In short
Podcast Summary: The News Agents - USA
Episode Title
Exclusive: George Santos on Trump's Get Out of Jail Free Pass
Release Date: [Tuesday/Wednesday]
Episode Description In this episode, Emily Maitlis and Jon Sopel interview George Santos, the former Republican congressman who was recently commuted from a seven-year prison sentence for wire fraud and identity theft after serving only 87 days. Santos discusses his crimes, his appeal for clemency, and the implications of his release in the context of Trump’s America in 2025.
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Key Themes and Discussions
- George Santos' Commutation
- Background: Santos was imprisoned for aggravated identity theft and fraud, having served only three months of a seven-year sentence.
- Donald Trump's Role: Santos wrote a letter of loyalty to Trump, which led to his sentence being commuted.
- Public Perception of Justice: The episode raises questions about fairness and the implications of Trump's involvement in the legal system.
- Santos' Admissions and Accountability
- Acknowledgment of Crimes: Santos describes his actions as "poor choices" rather than mistakes, detailing his fraud involving campaign donations.
- Impact on Victims: Emily Maitlis confronts Santos about the real lives he affected, emphasizing that he stole from ordinary people, including veterans.
- Santos' Perspective on Sentencing
- Comparative Sentencing: Santos suggests there is an unequal application of justice, referencing other politicians who received lighter sentences.
- Prison Conditions: Santos shares his experience in solitary confinement, describing it as detrimental to his mental health.
- The Nature of Political Pardon
- Clemency as Political Favor: The discussion explores the idea of political loyalty leading to pardons and the implications for the integrity of the U.S. justice system.
- Santos' Defensiveness: Santos expresses frustration over being characterized as a typical beneficiary of political favoritism.
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Key Quotes
- "Is that what justice looks like in America? Just suck up to Donald Trump and you walk free."
- "I've made some very poor choices... they were poor choices."
- "The power of the presidency is plenary in the name of clemency."
Santos on His Future
- Rehabilitation Goals: Santos expresses a desire to reform and help others avoid the mistakes he made.
- Public Image and Responsibility: He acknowledges needing to repair his image and the need to atone for his past actions.
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Conclusion This episode provides an in-depth look at the controversial commutation of George Santos, raising important questions about justice, accountability, and the intertwining of politics and personal loyalty in the United States. The discourse reflects broader societal concerns regarding the rule of law and political privilege.
For Further Information:
- Visit The News Agents website: [The News Agents](https://www.thenewsagents.co.uk/)
- For advertising opportunities, contact: dax@global.com
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Additional Segment
East Wing of the White House
- The episode briefly discusses the ongoing renovations in the East Wing of the White House, suggesting a performative aspect to Trump's presidency. The commentary critiques the use of donor money for renovations and raises concerns about transparency and potential corruption.
Key Takeaway: The episode not only addresses Santos’ legal troubles but also serves as a commentary on the current political landscape and the implications of privilege within it.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:02The News Agents:This is a Global Player original podcast. And what about George Santos? Um, boy. He just went away, seven years.
0:10George Santos:You know, he was, uh, he lied like hell. I mean, I have to tell you.
0:16The News Agents:Yeah. And I didn't know him, but he was 100 % for Trump.
0:20George Santos:That is Donald Trump explaining why he has just commuted the seven-year sentence of a former congressman, George Santos, imprisoned for fraud. We have the first UK broadcast interview with George Santos coming up. He was imprisoned for seven years. After Donald Trump's intervention, he only served three months of that seven-year sentence. Is that what justice looks like in America? Just suck up to Donald Trump and you walk free. Welcome to the News Agents USA. The News Agents USA with Emily Maitlis and John Sopel. It's John. It's Emily. And you might remember George Santos, who has been on the News Agents in the past.
1:12George Santos:We interviewed him last in January on Inauguration Day on a very cold January afternoon in Washington, D.C. And at that point, he was awaiting trial. He was subsequently convicted and he was given the maximum sentence, seven years, for what was essentially aggravated identity theft, fraud, deception. He started to serve that seven-year sentence, but he wrote a letter to Donald Trump. And in that letter, he professed his loyalty, his fealty, his devotion, his admiration for the president. and on Friday night, unbeknown to George Santos, his sentence was suddenly commuted. Not pardoned, but commuted.
