Why Trump's own party has killed his J6 slush fund

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0:32Jon Sopel:The News Agents USA with Emily Maitlis and John Sopel. There is a feeling that he is losing his touch politically and that he is starting to be a drag anchor on Republican ambitions. Is it dead or is it just partly dead? I just need to feel like it's dropped and done. I think that is a metaphor for Trump himself. We've told you a lot about the sort of force of Trump when he does back a primary candidate. But this time it didn't go so well. Look, we're not moving forward with the fund. You're right that there's a date that in the case in the East District of Virginia in June. But we are not moving forward with the fund, period.

1:13Jon Sopel:The reasons for the fund is something that President Trump talked about for a long time, which is the fact that there were a lot of people in this country who had their government weaponized against them. the reasons for the fund I think were were it remain as important as they were before but we are not moving forward with the fund not moving forward ever correct oh there's no more fund then well to the extent there was a fund remember the fund wasn't set up yet there were no commissioner's name there was no that is about as simple as Todd Blanche could make his answer The acting attorney general has just cancelled the slush fund, the$1.8 billion fund that many Democrats thought was earmarked for the Jan 6th rioters who could claim victimhood.

2:06Jon Sopel:And this represents a stunning U-turn by the Trump administration. And Donald Trump will absolutely hate having to do that. But is the Republican Party now, finally, after 10 years, finding a backbone to stand up against him? Welcome to the News Agents USA. The News Agents USA with Emily Maitlis and John Sopel. It's John. It's Maitlis. And what we had the other week was this extraordinary settlement that took place where Donald Trump had sued his own government and won, surprisingly, when all the government is there to do is to serve Donald Trump. And so he sued his own government, won over the release of his tax returns and said, I am going to set up this anti-weaponisation fund for the victims of the Justice Department when Joe Biden was president.

3:04Jon Sopel:Now, it was actually court cases that were brought before a jury. People were convicted of the January the 6th riots. But in Donald Trump's mind, they were the victims. And the reaction of the Republican Party and Republican congressmen and women and senators who had to hide and run for their lives on January the 6th was, hang on, you cannot be doing this. A time when people have got struggling with their bills. Are we really going to be doling out money to people who smashed up the Congress and attacked police officers on January the 6th? And so the backlash was fierce and extraordinary because Donald Trump doesn't normally get a backlash.

3:49Jon Sopel:I mean, people whine quietly and whimper quietly, but they never actually make it clear. And this time they have. It's been so interesting, the response. This has been the Rubicon, right, that Republicans would not cross. I think this fund created an uproar, one because of the way, to be frank, the Democrats critics turned this around or showed it for what it was. You know, they called it the slush fund for cop killers. And the trouble was that Todd Blanche, the acting attorney general, and the administration couldn't deny that this money wouldn't be paid out to those people who had ransacked Congress.

4:30In fact, they never really tried to say that the money wouldn't go there. And it created absolute uproar. There are too many Republicans who said, we will sink a completely unrelated immigration enforcement bill if that is part of it. It had become attached to an immigration bill, which is obviously sort of key, central to Trump's work, to Mike Johnson's work in Congress. and Republicans had said, if that is part of it, we're not going to be part of that. We're not going to sign it off. It had also gone, we should say, through two court judgments, one in Virginia last week, which had said this can't go ahead.

5:12So they paused it. They put a temporary pause on to kind of have a look at where the payouts would go and one that just came within the last couple of days. And so the courts were against it. Republican senators were against it. And I think it's a sign of how precarious, frankly, Mike Johnson, Speaker of the House, is currently feeling. They could be about to lose Congress in the next five months. And what you're hearing now is people waking up to the very possible chance that this is going to be a new reality and they don't want to upset the voters.

5:54Jon Sopel:What's so interesting is I think that Trump in the first term, you know, look, there was noise and there was chaos and there was the clattering of cymbals and the banging of drums. But he had an unbelievable political touch and finesse and kind of sense of where the public mood was and just about kind of got it right. And his campaign to win re-election in 24 was brilliant in an awful lot of ways, focusing on economy, focusing on immigration, focusing on DEI, which turned out to be a very effective strategy. but since then you know so for example the courts also last week ruled that the donald j trump john f kennedy center for the performing arts is just going to remain the john f kennedy center for the performing arts and it was illegal what donald trump had done uh saying it would become the trump kennedy uh center and so that's another setback i mean to be fair there are plenty of other vanity projects which will have trump's name on not least a 250 foot arch uh they call it the arc to trump trump triumph trump whatever uh the ballroom clearly that he's still pressing ahead with um the birthday party his 80th birthday party which has somehow got entangled in the 250th anniversary celebrations for america which he now thinks are principally about him so there are plenty of other vanity projects which will probably take on where the kennedy center leaves off sure But I think these are the areas where Trump is overextending.

