that. A sad fact of human cognition is all of your higher order skills, critical thinking, creativity, they're not separate from what you know, they emerge directly from what you know.

34:54Your knowledge base is the ground through which your higher order skills grow. Now notice when I'm saying your knowledge base, I'm not saying what you have access to. Since the invention of the printing press, we have never struggled to access information, but that's never stopped any generation from needing to learn it. You have to embody it. You have to personalize it. Only when that information is in your long-term memory, can your creative processes start using it? And if you, I don't want to get into too much detail because it gets, it can get tricky fast, but all you need to know is a massive chunk of everything we call higher order thinking skills, be it creativity, um, um, collaborative abilities, all these things happen subconsciously.

35:37They happen when you start, stop paying attention. Like one of the, the vast majority of your creative ideation happens when you step away from the problem, when you let your biology get to work. That's why if you go to bed with a problem, you'll wake up with a solution. You come up with your best ideas in the shower. This does work, but it can only do work with what you have already embodied within it. This cannot look up things on the internet. This cannot just ask chat GPT for an answer. So your limit to all of your skills will be what have you put inside of yourself already? And so this is so when people say, don't worry about learning stuff, if you don't learn stuff, there's nothing left for you.

36:16You're you're done. And I think that just the best phrase of this was a lot of researchers were always leery to be the first to pull the trigger. A guy named Paul Kirshner, a cognitive psychologist, he just finally did it a couple of years ago. He said, OK, I'm going to say it. Long term memory is the seat of all human cognition. that's the mic drop that's what we all wanted to say that if it ain't in here there's nothing you can do with it and one of us finally said it so now we can all go yep you're right this is i mean

36:46Shawn Stevenson:what's more important what you just shared what's more important than that our creative capacity is one of the things that we're kind of like really banking on in this age of artificial intelligence and we're taking away the foundation of it. And we need more creativity than we've ever needed. We have the most crazy, complex, just multifaceted chaos around us than we've ever seen in human history. And we need creativity to be able to solve complex problems more than we ever have with this generation right now. And we are robbing them of their ability to truly learn so that they can access that creativity.

37:32Shawn Stevenson:So what's probably gonna happen is a bunch of dumb ideas, if we just put it bluntly. What's probably gonna happen is a lot of confusion, a lot of infighting, a lot of, a lack of ability to collaborate. That was another thing that you mentioned as well. And we need more collaboration than we've ever needed. So again, this is - And we're gonna struggle to do it. Wow, like this is so important. Thank you, man. And I think one of the best stats on that is because some people still struggle to to believe that. In 2018, there's a test called the PISA, which is an international test of reading, math and science.

38:12They give this to hundreds of thousands of ninth grade kids across 60 plus countries every couple of years. 2018, they did it, but they added something in 2018. they also, because the OECD was talking about creativity as the future school, they added standardized measures of creativity, creative ideation, divergent thinking, all this stuff. Now, when they looked at which countries perform best on the knowledge test, reading math science, one country just killed everyone, Singapore. And that didn't shock anyone because Singapore has such a rigorous academic system. Everyone knows you're going to know a lot of stuff.

38:47Then they looked at the creativity data. One country blew everyone out of the water. No one was even close to him. Guess who it was? Singapore. The country that knew the most stuff was the most creative. The second country, Hong Kong, well, city, Hong Kong, Hong Kong, number two on knowledge, number two on creativity. Number three, Japan, number three, Japan. When we correlated creativity scores with knowledge scores, they correlated a 0.92, which is basically perfect, which is the only signal I've ever needed to point to, to say, this is why we teach kids stuff. This is why we continue to learn things.

39:25We're not teaching you history. So, cause we think you're going to become a historian. We're teaching you how to embody and think through knowledge so that you have ammunition when you're ready to start doing things. And if you take away knowledge, you take it all away.

39:39Shawn Stevenson:Are you about that snack life? The paradigm of snacks have changed dramatically in recent years. I grew up, my snacks, animal crackers, little Capri Sun, maybe some random candy from my grandma's purse. You know, she's got the butterscotches and peppermints in there. All right. Of course, got a little, little chips, little cookie. Listen, that's all fine and dandy, but our paradigm of eating candy has really messed us up. And so trying to get healthier, I started having granola bars, right? At granola bars as a kid as well. Super sweetened with a picture of a guy with a wig on, you know, looked like one of the founding fathers on the box.

