139: What I’ve Learned From a Loyal Friend with BPN Director of Communications, Trey Freeman

36:19I am not a, like my world doesn't revolve around them. They revolve around my world. Like me and Phoebe are still the priority. And if we're not taking care of ourselves in our marriage, well, guess what? our kids are not going to be taken care of as well. It's kind of what we talked about earlier was like, you know, when you put God at the top and then you take care of your marriage, like it sounds out of order because then your kids are there. What we've learned is when God is at the top and we take care of our marriage, our kids are getting the best version of ourselves. Like they just are.

36:49Because at the end of the day, when our kids are grown up and they leave and they go to college, what's left? Me and Phoebe, you and Steph. like our marriage is still foundational to the kids to the world that we're raising with our kids so the kids are part of our world and yes we do things for them but like my entire existence doesn't revolve around just them you're a part of my world and our marriage that we brought you into and we love you so much we're always going to care for you but i'm not going to sacrifice my marriage on that does that make sense i absolutely agree

37:27Nick Bare:so i think it's one of those things that is this i'm speaking from personal experience so much easier said than done so much easier where it's in the past and this is really what i'm trying to work on in my life for now in my family's life it's like okay i'm gonna get this this business stuff taken care of my work because that's what my family needs and values that's what of thought yeah and then i'm gonna come home from a crazy day at work i'm gonna prioritize the kids and then whatever is left over me and steph can have our time which rarely ever happened so i i do believe that it's god first that lays the foundation and then it's prioritizing marriage and then it is everything else totally and one of the ways that i think about that is i want my kids growing up to watch me and steph love each other yeah you know i i watched my parents growing up they always had the spark like we'd be prepping dinner and my like dad would come to my mom and start kissing her i'm like stop yeah stop stop stop but now looking back my oh my my parents they were in love they were in love and even after decades they didn't lose that and they showed us that and that taught me so much and i want my kids to see that same thing so sometimes as tired as i am at the end of the day and we're all around together and I'm like, okay, I need to love on Steph.

39:14Nick Bare:I need to prioritize her and I want my kids to see what loving on your partner looks like. That's one of the ways that I've tried to be more intentional recently because your kids will listen to what you say, but more importantly, they're going to watch what you do and they're going to emulate that, especially as they get older. So you're for sure one of the most consistent people I've ever met in my life. I think anyone online could probably say that, but like I've lived a life with you now for going on six years and you are so consistent with everything that you're determined to set your mind to.

39:50Now that you've been following Jesus now and you're making these shifts, right?

39:59Has the shifts in your consistency to like break what was been difficult? Does that make sense? Like you're so consistent with like the 445. making the shifts now has it been difficult to like create new consistencies um yes

40:18Nick Bare:you know i have a lot of people in my life who are who told me what i want to hear not what i need to hear and i have a good friend and mentor his name's justin we were on a run last week and i was telling him how i've i've fully surrendered everything to following Jesus? And he said, no, you haven't. You haven't. You're lying to yourself. You say you want to make these changes, but you're not willing to make these changes that you say you're going to. You commit to a lot of things in your life and you're very consistent. And the things that are easy and comfortable for you, it is easy and comfortable for me to wake up at 4 a.m.

41:00Nick Bare:every morning to go knock out my run, no matter how tired I am, because that consistency to my routine and schedule feels really good and striving and accomplishing and achieving. But he was like, in order for you to fully surrender, you need to be able to show up for your family and your work and these people at the best of your ability. That means you need sleep. You need rest. You need recovery. If you're going to fully surrender, you need to break your routine, break everything you know, empty yourself. and follow him. And if you empty yourself and follow Jesus, you will start putting things back in the right order, not for your personal needs, but for what he wants for you to accomplish.

41:48Yeah, because being consistent isn't bad. No. No. I'm like a huge advocate of people that follow Jesus. I'm like, you should be consistent. Yeah. It's the priority thing, right? Yeah, I was just curious, like because you are so you've always been so disciplined so to hear like that that's probably why my when you told me 6 a.m i'm so shocked it's like shocked in a good way because i have watched you sacrifice more than anyone will ever know not just me but like the staff here the people like there's so much that's happened behind closed doors that no one will really know so it it is I'm excited for you and also I'm like I need to get more sleep.

