The Internet Needs Proof You’re Human

22:02Tiago Sada:And then your phone guides you to the process, which basically is just like standing in front of the camera, just like I am right now. You don't have to get close or anything like that. And a little light goes around for like 15 seconds. It goes like, boop, boop, boop, boop. And then you verify it. Like all of your data gets sent to your phone. You can see how it gets deleted from the camera. And that's it, right? You can walk out. The app then now has like a list of like all sorts of things that you can now do with your ID, right? So you can prove on Zoom that you are indeed who you say you are and not a deep fake.

22:33Tiago Sada:You can verify on Tinder that you are a real human and you actually get free extra boosts on Tinder if you have a human verified account. If you're a developer, you can integrate this with apps like Vercel or Exa or Browse Surveys to add some of these agentic systems that we're talking about. There are certain Shopify stores, we have an integration with Shopify, that give exclusive discounts to verified humans or verified agents that are shopping on behalf of a human. And so there's like this whole little ecosystem that is growing and getting bigger every day. It's basically like a VIP lane across the internet where apps will give you priority because you are a human and they can trust you.

23:12Tiago Sada:So they would be, Tinder is much more excited to feature profiles of real humans than profiles that don't know who they are. And so you're just going to get a special treatment in all of these apps. And I think eventually in the entire internet. I don't think we'll have a point anytime soon where you're not allowed to use that WorldID. I think it's very important that WorldID is an optional system. But I do think that you'll get boosts and boosted experiences on basically every site on the internet sooner rather than later. Yeah. And in particular, it seems like with purchasing would be really helpful.

23:47Like the areas where people already have a lot of concern when they're spending.

23:52Tiago Sada:Like, you know, when I remember when the Internet was fairly new, you know, people were like, there is no way I'm sticking my credit card on a website. And it was it was a whole big thing. And, you know, with fair reason over the years, it was an issue at times. It seems more relevant today than ever for things like that beyond payment. And you mentioned other things, but like, I'm curious, who do you have partnerships with now that can do this? Like in what fields, if you don't mind me asking? Yeah, for sure. So it's generally three buckets of kind of partners. We have integrations for people, and that is the most popular ones are the gaming ones.

24:30Tiago Sada:We have an integration with Razer, which is obviously like the biggest. They have like hundreds of millions of users around the world. And through that, we integrate with games. On the dating side of things, we have a partnership with March Group, where the first of their apps we're deploying this is on Tinder. But they're obviously like this company that owns Hinch and they own a bunch of the different Match.com and a bunch of the dating apps that people use. And then the most recent one that we did there that I really like is this thing called ConcertKit. And ConcertKit is a new platform that is compatible with all ticket and systems around the world.

25:08Tiago Sada:So it's compatible with like Ticketmaster and Eventbrite and Tixer and depending on where your artist goes. And it works a little bit like the fan clubs do, where the artists can reserve a portion of their tickets, just like they would today for their fan clubs. They can reserve a portion of their tickets for verified humans. And so if you are a verified human, in some cases it's a pre-sale, in some cases it's just a normal sale. but you get to have access to the tickets at the fair price rather than whatever they're being resold after. Whatever scalpers are jacking them into the stratosphere for.

25:38That is such an amazing thing you're doing because that's been a real problem in the entire events industry. I mean, in sports and everything where you have scalpers and now legitimate formed businesses that are living with an algorithm that is the second tickets go on sale, able to just bombard their system, get all of the good tickets and then set the price they want to sell them for. And I mean, that's not benefiting the artist. It's not benefiting the consumer or the sports teams or anyone. And I love the idea of human verification in that specific arena. Is that kind of what led you there?

26:15Tiago Sada:Honestly, just we have the problem, too, right? I love concerts. Just last week I went to three different concerts. Wow. And some big, some small. But I think like the one thing that brings all people together is music, right? And our love for music. And I think we all hate that this happens, right? I hate showing up to a venue and just like having a bunch of random people being like, do you want tickets? It just like pisses me off because I know I paid more for my ticket because this guy had like taken all the tickets. Yeah. And so we knew World ID could solve it. And I think the unlock was to realize that there was this whole system already built to support things like pre-sales from credit cards or things like the fan clubs.

