Is MAGA rupturing over Trump's war in Iran?

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0:33This is a Global Player original podcast. Being a conservative or being a Trump supporter or being part of MAGA does not mean you have to accept another Middle East war without questions. This is Israel's war. This is not the United States' war. This war is not being waged on behalf of American national security objectives to make the United States safer or richer. This war is not actually even about weapons mass destruction, nukes, chem bio. No, this war is waged purely because Israel wanted it. This is absolutely absurd. And it's 100 percent a betrayal to what MAGA was supposed to be when we voted in 2024.

1:20and it's turned into some perverted, deranged version of MAGA now that nobody wants. And a lot of people are just like, this doesn't make sense. This is embarrassing. We are the United States of America. Why are we allowing a foreign country to occupy our government? And now we see we I was removed from a religious liberty commission because I dared to speak out against Israel. It's no longer a conspiracy, Pierce. What Israel wants, Israel gets. And we're witnessing that. And I'm telling you right now, MAGA is dead. Megyn Kelly, Tucker Carlson, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Karine Prisian. These are all MAGA hardliners.

2:03And right now they have an issue with what their own president is doing.

2:08Jason Greenblatt:So forget Europe, forget liberal opinion in America, forget the Democrats, forget the media. is Donald Trump losing control over his own base with the war in Iran. Welcome to the News Agents USA. The News Agents USA with Emily Maitlis and John Sopel. It's John. It's Emily. And yesterday it wasn't just opinion voices that were expressing displeasure at Donald Trump. The head of counterterrorism who worked in the Department of National Intelligence, who Donald Trump had rated very highly when he was appointed to this key role, quit and quit explosively, saying that this war has no justification, that there was no imminent threat and that America had been led into this war by the powerful Israeli lobby in America who had convinced the president to follow him.

3:05Jason Greenblatt:This guy, Joe Kent, has got a past that is anti-Semitic, that is white nationalist, that is, well, you know, Nazi adjacent, he has Panzer tattooed on his arm, which does take some explanation. When Donald Trump heard the news, he played it right down.

3:29Your director of national counterterrorism, Joe Kent, he just resigned today. He said he can't support your conflict with Iran. What's your reaction to that? And did you? Well, I read his Saban. I always thought he was a nice guy, but I always thought he was weak on security, very weak on security.

3:46Jason Greenblatt:I didn't know him well, but I thought he seemed like a pretty nice guy. Yeah, you're always a weak person if you disagree with Donald Trump. Yeah, I mean, Joe Kent may be something of an oddball, as we're now discovering. But the big point is that he's not alone. As you've heard from that montage, there are pretty powerful, pretty influential voices who have always been at Trump's side. And right now they are feeling emboldened to tell him he's wrong with his waging of war with Iran. Well, on today's episode, we're going to do something quite different. We're going right inside the White House with somebody who has worked alongside Donald Trump as his international relations expert and knows him really well, has worked at his side through the Trump organisation itself.

4:39Their friendship, their relationship goes back more than two decades. His name is Jason Greenblatt and he's coming on to try and explain the bits of Trump that have left most of us pretty stumped this week.

4:54Jason Greenblatt:Thank you so much for being with us on the News Agents USA. I wonder whether you could help us make sense, if you like, of what seems to be Donald Trump's real anger towards Britain and other NATO allies over what's unfolding in Iran. Sure. I think to do that, you should go back to the campaign for the first term, right? He was talking about how NATO wasn't paying its fair share. NATO partners made commitments to contribute a certain amount of money. They didn't. Frankly, I was shocked. I couldn't believe he was the first person to actually say that out loud. He spent a lot of time trying to get that money.

5:31This is a variation of that. He believes that he is eliminating a threat not just to the United States, not just to Israel and our Gulf allies and your Gulf allies, but really to the world. When you couple that with the straight and the fact that nobody's stepping up to assist with the straight, I can understand his anger. I'm a little bit surprised that the Europeans don't.

5:52Jason Greenblatt:But Donald Trump kind of started this war with very unclear explanation that people are still saying kind of on the MAGA side of it and liberals are saying it. Why do we have to go to war then that moment? What are the aims of it? And I guess people in the other part of the world saying, well, hang on, this was nothing to do with us. And NATO is a defensive organisation. This was an offensive action that was taken. So let's unpack that into two parts. People are saying that nobody knows why he's going to war. I mean, I think that's the media telling people that we don't know why he's going to war.

