In short
Taking the Mikel reacts to Manchester City’s guilty verdict in the Premier League financial-regulation case (114 of 115 alleged breaches). Hosts discuss likely appeals, how long the saga could last, and what punishment should look like (fine/transfer ban vs points deduction or title stripping). They also debate corruption/loopholes in football ownership and transfers, and finish with a Ballon d’Or debate.
Guest backgrounds
No guests are interviewed. The episode is hosted by Obi Mikel (“John”) with Chris McHardy (“Chris”), plus a “legal team” mentioned as present off-mic.
Key claims
City maintained innocence; Premier League hadn’t commented at recording; punishment likely includes a large fine and transfer ban, not points deductions or stripping titles. Guardiola’s legacy and players’ on-pitch achievements shouldn’t be tarnished. Billionaire owners use lawyers to find loopholes; this happens across big clubs.
Notable examples
Aguero goal, De Bruyne/Silva/Kompan y era; Chelsea’s prior fine; Roman Abramovich; Liverpool’s Klopp era; Messi’s World Cup performances; Cole Palmer omission from England’s World Cup squad. Ballon d’Or pick: Lionel Messi.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOManchester City's Guilty Verdict
0:45 to 2:44
Discussion about Manchester City's guilty verdict and its implications.
“Manchester City maintained their innocence.”
The Reality of Financial Regulations
2:44 to 4:59
Exploration of the financial loopholes clubs exploit in football.
“That clubs, big clubs do try to find a loophole of a way to go around all the situation.”
The Role of Billionaires in Football
4:59 to 7:31
Discussion on the impact of billionaire owners in the Premier League.
“is when you have a billionaire to take over a football club, you put shackles on his hands and you have to tell him how to spend his billions.”
Potential Punishments for Manchester City
7:31 to 12:18
Speculation on the consequences Manchester City might face post-verdict.
“They have to accept it if, if, if at the end, it comes out that they are absolutely guilty.”
Integrity of Competition
12:18 to 14:00
Discussion on the importance of fair competition in football.
“Maybe 10 points, 15 points, maybe max, max.”
The Loophole in FFP Rules
14:00 to 14:55
Discussion on financial fair play and its implications in football.
“finding a way, a loophole to bring in the best players and stay there.”
Roman Abramovich's Intentions
14:55 to 16:20
Obi Mikel reflects on Abramovich's motivations as Chelsea owner.
“I don't think that's what's going to give him joy.”
Manchester City's Legacy Amid Allegations
16:20 to 17:50
Examining Manchester City's achievements alongside the ongoing allegations.
“they should absolutely face the punishment absolutely face the punishment And you believe that will be, transfer ban, the biggest fight we'll have ever seen in football, I'm sure.”
Player Responsibility and the Boardroom
17:50 to 20:38
Discussion on players' accountability versus managerial decisions.
“For the people of Manchester, for the blue side of Manchester.”
Pep Guardiola's Unmatched Legacy
20:38 to 21:51
Mikel asserts Guardiola's status as the best manager of all time.
“And people saying that Pep Guardiola's image is finished.”
Show all 22 chapters
Jurgen Klopp's Challenging Context
21:51 to 22:59
Comparing Klopp's achievements at Liverpool with Manchester City's funding.
“You'd win it with Bayern Munich, for God.”
Legal Technicalities in Football
22:59 to 25:04
Exploration of the legal arguments surrounding football finance practices.
“That plays a part in building a squad that allows Pep to rotate, allows Pep with the best talent at his disposal.”
The Future of the Premier League
25:04 to 28:00
Discussion on the implications of the Manchester City case for the league's integrity.
“So, but at the end of the day, guilty, if you found guilty, you are absolutely guilty of breaking the rules.”
Manchester City's Accountability and Punishment
28:00 to 29:54
Discussion on the potential punishments for Manchester City following their guilty verdict.
“They will be absolutely held accountable.”
Implications of Potential Points Deduction
29:54 to 31:49
Exploration of the impact of a possible points deduction on Manchester City's future.
“I, well, for what it's worth, no one cares what I think, but I'm with you.”
Naivety in Football Management
31:49 to 33:51
A candid look at the realities of football management and transfer dealings.
“So if they believe that they, they, they innocent, you know, they, they, you know, then everybody's like, I mean, we just move on.”
Evaluating Ballon d'Or Candidates
33:51 to 36:18
A discussion on the wide-open race for the Ballon d'Or and standout candidates.
“listen if you're talking about buying plays as well manchester united have spent more money than anyone in the past six, seven years.”
Lionel Messi's Legacy and Performance
36:18 to 42:01
Analyzing Lionel Messi's exceptional performance and candidacy for the Ballon d'Or.
“They go and they pick all the best and they assembled, again, assembled the back sword.”
Emotional Reflections on the World Cup
42:01 to 42:44
Obi Mikel shares his insights on emotional resilience in sports, especially related to the World Cup.
“playing with that emotion is absolutely huge.”
Critique of England's World Cup Selections
42:44 to 45:10
Discussion on the surprising exclusion of key players like Cole Palmer from the England squad.
“Yeah, comment below if you're watching this on YouTube.”
Thomas Tuchel's Challenges with England
45:10 to 47:09
Obi Mikel evaluates Thomas Tuchel's performance and the lack of identity in the England football team.
“They should absolutely be on that plane.”
Defensive Struggles of the England Team
47:09 to 49:18
Exploration of England's defensive issues and the need for improvements under Tuchel's management.
“He made those big calls and he absolutely failed.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:03Well, hello again and welcome to Taking the Mikel. It's an Obi-Wan podcast made possible by bet winner John Obi Mikel, Chris McHardy. Johnny, the legal team are signed. Not far from us for this episode.