2:04George Santos:In other words, George Santos was told he would walk free and the amount of money that he owed to all the people that he had defrauded was wiped clean. Technically, legally, he owes nothing. Trump congratulated George Santos for having, his words, the courage, conviction and intelligence to always vote Republican. He gave him that commutation, in other words, for personal loyalty, like a rosette. So George Santos had pleaded guilty to the charges levelled against him and the court then passed sentence. There were a whole number of other charges that had been made about Santos. that the court did not adjudicate on because of the already having the guilty plea from him.
2:58George Santos:So the backstory of George Santos is simultaneously colourful, exotic, flamboyant. I mean, he's the guy who embellished his entire CV, his parents' CV, his stories of misery, his education, his commitment, his... I mean, you name it. And if you look at the lies that were told, if George Santos had a moral compass, he must have jumped up and down on it a thousand times and broken it into a million different pieces. Because George Santos would say whatever needed to be said at any given moment so that it would serve his political advantage. And ultimately, he became unstuck as a result of this. We got to know George Santos over the last few months, and that's why he's come to us with this first UK interview.
3:49And you're going to hear what George Santos thinks about his sentence, about the letter he wrote, about that relationship with Donald Trump, but also about the time he spent in prison.
4:01George Santos:And he says 41 days in pretty much solitary confinement and about the conditions in which he lived and why he now wants to turn things around. So this is not an apology tour. This is an accountability interview. But it might open your eyes to some of the things that you didn't know.
4:28George Santos:well joining us now with his first UK broadcast interview is the former congressman George Santos he's just served three months of a seven-year prison sentence for fraud deception aggravated identity theft when Donald Trump commuted his sentence last week George Santos just explain to us what you did. What was the wire flawed? What was the aggravated identity theft? Spell out what that means.
4:56The News Agents:Well, Emily, first of all, thank you for having me. Thank you for your audience. It's good to be here with you. And to make this very clear, I've made some very poor choices. And I know a lot of people, and I used to call them mistakes. No, they were poor choices. Part of that being, and as you can look at the court records and allocution, when I did my allocution, I essentially straw donated to my campaign with my own funds and used the names of a lot of my family members to make those donations without their knowledge. And that is aggravated identity theft per se in the United States. But also as far as wire fraud, you can only imagine, I think I had nine counts of it, if I'm not mistaken.
5:38The News Agents:Every transaction you make during a course of action like that becomes a different count of wire fraud. So those were just to sum it up and for the sake of brevity and not going too deep into the docket. But that's kind of the crux of the entire case that builds up around my very self-destructive and self-inflicted wounds that I embarked in in the year 2021 and into the year 2022 ahead of my election.
6:06George Santos:It wasn't just self-destructive. You destroyed a lot of people's livelihoods and lives. You stole from ordinary people. You stole from GoFundMe campaigns. You stole from veterans. You stole from ordinary people. This wasn't from rich, powerful men. This was from ordinary people who had just been trying to donate. There is one veteran who accuses you of taking his money. Money saved up,£3 ,000. And when he heard about the sentence being commuted, he said, it stuck me in the gut with a knife. You ruin people's lives.
6:38The News Agents:So Emily, I want to clear this because the story of the veteran is very sensational. First of all, I've never met him. He did not contribute to my campaign. It's not a political relationship. This was a, I was very involved throughout years, actually a decade and a half in animal rescue. It's something that I've always been passionate about, volunteering countless hours, spending thousands of my own dollars, actually tens of thousands of my own dollars. I was not charged for any conduct that involved any kind of misappropriation of funds and rescuing. More so, anybody who ever looked at the records, they can see that that's not true.
7:15The News Agents:Mr. Osthoff had an unfortunate circumstance that when he approached us in 2014 with help for his dog, his dog required a surgery. But unfortunately, he had waited too long and the dog's chances of survival were 85 percent. I provided all this information in the past. And look, I can rumble through the past if it makes you happy. But I just want to make this very clear. I did not steal from a disabled veteran or a homeless veteran. The dog was not, it was past the point of rescuing and the money that was raised that was allocuted and distributed to save the lives of other animals.
