Advice for Maresca, Salah backing & Nigeria home truths

22:47John Obi Mikel:He needs to be mentally strong because his players are watching him. Your demeanor, the way you conduct yourself, what you speak, what you say, your players are watching you and they will follow. So what, I guess, keeps the wolves from the door? I mean, it's the obvious, I guess, point when football matches. And when we talk about the next five, I'm going to pop you on the spot. I know you always wear blue tinted glasses. But honestly speaking, from what you've seen of this Chelsea team, the mixing and matching, the matching, the little bit of inconsistency, the performances, certainly the inconsistency in results.

23:20What's a good return from the next five? 15 points up for grabs. Newcastle away, Villa at home, Bournemouth at home, City away, Fulham away. How many points do you take from that? Oh. If I offered you 10 right now, would you take it?

23:42John Obi Mikel:I'll snap your finger off. For 10. I'll snap your arm off for 10. So that would be, yeah. But? Three wins are drawn to defeat from that five. The way we're playing, Cole Palmer is back. Kayseri is going to be back. I think we'll be a much better team, a stronger team.

24:05John Obi Mikel:I reckon 10, yeah. 9-10. 9-10 points I think we'll probably get from those games. I think the City game is going to be tough. I think away, if we can get a draw. Newcastle away. Newcastle will be tough. And Villa. Villa, the way they're playing right now, they're absolutely on fire, Villa. So that's going to be another difficult game. But again, we've said it so many times, the big games brings out the best out of us. The big game is where we play so well. It's where everything just clicks for this team. Everything clicks for Enzo Mareska and this squad. You have Rhys James playing that midfield role alongside Caicedo.

24:41John Obi Mikel:You have... Interesting to see where Enzo Fernandes plays, if you're going to play Cole Palmer in the number 10 or Enzo Fernandes as a number 10. Because I'm 100 % sure that Cole Palmer is going to be Caicedo and Rhys James in the big games. 100%. Right? 100%. So where does Cole fit? Where does Cole fit in that position? My personal opinion, I don't want to see him on the wide. I've said this so many times. He's more effective. He's more involved in the game when he plays as a number 10. When he plays in front of those two, where he's involved in everything going on. That's where I want to see him.

25:17John Obi Mikel:But it's going to be interesting to see where the manager plays him. The big games, and all these games you've mentioned are big games. In the big games, we tend to play very well. We tend to find a way of playing around those pressure. You know, the big teams, they come out and they press us. You know, it's an open game. We're more creative. We're more relaxed. We play well. We're courageous with the ball. We're brave with the ball. And that's what helps us in the big games because we're not scared to hold the ball. We're not scared to make mistakes. But in the smaller games, we've said it so many times, the so-called smaller games are the games that...

25:48John Obi Mikel:Tripping you up. We can't fucking find a way of winning smaller games. That's why Cole, him coming back... It's ridiculous. And finding four will be good. The big games, we're so good. We're absolutely fantastic. But then come the smaller teams, the so-called smaller teams, because in the Premier League now, trust me, there's no smaller teams. But when you play against the Sunderlands, against the Leeds, the promoted side, who've just drawn and lost to, it's incredible that we don't find a way of winning those games. So many times last season, I said it, we drew way too many of those games. We lost and drew so many of those smaller teams last season.

26:27John Obi Mikel:And that's what's come and beat us last season, come towards the end of the season. And that's what we look back, come at the end of the season, and we're thinking, fucking hell, how the fuck did we draw all those games? How did we not win those smaller teams? And that's what's happening against this season. That's what, Enzo Moresca needs to find a way. I have no idea. It's not my fucking job to find a solution for him. That's why I'm not a manager. You can just talk about it on the podcast. That's the beauty we can see. It's his job. He spent the big bus to find a solution. That's why he's a Chelsea man.

26:59John Obi Mikel:He needs to find a solution of how we can win those so-called smaller games. Because if you keep winning those games and you're drawing the bigger teams or you're picking up points from the smaller teams, the bigger teams, come the end of the season, you'll be in a much better place. You'll be there or thereabouts. There or thereabouts. But we're not doing that. we consistently failed to win those more. Yes, we did beat Everton, but yeah. But we've drawn a lot of those games again this season. And it is something that ends the morning. I don't know how he's going to do it, but it is something he needs to find a way.

27:32John Obi Mikel:Because when teams come and sit and say, you know what, Chelsea Football Club, we know you have Cole Palmer. We know you have Jao Pedro, Ganaccio, Pedro Neto. Come and break us down. Come on, come. Let's see what you have. We consistently find We don't find a way of doing that. We should be at this point right now, find a way of finding the solution. How do we break them down? Is this something that he needs to give? I don't know. I'm thinking about, I was thinking about it the other day. Is this something, okay, you know what we like? Oh, here you go. You can have the ball. Come on, tacos. Come on, tacos.

28:09John Obi Mikel:Here, here you go. You can have the ball. Here you go. That's not angels' way. When they do that, then they leave themselves exposed. When we have the ball, we can go as quickly as possible and make sure we counterattack. But not at the... You know, you've played at the bridge. You can't do that. You can't do that at the bridge. But I'm just trying to find a solution here. I'm tinkering like Enzo Moresca. That's why you're here, mate. If you gave the ball to the opposition at the bridge, there would be a mutiny. You know it. And that's not the way Enzo... Enzo doesn't play that way. I'm trying to find a solution.

28:38John Obi Mikel:I'm trying to help Enzo here. But honestly, we have to find a way of winning. Because if you look at the Peps, you know, the city, you know, why they've been so successful over the years, winning the Premier League six times, four in a row. They know, Pep Guardiola knows, games that he has to win. A boss win game. Games that you can't look back at the end of the season and think, you know what, that's cost us the Premier League. Those are the games that cost us the Premier League. We should have won those games. We should have, could have. That's what you'd be talking about at the end of the season.

29:09John Obi Mikel:And we don't want to be doing that. So for me, again, that's why when I look at us, we don't have this squad right now to go on and win the Premier League. It's obvious. We all know that. We all know that. We cannot see that. Next season, we have to strengthen. And we have to. Honestly, if the club don't strengthen and the center backs and bring in at least one top center back. At least one. Because Levi Cowboy is going to come back from his injury. At least one top, top center back. And a top, top goalkeeper. Top, top goalkeeper. will be in this position. We will be in a much better position next season.

29:53John Obi Mikel:And I'm sure the club knows that. They have to do that. But this season, we have to finish in the top four. The top four is where I see us because, you know, I think the Arsenal and the City, they're just above us. And I think those two, between them, one of them is going to go on and win the Premier League. But again, if we find ourselves come April, May, we're there, thereabout, why not? Go for it. Compete to win it. But right now, I just think the inconsistency that we have, that we've had this season, is probably what's cost us where we are right now. And I don't disagree with any of that.

30:26One team that is now starting to show the consistency, I guess, that Chelsea would love to be having is Man City. I've got to say well done to you because you actually came in and I monitor our social media, John. A couple of weeks ago, you said, you watch City a lot. I know you do. And you said, listen, Phil Foden, I'm starting to get a feeling that that boy is getting back to the Phil Foden that we saw not last season, but the season before. And one or two comments, what? Are you kidding me? Yeah. No, he wasn't kidding. Yeah. And you're absolutely spot on because Phil Foden is in this little rich vein of form.

30:59Six goals in his last four Premier League outings. Throwing an assistant there as well. It's the Phil Foden of all that we're starting to see. He's pulling the strings.

31:07John Obi Mikel:He's pulling the strings. It's, you know, it's the Phil Foden that we, as a football fan, we love to watch good players. We love to watch creative players. We love to, we enjoy watching. Not that we, you know, we also love to watch the number six, the defensive Miffy players. You know what I mean? Do we? But you love to watch a number 10, a good number 10, a creative number 10, a maverick of a number 10, a player that like to try stuff, a player that like to create chances, score goals. Two seasons ago, Phil Foden was absolutely fantastic for Manchester City. He was unplayable at some point. Played of the year.