0:18John Obi Mikel:Yeah, the legal team are here just to make sure, just to separate both of us. Well, yeah, we've had a bit of an ongoing battle this morning before even recording this podcast. Of course, coming a few days on from the bombshell news that broke on Friday night, Manchester City, a near four-year investigation. The news broke. Big shout out to David Ornstein, The Athletic. We need to point out a few things. Manchester City maintained their innocence. Of course, we saw Karl Duna Mubarak, the City chairman, releasing the statement. The Premier League at the time of recording have not commented. But brass tacks, 114 of the 115 rule breaches regarding financial regulations of the Premier League.
1:05We believe, because it's been reported, we've yet to see the dossier, we've yet to see the independent commission's report, but they've been found guilty, John. You said to me as I walked in this morning, mate, this is going to rumble on for another two, three years. And that's the point in all of this. there is no end in sight anytime soon.
1:23John Obi Mikel:No, there is no. I think, obviously, what I need to say about this, like you said, we need to be very careful with what we say here and what we talk about because, like we said, the news has been broken that they've been found guilty of 114 or 15, yeah. So we need to be very careful here. And the fact that the Premier League hasn't come out and said anything yet yet clearly states that there's something still ongoing that is not resolved so we need to be very careful i know everybody's so quick to jump on it and say oh ct this ct that and trying to discredit everything they've done you know pep guardiola the players and and everything that they've achieved you know we need to be very very careful but yes if they've been found guilty if he comes out they've been found guilty of all charges i mean that's that's crazy isn't it because you You know, it's huge.
2:15John Obi Mikel:It's a huge news. And this is one we've been waiting for. It's taken a long time. And it will take a long time, I think, now. We're not done yet. Because I believe it's not done yet. Because I think CT will appeal. And I think this might go to high court. And you look at another two, three years of this rumbling and going on. And everybody not knowing what's going to happen.
2:38John Obi Mikel:This is something that happens all the time, Chris. Let's not be naive here. Let's not be absolutely naive here and think that this does not happen. This happens in all the big clubs. I will tell you that it happens a lot. That clubs, big clubs do try to find a loophole of a way to go around all the situation. Is it wrong that they do it? Of course, absolutely it is wrong. Is it bad? Of course, absolutely. Because you were kind of cheating the system. But let's not be naive here and think that City are the only ones doing it. No, City are not the only ones doing it. But this is what happens. They all find a loophole.
3:14John Obi Mikel:These billionaires, they come into the Premier League and the Premier League, of course, the government, we all vet them. We go through the legal system. Oh, do you have enough money to be here to take over a Premier League club, to buy a Premier League club, to improve the standard of the league? Yes, we go through all that. And then we accept these billionaires. They come into the league. They take over the league. They bring in absolutely the best players in the world that we've enjoyed for so many years in the Premier League. The football, whatever we enjoy. The Kevin De Bruyne's, the Agueros.
3:45John Obi Mikel:All the moments that the joy that they've given us over the years. The Aguero goal that we saw. This is by Man City coming in and bringing those players into the league. Roman Abramovich coming into the league, spending his money, investing his time. Love of the game. Not just coming to make money off the game. Not just coming to take money off the fans. No. They come, they invest their money, they invest their time, they invest their energy, their love of the game, everything. But you can't cheat the system. That's one thing. I've been very vocal about corruption here in the podcast. I'm very, very vocal about it.
4:22John Obi Mikel:And I cannot stand it. Not for one. If you've been found guilty, you should face the punishment. If you've been found guilty. So far, they haven't been found guilty. And it's still ongoing. And the fact that Premier League hasn't said anything so far, I think there's still a lot that's going on behind the scenes. The city of command, the misstatement, they said they will prove themselves that they are innocent. They said that all along that they're innocent and they stood by it and they're still innocent. So we just have to wait and see. I think this is just going to go on and on and on and on.
4:54John Obi Mikel:And at the end of the day, you bring in these billionaires, like I said, the one thing you will never ever do is when you have a billionaire to take over a football club, you put shackles on his hands and you have to tell him how to spend his billions. because that's the worst thing you will do. That's the least thing you do because they will never listen to you. They will never listen to you. But they've got to. But they have to. If they want to be a football club owner in the Premier League, the most exciting league in the world, the best league. The best league in the world, yeah. Then they have to adhere to the rules and regulations.
5:25John Obi Mikel:They have to. Listen, they've spent their billions in the best players. The reason why we call the Premier League the best league in the world is because the best players are coming to the Premier League. We've watched the Premier League absolutely for years. I've played in the Premier League. I've competed against the best players, some of the best players in the world, because that's what the Premier League gives you. And we couldn't have that if these bolognese are not spending their money bringing those players in. And we've enjoyed that. I've competed against most of them and I've enjoyed it.
5:53John Obi Mikel:The fans have watched the games. They've enjoyed it. Of course. The moments, the joy they've given us. We've all enjoyed it. But you still have to stick to the rules. You can't break the rules. But this is a game, I'm telling you, When a billionaire comes and takes over a football club, he has about 20, 30 lawyers that are sitting there working for him. And they are there to find loopholes to keep them fucking rich. The gray areas. The gray areas to keep them rich. And that's what they do, these rich guys, these billionaires. They take risk. All their life is about taking risk. They take risk to stay rich.
6:29And those lawyers does their fucking job to make sure that they find the loopholes and keep them rich.
6:34John Obi Mikel:So I'm not sitting here defending them. You're blaming the lawyers as you're doing, Joel. I'll tell you right now, right? When the whole situation probably happened and they laid out the whole information, oh, this is what you have to do. The lawyers have come in and said, this is what you have to do. We have to go through that. We have to go through this loophole and find a way of going around the whole situation. But for us to end to A, we have to go around this loophole. And they've looked at it, probably the owners have looked at it. Are you sure? Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is what we do. The lawyers.