6:29He's made no secret about this. He's been talking about Iran not having a nuclear weapon. Again, going back to his first campaign, right? The Iranian regime is a danger to the world having nuclear weapons. He's been telegraphing this prior to this action. He's been saying he wants to resolve this problem with diplomacy. But if it can't be resolved by diplomacy, he's going to take action. He's been telegraphing his intent and his goals for a long time, despite what the media is saying. Not all the media, maybe not you guys. I'm not following you here in the United States. But I think that's a bunch of rubbish.

7:02As far as NATO, you know, is Ukraine the United States problem? You know, he's given some aid. President Biden gave a lot more aid. But when the German chancellor says we didn't start this war or something like that, then don't come knocking on America's door. to help fight European problems. That's his view. I guess there's a difference, isn't there, between having goals and having a strategy. Now, you've pushed back quite hard on those saying there is no strategy. Do you understand the strategy here? Could you explain it to us? Or do you think Trump is keeping it secret? I don't think he's keeping it a secret, but I do very much believe in his approach, which is I'm not going to discuss in public, certainly not with the media, how we're going to prosecute this war.

7:49If he does that, all he does is give Iran, the Iranian regime, the ability to attack back, to stymie his efforts and things like that. He's made clear what his goals are. I think strategy and goals are often intertwined. But if you're speaking about specific strategy, when he intends to attack X, Y, or Z, what he intends to do, I think I'm fully aligned with him that he shouldn't be discussing that strategy openly. It only hurts to undermine his efforts. And all it does is it gives the enemy information. Don't you owe it to the American people, if you're sending sons and daughters into war, to tell them what the cost is?

8:29I mean, at the moment, we're looking at what the Marines somewhere in the Malacca Straits, who might within the next week or so be arriving on Karg Island. are they deployed in combat? Are they troops? Are they there to kill? Will there be more? Will there be 2 ,000? Will there be 5 ,000? I mean, these are pretty rudimentary questions that I think an entire country is able to feel justified and ask if they're commander in chief, right? First of all, our American heroes should always be commended. And we don't know what information those who are deployed actually have. We know the media is saying they have no information, but that doesn't mean their commanding officers don't have information.

9:13Sure, but that's after they're deployed, sir. I mean, if you are waiting to see whether your own son or daughter is called up, don't you think you want to know whether Trump believes in putting troops on the grounds or Marines in the sea? Don't you think you believe to know whether it's going to be two weeks or six months or what the end achievement and the solution will look like to this? I think those are legitimate questions. There may be legitimate questions when you have to weigh them against legitimate safety of the United States and indeed the world. Sometimes you can't get that information.

9:46When these heroes sign up and their families sacrifice a great deal when their heroes sign up, they know what they're signing up for. War is ugly. War causes death. War causes tremendous damage or destruction. But they signed up to protect the United States. I commend them for doing so, but they may not have all the information that they want. That's the reality and the ugliness of war in the military. OK, so you cannot then be surprised when Trump's allies around the world, and it's not just Britain and it's not just Germany and it's not just Belgium and it's not just Poland and it's not just Japan.

10:22I could go on. You know the list of countries that have basically said no. You can't be surprised when people listen to his demands and shrug their shoulders and say, sorry, we don't have a clear idea of what this is about. Why would we risk our own troops? Well, except they do have a clear idea, right? If you ask any one of those people who is saying no, do they want the Iranian regime to have a nuclear weapon? And by the way, these missiles, right, that are being fired at Israel and our Gulf allies, in theory, or eventually could reach the United Kingdom and the rest of Europe. They wouldn't have done under the JCPOA.

10:59I mean, that's where we were before Trump took office the first time. There was a deal in place. It wasn't a long term strategy, but it was a 15 year strategy which contained Iran and allowed for visibility on the nuclear proliferation that was going on. This might be the segment of another show because we could debate this for hours. But you're right. It was a temporary strategy that Iran cheated on, according to most accounts. I've seen things like that. I've seen it reported. I know people disagree, but they cheated. And all it did is it kicked the can down the road. And that's the problem often with politicians.

11:32And Trump is not like those politicians. He doesn't say, sure, let's pretend this problem away for two years, five years, 15 years, whatever it is. We have to fix this problem. And in the meantime, Iran got stronger. Now, you'll argue that they got stronger because Trump ripped up the JCPOA. I don't think that's the case. I think that they were getting stronger. They were building their weapons of war, including missiles, which the JCPOA did not address. And look at all the damage and destruction that's resulted because of this. Not because Trump ripped up the JCPOA. It's because the JCPOA was a bandaid on a cancer.

