Gary Lineker Unfiltered: BBC Row, Sh*tting Himself & Why Ronaldo Isn’t On Messi’s ‘Level’

19:37Chris McHardy:I mean, it's just a bit of fun, isn't it? It was fun in the end, but I felt I had to do it. But I'm glad I had to do it because the Leicester thing was just the most, one of the most joyous things I've ever lived through. For it to happen to a team, we know that's impossible. I mean, the season before, they won seven games near the end of the season to avoid relegation by a few points. So it was just extraordinary. They just had the right time. Other clubs were in transition. They found, you know, Kante and Mahrez, which made all the difference. Vardy was incredible. Schmeichling gone, that spine.

20:20Chris McHardy:That spine. That spine was... I saw Robert Hoos, who was interviewed, and he said, how can you win a league with that back four? Which was a bit harsh, I thought. But, you know, kind of journeymen, weren't they? In many ways. And he just said, N 'Golo Kante. he said he was just I mean he was unbelievable at that

20:44John Obi Mikel:role he won the league the next season we won the league next season with us as well I mean what a player what a player I spoke last week about how important he was you know to the team Chelsea team you know when we won the league and what Moise Caicedo is you know right now if I'll ask you both of them I mean you watch both of them who would you if you have to win a game today and I say Gary you have to pick one of them. Who do you go for? Conte in his peak.

21:09Chris McHardy:Canter in his peak.

21:11John Obi Mikel:Yeah.

21:14Chris McHardy:Canter's got a bit more in terms of bang one in as we've seen. Yeah. But I'll always take Conte.

21:20John Obi Mikel:Yeah.

21:21Chris McHardy:I mean, he was unbelievable. I mean, Canter is starting to, he's gradually improved, gradually improved and he could go further and challenge N 'Golo in that sense. But at the minute, you know, N 'Golo's won it all. Yeah. And he's, you know, World Cup. I mean, he's one of them I mean he was on it that phrase that water's 75 % and the rest is on the local it's just I mean and I'm slightly biased because of what he did for Leicester because that's us talking about individuals who had a big impact a big say on an outcome you know I look through the list of players you played with played against Gary who for you is the player in all of your career that had the biggest impact Whether that be on teammates, on the pitch.

22:09Chris McHardy:Well, I moved around a bit, so it wouldn't necessarily be a club. So I'll go country and Peter Beardsley. Peter was a fantastic footballer. And we played up front together, but Beardsley wasn't like a, you know. Generally, in my days, we played 4-4-2. So there were two strikers, often a big man and small man. Diminutive soul. The skillful one, they put it out. But Peto came in and it was during the World Cup in Poland. I mean, in Mexico against Poland. He came into that game and we played up front together, but we were two fairly diminutive players. So it was different, but we started to gel. And there were some great things about Peto.

22:56Chris McHardy:And I saw him the other night and we were talking about the fact that he didn't really like to go in the box much. He kind of dropped deep and he loved that. and he'd work hard and he could beat people. He had skills and then he'd knock it out wide and stuff. And he was also very unselfish, whereas I was the opposite. I was a goal scorer. And the thing about people, I often hear in the punditry world where they go, oh, they're not getting enough bodies in the box. Now, for me as a striker, that's a joy not to have too many bodies in the box because if you've got bodies in the box, they bring more bodies in the box Exactly.

23:32Chris McHardy:And therefore, there's less space to attack. I agree. And so, with Peter not going in the box too often, I just found more space. And also, he was a great guy to play with. I mean, he said it was great. And he was so unselfish. I mean... I think I scored about a goal a game when I was playing with him.

23:53John Obi Mikel:Really? For England, yeah. Wow. Okay. I mean, talk about the World Cup. I'll take you back to your special moment, 1990. game against Ireland

24:03Chris McHardy:there are a few good ones you could have mentioned first he's gone straight yeah well you shit yourself Gary shit your pants I know things you'll do for your country you know they talk about patriotism that's true patriotism you shit you carry on so I was I'd been a bit ill overnight and I was struggling I don't know whether I'd eaten something or dodging we've all been there on the pitch no this is it though so I wake up in the morning it's our opening game we're playing Republic of Ireland I want to play so I didn't tell him I didn't tell I didn't tell Bobby Robson I don't want to give him a chance to leave me out so I thought I've sold you through yeah being a tough guy that I never was so so we we're in the dressing room before the game and I'm I think oh god this could be for the first half I'm cramping but I managed to hold off to half time go again second half I think it should be alright I don't know what it's about now I've gone in the game and the ball goes over and I'm starting to cramp and the ball goes over to their full back their left back so I run out as you used to have to do in 4-4-2 in those days chase the full back down and I've kind of slid in with the tackle like that and as I've done so I've relaxed and I've just gone oh no it's just like I mean it's gross but it was everywhere well you were lucky wasn't and the thing is Gary Stevens was playing right back for us then from the Everton Gary Stevens came over and he went you okay Lynx I went and it's funny no one had ever spotted this for 20 years 20 years I was asked in an interview somebody said to me by the last question he said there's a rumour going around that you you shit yourself in Italia 90 I went and I told the story and And then it became this big thing.

26:00Chris McHardy:But anyway, Gary Stevens comes over and he looks down and he goes, okay, Lynx, I went, I'll shoot my phone. And now, if you look back at the footage, you can see it. I did this morning, yeah. Whatever turns you on.