40:22Shawn Stevenson:You know what I'm talking about. But trying to get healthier, you know, I switch over. I do the granola, healthier, lower sugar, or low-fat paradigm of these cereal bars, but still really missing the point. And then today we had all these innovations in these newly invented chemical complexes to try to trick our bodies with fake fats or fake sugars. And we end up with a ultra process conglomeration of a new kind. What about something real? What about utilizing the paradigm of a food bar, something on the go, but with all real food ingredients? and that's what we have with the Paleo Valley Superfood Bars.

41:07Shawn Stevenson:Not only does it have over eight organic superfoods and collagen-rich, 100 % grass-fed bone broth protein, there are no added sugars or sugar alcohols. They come in a variety of flavors, including red velvet, lemon meringue, apple cinnamon, and what I have right here, dark chocolate chip. These are the only food bars that we keep here at the studio for our team and our guests, and I keep these at home for my family and I travel with these as well. Huge fan of the Paleo Valley Superfood Bars. And right now you get access to 15 % off their amazing superfood bars when you go to paleovalley.com forward slash model.

41:48Shawn Stevenson:That's P-A-L-E-O-V-A-L-L-E-Y.com forward slash model for 15 % off their phenomenal superfood bars plus all of their other incredible snacks and superfood, whole food-based supplements, so much more. Head over there, check them out, paleovalley.com forward slash model. And now back to the show. You also mentioned a part of that equation is processing. You know, time for, to be, you know, with this default mode network kicking on, right? Time to be, quote, bored where we're not doing things. And boredom rarely exists today in this modern world because we're always opening up the phone, you know, opening up an app.

42:31Shawn Stevenson:And what about what it's happening in the process of supposed learning, where you're supposed to be doing certain things in class, but then you're going off task because you're on the same device that has access to all the stuff that you are accustomed to going to. Let's talk about that phenomenon of going off task. Yeah, yeah. So this is arguably the worst thing you can do for learning is multitasking. For as much as we love to do it and we do it all day, no human being can actually do it. We are really bad at it. When we try and do two tasks at once, our speed drops significantly, our accuracy drops in our memory tanks.

43:08Our brain starts using a secondary memory network. It's not good. So I always just say, if there's one thing you don't do when you learn, it's multitask. Just stay focused. Now give a kid a screen and say, time to learn from this screen. If you track how kids use screen over 2 ,500 hours every single year, age eight to 18, kids will use computers for multitasking. It's what they do. Let me open a tab. Let me watch a movie. Let me check this. Now I say, use that same machine to learn. What are they going to do? On average, if they're using a computer at home for studying, they make it six minutes before they start multitasking during which time man, studying's done go home.

43:48Um, when they use zoom for like live learning sessions at the beginning of COVID, they were making it about 15 minutes by the end of COVID, two minutes, which meant over half of our kids were logging on, waving at us and immediately going and doing something else. When kids use a computer in the classroom with the teacher, they're 24 to 38 minutes of every hour, they will be off task multitasking. And it's not a lot of people think, oh, the next generation's weak or it's a moral decrepitude. No, it's a pure training thing. If you accept that it takes say 10 ,000 hours to master anything as a rule of thumb.

44:22After four years of being introduced to tech, our kids have mastered one thing, multitasking. Every time I see a screen, now you're telling me I need to stay focused on this for 50 minutes. I won't be able to do it. I always kind of liken it to this. Like it's a bit of a crass analogy, but give me a group of alcoholics, sit them around a table, put a giant jug of beer in the middle of that table and say, all right, I want you guys to use this beer to learn about buoyancy. Go. There's nothing about beer that says you can't learn buoyancy. The tool is perfectly suited to the task. There's nothing that says you can't learn from tech.