7:05John Obi Mikel:Yeah, yeah. This is what we do. I'm pretty sure this is legal. And they've listened to them because that's what they've done. They've made them rich for so many years. They've kept them rich by taking risk. I'm not sitting here defending any of them. Right? But what I'm saying is this is a loophole that they try to find. And it's backfired. And it's backfired. Big time. Massively. Absolutely backfired. Spectacularly. So this is something they have to deal with. They have to accept it if, if, if at the end, it comes out that they are absolutely guilty. But what I think is going to happen is that they're going to appeal, right?
7:42John Obi Mikel:And they're going to lessen the charges. Some of the charges are going to be thrown out of the fucking window. And they are going to get absolutely huge, huge fine. You think a fine? And a transfer ban. I don't think they're going to deduct any points. I don't think they're going to strip them of their titles. I absolutely do not believe that because the Premier League also have to be very, very careful here. very, very careful with what they do. In terms of their brand. In terms of their brand. Because what we've seen, what we've enjoyed for so many years with this city side, winning the Premier League four times in a row.
8:16John Obi Mikel:Pep Guardiola winning the Premier League six times in 10 years, right? It's crazy. Absolutely mind-blowing. Yes, but. There's a but. And that's the thing, John. Now that is the but. There's always going to be a but. There's always going to be a but. but you know me and you cannot sit here. I will be the last person to sit here and discredit what they achieved on the pitch. Absolutely not. That was going to be one of my questions. Absolutely not. Because you played the game. Listen, it's all good and well me sat here, any fans. We feel, I say we, a lot feel cheated at what we've seen has not been above board, has not been quote unquote legal.
8:52You've played the game. So if you were a player, let me say that, if you were Sadio Manny, if you were Mohamed Salah, Roberto Firmino, who have, over the last few years, emerged as City's biggest rivals. We saw Jurgen Klopp, that great Liverpool team. I hate saying that, but it's true. Push City all the way. How do you feel, John? How do you feel sat here today, knowing that ultimately, I take what you've said is right. Pep Guardiola does not become a bad manager overnight. Of course he doesn't. The man's a genius. But in comprising that squad, City have broken rules. As it's alleged today, they have broken rules in putting that squad in place.
9:35So what would be your view as a player?
9:38John Obi Mikel:As a player, listen, you have to look at it. We've got egos, players, right? Football players, we've got egos. I wouldn't want to win the Premier League that way. I wouldn't want to be handed the Premier League now and say, yeah, strip it and say, give me the Premier League. No, no. I wouldn't want to win the Premier League that way. Absolutely not. because we like to compete. We like to compete on the pitch. We like to compete against the best or we have to compete against whoever is in front of us. We want to beat whoever in front of us. We want to compete against whoever in front of us. So for me, yes, would I be upset?
10:09John Obi Mikel:Yes. But right now, would I look at it and say, yes, I competed against Fernandinho, Yaya Torre back then. Did they cheat? Did they put the squad together and beat us some of the times when we lost against them? no, because I was happy to compete against Yaya Torre. I was happy to compete against Fernandinho Aguero. Because I looked at that squad and thought, this is the team to beat. If we want to become champions, if we want to call ourselves champions, you have to beat the best team. And back then, they were the best team. After we obviously degraded Manchester United from where they were, then it became City.
10:47John Obi Mikel:Then it became City. So that squad that they put together, I was always happy to compete against them. Always happy because they were the best team that you look at it, you know, weekend, you were like, you know, you're going up against Aguero, Tevez, Yaya Torre, Fernandinho, Vicent Company. That's not the team you want to beat if you want to go on to call yourself champions. So yes, I would have been a little bit upset, but as a player, as a competitor, somebody that loves to compete, that loves to, you know, when the game is finished, I beat myself in the chest and say, you know what, fucking hell, we did it.
11:18John Obi Mikel:we beat one of the best squad in the premier league one of the best squad in the premier league and that's how you want to look at yourself so i don't want to sit here right now and say yes everybody should be upset the people the teams the players that lost against this manchester city squad because you don't want to compete that way you don't want to look back and say oh yeah give me the titles oh yeah give me the three points fuck that yes are they gonna get punishment yes they will get punishment but i just think they're gonna get a massive massive fine i know money is not a problem for them no i don't think that's the problem but i think they're gonna get a transfer ban that's what they're gonna get for maybe two three four years yes probably but if you look at what they've done this summer they've absolutely stuck up their team they look like they've got out there they know what's gonna happen and they've spent money especially in that midfield bringing all those midfield players young talented young midfield players that they can develop for the next four or five years.
12:11John Obi Mikel:And they will look strong in the next four or five years. So what is the punishment going to be? Are you going to strip them of the title? I don't think that's the right thing to do. Are you going to deduct points? Maybe 10 points, 15 points, maybe max, max. Because you don't want to deduct points that's going to lead them to the championship. Do we need Manchester City right now in the Premier League? Absolutely. Do we need Chelsea in the Premier League? Absolutely. And these are the two teams that have been found guilty. We've been fined 10 million pounds. We need them, but be careful with that because we need them.
12:41If they keep breaking rules, you don't need them. You don't need them where they're bringing the game into disrepute. To the point that you made, the Premier League is the biggest brand in world football.
12:50John Obi Mikel:Yes, it is. They cannot. And that's why there's a real, there's a real issue now. It's a fine line, Chris. It's a fine line. It's a fine line. And that's what I talk about. I'm not here defending that. I am against Corpus. But again, let's not be fucking naive here. Let's not be naive. He goes on. He's going on. I know this now in the summer. I tell you a story in the summer. Summer. Be careful. No names, please, John. I'm not naming names. No names. An agent sold his player, right? So because he got paid by a third party, right? The agent did. The agent got paid by a third party because the club couldn't pay him directly because they're trying to balance the books.