26:16Chris McHardy:And then I'm scooping it. You were trying to scoop it on the dog's thing. Thankfully, it rained. You rained. You were lucky. The mosquitoes were all over me after that. But I did get a little bit of space from their defenders. They backed off a bit. But do you know what? The worst thing of all, the worst thing of all, it's not necessarily that, is that, you know, I was obviously struggling and Bobby Robson took me off with about 10, 12 minutes to go. So I come over and you know what it's like, the dugouts. They're always next to the tunnel. Not in Cagliari, but on the side of the pitch. So I have to go off and sit on the dugout with his long bench all the subs loads of subs in the World Cup and they're all sliding away from me because because I'm honking I mean oh oh my god dreadful I just brought that's a weird and then the thing then Twitter being Twitter so then for years and years and years I don't know how long it went away for every time I tweeted anything whatever the subject say I was going on I'm going on Mikel's podcast that would be chat on Mikel chat on Mikel chat on podcast chat on and it'd be all the way for about a hundred would be whatever I talked about if I talked about you know having a beer chat on beer chat on whatever kind of beer honestly it was relentless it it tickled me for a while so it's quite funny but then he got a little bit too so then they brought in this thing and you could block one word so I blocked chat

27:51they've worked out they've worked shit they've worked oh no sorry anyway thanks for

27:57Chris McHardy:bringing that up that is bloody brilliant and just on 90 obviously famous scene of course of Gaza can I ask this question of you 86 corner final the little rascal as Sir Bobby called Diego hand of God the rest of history semi-final defeat to Germany on penalties in 90 which hurt the most which took you longer to get over Gary semi-final yeah the Maradona game was I don't think I thought we were a good team in 90 I thought we were really strong I think we were better than 86 in a way certainly defensively so I don't know and also I couldn't be that disappointed in the World Cup I won the Golden Boots and it was life changing I mean and we're strikers so having said that obviously you're still completely choked when you get beat especially under those circumstances handed but But to go to the semi-final and lose on...

28:58Chris McHardy:We were so close, you know, so close to... You know, if you win a World Cup, that's footballing immortality. Right, yeah. We'd have fancied our chances in the final, because we'd been playing well in that World Cup. We had some good performance in that World Cup. And not some not good... I mean, to win a World Cup, you need to grind it out. So the penalty shootout thing, because that's so close, so close. whereas I still think we'd have had a lot to do in Mexico. And also, even without the hand of God, I'm not sure, you know, he was the difference anyway. I mean, what player? Yeah. Played him all.

29:35Yeah, he got some good.

29:36Chris McHardy:Yeah. So good. Did you know on the pitch? I didn't. I was at the halfway line, obviously. I never went back for corners. And, or for, I think it was a start with a free kick or something. Anyway, I was at the other end of the pitch. and I didn't see it, but it was obvious from the reaction. You know when players are genuine, they knew. You have three or four of them going, I haven't bought, I haven't bought. Yeah, but I mean, it was clever the way he did it. Yeah. It was when I saw it. You need the slow motion to see it, really. Yeah. I mean, I think you've done that before. Clever. I don't know.

30:14Chris McHardy:But the second goal. But do you know what? You know if there's VAR, his second goal, which I think is probably the greatest goal ever scored. I agree. If there's VAR now, that goal will be disallowed. Really? If you go back to the bit just before he gets the ball, which they generally show the goal without this bit in, but there's a bit where I think it's Glenn Hoddle gets savagely tackled. It would be at least a yellow card, maybe an amber nowadays. And then the ball goes straight. Goes to his regard, yeah. But in those days, you didn't expect those. I mean, if you see it, you'll go, oh my God.

30:48Chris McHardy:You're right, and it's cut before. Yeah, it's cut, generally, but you can find it where there is certain feeds where you can see it, but it was a savage tackle. But having said that, after that, I mean, to do what he did, and you've got to realise, and it's the one thing I'm actually quite envious of the modern game, the playing services, the pitch at the Azteca that day, they'd had problems with it, so they relayed it with small pieces of turf, you know, like you do in your garden? Yeah, yeah. And every time you stood up on it, it moved. It was terrible. And he did that on this pitch.

31:24John Obi Mikel:Yeah.

31:24Chris McHardy:And multiple other things as well. I mean, what a player.

31:28John Obi Mikel:I mean, what a goal. Yeah, I know you love, I mean, I've heard you talk so much about Diego Maradona and how you think he's a fantastic player. And also, I've heard you talk about Lionel Messi. Yeah. if you have to pick one of them today, you have a game to win. Who would you, to play alongside you to win a very important game? Who do you go for?

31:49Chris McHardy:At their best. It would be almost impossible to choose if you took them both at their absolute prime. Now, I think it's, if you ask me who's the greatest player ever, I think that's a different answer. I think you have to take into account the longevity and also the fact that Diego had his problems off the pitch, which led to him not performing as well as he possibly could on all occasions on the pitch. He had a period of time where he was incredible and Messi would be, in terms of their abilities, very similar. You have to remember that Maradona was kicked up in the air constantly. In those days, you could get away with that sort of stuff, playing on these awful surfaces that were sand, whereas now it's so much easier.

32:38Chris McHardy:but taking all that into account, I don't think there's very much to choose between them, except, I don't know, I never thought I'd see a player that's better than Diego, but I think in Messi we do, we have, because, and also Messi's extraordinary passing range, and I mean, Diego used to see things, but Messi sees things that you can only see from above. It's extraordinary some of the passes he picks out. His vision is just simply outrageous. And, you know, they are my best. It's mad, isn't it? They're the best two players I think of, I wouldn't say all the time, because I didn't see much of Pelé, only caught the end of his groove.

33:19Chris McHardy:And you can only really judge players that you've seen constantly. I just never thought that anyone would compete with Diego, but those two, they do things that are extraordinary. And I think Messi, given the fact he's done it for 20 years and he's still doing it now, and he's won everything. Everything. It's ticked that box as well. But it's mad, isn't it? Two Argentinians, two left-footed, both diminutive, our favourite word of this podcast,

33:48John Obi Mikel:and both extraordinary. Do you think, having said all that, what you've just said now, do you think Cristiano Ronaldo can come into that conversation between? Where do you rate him?