42:30Nick Bare:It's this muscle that when you train it for so long it's really easy to flex. It is super strong. Yeah, I feel like I could easily not sleep. Oh, yeah. That's like last night I was telling Steph I knew today was about to be a really busy day. I was like, hey, I'm just going to wake up at four knock on this run. Yeah. She said, no, you're not. You used to do that before you traveled. Yeah. if we were if we were had a 6 a.m flight i would wake up at 2 30 to go run yeah and i think there's a lot of ego and pride behind that there's a time and place when you just got to get it done yeah but when you keep burying yourself i i talk with people i meet people who are so zombied out because they're unwilling to break their consistent routine again a consistent routine is great yeah but when you are burying yourself and it's hurting you it's hurting your family it's hurting people around you can't think clear you're fatigued you're you're brain fogged you're actually there it's so funny because you know god is the god of clarity i think when we have the right priorities outside of like there's practically things when like your kids just wake up there's just going to be bad days but like what you're saying where you're like you're just brain fog nothing it's like you're striving from a deficit every day i feel like there that is a sense of not having clarity because the priorities are not aligned right yeah when god's at the top i feel like no matter what happens you still have clarity it doesn't mean the days aren't bad and days aren't great but i have clarity because god is the top priority of my life.

44:15And I feel like he provides clarity, even when life is not what you expect or what we expect. God's a God of peace. The Bible says that God provides a peace that surpasses all understanding. That means that on the good days, the bad days, the days that don't make sense, he provides a peace and a clarity that surpasses what you experience on earth. And so I think that when we talk about the brain fog, I've experienced that so many times and I realize again hindsight is 2020 it's because i've not prioritized the main thing and i i feel so challenged sometimes when i'm like i am so willing to sleep for four hours and go for a five mile run 10 mile run track workout but the question i've been asking myself recently is am i equally as willing to wake up and read my bible and there's some days i'm not yeah but i'm I fully believe that if we can give our first part of our day to God, he will provide a path for the rest of the day.

45:18Not saying that you can't wake up and run and do all those things, but the challenge that I've been, and the question I've been asking myself is, am I equally as willing to give up sleep in time or move a workout at the expense of my soul?

45:40Nick Bare:it's tough yeah i recently heard what are you willing to let go of so you can go higher yeah there there's a ceiling where you can't go any higher because you're not willing to let go of certain things and for a long time i was not willing to let go of a lot of things and something that i keep in mind recently a lot is god doesn't ask you to sacrifice but he asks you to be obedient There's a difference between sacrificing and being obedient. And I believe I used to view them as the same thing. Yeah, and the Bible is really clear about that in the Old Testament. It talks about God isn't looking for a sacrifice.

46:22He's looking for obedience. Because in the Old Testament, they had to bring sacrifice to have the presence of God come down. And I don't wanna quote any scripture. But yeah, you're totally right. and I had a mentor of mine for years. He's still a mentor in my life, Brian Cromer. And he, one of the number one things he's taught me and we've talked about it, is in God's kingdom, success equals obedience, which is so backwards because what we've been doing, you would deem as success, which is successful what we're doing. But when we stack it into God's kingdom, what true success is, is obedience.

47:02Obedience is what God's saying. Yeah, I've had a lot of different, mindset shifts lately that I've just been sitting on and thinking about. I'm really proud of what we have built up until this point.

47:21Nick Bare:Absolutely. And what we've accomplished and how we've gotten here. I'm very proud of that. But I've also reached a point, and I've realized that for this next chapter, it's going to look a little different the way that we get there it has to and i believe i have confidence that will continue to bring us success because we are prioritizing the right things and that we are being obedient to what god wants us to do and we're pursuing things that we don't just want for ourselves, but because we know that this is what we're asking to do and how we're asking to do it and where we're asking to go. And if we follow his will and his word, success will be multiplied.

48:17Nick Bare:We will be blessed. But we're not doing it because of the multiplication of success. We're not doing it for the blessing. We're doing it because it is the right thing and because we're being called to be obedient. Absolutely. So that's how I see this next chapter of life looking for us. Yeah. And that brings me so much peace and joy and fulfillment, knowing that, hey, we got here by trying to muscle it on our own, or at least me, muscle it on my own. Now what happens if I surrender and I just focus on obedience? I know that will only lead us to the right place in the right way. Yeah, when you follow God, you'll never fail.

49:07Like, can life be hard? Absolutely. And life will be hard. But if you follow God and you're obedient to what he's asking you to do, you can't fail because God is perfect. Life will be hard. Things will happen and life will be great. But the confidence that we have is that God cannot fail. It's not in his nature to fail us. So when we follow God, literally nothing can fail. Bad things happen, good things happen, but it doesn't change the overarching truth that God is truth and he cannot fail. So it takes all the pressure off because we're not responsible. We're responsible to steward it and to obey.