7:52George Santos:George, I didn't mention animals. I didn't mention a dog. I said you stole from ordinary people. You stole from GoFundMe campaigns. You stole from campaign donations. That makes you a scumbag, doesn't it?
8:05The News Agents:Let me say this again. There was no theft of GoFundMe campaigns. That's what I'm trying to clarify. You can call me a scumbag politically, but the GoFundMe, I will always defend that because that is actually inaccurate. So I would challenge you, Emily, to research that better. Just, again, makes me a scumbag. I've made some pretty scumbag choices and I agree with you on that.
8:26George Santos:OK, well, let us just look at where we are now, because when you were first convicted, sentenced, you were meant to be paying back the money, hundreds of thousands of dollars. You've now had the slate wiped clean. That money doesn't have to be repaid. Will you still repay it?
8:44The News Agents:My attorneys and I, after being posed this question now for the last two days, we hadn't put any thought into it, obviously. I just got out of prison on last Friday at 11.30 p.m. So it hasn't even been a week. There is no vehicle to do so, but we are exploring options. I think it's a valid question. It's a valid point. I am not obligated to, but I am morally and should be morally compelled to do so. And I have the desire to do so because if I don't, it will follow me forever. And when I mean I want a fresh start, I want a fresh start with no pendencies. And I do agree that if we can find a vehicle and a way to do so, because the alternative would be to call the people who would have a claim.
9:25The News Agents:And I'm not sure that they want to hear from me if we're being completely honest. So we need to find a way and we're exploring that. And we'll try to do it in the most legal and above board way possible when I have the means to do so, Emily.
9:39George Santos:What do you mean legal and above board? I mean, you're going to try and pay the money back, right?
9:43The News Agents:Well, when I say legal and above board is we want to make sure that there is a proper way and mechanism to do this and not just nilly willy on the whim. I don't I want to make sure everything is when we come to a conclusion on how we do this, because we don't have the ability in the court. We would have paid back the money to the DOJ and the DOJ would have been responsible for that. We don't have that mechanism available to us. We don't know what the DOJ intended or how to distribute. So we're looking into it, Emily. It's definitely something that we have to look into morally, for sure.
10:18George Santos:George, of the people convicted in America to serve seven years in prison, how many get out after three months?
10:25The News Agents:Well, I'll put it this way. Of the people convicted to go to prison for seven years in America for financial crimes, I don't know the answer to that, but I can say this. There is an unequitable disbursement of justice in my case. And I caution you to look up the Congressman Jesse Jackson from Illinois, who only served 30 months after robbing from his campaign coffers and from the federal government, a total approximately of$900 ,000. thousand dollars sure but 30 months well 30 months and he only served approximately what 70 percent of that i again i'm not here you serve three months out of seven years i'm not no one gets that deal i'm not arguing that and to be honest with you i understand your question it's the power of the president is plenary in the name of clemency and that is a question that you know is to be posed to the president.
11:24The News Agents:A lot of people in America, including Democrats in a bipartisan way, thought my sentencing was politically charged and outrageous. I'm not making excuses for it, but I also sat for 41 days in solitary confinement in a prison under inhumane conditions. The punishment does not make sense. So I understand you guys are going to want to ask. I'm grateful. I'm grateful for the second chance. And so many people have different ways of the way they receive a second chance. I received clemency. It was a surprise to me and I'm grateful for it. And I don't know why I have to defend something that's been granted to me.
12:01George Santos:No, no, no. Look, I thought that the open letter that you wrote that was published was absolute masterful. I thought it was a piece of genius in PR, in appealing to Donald Trump, Mr. President. I'm not asking for sympathy. I'm asking for fairness, for the chance to rebuild. I know I've made mistakes in my past and on it going to go. Sir, I appeal to your sense of justice and humanity, the same qualities that have inspired millions of Americans to believe in you. I mean, you kissed ass and you got your sentence reduced from seven years to three months.