12:05Jason Greenblatt:OK, so let's move on from the JCPOA and talk about the Strait of Hormuz now. Donald Trump has gone from saying we need your help to we don't need your help to it's just a tin pod army. We've destroyed everything. If you have destroyed as much as you say, why is it that not a single American warship has gone to the strait to escort a tanker of any description through it yet? So I don't have inside information about what the plan is and when they'll do it and if they'll do it. It's obviously extraordinarily complicated. But I do think he was probably waiting to see if our friends and allies who constantly ask the United States for help are willing to help.

12:48Now he knows they're not willing to help. I assume he's going to take the next step and do what he needs to do. But don't be surprised if what he does only benefits the United States and our Middle Eastern allies and doesn't benefit the United Kingdom or the rest of Europe who are scoffing at his requests. What does that mean? I don't have the details. I'm not a military person. I'm not privy to the information. But I think in prosecuting the war, he is going to focus on things that matter to America, that matter to the Middle East, which also matters to America. And I don't think he's going to take European interest into account because Europe is not interested in helping the United States figure this out.

13:26Jason Greenblatt:But do you worry that you've got Gulf allies that are getting hit who kind of put all their eggs in the basket of the United States of America? America would protect us. And they're feeling pretty unprotected right now, given that America has started this war. and I think seems to have miscalculated that, you know, the Iranian regime would just fall over once you took away the leaders. And yet the regime seems to be, brutal regime as it is, stubbornly in place. Well, you can't topple a regime like this in three weeks, right? These guys have been in place for decades. The United States and Israel have done a remarkable job.

14:07But to your question about our Gulf allies, maybe they didn't want this war to start, but they know well who the enemy is. They know well what the Iranian regime is capable of. They know well what the Iranian regime has built. I would argue the opposite of what you're saying. The United States has come to the defense of the Gulf and Israel tremendously. And guess what? Most of Europe, including the United Kingdom, has abandoned the Gulf. You know, you take their money, they buy up real estate, they drive up prices in your countries, they support your countries, they invest in your countries. And where are you guys for the Gulf?

14:37You guys are sitting nowhere you're sitting with you're sitting on your hands and not helping them can you can you have victory if the strait of hormuz is still shut no but i don't think that's going to be the way it goes i think president trump is going to figure out let me just finish and you could ask i think president trump will figure out a way to reopen that strait and deal with it but these are not answers that could be uh given in 24 hours right these are constantly changing thing you're paying 10 dimensions you're playing a game of 10 15 dimensional chess and we have to be a little bit patient sure i i understand that totally but you know you read all all the analysis of they've

15:17Jason Greenblatt:got you know these styrofoam drones that travel at 25 miles an hour that look like they're a bird flying in the sky and can hit targets you've got them they're sea mines that can be deployed from a fishing boat or a skiff or you know whatever in it that it's so easy to block that actually if you're going to stop them it will require marines on the ground in a you know it's not from 36 000 feet it will be a ground level shooting match do you think american public opinion is ready for that given what donald trump said about no more forever wars no more getting involved in foreign entanglements that aren't any of our business?

15:56Well, let me start with the end of your questions and move backwards, right? Who says this is a forever war? The media? We're three weeks into the war. Why are people calling it a forever war? Nobody has the right to say that because it's impossible to say that now. Ask me in six months from now or 12 months from now or two years from now if it's a forever war. As far as entanglements that don't affect the United States, this absolutely affects the United States. He's not trying to defend something that has nothing to do with the United States. This is critical for the United States, our allies in the Middle East, as well as the world.

16:28And as far as the styrofoam drones and things like that, look, it's a fair question. But to me, it's a binary question. Do we just look the other way and pretend that this threat doesn't exist and let them grow deeper and deeper into creating even more styrofoam drones or anything else that they could do to prosecute this war? Do we finally try to tackle it? Will it be easy? No, absolutely not. But to do anything, you know, to sort of throw up our hands and say, wow, this is an impossible task because it's so cheap to create drones. Do we just want to sit here and take it?

16:58Jason Greenblatt:But the question, I suppose, in my long rambling question, there was a bit about ground troops engaged in, you know, kind of hand-to-hand combat, almost, with an Iranian enemy. Do you think American public opinion is ready for what the consequences of that might be? As of now, I have not heard President Trump saying he's sending troops in on the ground. Can we win the war without troops on the ground? I don't know. I'm not a military expert. Will he have to send special units in to take out the remnants of the nuclear material they still have and things like that? Possibly. But he's not committed to put troops on the ground at the moment.