31:43John Obi Mikel:Player of the Year. Amazing. Everything he touched was turned to gold. He was absolutely fantastic. He was pulling the strings. He was creating chances. He was scoring goals. Everything he was doing was absolutely fantastic. And then they went on this sticky patch last season where they were absolutely shit. And he was, you know, he struggled massively. A lot of issues off the pitch. A lot of issues off the pitch. You know, he wasn't, seems like he wasn't happy. And Pep Guardiola's always said it. When a manager knows his player and knows the buttons and knows what it takes for his players to perform.

32:18John Obi Mikel:Pep Guardiola absolutely knows what it takes for field forwarding to perform. He knows him really, really well. He knows how to get the best out of field forwarding. He's in an absolutely fantastic form. We said it here on the board, you know, he's back playing. This is the field forwarding that we all know. That ability of that first touch. He has one of the best first touches in the Premier League. That touch, that turn, when he gets the ball, everything goes through him. He's pulling the strings now. He's playing with a lot of freedom. He's enjoying himself. He looks much, much happier. He looks hungry.

32:53John Obi Mikel:He wants to win. He wants to help the team play well. Everything he's doing again this season just brings you back to the field forwarding of two years ago, two seasons ago. He looks absolutely unplayable. Four goals in the last six games? Six in four. Absolutely brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. The goal against Crystal Palace as well. The turn as well. And the finish was absolutely brilliant. He looks right now that he's unplayable. You know, he's playing well. City are playing well. And it's just good to see him enjoy his game. He's playing with a lot of freedom. He looks much happier. And Pepa said it.

33:30If he is happy, his field forwarding is happy,

33:33John Obi Mikel:everything else comes. Everything else just falls in place. He looks much happier. He looks like he's enjoying himself. The team in general, everybody looks like they're hungry again to win. They're running much more. Last season, they look like they're so laggy. They couldn't run. They couldn't compete. But this season, everybody's running. They're tackling. They're fighting. And that's what Pep demands from his squad. Don't play well every game, but run. The least you can do, the least that I demand from you, is run. Fucking run. Work. Work hard. And if you look at City this season, they're running more than any other team.

34:09John Obi Mikel:I think the stats show that they run more than any other team in terms of running. And you can see that when they play. We can see that when they play. So Phil Forden is just back to his best. He's playing well. And it's also nice to see Ryan Jack. He playing well as well. He's also another one that is. He looks leaner. He looks leaner. He looks fitter. And that's what it takes to play for this Manchester City side. It's what it takes to play for Pep. You have to be fit. He does look. You have to be. Your body fat has to be in the right place. He looks leaner. He looks fitter. He's running. His pace is much more better compared to when he started.

34:44John Obi Mikel:I agree. He's a bit sluggish. He was a bit sluggish. He was a bit heavy. But now Rangieki looks like, you know, everything he's doing as well. Him and Phil in that pocket. Just City just seems like they're finding their form in the right time. And of course, who knows who's best in terms of going on a run? It's Pep Guardiola. It's City. It's City and Pep Guardiola. They are the best in terms of going on a 10, 15 games run after beating. and going on to win the Premier League. But the question is, can this new city side do it? When you have Arsenal, you know, the best team right now, you have Villa right now, the best team right now in the Premier League, Arsenal, the best squad, are they capable of going on that 10-15 run in terms of winning those games and going on to win the Premier League?

35:30John Obi Mikel:I don't think this city side has that mentality. I don't think they have that squad to go on that little run that they usually do. but I think there's something there bubbling that Pep can see you can see in his demeanor right now the way he speaks there's something he's happy but calm happy there's something that he's hiding under his sleeves that he's not bringing out his demeanor is more calmer compared to last season where he was scratching his head trying to draw blood out of his head and everything was just going against him last season everyone was going against him but this season I think he's found the way of most importantly dealing with the media because last season he lost it.

36:10John Obi Mikel:When you've not been in that position of losing, which he's not been, Pep has not, he wasn't used to it. He struggled to manage. He struggled to handle that. It was so difficult for him to manage that situation last season where they were losing games. He couldn't find a solution. He came out in the press and he was just all over the place. He was all over the gaff. So this season, he's found a way not only dealing with the media, but also dealing with the players, the squad, in terms of when they lose a game or draw a game, they bounce back pretty quickly. He doesn't want to get caught up in that one game, two game, losing streak.

36:48John Obi Mikel:No. Lose a game, draw a game, but next game, you have to make sure you win again. Get yourself back in that title contention. And that's something that this city side are doing really well this season. We spoke about it earlier on. I mean, a lot of change at that football club. There's been a churn of players. Pep Linders is now in as his number two. Colo Torre is in as a key member of that backroom staff as well. So new faces off the pitch. Pep Linders, from my understanding, has a big say in how City set up and how they go about. So it was always going to take them a bit of time to get to where they're at.

37:20But there is that sign, to your point, John, that something is bubbling. Something is bubbling.

37:24John Obi Mikel:And credit to Pep. Fair play to Pep. A manager as successful as Pep Guardiola is can easily say, you know what? Fuck off. I don't need to learn from anyone. Why are you bringing Pep Lindes? What am I going to learn from him? I'm Pep Guardiola. I'm the best. I'm the greatest manager ever. He can easily say that. And he's under right to say that. Fair play to the man. He say, you know what? I can always improve. I can always learn. I can always get better. How do I get better? How do I improve? How do I get my team back to winning ways? And he's brought in Pep Lindes. to come and help him. Call the Tori as well to come and help him.

38:00It's true.

38:01John Obi Mikel:A leader is not somebody that's always saying, I'm right. It's all about me. A leader is somebody can say, you know what? I can learn from anyone. I can always improve. There's always room for me to improve and get better. And that's what Pep has done this season. Brought in people that can help him. And you can see that that's something. You can see that the team is not only playing the Pep way, but also there's a little bit of change the way they play. They're a bit more in transition now. They're quicker to go on the goal. They're quick in transition. And that's something you can see that's come from Pep Lindes as well.

38:34It is, from Liverpool.

38:36John Obi Mikel:From Liverpool. So it's good to see that. A manager as good as Pep Guardiola can always say, you know what? I want to learn. I want to get better. Give me all the information you have. I want to soak it in. I want to get better. Yes, I've won what? 50 trophies or whatever he's won? So what was he won? Close to that. but he still wants to improve. He still wants to let. And it's good to see that. And I love to see that. And that's what leaders are made of. He is a very good leader. One man who's been questioned for his leadership over the last week. All calm on the Western front a little bit. Mo Salah brought back in, came off the bench at the weekend.

39:132-0 win from Liverpool over Brighton. Smiles, a little bit of a wave to the Kop. Of course, still speculation. Is his Liverpool career over? Is it not? A man that you know well, John. You were mates with him. when he played at Chelsea.

39:26John Obi Mikel:I think before we talk about Mo Salah, I just want to, you know, talk about Aston Villa. Okay, Morgan Rogers. I want to talk about Aston Villa. And I want to talk about Una Emery. When you talk about, again, about an experienced manager, a manager that knows how to win European football, a manager that knows how to manage his players, an experienced manager, Una Emery has done it all. Four Europa Leagues? Four Europa Leagues titles. and this is why he runs, absolutely runs. From what I heard, he absolutely has a hold on that Villa, the players that goes in and comes out. He has a strong goal of everything that happens in that football club.

40:07John Obi Mikel:And you can tell. You can see that. You can see that. But credit to Una Emery, the way, and what he's done with this Villa side since he took over. Since he took over, they've been absolutely fantastic. Started the season really, really poorly. Sometimes when you have pre-season, you come back from holidays. Please. I've been there. It takes you time to get into your rhythm. But then again, like I said, we are in the business of results, performance. And the Villa fans will very quickly to criticize. Not just him, the squad, Morgan Rogers in particular. But what does the experienced manager do?