49:51But at the end of the day, if we do those two things we can rest knowing that it's going to be good

49:57Nick Bare:we were sitting in church like two weeks ago and Pastor Joe was talking about that and I took like the the tithing envelope and I wrote in the back of it I showed it to Steph we can't lose we can't lose isn't it a great feeling? yes the people behind me are probably like what's wrong with that? I was like we can't lose and it said that it wrote it on the card oh my gosh you spend so much time in a defensive position trying to hedge all of your vulnerabilities and weaknesses and when you realize that like you surrender that and you just follow this one person you can't lose you're you're on offense now yeah and now you you probably fully understand now why you so badly want other people to know that's why that's why i want to share there's what i've experienced yeah you've you've you've seen and tasted the other side right and you've seen the worst of life and now through jesus you've seen what true joy and true happiness is and i know at least for me I just don't want anyone to miss out on that.

51:22I want people to feel the peace that surpasses all understanding. I want them to feel the joy that is irreplaceable, that'll never run dry. Because there's a lot of hurting people out there. And man, there's a joy that can absolutely save your life. It's even shifted the way that I consume content

51:45Nick Bare:in terms of books, podcasts, audio books. Like you know me, for the last 10 years, I have listened to or read every self-help book, every self-help podcast imaginable. I've listened to all of them, all of them. And from a strategy and a tactic standpoint, they have definitely helped me. they have definitely helped me get to where I am today I'm very grateful for the content that's been created by many people but that's all they are is transactional strategy and tactics and they work for a period of time and then they don't and then you're constantly searching for what's the next self-help book what's the next self-help podcast what's this unlock that I haven't experienced or found yet Where's that key at that someone has?

52:47Nick Bare:And you see all the marketing behind all of these materials and it's, this is what's missing in your life. And you consume it, you read it, you listen to it. You think it's the answer, you apply it. It works for a period of time and then it doesn't. And you're searching for the next thing. And now I found that one thing. I found the key, I found the truth. So I don't need all of those other things. again they have they have gotten me to this point i'm so grateful for and they're great tools they're great tools yeah but that's all they are is tools tools yeah they're not the foundation no yeah the bible talks about you there's i believe it's in matthew it talks about building your life on the rock of jesus so that when the winds and the storms come if a house is built on the sand when the winds and storms come the house will fall but a house that's built on the rock of jesus the foundation of God, it cannot be shaken.

53:42You've now found the foundation, right? So you're building your life and your house on a foundation that regardless of the storms of life and the realities of what happens to us, it cannot be shaken versus when our life was not found in Jesus, we were building on something that was sinking sand and is not stable. And so anything of any magnitude or size could blow us over and really wreck our world. And I think that's where it's It's like, it's hard to watch. It's hard to watch people when you know that there's a firm foundation that you could build your life on regardless of what's happening.

54:20And when you watch people not do that, it's hard because you want that. Like I know for me and Phoebe, we just want people to find and experience the joy that we have. Yeah, you're building a foundation on the rock of Jesus, on a firm foundation on him. And then these books that I still consume these books, they're just not my foundation. Like I love listening to podcasts. I love reading books. I love consuming creative inputs for our job. They're just on top of what I'm building, the foundation that I laid.

55:00Nick Bare:Yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah, I think the way you describe that, I paint a picture of how I view what I'm going through right now. I've spent the last... 13 years working on BPN. Yeah. And we built this house, but it's taken a long time. It's taken a long time and it was really hard. And it was really hard and took a long time because I've been trying to find all the materials. I built the house one way, realized I built it the wrong way. so I have to fix things and things would fall apart along the way. So I'd go patch them and repair them. I had to find different contractors and subcontractors to come in and help build this house.

55:51Nick Bare:And in over 13 years, the house has been built and it's strong. But now maybe that house has been wiped down or I have to build a new house. But now I have all this knowledge based off of all this learning and understanding from the last 13 years and this new understanding. So I can now go build this new home, this new house on a stronger foundation. I have all the materials I need. I know exactly what materials are needed. I have the resources. I know the contractors. I know the subcontractors who are going to do the best work. I will make mistakes along the way, but there'll be smaller mistakes.

56:36Nick Bare:And this house will be bigger, it'll be stronger, it'll be more durable. It won't be as weak or vulnerable or susceptible to breakdown and destruction because I've learned over a long time of what it takes to build strongly. And it'll far exceed anything we can think or imagine, right? I think that's a crazy thing, is wherever we go from here in terms of BPM, it'll always be bigger than we think when the foundation's that way yeah because god's ways are above our ways his thoughts are above our thoughts god's dream for our lives are bigger than the dreams that we can have for our lives which is crazy to think crazy because we dream so big right yeah god's dream is bigger than anything we can think of for our own lives it gets me super excited for the future.

