Enzo-ball claims ‘biggest scalp’? Caicedo the ‘world’s best’

0:01Well, it is another edition of Taking the Mikel. Only this time, for the first time in a while, John, you've got two happy campers. Yeah, we're smiling. We're both happy, aren't we? You're delighted. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You guys only beat Sunderland. That's it. So calm down. Calm your horses down, Manchester United fans. It's not all resolved yet. It's not all... No, fair. Happy camper. Let's put it that way. It's only Sunderland. But I just thought Sunderland didn't show up in that game. The way they've started the season, I thought they showed Manchester United way too much respect. So yeah, but credit to United.

0:33You guys found the way to win, but I did watch the game. But it's a good win, a good win. We'll take it. Let's put it that way. First time in a long time. So yeah, Ruben Amron is a happy man. He's a happy man. He's in a job. So yeah, it's right. He's still got a job. Yeah, exactly. For a couple of weeks. I was hearing a couple of stories about that. We'll maybe touch on that this episode. Right. We've got loads to unpack. Esteván Villan. And we'll get an awful lot of mentions as well, Moises Casado, as we go. But first things first, we've got to start. We're going to be on a flight to London in the coming days, John.

1:05You are donning the football boots again for that Legends match at Stamford Bridge. You're looking in fine fettle. And then all eyes on the Clapham Grand, Monday, October 13th. You and I were the one and only John Terry. Yes, we are with the man. Leader, captain, the man who blids blue. Chelsea Football Club. When you talk about Chelsea Football Club, you talk about John Terry. John Terry, Frank Lampard. These guys obviously built the football club, but JT is Chelsea. And of course, yeah, to have him as a guest for the live show event, it's going to be brilliant. It's going to be great. Always nice to have JT, you know, a man who has all the insight about, you know, the football club.

1:48And, you know, it's going to be great to also talk about how we've finished now we've come to international break. The great win against Liverpool and how he sees us going forward and potentially winning the Premier League. The cameras will be away because I'll be asking some tough questions as well. I want the secrets. I want to find out exactly what Jose Mourinho is like, Ed and Hazard and the rest. Tickets still available. Tickets are going fast. Your opportunity to come on down. We invite you to do just that. It's not often you have... Yeah, they're selling fast. They're selling fast. Not often.

2:24We've got you and JT together reminiscing about the good old times. So if you're in the vicinity, if you're at a loose end, Monday, October the 13th, do pop one down, Clapham Grand in London. It is the Obi-Wan podcast powered by Betwinner. And it is, of course, an event that is very much for you guys out there. So tickets available. The link has just popped up if you're watching this on our YouTube channel. It's going to be a great event. It will be a great event. It's going to be amazing. In London as well. We're going to have all the Chelsea fans there. And of course, you have a chance, the opportunity to, you know, ask some questions, win some great prizes and stuff, gifts.

3:02So it's going to be fantastic. And it's always nice when you get to hear from the fans as well, when the fans can be able to ask me and JT questions on how we see the football club, how we see the football club going forward and what they think, how do they see the club going forward. so it's always brilliant to have that conversation between you know the legends of the club and of course and the fans because obviously there is no football club without the fans the fans are the football club so it's always important to get their insight on how they see us going forward yeah I'm looking forward to it so we'll see you there is the message and tell you what the Chelsea fans that are coming on down there'll be an extra little pep in their step after what we witnessed this weekend you were straight on the Whatsapps John after this.

3:47You were like, guys, Estevão, incredible. What an end. What an end to the game. Fantastic game. I thought we started the game really, really well. It's been a long time. I think since the final in New York, I think this is the first time I've seen us play really, really well. We played with a lot of a lot of determinations, a lot of courage, a lot of confidence. Started the game really, really well. You know, we were in control of the game. We played so well. playing out from the back. Everything was working out so well. I think in the first half, there was no point in time in that first half that I say Liverpool had any control of the game because they were so open and we were just picking them out.

4:29You know, there was so much pockets in that Liverpool team that we were just playing around them, playing through them. It was just so easy. It was just so open for us because they didn't know what to do, whether to press us or whether to sit deep. And every time they tried to press us, we were so comfortable playing out from the back. Caicedo, Enzo Fernandez, Regis James. And for such a long time, I've talked about it so many times, our defense were brilliant. A chimpong, young, talented player. Fantastic. He was fantastic, wasn't he? Strong, quick, good on the ball, likes to play out from the back.