7:18Jon Sopel:I mean, Scott Besson, the Treasury Secretary, coming to the White House briefing room and explaining why there needed to be a$250 bill to commemorate the 250th anniversary with guess whose face on it. You've got it. Well, let's hear from Scott Besson. Do you think it's a good idea that when people are struggling to afford gas and groceries? Look, I think it has. I think that it's bifurcated. that do you think we should have a 250th anniversary, the celebration? Well, that's happening anyway. But putting the president's face on a$1 bill is a choice. It is an extraordinary vision, this. Marco Rubio was last week, Scott Bessinger's this week.

7:56While Caroline Levitt, who's the normal White House spokesperson, is off on parental leave, maternity leave, they're all kind of being auditioned for her role. And I think it's Trump's way of kind of going, well, let's put you in front of the camera and see who, you know, who sort of sinks or swims. So that's Scott Besson trying to explain why a dollar bill with Trump's face on it is a really good idea. Just to go back to this slush fund, it reminds me of that bit in The Wizard of Oz, where the house has fallen on the witch and they've just got her sort of stocking sticking out underneath. And it feels like all the Republicans are going around kind of prodding it going, is it really dead or a bit dead?

8:33Is it definitely dead? And so you've got John Curtis, who is the Utah Republican senator, saying, is it dead or is it just partly dead? I just need to feel like it's dropped and done.

8:48Jon Sopel:I think that is a metaphor for Trump himself. I think there is a feeling that, you know, despite obviously the impeccable health record that he got and, you know, the full marks he got from his position, there is a feeling that he is losing his touch politically and that he is starting to be a drag anchor on Republican ambitions for the House and for the Senate in the midterms. Yeah, I mean, I think it's simpler than that. I think his political touch is about himself and his legacy. And the people in the Senate and in Congress are still dependent on the votes of the people in the midterms to hold them in their jobs.

9:28Right. It's as simple as that, that Trump doesn't seem to be that engaged with the midterms. I mean, yes, he chooses his candidates. He tries to endorse the people he likes for the primaries. He had an upset, funnily enough, in Iowa overnight when the person that he had been backing didn't make it. I mean, we've told you a lot about the sort of force of Trump when he does back a primary candidate. This time it didn't go so well. But I think that the Republican Party as a whole is starting to sort of say, well, we might have to do this on our own, guys, because he's not really fighting this one for us in any useful sense.

10:02He's not invincible.

10:04Jon Sopel:He's not invincible. And the Democrats have had quite a good run of the tables last night in some of the primaries that took place and are feeling pretty chipper about the midterms. And they now think, for example, that Iowa, the Senate seat could be in play for the first time since Barack Obama was president. There are problems, though, as well, which we ought to talk about. There's one really interesting Senate race that is taking place in Maine. Now, you may know that Maine has got a Republican senator, Susan Collins, who has been in the job about three decades because she has mastered how to be an elected Republican in what is principally a democratic state.

10:52A liberal state. I mean, a state that pretty much leans blue, but has tolerated or enjoyed her because she has sort of navigated her path through it. A little bit like Joe Manchin used to do in a red state for the Democrats. This time round, the Democrats have put up a pretty extraordinary candidate, a guy called Graham Plattner. He is an oyster catcher. He is somebody who comes with, I think it's fair to say, a lot of real life experience, but an awful lot of political baggage. Because a little bit like the reform candidate in Makerfield, he's a man who says, well, I wasn't thinking of being a politician.

11:36I didn't sort of play out my life as if I was always going to stand for the Senate. So, yes, you will find things that I've written or said or thought spoken out loud. And for some Democrats, they're going through his social media feeds and they're finding things he said about women, things he said about ethnic minorities, things he said about gay people and going, this is repellent. This is absolutely intolerable. And for others, they're saying, would I have liked, you know, a liberal feminist in this seat? Yes. Will I still vote Democrat because he's the best that we've got and it's our chance to flip the Senate?