57:33I mean, literally before I joined BPN, I was like, this is, I mean, doing freelance was really hard, but I was like, I felt like I was doing what God was asking me to do and I was being obedient and I got to see and do things that I never thought. And then I joined BPN and never in a million years did I think on May 4th, 2020, when I walked in here that in September of 2025, we would sit in like a podcast room because God's dreams are

58:04Nick Bare:always bigger than our dreams. What did life look like before BPN for you and Phoebe? Yeah, me and Phoebe. So I used to work in ministry, you know that church world. So I graduated college from LSU and then I went to work at a few churches in Shreveport, Louisiana, small town Shreveport, I was actually in Bossier City. Anyone that's familiar with Shreveport knows where Bossier is. If you don't know where Bossier is, just don't, it's okay. Worked in ministry there and that was like the beginning of my ministry career. And then I got hired at a church in Dallas. And in between that is when I met Phoebe.

58:45I was actually interviewing for a job at Celebration. And so was Phoebe. She ended up taking the job, getting the job. And I was just more focused on Phoebe. and we met we dated a long distance and we both finally moved to dallas and we got engaged in dallas and then we were on staff at a church there building a life that we loved and we got married and two weeks after we got married phoebe woke me up one morning and said i don't feel like this is home and i was like well that's funny because i signed a 12-month lease like three weeks ago and And so we prayed about it and we almost moved to Seattle.

59:21And one weekend we came to Austin because Phoebe's parents live here. And I just told Phoebe, I'm not leaving without an answer. And I'll never forget, we were on the South Congress Bridge. You know the time of the year when the bats come out and there's like hundreds of people standing? So we were at the very end of the bridge and the bats were flying out. It has nothing to do with bats. I was just sitting up against a car and I just had this wave crash over me at peace that we needed to move to Austin.

59:49Nick Bare:The only thing that we knew that we had here was Phoebe's parents and a church that we love and that celebration. And so we drove back to Dallas. We told our bosses, we quit our jobs that both had full-time salary, income with benefits. And we came here with no jobs and no money. But - How old were you guys? Oh gosh. phoebe was 23 and i was 26 so i would not advise anyone to do that outside if you feel like that's called you to do that you can like confidently say that now in hindsight like it led you to where you had to be absolutely and no one will ever be able to question like hey do you know what it's like to walk by faith like i absolutely do because i i felt like me and phoebe heard the voice of god heard the call to come to Austin and we gave up everything and it was a really humbling experience so I went into full-time freelance photography we lived with Phoebe's parents for almost a year god bless her parents I can't imagine as a parent that your daughter gets married and then they live with you for nine months I've it was such a humbling experience I wanted to give up photography so many times and uh i i tried i really did over three years i tried multiple times to like okay look this is really hard like built i mean nothing compares to like what you went through like for me that was really hard we were we both didn't have jobs phoebe ended up being a nanny and i was just like trying to make freelance work and every time i tried to quit But I remember I was looking at jobs on like Craigslist.

1:01:34I was desperate. To do what? What'd you want to do? Anything. I was like, maybe I'll find something. I would look and be like, maybe God will just speak to me about one of these jobs on Craigslist. Because you wanted security? Yeah. I just was like, there's no way that I'm still doing exactly what God wants me to do because it got so hard. We, I mean, it was just like every dime mattered. Like every dollar mattered. It would, and one day I was looking, and I was just over it. And I was looking for jobs and I literally will never forget. I felt like God said, it's not what I told you to do. I was like, well, these bills are very real and I'm getting frustrated.

1:02:19And I still, I was like, okay, whatever. I got over my anger and just kept plugging, chugging along. And then Jordan moved here. Me and Jordan became close friends and he asked if I wanted to shoot the Austin Marathon. How did you and Jordan meet? Crazy, right? So the pastor I mentioned earlier, Brian Cromer, I worked with him in Dallas. He went to plant a church in Cincinnati called Queen City. The first person that attended his church was Michael Millay. Michael Millay texted me and said, hey, I have a buddy, Jordan, moving down to Austin. He's going to work in a supplement company. He's good people.