40:48John Obi Mikel:Stick with his best player. Don't throw him under the fucking bus. Don't make a scapegoat out of him. Everybody was calling for Morgan Rodgers to be dropped. Everybody was calling for Morgan Rodgers. Oh, he's been absolutely shit. Villavans know that. A top manager, an experienced manager, sticks with his top players. I see where you're going with this job. If one day they're going with this, you are going with that. You're setting this up to know this one out of the park. I'm saying it out of the park. I know what you're doing. But a top man isn't sticks with his top players. You have to. Because they've also helped you when you needed them.

41:28John Obi Mikel:You don't just throw them under the bus when something goes wrong. And Henry did that perfectly. Came out. Week in, week out. Defended Morgan Rodgers. And Oli Watkins. Week in, week out. Week in, week out. It was more Oli Watkins, right? Oli wasn't finding the name. Exactly. And there was a lot of Aston Villa fans and questions in the media. Oli Watkins. He looks a bit of a busted flush. Exactly. but he's stuck with them. But Unai Ami's stuck with them because this is how his top players, Morgan Rose and Olly Watkins, top players, you can't put them out. You can't just throw them out and say, you know what?

41:59John Obi Mikel:Oh, you're going through a sticky rough patch. Oh, now you're going to go sit down. I don't need you anymore. No. You show belief. You show loyalty to your top players because they've also helped you when you needed them. And that's what it takes for an experienced manager to manage his squad. The experienced manager to not lose his dressing room. And when you do that, you're creating chaos. You're creating chaos. When you start dropping your top players for no reason, because they're going through a sticky patch, you're creating chaos. And what we're seeing now from Morgan Rodgers, absolutely fantastic.

42:30John Obi Mikel:Not just for Villa, for England national team. Well, that was going to be a question. Not just for Villa. Would you, again? Not just for Villa. Yeah, yeah. Not just for Villa. Absolutely fantastic. Scored two goals yesterday. The second goal, what a worthy of a goal. Absolutely cracker. Fantastic goal. Playing with a smile. They signed a new contract as well. Everything just, that's what you do. Stick with them. Because they are your top players. You know, it's funny. You talk Pep Guardiola and listen, that bloke has got very little wrong. Cole Palmer through City. Yeah. Obviously, now Chelsea's main man.

43:06Yeah. Morgan Rodgers as well. Morgan Rodgers, yeah. Through City. Through City. Went to Middlesbrough. I think they played Aston Villa, didn't they, in one of the cup games. Yeah. Unai Emery went, I like him. And they got him for 15 million quid. Yeah. he healed me.

43:19John Obi Mikel:50 million quid? 50 million. Oh, that's a fucking steal, isn't it? 23 years of age. 50 million quid. And you can see Villa, they've gone on a run. They've won nine in a row in our competition. Nine in a row. Now, are you going to call them title contenders? Yes. I don't think they can go on and win it. But the way they're playing, they have this never-say-die attitude. Now they're coming from behind to win games. You know what I mean? They won against Arsenal. They beat West Ham again yesterday. they are playing well Luna Henry is getting the best out of this quarter you can see that everybody looks fitter now they're running much more you know everybody looks fitter and hungry in this Villa side and they're just going on this run and they're playing so well and it's good to see that after so much criticism that he's gone through Morgan Rogers he's absolutely back to where he belongs he's absolutely on fire he's playing with smile on his face he's scoring goals he creating chances.

44:18John Obi Mikel:And Unai Emery, I can keep saying it. Credit to this guy what he's done with this squad. Credit to him. You know, again, your manager on the touchline rubs off to the players what happens. You can see. He kicks everything on the pitch, on the touchline. He wants to be involved in it. Your players can feel that. Your players can feel that. So the attitude you put on the touchline, your players can feel it. He's done an unreal job. To where they were under Steven Gerrard, he came in, took them away from what was a relegation battle, Champions League, and of course they're now battling the top end of the pitch.

44:52Just on the subject of Morgan Rodgers, and we're going to get to Mo, see what you've done. But John, I'm going to lay out these five players, because I think you're onto something. Morgan Rodgers, Phil Foden performing the way that he is, Cole Palmer, now that he's back, fit, crucially got to stay fit, Jude Bellingham, Eberechi Eze. There are five players there, all jostling.

45:15John Obi Mikel:What a luxury of players. You know where I'm going, right? What an option. That number 10 position. I know where you're going with that. There's a possibility that Phil Foden and Cole Palmer do not get in that England team. Because right now, Morgan Rodgers is the man in possession of that number 10 jersey. And Morgan, for me, does things the other four. Don't really. It's his ability. He's a tall boy. He's a tall boy physically well. It's the way he's able to just, yeah, yeah. The way he glides past plays, yeah. Yeah. The way he glides past plays. Listen, the plays you've just mentioned there, What a luxury of players that England have in that position as a number 10.

45:51John Obi Mikel:Are you going to fit them all in? No. Can you get a couple of them to play together? Maybe. Who do you take? Who do you drop? Because for me, those players you mentioned, all four of them should be in that plane. Five players should be on that plane going to the World Cup. Who do you drop? Right now, Morgan Rogers is playing out of his skin. He goes. You think he goes? If he goes... He starts. He's the start. He's in possession of the number 10 jersey right now. I don't know. Listen, I love Morgan Rodgers. I'm a huge fan of Morgan Rodgers. He's the one in possession. But do I think Morgan Rodgers starts the first game in the World Cup?

46:28John Obi Mikel:It depends on how Jude Bellingham finishes the season. It depends on how quickly Cole Palmer can get back to his best. Phil. Phil Fordham can... Phil is playing really, really well now. But I think from the season, from last season, I think that's just probably put Phil Fielding a little bit behind of those guys. But I think he goes to the World Cup. Is he going to start games, Phil Fielding? No, I think he come off the bench. Is he? Where does he go? I think... Again, that's what I'm saying. It's mental. It's mental. Because all those players can easily fit into any squad. Any squad. They should all be in that plane going to the walk.

47:18John Obi Mikel:They should. They should be on that list. Who do you drop? Again, is that why the manager... I love Thomas Tuchel. I'm a huge fan of Thomas Tuchel. Was he trying to make his job easier by creating that problem with Jude Bellingham? I'm not saying there was a problem created. I'm just saying... He didn't help himself. Just to help himself. make the job a bit more easier for him. But, if you ask me today, in terms of form, in terms of who do I think should be in that number 10 if the World Cup starts today, right now, today. Phil or Morgan.

48:00Morgan.

48:01John Obi Mikel:In this current form right now, I will go Morgan Rogers. but we still have a long season to go. Of course we do. That's where I think Jude Bellingham comes into play. That's where I think Jude Bellingham will be the starter when the World Cup starts. I think he's that good. Jude Bellingham is that good to not start for England. He's that good. Whether you want to look at it, whichever way you want to look at it, whoever you are right now, I don't care what you think. Jude Bellingham is the poster boy right now of the English squad. I don't care what you think. He's generational, yeah. He is. He is.

48:42John Obi Mikel:He was absolutely fantastic last season. He plays for Real Madrid. When he's on form, he's on form. Let's not forget, he's just coming from a shoulder injury. Yeah, he is. He's still finding his feet. Let's not forget that. And a new position as well for Xavi. And a new position as well. Now, do you know what I'm thinking? My problem is not who plays as the number 10 for England. Wide left. My problem is Thomas Tuchel loves Harry Kane. We all love Harry Kane. Kane starts. We all absolutely love Harry Kane. You think he starts? One hundred. Last season, last year what happens? When he starts, when he plays, we all criticise Salgate, didn't we?

49:24John Obi Mikel:When he should have taken him off. When he should have hooked him off. Yeah. When he should have started. In the Euros, he wasn't fit. In the Euros. You're saying he wasn't fit. I don't think so. You're making up excuses for him now. No, he wasn't fit in that. Remember, he had the injury back end of the season. It wasn't just one game. The whole tournament he was. He should have made a decision to prove it. He should have. I'm with you now. He should have. But I'm judging him now. He's judging him now. Harry Kane is a goal again. Harry Kane. He's been absolutely on fire. Let's not make mistake about that.