13:39by a third party and that third party happens to owe a favor to the club to the club so he goes to some country and gets paid everybody moves on now yeah is that cheating that's cheating right yeah so it happens everywhere it happens all the time in this big class because they're always
14:06John Obi Mikel:finding a way, a loophole to bring in the best players and stay there. FFP rules. It happens all the time. Now, I am not defending that, Chris. I am not. I am not defending that. And also, when the Chelsea story came out, I didn't know about it, right? We got fined. And I accepted that. I wasn't sitting here saying, yeah, yeah, no, no, no. I'm sure if Roman, the Roman Abramovich that I know, that I know, will never want to cheat anyone. Because he loves the game. He absolutely loves the game. His joy is to be in the game. He was not there to make money. That was not his purpose of being at Chelsea Football Club, owning the football club.
14:51John Obi Mikel:That was not. So for him to pay some bloke$5 million here and there, I don't think that's what's going to give him joy. I don't think that's what's going to make him sleep well at night. No, but did he break the rules after five, 10 years that it's come out now? Yes, of course he did. But again, I'm telling you that the Roman Abramovich that I know will not sit and say and be the first person to come up with that. This is what the lawyers are there to do. Rich people, billionaire lawyers are always there. 20, 30 of them work for them. Every single day. But it lies for them. But these lawyers have made them billions.
15:28John Obi Mikel:and at some point they got to trust absolutely put all their trust in whatever they tell them because they've been working with them for years and they've kept them rich they've made them rich you cannot bring in a billionaire and tell him how to spend his billions no fucking way they will not listen to you they listen to their lawyers because those lawyers have absolutely made them billions and still making them billions take risk risk every single day to keep them rich is it it's not fair right it's not fair but that's who they are that's who they are they are their brains work it's crazy how it works it's different from you and I different from you and I and that's why they're where they are that's who that's why they're who they are are they breaking the rules of course and I think right now if Manchester City are found guilty they should absolutely face the punishment absolutely face the punishment And you believe that will be, transfer ban, the biggest fight we'll have ever seen in football, I'm sure.
16:30You don't think there will be stripping of Premier League titles? There might be asterisks.
16:35John Obi Mikel:I just think that is probably going to tarnish the Premier League's teammates. Too much. That's what I think. We all, we all make, we all do stuff, like people, we all make mistakes. Sometimes it's mistakes, sometimes it's a choice. You decide, you go for it, you take it, you know in the risk and you go for it. And when it comes down, when you found guilty, you have to take absolute responsibility of it. And I think that's what they're going to do right now. They're going to be found. If they are found guilty, they will accept the punishment. But also, we've lost Roman Abramovich as an owner of the Premier League, right?
17:19And be careful.
17:20John Obi Mikel:So we, the Premier League doesn't, I believe, right? I don't know this Manchester City's owners, but what they've done since taken over the football club, you and I can sit here, we can see that the club has gone from this to that. Now. Whole new stratosphere. Whole new structure, everything. The academy is growing. They're developing some of the best academy players in the country. They're investing into the academies. They're investing into the community. doing so much, right? For the people of Manchester, for the blue side of Manchester. So we can't take that away from them, right? But we need to be careful, right?
18:05John Obi Mikel:Should they face the punishment? Absolutely. If they found guilty, but stripping them of the titles of what they've done on the pitch, the commitment, the hard work. Of the players. Of the players and the manager, sleepless nights that they've had sacrifices that they've that they've that they've done to achieve what they've achieved you compete on the pitch yes that cheating helped them create and organize and form one of the back squad yes yes put together some yes yes but at the end of the day you compete as players it's you against i i don't want when i was competing we don't care who is in front of us.
18:51John Obi Mikel:Drogba didn't care who was in front of him. JT didn't care whether it's Aguero or Adebayo or who or David Silva. We didn't have a kid. My job is how do I fucking stop David Silva from running behind me from creating those chances? Because I want to compete against the best and they were the best. Not disrespect to Stoke City and all these teams that we come up with. But the City team back then were the best team and we were always happy to compete against them. So, fine line here, we need to be careful. It's a very sensitive subject. And I want everybody watching here do not think that John B.
19:33John Obi Mikel:Mikhail is sitting here and defending. Because that's one. I'm just trying to make sure that we find... You're trying to be more balanced as opposed to the pylon. The pylon that we've been seeing, you know, from everybody, right? Oh, do this, strip that. Everybody's so quick to jump at it, to discredit what, and people are coming and saying, Pep Guardiola is, please. His legacy is not tarnished for you. No chance. No chance Pep Guardiola's image or any of those players' image is tarnished. No chance. The players cannot control what happens in the boardroom. That's not our fucking job. It's not our fucking job.
20:11John Obi Mikel:You can't control what happens in the boardroom. What you care about is your contract. You deal with your contract. you sign a contract and you're part of its squad. That's it. And you play to your optimum. Exactly. That's not your job. What happens in the boardroom? Rodri cannot tell Alcadon, the chairman of Manchester City, what to do. No. You've signed your contract. That's your contract. You deal with it. So, for me, I don't think the players should absolutely be punished. And people saying that Pep Guardiola's image is finished. There's absolutely no chance. For me, he still remains the best manager of all time.
20:50John Obi Mikel:The absolute best manager of all time. What he's given to us, what he's given to football, transformed football. The game. What we watch today. What we watch today. I don't care what no one absolutely says. What we watch today is Pep Guardiola. What we watch today is Pep Guardiola. the fourth nine was who? Pep Guardiola. The right backs inverted full backs. Pep Guardiola. The pressing high when you lose the ball you know retrieving the ball after 5-10 seconds. Pep Guardiola. Everything. The tiki-taka that we watched today that a lot of the teams are trying to play. Pep Guardiola. You cannot tell me that you will wake up one day and say you discredit what he does, what he is giving the game.