44:57It works. But everyone around that table has a very different story about what beer should be used for. And every kid has a different story about what tech should be used for. And it ain't learning. So even if we manage not to drink the beer, I promise we wouldn't have gotten anything about fluid dynamics. We may have learned a little self-control that's as far as that's going to get so that's why the the if if for no other reason it take empathy off the table take transfer off take everything off the table the moment the computer left the classroom and entered the home and more importantly the pocket that should have been the death knell it was no longer considered a learning tool it's now an entertainment tool and that war is over so if nothing else if that was the only data point we had i'd say that was enough of a data point to shut this whole experiment down thank you man this is

45:45Shawn Stevenson:important stuff um now something else i want to talk about is it's not just that modern children are less cognitively developed they're also significantly less healthy and less happy than previous generations you know and it's again it's coming all together at one time but we're just explaining it away. And oftentimes again, doubling, tripling down on, we need more of these things, more tech, more medicalization of these things that are manifesting with our kids instead of what is the root cause? So let's talk a little bit about that because these things are not separate issues. When everything is going in the same direction and everyone knows exactly why, it's I'm always confused as to why so few people are willing to just get up and say it I mean it's common sense at this stage if only learning was going down we would have a discussion if only well-being was going down but everything else was staying up we'd have a discussion but when everything physical mental health everything is going down you can say there's a common culprit here what changed if since this date everything has gone on a downward slope, what started to happen on that date?

47:03Did you put something in the water? Did we start serving new food in the cafeteria? And when it's happening everywhere, you can really easily track it back to, oh, when we start giving kids tech in the classroom, learning goes down. When we give them that same tech in their life, relationships and health go down. I like, I hate to be, because as a scientist, I always have to temper my arguments. Like it may be, it could be, But in this case, it's just so dang painfully obvious that anyone who tries to push back against it, it just it's like fingernails on a chalkboard to me. It's like just and I don't believe that they don't a lot of the counter arguments against it.

47:42I don't believe are being made in good faith a lot of the time. I think it's people who if you got them over a beer one on one in a lab and just at the end of the day, they'd say, yeah, you're right. Kids shouldn't have tech. but due to other reasons, they will not say that out loud. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that.

47:59Shawn Stevenson:Perfect. Perfectly said. What do we do? Go home. Nothing. Just throw in the towel. We're done. Just go to the lake, take your phone and, you know, phone it in literally. So, you know, obviously you've dedicated this new project, the digital delusion that everybody needs to get a copy of like yesterday and dedicated to what do we do as parents? What do we do as teachers and educators? What do we do as people who might have positions of leadership and political influence? And just addressing these things, because if this is going to change in an efficacious way, it's gonna be top-down and bottom-up change.

48:42Shawn Stevenson:And so I really do appreciate that. But having you here, I wanna get some tips. For the parents who are listening, We do have a lot of educators who listen as well. So what can we start to do to redirect what's happening with our children in a place that we can truly make education, which has been intended to be effective so that our kids are going at that same pattern of each generation getting better. It's continuing to improve on us. And that's, isn't that all we want? Nobody wants kids who are underneath them. We all want them to be better than us. And we can do that. So you're right. So start at home as parents.

49:24We're going to get to the school issue in a second, but you control the tech milieu in your own home. And I know that's sometimes hard to accept and understand because the world is constantly you go by a stroller. Now it has a clip for an iPad in it. We're being told tech needs to be here. But it's just like any other physical object. If you have a vase, you don't like anymore. You throw it away. You can do that with tech. Yeah, it may have cost a little bit more money, but you're in charge. You get to do it. So some of just the easiest things I tend to say at home is first, if you do nothing else, buy a printer.

50:01If you did nothing different with your life, but you just printed out everything you read, your kid got homework, print it out. Your kid got a worksheet, print it out. If you did nothing but print out all your kid's work, they will learn better, grow faster than if they tried to do all that same homework on a computer. So go plant a tree, print everything out. It's the same with us in reading, man. If you genuinely care about an article online, print it out. We don't learn from online. The way we read online is we skim. We don't really pay attention to it. So if there's something that matters to you, print it out.

50:30From there, then you can start to do a tech audit. And you can do this with your kids. You can do it just to say, here's like an easy sheet. Let's track. How often do we use tech in this house? You want to make a change? Let's first start by figuring out what we're doing. And no judgment. There's nothing judgmental. We're just saying, when are we using it? And I think one of the cool things, so if we're doing that, with our kids, they can just kind of track where they're using it. As adults, we have an extra dimension is we're tracking how we're using it. And one of the extra questions is, did my kids see me use it?