34:01Chris McHardy:Where do you put him between Messi and Ronaldo? I don't like to be rude. I know Cristiano gets upset if you don't put him in the conversation, but you have to be honest. And Cristiano is a fantastic, incredible, incredible footballer. One of the all-time greats, no question about that. His goal-scoring record is right up with messes. But he can't do the other stuff. He can't beat four men in a wriggle out of a hole in the middle of the pitch and come out and you go, oh my God, how did he do that? He can't, he hasn't got that vision that Messi has or that Diego has. So no, for me, and I have to be honest, he doesn't come into that conversation.

34:46Chris McHardy:He comes in, I would probably, you know, you'd probably put someone like Pele maybe because of his, but I didn't see enough. But in my time of watching football, I'd have Diego and Messi at the top with Messi slightly ahead because of the reasons I'm going to give. and then I'd have, I'd probably have Brazilian Ronaldo ahead of Cristiano Ronaldo slightly, but I'd put them on the same thing, you know, people like that and Zidane and Neymar and players that slightly under and even Mbappe maybe possibly is coming into that. But it's mad, isn't it, that you can have unbelievably great players and then have another Adelaide.

35:23John Obi Mikel:Yeah, yeah.

35:24Chris McHardy:And for me, honestly, and I've watched football for years and years and years and years,

35:30John Obi Mikel:those two stand out. But do you think, from what you've just said, the longevity as well, to put the real Ronaldo, let's call him the real Ronaldo, ahead of Cristiano, but Rucassero has been for over 20 years now. So maybe with the longevity and what he's done, probably, yeah, exactly. Maybe he probably should be ahead of doing that.

35:53Chris McHardy:It's slightly different to Diego though, isn't it, with Phenomena? Because it was down to injuries. I mean, what, and this is also, I think describes how good he is. This was a guy that was out for three and a half years with an injury. I told you he was finished. Eventually came out basically on one leg and won the golden boot and the world cup for Brazil in Korea and Japan. I mean, so the longevity aspect for him was not a weakness because it was just bad luck. Yeah. So it's slightly different. He was, I mean, God, my God, he was so good. You see the reels now. He was so good. And he's doing things.

36:31He was doing things that I look at now and go, I don't see today. He was a physical monster. He had it all.

36:39John Obi Mikel:And without injuries, he'd probably be up there with us too. But you have to take that into account a little bit. A few words about our proud sponsors. Betwinner is your reliable partner in the world of sports betting. Enjoy placing bets on any sports event with great alts and maximum convenience. Visit BetWina.com now.

37:26Chris McHardy:It's not. It's just different styles. And we'll see the game. It's cyclical. It evolves. All of a sudden, we're seeing a little bit back, slightly more direct teams playing. It's, football's still great. I love it. And I, you know, I'd hate to be that person. It's not like it was in my day. I'm glad it isn't like it was in my day because it wasn't as, you just remember the good bits and we're all nostalgic. And so there were just as many bad games played back then as there are now. And you're going to get that. I think what has stagnated a little bit is the international game outside of the major tournaments.

38:03So qualifying now, and it's become, I mean, the big teams, it's almost impossible not to qualify.

38:10Chris McHardy:And this has been caused, and it's for no fault of football or anything, really. It's just that, you know, you saw the breakup of the old Soviet Union. So you've got loads more countries there. The same in the Balkan nations. You've got more countries there. you know the countries like Gibraltar and San Marino Scotland no no no I wouldn't put Scotland in that bracket not until you've left the room and so therefore you get qualified games that are not particularly appealing we're doing this just after the we're adjoining the international break now and so I think for a couple of weeks you switch off but I still think there's a love for the club game and the Champions League and, you know, we've still produced, there's still incredible talented players in world football.

38:57Chris McHardy:I think sometimes we, yeah, it's good to reminisce and remember the good times, but I can guarantee you now in 10 years, they said the same thing when I played. In 10 years' time, they'll be saying, they'll say, oh, they're not players like Dominio Mala around anymore and Messi and Ronaldo and all that sort of stuff. Actually, Dominio Mala will be around in 10 years' time. Yeah. Because I look at your goal-scoring record, be honest, got it here. I look at it and I remember it used to be not so long ago if you're a striker a one and two striker you were a top dog in world football now it's a goal again yes I did an event recently with Ian Rush and Ian said if I was playing today I'd score 50 and I know Ian a little bit never think of Ian as being an arrogant man but he said Chris I'm telling you on those pitches where the way the strikers the way the referee matches are being officiated would you get 50?

39:47Chris McHardy:well yeah probably in all games obviously I don't think I'm just talking about Premier League matches there will be seasons where you would if you were fit and fresh and fine of course because the best goal scorers from yesterday will be the best goal scorers today and the best goal scorers today will be the best goal scorers then you adapt to the circumstances and obviously there's better training now and if you plucked out a player from my time and plucked them straight into the modern game they'd probably struggle because it's so different and all aspects of it, but that wouldn't happen because you had to also, you know, look after condition and all the things that footballers have now, including the playing service.

40:30Chris McHardy:I think now that's one of the other reasons as well. How do you miss? I mean, there's no bubbles anymore. I didn't like the fact you wouldn't have an IQ. But no, I think, yeah, I think Ian's right. You probably wouldn't every season, but you'd be up there with the Harlins and the Lewandowski's and the Canes, of course. But the game's, and I think it's good that the game's changed that way. I mean, how many penalties? You'd have to be on penalties though, because I mean, the amount of penalties, the number of penalties players have, it's extraordinary. So yeah, it's gone up to a game for a variety of different reasons.

