Chokers, Cherki & Chelsea: ‘I told you so’ as Obi Mikel talks Arsenal, Pep’s secret weapon & Delap

24:11John Obi Mikel:Everybody's saying, oh, they need to do this main side of them where they bring chaos, where they bully players and they bully teams. You can do that in the Premier League for a few weeks, but at the end of the day, it seems to find you out. And that's what's happening right now. Physicality, yes. But technically wise, they know where to be found. Nothing is going right for them technically-wise. No player is there saying, give me the fucking ball. I am the guy. I want to create chances here. Nobody's doing it. The biggest issue they have, John, Wednesday night comes around quickly. Sporting Lisbon second leg of a UEFA Champions League quarterfinal.

24:45And then before you know it, Sunday is here. It's coming thick and fast, isn't it? In that big game against City. It's coming thick and fast, yeah. I guess the million-dollar question, on paper, titles have never been won on paper.

24:56John Obi Mikel:Yeah. It is so far right now. I think everyone today and over the course of the next few days will be talking about the fact that City are now in the box seat. It is still six points. It is still six points. They've still got to do the business. How and where is this game? Fundamentally not the how. Where will Sunday, in your opinion, be won and lost? How do Arsenal go to the Etihad and stop this City juggernaut? Again, I have to say, it's not by TikTok and pens and all that. Honestly, it was absolutely disgrace to watch that. When he came out, a lot of people were saying, oh yeah, it's mental for the...

25:35John Obi Mikel:No. Yes, I've been in a team where fun games were playing. I don't know. Take the team out. Go for dinner. Go pinballing. Whatever it is. I don't know. Take them out. Go do something together. But on the training pitch... I don't understand the panic situation though. What is that kind of... What is the idea for that? The pen and the ball on the head. I don't quite get it. They have to hold it. Teamwork, I guess. Again, I'm no networking expert, but I would imagine ball in the middle, they've got a shuffle. I'm doing the actions for anyone listening to this. Are they trying to do the dance? Trying to do a dance that I'm famous for on a Saturday night.

26:16John Obi Mikel:You're like, John. But that is the thing that sometimes, not only in football, Sometimes when things in life is not going your way, then we try to try too hard. You want to try it. You're trying to push. You're trying to try too hard. It's actually the time that you need to relax. You have to relax. You have to calm down. You have to breathe. And you have to get back to basics. Basics is fundamental. Back to basics. Back to what you know the best. how to do. And I just think right now, when you look at this Mikel Ateta's side, on Mikel Ateta, he's trying way too hard. He's trying everything. He's pushing.

27:04John Obi Mikel:How can I motivate this team? How can I get over the line? He's a man that is going crazy about getting over the line. Yes, he has to get over the line. But there's no better way of doing it than being yourself. Doing the basics. Doing what your team understands. your players understand from you. Right now, he's trying to complicate everything. He's complicating everything. He has to calm down. He has to breathe. Get his team to breathe. Again, when I see him on the touchline, he looks like a man possessed. Jumping, screaming, rushing. What is going on? Watch Pep Guardiola. Everybody's saying, oh, has he lost his spot?

27:48John Obi Mikel:No. He was yesterday. He was actually chilling or seeing sometimes. it was like this, it was like that. But he's calm. I think he's learned from last season. Remember last season when he was going well? He was scratching his head, he was pulling everything, he was trying to help himself. I think he's looked at that and thought, this is not me, I need to get back to basics. I need to get back to being myself when it's not going well, throughout the season. And that's what we've seen from Pep right now. He's calm, it doesn't matter what's happening. In his demeanor, he's calm. He's not screaming and shouting.

28:20John Obi Mikel:He trusts the players. He trusts his players. He trusts the process of what he's coached them over the week. Yes. He knows they can go out there and perform and do it. So the game over the weekend, where's that going to be lost? And where's that going to be won? They have to go out there and compete. You can't give City the initiative to have the ball. We saw that what happened in the League Cup final. Where they went, they sat back and they gave City the initiative. when he gives city initiative, at some point, they will fucking break you down. They will break you. It doesn't matter what. They will break you down.

28:57John Obi Mikel:You have to push. You have to go for it right now. Arsenal have nothing to fucking lose. If they go to the Etihad and sit back and lose that game, that's it. I think that's it. So right now, they have to go for it because we don't lose. It doesn't matter. It does matter, but they know they're doing it all. Yeah. rather than leaving the game at the end of the game and say, you know what? Oh, we should have won. We should have gone for it. Oh, we should have pushed. Two, three seasons when they had to go there and win. They went for the draw. They went for the draw. Yeah. And when the city players saw their faces and saw their attitude towards the game, they thought, oh, this is a weak side.

29:40John Obi Mikel:This is a team with weak mentality. They come in here where they had to win and they come in to play for a draw. This is a team with weak mentality. So they have to go out there over the weekend for it. They have to go out there and attack City. They have to go out there and make sure they compete. Because if they don't, if they give City's initiative, the way they're playing right now, with the confidence that they have, with the momentum that they have, defending well, scoring goals, everything seems to be going really, really well for this City side. They play with so much fluidity between each other.

30:12John Obi Mikel:Everything is going well for them. So much confidence. Because they trust each other. They absolutely trust each other. And of course, when you have, for me, he's absolutely back to his best, Rodri. It took him a while, obviously, with the injury that he had. But you can see now, everything is going through, everything. I said, if he is in the city side, they are a much, much better team. Much better team, because he knows how to control the tempo. Everything goes through him. The short little passes that he gives, he passes the ball at the right space at the right time. So this, Arsenal need to go out there and make sure they compete on the weekend because if they don't, if they give City the initiative, that's where that game is going to be won and lost.