12:36The News Agents:Yeah, I understand. Look, the letter was heartfelt. It wasn't a PR stunt. I was sitting in a shoe cell and special housing unit by myself 24-7 when I wrote that letter. So I can assure you there was no PR stunt and I've been writing the column where it was published for over a year. Sure. So it was just really me documenting and publishing my own thoughts.
12:57George Santos:I salute it as a brilliant piece of work because it obviously played completely to Donald Trump's vanity and his concerns or whatever. And you are now free. But I just think, you know, we had in America last weekend the no kings protest. And here we had Donald Trump behaving as a king. You shall walk free, whereas anyone else incarcerated in the system is not going to get out after three months of a seven year sentence.
13:25The News Agents:I just feel like this is very personal. I guess everybody's just making this very personal for me. And I understand I haven't warranted great sympathy from people. And I understand that that's my own doing. And I've had this conversation with Emily before. But I just I feel like I'm the only person who's been pardoned in history by the way that you're accusing it and making me feel by by essentially I'm carrying. Is President Trump a king because he pardoned me? And what about the countless other people who have been pardoned in the United States in the history, including the former president who pardoned his entire family and to the tune his son, which we all saw?
14:07The News Agents:It's the power of the presidency and the president. The power of clemency is plenary. And I understand I have not been my own best advocate. And I understand that sympathy will not come easy for me because of my own past actions. But I really wish that people would at least give me a fair shake to at their minimum show some sort of change so that you can at least give me a fair shake and assessment in the future based on my actions, not my words. But I understand your frustrations. I understand your concerns, but I remain very grateful to President Trump and his sense of humility and merciful sense of clemency in my case.
14:48The News Agents:And I'm sorry that you're unhappy with it. And we'll hear more from former Congressman George Santos in just a moment.
15:08The News Agents:The News Agents USA.
15:10George Santos:George, back in January, it was on Inauguration Day that we were last together in D.C. And I remember you telling me that you were the first Republican to condemn the January 6th uprising, the riots. Do you ever sort of dwell? I mean, not do ever. You only came out on Friday. This is all very new to you as well. But do you sort of think that you have become sort of one of them, part of this presidential pardon? pardon. And I guess why we're asking about this now, and it's not that it's personal, it's that it's exactly the opposite. It speaks to a moment of American history where the rule of law seems to be kind of carelessly tossed aside, you know, ripped in half, broken up, doesn't really matter anymore that America, this great democracy founded on so much promise, is turning into a sort of a, you know, one man's empire, a monarchy.
16:07The News Agents:I vehemently disagree with that assessment, Emily. I was one of the first Republicans, if not the first, to publicly say that breaking windows and defacing the Capitol at the time was wrong. But I also was the first one to say that the overzealous, insane charges being dished out of D.C. prosecutors on some of these people who were merely on the lawn of the Capitol was absolutely a misuse of justice at the time. Again, two things can be true at the same time. But I'm going to go back to this. And if you pay attention, not every J6-er has been pardoned or commuted because there were some who committed very violent crimes and beat up police officers.
16:49The News Agents:In one case, one young woman stole the laptop of Speaker Pelosi at the time and had intentions, or at least some, if I read correctly, intentions to sell it to the highest bidder or something like that. These people are far more than just mere protesters. But I also want to go back to another issue that you brought up. There is no king in the United States. President Donald Trump is not acting like a king. President Donald Trump is exercising the power that is constitutionally granted to him. And again, would you consider President Joe Biden a king who opened the borders of the United States to approximately 20 million people, ignore the rule of law, completely created decay and financial decay in our economy.
17:32The News Agents:And then on top of that, on his way out, pardon his entire family who have not even been charged of crimes or his son who had a plethora of crimes at the time and had been, went through the process, which by the way, I disagree with the Hunter Biden conviction on the gun cases because I believe in the second amendment. But I'm just giving you a contrast. Why? Where was the outrage then on a man who was so hell bent on exercising the power of his office to the benefit of his own family?
18:01George Santos:George, just to say that, for the record, I think we did express kind of how extraordinary it was that Biden.
18:08The News Agents:But you're saying but you're saying extraordinary. I'm saying wrong. I think it was a thing. I think. No, no, I'm not calling him a king.