21:45John Obi Mikel:Absolutely no chance. Absolutely. He won with Barcelona, he won with Bayern Munich and he won with Manchester City. So you cannot explain that. You'd win it with Bayern Munich, for God. I'd win it with Bayern Munich. Oh, would you? Well, what I would say. Oh, I like the fact that you just said that. So are you going to, are you going to nominate Harry Kane for Ballon d 'Or, a winner? We'll get to that. The only thing, and I can't believe I'm sticking out, I, I'd be lying if I said I've not got some sympathy for Jurgen Klopp on what he built in Liverpool. A football club that stayed in the rules, built an incredible squad playing incredible football.
Read the full transcript
22:20They missed out on the title by a point. The record a number of points won never to win the league. And yet City, and again, I know the genius of Pep, but the squad that's been comprised was comprised on funds that they shouldn't have had, or at least according to the allegations, and 114 of them have been proved, obviously have been proved by the Independent Commission. That squad has been put together by ill-gotten means that Liverpool didn't set about doing. We're looking at a summer. When was it? 2017? John, they spent 200 million quid on four fullbacks. The rules would have necessitated you could buy two but four.
23:00That plays a part in building a squad that allows Pep to rotate, allows Pep with the best talent at his disposal. And that's the bit that sticks for me. You know I'm no Liverpool fan. But when I think to a Liverpool fan or Jurgen Klopp and all his players, like really, really?
23:18John Obi Mikel:Chris, I agree with everything you've said. Everything you've said. And listen, everybody that's saying punish and punish and punish, everybody's right because they broke the rule. Listen, it's not. It's still ongoing. And that's it. It's still ongoing, right? Let's be careful here. It's still ongoing. It's still ongoing. And like we know, they're going to appeal this. It's probably going to go to high court. And then this saga is going to go on for the next two or three years. It's going to go on for a long time. Because I think they believe, they believe what has happened here. Like I just said, like I've just told you, is that again, I'm mentioning the lawyers, right?
23:56John Obi Mikel:The lawyers have come, right? And say to this, this is what we can do to get around this. These rules. These rules, right? Circumnavigate. Exactly. Navigate or whatever it is. because this is what the law, they've been paying the big box to do that, right? They come, they present, this is what we can do to get around it. And they probably looked at it and thought, okay, is it legal? Maybe, yes. Or do you get caught? And we know the rules change a lot, right? So maybe when they were presented this information, right? The rules states that it's legal what they're doing or whatever it is. And now that it's come to light, they're probably arguing that when we agreed to do this, it was legal.
24:44John Obi Mikel:Because I can't see any other thing. I can't see another thing that they're arguing about, right? They're probably saying that when we did this... They're dealing with technicalities. Yeah, yeah. Maybe the technicalities, yeah. Maybe they're just saying that when we did this, it was probably legal, but right now it's not. So, but you can't really punish us because when we decided to do it, it was legal. I don't know what they're arguing. I'm just playing devil's advocate here. So, but at the end of the day, guilty, if you found guilty, you are absolutely guilty of breaking the rules. I don't want any owner to come in and put the game into the district pool and start breaking rules.
25:20John Obi Mikel:No, that's not what we want. We want a level playing field for everybody to compete, for everybody to compete, right? That's what we want. We want, we don't want people coming to the Premier League, buying these clubs and cheating. No, that's not what we want. but is that how do we deal with dish now because again i've made i've made mentions of you like you know and and you can't sometimes i happen to know one or two of them right you can't tell them how to spend their billions but it's impossible but the premier can join because there's rules yes i know i know they have to abide by those they have to it becomes We're the wild west and we may as well pack up and head home.
26:03John Obi Mikel:No, it comes to a point whereby, is it a point whereby we don't accept the billionaires to take over? Because that might be something that just settles the whole case, right? We get millionaires, level playing field, right? You're not allowed to have a wealth over a certain amount. Exactly, exactly. So why don't we just do it? Just adhere to the rules. You can be a billionaire, but these are the rules set forth. Be transparent. And to your point, we would all be naive if we think that other - Chris, these guys, they sit on their yachts, their boats, big, big boats. Big, big boats. They compete on who has the biggest boats.
26:40John Obi Mikel:Yeah. If you have one, next two, three years, I'll go build a bigger one. Build a bigger one. They compete in that. These football clubs are toys to them. It's like a fucking toy. Yeah. They sit, play poker, have a drink, and compete to themselves in the fucking boat, massive yacht boat I've got a better team than you do no I have a better team than you do okay we'll see in the next two or three years I'm going to build a bigger squad than you do it's a fucking toy to them they don't give the money is nothing to them that's why they have to do everything to beat each other they're competing against each other but but you have to stick to the rules I get it but I'm just giving you the scenario no no what I hear you they go through and why they are who they are, right?
27:27John Obi Mikel:Because that's just who they are. They take risk, they make lots of billions, and they stay rich. But the Premier League is the Premier League. The game that we love, the game that we enjoy, cannot be a play thing. Exactly. It cannot. So we have to always hold people accountable. Hold everybody accountable. Nobody is above the rules. If you break the rules, you have to be held responsible. And that's what, when all this is said and done, if they are found guilty, they will be held accountable. They will be absolutely held accountable. But I just think the punishment is what everybody is. What is it going to be?
28:16John Obi Mikel:What is it going to be? How do the Premier League move on from it? absolutely hand out the best punishment, the biggest punishment, but also keep the reputation. Do not tarnish the reputation of the Premier League. And that's it. So for me, that is going to be the fine line. How do they find the fine line? Because Pep Guardiola is the greatest manager of all time. I don't care what anybody tells me. Kevin De Bruyne is one of the best players we've seen in the Premier League. David Silva is genius. Absolute genius that we've seen in the Premier League. Bernardo Silva, Vincent Kompany, Rodri, players that have done so much, have given so much, have made the Premier League what it is today.