12:21Yes. And so I think the Democrats are really, they're having a sort of moral tug of war in the party at the moment about whether they really want to see this guy elected and what it might cost.

12:32Jon Sopel:And there are fabulous cross currents as well, because actually he positions himself now as kind of on the very progressive wing of the Democratic Party. So allied to Bernie Sanders. Bernie Sanders has backed him. Bernie Sanders is saying, why wouldn't I still back him? Well, maybe because you've kind of spoken out about LGBTQ rights and you've spoken out about black people don't tip in restaurants. He said victims of sexual assault should take some responsibility for themselves and not get so fucked up. Yeah. And he also claimed that he was a communist and he labelled white rural Americans as stupid and racist and called police officers bastards.

13:09Jon Sopel:So realistically, not that helpful, not that helpful and quite a bit of baggage. And you can see why in politics, you know, if you're Donald Trump and you've got that baggage, it seems to be fine. he gets away with it for whatever reasons because he's an outsider because he's come at this for as being a you know tv reality star and a property tycoon or whatever it happens to be because people knew him i guess before he tried to go i think in conventional politics there are still certain rules that apply and this guy platner is a really difficult sell for the democratic party right now if they're going to you know maintain that their hold on maine i also think it's part of this whole like existential reckoning that the Democratic Party is having.

13:55You know, everyone's saying you sound too formal, you sound too elitist, you're no longer speaking to working people, you're only speaking to the rich, you're only speaking to the coastal elites. And this has sort of dogged the Democratic Party in the last 10 years or so, I guess, since Trump came on the stage. And so I think part of the party is saying, well, how do we sound different? Or how do we appeal to normal people? Or how do we go back to something that is more in tune with, you know, working class people or working class roots or whatever? And so they've landed on this guy who sort of seems to be manna from heaven until you look at the social media feeds.

14:31You know, he seems to do everything that Maine would want. He's connected to the sea. He's got a real job. He hasn't just worked for sort of, you know, a think tank and a hedge fund for the last 20 years. He's somebody who feels like he could represent Maine if you don't look too deeply at what he's actually said. And I guess that is part of the big, you know, the bigger battle that the Democrats are having in themselves is to, you know, the Republicans have managed to turn a blind eye to everything that Trump has done. And what does it take? It takes a sort of a jelly like spinelessness and an absolute dedication to the cult of Trump.

15:10you know loyalty first the democrats are still sort of trying to have you know a moral high ground and play by the rules and think about you know whether this is actually the sort of person they want representing the party and so i think it is it's really making people nervous because if he wins is that a blueprint and if he loses have they just fucked it all up again

15:32Jon Sopel:one other race i think is worth talking about um and that is what's happening in california for the governorship of California. You know, I suspect an awful lot of people who listen to this are probably based in Britain. And you may have seen the TV show The Thick of It, which depicted someone who was very akin to David Cameron's advisor back in the day, who didn't wear any shoes, who wandered around Downing Street in, you know, in T-shirts and kind of being hippie-ish and all the rest of it. That person was based on Steve Hilton, who was David Cameron's advisor. And Steve Hilton now, having moved to California a few years ago when his wife got a big job with one of the tech companies, is now running as a Republican, a Trumpy Republican and has Donald Trump's backing and looks like he's going to be the Republican candidate for the governorship of California.

16:26Again, the Democrats have done themselves no favours in this race because they have essentially managed to split the vote sort of three ways, three different candidates, none of which really has sort of grabbed California's imagination enough. Tom Steyer, who is the Democrat, who is sort of the anti-billionaire candidate. Who is a billionaire. He's a billionaire. He's done a lot of great sort of fundraising of billions. But he's sort of playing to the left of the party. Javier Becerra, who used to be in Obama's administration, very much of the sort of, you know, the sort of mainstream Democrat for California.

17:07And he's on about 25 percent of the vote. And Steve Hilton, extraordinarily out in front with 27. I mean, Steve's been on this podcast. He used to be one of my closest friends in Hong Kong kind of 30 years ago and always talked about standing for the governor's race with us years ago. We never quite believed it would happen. And to now look at where this race is lying is absolutely gobsmacking. I mean, you know, he's an English guy, right? A British guy who's obviously now got US citizenship and two kids that are being brought up there. But I guess this is the point about a governorship. Unlike the president, you can do what Arnie did.