30:55I know this is an old cliche, this, but that first goal on Sunday is massive for Arsenal more than I think.

31:04John Obi Mikel:Yeah. Arsenal need to get it. They had that great run at the start of the season, I think, when scoring first, they'd won 22 games before Man United actually popped that balloon at the Emirates. But recently, They fell behind to City, fell behind to Southampton, of course, fell behind to Bournemouth. That first goal for confidence, for creating that back to the wall. Gabriel and Saliba with a 1-0 lead are animals. You can see Arsenal will grow into it. They started the season well. Just something just seems to have gone wrong. And so far, they haven't been able to find it. I don't know what it is.

31:39John Obi Mikel:But for me, what I believe is pressure. It's nerves. It's pressure. and when you come to this stage of the season i've been there i've been there i've done it the shirt becomes really heavy you go into game the first 15 20 minutes your legs are heavy you can't run i promise you that you can't run it becomes heavy you know you're thinking did i tie my boots the right way did i did i did i put myself the right way what is it on the wrong way you're thinking what is going on here your mind everything's playing in your mind that's where You need also the experienced players to pull you and say, you know what?

32:17John Obi Mikel:It's okay. It's okay. Calm down. Calm the fuck down. We know what we're doing. Get back to basics. Do the basics. Because the basics is what gets you through at this crucial time of the season. Because when you try to complicate things, it doesn't work. This is not the time when you're trying to bring new ideas. No. This is the time where you have to stick to the basics. What you know best. What your team know best. it's all about the manager finding a way of motivating right now it's about motivation because the players are tired they play so many games it's about how do you motivate those players how do you get the best out of your players how well do you know your players what buttons do you need to press to get the best out of your players this is what top managers do and this is what we're seeing from Pep Guardiola right now he knows exactly how to get the best out of well you saw the start didn't you 29 victories yeah in 32 matches for Manchester City under Pep in the month of April.

33:16John Obi Mikel:It's not a coincidence. He knows when to put his, he knows when to press the fucking gas. He knows when the machine goes into overdrive. And now the machine is in overdrive. They're pressing. They have the momentum. They're playing well. Everything is going their way. And he's been there. It makes so much difference when you are on the touchline and your manager is a manager who's won the Premier League four times in a row. I don't think it's ever going to be done again in the Premier League. I don't think it's ever going to be done again ever in the Premier League. Four times in a row. He knows how to win this game.

33:52John Obi Mikel:He knows the crucial part of this season. And it's now. And it's no coincidence that his team now is gelling. Everything is gelling. Everything they're doing is working out. Even, you know, first 20, 45 minutes they haven't scored a goal. they believe. They have the belief. They can feel it right now. They can smell it. They can smell that this Arsenal side, the nerves is crazy. They're feeling the nerves. And the only way this city side can keep pushing, pressing is by winning. Keep winning. Keep putting the pressure on Arsenal. That's the only way they can be able to win this Premier League because if they have no space, they're going to want to draw points as well, City.

34:39John Obi Mikel:I know we say Arsenal will draw points. City as well, they can't afford to draw points. So, both teams right now is who deals with the pressure better. And if you look at coach managers, if you look at both teams, who's been there, who's done it, who knows how to handle this pressure, it's Manchester City. It is, it is, it is, no doubt about that. We look at the fixtures though and there will be those watching and listening to this that say, if Arsenal lose at the Etienne on Sunday, that will be them. City will just, with the confidence, the momentum, Arsenal could even lose more points. But John, I still look at it, I still look at the fixture list.

35:15And maybe I'm reading too much into this. But City have still got to go to Bournemouth and beat it in 12.

35:21John Obi Mikel:Yep. Doing what they did against Arsenal. Aspirations of maybe getting into European football. Yep. They've still got to go to Everton. And I know, but listen, Everton have turned a bit of a corner. They themselves have got aspirations of who knows, may be usurping your Chelsea, may be usurping Liverpool, Champions League football. That's two tricky matches. Now, listen, if they beat Arsenal, you'll say if they do that, confidence just takes them through to that. Arsenal have got Newcastle at home, West Ham away with respects to everyone else. You'd be expecting them to get the job done. Everyone else, Crystal Palace on the final day of the season, they may well be in a Europa Conference League final.

36:01So ultimately, where do you sit on this game on Sunday? is it winner takes all or do you think there will be more twists in terms?

36:10John Obi Mikel:We said it before the League Cup final we said the team that goes on to win it will go on it yeah you did might go on to win the Premier League because that just sets you up that gives them psychological edge like till the end of the season and since after that game that's what we're seeing yes the momentum has shifted shifted to City with the way they're playing the confidence that they're playing with the freedom the excitement that they're playing with they have the belief now right now. They can smell it. They can smell it. They can feel it. The way they celebrate it yesterday. Because the way they celebrate as well.

36:39John Obi Mikel:And when you beat Arsenal in the League Cup final 2-0, without conceding, cliche, and they played really, really well, dominated the game, that will give you a massive, massive confidence leading up to the end of the season. And then when you go on, follow it up by smashing Liverpool as well. Yeah. That's another confidence booster. Yeah. 4-0, 3-0, yeah. And then following up again, beating Chelsea 3-0. that is a team that is full of confidence. The momentum that that gives you, the psychological that that gives you over the rest of the teams is huge. It's massive because you know and you can believe, you can smell that you can go out there right now and beat anyone.