29:01John Obi Mikel:The moments that we enjoy, the joy that we enjoy, that we saw, those last minute goals, those Gundogan goals, that Aguero goal, that we saw. We have to try and keep those moments. Find a fine line of punishing them. we've taken our punishment Chelsea we've found 10 million no arguments no arguments we took it we took it we move on we took it we move on we were not stripped of any titles which I think was the best punishment a fine line has to be I know the charge is 115 but a crime is a crime 115 of them John there is a crime and then there is systematic you know there's a difference between you're right a mugger on the street and Al Capone, for example.
29:49Let's just be clear. And that's not me comparing Man City to Al Capone. But let's find the fine line with the punishment.
29:54John Obi Mikel:That's all I'll say. I, well, for what it's worth, no one cares what I think, but I'm with you. I don't think there'll be stripped of titles. No, I don't think so. Transfer ban, yes. Yes, yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Four, five years, absolutely. They cannot bring in any play. Five years, huge. Huge money fine. Huge. And I think points do that because it's 140. Now, I take your point. You think an appeal that might be reduced, But if we look at it today, because it's 114, I think we're looking at points deduction. I think, put it like this, I think there's more chance of City being relegated than there is of them being stripped of tightness.
30:29John Obi Mikel:No chance. No chance. No chance. The Premier League will not deduct points that's going to make City, Manchester, no chance. I think if it did come to points. 15-20. 15-20, max. Max. 15-20. And looking at that, I think with the players, the squad that they have around, they'll stay up. They'll stay up. I don't think they're going to win the Premier League anyways. They'll stay up. They're not going to... I think what they've done, Pep Guardiola moving on, and they've brought in a manager that has managed in the championship, right? So now you think they might be getting relegated. If they do, if they do, if 2015 points, they do get relegated.
31:13They've got a block that's won it. I like your thinking. They foresaw potentially what was coming.
31:19John Obi Mikel:Hey, Chris, all this has been planned. I tell you that. Oh, Lord. It's been planned. So they know who's managed. Who's the top manager that is managed in the championship? It's Moresca. Come on in. We might need you in the championship. We might need you in the championship if it does happen. So they've planned all this. They know what's going to happen. And I think the fact that the Premier League, again, hasn't come out and made a statement. It's quite telling. It's quite telling. there's something there that is not resolved yet so let's just wait and see let's let's let's wait and see let's not be quick to to to to to jump on everything and say but but but you know i i believe that innocent until proven guilty right so let's wait until the whole thing is said and done because again for the chairman to come out and make a statement saying that is still innocent that he believes that we what they have the evidence that they have which they haven't given yet No, we haven't seen the repair.
32:13John Obi Mikel:We haven't seen it yet. So if they believe that they, they, they innocent, you know, they, they, you know, then everybody's like, I mean, we just move on. But 115, you found gets your 114. That's a lot. That's a lot. That's a lot. That's a lot. And it's just dawned on me that you are wearing a Man City blue shirt now, John. I'm not. The penny's finally dropped. Right, last one. No, but I, Chris. A joke's aside. Yeah. please right i've been in the game for over 20 25 right i played the game i know the game i know what happens in this in these boardrooms i've seen i've heard agents come and tell stories right where we know these things happen it happens a lot a lot a lot let's not be naive absolutely naive here and think it doesn't happen.
33:09John Obi Mikel:It happens every single transfer windows, right? A third party payment, somewhere, somewhere this, somewhere that. You can control all this system. It happens. Absolutely happens. If we sit here and try to be naive and say it doesn't happen, we're absolutely making a fucking mistake because it happens. is it right that it happens absolutely not because they're cheating the system but it does happen now does it make what they've done right absolutely not and that's maybe why they're going to be made an example exactly i think they have to make example of that to your point exactly i'm not naive but equally we want to try and clean up the game that we love listen if you're talking about buying plays as well manchester united have spent more money than anyone in the past six, seven years.
33:57John Obi Mikel:What have they won? Fuck all. So you can spend as much money as you want building the team that you want. But if you don't have the best manager to put that team together, you will not win anything. Sorry to say your team has been absolutely shit for the past six, seven years, but you spend more money than everyone. Your team's not been great either, John. I'll just remind you of that. No Champions League football for you this season. Or you keep winning your conference leagues. Right. I've got to ask Final one, Ballon d 'Or. You touched on it and that's a topic that a lot of people right now are discussing.
34:30Mbappe's in there. Harry Kane's in there. Who's Manny Dembele's in there. I'm seeing Laminya Mal. Even Rodri's name's cropped up again because of what he did at the World Cup. Who's getting your vote? No one.
34:43John Obi Mikel:That's a tough one. I think for the first time with the Ballon d 'Or, we can see a very contest Ballon d 'Or. Not contest, I will say, not contest, but a very wide open Ballon d 'Or because there is none of this place, all this place you've mentioned, Lamin-Yemal, Harry Kane, Mbappe, Leola Messi, Dembele, Gavaz Kelia, all these places you've mentioned, there is none. Absolutely one that you can say is a clear favorite. that you can put a finger and say, he's the one. Agreed. There's none. A lot of people talking about Harry Kane. The English media, yeah. Talking about Harry Kane. Spot on. He scored over, what, 60 goals for Bayern.
35:35He plays in the Bundesliga. Chris, Bayern Munich...
35:39John Obi Mikel:You'd get goals in the Bundesliga. You'd get goals in the Bundesliga. I'll get goals in the Bundesliga. Not just respect to Bundesliga. But Bayern Munich has been winning the Bundesliga since the Bundesliga was created. Yeah. I take the point. Since Beckham Bowen, since we had the Adidas, you know, the Adidas, the Black... Yeah. Since players were playing with those boots. Bayern Munich has been winning the Bundesliga. What they do, Bayern Munich, after every season, right? They go around the Bundesliga and they buy all the best players from all the clubs because they have the riches. They have the financial power to do.