49:50John Obi Mikel:In the Bundesliga, he's been on fire. He plays. He plays. I agree. He starts. But what happens when it's not going well? Because Thomas Tuchel, he also has this, he doesn't take him off. He doesn't, he rarely takes him off. Again, is that something that's coming back and bites this England team in the World Cup? A manager needs to be pragmatic. You need to be ahead of, you think about it. You have to, the World Cup is games where you have to be pragmatic. The manager has to always think. Proactive, yeah. Proactive, exactly. How do I change the games? How do I affect the games? If he's not performing, do I hook him off in the second half?

50:29John Obi Mikel:Do I give him 45 minutes? Having told my... Do I give him 60 minutes? He's got the corners to do. He's got the corners to do. But will he do it in the World Cup? Will he do it when Harry Kane is not performing? I love Harry Kane. Let's not make mistakes. I love... Absolutely. He's been fantastic. You know, his goal scoring for me is absolutely fantastic. I just think that sometimes when he starts dropping deep too much to try and do this creative... No, you're not, Harry. Get yourself in the fucking box. wait there because you have the players that will create for you. You have the Jumperlingham, the Phil Foden, the Morgan Rogers.

51:03John Obi Mikel:They're very cheesy. Saka. Saka. These are the guys that will create the chances for you. Stay there and stick the ball in the fucking net. That's your job. Don't come and be this number 10. Don't do this for England. Stay there and score goals. That's what you do. And I hope he does that in the World Cup because that's what he's good at. So, the problem for me is not really the number 10, but that is also a problem. So if you ask me today, today, if the World Cup starts today, I go Morgan Rodgers. But in the next two, three months, I just think that Jude Bellingham will play his way into that starting 11.

51:36I didn't expect us to stumble into a new debate. Of course, we've got loads of months to see how that all pans out. Elliot Anderson and Declan Rice looks like it's his midfield. Saka will start wide right. Kane starts at number nine. It's 10 and 11. That's going to be interesting

51:51John Obi Mikel:for me. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, interesting to see who starts at 9-11. Is it easy? Rashford, does Foden get placed out there? Does Cole Palmer get placed out there? You think Rashford is going to make... Yeah, he loves Rashford. He loves pace. He loves pace, yeah. And make no mistake, Rashford, he's been playing well for Barcelona. And you know who we forgot? He's been playing well for Barcelona. So he's also, if he keeps playing this well, he's earned the right to be in that squad. Rashford, he's been absolutely brilliant for Barcelona. So, yes, as he earned the right today, if the World Cup squad is announced, Rashford makes the list.

52:21John Obi Mikel:Of course he does. And the other one that does, forget them all, Mason Mount. That's your number 10 for next summer. Well, because he's Mason Mount to say night then. He's been good the last few weeks. Oh, fuck off, man. Come on, John. Credit where credit's due. In the last couple of games. Exactly. He's obviously going to build on that, but he has been very good. I think he's just way, he's way behind the rest of those five guys he's mentioned. Way, way behind. I'll have a wager with you. You have a wager with me that he goes? If he stays fit, he goes. Tuchel loves him, obviously. He does. From his time at Chelsea.

52:49John Obi Mikel:Absolutely loves him. But you can't drop these five guys he's mentioned. Because they've been absolutely fantastic. I know, I know. You can't drop Phil Ford in, Bellingham, Palmer, Ebercheese, Morgan Rogers, for Mason Mount. You're having a fucking laugh. I'm kind of winding you up a bit. But if I stay fit, you might go. Right, let's get to it. Because you set me up about 10 minutes ago. The story's moved on a lot, but I do want to get your thoughts on this fella, because you know him well. Mo Salah. And I think from what you said about Unai Emery and Morgan Rogers and Ole Watkins, I think you're about to throw Arna Sloan under the bus here, John, are you?

53:27John Obi Mikel:I'm not here to throw anyone under the bus. I just hate when a manager doesn't find a way to manage and deal with the situation the right way that it should be dealt with in terms of your big players. There's a reason why they're big players. There's a reason why he's on, what, 400 ,000 a week? Because he's done it. Because he's done it. Because he's your fucking record breaker, isn't he? 190 Premier League players. 190 Premier League goals, 90 assists. Well done. Incredible. Liverpool hasn't won a trophy war for over 20 years or something. When they won the Premier League in 2020, they hadn't won it since, yeah, Kenny Douglas 90.

54:06Yeah.

54:07John Obi Mikel:Before who rocked up? Mo Salah. And Jurgen Klopp. And Jurgen Klopp. That's when the trophy cabinet of Liverpool, which has been dusty for a very long time. From a league perspective. From a league perspective, exactly. Exactly. They started winning stuff. So for me, do I criticize Anas Lowe? Yes, a little bit because of the way he dealt with the situation. Mo Salah, with what he's done for this Liverpool team, has ended the right to say, you know what? I've ended the right to come out and say, I want to play football. The kid has just come out and said, you know what? I want to play football. I want to be on the pitch.

54:50that's all he's come out and say well but do i condo what he's done has he had the right to do

54:57John Obi Mikel:what he's done and come out and say i want to play football yes he's had the right to come out and say in this liverpool side yes i want to play football but for me is the wording of how what he said and the way he said it if he's come out and say you know what i want to play football i deserve to be on that pitch i don't think anyone is probably going to question me law I agree. But it's the wording of what he said and how he said it. But to me, more silence and the right to come out in this Liverpool team and say, I deserve and I want to be on the pitch. I want to help. I know we're going through a sticky patch.

55:31John Obi Mikel:I want to be that guy. I've always been that guy who wins those games. I've always been that guy who scores the goals, credit chances. I want to be on the pitch. I want to help us through this rough patch that we're in because I know I can do it. I've done it so many times. I've won you so many trophies. In the past nine, ten years since he's been at the football club. He's won Champions League, he's won Champions League, two Premier League titles. FA Cup. FA Cup. League Cup, I think. Many trophies. And Liverpool haven't done that for over 20 years until he showed up. So for me, he's ended right to come out and say, I want to play.

56:05John Obi Mikel:This is a guy that can easily say, you know what? I don't give a shit. At the end of the month, you pay me my, every week, you pay me my$400 ,000. I can just easily sit there and say, you know what? I take the money. I've done what I have to done. I'm Mo Salah. I've broken all the record. He can easily sit there and say, you know what? I'm here for the paycheck. I've signed two years contract. I'm just going to see whether I play or I don't play. I don't give a shit. You're still going to pay me. Credit to the kid. He wants to play football. He wants to help this Liverpool team come out of that sticky patch.

56:33John Obi Mikel:And for people to criticize him for coming out and saying that, it's absolutely ridiculous. But John, there's a lot more than that. Because one of the criticisms that I would have of him, and I've interviewed Mo I like him. I'm a Man United fan, but I do like him for what it's worth. Ultimately though, so he is a talismanic figure. He's become a leader of that football club. Where I would argue, where is he four or five weeks ago though, John? Where is he when Virgil's fronting up to the cameras and Curtis Jones is having to front up to the cameras? Why is Mo not one of those? That is the thing though.

57:05John Obi Mikel:That's another thing. That's another thing with Mo. Listen, Mo is an emotional guy. Yeah, he is. Mo is an emotional kid. I know Mo very, very well. At our time at Chelsea, I was very close to Mo. We were close. I know Mo. Mo is a very, very emotional guy. I told you, I've told you the story where Mourinho criticized him in the first half, took him off, and he was... He was... Too strong. Crying. Mo is an emotional kid. He loves to play football. You can't knock him for that. You can't knock him for that. You can't. He's an emotional guy. And sometimes emotions can run high. Emotions can take over.

57:45John Obi Mikel:And that's what I think has happened here. He was emotional. He became emotional off the situation. You can point out, yes, where's Mo Salah? And people have said it. The only time he's come out and given an interview, first is when he was talking about his contract. Yes. Yes. And second is now when he wasn't playing. I can understand all that. And I can also criticize him for that. Yeah. Because as the top player, as the big dog, when it's not going well, you have to come out and face those cameras. Week in, week out, you have to say something. Don't always say it when it's not going well for you.