37:19John Obi Mikel:And beat anyone. And beat anyone. And that's the way the City side is playing right now. And Pep Guardiola believes that way. He believes that that's what's happening. That's why even when they haven't scored the goal in first four, he still believes that they can go out there. They can still win. And when your players have this belief, when they can smell this, when they have this confidence, it's a massive, massive, it's a huge boost. And I just think that game on Sunday, whoever goes on to win it, the city have a week off. They might have two days off right now. The players go have a rest, have a massage, whatever it is.

37:55John Obi Mikel:And that just boosts you. That gives you a lot of confidence because two days off, you know, you're going to come back into training refreshed, full of confidence, knowing that, OK, it's a huge week. This is a decisive week. If we go on to beat Arsenal at home, this is just going to give us a massive, huge, huge psychological edge, huge confidence leading up to the end of the season. And that's what they believe. So I just think it's not winner takes it all, but it's a crucial, decisive game. So I think if City wins it, they win the league. I think they win the league. I think they will go on to beat everyone else.

38:34John Obi Mikel:I think they will go to Bournemouth. I think they will find a way of winning. Because right now, I think the way they play, my fear all the time with City was the way they played. When they press you high, when they squeeze you in that box, when they lose the ball and that ball goes over them, they never had the pace that they have right now. with the pace of these two that they have, Kushinov and Gay, that gives them the protection knowing that they can absolutely squeeze the hell out of you there in your box and keep the ball and create chances and score goals. They didn't have that before with Ruben Diaz.

39:09John Obi Mikel:I'm not here trying to knock the guy. He's a fantastic player, top center back, but he just doesn't have the pace that Kushinov and Gay has. They have the pace. And right now, those creative players can go out there and create and be the mavericks that they have knowing that when he goes behind, our two centre, our full back, our defenders can be able to deal with that. I think for me, that's a massive, massive edge that the City side have right now. We'll maybe come back. I'll get a final prediction from you before we clock off on this pod. I've got to come to your team, Chelsea, of course, John, because whilst City winning to keep themselves in the title race, I did, I was interested, we'll start here because I saw one Chelsea influencer last week say that he wanted Man City to win.

39:52that for him, forget my team, forget Chelsea winning. I want to see Man City win because I don't want Arsenal to win the league. Now, let's start there. Because up until that defeat yesterday, Chelsea are in the chase for Champions League football. Champions League football, as you've said on this podcast, is the bare minimum. Is the bare minimum. The bare minimum. Bare minimum. For Chelsea Football Club. To be going out there saying, I don't want us to win. I want City to win because I don't want Arsenal to win the team. I'm going to say this. Is that not small club mentality?

40:30Listen,

40:31John Obi Mikel:no Chelsea fan or Chelsea player or Chelsea ex-player would ever want to see Arsenal win the Premier League. So to all Chelsea Arsenal fans that are sitting here saying, oh no, you're too much of us. I'm Chelsea. You're speaking for Chelsea. I can't let you guys win the fucking Premier League. No way. Don't take it personally. No, no. Take it personally, Dior. I don't want you to win the Premier League. Take it personally. Don't give a shit. Take it personally. I don't care. Because when we were playing, we hated each other. The rivalry was crazy. We hated each other. We were smashing each other.

41:08John Obi Mikel:When I went out after the games in London, the night out, whatever it is, when I saw Arsenal in France, I never said hi to them. Arsenal players. We never spoke to each other. never spoke to each other. Never. Sometimes even our friends of friends got into fights between the friends. Yes. Because we hated each other and our friends hated our friends. That's just the rivalry that existed back then. So, but when you see it right now, so friendly, you know, they kiss each other before they go into the game. There was none of this in bars then, George. Yeah, there's none of this. It's like, yeah, you happen to your house after the game, you know, you cook me dinner.

41:45John Obi Mikel:No, we never did that. we never had any of that for us it was rivalry we go out there we kick the shit out of each other and we bullied the fuck out of them and we won we successful against Arsenal so no I guess do I understand why the influencer said what he said I have no idea but yes is that a small team mentality listen he's always speaking for himself of course he's not speaking for the club he's not speaking for the core core Chelsea fans but who do you if you ask Chelsea fans yesterday who do you want to see or you ask them right now who do you want to see win the Premier League City Man City but not but not the extent of saying that we have to lose for City to win the Premier League small side mentality that is right now has to come down to the owners this is where these owners have put this club this is where these owners have taken a club that is so successful, a club that has the culture, the mentality of winning.

42:52John Obi Mikel:The club that knows who we are, the identity of who we are. That's why they bought them in the first place. That's why they bought the football club, right? They bought the football club based on the success that we've had over the years. The owner that we had before that spent money, that invested his time, that had love for the club, for the fans, for the community, created jobs for people. Did everything for the football club. Not just the players. Not just the staff. The community created jobs for people. And he wanted the club to be successful. And so what we, we were successful. We gave him all the titles he wanted.

43:34John Obi Mikel:The Premier League, the Champions League, the FA Cup, the League Cup, everything we gave him. He was in love with the football club. But these owners right now, do they have the right mentality? Did they have the right idea for the club? Maybe. Because they spend money. It's a different spending money. Buying players. That are there to win, that are there to continue the culture, the mentality of the football club, which is winning, which is competing, than buying players that are not ready-made, that's going to come in there, that's going to take four or five years to be able to start winning.