36:19John Obi Mikel:They go and they pick all the best and they assembled, again, assembled the back sword. So you're saying that Hardikings had it easy. Of course he has. Of course he has. He's playing in Bundesliga and he's playing for the best team and he has the best players. Let's get Michael Olissi creating chances for him. He's got Luis Diaz from Liverpool creating chances for him. He's scoring goals. Michael Olissi as well has been mentioned. Yeah. they had a good season. They didn't win the Champions League. They won the Bundesliga. The Bundesliga, if you close your eyes, you just, before the start of the season, you give it to Bayern Munich.
36:58John Obi Mikel:Same with Paris Saint-Germain. Right? Usman Dembele, yes, they did win the Champions League again, which is a big, big thing. But... Because competing against the best team in Europe. He wasn't as... But he wasn't as... As he was the previous season. The previous season, yeah. Yeah, he wasn't as effective as he was in the previous season. So, Usman Dembele, I wouldn't. Kylian Mbappe scoring goals and not winning anything. Nope. As a player. Nope. You cannot be asking to win a game. I know it's an individual award, but individual award, how does it affect this team? Are you playing for yourself?
37:35John Obi Mikel:Just scoring goals. Just playing for yourself. At the end of the day, scoring goals, it needs to affect what the team has achieved, right? Yeah. but if the team hasn't won anything if you haven't won anything as a player the whole season you can't ask for a ballon it's not a goal scoring award it's not a goal scoring award exactly if we're a goal scoring award then we'll just give it to Mbappe but it's not you left Paris in German you didn't win the Champions League and now you went to the and they've stopped winning the Champions League like and you're asking to win the Ballon d 'Or and then you have Lamy and Yamal as well who didn't have the greatest of season, didn't play well in the, you know, at the World Cup.
38:21John Obi Mikel:So, there is none that you can put your finger and say, he's the one that's going to win it. And of course, you have a 39-year-old Messi who's had a great season, again, took Argentina to the World Cup finals and was very, very effective. Very effective. But, in all the games. In the club season. Until the finals. He's playing in the MLS. He plays in the MLS, which I think is a competitive league. It is a competitive league. John, you'd still play. You're all right. Come on. Come on now. Don't you dare sit there and snag on Bundesliga. Yeah, but he's a 39-year-old geezer. Yeah. That's where he is.
39:04And he's doing it.
39:04John Obi Mikel:And he's doing it. And he did it. And he did it. Not only that he was doing it at MLS. He did it at the World Cup. He did it at the World Cup. Because everybody said, oh he's playing at M &A is he going to do at the World Cup he did at the biggest stage at the biggest stage are you saying Messi so I'm not sitting here saying that Lionel Messi absolutely deserves it but if you are talking about who do you think out of everybody that we've mentioned here there's no clear absolute clear favorite for me I'll probably just give it to the test and I hear this old guy who I still believe right now the way he's still playing the way he performed at the World Cup that he was still the best player in the world He was still the best player.
39:46John Obi Mikel:We watched it. Oh, he hasn't played against England. Oh, he hasn't. Absolutely destroyed England. Yeah, he did. Single-handedly destroyed England. At 39 years old, tackles everything, shielding, running, creating. He did it. So, there is no clear favor. But, if you're asking me, I think if Argentina, has won the World Cup. Good night. Good night. Finish. Just give it to Messi. Just give it to Messi. But still taking them to the World Cup final and doing what he did. You know, throughout the World Cup, every day we were looking, watching the World Cup and thinking, not again. He's not going to do it.
40:30John Obi Mikel:And he comes again and he does it. He scores a hat-trick. He creates chances. When your team is down, when your team is down, as a top, top player, how do you pull them through? He did that. He did that. Against England. They were down. They were dead and buried. Dead and buried. Until he decided, you know what? I'm going to shift to the right flag here. That's ball knowledge. That's a player that reads the game. Now, when you talk about differences again between him and the other bloke, which I'm not going to mention, that is somebody who reads the game. That's somebody who knows the game. Intelligence of the game.
41:12John Obi Mikel:Knowing that, okay, you've blocked me through the middle I'm going to shift there to the right hand side find a weakness and as soon as he did that find the weakness started creating chances causing England all sorts of problems they didn't know what to do Elliot Anderson didn't know if he has to go to the fucking right hand flank to defend Messi Declan Rice doesn't know if he has to go there and stand with Messi that's how you create problems now do you want to come with me there or you're going to stay there because if you don't I'll create chances I'll cause you problems that's what he did pulling your team through at the biggest, biggest stages is just incredible.
41:47John Obi Mikel:And knowing again, playing through now that we, after the World Cup, did find that his dad was sick. Playing through that pain, that emotion, dragging your team through that, playing with that emotion is absolutely huge. Because I know my dad was being kidnapped. I know the feeling of this. But for him to go through that, knowing that his dad has a few months or two days to leave and to keep performing, to keep dragging that Argentina team to the World Cup in which he did, it's just incredible. Whoever wins it, fair play to them. Fair play to them. But I don't think they absolutely deserve it.
42:34John Obi Mikel:But since there's no clear, clear favorite, I just think the way Lionel Messi performed during the World Cup and still performing. When you watch him play, he's still the best player in the world. Right. Everyone will have a view on that. John, everyone will have a view. As they should. Everybody has their own opinion. Yeah, comment below if you're watching this on YouTube. Taking the Mikel, always enlightening, always enjoyable. And of course, England against, you know, England's Thomas Tuchel and Cole Palmer. You know, I just want to mention that. I know a lot of people have had their say about that.