27:04Tiago Sada:And we could just hook up world idea infrastructure and we call that concert kit. And so we just created this little tool for artists. And the response from artists and labels and ticketing platforms has been amazing. We just announced last month that the first artist that is using this is 30 Seconds to Mars. They're right now selling their next world tour. And they're using World ID to protect a portion of their tickets for their concerts. And it's been really cool to see. We also had an event recently in San Francisco where we wanted to showcase the power of World ID and Concert Kid. And so we had a surprise guest.

27:42Tiago Sada:We have Anderson Paak performing as DJ Peewee and St. Vincent performing also as our DJ alias St. Vicious. And we had a concert that night. And it was a free concert for humans. So it wasn't just the classic scalper problem. It was playing on a hard mode because the tickets were free, right? So if you could create a bunch of accounts, you could just literally get all the tickets for the concert. And we put that at the Midway, which was really cool. It's this very classic concert venue in San Francisco that I've gone to concerts with. We integrated that with their ticketing system, Tixer, and we just put it out there.

28:20Tiago Sada:And within a few hours, we had had hundreds of thousands of bots attacking the site, trying to get these tickets, but they couldn't get them. We, at the end of the day, I think capacity was about 2 ,000. we had a few thousand we had about a thousand people claim tickets and each person could claim up to two tickets so they could bring a friend and it was a super fun night we all had a blast and i think was a really good proof point of what this technology can do not just out there in the real world when tickets cost money but in the most extreme scenario when the tickets are free and even then the bots couldn't do it my favorite part about the concert was the team have when you were coming into the venue there was a line of people and then on the on the wall there was this huge projection of a line of bots trying to get in and they couldn't get in and so the bots stayed outside of the concert and only the only the people were able to come in oh that's wild and oops okay what did you learn from that event like how how did people react how was the response to it were people largely willing did anybody kind of freak out and turn away because i know people get a a little strange around things, not strange, but, you know, get a little extra protective around identity and such.

29:35Yeah.

29:35Tiago Sada:And I think they should, right? I think people, we have built this muscle of being skeptical of what we see and hear from online platforms, because I think we've all gotten burned in the last 20 years, right? And, but I think what we've found in the case of World is that when we launch on a new city and San Francisco is somewhere where we had already been, at the beginning, you definitely only get the early adopters, right? And I think that's completely normal. But then as those people start getting in and as people start seeing not just their friends, but the platforms that they know and trust use this and they hear from experts that the system is not only open source, but it's like legitimately super secure because we just don't have the data.

30:15Tiago Sada:Then you start building up this trust and you start getting the critical mass, right? And so San Francisco is a market that we opened a few years ago. And so I think we're now at that point where people know and trust it. And so a lot of people already had a Verify World ID. And the ones that didn't had actually, it was our record day of verifications in the United States of people that wanted to go and verify to do this. And we had everything from people showing up to coffee shops, people showing up to our new flagship location in downtown, the heart of San Francisco, people using the Orb on Demand feature.

30:47Tiago Sada:We even had a DeLorean driving around the city verifying people. And so I think it's now at a point where like people understand the problem and because we've been around for a while, because they've heard their friends verify, because they hear that apps like Tinder and like all of these big platforms are integrating, I think now they trust it. And so, yeah, it was really cool to see. And I think what was really special about it is there's use cases that are probably more important from an like economical perspective, right? Or like the risks of society. And we can talk about, we've been talking a lot about World ID for people.