17:51You can be from outside America. You don't have to be American born to stand for it. And so you have this very English sounding bloke who may yet become the next governor of California. That is frying my brain. And I do think the Democrats have got other questions to ask themselves there, because obviously Gavin Newsom is ending his term. He's had the job for, what, a decade, 10 years. And the fact that they haven't really been able to get the party to coalesce around one candidate yet, I think, is a real problem.

18:26Jon Sopel:Well, we started this episode talking about the problems that Donald Trump has got and the judgment. And one of the remaining lingering problems is, of course, the Epstein files. We'll be talking to one of the Democratic congressmen who is making waves on this issue.

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19:23Jon Sopel:The News Agents USA. Well, joining us now, Congressman Suha Subramaniam, who has been really one of the key voices at the forefront with the Congressional Oversight Committee at trying to help us get to the bottom of the Epstein files since they were released in the last six months. The committee has been tirelessly trying to find some accountability where accountability has not been forthcoming. And last Friday, your committee grilled Pam Bondi, who was the outgoing Attorney General, congressman, who at one stage looked like she wouldn't actually have to face you at all over the questions that victims and survivors still wanted answering.

20:10I wonder if you can just take us into that hearing. I know it was behind closed doors, but how did she come across? What did you ask? Well, she always comes across as combative. That's her style, especially when it comes to questioning from members of Congress. But she was also uncomfortable in this one because we were asking her uncomfortable questions like why did you stop releasing the files at different points why were have you covered up two and a half million files that are set to be released we had some good tough questions for her and the strategy she had coming in was one she was accompanied by high-level officials at the department of justice which is not usual given that she's no longer the head of the Department of Justice.

20:58And so the number two at the Department of Justice was there to essentially block any questions or block her from answering any of our questions that had to do with the president or the cabinet members essentially trying to protect the administration. And the second part is she would generally say to talk to Todd Blanche. And Todd Blanche is the acting attorney general now. And he was in charge of the release of the Epstein files. And he said over and over again, the obscene matter is done in his mind. There's nothing else to see here. But a lot of interesting insights, but a lot of kind of deflecting the blame over to current administration officials, which was surprising to us.

21:40It was extraordinary watching the three hour committee hearing that you did in West Palm Beach a couple of weeks ago, where we heard from several of the victims and they, survivors, the young women, who made very clear the questions that they have for Pam Bondi now. One of them was why their names were released into the public with the Epstein files last November when they had specifically asked to be redacted and why the names of the perpetrators had still been covered up. and hearing their testimony, they clearly think that wasn't a mistake. That was an attempt at intimidation and silencing.

22:25Did she address that at all?

22:37Yes, she did. And if you ask her, she would say, and she did say that this was a mistake, that she's sorry for it, that the reason it happened was because they were under a tight timeline and mistakes were made by reviewers that were overseen by Todd Blanche. I don't accept that. She's been saying since last March that she's had all the files ready to release. She's been misleading the American public in that case. And certainly if the least they could do when looking through the files was to make sure that the survivors' names and information was protected. That's not a hard thing to do. The other thing is they've withheld the two and a half million files because of, one of the reasons is because of the privacy of survivors.

23:26But many of the survivors also asked us at that hearing in Palm Beach for them to release files where they were naming names to the FBI. It's one to shield them from prosecution or from being sued. but also they would at least like their own files personally. The Department of Justice in the United States seems to find nothing further to investigate. There are jurisdictions all over the world that are now working at trying to find accountability for politicians, for people who are mentioned in those files. We know who those people are. You know who those people are. Why is the Department of Justice saying there is nothing to see here and there is no one to investigate?

24:20The reason they're saying that is because President Trump and his acting attorney general, Todd Blanch, do not want the American public to continue discussing this. They want this issue to go away because it appears to be deeply uncomfortable for them. And so it has hurt the president within his own party. The president is personally going after Republican members of Congress who have demanded accountability. He just endorsed against Nancy Mace, who is running for governor. She's the one that pushed for the Bondi deposition. He's now against Lauren Boebert, a longtime ally, trying to push for an opponent for her, which he hasn't been successful with.

24:59And so just a couple examples of of him going after Republicans who have pushed for transparency and accountability. but you know i think a lot of people voted for him because they thought they would get more transparency when it came to the epstein files and other cases like it they're sick of the rich