1:02:55Could you meet him? Jordan moved here on like a Tuesday. I met him on Wednesday and we just became pals and three three months four months later Jordan asked if I wanted to shoot the Austin Marathon with you it was 2019 right yeah yeah yeah so and

1:03:11Nick Bare:then I shot the marathon I'll never forget the day that I'll never forget meeting you for the first time same uh I knew you were shooting the marathon for us but I didn't meet you prior to the finish line. No, I met you for two seconds at the start. This was 2019. This was my second marathon ever. I ran like a four hour, 15 minute marathon there. And getting across that finish line, I was in the pain cave. Yeah, you were. I remember getting across the finish line and you were taking photos and you kind of like just came up next to me and you had grabbed my arm put it around you it carried me to like over to where jordan was and steph was and you gave me like a bottle of water and like snacks and you dropped me off with my crew and i remember just thinking there in that moment this guy just he's here to serve he gets it and we need him on this team the team was tiny then i mean we had four people yeah but that's all it took was one small interaction i was like i need this guy on the team yeah and how how shortly after that moment did you start working for me gosh that was february and then what's so funny is when i left the race i was like i mean phoebe could remember it all i was like so consumed with how do i get around those people again because it was one of the first times where i felt like the things that i valued and the type of person i was like wanting to be was was i found them like really driven care about fitness but also care about people like i could just tell you guys cared about each other so for like two months i just like couldn't stop thinking about it of course i'm still shooting freelance stuff and then that was in february and then jordan called me i can't i drove up to the old hq to drop off a mic to jordan and what i had been doing like these crazy shifts because we were bringing our church online because of covid we were just there was like 10 of us that knew how to do that so we were just working like 15 hour days at the church and he was like hey do you want to come work here i was like i could have cried i was like yes but what do you mean and then he was like he told me about the job social you could come do photo i know you're doing freelance but like if you're interested let me know and i was like yeah absolutely and then yeah i believe he was like you want to come in for an interview i was like oh yeah sure well it wasn't an interview do you remember that no yeah george like come in for an interview it was in when we were in the old office and i'd come like prepared for interview and i walked in we went into the the podcast room yeah yeah the old old old podcast and you just said hey this is a job here's the salary can you start two weeks i was like i remember being like yeah uh and i tried to ask you a bunch of questions and you just were like yeah this is what we need we're just trying to do this thing and does that sound good and i i just asked you to email me like an offer letter yeah because i had to like i wanted to be able to like sign it and show my work that i was like legit leaving and had a job yeah that was uh that was a funny day but also like a really powerful day because when you actually sent me the offer letter which i'm pretty sure you like googled it it was like oh guaranteed and it had like an initial box with your name and then like your title and then like a line for me to sign it was really funny it's not like what we have now no not even close this was like you sent it to me from your gmail account it was so unofficial but I'll never forget it and the reason was I opened it I'll never forget where I was sitting we lived downtown that house we always ran by and I was in this yellow chair we had this yellow retro arm chair that had ducks on it and I sat in the corner next to our TV.

1:07:21And I think you sent the offer later, like two days later. So like 48 hours, I was like sweating bullets. And I got the email, opened it. And I just, again, that like wave of peace like crashed over me. Because at this point, I think it'd been three years doing freelance. And I just kept going because I feel like that's what God was telling me to do. And I'll never forget. I feel like God told me in that moment, this is why you always obey. And I sobbed because in that moment, I felt like for the first time in a long time that that small decision, I say small, it was a big decision that led to like three years of just kind of searching and obeying.

1:08:05It was a moment where I got to see a small portion of like fruit that I got to reap from being obedient for years. and that's why when i came i was like i'm gonna steward this as much as i can because i know what it was like to be on the other side of it and i feel like god brought into my life and i don't want to not steward what god is had brought into my life yeah so that was

1:08:31Nick Bare:five and a half years ago we have this photo from those early days that i love and it's you me and jordan sitting in that old podcast room our creative meeting yeah we're all we didn't have a table we didn't have chairs all of our gear was kind of on the perimeter of the walls yeah and we were sitting there doing like a creative meeting the team was so small then yeah and we were probably meeting about bp and and your content it was all on the same thing and we'd show up we didn't really have a marketing calendar or a plan we'd show up that day and it was what are we creating what are we filming what do we need to do and let's figure it out yeah but those early years were so much fun they were crazy it was so much fun it's still fun but it was a different fun yeah it is so much fun now there's just things that we did then that you can't do now yeah it was a lot of fun like i remember me and jordan would like plan a photo to shoot and we would do it that morning and then we'd get a text from you at like 11 a.m.

