"Trump's worst nightmare": Mamdani wins New York

0:01Abigail Spanberger:This is a Global Player original podcast. So Donald Trump, since I know you're watching, I have four words for you.

0:14Zohran Mamdani:Turn the volume up.

0:18Gavin Newsom:A victorious Zohran Mamdani, who has just won by more than 50 percent share of the vote in New York. he will be sworn in as the first Muslim mayor in January. And he's just 34 years old.

0:34Abigail Spanberger:And in reply, Donald Trump said, and so it begins. It is going to be an extraordinary battle. Old, young, right versus left. Has Zoram Bhamdani taught the Democrats how to win again? Welcome to the News Agents USA. The News Agents USA with Emily Maitlis and John Sopel. It's John.

1:01Gavin Newsom:It's Emily. And the big one, the big talking point of today's episode will, of course, be that Mamdani win in New York. But I do want to talk, first of all, about the other successes that the Democrats have seen. And I think there's always a risk that on election night you start sort of leaning into something that feels like a political earthquake, when actually if you step back, you say there are a lot of places where the Democrats were probably always going to have a pretty decent chance of victory. But something has happened when you look overnight at success for the Democrats in Virginia, where they've got their first female governor, success for the Democrats in New Jersey, which many people will think of as being a Democrat-leaning state, but this was actually a pretty tight bellwether race itself.

1:50Gavin Newsom:For success for the Democrats in the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania, where there were three more gains there. And critically, actually, something that we will talk about a little bit later, which is success for Gavin Newsom's Democrats in California with his Proposition 50. All that is to come. But let us first start with the race in New York and what it tells us or what it is in danger of making us think.

2:18Abigail Spanberger:Yeah. And look, it was absolutely sweeping gains for the Democrats last night. And to put this in a context, it was a year ago that America had gone to the polls and voted for Donald Trump. And for the past year, people have been saying, I'm trying to find a pulse in the Democratic body, but I can't actually find a pulse. I think it's clinically dead. well now we hear its heart is thumping and it's about how much we read into that success that the democrats have had that i think we're going to try and sort of kind of look into look it's always the case that in off years donald trump's name wasn't on the ballot you know the opposition party tends to do better the governing party has a record to defend people are a bit pissed off that they haven't seen the gains that they wanted.

3:06Abigail Spanberger:But more than that, these swings to the Democrats were bigger. And of course, as you say, Zoran Mamdani, socialist, Muslim, 34 years old, you know, all these kind of unique features, incredibly charismatic, has won. And does that mean the Democratic Party has to go left? Or is it about personality? Or is it about generation? And these are the things that I think we're going to spend a bit of time unpacking.

3:29Gavin Newsom:Yeah. And I guess it's easy, you know, to take away your headline as saying, oh, the Dems have got to go left. They've got to go socialist. They've got to go progressive. They haven't had this kind of energy before. That's what it means. I would put the reins on that thought slightly. And what do I mean by that? A, Mamdani did incredibly well. It was incredibly charismatic the way he ran that race. And he got turn up out astonishingly. I mean, there's one statistic which I think is worth looking at. Two million people came out to vote in New York. Andrew Cuomo, who was the former governor of New York, the disgraced sort of former Democrat.

4:06Gavin Newsom:He was the former governor of New York State. State, exactly. And this was for the city, yeah. So he actually got nearly 900 ,000 votes, which in any other race would have been enough to win him the mayoralty of New York City. This time round, so many more people came out, in other words, energised by what they saw as a sort of brand new feel to this race that Mamdani won and won very comfortably. But what I would say is if you look at some of the other races that we just started to talk about, Abigail Spamberger, who is the Virginia governor elect, comes from a totally different wing of the party.

4:45Gavin Newsom:She's what they call a sort of security mom. In other words, she appeals to suburban Republican women. She's former CIA. She's a former CIA officer in Virginia. And she has a very different approach, I think, to politics. It feels slightly quieter, more consensual. She's very good at reaching across the aisle. She isn't sort of scary socialism or whatever people think of as, you know, scary socialism. She's something that feels much more aligned with many Republican voices as well. She won astonishingly in Virginia. She was winning counties like Chester County, which Glenn Youngkin won as the governor four years ago.

5:27Gavin Newsom:He won them by 5 percent. She won it by 17 percent. In other words, the kind of gains that she has made throughout Virginia have put the Democrats into a whole new space. And importantly, she's winning amongst non-whites, non-college educated by 87 percent. In other words, that whole trend of people that we saw going to Trump this time last year. What happened to them? Young black men. Did they go towards her in Virginia? Did they just stay at home? Do they think, well, if Trump's not on the ballot, it's not worth it. He's he's the name that I go out to vote for or not at all. And obviously these are very, very different areas.

6:08Gavin Newsom:You know, Virginia is not New York. New Jersey is not Virginia. And you have to sort of put it in the context of these are individual sort of empires and individual countries. That's really important. But all I'm trying to say is it doesn't necessarily mean that the Democrats should all be thinking socialism is the way forward now. What it does mean is that energy is the way forward. Charisma is the way forward. Bravery actually is the way forward.