51:00And if so, what message did that send? I think they don't need to worry about that, but we need to worry what are our kids seeing in us? Because they're learning their behaviors from us. So, and then we can start to make the decisions as, uh-oh, I see I'm checking my phone way too many times in a day. My kid sees that 50 % of the time. I should probably cut that back. Once you've done your audit, that's going to give you a good sense of what we can change, what we can tweak. And a couple of just simple ones are, you know, tech-free Sunday, pick one day a week where no one touches tech. Maybe you're not ready for that.

51:35Do half a day, do something, but it's not dad gets to work, but the kids don't get tech, all of us. And how do we fill that day? we come up with something that we do together. We go for a hike together. We turn it into a family event. The first two or three times you try that, it's going to suck. You're going to hate it. Your kids are going to hate it. Everyone's going to be so uncomfortable. That's because we're addicted. By the fourth time you do it, you're going to start to hit a groove and you're going to start to say, wow, why, why haven't we done this before? Why don't we do this more often?

52:02And then I think kind of another thing we can do as parents is, is help our kids learn this stuff is even if we're going to keep tech in our home. We are going to control when and where it is. The one thing we're not going to do is allow tech for learning. Anytime learning enters the equation in our home, we're going to build an analog home. We're going to start training you to think analog, not because I'm trying to harm you, not because I don't think games are fun, but because we know as adults that learning is better done analog and slow. And you might not understand that now as a kid, but you will thank me later.

52:36And the habits you do here, if you have to write your assignments at home, you're going to start to carry those habits into the classroom and you're going to start writing in the classroom, which is going to start to help you here. So we kind of build our base there. If you're a teacher, then, oh my gosh, there's so much to do, but no, what we, I'm a teacher. So just know I'm in the same boat. We know, and I'll just say one thing, teachers know what's going on. We're not stupid. If you talk to a teacher who's been around for longer than 10 years, almost to a man, they'll say, yeah, kids are doing worse.

53:06Why tech? They know it. We know it. It's fine. The one thing I'll tell teachers and they'll know this. And so this is important for parents to hear. Teachers don't have a voice. We don't have any say in anything. The principals, the administrators have a voice. Parents have a voice. Teachers do not. So if parents are waiting for teachers to pull the trigger, they're never going to, because our job is on the line. If I know something is wrong and I speak up, I could get fired. There's a district I worked with in Kansas where every kid has a laptop. The district is tracking how often kids use the laptop.

53:44And if a teacher doesn't have the kid use it for a certain amount of time per day, that teacher could lose their job. So you think that's going to be the person who's going to stand up and fight back? No, we keep our mouth shut. So realistically, the people making the decisions then are the highest up are the politicians are the principals are the superintendents most of them and i'm not being mean have no clue about education they're politicians what would they know it's it's just one more thing in their docket that they got to worry about so they make decisions based on gut feeling or what tech companies tell them this will help kids learn okay that makes sense this program is good which means at the end of the day circle back the only person with a real voice who can change is going to be parents.

54:27It's going to start with parents. And if we start speaking up at board meetings, at ed conferences, at wherever we can, what you're going to see is that's when teachers can chime in. Teachers are silent, but they are going to be your best allies. Once you start talking and they have to listen to you, you're a parent, they'll be the ones to sneak in and say, yeah, they're right. I got the data to support what they're saying and they'll tell you look the next person you have to talk to is this guy let me tell you how to phrase this next time teachers are going to be your best friends when you start talking but it's going to start with you they're never going to lead the charge so as parents now if we want to impact schools we push teachers will follow and administrators should listen lo and behold though i think a lot of them just don't know how bad it's gotten they'll start to

55:14Shawn Stevenson:to pay attention this is great advice wow thank you so much no no worries so this in and of itself is transformational. You've already changed a lot of lives just being able to hear this, but obviously again, knowledge isn't just power in and of itself, it's potential power. So it's doing something with it and taking some action. And if folks want to get more education in the good old fashion, tried and true actually does affect learning in a very positive way to read a book. No way. People could check out the digital delusion. August 18th, the updated, expanded version of the book is going to be available everywhere the books are sold.