58:24John Obi Mikel:That I get it. That I understand. But I'm talking about right now, the situation of what's happened. He's had the right to say, I want to play football. And I've had the right in this football club to be on the pitch. He wasn't the only one that wasn't playing well. The whole player, the whole team were absolutely shit. The team were bad. And I can tell you right now, the worst player this season in that score is Van Dijk. He's making way too many mistakes. He's not closing people down. The only thing that he was, we can talk about Van Dijk is his pace and his defending abilities. This season, he's lost it all.

59:10John Obi Mikel:Players can get the joy out of him right now when they take him on. He's not closing people down. You know, he throws his arm around when they consider goal. He's blaming Kirkus. He's blaming Freeponks. Young defenders are just coming to the football club that you should be helping them to settle in. Throws his arm around all the time they consider goal. Comes out and says, oh yeah, we're not good enough today. No, Oh, the book starts from you, mate. You're the fucking captain. You're the leader. But, but. I know he comes out, and I know he does come out and speak for the press. Yes. But again, he was asked the question.

59:49John Obi Mikel:How, what do you see with the situation going on? He was asked. I saw it. I watched it. As a leader, your first answer should be, yes, I don't like what's going on. We all don't like what's going on. This club is bigger than anyone, which I agree, an individual. But we have to find a way of sorting it out. Mo Salah is an incredible player for this football club. He's a huge figure at this football club. But this is a Liverpool football club. This is a massive, massive football club. We need to find a way of making sure we sort this out. Because this is dragging out in the public, which it shouldn't be.

1:00:27John Obi Mikel:We will find a way behind closed doors and sort it out. But I listened to Jojo van Dijk. when asked this question. His answer was like, with a smirk on his face, when Fitch are not going well, your best player is being frozen out. The club is all over the media for the wrong reasons, negative reasons. I'm not the decision maker. It's between Moore and the club. Yeah, I'd agree. You can't say that. You can't say that. Yes, we all know you're not the decision maker, but your answer should be, as the leader of this football club, as the captain, I can play a massive part. I can play a massive role in trying to set this out.

1:01:09John Obi Mikel:Whichever way he's going to go, I will have a chat with Mo. I'll have a chat with the club. And we can find a solution to this and end it. I'm not going to say he's going to determine if Mo is going to come back to this quarter now. But find a way of signing out. Because Liverpool Football Club is so big that it shouldn't be drafted the way it's been drafted for the past couple of weeks. And Mo Salah as well. but Mo's put it in the public domain. I know Mo has, but that's what I'm saying. As a captain. Yeah, he could do more. Again, I know I go back to the captain that I played under. JT would have - He's a captain.

1:01:44John Obi Mikel:He's a leader for the people. Yeah. You're not a leader for yourself. Because I'm playing. Because I'm the squad. Because I'm on the pitch. I don't care what's happening with them all. Because that's the way it sounded. With a smirk on his face. Yeah. That's the way it sounded. JT would have been, you know what? This is Didier Drogba. This is Frank Lampard. Players who's giving it all to this football club. Players who've shed blood and tears to this football club. And they don't deserve to be treated. They don't deserve their name to be dragged this way. Yes, no player is bigger than a football club.

1:02:19John Obi Mikel:No player. And I absolutely believe that. But as the leader, as the captain, I will find a way of playing my part to making sure we sort this out. I will do that. Because that's why I'm the leader of this football club. I didn't hear that from Jojo Van Dyke that day. But yesterday, he kind of retracted. He did. which is what he should have said the first time. Which is what he should have said the first time. So for me, this whole situation of Mo Salah, again, as a manager, I come back to the manager. If the club is struggling, if the team is struggling, you're trying to find a different system to play.

1:02:57John Obi Mikel:That's what he's... That's what the excuse was, right? He's mixing and matching. He's mixing and matching, yeah. You have three, four, five games to play before Mo Salah fucks off to African Cup of Nations. Why not fucking wait? Well. Why not wait? Those two, three, four games, it's not going to put you back into tight content because you're so far away. No, but John, Arna's job is on the line at this point. His job is on the line. He won the Premier League last season. He's not going to get sacked. Liverpool Football Club is not a club that sacks. The man is a pretty quick one. But if they lost to West Ham, so what's he not lost when Mo was dropped?

1:03:31John Obi Mikel:If they had lost to West Ham, Sunderland... Did you win those games? He won. Did they win those games? He won at West Ham. He drew with Sunderland. You drew Sunderland, you drew against Leeds. Yes. So if you left Mo Salah out and you're winning those games, you're blowing teams away, three, four, five nils, Mo Salah will not fucking complain. It's true. But you're drawing against Sunderland, against Leeds, and you have your record breaker, your best player on the bench. That's fair. Three games in a row. There's no fucking excuse for that. There is no excuse for that. you have to you had him against the game against Leeds for 19 minutes you drew and you didn't bring him on but there is something wrong it looked like somebody wants him out because you have to win that game against Leeds if you want to win the game you have to bring Mo Salah on you're winning 2-0 they get it back to 2-2 right at that point yes you could it doesn't matter you have to bring him on they go I can't believe I'm sounding like a Liverpool and aren't a slot fan here I'm playing devil's advocate but they went 3-2 up and they concede a last minute equaliser.

1:04:36John Obi Mikel:You have to bring him on. You're not blowing teams away, having Mo Salah on the bench. If you were doing that, then Mo Salah wouldn't complain. I wouldn't be sitting here saying he should be back on it. Because you didn't win against Sunderland. You didn't win against Leeds. You luckily won against Inter Milan where you got a penalty. That wasn't a penalty. It was. I don't know. But they were good. They were very good. It doesn't matter. I know it was a penalty. Football is about winning games. But to the point though, before he was dropped, they weren't winning games, John. So he was in the team, not winning games.

1:05:06I get it. But then why come for Mo Salah?

1:05:09John Obi Mikel:Cody Karkpo is not playing well. So why do you, why do you take up Mo Salah and leave Cody Karkpo on the pitch? Why? Why do you do that? You've dropped Kerkhez. You've dropped Alexis McAllister. You've dropped Florian Verts. Ultimately, and I'm no manager, which is why there'll be people screaming at this episode maybe right now. But I get all of what Mo has done. But equally, I can also see the viewpoint of Arna that it's my job. It's my head that's on the line. I'm trying to find a way right now. No, the problem with Arna Schlau is, I've said it so many times here, he came to this football club, Liverpool Football Club, and inherited a very, very good squad.

1:05:49John Obi Mikel:He did. A very, very Jurgen Klopp squad. That's what he inherited. And he went on to win the league with the squad last season. This season, Anish Law has done his signings. He's brought in his own players. He's finding it very difficult to get the best out of the players that he's brought in. He spent an awful lot of money. An awful lot of money. Almost 500 million credit. And he still hasn't got those players to be playing well. Not yet. That is his frustration. Yes. Because he can't get the best out of the players that he's brought in. He's led, arguably, one of the best right back leave the football club.

1:06:30John Obi Mikel:People talk about Mo Salah not defending. That's the excuse. Mo Salah never defended. We know that. That's not an excuse. Yeah, it's not like... It's not an excuse. It's true. That is not an excuse. He never did. Jürgen always found a way to give him the freedom. To mask that. Exactly. Yeah, that's true. That's not an excuse. You said Mo Salah never defended. We all know he never defended. That's true. I'll give you that. That hasn't... It's not like dropped off. Exactly. But what he does is to score you goals, create you chances, and win you games. And that's what he's not done. And that's what he's not done because the manager is asking him to do what he's not used to doing, which is defend.

1:07:10John Obi Mikel:Because Liverpool Football Club right now, when you watch them play, they don't have Trent Alexander-Arnold anymore that will take that ball and put it where Mo Salah wants it. Put it wherever he wants it. They don't have that anymore. No. So they are struggling in terms of going forward. And that's why they want Mo Salah, because they don't have the ball as much as they used to. So now, the problem is Mo Salah, because he's not defending. Because they don't have the ball anymore. Now, the teams have the ball when they play against Liverpool. So they struggle. And defensively, they're not strong enough.