6:34Abigail Spanberger:So I think there are two other things I would add to that. I agree with that completely. There are two other things that I think really came out of last night. One, generational. The Democrats, I remember four or five years ago, sitting in a restaurant in Washington, D.C., and there was a Democrat senator, Dianne Feinstein, late Dianne Feinstein, who was in her late 80s. She had a dog on her lap. She was still in the Senate, one of 100 senators, and she was not there. I mean, honestly, she was not there. was but she was the dog was she wasn't you've got you know joe biden who wouldn't leave the race and had to be forced out you've got chuck schumer still the senate minority leader there are still all these old septuagenarian octogenarian nonagenarian politicians whose time has been and gone and i think that the generational shift that the democratic party needs to go through now is profound because there are an awful lot of old codgers in politics who need to be put out to pasture that's the first thing that i think we learned from last night the other thing and this is not so much about socialism but it is about policy in some ways what zoram mandani tapped into and i think other democrats can do it even whether they're on the left on the right is affordability can you afford to live right now in america and that the concerns that these young people have, you know, generation rent or whatever it happens to be are real.

7:58Abigail Spanberger:And so when you see Mamdani, now look, whether he'll be able to deliver on the free buses and childcare and, you know, subsidised kind of grocery stores, who knows? We'll see what he's able to pull off. But it absolutely chimed with a section of the poor electorate who feel that the Democratic Party has not spoken enough about those issues in the past. And actually, he tapped into that and you can be on the left or the right of the Democratic Party and still do the same.

8:26Gavin Newsom:And he appealed to the mixed nature of New York. That was absolutely fundamental to the speech he made. Let's just play you this clip.

8:34Zohran Mamdani:New York will remain a city of immigrants, a city built by immigrants,

8:41Abigail Spanberger:powered by immigrants, and as of tonight, led by an immigrant.

8:50Gavin Newsom:That is a city where you will hear Muslim voices saying we have carried the scars of 9-11 accusation on our shoulders for decades. You know, after 9-11, obviously destroyed by Islamist terrorists. There have been many Muslims who felt we're not welcome here. We're not part of this set up. And some, you know, to the point where some have left, some have thought this is not this is not an easy place to live. and it is almost like Mamdani has brought it full circle. Now, I should also say in the same breath that there are going to be Jewish New Yorkers, I mean, many of whom did vote for Mamdani, but there will be other Jewish New Yorkers who feel nervous about what he's offering, the prospect of him, not because he's Muslim, but because he hasn't properly shut down certain things that have sort of pursued him, this idea of global intifada, not his phrase, somebody else's, but he hasn't distanced himself.

9:47Gavin Newsom:I think there was a moment where the release of the hostages was not recognised by him. And that was something that people felt, well, actually, you know, it might be Trump's work, but it is an amazing day. You should be going out. You should be saying that. And there is a moment in that same speech where Mamdani speaks to the Jews of New York, or at least to all those who fear anti-Semitism as resurgent in New York. And he makes very clear that he wants to bring all those sides together.

10:16Zohran Mamdani:And we will build a city hall that stands steadfast alongside Jewish New Yorkers and does not waver in the fight against the scourge of anti-Semitism.

10:28Gavin Newsom:I think for some genuinely, the verdict will be slightly out on how comfortable they feel, not about his Muslim religion, but about his identity vis-a-vis Israel and what happens next.

10:41Abigail Spanberger:Yeah, I think that's a very real concern in a city that has a very high Jewish population. And the traditional politics of the United States has been to be incredibly pro-Israel. And he is an important signifier of the shift in attitudes towards Israel that you can now see. And it's tearing the MAGA base apart as well. So it's not just confined to liberal New York. on the MAGA kind of right, it's a very live issue too. I thought that what he's done though, and I'm going to use the word deliberately, he's brought back hope. And that word hope... Oh, where did you get that one from? Exactly. And that word hope is associated with Obama.

11:24Abigail Spanberger:And it was, you know, not in policy terms necessarily, but in just in charisma, in energy, in that ability to kind of put a thousand watts into the room and just light it up brightly, Zoramandani has kind of, he has floodlit the political scene with this kind of raw energy, enthusiasm, charisma, oratorical brilliance that we last saw with Obama.

11:52Gavin Newsom:In a moment, we'll bring you more from Zoramandani and all the other races the Democrats fought last night.

12:11Zohran Mamdani:The News Agents USA.

12:13Gavin Newsom:OK, and if we're going all in on hope, I'm going to bring in audacity. Because why not? And I do think actually that's an important part of the recipe that the Dems have found this time round, which is say what you mean and do what you say. And I mentioned at the very beginning of this episode, Gavin Newsom with this Proposition 50. Now, this will take a moment to explain. And for those of you who kind of find the whole jargon slightly disorientating, but it was something we began discussing back in the summer in August. And it was after Trump began redistricting congressional seats in Texas in order to give the Republicans more chances of winning and retaining the House next time round.

