John Terry RETURNS: ‘Disgraceful’ Abramovich treatment, Diego Costa shithousery & his dream Chelsea signing

25:35It was really weird. I was big on superstitions like that, but idiots like this, literally like bouncing the ball, hazard. You can imagine people like Diego, like bouncing the ball to me. And I had another one as well. I hate red, right? We're blue. i hate red so sorry chris but light switches are red all around the training ground hotels so when we're walking out of hotels i would go down the corridor walk into the lift and i'd go flick flick flick but there's thousands in hotels but just in my mind i need to get out the hotel and on the bus knowing that these are all so what you're telling us jt you're switching everyone's water heaters off everyone's having a fucking cold shower it come from my dad years ago saving electricity and saving money and no but i just i just hate seeing red and at the training ground i asked can we make it white or can we make this red blue i just hated it we shouldn't be associated with red and it's just something that when you're winning it's another thing to add on to your list of they're the superstitions and rituals you do and the amount of times i'm walking and i get in the lift and i can hear giggling in the corridor pop my head out and diego's there again flick flick flick flick flick so now i have to get out the elevator and go back down the corridor and i'm like no diego i'm not listen it's game day monday to friday i'm up for a laugh but today like don't mess about and he's flick flick flick it's crazy though sometimes when we're in the

27:00John Obi Mikel:hotel uh these are the jokes we used to do obviously you don't want to be getting the start get stuck in the lift with diego oh my god he gets stuck in the lift with diego you know he presses the lift closes and then he starts fucking jumping and this and everyone's like what the fuck are you doing because the lift is gonna get stuck we're gonna get stuck here he doesn't care he's like whoa whoa whoa he starts jumping and bounces like and everybody's like oh my god this guy is great so what we do when you see Diego in the lift if it's just him you just walk and just wait for another lift you don't go in but that's the beauty of it there are so many different personalities the idiosyncrasies that we all have and we've talked a lot on the podcast he gets mentioned all the time ed and hazard i think we all agree you've said it jt you've said it one of the most if not the most talented player you've played against but you and i shared a story last week which blew my mind that i don't think a lot of fans will be aware because john you've said on the podcast the laziest trainer you're ever going to likely to see yeah definitely yeah 100 but you boys are to blame for it tell us more jt well firstly you're gonna blame us right you wait no no wait i think lamps is our best ever player for me and i think longevity goals season after season after season lamps is by far the best for me in terms of pure ability azard goes top of that now there's special players that we've had zola at the back end of his career that would be up there with hazard as well but when you when you get players like when you when you get players like this in your football club you know they're special players and we just spoke about the standards that we had as a group and and stuff like that Eden didn't fall into that at all wasn't up for that didn't didn't train well didn't really care Monday to Friday but Saturday Jesus Christ he could win you a football match and you know what giving the ball and he would go and do it so what you have to do is you have to get the group together so as a group we're going we have to work a little bit harder so Eden's not going to run back so Obi being in holding midfield Obi you need to cover Ash a little bit on the left side you need to cover that left side a little bit more so when we win the ball we can turn it over and give it to Eden where he wants it and then gets us up the football pitch so as a collective as a group we're going we know he's not on it Monday to Friday you don't want him in your five-a-side team at all because you're losing you're a man down but Saturday we'll keep him as fresh as possible and everyone knows we have to work a little bit harder because this man is so good and as a group every single player brought into that because he wasn't tracking back never tracked back no he did as well on Saturday he told me he said you know I'm not going to run back he said you know I'm not going to run back so just passed me the ball and said fuck off but that's great for you guys to know you had a special talent and say we have got to accept Monday to Friday, he ain't going to be at it.

30:01We'll do the extra work because he is that special come a Saturday. Even little bits like we had the standards and stuff like that. But as a group, it was like, Jose was on him, was on him. Even in tactical session. I've told the story before about we playing West Ham the day before. And Edwin's going, why are we spending 20 minutes? Who are we even playing? He didn't even know we were playing West Ham tomorrow. And he's like, just give me the ball and I'll score two goals, we'll win 2-0. Jose took him out of the team and was like, you're not playing. Then the next day, put him in. He actually scored the following day.

30:33But they're the bits. He was like, why are we worried about West Ham? And that was Mourinho, like detail. He was so on it with every single team. There wasn't one team that he ever went, you know what, we're going to go and beat these and stuff like that and take it for granted. But Eden was so free-spirited. Diego the same as well. That's why these boys are special, special players.