31:20Tiago Sada:We can talk about World ID for enterprises in a second. And so on paper, those are probably more valuable. But there's something about these use cases for people, in particular the music one, that just like really resonates with people. And when we're trying to educate people about the problem, about our technology, I think we've found that this is a really effective way of like showing people, you know what, like there's these things that you and I really care about. And the internet could be an even better place, a much nicer place if we have this thing, right? And so just seeing everyone understand the problem, seeing everyone be excited and huge lines on the orbs for people to verify, and then everyone having so much fun and enjoying the benefits of this.

32:01Tiago Sada:It was a really, really magical experience. And what I now expect will happen, and we've gotten a lot of inbound, like I was saying, from artists, from labels, from ticketing sites themselves, that they also want to do this. I think there's some misconception sometimes in the music industry. It's on their best interest to have the resales or whatever. I can tell you, no, like all of these, the artists, the platforms, the labels, they all want to solve this problem. They all want to put the fans first. And so they'll now get to use WorldID to do that. That's so awesome. And it's definitely a thing I think surely we've all felt it before.

32:36Like I go to a ton of concerts, too. And like, you know, the good seats are never there. All of that is already gone. And it's immediately up on, you know, broker sites for X, whatever its list price was. And I think it's a really cool approach to solving that. Something I'd like, I'm curious about that I didn't ask earlier for one reason or another. In thinking about the world ID itself, what does it keep storing? I remember you mentioned once that like you don't have to store yourself. Can you elaborate on that a little?

33:09Tiago Sada:Yeah, it's a really counterintuitive system. because the easy way to build a system like this is you go to an org that takes your photos, we send them to a server, and then we keep all that ourselves and we can then use that to figure out who has verified and who hasn't. We compare things. And that, I think, is a very creepy way of building a system. I think something like this has to be not just open source, it has to be anonymous by default. I think that it is very important that in the process of trying to solve some of the challenges that AI is going to bring, we cannot sacrifice internet anonymity.

33:50Tiago Sada:And I think that sometimes like platforms, but especially governments are like so freaked out by what's happening that their first impulse is just like, okay, we need to verify your identity on this and that side. And I think that would be a really big loss for the internet if all of a sudden we now have to dox ourselves and give up our personal data to everyone. both from a philosophical perspective, but also from a practical perspective of, it's just impossible to safeguard this data. Like there is anything that's sitting on a server, like at some point, someday, will get let loose, right? And like we've seen this with every week you hear about a new site that was verifying people's identity.

34:30It's more and more. They guys ramp that up a lot.

34:32Tiago Sada:Yeah. And they're trying really hard to safeguard it, right? And so, and the thing is, many of those platforms would prefer to not have your data. And like, we are the same way. We don't want people's data. And so we went about it a little bit differently. We took a step back and we thought, okay, like what, how can you build a system like this in a way that is self-custodial? And that means that only you have custody of these personal photos that the orb is taking of you. And doing that, the challenge with that is that that then opens the door to a bunch of security issues, right? If you have to trust the user, then the user can lie, right?

35:11Tiago Sada:And so that also doesn't work. And so we worked on a couple of novel cryptography primitives. And so the way the system works is the org will take the photos. It'll analyze them locally on the device to make sure that you are indeed a really unique person, that you're not a dog, that you're not wearing a mask, trying to cheat, that you're not whatever. And so that's the first step. It processes all that locally on this NVIDIA chip, it's the NVIDIA Jetson. Then it signs those and it sends them to your device. And then comes a step of proving that you're unique. And so for that, there is a new type of cryptography called anonymized multi-party computation.

35:50Tiago Sada:And basically the way that works is you sort of like you hash the data and then you chop it up into a bunch of little pieces and you send those little pieces to universities around the world. Berkeley here in the US, the University of Korea, the University in ETH Zurich, a few universities around the world. And so they don't know anything about yourself. They have a little scrambled, hashed, cut up piece of yourself, but doing some really cool math without ever bringing those pieces back together. In fact, it's impossible to then reverse to the original images. You can And go and do like a little ceremony where by doing some magic math, you can prove that you've never verified before.