18:16George Santos:I tell you the difference. I suppose the difference that seems to be clear now.
18:21The News Agents:Democrat and Donald Trump's a Republican.
Read the full transcript
18:23George Santos:That's the difference. No, no, no, no, no. It is the point that the point that I'm making. I thought that Biden was wrong. Absolutely. You didn't call him a king.
18:30The News Agents:He exercises power to help his family. Because because what I'm because what your action of kings and monarchs because you are seeing above all.
18:38George Santos:OK, but you are now seeing Donald Trump instructing the Justice Department to go after Comey. He's now been indicted. Letitia James. She's been indicted. John Bolton. He's been indicted. And now, you know, there may be wrongdoing there in the process of this, of course. But it looks like Donald Trump wants to punish his enemies, his political critics, and he wants to reward his friends like you.
19:05The News Agents:President Trump, first and foremost, President Trump was viciously attacked. President Trump was viciously attacked and weaponized against by the Biden DOJ. This man's life was thrown into turmoil. And I just want to make sure, because I feel like we're all erasing the last four years and all the insane things. Look at the New York's document case. A very liberal New York City Superior Court, which is the highest court in the state, threw away the case against Donald Trump that was tried by Judge Egron and bought to them by Letitia James. Letitia James said her father was her spouse on a mortgage loan application.
19:44The News Agents:And then on top of that, declared residency in Virginia when she's supposed to be the attorney general of New York. When you look at James Comey, who testified under oath that he did not have any knowledge of leaks, when in fact he did, he testified under oath and he lied. Steve Bannon and Peter Navarro went to prison for four months for contempt of Congress. But it seems like whenever this changes directions of parties, there's outrage. Donald Trump's a king. I'm sorry. Look, I've been in prison. I don't know the details of all these indictments, but it wasn't President Trump. It wasn't really President Trump who's instructing anybody.
20:20The News Agents:That's just really another media talking point. And I would hope you guys would be better than take a sensational approach, especially because I have a great deal of respect for Emily. And I know that you can take the sensational approach. It makes great, fantastic TV. And your ratings are going to be fabulous. And, hey, we all want to get paid and have fabulous ratings. But at the end of the day, I think there should be more balance. I think that we should really look at this because I don't recall hearing anybody say President Biden was a king when he was dishing out all the pardons he did to his family.
20:50The News Agents:And I would like to know, is that not king like behavior, sir?
20:54George Santos:Yeah, I think you have to step back from the things some of the things you've accused Joe Biden of, which was like running a bad immigration system or running a bad economy. I don't think that I don't think that equates with executive overreach of the kind that we are seeing. Well, of course not.
21:12The News Agents:It's dereliction of duty.
21:13George Santos:It's a different thing. I think we can agree with that. I mean, if you want to talk about sensationalizing, I would just say let's let's try and get our criticisms in perspective of what we're saying. Let me ask you something slightly different, George. Could you imagine a world in which you went to work for the president now? Have you had any offers? Do you think the administration would be open to you serving a role within it?
21:34The News Agents:You know, Emily, my goal moving forward is not to get into government. It's really to get into reform. I want to advocate for prison reform. I want to help troubled youth to teach them the values that I've learned the hard way so that they can make better choices and not end up in the predicament that I ended up in. I think I can take my experience and turn it into something positive and good so that I can help people.
21:57George Santos:Will you tell us a little bit about that experience? You talked about it being solitary confinement. 41 days, is that right, in solitary confinement?
22:05The News Agents:Nearly half of my time, I was put in solitary confinement in the special housing unit known as the SHU here in the U.S. under a fake death threat that came in but had to be investigated by the FBI. It was from a formerly discredited source on a previous investigation in 2023 that Capitol Police had looked into, found it to not be credible. Then this person, again, doctoring information, created another threat. And it generated an FBI investigation, despite my best efforts to explain to them. Now, the FBI worked very quickly. However, 41 days in isolation, denied my proper medication that I have been treated with for 22 years, denied actual contact, social contact or being able to speak to my family beyond the 15 minute call once 30 days.