41:04Chris McHardy:You've got teams playing out from the back, which results in numerous errors over the season, which obviously strikers will get the benefit of that. So yeah, I think it's changed, but it doesn't really matter. I mean, it just, I suppose people look back and go, his golf screen record wasn't that good. He's only one in, generally slightly better than one in two but actually in our time that was good.

41:29John Obi Mikel:Just staying with international football, so recent comment, obviously, Steven Gerrard has come out and said that the golden generation, their golden generation were egoistic losers. Yeah. I mean, that's how, what do you make of such comments?

41:46Chris McHardy:I, I think what he's talking about, something that I wasn't involved with, but you did used to think, how can this team not do something? If you look at the squad they had. The back line. Incredible. The word that he used, though, Gary, egoistic. Yeah, well, he's probably having to go at himself a little bit, probably. I think he's probably frustrated looking back that they didn't just put all their, club bias to one side. I think that's how I read it. I don't think, they can't be losers. I mean, a lot of them have won so many trophies between them. But I think what he's talking about is when it came to England, there was a them and us, whether it be United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, whatever it was.

42:34Chris McHardy:I don't know if I wasn't around. I find that hard to believe because in my time whenever we came together, we were so as one. And I think that's Southgate changed that as well. There was so as one, but it clearly, there was that little generation where maybe, maybe the competitiveness between the club side broke into the national team, which seems, I've done the same conversation with Rio and he says exactly the same thing.

43:01John Obi Mikel:Really?

43:02Chris McHardy:And yeah, he said, you know, we didn't get on and you do need a togetherness and perhaps that's proof of it, but I'm sure they regret it. You do need those players to get on, don't you? If you want to win, if you want to win a trophy. I was baffled when I, I had a conversation with Rio not long ago about the very same thing and I was baffled. Just thought, what? Yeah. Come on. Chargialism. Pochettino actually posted up yesterday and I've written this down because I thought it was important for this and it leads on nicely to the next question. Culture eats strategy for breakfast. And it's this idea, you've got to have that culture and we're seeing it now.

43:39There's been a lot of hoopla, for both of a better word, around Jude Bellingham, Gary. The fact that England, without one, seem to be doing better. Thomas Tuchel as well, not afraid to come forward and actually broach the subject. What have you made of the media hysteria around Jude in particular?

43:58Chris McHardy:I tend to ignore media hysteria. I haven't done all my life in terms of football because mostly people, it's anything to create a story. So they have a vendetta. But I think with Jude, I mean, what we've had, a couple of games against teams that aren't very good so it's a nonsense and I think I'm sure I think he's probably left him out this time because he's only just come back from shoulder surgery and he's probably thinking cleverly long term don't push him take your time I'm sure he's had a conversation with him there's no way Jude Bellingham's not going to be in the team he's a superstar he's a great lad he's an incredible incredible footballer that will improve our chances Tuka knows I think Tuka's maybe been quite smart and he'll leave out players to rest them because there's a World Cup next summer and these games you're not going to learn anything.

44:52Chris McHardy:No. You're just going to play a few players in there and have a little look at it and see if they'll make the squad. That's probably what he's trying to do and I think that's quite sensible. Save the big boys legs for when it really counts because we've seen so often that we know the Premier League's tough and you can get tired in a major tournament

45:12John Obi Mikel:keep them refreshed, especially stars. Yeah, but I think the reason why, I'm with you there Gary, I think probably the reason why the media is jumping on that is probably the comments he made in the summer where he came out and said, my mom is disgusted with his behavior sometimes on TV. So if you've come out and said that and then now you're not picking him two games, I agree exactly what you've said. Well, there might be something underneath all that He hasn't really come out and said, this is the actual reason. I agree with you. Just Jude should be. He's England's best player, one of the best players.

45:49John Obi Mikel:He will be at the World Cup. But I haven't picked him for two games now. I think Tuchel did apologise for that statement. Yeah, he did. He did apologise.

45:56Chris McHardy:He said his English wasn't that way. But we'll see, won't we? We'll see. But does it help anything to stir things up? Not really. Jude needs to get back fit playing. well he's fit now and playing regularly for Real Madrid I mean they love him there they love him yeah I mean he's such a good player generational everyone that's seen him as a young boy at Birmingham says he is truly generous similar things with Rashford now he's doing really well in Barcelona so it's it's a game where they you know we all know if you're going well everyone loves you and then the minute you dip the minute you dip in football you get it And that's, it's always, it's was ever thus.

46:41John Obi Mikel:Yeah.

46:41Chris McHardy:It was ever thus. And it will be the same, you know, the bigger the name players, the more headlines they attract. Yeah. And whether that's good or sometimes bad, if you dip.

46:51John Obi Mikel:Yeah. I had Jude come out once recently as well and said, he talked about mental health, that he was suffering with mental health and how he thought he needed to speak to someone. Do you think players nowadays speak up enough about mental health, what they deal with? or do you think we need to help players to speak out a lot more about mental health?

47:12Chris McHardy:Well, a bit of both really. I think they're more comfortable now to speak about mental health than certainly in my day. I don't think anybody would ever say they were struggling a little bit when I played. You know, it was that stiff upper lip and stoic, you know, all this stuff. I mean, I was always lucky. Probably my biggest strength was my mental strength. You know, nothing really affected me. so I didn't get nervous about anything or depressed or anything. So I'm lucky. But, you know, even talking to one or two of the players that I played with at the time, they're obviously going through Paul Stewart.