55:58Shawn Stevenson:Yeah. All right. And so we've got some great resources. Can you tell people about the website as well? Yeah. Yeah. So if you look at LME Global, so that's learningmadeeasyglobal.net. That's just where I put anything I write about it goes there. all the videos like i'll make youtube videos about learning are there as well and i'll just for anyone interested the the point of the book was specifically for us to be able to push back so what i've learned in my time is you need you need well three things really one you need data which i always thought that'd be all you needed but data opens the door and this book will give you every bit of data you need.

56:38Two, then you need mechanisms. If you can explain why the data is saying what it's saying better than anything else, that's when people really start to change. So that's why a big portion of that book is just mechanisms. If this is how learning works, do you see why the data would say this? Then I'd say the third thing you need is just permission. And so hopefully this book and everything else is giving you, it's going to give you everything you need to say, let's do something. And for anyone who's read the original version and is wondering what's new on the new one. Um, there's, I say I've added 25 % more book.

57:10So it's like, I always see those like cookies with 25 % more cookies. But what I've added is there are 12 questions people keep getting, who are trying to, to the, who go to like an ed board. They're like 12 ways people push back. So I've addressed each and every one of those to say, here is what you do to go back. And so like, as an example, and you'll, you'll hear this, the big one is what about equity issues? Doesn't digital technology help bridge the gap between the highest and lowest performers? No, man, I don't think there's ever been a technology that has bridged the gap between if you think of any technology, take us something as simple as an air conditioner.

57:51There are very different peripherals and versions and types that the haves can buy that they have not simply can. So even there, most tools are going to make the gap between people worse. Digital technology, the data is very clear that once tech becomes primary to learning, the kids who are already good at learning do a little bit better. The kids who are struggling with learning, who are now told do it yourself on a screen, go way down. So the gaps in the learning gaps since about 2010 have blown up to larger than they've been since we've been recording them in the U.S. So no, tech is not going to be.

58:29So it's those kinds of questions where people will say, well, isn't this a blank or don't we have to worry about blank? And I'll lay it out loud for the data and mechanisms that know those aren't, those aren't things to push back with. Those are, those are problems, not solutions. I love this.

58:44Shawn Stevenson:A great FAQ really. Yeah. Is the bonus. Yeah, exactly. Like how do you do this stuff? So thank you so much for that. Anywhere else people can connect with you? I guess if you just look me up, Jared Cooney Horvath on YouTube or Substack or stuff, I just got everything out there. It's just, I'm around. You can't miss me. Well, I appreciate you so much. This was a delightful, delightful conversation. I feel like I learned a lot. I'm in the room, I'm in present and I'm really picking up some things that I want to implement myself. And also just to further this mission, super important. Thank you. Thank you for even giving this the time of day.

59:19Like that just, we're on the same wavelength and it's good to know that of people like you were fighting for it. Yes, yes.

59:26Shawn Stevenson:Well, with that, The Digital Delusion, pick up your copy. Get a copy for a friend, get a copy for a school district. All right. Oh, for a principal, oh no. The one and only Jared Cooney Horvath, everybody. Thank you so much for tuning into this episode today. I hope that you got a lot of value out of this. This is a conversation to share. You need to share this in a big, big way. get this out to the people in your family, your community, get this into the hands of educators. There are so many moments in this episode, in this interview that are highlighting all the different angles of what's happening with our children's education.

1:00:07Shawn Stevenson:We need to take back control of our most precious resource and how they're being educated. Again, our children are just born into these circumstances. They didn't ask for things to be the way that they are. We have so many incredible innovations that do have education-affirming and health-affirming benefits, but there are some huge flaws that simply do not need to be present. And interviews like this are so important in helping to change this paradigm. I can't tell you how many times episodes here on the Model Health Show have created measurable change in the world. I'm talking about in the political landscape.

1:00:51Shawn Stevenson:I'm talking about in the education landscape. I'm talking about in the relationship landscape and reaching people who really have the power to change what's happening society-wide and community-wide. I'm talking about there are a lot of mayors and governors and senators who've listened to the Model Health Show or have been presenting with information from the Model Health Show. You know, people that are now working in the FDA, people that are now working in, again, positions to where they are influencing policy. And so you never know. You never know whose heart and whose mission you can impact by sharing.

1:01:33Shawn Stevenson:So I appreciate you for being a part of this mission. And listen, we've got some epic masterclasses and world-leading experts coming your way very, very soon. So make sure to stay tuned. Take care. Have an amazing day. And I'll talk with you soon.