30:52John Obi Mikel:I saw one of your quotes the other day. when you talked about training with Didier Drogba obviously how that made it so much easier for you come the weekend is that is that how you saw when you when you come up against all the strikers that you already obviously Didier Drogba you've worked with you've trained with him throughout the week and you know there's nobody else that's going to bully you there's nobody else that's going to you know that you're going to be scared of so all the strikers it just becomes so easy for you yeah and also I grew up in a generation where there was strikers at every single team you played against you play against Bolton away Kevin Davis you play against Newcastle away Bellamy shit like the level of Premier League strikers back then were incredible so there's no disrespect to them because there was some world class I think Thierry Omri is the best of my generation in the Premier League but playing against Didier day in day out day in day out was brutal but it made me a better player and I said about Big P coming in and these guys going you come in and you have to be on it if you're not on it we've got an owner that's prepared to come sign someone for 50 100 million pound you'll be out very quickly a manager that was ruthless as well in Jose you would have been out the side and someone else would have come in you have to raise those standards year after year and I think people forget that as well that we was a football club signing two or three marquee players every single year defenders there was defenders coming in left right in centre.

32:20I felt that. I felt the pressure as Chelsea captain, but it made me raise my game. You have to lift your game, otherwise you're quickly out the side. It's really simple. Right, I've got another picture that I want to pull up. This is you and your best mate, John Obey. There's the man that loved you more than he loved, I think, his own kids. Who's he think?

32:40John Obi Mikel:That's my football dad. That's your football dad. That's a great picture. He just set you off. Look at you. You're off running, whatever he sent you. I look at Goose and I don't know if the Chelsea fans agree with me on this looking again I'm looking in from the outside why on earth did he not get the job long term because I'll say this I can say this I actually liked you guys when he was in charge I did I thought you played a better brand of football I liked him why was he only a couple of caretakers not sure I couldn't actually answer that because the boys absolutely loved him he was brilliant in terms of being intense with previous managers and all of that and you felt the pressure playing at the top he come in he just give us a little bit of freedom actually like training was really relaxed it was was still intense but it was relaxed he was involved in it also I think when you come in as an interim manager you come in halfway through the season the kind of hard work done the pre-season's done the long training sessions you're actually in the thick of it you're playing three games a week.

33:46So you're play Saturday, recover Sunday, Monday, play Tuesday, recover Wednesday, Thursday, train Friday, play Saturday. There's not much training you can do. So it is pretty much boxes, small sided games, boxes, possessions, small sided games, which is all fun. If you speak to any footballer, what do you want to do? Boxes, possessions, small sided games. What do you not want to do? Preseason, running, all of that rubbish, the tactical side of it and I think he fitted into this really well now I don't I can't speak of him as a pre-season manager and a and a manager throughout but the boys absolutely loved him he adored you I think you played every minute of every game I did nah it's brilliant obviously JT just said it there

34:29John Obi Mikel:you know he just comes in whenever we know having a good season yeah we're up and down up and down and of course the helicopter lands and the manager's gone we know exactly who's coming in You're obsessed with that helicopter, aren't you? Every podcast, he mentions that helicopter. But he does, doesn't he? Like, once he lands, we know the manager's gone. And that's exactly what happened. Because Roman never comes in that much. We know that when he comes in, something is wrong. I remember one of the meetings we had, obviously, we're having a really, really bad season. And he comes in, and we had a meeting.

35:02John Obi Mikel:And of course, you know, his English is not that great. But Eugene, you know, Eugene, the interpreter, is sitting there, and we're all having a meeting. And then he starts calmly. He starts speaking calmly. And then when the voice gets deeper and stronger, and he starts screaming. And the interpreters start screaming. And you're thinking, what the fuck is going on here? And then he said to us, listen, you guys, you think you've got your contract, you're sorted. Everything is sorted. Don't worry about that. I can get rid of you anytime I want. I can buy whoever I want because I have the money to buy whoever I want.

35:36John Obi Mikel:And then I had Nicolas Anelka next to me. He was like, don't worry. give me the money I'll go.