22:58The News Agents:They essentially use disciplinary custody on me and the entire model of disciplinary custody, which is reserved for those who break the law inside of prison, essentially bringing in contraband or getting into fights. And then they just put another bow on it and called it protective custody. I mean, to the great detriment to my mental health in which it was greatly ignored by the warden of the facility. And every single opportunity I tried, she refused to even address my attorney. My attorney tried to speak to this woman and she wouldn't talk to her. So I think that to see the conditions in which I was being given recycled underwear from other inmates that were dirty.
23:36The News Agents:I mean, they would claim it was wash. It was dirty. I wasn't given proper hygiene. I can only bathe three times a week. The linens that they gave me were all full of holes. They were dirty. They had stains. I mean, to the point where the sheets I slept on had what seemed to me like blood stains. And when I complained, they said that's as good as it's going to get. So I think that those are not conditions to house somebody who is not a violent person, who has never, I've never gotten into a fistfight my whole life. I'm a very non-aggressive and physical human being. And to see that they thought that they can do that to somebody with a platform.
24:11The News Agents:Can you only imagine what they do to the countless others who don't have a voice and don't have a platform and the ability to go and write an open letter?
24:18George Santos:And can I ask what it was like when you heard that the sentence had been commuted? Because this came as a surprise. Am I right? This came as a...
24:25The News Agents:Yeah, I saw it through the TV. Nobody knew it was happening. I called home and my husband had spoken to the president already as he called to notify him. And he was absolutely in tears. My entire family, they scrambled. It was very emotional. I'm like, look, I've sinned. I'm a choir boy. I'm not a choir boy. I have sinned greatly. I have had committed terrible transgressions in my life that I am going to have to live with for the rest of my life. But I want to take all of that and the learnings and the teachings and do something good with it. I want people to see that good can come out of horrible situations.
25:05The News Agents:And as we said and discussed earlier, I do want to look and make everything right, not just some of it.
25:11George Santos:I don't want to get on the psychiatrist's couch with you, but when you talk about your sins and your transgressions, do you understand why? Because I look at a man who's really smart, who's come from a great place, who's had a lot of love in his life. I don't understand why somebody with so much ahead of them, you know, professionally, you have brains, you have, I mean, you could have been a really incredibly successful politician or businessman or advocate. I don't know. Why did you choose to do that?
25:48The News Agents:You know, Emily, I've asked and pondered myself that question. And I always come to the conclusion, I was inundated with ambition and ambition generates greed and greed generates a very toxic mental state for a person. And, you know, it's it strays so far away from the teachings I've had at home, I brought I brought great embarrassment to my family. My father, who's 62, didn't deserve to see this or actually experience this in such a public way. A man who's always been so, integrity is an understatement for my father. My mother, who passed nine years ago, would have probably been beside herself in the situation.
26:26The News Agents:This is not, you're correct, this is not who I grew up to be, this is not where I come from, this is not how I was raised, I learned much better, and I chose to make those poor choices, And the only explanation I have for that is really that the ambition of, I guess, it all just consumed me with greed. Has it left permanent scars?
26:45George Santos:I can't imagine what it would have been like to have been in solitary confinement for 24 or 48 hours, let alone 41 days.
26:53The News Agents:It definitely has. I've been back home since 1130. I left 1130 p.m. The facility, I got home at around 130, 140 a.m. And I have to tell you, I still haven't had a decent night's sleep. It's just going to follow me for a while. I already started seeing professionals. And as Emily just said, I already sat on the psychiatrist couch because it's important to take care of your mental health. But most importantly, it's also important to atone that you are the reason you ended up in this situation. I put myself there. So I just have to work hard at it. And like I said, the road ahead, I created the critics in my life.
27:38The News Agents:And I have to accept that I've caused grief, pain and hurt to so many colleagues of mine, people that are even political like-minded. So I have to figure out this. It's going to be a tough journey. And again, I'm sorry. I'm sorry for the chaos I've caused. I'm sorry for the absolute insane death spiral and down spiral and the undoing and unraveling that I had very publicly. I mean, it's just I'm going to have to work really hard on all of this.
28:08George Santos:George Santos, thanks. Thanks for coming on today. Thank you so much for being with us.