5:12And Buddy Achille as well. You know, you can't say We haven't said this often in this sport here Give him credit, he was really, really good On Saturday, he played really, really well He was confident on the ball First time we'll say that on this spot He was confident on the ball, he looked solid He looked assured of himself Until he got injured I thought he was brilliant Both centre-backs were brilliant And he was a makeshift centre-back as well He wasn't anywhere near our first choice centre-backs But they were absolutely brilliant The two of them were absolutely brilliant at Chimpong. Every time I see the kid play, so much potential for such a young player.

5:49So much potential. He's tall. I think he's just good. He has so many years ahead of him. He's just going to improve and get stronger physically, physical as well. He needs to get stronger. He needs to get in the gym. I think if he does that, he's going to be a brilliant player. Very good on the ball. Quick. He had Isak on his pocket. I think a couple of times when he went to duels, he won those challenges. And that's what you want to see from a young player coming up against one of the best strikers in the Premier League and was able to do that, was able to play the way he did, was absolutely brilliant.

6:20Every time I watch the kid play, I always say, this kid is something. He's the real deal. He's the real deal. I think he has the potential to be a really good player for us. And the confidence you'll get from that, John, because to your point, listen, Alexander Isak is not quite at the races yet. I'm not quite sure he's totally at 100 % match fit, but he's still Alexander Isak. He is still the British transfer record signing and he was magnificent. Oh, he was magnificent. He was top, top, top. I think both centre-backs played really, really well. Rhys James, again, fantastic Rhys James. And it's so often we say it here.

6:53When you always have your captain in the team, it makes a massive, massive difference. I have nothing against Rhys James. I've always said it. I think I bumped it to him in London once and I said it. I said to him, listen, mate, I have nothing against all I want is to see you on the pitch because if you are on the pitch, it makes such a massive difference for us because he's a brilliant player, brilliant player. And when you're on that pitch, when you're constantly available on the pitch to your players, to your team, to your manager for selection, it breeds so much confidence. And you can see slowly but surely, naturally, his leadership quality is starting to show.

7:31His leadership quality is starting to come out. He doesn't have to force it. It's just coming out because he's constantly playing now. He's constantly feet playing. and we can see that. I mean, he's brilliant. And when you talk about a captain, when we're looking for, when we have those two, Badia Shield and Achim Pong injured, taken out from the, you know, from the game, who steps up and say, you know what? I am the captain. I'm the leader. I'm going to go and play center back. He went and played center back. That's what you need from me, captain. JT played once in goal. That's why you talk about captain.

8:03You talk about leaders. And I love to see that from Bruce James. You know, he said, listen, I am the captain. I'm going to go and play in the center because you need me there because we have the two players injured, two center backs, makeshift center backs injured. Now I have to go and play there, you know, at the center back. And it's just what you need from your captain. But I thought everybody in that game was absolutely magnificent. Kukurela had Mo Salah on his pocket all day. All day. Had Mo Salah on his pocket all day. Kukurela was absolutely brilliant. Reese James. And again, do we have to talk about him again?

8:38How good. How good is he? I said, brilliant. Like again, brilliant, brilliant. Yeah, coming from the player that we watched, his first game, remember his first game at the club? I remember. Everybody said, oh my God, what a waste of money. What a waste of money. But the kid knows exactly who he is and every time he finishes the game, what I love about him, it doesn't matter how he played. Back then when he was having the worst games at the club, after every game he knelt down and prayed. He believed in something and prayed. And it's so good to see that he kept it in his belief, knowing that he will come good.

9:19And he still does it. And he's been absolutely brilliant. I mean, now he's chipping in goals. It's not only breaking up plays and setting up plays and driving ball forward, driving play forward, getting us off the pitch. He's scoring goals. Something that I never did. I know, by the way. Something that I never did. It's something that Claude McAuley never did. You know, but, you know, he's doing it. He's chipping in goals. But that's why when you talk about those positions, those positions have changed. Now they have so much freedom going forward. I think back in our day also, we're kind of restricted.