36:30Tiago Sada:And that happens without us having to have any of your data and without any of those universities having anything that is meaningful about yourself. Other than that, one scrap of a shredded image has gone through the head. One scrap of a shredded scrambled image. Yeah. Right. And so imagine that you have a, that you take a palette for like colors, right? you're going to paint. Yeah. And you put a little bit of yellow, a little bit of green, a little bit of red, a little bit of blue, and that would be your personal information. And then you scramble all of that and you have like this mixed up version of your colors.

37:06Tiago Sada:And then you cut all of that into little pieces and then you give those little pieces to everyone, right? Anyone that has one of those little pieces cannot know what the spots of color were originally. They cannot work it back, right? So it works a little bit like that. It's a really cool system. we there's a paper from the Red Cross about at this point something like a year and a half two years ago that talks about how how could you protect users' personal data in their case in the context of health data and they were looking at ways to future proof their systems and they started the paper in the earlier parts of it they talk about how well the ideal setup would be to have a multi-party compute system but that that was probably computationally impossible to pull off.

37:51Tiago Sada:And so then the rest of the paper describes versions that are inferior or that have trade-offs because this one was impossible. And well, we're very lucky we have a lot of really smart cryptographers here and they cracked a way to make that work. It's still really expensive. Don't get me wrong, like from a compute perspective, we spend a few million dollars a year running those operations, but it's cheap enough where you can actually run that on production at population scale. And so that's how you can prove that you're unique without anyone having to keep your data. And then the last piece is something called zero knowledge proofs, which comes into play when you're actually using your world ID on apps and on like Tinder or whatever it is.

38:29Tiago Sada:Zero knowledge proofs is this new type of cryptography that, again, lets you prove something without revealing the underlying data. And in this case, what you're proving is you're proving that you have been verified by an orb. So you're a real human. You're proving that you are unique, that you have done the AMP-C step, and that you haven't performed whatever step the app wants you to perform, right? So you haven't verified a Tinder account before or you haven't verified more than 10 Twitter accounts or whatever it is. And so it is really cool primitive. And so essentially what is happening is every time you use your world ID on an app or a website, you're generating like a disposable version of your ID.

39:10Tiago Sada:And so those apps and across these apps, they never get the same user ID. And so no one can know what you're doing with your ID on other apps, not those apps. So they're not seeing your actual code. They're seeing... Exactly. They're seeing a random generated disposable version of your ID that you're using just on that instance. And then you'll turn around and you'll do something else and it'll be a completely different ID, right? And that is, what's really important about that is that is, that's not just the case, not just the apps cannot see what else you've done. We, as the makers of that protocol, cannot see what you've done.

39:44Tiago Sada:Only you, the user that has your world ID on your phone, knows what are all of the different disposable IDs that you have generated. And so when you put all these things together, right, your data is only processed locally on the org and then deleted. You only stored your personal images on your device. You use anonymized multi-party compute to prove that you're unique. and then you use zero-knowledge proofs to, without revealing anything about yourself, generate like these disposable versions for your ID. When you look at that holistically, it turns out the world is not just private. It is perhaps the most private system you've ever used in your life.

40:23Tiago Sada:And that is often very surprising for people. You have to just think, it seems like this should be my debit card. Yeah, exactly. And I think that with open source, everything that I've just talked about is open source. The hardware of the Orbe is open source. The firmware of the Orbe is open source. The AMP C system is open source, the zero knowledge proofs are open source, the SDKs are open source. And that is, yes, in part for transparency and security, right? But also because we want other people to copy this, right? We want the Red Cross to be able to go and use AMP C. We want hopefully someday the social media sites and all of these platforms, they start adopting these kind of technologies that we've developed.

41:00Tiago Sada:Just as they adopted end-to-end encryption when it was good enough to go mainstream, right? And I think now we've proven that the technology not only works, but that these primitives work at scale. And so it can get adopted by platforms like this. So something I want to clarify for readers to make sure I'm right is that I am verifying that I am a human, but I am not necessarily verifying that I am Corey Knowles, the human, the human Corey Knowles. Is that correct? Yes and no. And that is a very, so by default, the answer is yes. you and certainly your name and your legal identity, there's nothing we can prove about that.