35:45John Obi Mikel:Obviously he didn't say it loud, but he said, give me the money I'll go. And yeah, it's just crazy. But yeah, Gus was fantastic. And Roman as well. You've touched on him. It's still a bit of, I guess, a veil of kind of, he's an enigma, right? We think we know what Roman was like, but we don't. Your relationship with him, JT, did you have a great relationship with him? Incredible. Incredible. Yeah, this guy used to get the yachts. He used to bargain yachts to go on holidays. Only for the skipper. Only him, yeah. Only the skipper. Only for me and Lamps. Only up in one season. Oh, whatever.

36:25Yeah, I think everyone had a really good relationship with him. I have to say, one of the nicest person you can ever meet in your life, in terms of giving us the best foundation, when he first walked into Harlan so anyone who's been a fan for many years would know the old training ground Harlan was an absolute shithole and he'd come in he was like no we're not training here and very shortly after that we brought Cobham and he turned it into what it is today giving us opportunities like that to perform on the best pitches the best facilities the best staff in improvements on the stadium all of that he was invested in you guys as well the amount of conversations he would come to us and go we're paying for the travel for the supporters to travel to Bolton this weekend because it's after a Champions League game etc etc yeah that happened quite a bit under Roman correct me if I'm wrong but he was invested in that that wasn't someone telling him that he wanted to know it's Tuesday night away how the fans getting back from here and all of this he was invested in that so one of the nicest people you could ever meet in your life I think it's disgusting what's happened to him.

37:32I really do. I think as a UK government, we should be embarrassed by our actions towards him. What he'd done during lockdown and what he'd done for the NHS was sensational. Opened up Stamford Bridge to all the nurses and give people homes during that difficult time. He was just a lovely, lovely man who loved our football club and thankfully turned away from one other football club and made the right decision and come West.

38:09John Obi Mikel:Yeah, no, you're right. Roman was the guy, you know, he cared about every, not just the players, the fans as well. I remember the sad time. You remember when my dad got kidnapped as well. I remember getting a phone call from him saying, you know, he just cared, you know, spoke to me. He's like, Mikhail, what do you need? Do you need anything? Do you think, how do you think you're going to be able to get your dad back? I said, I don't know. I haven't spoken to the kidnappers yet. He's like, okay, listen, can you, with your permission, just give me 24 hours and I will go and I will bring your dad back home.

38:48John Obi Mikel:And I'm thinking, fucking hell, Roman is in fucking Nigeria.

38:54John Obi Mikel:You don't know where he is. how the fuck are you going to get him back? He's like, no, don't worry. I will get him back. So that is the gangster shit that he can pull.

39:11John Obi Mikel:So it's just that standard, you know, of how he loved the players, his players, and the football club. So, I mean, he's built... Who we are today is because of Roman. We are Chelsea Football Club. We've won so many trophies. We are one of the biggest... we are one of the biggest clubs in the world now, and it's all down to Roman Abramovich.

39:35John Obi Mikel:I don't think there's any podcasts that have sworn as much as we've done. No, it's fine. Get a swear box. We will. I'd be on holiday. I'm Scottish. I'd make a fortune from it. The other thing about him very quickly, he could spot a player. You've said this, JT. Roman came to you saying, there's a couple of kids out of Brazil that I like. he knew a footballer when he saw one yeah was actually on his yacht actually when he told me I told you so so at the end of the first season 0-4-5 he give he give me his yacht for a week in the south of France and lamps a week as captain and vice-captain as a little thank you which the players were not happy about it's every season we were doing some business we were doing some business and he invited me over to his bigger yacht he had a he had a massive yacht get the violins out it's not even the small one it's the big one so I've gone over we've gone over for dinner me and my family have gone over for dinner on his yacht and it's it's unbelievable and I'm not even joking at the back of his yacht there's a there's a screen bigger than this it's come down we're having dinner and there's a game on in Brazil it's like two o 'clock in the morning there's a game in Brazil and he was like this kid's a really good player I'm going who is it where is it he's in Brazil he he knew everyone it was mind-blowing but he obviously had people around him kind of direct into this and stuff but he loved football he loved watching football so I'm there at like two o 'clock in the morning watching some game and it's like I'm ready to go back but it's he's watching this game and this kid and I'm like he was actually really good I can't even remember who it was but it was that which I can't remember who it was, but it might have been R9, I don't know.