43:11John Obi Mikel:Listen, is the kid a bit upset that he wasn't selected for the World Cup? Yes. Absolutely. I will be because he's a top-top player. The reason why he didn't go to the World Cup baffles me. There is no reason why you will pick all those defenders, all those players that you picked, and there was no Cole Palmer. Yeah. There was no Trent Alexander-Arnold. You know, there was no... Phil Ford, okay, was not having the best season. so the the Cole Palmer yes but those players you need them to create chances when things are not happening and England absolutely did not have those maverick of players that will create something out of nothing a Cole Palmer coming into games during that World Cup I just thought you never know what's gonna happen with Cole Palmer you never know what he's what he's gonna do so for me I just think Thomas Tuchel missed a trick there and now it's like okay I made a mistake now you're back in the squad now i didn't need you during the summer but now i need you now you have to come and the way he spoke as well when he made the announcement oh yeah they want to compete all of them now they have now come and show yourself a col palmer is not a player that will have to come and prove himself show himself we know he's a world-class player trent ellison on yes maybe not the best defenders in the world but what he gives you going forward what he gives there's no player like that there's no player like that maybe a rich james with his crosses and passes as well, maybe.
44:33John Obi Mikel:But what Trent Alexander gives you with the ball, it's a no-brainer. So not having all those players and then now calling, you know, the new squad now, okay, now you can come and prove yourself and show yourself. They're not on trials, mate. You can't bring Cole Palmer and Trent Alexander and say they're on trials. No. You can understand, Cole. I can understand. Listen, you have to be available for your national team at all times. That's something I have to say and that's something I have to stand for. But when you are selecting your squad to go to the world of the biggest stage in the world. Surely if they're not starting, they should be on the bench.
45:10John Obi Mikel:Surely. Surely. They should be on the bench. They should be on that plane. They should absolutely be on that plane. Is he holding a garage? Yes. Cole Palmer is holding a garage. He's making a statement. Yeah. He's absolutely making a statement. Yeah. And as a player, I can understand. I can understand. where he's coming from. Is he right? No. But I can understand. That's all I can say about it. If he decides, whenever he decides he wants to come back to the national team, fair play to the kid. He's made his statement. He's had his say and he has to move on. He has, at some point, he has to come back and continue because he's a fantastic player and England absolutely do need him.
45:50John Obi Mikel:Thomas Tuchel do need him. And watching that game as well, there is, what is the identity of this England squad? what is the system what is the philosophy he's had his time now with this team it's like having a bunch of good players and just throwing them on the pitch and say go play the original identity the original system there's nothing every time they come up against the top teams in the world they come up short they come up short and thomas tokel was brought into that team to fix that to fix that yeah and so far he's failed to do that he's failed to do i'm a big fan of thomas tokel big big fan i love him what he did for chelsea i was against the owners sacking him i was a i was against it i'm a big big fan but so far he's filled with this england squad because every time i watched him every time they come up against a top top team they come up short yeah and he was brought in to correct that to fix that and i'm sure the fa did have a word with him after the world cup which yeah he did have a meeting with them and he was told off so rightly so because he was brought in to fix those situations whereby in the semifinals, England are trying to get over the line.
47:07John Obi Mikel:Thomas Tuchel was that guy to make those big calls. He made those big calls and he absolutely failed. And every time I watch this England squad, there is no identity. There is no cohesion between the players. There is no system. I know it's hard because when you have those players for two, three days, it's difficult to straight away get them to jail and start playing the way you want. But as a top manager, that you have to find. You have to create that. That's why he's been brought in to fix that. And so far, he hasn't done that. Every time they play against a smaller team, you expect England to dominate the position.
47:37John Obi Mikel:You expect England to create chances to score goals. That's where we see Harry Kane flourish and score. Come up against a big team. That's why. And win. It's going to be a big couple of weeks. It will be. A big couple of weeks. It will be. And Thomas Tuchel, is he under pressure? Yes. Yeah. Is he under pressure? Yes. He should be under pressure. He's got to get results. He needs to get results. He needs to get results. And if he doesn't fix it quickly, I mean, you know, he has to. Because England has, when you look at the squad, when you look at the players, the best players in the world, Jude Bellingham, Declan Rice, Bakayi Saka, Harry Kane.
48:17John Obi Mikel:You mentioned Arnie. Despite the fact he's playing in the Bundesliga. You know, some of the best. But again, you know, it's that thing. and the defense is something he needs to absolutely sort out. The defense, you know, since the likes of John Stones and all these players have left, you know, Kai Walker, England have struggled to fix that defense. They've struggled to fix that defense. They have some good players right now, you know. Konsa Gehi. Konsa Gehi. They're the two best partners, you know. Konsa played right now. O 'Reilly is very, very good on the ball. Is he the best defender? Maybe not.
48:53John Obi Mikel:The way City plays He favours him. He flourishes in the system, the way City plays, you know, because he's more attacking. He's more, you know, a player that goes into the box, call goals, and that Pep Guardiola gave him that licence to do that. In England, is he restricted to do that? So there's a lot of questions and answers, you know, with this England squad. And he needs to absolutely find a way to fix that. And that's why it is a big couple of weeks for Thomas Tuchel. Right, taking the Mikel done and dusted. Just want to mark your card. Obi-Wan podcast made possible by Betwinner. Next big interview, Andre Villas-Boas did very well.
49:29Yeah. You can still check it out on our YouTube and of course across all podcast platforms. It's Villian. That's the next one. Former teammate of yours. He is the next big interview on Monday, this upcoming Monday for that as well. Right, John. Bless you, my man. We'll get the legal team. I hope the lawyers do. Exactly. You've taken my gag from me. We'll get the legal team to watch this back. Hopefully we're not in jail the next time we catch up. Yeah, top right.
From the publisher
John Obi Mikel and Chris McHardy have their say on the bombshell news that Manchester City have been found guilty of 114 charges related to breaches of Premier League regulations.
What does this mean for the club moving forward? What is a suitable punishment should the guilty verdict be upheld? And what’s the impact on Pep Guardiola’s managerial legacy? The guys discuss it all in this episode of Taking the Mikel.
Obi also takes aim at the contenders for this year’s Ballon d’Or and reveals who’d get his vote, while Thomas Tuchel’s treatment of Cole Palmer is also a bone of contention.