41:39Tiago Sada:That is a separate problem that governments will solve. And what we're now seeing, starting to see happen is some governments, they're like, well, this technology, these rails that you've built are pretty cool, right? Where like users custody their own credentials, you have all of this cryptography. Can we issue our government credentials in your format, right? And use your rails. So I think that will definitely happen. But the orb, the orb verification, the only thing that proves is that you're a real and unique human. Now, there's a caveat to that. That is not a bad caveat. It's actually a really cool thing.

42:11Tiago Sada:It's a system we call WorldID DeepFace. While we cannot prove to you that Corey, who I'm seeing right now, is actually Corey Knowles, you can use WorldID to prove that the person that you're seeing right now is actually who they say they are. And why can we do that? Well, because when you go to the orb, you, and it takes those photos of you, on your phone, you have a photo of your face saved, right? And that is very important because how does, for example, our Zoom integration work? The way our Zoom integration works that helps you prevent deepfakes on calls is you essentially take a screenshot of what you're seeing right now on the screen, you compare it, you send it encrypted to your phone, and locally it gets compared to that photo, that face that the orb had seen, And it also asked me to take a selfie.

43:02Tiago Sada:So it gets compared with a third image, which is who is here in person right now. And when you have those three pieces, when you have the image that's coming from the video stream, the photo that the orb saw that is signed and that you verify in real life, and a selfie that I take right now, I can prove to you, not that I'm not a deep fake, but that I am, that the face that you're seeing is actually who is behind the camera. I may be using a deep fake of myself if for whatever reason I want to do that. But I am who I say I am. And that is a very powerful primitive. It's very powerful for video calls and now Zoom, as I was mentioning, is our first integration there.

43:38Tiago Sada:But you can imagine it's also powerful for things like when you're setting photos on a dating app, right? When you can use WorldID to prove that the face, the person that you're setting on those photos actually matches who you are, right? Now, those photos may be AI generated, but the face matches who you are, right? So you're not impersonating someone. And so it's a really cool system. Then we've released actually one of my favorite products we ever did was we like to not just build these technologies, but sometimes build products that demonstrate some of these capabilities. And so at the end of last year, we released a messenger.

44:11Tiago Sada:It's called World Chat. And one of my favorite little features on World Chat is, well, the first one is when you're texting with someone, the bubbles are blue if you're talking to a verified human and they're gray if you're talking to someone that's not verified. Right. Kind of like the green bubble, blue bubble. But the coolest thing is the profile pictures are verified. So you can only set a profile picture on WorldShot if it matches your real face. And so that's a very simple thing, but it's actually incredibly powerful because when you talk probably to your friends and family, the amount of scams, in particular in places like Asia and in Latam with apps like WhatsApp, I can't tell you how many family members have gotten scammed because someone is impersonating someone else on WhatsApp.

44:54Tiago Sada:And so there's like these little small details where, well, with WorldID, you can now actually trust that the profile picture that you're seeing is in fact what they say they are. And so that's the nuance there. And that is a really cool thing you can do with WorldID because you have the face photo that the orb took of you on your device. Wow. That's really cool. That's really cool. So you would think of this in the short term as probably a thing you're using in addition to your identification as another identification. but I can absolutely see why there would be a desire for those to intermingle at some point and become one in the same.

45:29Like, I think the first thing I would want to do is, you know, kind of find a way to connect those together. Yeah.

45:37Tiago Sada:And like, for example, imagine that just as you can prove with WorldID that you're a real human, well, if the government issues your driver's license on the WorldID standard, well, you can now go to a website And that website, if they're selling, if you're going to buy a bottle of wine, it can ask you to prove that you're over 21 without having to give them your ID, your personal information. They don't want it. You don't want to give it to them. You don't want to type it all up. You just want to press a button and prove to them that you're over 21. And you could do that, right? You could prove if you are taking, I don't know, social welfare.