1:09:37and you're like, hey, I'm running at 3. And we would jump in your truck and we'd go chase you down an old country road that's no longer a country road because Georgetown's huge now. And then we would come back and we would edit it right then and there. And then we'd do it all over again. The quickest turn around.

1:09:52Nick Bare:Yeah. Man, over these last like five and a half years,

1:10:00Nick Bare:you and Jordan and both have been with me through it all. There's been good days. There's been really bad days. There's been easy times. There's been really hard times. It has been such a journey. The entrepreneurial journey, it's so interesting. And what makes it so interesting is the people that are on that journey with you. and one of the reasons i wanted to have you on the podcast for conversations we've truly been of all the people that i i work with and know we have done life together in sync yeah and out of sync the most of these last five and a half years yeah you joined early on we had our daughters within days apart our sons close together uh we've experienced life together we went on our first baby moon together in cabo yeah and you have been so loyal and faithful through it all and i'm so grateful and appreciative for you you have been so faithful and there have been people in my life who have come and go and when times have gotten hard they've ran and they've taken the easier route and you stuck with me and this mission the whole way through yeah so i'm so just grateful for you as a friend um i appreciate that yeah Yeah, absolutely.

1:11:43It's like, I think the older I get too

1:11:46Nick Bare:and as our kids get older and I just like sit back and I reflect. I'm like, there's certain people in my life who have jumped ship when things got hard, but you've been one of those people who have just like stuck with. Yeah, and it's one of those things like, I believe building deep, meaningful relationships is like critical to life.

1:12:16Like life is hard. Like life is good. Life is great. But life is inevitably hard. And I don't think that God designed us to do that alone. And I do my best to recognize in those moments when I feel like God brings people into my life. I don't feel like God brought me, like the way I view it, I don't feel like God brought me into your life. I feel like God brought you into my life. And I just decided I wanted to like build a, yes, build BPN. Absolutely. Wanted to build BPN. Still want to build BPN. But I never wanted to build it at the expense of the friendship that me and you have built and that me and Jordan have built.

1:13:01Two of my best friends in life. You've seen, we've lived our best days, days boring days and the worst days together and i feel like and what i know to be true is that relationships that are worth fighting for you have to go through that stuff like if you really want to build a strong like have strong friendships and strong community you have to be able to go through all those things together yeah i agree you have to be able to like have the hard conversations We've had hard conversations over the years and we've stuck it out. And I feel like you've stuck it out with me. I've stuck it out with you.

1:13:39And I'm grateful for our friendship and for no other reason than like, I just enjoy being friends. And I love watching our kids grow up together. And I love that our wives are friends. And I love that we now get to share our faith in Jesus together. And I know there's gonna be more highs and more lows. and obviously so grateful for BPM. It'll never top how much I care that me and Phoebe care about you and your family though.

1:14:14Nick Bare:I can relate to that. Yeah. The relationships come first. The people always come first. And it's really hard. It's really hard, especially when it gets messy. Yeah. And I've been in seasons where I have deprioritized the relationships over certain business decisions. Yeah. And they've never been the right decisions or choices. But having the people around you that can like, I know you've stuck it out with me when I've not been in a good spot. Now, is it like pretty? No, but like I never have felt like in the friendships that I've built that are like deep relationships. When I'm in one of those unhealthy spots, they're still there.

1:14:57It's not pretty, but I feel like I've watched you stick it out with me over the years as well i appreciate that yeah i mean like when you were in nashville i even though we were apart and not building like in tandem here i feel like we you stuck it out with me through that time when i was here and then you know when when phoebe miscarried that first time i feel like you guys stuck it out with us and you like it's messy but i think there's a i fully believe that god designed us to live in a relationship with

1:15:33Nick Bare:people yeah i agree yeah i'll never forget uh you know we found out we were pregnant we were outside a golden rule yeah and i think it was a big like team dinner we were doing and we walked off with you guys and we're like hey we gotta tell you something we're pregnant and you guys said us too dude Phoebe had been like tripping all night cause she was like I gotta tell Steph I gotta tell Steph I was like yeah yeah totally just what's so funny is didn't you know that Phoebe was pregnant with Otto before I knew yes yeah Steph told Steph told me yeah cause I texted you I was like guess what we're pregnant and you were like yeah I knew yesterday yeah that was that was a fun time cause then the girls were born days apart two days apart yeah we were in the hospital together yeah i remember you brought your yeti in with all my all my meals prepped yeah and i had prepped meals but because phoebe was an emergency c-section they all went bad in a cooler in the in my car dude i i ate hospital sushi uh when we were in the hospital with charlie did you fight for your life i survived somehow but looking back i'm like that was the stupidest thing i've ever done hospital sushi yeah that's when i'm like grateful for the discipline we've built.