47:49Chris McHardy:I mean, it's red for what he went through for years and years and years. I was very close to Paul. I never had a clue. Not a clue that anything like that happened to him. And I'm sure there'll be numerous other examples. You know, Gaz has had his struggles, massive struggles. They're not playing with him. So it's good that they're speaking out now. And the more they do, the better, because it's not confessing to a weakness. And you're strong if you can speak up about it. Just to pick up on that point, though, Gary, you're talking about nowadays. There is an acceptance. You can admit weakness in the professional realms of sport.

48:28Was it not known, though, that Gaza was struggling in the moment?

48:32Chris McHardy:Well, Gaza's life is one of turmoil. and highs and lows and dips and truff. And that was the nature of the man. I mean, I love Gazeta Pits. I mean, he was hilarious. I mean, the things he used to do. Every single day, there'd be some kind of stunt, practical joke. They were clever. A lot of the times they were clever. I mean, who can convince London Zoo to give them an Oscar? I can't remember what it was. Who can, like, to borrow for the day? and people say to me that car he was true because I saw it and he got it in the back of his car and he drives it and then he brings it out and he says Terry Venables looks out and he's going oh fucking hell guys what are you doing now he says I've got a new signing for us boss I've got a new signing he said it's quick as fuck it's quick as fuck but he can't even finish I mean who does that but it was priceless and the things honestly the things he used to do every single day and I was like I was in hysterics I laughed more with him in my career but you also knew that he had his weaknesses he had his addictions and he was up and down up and down and he still is to this day he still is we're in touch and he's still going and he's he has his good spells and then he dips but he's doing generally I think he's hopefully he's doing alright Can I ask a really personal question Has he ever asked for help from you?

50:09He's not asked.

50:10Chris McHardy:He's been given. I think that's the way to throw.

50:13John Obi Mikel:That's good. I'll always be there for him. All the player he was. Talking about England, the boss, Tuchel, what do you think he's the guy to take England to the World Cup and to not just go into the World Cup, to actually win the World Cup? because for me, I think that will be something.

50:36Chris McHardy:It's hard winning a role call. I mean, it is difficult. There are other very, very, very good teams. But we have an array of talent in the England team at the moment that should be able to be competitive and have a run at it. So, is Thomas the right? We'll find out. It's very hard unless you really know someone well and how they coach. And it's so early in his managerial career. But I think from all the people that I know that have played under him, that tactically is very good. It was Raphael Honigstein, the German football correspondent. I had a chat with him and he says like 70 % genius, 30 % lunatic, which you can see sometimes.

51:24Chris McHardy:And a lot of coaches are like that. So I really hope so. And I think he talks a good game. I think he's handled the press pretty well so far, with the exception of the Bellingham mistake. But, you know, if you make a mistake in this role, it will be highlighted. So we're playing games and you can see an improvement, although bigger challenges lie ahead. So I don't know. We'll see. We'll see. I would love to think, but it's so hard and, you know, the conditions will be difficult and all this, and it's tough to get that together. But England have been knocking on the door. Yeah. They've been knocking on the door, tournament after tournament.

52:06Chris McHardy:You know, you've gone final, course, semis, final. And finally the ball's dropped. Oh, the ball's dropped. You think that's an omen? You think that's an omen? That is. Is it a good omen or a bad omen? I think it's a good omen. Let's put it that way. As a sportsman, Gary, I think that's a bad omen for us, to be honest. That was a bit uncanny. That was a bit weird, wasn't it? Get your money on England now. that's a gambling thing I mean all the stars will like that's weird England are winning the World Cup but you never know but England have been knocking on the door and if you keep knocking on the door eventually it will open or it should do I've been saying for a while I think in the next few tournaments we'll get a victory it might not be this one it might well be in the European Championships Betwinner your bets

52:54John Obi Mikel:your wins here's a question for you Gary Harry, if you were England boss, and you've already told us you had no interest in management, you've got prime Shearer, you've got prime Rooney, we'll throw in prime Andy Cole, because we love him, he's been on this pod. And he's great. And prime Harry Kane, who gets the nod in that lone frontman role for you?

53:13Chris McHardy:Well, I think Rooney you'd play elsewhere, because you could play him as a 10. Yeah, definitely. He'd have to be in the team, by the way. Wayne's the best player of them all.

53:22John Obi Mikel:Really?

53:23Chris McHardy:I think, yeah, but...

53:28Alan's not going to like this or maybe he will

53:31Chris McHardy:well Alan's England gold scoring record doesn't even compare with mine

53:39I definitely put myself

53:44Chris McHardy:above all of you know what I was going to ask well yeah you need someone that can get behind I probably in no seriousness I

53:55Chris McHardy:with Kane's England goalscoring records yeah I was just going to say that but again we go into this point England like the international scoring is quite easy nowadays because most of the time you don't play against you need to play against the top teams so it's a good question I'd probably I'd put Al in I think really because Al could run behind a bit as well but it depends who you got around him but Kane's fantastic so good it's probably been a bit unfair on Kane but he would never talk to me again Alan

54:27John Obi Mikel:for those reasons diplomat I know that this question has been a lot of people have their different say about this this conversation I've asked so many people who's come on this board three great for me three greatest muted players that played you know for England talk about Post goals Steven Gerrard Frank Lampard where does you stand on that who is number one two three how do you rate