9:54But it's not an excuse, but we were restricted, obviously, by the managers that we play, tactical reasons. You know, like I always said, Jose Mourinho will not let you cross the center line. You know, where are you going? But nowadays, you want your holding players. I mean, Rodri has changed, transformed that position. And I would give, it is Rodri. Rodri has transformed that position. You know, the way he played that position, the way he started chipping in goals, creating chances, not just sitting there breaking plays. And now we can see Enzo Fernandes doing that. And again, I thought Fernandes was absolutely brilliant.

10:29It's the first time since winning the Club World Cup, that final, we were aggressive. We were first to everything. We never gave them time on the ball. We were so, so focused on everything we did. I thought in that first half, we were absolutely brilliant. Some of our players playing out from the back was incredible. It was so easy for us. Liverpool couldn't get anywhere near us. They couldn't get anywhere near us. It was so easy. They tried to press. We were playing out from the back. And no, it was so good. You couldn't see the likes of Ravensburg, McAllister, Sobo's like, they didn't have any time on the ball.

11:04And that's something we did really, really well. He's come across this template, John. We saw it against PSG in that final. You talk about Rhys James, Mr. Chelsea, the new Mr. Chelsea, willing to go anywhere. He's not there yet, mate. Okay. Sorry, JT. Not there yet, Rhys. You're getting there. He's going to play more. But the versatility of the man. We've started to see this new template where in the big games, he comes in to partner Moises, frees up Enzo to play just a little bit higher. And we know he presses from the front. I thought, Enzo, you're right. out of possession for that first half an hour.

11:36Yeah. Pressed really well. Pressed really, really well. But then Moises and Rhys. Rhys, physically, he's a monster. And I want to come back to Moises. I don't think there's a midfielder in world football right now that does what he does. In possession, out of possession. There is none. And he's humble. He's humble. The kid is in the original. There is no midfield player right now that can give you everything that Kayseru gives us right now. He's absolutely magnificent. Breaking up plays, setting up plays. You know, he's first to everything. He's aggressive. He's a leader as well. Like he's a complete football player, chipping in now with goals, taking shots from outside the box.

12:19He's absolutely worth every penny. He's worth every penny. Kaisedo is worth every single penny we pay for him. It's brilliant. It's brilliant to watch him. And it's brilliant to watch us play the way we did. And again, credit to Enzo Fernandes. I love Enzo Mariska. I've said it so many times. He is a coach that knows how to coach this team to bring out the best of this young Chelsea side. You know, a manager could have said, you know, we're coming up against the champions of England, Liverpool. Let's play differently. No, we played the same way. We were very confident on, we were so assured on the ball, playing out from the back.

12:56We're so much confident, with so much belief. and we played the way we always did. So for me, everything we did was absolutely brilliant. And you have Pedro Neto as well, who I thought was absolutely brilliant. Fantastic. Played really, really well. Direct every time he had the ball, he was running behind people. He, you know. And the shift he puts in the other way. Not just going forward. I love that. The shift he puts going back, trying to defend, tracking his man back. It's brilliant. There was one time, you know, he chased, what's his name? The left back from Liverpool. he chased him a couple of times and yeah back and trying to track back so that's what you want from from your players not just going forward because we know how brilliant every player can be going forward it's what you do when you don't have the ball how do you help the team how do you help your teammates how do you put in that shift to make sure that we don't concede goals that is the difficult part in the game that is the difficult part that's the part that you don't want to do like oh do i need to chase back yes yeah that is the most difficult part and when you You see top players doing it, players that are good going forward, doing what they have to do to help the team defend.

14:02It's absolutely brilliant. And Jao Pedro as well, I thought was absolutely brilliant. Not just coming short as well, linking on play. He was running behind Van Dijk and Conate. He gave them a hard time. He gave them a hard time. And Van Dijk, we talk about how good he is. Every time he came to the bridge, I've watched him for so many years. He's never had a good game in Stafford Bridge. Never. Van Dijk. Never. I remember back in the day, the Liverpool side that always came to play us at Stamford Bridge. They were very aggressive. Very aggressive. The likes of Steven Gerrard, Mascherano, Xabi Alonso.

14:39Very aggressive. Now when Liverpool come to play us at Stamford Bridge, it's like a walk in the park. There's no tackles. There's no spirit. There's nothing. The only time I saw them in that game on Saturday was when, you know, we had our two centre-backs got injured and we had to take them off and we had Rich James go to Deputais, you know, center back, you know, we had again a makeshift center back and I think that just disrupt the way we were playing. You just disorganized our setup and that's where Liverpool now came into the game and then of course they got equalizer and tried to put pressure on us.