44:09John Obi Mikel:We don't have time. Chelsea Football Club doesn't give you time. We don't have time for that. You know, these players, they're coming. It's no problem if you want to buy young players. Oh, you have to win. You have to win. Chelsea Football Club, it's about winning. The fans demand that. We demand that. And we have to hold the owners accountable. We have to hold them responsible because they are the ones making decisions. They are the ones buying those players. They are the ones bringing, chopping and changing managers. where the football club is right now. We don't want to go 10, 15 years like the Yo-Yo Arsenal football club without winning the Premier League.

44:51John Obi Mikel:No, we are not that football club because slowly but surely, when you start taking yourself out of that equation and you're thinking next year, next year, next year, slowly but surely, it's not to go in 10, 15 years, 20 years. You haven't won the Premier League. You're out of the discussion. City are getting better. Liverpool are getting better. Arsenal are getting stronger. United. And we keep buying young players that we're thinking we're going to sell off in the next 5-10 years. I don't have problems with this owners. If you invest money, you have to make money. But, don't forget the core culture.

45:28John Obi Mikel:The core idea of the football club. The people who've shared tears, blood, joy, happiness with the fans. That's created that winning mentality of what we've become, which is winning. Which is winning. And sometimes when I see the Chelsea fans frustrated, I understand their frustration. When they say Blueco out, I understand their frustration. Because they have to do better. They are the owners of the football club right now. They have to do better. They have to listen to the fans. You want to buy young players? Fine. Mix it up. You have to be successful. The only way we can be successful is by mixing it up, finding the right balance between the experienced and the young.

46:13John Obi Mikel:We've been crying out for it. You look at the game yesterday, you know, first 45 minutes, yes, they competed, which is what young players do. But then once it went, a girl, two years out, we couldn't cope. That's where you need experience to say, you know what? Okay. First five, ten minutes, let's see. Okay, we've seen the way they've come out now. Let's sit back and see how we can nullify whatever they've come up with because they've clearly they've changed some system which is still working the second half. That comes from experience. Do players do that? Of course. JT and that's not coach. That's boys saying hey hold on a sec here.

46:53John Obi Mikel:Yes. Sitting deep. Oi you here here. Let's sit deep first five ten minutes or second half because we can see that they've changed the system and we can't quite understand what's going on. Let's sit deep and see how we can nullify that. That comes from experience. but you can see that what City came out with second half there was no answer for it there was no leader there was no one that can pull people around and say you know what do this do that no one we were all over the fucking gaff and that's why we lost the game we lost the game yesterday because of inexperience and when you have inexperience on the pitch and you also have inexperience on the bench as a manager that's what happens and and on top there so for me everything just seems to be going We're quite wrong for us right now.

47:38John Obi Mikel:We're out of the Champions League position. We're now sixth position. Four points behind Liverpool. It's not looking good, mate. And I've said it. Sometimes when I look at Liam Rossini, it's not all entirely his fault, right? When you're a young manager, you offer the job. Of course you're going to take it. Of course. You're not going to turn it down on. No, no. So for me, it's the people that are bringing them in. It's the people that go out there and appoint. A manager that has really, really no experience in the Premier League to come in and coach a very inexperienced side. That's what you get.

48:16John Obi Mikel:Who's going to lead who? Yeah. Yeah, you're right. Who's going to lead who? Well, it's funny because on this podcast two weeks ago, you talked about the fact there is no leadership top to bottom. 24 hours after that fact, we spoke about the Enzo comments on international duty, the Mark Cucaria comments. 24 hours after the fact, I WhatsApp you. and I was like, John, have you seen the news? Confirmation in a bizarre, it was a strange press conference before that Port Vale game, he announced that he'd spoken to Enzo, had Liam Rossiniar and the decision had been taken to ostensibly suspend Enzo for two matches.

48:51Port Vale, he sat out and then he was in the stands yesterday watching on as of course Chelsea lost to City. You and I were talking about the fact that I know players Enzo won't be the, well, he's certainly not the first and he won't be the last. You've got to discipline players. But I can't recall, John, a time where a manager has to, for want of a better phrase, air the dirty laundry in public, whereby a player's done something wrong. You keep it in house, right? You've got a little hamstring strain. You're being fined. You're actually injured, but really you're being punished. It just felt a bit, did I say, John,

49:31John Obi Mikel:is he a little bit too transparent? It is, isn't it? Again, I've talked about Liam Rossini and the way everything he does. Or when I watch him speak or when I see him during press conferences, I just think everything just seems to me. I don't want to use the word fake. It just seems to me like. Exaggerated. He's pushing. He's forcing everything. He's trying to stamp his authority. He's forcing it. You know, it's like, OK, I have to do it. I have to stamp my authority. I have to make these players respect me. I have to make sure that I am the guy. And sometimes when these kind of things happen, yes, I talked about it.

50:11John Obi Mikel:There should be players, players should be held responsible. There should be accountability for what you do or what you come out and say about the football club, about your position at the football club. Yes, of course, because players can go out and say whatever they want and think it's fine. No, there should be accountability for that. And I'm happy that the club actually did what they did. Do what they did. But, things like it should be dealt in-house. It should be an in-house situation. Yes, as you said, yes. Player, we've seen that so many times where Jose Mourinho did, you did something.

50:43John Obi Mikel:Yes, or he comes out and says, oh yeah, you have an arm string problem. Two, three games, you're out. But then, truthfully, you've been punished and you've been fined. You've got a arm string. You've got a arm string. Yes, exactly. You've been fined. He comes out and says, you know what? Yeah, he's been fined. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He has an arm string problem. and he's not going to be involved two, three games. You keep it in-house. You don't air your dirty laundry outside in the public. It just seems to me that the situation, what happened is the decision that he took was more about him than about the player and the football club.