54:53Chris McHardy:the three different players and that's the thing they're three different players aren't they so I'm giving myself a get out they're not three different players well they all play same positions well they do and they don't they play in different styles but they could all score goals goals would be the best passer out of the three of them I would say but do you know I change my mind on this so frequently I used to I used to love getting poor Sculls but you know for England didn't really happen for me I mean they used to get this thing you can't fit those three in the England team and I used to go yes you can you just need to change the fucking system I mean it was 4-4-2 4-4-2 let's play Sculls on the left let's play Sculls let's play Frank on the left oh let's try Stephen Jett I mean it was mental I mean oh my dear change the system play something else play a 4-3 can you imagine those three nowadays you know like Scholes in the middle just controlling the play Frank and Gerrard going up and down I mean come on be imaginative be inventive but but Frank Lampard's goal scoring I mean added to everything that he's secret is true but Stephen Gerrard's all round game and he's attacking and he's end to end stuff I'd put those two I just think they have a bigger mix to their game Scholes he was kind of vicious tackler but not very well timed or perhaps he did it yeah he's a much tackler but he would be the best pass but the other do you know how many times I've said I've given different answers to this question really and it just depends on on the day but Stevie G by hair I don't think

56:41John Obi Mikel:there's a wrong answer with this question by the way it's just I think what Stevie G did I know among all three of them I think probably Frank is the one that's a little bit underrated most of the time. I would agree with that. He should be. He should be. He should be giving more credit for what he's done. But what Stevie has done as well for Liverpool, at some point he was just dragging the team. He was just carrying the team. I think what works against Stephen... Paul Scolz was just a joy to watch.

57:08Chris McHardy:He was. And he played in a very, very successful team. I think what works against Stephen Gerald, through no fault of his own, he played at a period in Liverpool where they were very much in a transition phase and yes they won the Champions League in a miracle performance and mostly dragged out by Steven Gerrard but he suffered for the fact that if you look at a lot of those Liverpool teams he played in, they weren't particularly strong and it was just really sad in the last kind of time of his career that the slip against Chelsea cost him

57:38John Obi Mikel:possibly that title and you just felt for him on that front

57:42Chris McHardy:but he didn't play in a side as good as Frank did with Chelsea and he didn't play in a side as good as Paul Scott did with Manchester United. If he'd have been in either of those two sides, you wonder. You wonder how... Yeah, you can be a team with Steven, obviously, Chelsea. Yeah, yeah. Chelsea. I mean, you're a better place than me to answer this question because you would have

58:04John Obi Mikel:played with that again. Yeah, I've always said for me, listen, I played with Frank and I think what he did from midfield, you know, season after season, just scoring goals, big games, small games, it doesn't matter. It's always there. But then when I watched Bosco's The way he played the game It's just incredible Incredible passer He can control the game He reads the game His awareness of the game Everything is just a full, full package And to retire And Figue was like No, I can't win the league without Bosco's Got him back And they won the league So for me, he's just absolutely brilliant Absolutely brilliant And his evolution is up late as well From a number of teams

58:45Chris McHardy:Well, that's it Yeah, it's almost a striker at one point I'll go back to my initial point there three different points can I ask I'm conscious I've still got a few questions you know you talk about and I can see and thank you for being on this podcast over the last hour learning a little bit more about you you're someone that you've said you can move on quickly career's over you move on to the next thing BBC done you move on to the next thing did you ever cry after a football match win lose or draw no No, I don't think so. I can't remember. Yes, I did my last game. That was the only moment it finished.

59:25Chris McHardy:I got a bit emotional. I was in Japan, but I think that's because I was, and I got very close to a tear, actually. I think I did shed a tear. I don't shed a tear through losing. I just feel sick, but I didn't make me feel like that. I'm more likely to do it about something that's joyous. if we'd won the World Cup I think I'd have cried but I think I cried when in my last ever game in English football was at Manchester United at Old Trafford and I was playing for Tottenham and I scored with about eight, nine minutes to go against Schmeichel, Hedda and the whole crowd stood up and sang my name at Old Trafford and that made me shed a tear I thought that was extraordinary.

1:00:15Chris McHardy:I mean, they were 3-0 up when I scored, so it wasn't too painful for them, but it was beautiful. It was one of the most amazing things that I felt on a football pitch. That made me cry. I cry all the time now, by the way. As you get older. Oh, blimey, yeah. Really? I cry anything, cry.

1:00:33John Obi Mikel:Yeah, just to touch on that, your oldest son, obviously, suffered with leukemia at age of eight I think no eight weeks eight weeks eight weeks our first boy yeah how did that change you as a person I think it did

1:00:58Chris McHardy:in terms of being more empathetic because you know what it's like when you're football you're so tunnel vision aren't you focused driven almost cold just get on with his life, get on with playing, get on with playing. So I think it's hard to judge exactly how something has an effect on you. I think I had a sense of perspective in life anyway, but this obviously enhanced it. But it was, I mean, he was six weeks old and he got a little bump on his head. We were at home, I was playing at Tottenham at the time, and we just thought, that's a bit odd, he's quite hard. We thought I'd take him in. so they said well we'll take a biopsy of it but we think it might be this skin condition they said come back in come back in like 10 days or whatever it was come but we'll give you the results so so we went back in 10 days time and we walked in and and the doctor said oh it looks like some good news it does look like it's this skin condition that we we thought it might be a lot some unpronounceable skin condition I can't remember what it was and I said well you say that that's good but you know in the last 10 days he started to you know he's grown a little bit and he seems really unwell and his glands are up and there were two doctors and they went oh right okay so they took his nappy off and they fell around I'll never forget they looked at each other and they went Mr and Mrs Lunnicka they said I'm really sorry but this is this looks like something which was more serious and it was with him and we're going what do you mean he went well we need to do some tests he said but it does look like leukemia now I I knew leukemia was a blood cancer and that's all I didn't know what that meant and within 10 minutes we're in an ambulance to Great Ormond Street and then he's fighting for his life overnight i mean the math you know blood they had to put he was just you know next morning they told us he had acute myeloid leukemia um and they're very you know open and honest they don't mess about i'm saying well what do you think they said well somewhere between 10 and 20 chance of making it but the first thing we've got to get him through this next two days because it's going to be difficult i think three times over the seven months that we're in there we were told that he might not make it through the night and it was really really hard something like that has to change and weirdly weirdly football was also a saviour at that time, I didn't play for three weeks or so and then I couldn't sleep in the hospital because Michelle is mum she was in there permanently and I used to go every morning I used to go there there was only one little bed so there wasn't room so anyway so she was there all night I'd come and I'd be there all day and then you know we were saying I've got to go back to training so I went to training and it was the only place where I could switch off and not think about it so eventually went back to playing and it was an escape football at that point but people who've been through this families they'll know that you know the ups and downs in the treatment it's kind of a bit of a roller coaster ride of you know you get the treatment and invariably the treatment you know chemotherapy is you know it kills the bad cells but it kills the good cells as well so you've got no you've got nothing to fight anything there's no immune system so that they get everything and then the danger is whether they'll you know they're permanent with temperatures and then they're okay for a bit and you're all right.