15:12Yeah, they didn't have a spell in the game. I think that's seven and a half where they were on top of us. They were pushing to get a win but we kept on playing the way we did. If you watch the second goal, we scored, man. Oh. We played out from the back. Yeah, I know. We played out from the back. Tiki Taka. You know what I mean? He's principal. To do that and for that to end up as a goal was absolutely brilliant. And of course, Estaville to get that goal was brilliant. Brilliant. You know, a young player. What is he now? 18? Still 18. 18 years old. New country. New country. Environment, language, culture.

15:46Yeah. New club. Yeah. And everyone's talking about him, John. It's not just the goal and everyone says, oh, you're jumping onto Estaval just because he scored. No. there's been a buzz around this kid from the minute you got him all the big clubs wanted him Chelsea did remarkably well to sell him the vision I believe Thiago Silva had a quick word in his ear as well I think there was some you know certainly some of the Brazilians had a chat with him but he is worth his weight in gold there's a reason you asked the question to Oscar by the way there's a reason you asked is he going to be a future Ballon Donovan if people are saying we're jumping onto it because he's called that episode has been recorded way before exactly way before yesterday I didn't ask the question just after he's got two minutes after he's got the goal, didn't I?

16:29You were like, guys, we got to get because he has got Ballon d 'Or potential. He's got that. The kid is that good. He's brilliant. He's brilliant. When you watch him play, he's got the ball. He's quick, isn't he? He's quick. Confident. Confident. He likes to take people on. And that's what you want from a young player. A player who's assured of himself. He's assured of his abilities. He knows what he can do. And every time he has the ball, he's very direct. He likes to go past people and create chances. And when he doesn't do that, I watch him. He's always, sort of he gets angry with himself when things are not going well.

17:05Because you can see he wants to do well. You know, he wants to do well. He wants to take people on. And it's so nice to see that a young player at that age already is thinking about creating chances and scoring goals. Sometimes when you're at that age, you just want to be on the pitch. You just want to be on the pitch and the team. You just want to play. But to see a young player already thinking about. Responsibility. responsibilities, creating chances, scoring goals. And it's brilliant to see him come in. He wasn't sulking. I didn't start the game. He came into the game with so much belief, happiness, joy to play such a big game, such a big fixture at home at Stamford Bridge, you know, in front of our Chelsea fans.

17:40And to get the winner against one of our biggest rivals where Liverpool was absolute. And to give us the win, the three points that we deserve was absolutely brilliant. Fantastic. But again, we need to make sure that we're not just getting players sent off. Now we're getting our manager center. I tell you what, no joke. But it was brilliant to see Enzo Moreska do what he's done because I've talked about it so many times. I need to see a bit more connection with him and our fans. And I just think that a little bit of that, the Mourinho X has probably was something that we need. We needed to see from him.

18:15And I think that's just going to bring him much, much closer to the fans. And that's what our fans want to see. you know, sprinting down that corner flank to celebrate with the players was absolutely brilliant. If he gets sent off for that week in, week out, I'll take that. But you know what? What you've said there is bang on because I know you sit and you defend Enzo in this podcast and I always like to trawl through the comments and you get a lot of supporters for you, John. The beauty of football, the beauty of sport, everyone's got an opinion. No one's necessarily right. No one's necessarily wrong.

18:43There's still a large swathe of the Chelsea fans that are not convinced by Enzo, but you've said it right there. that connection that connection on Saturday night because Enzo I feel at times can be quite robotic he is yeah but on Saturday night it was the emotion it was emotion and I do feel that connection maybe from that and who knows and I'm sure a lot of people will leave their comments on this episode but I'm totally with you on that the unbridled joy Enzo with his players exactly brilliant and that's what and that's what that's how you play it with the emotion the fans wants to see their motion.

19:20And, you know, the motion is important when you play football, when you're a manager. Your fans, your players, wants to see their motion from their manager. They want to see that. And that's why when I look at Ruben Amaran sometimes, with him going like this all the time, not watching his captain take a penalty, shaking his head, your players, when they see that, it's not a good look. It's not a good sign to your players. You're telling your players that you don't believe in them and they don't believe in you. So for me to see Enzo Moreska do that, I think that brings him a step closer to the Chelsea fans.