46:12Tiago Sada:You can prove to your government that you are, in fact, a citizen of that government, right? And so you can do all these primitives that we're developing, these technologies. they are useful in the context of identity. What's really important is we not only are not interested, we cannot replace governments when it comes to the issuance of those credentials, right? I think that legal identity is something that is a responsibility of the government. But we're now seeing, you can definitely do a lot of cool things when you take those credentials and you put them on the format of the World ID standard.

46:43I love that. Yeah, yeah. And I guess that's essentially what we're talking about here is this being the standard, I would say, is the idea that this would be like the protocol for human verification, I assume.

46:56Tiago Sada:Exactly, yeah. It's a protocol that has, in general, it's an identity protocol where you can have credentials. The first and the most important credential is a credential that says you're a real and unique human, but you can have other credentials, right? And so, for example, when we were talking about there's lower levels of verification, that is behind the scenes other credentials, right? You can take a selfie on your phone, and will issue you a credential, that credential is worthless, but you will have a different kind of credential behind the scenes. And so in the future, I think governments will issue that, but they're not just governments.

47:27Tiago Sada:I think companies will issue you employee credentials through the system and you'll get to prove that you are in fact working this company or that you have access to this specific software. Universities, right, they will issue student IDs using this standard. And so it really is this open protocol for credentials that is privacy first and that is underpinned by proof of human, right? That is the really key thing about the protocol is not just all of the fancy privacy and cryptography, but the fact that everything is underpinned by the human credential, that is the base layer that then lets you build really cool things on top of that.

48:02And in an increasingly agentic internet space, the need to separate those things is going to become more and more apparent, I think, in very short term, like more so every month for the foreseeable future, probably.

48:18Tiago Sada:Yeah. And I think that this is something that I think the apps have also come around to, right? I think that the same questions that you had, well, why can't I do Capture? Why can't I do that? Many of the partners that we have today, we had talked to a year, two years, three years ago, and we had pitched them the system. We were smaller back then, but many of them thought, they said, no, you know what? We're not going to need this. We're going to be able to solve it in this other different way. And now they've also been surprised by how quickly all of this has advanced. And I think that if that has been what has happened in the last six months, especially since I think the models that came out in December and then opened Claw after that, which is like really took the world by storm, I think we'll have many more moments like that.

48:57Tiago Sada:And so Proof of Human becomes only more and more important as we go. And so, as you said, we're running as fast as we can to deploy this and make it accessible to as many people as we can. because we can have a great system, but if you can't just like walk 10 minutes and get verified, then the system may as well not exist, right? And so this is why we're so focused on scaling this, yes, to even more apps, but also just increasing access to everyone that wants to verify. Does that involve like expanding to new cities, new locations, different approaches to having it done even? I'm just curious.

49:33I mean, you don't have to let us in on like your specific plans. I'm just kind of curious, what does scaling look like?

49:40Tiago Sada:So definitely part of it is just geographic coverage, right? I don't know. There's probably no orbs right now in St. Louis, Missouri. So there should be orbs in St. Louis, Missouri. I agree. Now, the way you do that is, yes, you can deploy the existing device with the existing operating model. But you can also start thinking, okay, how do you make that more scalable? For example, last year we announced that we're working on a new, smaller, much cheaper version of the device. And so if something costs a fifth the price and it now fits in your pocket or in your backpack instead of being a big ball that you have to carry on, there's probably going to be a lot more of those.

50:14Tiago Sada:Another thing that we're working on a lot is what we call self-serve. Historically, all orbs were in locations. Think of like malls where you would walk in and there was employees and they would guide you through the process. And now we think about them much more as like ATMs, right? We should just be able to deploy them around the world in a coffee shop, in a corner of a convenience store without us having to have a lease, without us having to have a person there helping you out. We just walk up to it and it guides you through the process. And so there's some of it is obviously operations, but a lot of it is also just the technology, right?