1:16:50I'm like, I can't eat hospital food.

1:16:52Nick Bare:No, no. I had a core of meat and potatoes in my Yeti for days. In your bag. So, you know, these last five and a half years, what would you say is like one of the biggest key lessons, takeaways from watching BPN go from literally being a startup when we had four people to what it is today with 45 full-time employees and it's a bigger business and there's more systems, there's more leadership, more operations. What's something you really take away from those years? Yeah, I was thinking about the last night when I was looking at the notes you sent and one of the things I wrote down, which I think we've talked about, which is more isn't always the answer.

1:17:47and we learned that the hard way yeah i think that more businesses and brands would be successful if they realized that more is not the answer in success meaning i think that they would be more more brands that could stand the test of time if they realize that more is not the answer always the answer i think there's moments where like adding is what you need but I think what we walked through was when we started to grow rapidly, all the opportunities appear. Let's sponsor this. Let's go to this race. Let's add this product. Let's do the apparel line. Let's do these things. And now that we've been hyper fixated on focusing down and getting very specific about who BPN is and who we're serving and what we're offering, I've just realized that more isn't the answer.

1:18:43I think more also is the, can be the enemy of excellence. I feel like we've watched that over the years where we tried to launch different products or we tried to be a wellness and an endurance and a performance category brand. And trying to be great in all those categories is really hard. And because you're talking to so many different people, right? And I think one of the biggest lessons professionally I've learned is more is not always the answer. Then it can be the enemy of excellence.

1:19:19Nick Bare:Would you agree? Yeah. I was actually just thinking about that on my run this morning. Sometimes it's one of those things you can't really measure, but you have a gut feel and intuition. And this is where I really lean on you and Jordan both to tell me, hey, I think we're doing too much or we're not doing enough. you know what's funny about that though is i feel like the because someone the other day asked like how do you build intuition like in a team i think you build intuition by providing clarity i feel like me and jordan have over the years gotten more of a gut feeling that you always tell us about because you've laser focused the brand like the the tighter that you've like reigned in the vision the easier it is for me at least to have this like intuition feeling because you've provided clarity on like this is the direction versus when it's really wide yeah i think i think clarity allows you to make really easy consistent decisions easy meaning it's either an absolute yes or it's an absolute no and when that vision isn't clear and there's a lack of clarity you don't know what you say yes to or what you say no to there's no core values there's no purpose there's no goals yeah and um i mean there's still moments where i sit back i'm thinking we're doing a little too much right now yeah and then that that calibrates your intuition and gut for the next season next chapter but i would completely agree with that where the bigger you get i think you feel this need to do more to be in front of more people and eyes and launch new products and seize more opportunities, but I would argue it's actually the opposite.

1:21:04Nick Bare:Why do you think people do it? Because you're trying to maintain momentum. It's that we grew 20 % last year. This year, we have to grow at least 20 % to maintain that same momentum. So you feel a pressure to do all of these new things, to keep up with the level of growth that you've been sustaining for the years prior. And then you realize that it doesn't mean you have to do more. You can do more with less. you can maintain momentum without taking on more opportunities yeah more doesn't equal momentum no no no not at all yeah we've learned that yeah because there's been a lot of times where we're doing more and we have less momentum and that feels horrible i still i what's crazy is i still feel the pull though i don't know if you do like to do more like me and jordan talk about a lot like specifically on social we're like because we'll go these like stretches like the ultra where we're like pumped out a lot of stuff and then there's just nothing coming that feels like that and we're like should we be doing more in reality is like no we shouldn't definitely i i i experienced that same thing sometimes when there is what feels like it's a lull in time you feel the need to fill the calendar but as soon as you fill the calendar oftentimes you overfill it yeah you over commit and then the things you take action on they just they don't hit they don't land yeah instant gratification yeah like one of the reasons the ultra hit so hard is because there was an extended period of time where we didn't do something of that level and capacity yeah so it was the right opportunity it was the right time it was the right race it was the perfect symphony of all these things

1:22:58yeah well brother i appreciate you yeah absolutely i think what you've been building is crazy we we've been building is crazy i'm honored to be a part when you texted me i was walking to the sauna you know like my stomach fell to the floor i was like because i thought at first i thought you wanted me to come hit the record button and then you were like no come have a conversation um but yeah absolutely honor of a lifetime to be on the podcast but also just to do life with you um yeah bpn will never replace friendship for me and i'm grateful and i'm excited to see what we we build right i mean that's what i get so excited

1:23:41Nick Bare:about coming to work every day is that i'm just hanging out with my bros yeah and we get to work on fun projects and have great like real meaningful conversations and we're doing it because we love it with people we love and care about what sorry i know you're about to end it what would you tell people who don't have that because i i actually really do struggle with giving an answer for that because I know what we have here is really special. I think anyone that walks through the doors, they're like, I've never been anywhere like this. And there's a part of me that doesn't know what to tell them.