12:55Gavin Newsom:And he basically gerrymandered certain seats to make it much more easy for Republicans to win. And the response from many Democrats was, this is outrageous. We must stop it. We must undo it. And the response from Gavin Newsom in California was, well, if you're doing that, then I'm going to do that. And he didn't change the seats. He didn't change the congressional districts. But he put on the map the idea that if Texas went ahead, if Trump went ahead, he would offer California the same response. And it was an overwhelming win last night. In fact, once the polls closed, I think the result in favour of Prop 50 came through within a minute.

13:35Gavin Newsom:In other words, there were cues around the block of Californians saying, yes, please. Now, that was a gamble from Newsom. That's why I use the word audacious. I mean, obviously part of the Obama set up, but it was a gamble because people could have turned to him and said, oh, really, you're going to go dirty? Do you really want to do dirty politics? Are you becoming a new Trump? I actually thought that back in the summer and I was proved wrong. And I think it finally puts to bed the Michelle Obama beautifully optimistic but slightly old fashioned idea of 2016, which was when they go low, we go high.

14:08No, doesn't work.

14:10Gavin Newsom:Gavin Newsom has in his own way said when they go low, we find a way to beat them at their own game. And that's what he's doing. And I think he's just put himself in poll position now to be a very possible Democratic nominee for president. And I say that because what happened last year with the sort of endorsement, the coronation of Kamala, was that the Democrats were essentially denied the primary. There was no sense of asking the party through all the Biden years and after who they wanted as their Democrat at the top of the ticket. We didn't have that. We didn't we didn't get to see Kamala versus Newsom versus Gretchen Whitmer versus, you know, a Mamdani like figure versus AOC.

14:55Gavin Newsom:And I think all these races are showing us that Democrats are finally having their choice of what what the people look like that they can imagine representing them at the top of the ticket.

15:06Abigail Spanberger:Yeah, I'm sure people listening will kind of still wonder about what this redistricting looks like. I mean, if you've got a city which has got, you know, say a high black population and instead of those votes being split among, I don't know, five different constituencies where you might get a Democrat, you create one black super constituency, which will be kind of 85 percent Democrat. But all the suburban seats then are white and they will remain Republican. And so in Texas, what you've got Greg Abbott trying to do is to create a situation where he carves out an additional eight or nine Republican seats that will, you know, when the House of Representatives is up for election next year, will go Republican.

15:49Abigail Spanberger:And Gavin Newsom is doing the same. It is exactly when they go low, we go low. But what is maybe even lower?

15:56Gavin Newsom:Yeah. But what he's done, actually, is on the back of that victory, he's now laid down a challenge for other states to do the same. He's called on Colorado, Illinois, Maryland, other Democratic-led states to follow him. In other words, yes, it's a pattern when Trump does it, but it can be a pattern of response. And I think that's what you're seeing now. I mean, it's funny, it's kind of a hairs on the back of the neck moment a little bit, because we've all wondered, as you said right at the beginning, where does the fight back start? What is the fight? What does it look like? What shape does it take?

16:28Gavin Newsom:This is the fight back now. This is Newsom saying this is the plan. This is the proposition. This is what you have to do. You cannot just sit there whilst your states are gerrymandered, whilst your seats are stolen, whilst your elections are rigged. This is what it means to take back that fight. And it's not just about California. And it's not just about, I think, his presidential ambitions in two years time, three years time. it's also about a blueprint for other democratic states to work out how to deal with trump how to

17:01Abigail Spanberger:deal with an undemocratic system i and there's a part of it that leaves me feeling deeply uncomfortable that what you're doing with is screwing with the machinery of democracy it's been screwed with i know i know it has but this is a sort of it's so low and where do where does it end that if you can endlessly you move to the place where you want to vote i mean you know You know, people have said, oh, will Trump, you know, cancel the midterm elections? Now, of course, he won't cancel the midterm elections. People who are good at this sort of shit don't need to cancel the elections. They make sure they're going to win them.

17:30Abigail Spanberger:And the gerrymandering is part of that. And then you get gerrymandering on the other side, you know, in California or Illinois or Maryland or wherever you say that they're being asked to consider this stuff. And you think, is this the way forward? Because ultimately, you'll end up with one really powerful person who completely wrecks the whole machinery of it. And I think Donald Trump has come close to that. But it's not a great. I mean, I think, you know, you'd love the idea that it's the elections will be won on the power of ideas, whether Zoram Maldani's or someone else's and not because you fiddled the seats.

18:02Gavin Newsom:Maybe that's where the Obama comparisons end, because he did, you know, he did hope and change and the son of immigrants and the reunification of America from a place of optimism. I think a lot of these guys are doing it from a place of absolute desperation.

18:16Abigail Spanberger:Yes. And no more blue states, no more red states, just the United States. No, America is blue states and red states. And we're going to fight like hell within those states. That's the that's the change that there is from the kind of optimism and idealism of the Obama period to today. I also think just worth dwelling on, you know, we've talked about the Democrats' successes, what we should glean from it. I think we also ought to talk about the Republican Party, which, yes, Donald Trump and Donald Trump was very fast, as you would expect, to put out on Truth Social. The explanation for all of this is my name wasn't on the ballot.