50:42Tiago Sada:The technology making it smaller, making it more accessible, making it easier for you to use yourself without help. And so that allows us to just deploy at a dramatically different scale. And so that's what allowed us to grow a lot last year. And we're continuing to work a lot on that. And that is in the second half this year, and especially in 2027, I think you'll see a dramatically increased number of devices out there. And it's all aligned with this either new devices, new ways of deploying it, and then obviously just the hard work of deploying it. Wow, that's really neat. And yeah, I'd never considered the idea of it getting smaller, more portable, more affordable, more, you know, maybe other people have them.

51:24Tiago Sada:And it basically becomes like a gig economy kind of thing, right? The idea is if you have a coffee shop, well, maybe you buy one of these things for like 500 bucks. You put it on your coffee shop and that's going to drive coffee to your coffee shop. People are going to come to verify. You're going to make a little bit of money for every verification, but people are also then probably going to buy a coffee, right? And so we think that entrepreneurs around the world, when you have a smaller and cheaper device, they themselves will be the ones deploying things. And so the model really flips from us pushing this around the world to people pulling this and people just buying orbs online and then finding creative ways to deploy them.

52:00And getting their friends online and their family. And yeah, wow.

52:04Tiago Sada:Exactly. That's really cool. I guess one last question before I let you go here. Where do you see this in, let's say, five years? Do you think we're at a point where this is pretty widespread? spread has how we even use the internet changed entirely you know i it's really hard to predict anything right now so i understand that i'm kind of throwing you a hornet's nest of crystal ball here yeah well let me answer this way it's very hard for me to imagine a world where ai advances as much as i think it will over the next 10 years and the internet doesn't completely break without something like this.

52:45Tiago Sada:And trust me, I've tried because our job is try to come up with an answer that is not the orb. That is what we've done every day for the last six years. No one wakes up and says, I want to build hardware and deploy it around the world. It's a really hard thing to do. It is. The protocol is really cool, but if we found a better way to verify that you're human, we would very happily do that. And so I think that then the inescapable conclusion, I don't think we'll let the internet die i think the internet is too important for for it to die and so if you think that ai is going to advance as much as i think we all think it will and it'll probably advance even more than we think because all this stuff compounds right yeah uh and you think that you don't want to let the internet die um because it's too important then to me the inescapable conclusion is that a proof human system like world ID will be used basically for every app and every website that we use.

53:43Tiago Sada:And that may be you're explicitly using it, or it may be it's integrated with your operating system or your browser and behind the scenes is doing like the handshake, right? That's also totally possible. But as crazy as it sounds, I just like, that's the conclusion that I reach, right? And that was a crazy conclusion six years ago. I think that it's gone a little bit crazier over the last few years, especially this year. I think that it's like, okay, this in fact seems to be the way the world is going. And so that's what I would say. I think that anything and everything we do on the internet will require some sort of proof of human.

54:17Tiago Sada:I think that will be world ID and we'll see where the world goes. That's amazing. Tiago, thank you so much for joining us today. It's been fascinating. Thank you. Thank you so much, Corey. Yeah, this was super fun. Excellent. What's the best way for people to learn more? Yeah, so world.org is a website, world network on Twitter, you have a YouTube channel. One of my favorite ways of learning about world is we, every six months or so, we have these keynotes. They're really cool. We showcase some of the new integrations and whatnot, the new products. And so you have a bit of time. It's really worth watching.

54:48Tiago Sada:We've done three or four of those throughout the years. We just did one last month in April in San Francisco. And so they're a great way to just like go deeper in the project and catch up on the latest news. That's fantastic. Well, thank you so much. And I look forward to being in San Francisco and doing it myself. Yeah, I'm excited to help you out in person. Awesome. Awesome. Well, to everyone watching, please take just a moment to like and subscribe. If you haven't yet, that way you can always make sure you're not missing interviews like this with the things that are happening in and around AI and the future of technology.

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