41:23No, but he was so invested. He loved it. He loved football. He loved spotting younger talent. He loved being around our kids in our academy. Every time he'd come down to the training ground, he'd make a point of going over and watching the under nines, under tens, bits like that. Like you see the pictures of him, Tammy Abraham, Rhys James when they were kids. Like that's what it's about. You don't see owners of football clubs doing stuff like that. A few words

41:49John Obi Mikel:about our crowd sponsors. Betwinner is your reliable partner in the world of sports betting. Enjoy placing bets on any sports event with great odds and maximum convenience. Visit betwinner.com now. I think there's only one man, JT, that you loved more than Roman Abramovich at your time in Chelsea. Is that not?

42:15Where's that swear box? Where's the swear box?

42:21John Obi Mikel:Yeah, I think Rafa was one manager that, yeah, it's just off, didn't work out at all. I mean, never got on with any player. Just about fit his face on there.

42:36John Obi Mikel:And look at his cheeky smile. He's like, I'll go him on the bench. he never fed did he no listen hey i'm gonna give the guy some respect you want a europa league with him but he was never chelsea football club manager never but yeah it was a bizarre one but but again the one time you can probably say why did he do it which was the question there we still went and won something so it's like roman had his way of doing things and you know he made a lot of big calls and he was he always you know um he always made those big calls when he needed to and i think a lot of owners wouldn't have wouldn't have made that decision he made it against a lot of chelsea fans chelsea players at the time i'm not saying it worked because it didn't for me but as a football club it just goes to show how strong our group was as players as well so obviously we had avrum and managers like that after the great managers of marino conte and celotti these guys were they're in control they're running things when other guys come in rafa avram the the boys do the majority of the work it's it's player led a lot why didn't you two see eye to eye how long we got you know what i was injured when he first come in we just didn't get on like that the first meeting so as managers when you first arrive at a football club you kind of the players are there like you guys are now and it was he's addressing the players and at Liverpool we do this and we've done this and this is how we've done things and blah blah and I'm sitting there going well exactly that's the question I asked but but it's like and I'm sitting there in the meeting going Liverpool won fuck all we've been dominating Premier Leagues but it was like for me we've been dominating Premier Leagues, FA Cups, Champions League later stages.

44:33The last thing I want to hear about is Liverpool. Like Obi said, we have big rivalry as well. So I was like, Gaffer, we don't speak about Liverpool. And by the way, we're the ones dominating the last five, six years. And OK, hence why you're here is the reason why we need to get going again. But don't want to hear Liverpool. And from that moment, we just didn't get on at all. and it just erupted pretty much after the Man City game. Do you remember that he kind of left me out? I think it was quarterfinal of the FA Cup. You have to be careful now because the guy's pulling people up and he corral on the podcast, HMRC.

45:12HMRC. But he's a Chelsea fan, so look after me if I'm slightly out. But I think it was a quarterfinal of the FA Cup away to Man City. We lost 2-1. And he'd come in the dressing room after and address the players. and was like boys it don't matter you know we go again next week and you know we can now focus on the league and now he's left me out i'm sitting next to you at the time over over here and i've got you gaz cahill next to me and i've got up and i'm going fucking don't matter it's a quarter final of the fucking fa cup of course it matters fucking don't come in here after the game and tell the players it doesn't matter and now i'm kind of walking towards him he's walking towards me obi's in between me pulling me you didn't really get on with him so as obi's pulling me back Like, Obi was like, no, go on.

45:58Smash him. But it's, listen, I was, like Obi said, right? On the pitch, I was, what you see is what you get. Well, my heart on my sleeve. Behind the scenes, I knew that I had a role to play. And I'm representing you guys in that dressing room when he's there. When the great managers come in, Mourinho, I don't need to do my job. those guys do it for you because they're the ones in charge when stuff like this happens people need to understand no no this is our football club my football club I've been here a very long time this is what it's about and and I think I was in my right to to say that we didn't get on I played a lot of games that year I'd come on before the Europa League final actually done my ankle before that I played full of my way I scored two goals I think I scored five goals in seven games on in the games that I'd actually played so I was still fit and for me it's it's about going okay I'm not playing but going in Monday to Friday it's now showing the group that because I'm captain doesn't mean to say I couldn't you know toss training off or not come in and train well everything about me was everything every single day like Obi said and I think when you're a Chelsea player Chelsea captain when you walk in that building you get that very quickly and if you don't get it you fall by the wayside like I said so that was me as a player as a person and I'd like to think I passed that onto the generations beyond me.