51:17John Obi Mikel:That's what it seems to me about. It was about him. It was about him stamping his authority. It was more about him than about Enzo than about the football club. I just think this should have been handled privately behind closed doors. And nobody hears about it. That's the problem with him right now, that when I talk about him, that he's trying to stamp his authority in any way possible, it just seems to me that something is not clicking. Something is not right between him and the players. Same similar situation scenario happened with Rodri at Manchester City. That's where you need an experienced head, an experienced manager.

51:59John Obi Mikel:Pep Guardiola was asked. Look at what Liam Rossini did to Enzo Fernandes. Are you going to do similar to Rodri? He said, nope. Nope. Of course not. Of course not. Because there is no one player right now in the world that when you get a phone call from Real Madrid, Florentino Paris, that you're going to turn it down. There's no play. La Mignola. Oh, okay. But that's not going to happen from Barcelona to Real Madrid. That's impossible. One player only did it, Luis Figo. And look what happened to him. That's not going to happen again. So I don't think any player can turn down Real Madrid. And people didn't say that.

52:41John Obi Mikel:If the money comes in, the money is good, Rodri is free to go. It's a great old mistake. But again, he dealt with the situation in a very calm way, in a very calm way that even the press didn't know what to say anymore because they wanted to stay up some shit. and he dealt with it and he didn't have any comeback. They didn't have nothing else to say. Yes, if Roddy wants to go to Real Madrid, bring me the money, come and knock on my door. If you're not happy, off you go. I get good money. Chapter close. We move on. At the end of the day, there is no player bigger than the football club. I've said it so many times and I just felt that Liam Rossini, the way he dealt with that situation, I don't know if it was the club's decision also or it was just his decision, but I just felt that the way he handled it is more about me, Liam Rossini, than about Enzo Fernandes and the football club.

53:28I'll tell you what, we're getting a lot of comments on our social medias about the fact that last season, we on the show, podcast, spent a lot of time talking about Nicholas Jackson.

53:39John Obi Mikel:Yeah. Started in the weekend, actually scored for Bayern, 5-0 win. They've got 105 goals in the Bundesliga. Oh, they're flying under. By the way, with five games still to go. It's absolutely insane. A young man that we haven't actually spoken much about, and I'll explain why in a second, Liam DeLapp. Comes off the bench at the weekend. Again, sorry, Liam, quite ineffectual. A lot of Chelsea players were yesterday, in truth. I think it's now one Premier League goal in 23 Premier League appearances. A lot of them have come off the bench. And a lot of people are saying, it's one rule for one, one rule for another.

54:12You guys hammered Nicholas. You've said nothing on Liam.

54:15John Obi Mikel:Oh, no, no, no. That's not true. That's not true. Obviously, the reason is that Liam comes off the bench. Liam is a soft player. He's always coming off the bench. That's the point. It doesn't really start games. It doesn't really start games for us to be able to assess him properly and say, okay, this is where he's at. But, of course, there is an argument there that, yes, are you going to compare Liam De Laat right now and Nicolas Jackson? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. And we've said it. I said it. Nicolas Jackson was – people are getting this wrong. We said it so many times, though. He was a fantastic player.

54:53John Obi Mikel:And I actually think right now we're missing him. We are missing Nicholas Jackson. I can say that right now in the pod. And I said it so many times that he was a good player. What he gave us, no striker has given it to us. Yes, Jao Pedro is scoring goals. He's doing all this. Yes. But what Nicholas Jackson was giving us in terms of, number one, pressing high. The way he was pressing aggressively well. This connection between him and Cole Palmer. Cole Palmer looks lost without Nicholas Jackson right now. the creativity that he had, the link-up play that he had, the way he was always stretching teams to give us that freedom in the middle for players to come in that pocket and pick up the ball and time and great chances.

55:35John Obi Mikel:Nobody's giving us that. Yes, we are missing Nicholas Jackson. Yes, was he a good player? Of course, absolutely yes. Was he scoring enough? Maybe not. Was he giving so much for the football club? Of course he was. Do we miss him? Absolutely. It was about competition. It was always about... What I said was about competition. I just felt he didn't, he wasn't patient enough to say, you know what? I want to fight. I want to compete. I like to compete. It was, it's about competition. I'm in a big club like Chelsea Football Club. I want to compete for my places because you know what? It's actually going to make me better.

56:10John Obi Mikel:Because if somebody is there pushing me week in, week out to keep improving, it's only going to make me better. It's only going to improve my game. And that's the problem that I saw from him. He wasn't ready, wasn't patient enough to sit there and say, you know what? Bring it on. Let's compete. Let's fight for position. He would have been the guy right now because we are absolutely missing him right now. What he gave us, because I looked at that game yesterday. He would have been there chasing, pressing very aggressively, connecting with Cole Palmer, stretching play. The only problem was he was not scoring enough.

56:46John Obi Mikel:And that is just the problem. Is he better than Liam Dela right now? Of course. Absolutely. players. Liam Delap needs to improve his game. Is he a Chelsea player? We said it back then. No, he's not. He is not a Chelsea player, Liam Delap. He's not. The way he plays, he's not. He's the typical number nine. He wants to hold up the play, bring people up, and just, you know, he's not really that technically gifted. So he's not a Chelsea player. You know, he hasn't scored enough. He hasn't participated enough. He hasn't given us anything, really, to be able to say he's a Chelsea player. I look at so many place on that squad.