28:12The News Agents:Thank you very much for the time and opportunity. Have a great day. You too. You too.
28:25The News Agents:the newsagents usa the government is paying for nothing you probably hear the beautiful sound of construction to the back you hear that sound oh that's music to my ears i love that sound other
28:37George Santos:people don't like it i love it josh i think when i hear that sound it reminds me of money If you're looking for the east wing of the White House, it's not there anymore. The bulldozers have moved in. The entire thing looks like a construction site, a dump, to be frank. He has taken a bulldozer to the White House. Yeah, I mean, a lot of the White House is still intact and it's still very recognisable. But there are parts of the east wing that are being knocked down to create this ballroom that apparently every other president has always wanted. but only Donald J Trump is going to provide you with the ballroom, which will probably be like Mar-a-Lago, which we have both been to, which is a sort of kind of Louis XIV kind of, you know, Palace of Versailles type experience when you go to it.
29:25George Santos:I think Louis XIV would turn in his grave if he thought that Versailles had become Mar-a-Lago. Yeah, well, one the sun king and the other the sunbed king. I've done that crack before, but it's still good. Yeah, exactly. But the thing is that, look, in fairness to Donald Trump, there have been a number of other presidents who've, you know, when we talk about the Truman balcony and, you know, Donald Trump standing out there with Melania Trump and, you know, looking out across to the mall, that was because of changes that were made. when John F Kennedy was president and he had terrible bad back. Someone paid for a swimming pool to be built, an indoor swimming pool to be built in the White House.
30:02George Santos:And actually it sits beneath where the press briefing room is now. So the James S Brady room is just built where the surface of the swimming pool would be. And there's a door that goes down and you can still see the old blue tiles of the original swimming pool. Yeah, this feels very performative, I have to say. And I think it's performative on both sides. I think Trump loves the idea of how much this is upsetting people. And I think there has been a snobbery involved because people look at what Trump's doing and they think of sort of... Vigarity. They do. They think of the casino, the ballroom, the sort of New Jersey, the gambling sites and all the rest of it.
30:40George Santos:So I think a little bit is probably snobbery. But I think at the heart, what he's doing is reminding people in a very visual metaphor what he's actually doing to the country as a whole. which is demolition, right? I mean, careless demolition. That's what it looks and feels like. Well, Donald Trump would say this is rebuilding and making it more. You look at the Oval Office now and the amount of guilt that has suddenly appeared, not with a U, G-I-L-T rather than G-U-I-L-T, that suddenly appeared. And he is changing the face of it. The old Rose Garden, where we used to go for news conferences, when, you know...
31:16George Santos:It's a patio. It's now been concreted over. But there is a very serious point to all this, which is who is paying for this? Trump keeps telling us that it is his own money. Well, it isn't. It is donor money and it is donations raised by big dinners in the White House. In other words, you can see the circularity of something that feels pretty corrupt. And if the money is coming in and paying for the renovations in the White House, then the real question is what is going back? What are they getting in return? What are they getting? Exactly. Yeah, we don't know who the donors are. We don't know how much has been given.
31:56George Santos:But we know that people in America tend not to part with their money unless they're going to get something back in return. And at the moment, we have no idea what that will be. Donald Trump has said that he's raised so much money that there'll be money left over. And what was he going to do with the money left over? Give it to charity. No, he's building the Arc de Tromp. The Arc de Triomphe. Could have gone either way, that, couldn't it? Yeah, he's going to build a kind of Arc de Triomphe style edifice on the other side of the bridge that leads to the Arlington Memorial, a memorial bridge. He wants to build an Arc de Triomphe, which obviously is being called the Arc de Trump.
32:37George Santos:We'll see you next week. Bye-bye. Bye. This has been a Global Player original production.
From the publisher
Former Republican congressman George Santos was jailed for wire fraud and identity theft and began his 7 year sentence in the summer. On Friday, after a mere 87 days, it was commuted - by the president - and Santos walked free.
Today he gives us the first UK interview since his commutation to explain his crimes, his appeal for clemency, and what it tells us about Trump's America in 2025.
Later, what on earth is going on in the east wing of the White House?
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