1:07:45John Obi Mikel:They're not, you know, Kyrkos is not defending well. Fringham has been injured. So the only player that has earned the right to say, we can week out, I will be in that tightness level, is Sobo Slice. For his performances. For his performances. Sobo Slice. Yeah. That's it. Everybody else, including Mo, has not been performing. So for me, you cannot drop your best player. We've seen, especially if it's a legend of the football club, Mo Salah is a legend of that football club. Man management is so important. Do not lose the dressing room. When you lose the dressing room, when you start having problems, when you start creating chaos with your top players, you automatically lose the dressing room.

1:08:25John Obi Mikel:because their figure, their presence, when they're not happy, it robs off everybody else. Pep Guardiola knows that. Last season when he was trying to move Kevin De Bruyne on, played him very well, top player, fantastic player, legendary football player. He didn't force him out. He wants him out, but he didn't force him out. But there were games he was on the bench. It was games he was on the bench, but he came on. He started. He came on. He didn't leave him for two, three games. No. this is a player that has done so much to the football club. I believe no player is bigger than a football club.

1:09:01John Obi Mikel:If Messi has to leave Barcelona, then there's no fucking player bigger than a football club. That's true. I'll give you that. Then there is none. So for me, Ancelor and Liverpool, they always find a way of messing things up, situations. They did that with a contract of the players running down. They left it at the last minute. It became a shitshow. A chaos. They left Mo Salah, Jojo Van Dijk, and Trent, which eventually they lost Trent. They made a whole mess out of that situation. They did. And now, again, they're making some mess. I'm saying, yes, those two, three, four, five games, Mo Salah is going to go to the African Cup of Nations anyways.

1:09:46John Obi Mikel:He's going to be away from the club for a month. Whatever you want to do, whatever systems you want to cook up, do it when he's away. And then when he comes back, you say, oh yeah, we're winning. We're winning games since you left. It's going to be difficult for you to get back in the squad. Then, Moussa, I can understand. Everybody else can understand. I will understand. But my question is, you left him three games in a row. You didn't blow teams away in those games. You drew both of the Premier League games. Yes, you beat Inter Milan. And you leave your record breaker on the bench. Do I condone what he's come out and done the way he's done it, the wording of what he's saying with the manager that we're not friends anymore, blah, blah, blah.

1:10:28John Obi Mikel:But I believe that Mo Salah has end the right to come out and say, I deserve to play. I deserve to be on the pitch. Not for three games in a row. You can't bench him for three games in a row. One game, yes. Next game, bring him on. Not three games in a row. Any player will be, any player will be frustrated and angry. I get that. Especially Especially if he's a top player that has done so much, that has won so much for the football club. I talk, I see ex-players going on about Mo Salah, criticizing him about his ego. English players. And they are the egoistic players. All of them. Yeah, you always had his ability, right?

1:11:14John Obi Mikel:If they were not playing, they will do the same. They will come out. I know DJ Drogba. You can't leave DJ Drogba three games in a row. No chance. No fucking way you leave DJ Drogba on the bench three games. It does not happen. Or Frank Lampard. It doesn't happen. And we're not winning those games. Then tell me what is the reason for leaving them out? What is the reason? There's no reason. Because there are the players that win those games. You have to bring them out. I'm still laughing at this idea that in your utopian world, you let them go to the African Cup of Nations, you win games, and then he'd be more accepting of it.

1:11:51You know Mo, Mo would still not accept it. But then he wouldn't have that much excuse.

1:11:57John Obi Mikel:Then he wouldn't have that much excuse because the team is winning, the team is in a good rhythm. You can't just bring him back on to the squad. You can't just bring him back into the squad. He will know. He will be there in the African position and see what's going on and thinking, fucking hell, they're blowing teams away without me. It's going to be difficult for me to get back into the squad, into this team. He knows that. But does, John, because the air that moved... I think he will accept it a bit more. I think he will accept it a bit more. And whichever way people will look at it, you will give more credit will be on Anastasia.

1:12:29John Obi Mikel:Right now, I criticize the manager a little bit for doing it the way he's done it and when he's done it. Because for me, a player like Mo Salah should not be on the bench three games in a row when you're not blowing teams away and when you're not winning those games. It does not add up. It does not make sense. It looks like somebody wants him out. And that's exactly what he said. And he's had the right to say that. He's had the right to say that, that I want to be on the pitch. He's earning almost$400 ,000 a week. He can easily sit his ass down and say, you know what? Pay me my money. I don't give a shit.

1:13:06John Obi Mikel:I'm 33 years old. I'm going to leave the club in two years or in one season. I'll leave. But he still wants to play. He still wants to help this football club. So that part, I will give him absolutely credit. But Dwight Kondo, when he's done the wording of what he said, no. Has he earned the right to come out in the public and say, I want to be on the pitch. I've earned the right to deserve to be on the pitch to help this football club come out of this patch that we're in, this difficult patch that we're in. I think he's earned that right. Let's see how it all pans out. Obviously, Mo, after that win over Brighton, he did give a little wave to the Kop.

1:13:44John Obi Mikel:And then again, yes, when I see, you know, somebody that I don't want to mention his name, I don't think I have the time and energy for him, but I'll just, you know, somebody, you'll know exactly who I'm talking about, to always, always, for some reason, criticize African football and African players. We are talking about Liverpool here. We are talking about the Premier League. And you have somebody sit there in the studio criticizing Mo Salah and saying Egypt is the most successful African country in terms of winning the African Nations. Yes, they are. And saying Mo Salah has never won the African Nations.

1:14:36John Obi Mikel:That's a failure. Criticizing him. He's qualified for two World Cups, though. He's qualified for two World Cups, but he hasn't won the African Nations. What's that got to do with the Premier League? What's that got to do with what we're talking about? For some reason, this person always finds a way of criticizing African football or African players. And every time he talks about Mo Salah, there's always this tone of jealousy, anger, bitterness in his voice. always has something against Mo Salah, has something against African football. For some reason, things that African football or African players do not deserve to be in the highest stage of world football.

1:15:20John Obi Mikel:We not deserve to be mentioned in the top world football. For some reason, I watch him, the tone in his face, in his voice, his face, the demeanor, when he talks about Mo Salah, when he talks about African football. We're talking about the Premier League here. Why do you mention that Mo Salah is a failure? He hasn't won the African combination with Egypt, the most successful African combination country. Why do you talk about Mo Salah being a failure at Chelsea? It's not, it's... It has nothing to do with that. It's not relevant. Who's who he's become today? It's irrelevant of who he's become today.

1:16:00John Obi Mikel:People fail. It's about how you get the fuck up. And look what he's done for a little bit. And look what he's done. Since he failed at Chelsea, built his career, went away, improved in himself, his physique, his ability, what he has to do to become the top, top footballer that he is today. Come back stronger. It's not about how you fall. It's how you get up. And you talk about failure at Chelsea. People, you have to fail so many times to succeed. Yeah. You have to constantly fail. And Bo Salah at Chelsea, I can have an excuse for him. He did not have that constant failure at Chelsea. He wasn't playing week in, week out to fail and fail and fail, to get better and better and better.

1:16:59John Obi Mikel:He fails. he's out of the team for two, three, four games. That's what happened to him at Chelsea. He was young. Young players have to fail. You have to give them the opportunity to fail and fail and fail. That's how they get better. That's how young players develop. And it's through those failures that you now get the Mo Salah. That you create something special. And that's what we're seeing today with Mo Salah. So instead of using it as a tool to batter him, to actually say those failures. Give him the credit. Yeah, yeah. That's a fair point. Not a failure. What Mo Salah went through at Chelsea, not a failure.