47:26John Obi Mikel:You know, during the games, the day before game or before game, we have a meeting, you know, the team sheet is there, whoever is starting is there. Rafa was one manager, never put the starting 11 in the hotel when we have a meeting. He says, nope, I'm not showing you who's playing, I'm not putting up the 11, the starting, I'm going to do that in the dressing room, in the stadium. You remember, because he never wants a confrontation. He never wants a confrontation. So he'd rather do it in the stadium whereby you're not going to come to him and say, why the fuck am I not playing? You know what I mean?

48:02John Obi Mikel:So he does that at the last minute whereby you have nothing to say. And it's just incredible because as players, we want to know if we're playing or not. You wouldn't have a meeting at the hotel just before we go to the stadium. But Rafa was the only manager that never puts the starting 11. and he's like, no, no, no, no. I put it in the state, you know, in the state in the last minute just before we walk out. So for me, I just found that very, very strange. I didn't get on with him. You know, he never wants a confrontation with anybody. He never wants you coming in this, you know, room, knocking on his and asking why you're not playing.

48:35John Obi Mikel:Sometimes you need that kind of conversation with your manager. Why am I not playing? What do you need me to do better as a player? Where do I need to improve? But Rafa never wants a confrontation with any player. I just found that really, really odd. And that's why I didn't get on with him. I wish you smashed him that day, you know, in the dressing room. If you'd have let go, I might have. In terms of the best communicator that you had as a manager, I know you talk a lot about Jose. Is it between Jose and Carlo? Were they the two best boys that you played under? Yeah, the two best managers for me, Conte Fultz just below that.

49:11I was at the back end of my career. Jose being Jose because he was just unbelievable at everything. from the moment he walked in, the mindset changed at that football club. It was very clear from day one. In terms of management and the style of managers, Ancelotti was a little bit softer, whereas Mourinho was, this is how we're doing it. You guys are following or you're not following. If you don't follow, you're not in. Whereas when Carlo first come in, and this is what's great about Carlo, and also managing as well. So this just goes to show there's different ways to manage. so when when Carlo first come in he sat the group down so we had like the older players like myself Pete Lambs and Didier sat with us had a coffee in Italy we we often train twice a day we often train in the afternoon and we were like oh no we don't train twice a day and we don't train in the afternoon no we like to pick our kids up we like to do normal stuff and all that okay we'll train once a day we'll train in the morning this is what and it was a two-way thing and it it actually worked really well now we was a little bit older by then that was 09 10 08 09 09 10 so we was a little bit older then maybe we needed what jose give us early on of a leader and then then us follow as we learned we enjoyed that side of of carlo carlo had a a mean side as well didn't he was he was aggressive as well and also worked with ray like ray was the best number two you could you could ever have.

50:40And the players absolutely loved him, just his manner. Listen, we all...

50:48John Obi Mikel:Yeah, one of the funny guys I've ever, you know, I've ever met. It's like putting him in... Obi's like a Nigerian cockney. Hello, mate, how are you? It's like... Any fucking danger you're playing today? He'd walk in and Obi would walk in like that and he'd go, are you all right, fella? and I'll be a go yeah I'm good he'll go well inform your face then fella like just just absolute brilliant you know and priceless to have people again Chelsea people that are around the club Carlo come in and learn so much off of Ray and Carlo Carlo was an unbelievable manager an unbelievable man manager he would come down the back of the bus and have a cigarette with lads after a game not the two on stage I'm not going to name names but it wasn't us we'd have a glass of wine though yeah but I said this recently like after games you'd often play Saturday you'd be in Sunday and you'd do a video analysis of the game like this and you go in all the players would sit there and you'd go through it the manager would talk through certain clips Carlo would often come down the back of the bus with Ray with a bottle of wine and the game would be on.

51:57So you're driving back from Everton, from Manchester. You've got a long drive or Aston Villa, wherever that may be. The game's on. Down they come with a bottle of wine, cigarette if they want. And you'd be sitting there and they'd pour you a little glass of red and you should have maybe been over there and maybe you could have stopped that. And it was such a good way of doing it. But we've done it in a really relaxed environment like we're talking as friends now. It wasn't like you're the manager and there were times when he did. but he had a really good manner of how he dealt with things and I think the players really enjoyed that and I think we showed our free-flowing football under Carlo.

52:34You should never have snagged him.

52:35John Obi Mikel:Yeah, no, you should have but I mean, Ray Wilkins made so rest in perfect peace. I mean, what a man, what a guy. Absolutely love Ray. I have a funny story about him. You know how he loves his red wine, him and Carlo Angelotti. Remember one game we finished, we finished a game obviously, we didn't win a game and they're both sitting in the coach's room. And I think they were both at it. They started drinking and drinking. And then Roman walked in and Ray was already gone. Oh my God. And then he came and he started talking to Roman like, hey, how are you? And you know, when Roman walks in, you give him space.