57:23John Obi Mikel:We've spent more than a billion. We don't have players that, you know what, when they're coming off the bench, they will really impact games. None. Zero. I'm worthy on that. Zero. Some of them, when they're coming up, I'm looking on the TV, I'm thinking, who the fuck is that? I don't even know who that is. I'm not talking. I don't know who that is. Who is that? Please explain to me. I watched the game yesterday. Some of the players that were coming in, I don't know who they are. Sorry, no disrespect. Compared to what we used to. People keep saying, Mikael, stop comparing. But to be successful, that's why we're successful.

58:04John Obi Mikel:And this club is about being successful. Except if you don't want to win trophies anymore. Then you don't complain, then you don't talk about it. But if you want to become successful, if you want to keep being successful, you have to keep bringing the top players. Those top players have to be there. You look at Real Madrid. They keep year and year bringing top, top players. Manchester City, year and year are top, top players. I looked at some of the players coming in. I didn't know who they were. No disrespect. I didn't. So, and players like Garnaccio, there's a reason why many managers at Manchester United have not really kept him or played him enough.

58:45John Obi Mikel:because he comes the first few weeks, yes, he runs around, little sparkle here and there. It's no consistency. And then he's off. And then the whole thing dies off. You don't hear about it. You don't see it. It's incredible that the amount of money we spent, you know, you look at Ganaghi, you look at Gittins, you look at, look at the players that are starting for us. It's just not a chance of quality players. And then the ones that are coming off the bench, It's not. And the goalkeeper, please, if they don't go out there in the summer and bring in a top goalkeeper, honestly, honestly, honestly.

59:22John Obi Mikel:What are you going to do, John? I don't know what I'm going to do, honestly. It can't keep happening. It can't build a foundation. Build a foundation. I know next season, Levi Kovac is going to come back. I still believe he needs another top center back alongside him. 1 ,000%. 10, you need another experience sent alongside him. We need another midfielder. If Enzo Fernandes wants to go, yes, bring the money and he can do one. And then we move on. We need another striker, another top striker. We need another winger. Liam Delaus has to go. So we need to strengthen the positions we need to strengthen.

1:00:05John Obi Mikel:We cannot next season not see ourselves competing to win the Premier League. We can't. Because it keeps going season after season after season after season. And then we get into that model. We get muddled up into that place where, oh yeah, Chelsea out of the country. Nobody talks about Chelsea about winning the Premier League anymore. The owner who spent so much money would be sitting in his home right now. He'd be crying his eyes out. Thinking this is what my football club has turned into. We're going to get him on the port. This is what my football club has turned into. My sweat, my money, my energy, my time, my love for the football club that he invested.

1:00:47John Obi Mikel:I keep saying it. Roman was not about the money. Roman was not there for the money. He had the money. He had the money. He was there for the love that he had. When he used to come into the dressing room and have a chat with plays, you know, he sits very close to us. And he's sometimes holding a play. Obviously, his English is not that great, but he had that. His interpreter was always there. He's always smiling. and he's like, okay, next time, okay, next time, make sure you do better. You know what I mean? Yes, boss. Exactly. But he was always there, invested his time. Even when it wasn't going well, he was there with us.

1:01:23John Obi Mikel:Until we kept it for such a long time. If we not did well, then the manager goes. But he knows exactly when to press the button. He knows when to be there for us. And I just feel that this owners right now, the connection between them, the fans, and the players, I don't see it. I absolutely do not see it. Something is missing. They have to feel the temperature of the fans and they haven't done that. And that's something that is separating them with the fans. And that's why there's crisis between the fans and the owners. Until they get back to who we are and what we stand for, which is winning trophies, which is competing to win in the Premier League, the Champions League.

1:02:01John Obi Mikel:Next season, we don't want to be playing the fucking Conference League again. We did that. We won it. We won it. I'd say we, Chelsea. It's a shit trophy. We don't want to play in that trophy. We don't want to compete in that competition. Sorry, UEFA, but we don't. That's fair. Sorry, UEFA, but we don't. That's not Chelsea. There's so many teams that can compete to win in the conference league. Not Chelsea football club. So the owners, what we demand from them, the bare minimum we demand from them, is competing to win in titles. The culture of the football club, the identity of the football club, who we are should never be lost.

1:02:40It could be worse. As you point out, there is a protest planned as well for that game at Man United, Stamford Bridge at the weekend. There's going to be a protest. Because the fans are frustrated. They are frustrated. It could be worse though, John.

1:02:51John Obi Mikel:The fans are frustrated. Again, we saw what happened. The players now are coming out and saying they want to leave the football club. I'm looking next season in the summer. Trust me, there's going to be a lot of police that's going to go and knock on the door and say, you know what? I think I've had enough here. What is actually, what is the plan here? There's a lot of players that are going to go and try and ask questions. Cole Palmer is going to ask questions. Boyce Caicedo is going to ask questions. Enzo Fernandez is going to ask questions. These top, top players, Kukarela is going to ask questions.

1:03:19John Obi Mikel:These top players, what is the plan? What is the actual plan? What is the plan for the next two, three seasons? They don't want to sit for another five seasons without winning the Premier League. They came to Chelsea Football Club to win the Premier League. The Premier League is the best league in the world. And as a player, you want to win the best league in the world and then the Champions League. So these players, I know in the summer, I bet you 1 ,000%, the rumors about Cole Palmer moving to Manchester, it's not going away. It's not going away. And I'm looking at Caicedo, the way he's playing.

1:03:50John Obi Mikel:He's not going to keep playing that way and not winning anything. At some point, Real Madrid are going to come knocking on the door. Real Madrid are going to come knocking on the door. Kukorela as well. Now he's saying he's looking to move. So what is the plan? I think that's what most of the players are going to be asking. The owners, the board, and the manager come to the end of the season. Could be worse. I'll finish on this before I get your prediction for the weekend. You could be Spurs. They are the gift they keep on giving. New manager in Roberto De Serbi. He's been saying all the right things.