1:04:42Chris McHardy:So, um, but we were lucky, you know, I used to have this regular dream. I was carrying him in a little white coffin. I mean, it was, but we didn't and he got through it and he's 30, he's just turned 34 and he's fit and healthy and great. And we were one of the lucky ones because that's not the case for a lot of families. So yeah, that was, that, that was tough and it has to affect it, doesn't it? Of course. How could it not? So you've become more empathetic. Yeah, that's referring. It makes you aware. I mean, I think I had a sense of perspective. I think we all do, but I think it probably just enhances.

1:05:21John Obi Mikel:Yeah, yeah. And that probably must have, now when you speak up, you do speak up quite a lot about what is happening around the world. You think probably that's something that going through that at that time, do you think that has changed you? And now when you speak up about things that are happening around the world, and you've talked so much about what is happening in other countries like you know gaza and all that are you happy to see where now we are in that situation now that you think the ceasefire and

1:05:53Chris McHardy:everything what do you make of the situation with a ceasefire and peace um but it you know whether it'll whether it'll stay whether they'll keep it they broke every other ceasefire so But hopefully, just fingers crossed for, I mean, the suffering's just horrible. Hopefully, you know, we'll see prolonged peace. But I'm cynical of it. You know, whether it will last or not remains to be seen. But as we're doing this, it's standing hostages are being exchanged. and it's yeah I you know it's quite easy I suppose to try and stay out of these things and not get involved but I can't I go back to the point I cry every day on my phone when I see the images of you know children being killed and murdered and bombed and stuff so that had to stop it really has to stop we need we do need some sort of peace in the world right now yeah in the world the whole world the world but I don't think it I don't think it necessarily suits the people running the world now, distracts from other things possibly.

1:07:07Chris McHardy:I don't know. But it's dreadfully sad because I think most of us, we just want to get on with our lives and get on with each other because we all like everyone, don't we? And it's so just people. We're all people. You know, we're all different religions and different colours, but we're just people. We're all the same on the inside. And that's how we should get on. It's ridiculous that we don't. You are hugely active on social, Gary. You're not afraid to see it as you see it. Does that come from within or is that a responsibility that you feel is the figure, the public figure that you are? It's just a personal thing that I feel strongly about something that I feel like I, we go back to mental health, I feel I need to share.

1:07:53Chris McHardy:Now, people can disagree with me, that's fine. And do I think I'm making a difference? No, not in the slightest. But at the end of the day, when I go home or when I'm in, you know, and I look myself in the mirror, I have to be able to live with myself. And that is why I do it, because I feel personally it's the right thing to do. I come from a neutral aspect as well. Of course. I have no skin in the game. Tribality, I think, is such a dangerous thing that we have. so I see it as a neutral and will give my you know I talk honestly and openly about it but I don't preach try not to do it that way I just say how I feel about things and I have to live in myself the only person you can control yourself

1:08:41John Obi Mikel:respect that much just last one from me Gary do you think any chance one day BBC come to a call and say is this something you reconsider to probably go back to BBC and do what you do?

1:09:01Chris McHardy:I don't think I'll go back to doing football on television so you know I've done it forever I love doing it with a podcast I've got a new show that I've been filming the last three weeks called The Box which I'll give you a plug it's not coming out until spring but yeah it's a reality show that I'm hosting now I've got Ant and Dex

1:09:23John Obi Mikel:crowd i want to keep it it's great it's it's i can give you a little bit of it yes please so

1:09:32Chris McHardy:basically you've got um it's it's an it was a norwegian hit um it was invented there the original idea the concept um and it's it's 10 huge big yellow boxes like phone booths proper yellow boxes that has 10 celebrities in it. And the boxes are put into positions. They have no idea where they are or what they're going to do until they come out the box. So it's, and then they have to work out the challenge. It's really clever. It's fun. It's silly. But I massively enjoyed doing it for three weeks. And yeah, I think people really like it or I hope they do. Saturday night, you know, classic Saturday night.

1:10:14Chris McHardy:It's brilliant.

1:10:16John Obi Mikel:when you're shooting there when is that done is it here or

1:10:18Chris McHardy:we shot all over the south of England different locations and that's the point they arrive in a location they don't know where they are I can't tell you anything at the moment because I don't know what I can say but yeah there was some some scary spots and some very very funny moments I love it I think it'd be good I've got one final one for you as well I always like to ask this of our guests you know you reflect on your footballing career your broadcast career I regret do you regret anything? I wouldn't say regret but the thing I always go back to because these things happen it's not a regret but if you go back to the biggest disappointment that Loeb was losing the penalty shootout yeah because you're back there it's that football in immortality thing imagine winning a World Cup you know so it would have been so probably probably that people say I probably shouldn't have done the Penenka against me because it was pathetic and it would have equaled the record.