1:17:39John Obi Mikel:If he succeeded at Chelsea or if he was a so-so player at Chelsea, if he made it, he would have just been there. Just that ordinary player. But that failure is what has spurred him on and he's went away, gone to Italy and built himself to the monster that he is today. And you are right. to the player that he is today. 190 goals for Liverpool. 90 assists. Two Premier League titles. One Champions League. That's what failure gives you. You have to fail. There is no problem with failing. When you fail, you learn more from failing. You get better from failing. It's how you get up when you fall, when you're down there.

1:18:22John Obi Mikel:And Mo Salah did it at Chelsea. But he got up. He became stronger. He became a better player. and that's what we see into that Liverpool. So for somebody to criticize a young player at his early stages, to call that a failure, and that is coming from somebody that never won anything near where Mo Salahs won, did not win the Premier League, did not win anything with his national team, abandoned his national team, honestly, because he wasn't playing. He's a player that abandoned his national team that because he wasn't playing. Say, I want to spend time with my family. And that you are the player that's criticizing somebody for speaking out that he wants to play.

1:19:09John Obi Mikel:But you retired because you were not playing. You quit because you were not playing. Mo Salah doesn't want to quit when it's tough, when it's difficult. He wants to play. He wants to be there. Get the team out of this sticky patch. help the team get the team back to where it should belong that's what you call a true leader a true champion somebody who wants to be there when it's tough when it's difficult you don't quit and then you call this person a failure for me absolutely nonsense and i'm sick and tired of listening to this guy and i don't want to give him the time and air of anything because he sounds like a loose cannon now.

1:19:53John Obi Mikel:He just goes on and waffles whatever he wants to waffle that comes out of his mouth. Absolutely nonsense. Absolutely nonsense. Do I condone what Mo Salah did? Not all of it. Does he end? Has he ended right to say, I want to play football? Yes, he's ended right. This Liverpool football team, he's ended right. When he leaves, you can, like I said, cook up whatever system you want to cook up. And when he comes back, you can tell him more. We've been winning one year away. And right now, it's difficult for me to put you back in the team. He can understand that. And you can't put him away, put him in the squad, put him on the bench for three games in a row.

1:20:33John Obi Mikel:For me, that's just nonsense. Listening to you there, very impassioned, John. A lot of good points raised. Listening to you there, all Liverpool fans should be sending a letter of thanks to Jose Mourinho. Because you are right. The failures and failures, that does build you as a character. It builds you. It builds you as a footballer. Speaking of Mo, and I'm conscious of time, John, but African Cup of Nations, it's on the horizon. Mo will be with the Pharaohs of Egypt, trying to win it yet again. Your beloved Nigeria as well. How do you see this African Cup of Nations? Will you be watching? You, of course, you'll be watching.

1:21:10Turkey, glass of red wine, African Cup of Nations.

1:21:14John Obi Mikel:Well, it depends how you look at it. Now, if you look at, if you read what's going on in the press and how we are building up to this major tournament, it seems to me like a shit show. It seems to me like a shit show. You cannot have your own captain, your leader. Is this Nigeria you're talking about? Yes. Retire. Two weeks, three weeks leading up to the tournament. A major, major tournament. You cannot have that happen. There is something that's going on there that is not being made public right now. Nobody knows what's going on. I think there's something because I know Ekron really, really well.

1:21:55John Obi Mikel:I know Trost Ekron really well. He's not the sort of guy that quits. He's not the sort of kid that quits. I know him. He's a very passionate guy. He loves his country. I was there when the young Ekron came into the football, coming to the team, national team, how passionate he is. And I still believe he's very, very passionate. For him to quit, retire three weeks before the tournament, there's something that's not adding up. There's absolutely something that's not adding up. Even if it's not a starter anymore, even if it's not playing anymore. But as a leader that I know, the person that I know, he's not a selfish guy.

1:22:34John Obi Mikel:He's not a guy that thinks, oh, I want to be on the pitch. I have to play to be on the squad. No, I believe he's a leader that offers his experience to the young squad, always there talking to the young players and giving his vital opinions on how the team should play and what should happen in the team. So for me, for him to quit, I smelled something there. And again, I don't know how true this is. The managers come out and say he's not been paid three, four, five months salary or whatever it is. Building up to a shit show. This is something you don't want to let your other country, the fellow country, the other teams in the African nation know there's something going on.

1:23:19John Obi Mikel:You want to go into that tournament with positivity, with good vibes. Yeah, of course. With the manager being happy. You don't want to be owing the manager. Again, this is what I talk about so many times. They have, they know this board, this NFF board. They know how to screw everything up. They know. And this is exactly what they did during the qualifiers of the World Cup. It was a shit show. It was an absolute shit show. The bonuses were not paid. Everything that was just going on was just absolutely detrimental. Detrimental to the team. Yeah. The negativity that you don't need always going into tournaments.

1:24:01John Obi Mikel:You don't need this. You don't need them. This is where you have to make sure that the manager's being paid. The manager is happy, selecting his players, getting ready, preparing the team for this major, major tournament. Because you guys have absolutely fucked up. You didn't qualify for the World Cup. They should have learned from their lessons. No, what are they doing? They're fucking it up even more. Stumbling and bumbling their way as they go. Only, only Nigeria will do that. You don't learn from your mistakes. You don't learn from your mistakes. We failed to qualify for the World Cup, and now you have your captain quit, retire, and now you're owning the manager.

1:24:42John Obi Mikel:It's just so many negativity that we don't need. Detrimental leading up to this massive tournament that we have to win, knowing that we've just failed to qualify for the World Cup twice in a row, which was a fucking shit show. You're thinking they will learn. They will be like, we have to pay the manager now. We have to sort everything out. No more negativity. Let's go to this tournament hoping that we can go there and do well and win. Maybe save a bit of credibility. Yeah, face. Face for not qualifying. No, there's no shame in their face, this NFF. No shame. Absolutely no shame. Zero. The corruption has eaten them up so much.

1:25:24John Obi Mikel:They don't care. That they don't give a shit. And that's why I keep saying they have to go. if nigerian football have to go forward they have to go it's insane it's madness it's crazy that we are killing the talent the potentials that we have in this country just because of pure greed from people that don't want to do the right thing that don't want to get football back to where it should be, that have absolutely zero idea of how to treat players, of how to grow the football in our country. It's a shame to see that we're wasting talent. The academies are not run properly. The youth have absolutely zero idea where to go.

1:26:18John Obi Mikel:No zero direction. and we're still stumbling even more and more. Nothing seems to be going well. I tell you, John, it could be worse. You could be Cameroon picking two squads and all that's going on there with Samuel E2 and the battle with Marcel Bryce, the boss there. I mean, there is a couple of nations that are in disarray. But to your point, Nigeria are one of those. You look at your three games in the group, you'd expect you, despite all of that, I looked at the squad. You've got Tanzania, you've got Tunisia and Uganda. You should be coming through. We should be. Should be. When the World Cup qualifiers, we failed to beat Lesotho.

1:27:02John Obi Mikel:Lesotho. I don't like, again, I don't like disrespecting any country because I think every country does have the right to say they are the best. But if you fail, I played for the national team for so many years. I never had the, I never played against Lesotho for some reason. Yeah, but that's a team we should be beating. We should be beating because we are Nigeria. But again, you've just mentioned this group here. It's a group that we should come out of pretty comfortably. But are we going to do it? That's the question. There's always a question mark, isn't it? Like, you know, I saw the squad.

1:27:43John Obi Mikel:Not trying to be disrespectful to anyone. Some of the players, I have absolutely zero idea who they are. and that just tells you where we are. As a nation, as a country, our football, because I don't think the right players have been selected from what I hear. I think the manager doesn't have the full authority to select who he wants. I think there's been a lot of influence to his selection. I remember the late Stephen Keshi when he wanted to make his World Cup selection called me up and said Mikael I want to make the squad but these fuckers keep calling me trying to influence my decisions and saying I have to pick this place I have to pick that place at.

1:28:44John Obi Mikel:But you know me, Mikel. I will not do what's not right. I will always do what's right. And I will pick the place that I think deserves and will go and help this country achieve something in the World Cup or do well in the World Cup. So I'm just calling you to let you know that this is what I'm going through. They are trying to influence me. They're telling me if I don't pick this player or that player, I'm going to be fired. Conversation. I can never forget that day. Never. Early in the morning, I was about to go to training in London. Is he asking for your advice? He's asking me to be with him because he knows that I'm also very influential in that team with the hierarchies.