1:04:22On the touchline, he's a bag of energy. He's kind of manager, I think. You've said it. You'd probably like to play under him. You'd like to play under him. but they go to Sunderland they're toothless again John I mean the goal in a lot of ways is a microcosm of their season it's calamity

1:04:39John Obi Mikel:deflected off Kinski's got no chance another game in which they lose they've not won a league game in 2026 John Spurs Europa League winners from last season and they're in the bottom three that's horrible they're in the bottom three new manager Roberto Di Zabi I think he's a fantastic manager honestly will he keep them up watching the game yesterday

1:05:06John Obi Mikel:it's tough to say it's tough because you can have a good manager but a manager we've seen it needs time a manager needs time and he hasn't had the time this is his first game unfortunately for him he hasn't got the fucking time no he hasn't got the time he's got five six games like whatever it is six six before we know whether they're down or not he hasn't got time the manager absolutely 1 ,000 % needs time. There's no question about that. But unfortunately, he needs to start winning. I watched the game yesterday. They were bullied off the fucking pitch. They were second to everything. They couldn't run.

1:05:43John Obi Mikel:There was no energy. There was nothing there. I keep saying it. There was no energy. There's nobody that seems to run. The one person that we think that has the energy, the enthusiasm to always, we always see him bring him to his game. Konogalaga. It was nowhere to be found. He was also lacking energy. There's no energy. It was flat. It was absolutely flat, this first team. I'm watching Solanke. Absolutely. He hasn't been good for this first side. They spent$60 million to get him into the football club. He hasn't done anything. He's been absolutely awful. Awful, this first team. Where is the goals going to come from?

1:06:22John Obi Mikel:They seem that they're out of ideas. They don't know what they're doing. They can't string two passes together. They can't string two passes together. Nothing is going well for them. Absolutely nothing is going well for them. And then I've got the lost, the captain, Romero. When the Premier League, right? I know I keep saying it. It's the most difficult, difficult league. When you find yourself in that hole, Right? They're like that. Slippery slope. It's a slip. Mate, I'm telling you. You keep going down and down and down. And because we came and we mastered it. What we used to do, right? During the season.

1:07:05John Obi Mikel:When it's not going well for us. And then we start having these meetings. Everybody's bringing the ideas. What we're not doing. At the end of the day, you know what we go back to? Fucking basics. Fucking basics. JT comes and says it. The man who comes and says, guys, stop fucking complicating everything. Go back to fucking basics. You know what to do, John Boy. You stay there. Get the ball passive. Frank, you know what to do. Get in the box. Arrive late. Score goals. Did your drop, but you hold the ball. Get people in. Give score goals. Basics. I could have been managing a Chelsea if I was there.

1:07:42John Obi Mikel:I think it's done. Jesus. Because when you are in that sleep really slow, when you're in that hole and you try to dig yourself out of, away from it, it becomes even more difficult because you start trying different things. You start trying to complicate things. You try to get into the player's head. It doesn't work. Go back to the fucking basics. And I think that's what Roberto Di Zadio needs to do. Get this team to absolutely fucking run. Run, tackle, and compete. That's it. If you lose, then you lose. If you keep losing, but that is the basics. Do the basics. run tackle win games that's it compete then you might start picking up points but so far they haven't done it and I just see them keep going down and down because I don't see any sparkles I don't see anything there that's going to say they're going to come out of it because they look absolutely horrible yesterday when I watched it because Sunderland absolutely bullied them off the fucking pitch they run Sunderland they were first to everything They were first two headers, tackles, everything in Sunderland were absolutely up for it.

1:08:51John Obi Mikel:And you know how it is when you go to play in the stadium of light. It's absolutely crazy. And that's exactly what happened. It's a very, very difficult place to go. And they should have known that. So they were absolutely bullied off the pitch. They need to find something, Spurs. Otherwise, top, bottom three, relegation. Are they going down? Yes or no?

1:09:12I know you don't want them to, but are they?

1:09:15John Obi Mikel:But you know what? I don't see anything that is going to give anybody any confidence. I don't see it. So they're going down. Sometimes when a team is fighting for relegation, you can understand. You can see it. When they go into games, you can see that they operate. They run and they tackle. Nothing. Zero. Absolutely zero. When a team is struggling for their lives, to stay in the Premier League, you can notice that. You can see. You can feel it by the way they're going into tackling. By the way they run. By the way they're screaming at each other by the way they're pulling each other. He's absolutely flat with this person.

1:09:52John Obi Mikel:The manager has to find a way psychologically. How does he get that? When they go into the game, they know that they're fighting for their lives. They are running for the fans. They are running for the badge for the football. They are running for their careers. Most importantly, because if they go fucking down, their salaries are going to be fucking slashed. Some of them. Some of them will get moved. but in the main, they have to understand that they're absolutely in a shit right now. Spurs. I don't think they understand where they are right now. This place. I don't think they understand because I don't see the bite.

1:10:28John Obi Mikel:I don't see that you absolutely fighting for life. I don't see that Roberto Di Zaghi has got a fucking massive job in his hands. He needs to dig deep and find a way. It's same thing. Same manager comes in different man's that comes in same place. Yeah. These experts players absolutely, again, think and believe that they're just there to play pretty football. The Premier League is not pretty football. The Premier League sometimes, again, Pep Guardiola said yesterday or two days before the game, he said, oh, it's sunny. The weather is getting sunnier. Now my team's going to play better. Yeah, that's what he said.