17:32Can I go back, Jason, something you said a moment ago? There was your interpretation of, I guess, a quiet threat if Trump isn't helped by Europe and others. You said that America would no longer work in European interests, taking European interests into account. Would you still call us allies if that's the case? Allies help each other. Do you still think that we are allies if America doesn't help Europe and if Europe doesn't go to America's aid? Well, I certainly think you're allies, but are you helpful allies, right? When you rang our doorbell. Is there any other kind? Well, when you rang our doorbell to help with Ukraine, did you get help?

18:18Of course you did. now that President Trump is asking you for help, have you said yes? No, you've said no. Are you allies? I mean, really, I could flip the question right back at you. The Ukraine question is absolutely fundamental to this, isn't it? Because, of course, President Trump came in saying he was going to end the Russian invasion, the Ukraine war on day one. We are a lot further on from that, a year or more on from that. And actually, what we've seen is him bending towards Putin, trying to make it easier for Russian oil to get through by lowering the sanctions, taking off the sanctions.

18:51Zelensky is pulling his hair out saying, I don't understand. If he was going to end a war, why has he forgotten us and started another and made Putin's economic life so much easier? I mean, that's how we see America's position vis-a-vis Ukraine right now. Yeah, look, it's unfortunately wrapped, one is wrapped into the other, right? He did think he end the war quickly. I think that unfortunately, that didn't happen. He recognizes that Putin is also a nuclear power. That's an incredible danger to America. That's an incredible danger to Europe and the world. That's something that has to be taken into account.

19:25So I'm sure while he desires to help Ukraine and certainly thinks that Europe should bear the brunt of helping Ukraine, Ukraine is now secondary compared to what's going on. I mean, it was always like that, wasn't it? In the sense that he never showed any backbone when it came to Putin. He never, he never told Putin that he should get out of that war. He never actually showed anything that looked like strength, American power in the face of Russian dominance. Are you suggesting that he should have threatened Russia and attacked Russia the way we're attacking the Iranian regime? No, I'm not saying.

20:06No, he said he was going to end a war. And what did he do? He shouted down Zelensky. He embarrassed Zelensky, called Zelensky the dictator. And where are we now? Putin's getting his oil for free. So you're combining two things, a meeting in the Oval Office that happened a while ago, which I'm happy to address, and the oil today, which is as a result of the Iranian, the war on the Iranian regime. When President Zelensky went into the Oval office. That meeting started beautifully. Most of the meeting went beautifully until President Zelensky lectured President Trump and told him not to forget that there's only an ocean between us and that America could be attacked too.

20:44With all the help that President Trump gave to Ukraine, the president of Ukraine should not have lectured President Trump. That's when the meeting turned bad. Whoever prepared President Zelensky for that meeting did a terrible, terrible job. But that doesn't mean that he doesn't have sympathy for the Ukrainian people and would want to stop the war. At the end of the day, Russia is an incredibly powerful country. It's not something that he can just change and wave a magic wand about.

21:09Jason Greenblatt:Jason, I loved your doorbell analogy, that when the doorbell rang at the White House, Donald Trump came to help. They're not parallels, because what happened was that Russia invaded a sovereign UN territory. What's happened in Iran is that America and Israel have tried to overthrow a regime. It's not like kind of, you know, two offensive actions and Europe decides not to get involved in one but does in the other. There were completely different issues at stake there. Right. But the fundamental question is, and I see this in the media a lot, does Iran, did the Iranian regime pose an imminent threat?

21:50Right. Do you wait?

21:51Jason Greenblatt:Caroline Levitt initially said they pose absolutely no threat to the United States of America. Yeah. I haven't seen that clip. And if she did say that, I don't know why she said that. Maybe she's certainly privy to intelligence and things that I have no knowledge about. But do you wait until the muzzle of the gun is literally in your face? Or do you recognize that the muzzle of the gun is aimed at you? Think about the Gulf states, right? These missiles were prepared long ago by the Iranian regime, and they were intended to do exactly what they're doing eventually. Not because the United States and Israel attack them.

22:27It's because the Iranian regime intended to take over the Gulf eventually. They're a religiously theocratic regime, bloodthirsty. And what President Trump did and Israel did is try to prevent that from happening. Will they be successful? We'll see how it goes. But we can't put our heads in the sand and pretend that these threats didn't exist. And stay with us as we consider the reaction to the war within