1:11:18Chris McHardy:That's a personal thing. Football's a team game. So it's more that I look back at that and think it's quite funny. I mean, comedy goal,

1:11:27John Obi Mikel:isn't it? Yeah. Honest. Last one, guys. Who wins the Premier League this season?

1:11:35Chris McHardy:Well, as we speak, Oligar's just been ruled out for about six, eight weeks. So that might make a difference to us.

1:11:44Chris McHardy:I've tipped Liverpool at the start I'll stick with them at the moment but I'm leaning a bit more towards I think Arsenal could bring the ring I just think they've got the scrambling depth and they've bought well but I think we might have a title race this year which we need I think City never ever ever underestimate no never so you know it wouldn't surprise me if they went really if we had three and then maybe you know Chelsea and Chelsea improving as well I think I think it's a bit early for Chelsea but they've got a lot of injuries at the back at the moment as well.

1:12:17John Obi Mikel:So you think this is the season that Ateta finally, finally takes his team to? I think it could be.

1:12:22Chris McHardy:I mean, I'm not going to go against Liverpool yet but they've definitely struggled at the moment to find the balance with Wurz and the team and because they've shifted quite, he's more of a 10 but I think he's a really good coach and I think they will and I think Wurz will come good because he's such a talented player.

1:12:40John Obi Mikel:and if Arsenal doesn't win the Premier League this season I've said it so many times and a lot of people now are saying it Ates has been there five, six years he spent over a billion is it time for him to move on if he doesn't really this season it depends how it happens I think it depends how if he loses on the last day

1:12:59Chris McHardy:well if it's admirable and close it's amazing and then they go and win the FA Cup of course

1:13:05John Obi Mikel:no, but Gary can't second again well it's been there five, six years I've said he's a fantastic coach he's done so well the team is built we've said it here he's the best sport right now I think he needs to win something this year I think he needs that for himself I think a cup's probably enough

1:13:24Chris McHardy:as long as they you know if they it was like the years with Liverpool-Man City if it's like that this season say with Liverpool and Arsenal that it's like 96 points against 90 which I doubt that Liverpool will get that again then so it depends on the circumstances and I never ever ever and have never ever asked for a manager to be sacked because it's I mean what kind of job it's not good for anybody to lose their job what kind of job it's sadistic but you know when you go in unless you're one of the 0.0001 % that you know you're going into a job where you'll be sacked yeah I mean how many jobs how many jobs are there in life like football manager none so I kind of kind of steer away from that kind of thing but I think Oteta's got got something and he's they have now got I think in my mind a squad that can I agree really compete really compete they needed to do that

1:14:23John Obi Mikel:and who wins the golden boot highest goals this season Harland yeah

1:14:28Chris McHardy:if he stays fit by a mile yeah be done by Christmas he's he's a phenomenal he's a beast isn't he

1:14:34John Obi Mikel:he's a he's powerful he's powerful yeah and you think anything, Isak would come good for Liverpool? Yes. Yeah. It's too good not to. Yeah.

1:14:43Chris McHardy:I like him a lot. I mean, you can never say, you know, it's his dream move, it's his club, he, you know, dug his heels in deep for it. He wants it a lot. With, with that brings, brings pressure, but, he's too silky. Yeah, I'm not honest, you're like, you'd find Gadi Rubin. Well, I mean, United, I mean, it's, I think, you know, it's a club in a bit of turmoil in a mess because you can judge that by the players that are leaving they all seem to, pretty much all of them have done really well, Anthony Hoyland Hoyland started scoring yeah, I mean so many McTominay, brilliant so you can see that there's something going on there, it will take time I don't know whether he'll be given that time or not he has a way of playing that he's not really suited to the players that he has, but he said he's adamant that he'll stick to that position.

1:15:44Chris McHardy:In that case, I think they'll continue to struggle. I think the best coaches tend to adapt to what they have. And otherwise, he's going to need three windows to get the players in that can play his system.

1:15:58John Obi Mikel:Amazing. Sobering. Last one from us, Gary. We've told Randall, we've finished. But just a quick fire question here. Quick fire question. Yeah, for your two friends. Shera and obviously Micah yeah yeah yeah who makes you laugh the most Sheila or Micah Shera or Micah oh Micah makes me laugh the most Micah makes you laugh I like Swear Real but Micah Micah makes me laugh who wins an arm wrestle between Micah

1:16:26Chris McHardy:you've seen biceps twice the sides of my legs

1:16:33John Obi Mikel:who wins a 100 meters race between both of them come on he's 30 years younger than Al isn't he well 20 odd so the Micra again in their prime

1:16:43Chris McHardy:yeah well Micra's rapid wasn't he he was rapid yeah

1:16:46John Obi Mikel:who will you not want to be stuck in a lift with who would I want to be not not want to be stuck in a lift with Micra

1:16:54Chris McHardy:take up the whole room terrible

1:16:59John Obi Mikel:who most likely to not pay for the bar taps ooh

1:17:05Chris McHardy:actually they're both pretty generous they're both pretty generous but I'll go Al just to balance it a bit

1:17:14John Obi Mikel:that's one he wouldn't want as well actually but they're both very generous who do you think has more football knowledge?

1:17:24Chris McHardy:of the modern game Micah of Alan's era Alan

1:17:33who will be a better ambassador for walkers um alan alan nice nice nice because mike

1:17:41John Obi Mikel:just idiot all other friends as well who will be a better match of the day host

1:17:50Chris McHardy:alan did the opening didn't he once he was trembling but i think i think probably alan just about, I think. Donnie Lemacher. Thank you.

1:18:01John Obi Mikel:Thank you so much.