1:24:21Nick Bare:I mean, I think it goes back to the earlier part of our conversation is people try to guide their own life, muscle their own life. And I think you have to take action to create the opportunities that you want to experience and where you want to be. But at the same time, that's where having a faith and following Jesus is so foundational. The ultimate fulfillment. Where let God guide you there. Yeah. Because you're obedient to what he's asking you to do. It would probably be crazy if someone heard like, I'm sure you feel this way now. That's how I feel is, what we do and what we have is so crazy, but it's not the ultimate fulfillment of my life.

1:25:10my fulfillment is found in jesus and this is a huge blessing alongside of it and i think that's like now i'm starting to answer my own question which is if your fulfillment and your confidence your security is found in jesus then when these opportunities present themselves they're just like a huge blessing to be a part of and it'll make you really have the ability to decide and

1:25:36Nick Bare:choose who you spend your time with and around. And I believe if you are really strong in your faith, in your beliefs, in your values, and then you find people who have those same beliefs, values, and faith, you are creating opportunities for yourself to position yourself somewhere that you will be truly fulfilled as opposed to, hey, I just found this job that makes four times what we're making right now in this city that we don't want to go to but we should go because we're gonna make a lot of money yeah you get there and you're like the money's great but everything else isn't yeah it's tough it's tough and sometimes that right thing is coming but it's not on your timeline yeah following god's not like a linear path.

1:26:31I think a lot of people view it like I'm here where I need to be is here. And it's going to be like a straight line. And it's just not. No. Following God is not a linear path and that's okay. It'll be on his timeline that is right for you to achieve what he has set out and laid the

1:26:50Nick Bare:path for you to experience, achieve, and fulfill. And it's never on your timeline. No, that's okay. totally but that's what surrendering is all about yeah because i've over the years did my short time following jesus when i push the timeline or i try to get it get my way or achieve something

1:27:14the like god's not in it like i'm i'm kicking the door down i'm like what we talked about forcing the opportunity versus when God's leading, God's grace carries you. He opens the doors. He makes a way, he gives you the peace, all of those things. But I've had those seasons where I want this. And ultimately, if I focus on it night and day, I believe that God will give you over to the desires of your heart, which is one of the biggest fears of my life. God talks about in the Bible that God gave them over to the desires of their heart. I don't want that. I want whatever God wants for me, I want that.

1:27:52Yeah. I don't want to, because I know that my desires for my heart ultimately are fleshly and I don't want to be given over to those desires. I want my heart to desire what God has for my family and for me and not just, I think that one of the biggest things I've learned over the years, following God is not about what I'm doing. It's about who I'm becoming and realizing that God cares so much more about who I am versus what I'm doing. And that is such a hard thing for high achievers to like grip, come to grips with. Like I've found so much security over the last year realizing that God cares so much just about who I am and that I'm becoming who I'm becoming.

1:28:42The person I'm becoming, am I growing closer to Jesus? Am I being transformed into his image? Am I loving my kids? Am I loving my wife? Like God wants me to steward this really well. And I want to, but I've realized that God's number one thing that he cares about for me is am I loving God and my loving people? And that all revolves around who I am. The purest form of who I am is what matters the most, not my career, not our careers. They're really important. but who we are is vastly more important than what we do.

1:29:21Nick Bare:Yeah. So one of my favorite things that Pastor Lyle Phillips said on the podcast when I had him on, talking about the difference between having a fear of God and being afraid of God. People are afraid of God because they're afraid of what he's going to ask them to do. And they don't surrender because if God asked them to go move somewhere else, pursue this new life and change the course of direction. I kind of like the path I'm on right now. So I'm going to avoid that. So I'm afraid of what I'm afraid to go all in because of what God might ask me to do. It's a lie. It's a lie. It's a lie. The path of following Jesus is the greatest path you can walk on.

1:30:03Literally. The ultimate fulfillment, the ultimate reward. Scary? Yes. Hard? Sure. the peace that you get can't explain it trey freeman until next time love you brother love you man