1:29:36I was.

1:29:39John Obi Mikel:Talk about fighting for players, bonuses. Talk about going above the president of the NFF to get the bonuses, which is what I did a couple of times during the World Cup, where the money that we owed leading up to the World Cup, you get this parachute money from FIFA, that the money should be shared to the players. So what the nations do, the countries do, is that they go out there and they borrow money from whoever, sponsors or whatever. And they give that money to the players just for the players to be happy and get ready, prepare, no issues before the World Cup, before the tournament. That's what's been done for so many years.

1:30:29John Obi Mikel:And of course, they'll get that money back from FIFA and they will give that money back to the sponsors. So we've been asking for this money for so many, for months leading up to the tournament. They keep telling me, oh, Mikel, yeah, don't worry. The money will be sorted when you guys come to the camp. I said, OK, no problem. All right, if you make sure that money is going to be there, because the players are asking me about these bonuses, I have to make sure that these bonuses are there when we arrive. They said, no issues. It's going to be there. I said, OK, no problem. Got to the camp, spoke to the secretary of the team, the president.

1:30:59John Obi Mikel:Where is the money? The players are asking for it. This is the money, the qualification before the World Cup. Oh, no, Mikel, don't worry. We'll start it out. We'll start it out. Don't worry about that. We'll start it out. a week goes by. Players asking me, Mikel, we need this money. We need to get it because once the World Cup is done, we don't know if we're going to get this money because we don't know if we're going to be back in the Nationals team again set up. Fair play to the kid. Guys, exactly what you never know. So I've been asking for this money. No money coming. Nothing is happening.

1:31:33John Obi Mikel:So luckily enough, I had the late Chief of Staff to Buhari who passed away. Abakiari. I had his phone number. Very close friend of mine. We're speaking very well. Next to Buhari. Very close to Buhari. Called him up. I said, listen, Mr. Chief of Staff, we have an issue here in the national team where we need this money. I need this money to settle my players because they need this money. Everybody needs to be comfortable because this is what's been promised and we need this money. He said, really? Is that what's going on? He said, leading up to this massive tournament? I said, yes, this is what's been happening.

1:32:13John Obi Mikel:You know, we need this money. He said, okay, okay. No, Mikael, no problem. No problem. No problem. He spoke to me in native language, Hausa, which I understand really well. He said, no problem. 24 hours. 24 hours. Later. Private plane. Money, bang. At the hotel. Hand-to-hand delivery, millions of dollars. Took the money, gave it to the secretary, said, hold this money. Make sure this money doesn't go to the president or any whoever it is. I don't want to leave it in my room. Of the NFF. Of the NFF. He held the money. And then after training a day, he calculated everybody who participated in the qualifiers, how much you deserve, how much you're going to get.

1:33:02John Obi Mikel:Everybody was sharing the money accordingly. Everybody got their money. And then a day or two after that, the president of the NFF came to the camp. And of course, called me up to his room. After training, I got a knock on my door. I said, the president of the NFF wants to see you. I said, sure, no problem. And did you know what's coming? I know exactly what's coming. So I took a shower, went in there, got dressed, went in there. Walked into the room. The whole fucking cabal was sitting there.

1:33:38John Obi Mikel:I was to sit there for me, I sat. I know them. I wasn't scared of them. Oh, Miguel. Why did you do this? What you've done is not nice. It's not good. You shouldn't do this. You've made us look like idiots, like we don't know what we're doing. This is so disrespectful. You made us look like we don't know our job, blah, blah, blah. I said, are you serious? I've been asking you for this. For months and months, and you know this is what is owed to this place. This is what is owed to this place. This place needs this money. I asked you so many times. I gave you the benefit of doubt. I respected you.

1:34:19John Obi Mikel:I didn't want to go above you, which I could from the start. But I gave you the benefit of doubt. You do it. It's your job. But when you fail to do it, I had to take the responsibility. Because my place needs the fucking money. Of course they do. It's money that's owed. It's money that's owed. Oh, yeah, Mikhail, but this is not right. You should always work with me because, you know, when you work with me, blah, blah, blah. I said, Mr. President, no disrespect, please. This is what I've asked you so many times. You promised me. And when you fail, I had to go and do it myself. These are things you have to go through.

1:34:58John Obi Mikel:These are things you have to fight. They're the things we don't see. You don't see. Nobody talk about them. And this story, I never told anybody, but my players know what I did for them. You have to make your players comfortable, fight for them, and make sure that they're comfortable. The camp is running smoothly. Everybody's happy. Players are sending money. The local players had money to send back to their family. And to be clear, this isn't just money that's available. This is what's owed. This is what is owed. the money that was owed from playing the qualification to the World Cup. So FIFA gives you a little bit of that parachute money before the World Cup starts.

1:35:37John Obi Mikel:And that's what I was asking for. And they've been giving me stories upon stories upon stories. So it just shows you the level of corruption. Or sometimes they don't even, the presidency or the people don't even listen to them because they know they're so corrupt that when they hand them over that money, that money doesn't go to where it should go to. That's why when I made that phone call, he said to me, Mikael, don't worry, relax. 28, 48 hours, money, bang. Bang. Sorted the whole issue out. But still, they were upset that I went above them. How did the meeting end in there? I sat there, they gave me all the spit, they said everything they had to say.

1:36:24John Obi Mikel:Oh, yeah, yeah. They shouted, they screamed, the whole cabal. And I was just there listening to them. I said, what I said is, I respected you guys. I gave you guys the benefit of doubt. I didn't go above you the first time, which I could, but I respected you and you failed to deliver, which you've done so many times. And I know now I have the right channel. I can go through the right channel and I can get whatever I want for my players. I'm not asking for a handout. I'm asking for what's due for my players. And that's all. Right. I'm conscious of time, John. People have either logged off or they're absolutely elevated to this.

1:37:02One man I know is going to be sending you a Christmas card this year is Mo Salah. After that, John.

1:37:07John Obi Mikel:Passionate stuff. And I tell you what, I thought you made... Mo is an emotional guy. And sometimes, yeah, he did what he did. He's a very emotional guy. Lovely, lovely guy. The Mo Salah that I know. And I'm happy that he's sort of, sort of sorted out. He's back in the team. And what did he do? Another assist. 2-0, they won. Bang. That's what he does. And it's off to the national team now. Hopefully, we will have a good tournament with Egypt. But I hope, of course, Nigeria will win it. Who does win it? Oh. Obviously, I'd love us to win it. But it's tough. It's tough because, obviously, when you fail to qualify for the World Cup, that's because you didn't beat those teams.

1:37:47John Obi Mikel:Exactly. There's a reason why we're not there. So I'd love to see us doing it. Morocco. But I think Morocco have the much, much stronger team. Obviously, I don't know if Hakimi will be ready for that. It's going to be a massive, massive miss for them as well. Egypt are always strong. That's the reason why they are the most successful team. They want it more than any country, the African-American. Senegal are always strong. Ivory Coast, good team. Ghana, good team as well. So there's a lot of strong teams. Cameroon, I don't know. Etonis to sort out what's going on there. But there's a lot of teams that can absolutely beat themselves in the chest and say, you know what?

1:38:21John Obi Mikel:we've got a good chance of going on to win the African Cup. It's a very interesting one, but I hope Nigeria, I hope we can be able to do it. Yeah, good luck to the Super Eagles. Good luck to all the nations taking part in the African Cup, all the nations. Of course, we will discuss it in the coming weeks as we go on taking the Mikel. But it's been a bumper edition. Tell you what, our editors are going to be absolutely pulling their hair out on this episode. Enjoy it, folks, if you're watching it, if you've been listening. Hope you have enjoyed it. Top Stuff. We'll catch up again soon, John. Merry Christmas, everyone.

1:38:49Merry Christmas, guys.

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