19:55I agree. The Chelsea fans are tough, tough fans for you to connect with. You have to find a way to connect with our fans. Our fans are loyal, brilliant fans, but you have to find a way to connect with them. And Jose Mourinho mastered that, mastered that, mastered that. He knew what our fans are like. He knew exactly how to play to our fans. And I think by Enzo doing that, it was absolutely brilliant. Running down, sprinting down. I mean, I didn't know Enzo can sprint like that. He's done his hamstring. I think he did his hamstring, didn't he? Sprinting down, the torch, you know, there, celebrating with the players, with the fans, jumping in there was something that I was so happy to see.

20:37You know, it's been a long time we've seen a manager do that since the days of Mourinho. Mourinho used to do that quite a lot, but it's been a long time we've seen a manager do that and to see Enzo do that, I just think that brings him a step closer to the fans with his players because the players feel that emotion. You know, your manager is there celebrating with your last minute winner against Liverpool. You know what I mean? Under the license, Stanford Bridge. The place was pumping. Everybody was jumping. It was brilliant. I was sitting in my house watching the game. I was screaming down the TV.

21:09I was just shouting, you know, so it was... I love that. Yeah, it was, you know, it was just brilliant to see that. but a great, great win for us. And I think this win, this tough win, this difficult win is something that we need. We needed that. I think just maybe this might just kickstart our season now. I think obviously we haven't started the season really with playing well, but I think winning this game, we will take a lot of confidence out of this game, a lot of belief that we can go and beat the big boys. I've always said it in this sport. Playing against the big teams, I'm not so worried about that because I think going into big games, I believe that we can beat the big ball.

21:47Yeah, I agree. I genuinely believe that. Tactically, I agree. Tactical-wise, because they will come out to press us. In the Premier League, in the world right now, I can put my money on it. And I think Pebble Wardle will have come out and said it once or twice. There is no better team that can play out from the back than we do. He did say that. There is no better team. I think Mikel Arteta was pretty sick. There is no better team that can play out from the back than we do. We know how to find the pockets. because when you have Enzo Fernandez and Caicedo there, two players that are very, very good on the ball, that have the confidence from the manager, we are so good.

22:21We know how to find the pockets. When you have Rich James drifting from that right back, coming into that midfield to create, to overload that midfield, we know how to find the spaces. And if we can play, whenever we play against the big side, against the big team, we always find the world winning. My problem is the smaller teams, the so-called smaller teams. There's no smaller teams right now in the Premier League. when they come and sit. When they come and sit back and say, okay, come show us what you have. Come break us down. We've struggled to do that. We've drawn so many of those games. We have to find the way of winning those games.

22:53The big games, I'm not so worried about it because I have the belief that we can beat any team right now in the Premier League. I agree. But the smaller teams, we need to find the way of winning those games. Tactically, I want to ask this question. It's a really unfair one, but I'm going to ask it anyway. I know this little man, I say little man, diminutive man, won the Premier League, he won the Champions League. But is Moises Kacedo now in the same breath as N 'Golo Kante? Is he trending that way, John? Honestly? N 'Golo Kante was a different animal. But I love... I'm watching now. N 'Golo Kante is a fucking different animal.

23:27Are you still having him night and day? I love both. I love both of them. I love both of them. N 'Golo Kante was just too quick, too good. Can't get him his way. out of any situation because he was so fast. He was too good and he can run all fucking day and night. This guy can run. But Caicedo can do that as well. But I think both of them are pretty much equal. If I have to choose, that's a tough pick. That's a tough pick. It's amazing how you find him. Claude, I'm going to throw you in there. Michael Essien, can't take Caicedo. You've had a rich history in recent, in the last 20 years. Yeah. Chelsea and midfielders that can, you know, mix it.

24:13There's something with African heritage. We have the best holding me for players. Well, look, Mike, I say about the South American as well, but you're right. I mean, there's been a lineage, a real history of Chelsea having midfielders that can literally do a bit of everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, we've always been lucky with that. We've always been lucky to have those players, holding players that, you know, we've always had. good, good holding players, which is, you know, which is brilliant. You know, I think obviously back in the day was, you know, was different. We just wanted to sit there and break up players.