1:11:07John Obi Mikel:You're right. When the weather is not good, when it's fucking freezing, when it's cold, when your boots are fucking tight, you know, you have blood underneath your toes. That's what the Premier League gives you. How do you rise up as a man? How do you fight that? How do you compete in that situation? Because that's what the Premier League will give you. It's the most fucking, it's brutal league. Absolutely brutal. And if you're not ready for it, mate, it's going to absolutely swallow. So Spurs are down. Why are you keep pressing that? I do. Because you keep talking and thinking, right, he's making a good case here.

1:11:40He's making a good case to finally say Spurs are down. Are they down?

1:11:46John Obi Mikel:I just think the Premier League needs Spurs. The Premier League, absolutely. We need Spurs. The Premier League, if you're a football fan, if you're a Premier League fan, we need Tottenham. To stay in the league. Because I just think they're not a big club. They're not a big club. Because they haven't won anything. But I just think with the size of the football club, with what they have, the stadium that they've built, the training facility that they've built, the players that they have, I just think they're way too big to be in the championship. So they'll stay up. You want them to. They'll stay up.

1:12:20Final one, Sunday. It all comes down. Saturday night, Chelsea, Man United, by the way. But Sunday, the big one's Sunday.

1:12:27John Obi Mikel:The big one is Sunday. The big one is Sunday. It's a mouthwatering game. It's a game that everybody will tune in to watch. I mean, if you're a football fan, it doesn't matter what you're doing. Switch on that fucking TV and just... get yourself to watch that game because it's going to be a blockbuster game because i expect city playing at home with the momentum that they have with the confidence that they have with the freedom that they play with the excitement that they play with with the creativity that they're playing the fluidity everything is going well for them the players have so much so much belief confidence they can smell there's something it's about to happen they can smell that this arsenal side are about to fucking bottle it again because they don't know how to finish.

1:13:12John Obi Mikel:Their city know how to finish. Pep Guardiola knows how to finish. They have the manager that's been there, done it. He has the experience. He has the know-how. And that is just going to be the difference come Sunday. You're going to see a manager that is so calm, cool, calm, collective with a manager that's going to be screaming, full of nerves, screaming, shouting, kicking everything, jumping and scared. That's the word. And another team is also going to be nerves. Bag of nerves. Arsenal. They're going to be full of nerves in that game. They're going to be full of nerves. I want to see the mentality.

1:13:46John Obi Mikel:We talked about it so many times. Sometimes, not sometimes, this Arsenal team, they have a fucking weak, weak mentality. I know they're not going to agree with that. Weak, weak mentality. But when it's the critical time of the season, the crucial time of the season, when you have to rise up, it's not about how well you are. It's about mental. It's this side. It's the mental side of it because you have to convince yourself who you are. You have to convince yourself that you're as good. You have to convince yourself that you have the creativity to go out there and perform. You have the belief. You have the confidence.

1:14:31John Obi Mikel:if your mental part of the game is not there, trust me, you go out there and you will be shit. And that's what's happening with the Arsenal side right now. They have a weakest mentality and that's what's happening to them because they can't convince themselves when it's not going well, how do we get out of it? How do we perform? They have to switch up. They have to get that mental right. And if they go into that game on Sunday with a weak mentality, before they know the game is going to be over and the Premier League is going to be over. So it's a Manchester double for you this weekend, John? What is a Manchester?

1:15:08Damn. I almost got you. United at the bridge on Saturday night. That'll be a great game as well.

1:15:14John Obi Mikel:No, we're winning. Chelsea will win. No, we're winning. We're winning. You always say that. Listen, we have to bounce back. We have to bounce back. We haven't won a game in three. We haven't scored in three, mate. I know. We haven't scored in three. That's why we'll win 5-0. We're not going to win. It's a fucking shambles. It's a disaster. We haven't scored a goal in three games. I know. And you're looking at it, where's the goals going to come from? Who's going to create those chances? Where? I don't see it. I don't see it. Hopefully, John, as a Miami fan, we don't see it for a fourth game come Saturday.

1:15:50What a weekend it's going to be. I tell you, we'll be back here on taking the Mikel next week. There's going to be so much for us to pick through. What a weekend. You've got the emergency derby as well. Everton taking on Liverpool. It is Chelsea against United on Saturday night. And then the big one on Sunday, it is Man City against Arsenal.

1:16:07John Obi Mikel:Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's incredible game. Incredible game. It's going to be, and I just think right now, City, obviously they have the momentum on their side. They have the confidence. They look like the team that can go on and beat anyone, but you never know, you know, at home, if Arsenal go one nil up at home, you know, they're going to start, you know, they might start getting nervous, City, but I don't see them getting nervous. I think they have the players, they have the quality. I think if Semenyo, Doku, Cherki and Haaland, if they turn up, and of course, those two we have in the midfield, I think those two, they steady the ship, Rodri, Bernardo Silva, I think they can squeeze the life out of this Arsenal side.

1:16:46John Obi Mikel:And I think they are the better side. And I think they can go on to win that game on Sunday. Roll on Sunday. Right, taking the Mikel, done and dusted once again. John and I will be back to review it all, of course, next week. Big thanks to the good folk. at BetWinner, proud sponsors of the Obi-Wan podcast, of course, as well. Do tell your friends about us. I'm sure we'll get plenty of comments on social media after this as well. Always a pleasure and ever a cheer. Make sure you bring your lunch and dinner next. I will bring both. Cheers, John.