53:14John Obi Mikel:Unless it speaks to you, you speak to him. You know what I mean? And then Ray, because he was so out of it, he was so drunk. He's like, hey, how are you? I started talking to, he was touching Roman and then Roman was like, what's going on here? Like what's happening? And I think the next day he was gone. The next day he was gone. Absolutely lost his job. I remember he lost his job. And then after that as well, Carlo lost his job. So for me, yeah, what an amazing guy. Brilliant guy. Amazing guy. Right. Questions that you guys have sent in. I'm going to get to them in a second, but I've got the last picture for you.

53:49I want to stick this up. There we go. 2012.

54:03So, there's a lot going on with this picture.

54:05John Obi Mikel:He knows what's coming after that. Maloud is just wiping the mud off my knees from all the slide tackles in the game. I think there's a shimp out there. Can you see it? Listen, a lot's been said about this. rival fans JT they take the piss out of this all the time but there's there's a backstory to this and and the thing I love about you and this story obviously you didn't play that night but you've said it many many times still the greatest night of your footballing career and that says a lot about you yeah by far a lot of people are baffled by this when I say this but again goes back to us, me, Chelsea, what Chelsea Football Club means to me.

54:48I know how much this competition meant to the football club. And to win our first one, obviously we go through, so we go through the years now of 0-4-5, 0-5-6, 0-8 when I missed the penalty, 0-9-10, last minute. And then in 12 when we are an aging team we've got suspensions we've got people out we are the underdogs massively we're playing at by munich stadium everything was against us and it just goes to show that the group we had to never ever give up there's a couple of not that one there's a group picture that just embodies chelsea and tells you everything you need to know about that group we had at that time because a lot of us in that group had been through the ups and downs and the what the downs more than anything because they are like it's such a difficult competition to win the teams in it are incredible we face the Barcelona side that I'm I guarantee no other no other team across the competition could have lived with them how we live with them throughout that we give them a run for their money what they've done to Man United in that final we know 9-10 was I mean they destroyed them we battered them at the bridge and it was it was those bits so when people say to watch your best night in in a Chelsea shirt it's that night because I know what it meant to the footballers and to these supporters as well and there was shin pads in there everything hi a lot yeah listen if you're gonna do it do it properly

56:34and obviously for you john i always love that's one thing you get on the podcast this man's got no filter if you've listened to if you've watched it sometimes he might annoy you sometimes though he'll always say as he sees it and i always give you great respect and one of the things, John, that has really stayed with me throughout this podcast is one time you were very open and you said that was the night that you felt that you won the respect of everyone associated in the football club. That you were always striving for that. You didn't need that, but you've spoken about that. That was the night.

57:11John Obi Mikel:Yeah, definitely. I think for me, you know, being at the football club for such a long time as well and knowing that this is the trophy that we wanted to win. We've won so much. We've won the Premier League so many times. We've won the FA Cup five, six times. You know, the Kaling Cup, it used to be called back then. Now it's called the League Cup. And for us, this trophy was the trophy that we wanted to win. The owner wanted to win the trophy. And like John said as well, an aging team, a team that we know he's about to leave the football club. drug by peter check frank lampard and to know that we are about to lose the spine of the football club this everything we've went through for so many years and wanting to win this trophy it would have been a disaster if we we didn't win it and these guys were gone i just felt like it was something that we we've worked so hard for together the spine of the team you know knowing that we did it finally did it together and to give roman that one trophy that he absolutely deserved and wanted to win was absolutely brilliant and for me to have my best performance i say for chelsea football club was just special i it was just something pretty amazing and special because i could feel you know you go into a game a football game you know from the first minute you know you're playing well you know things are going well for you and I just thought I was on my game.

58:40John Obi Mikel:I was playing, I was on my game. I was breaking up plays. I was setting up attack. I was just, and knowing that this man as well is not on the pitch as well.

58:54Every manager did, they trusted you.

58:56John Obi Mikel:Yeah, so it was a special, special night for me and it's a night that we never forget. And this Champions League for me is my best moment in my football career. And it's a moment I will never forget. And to be able to share it, experience it and celebrate with the Chelsea fans was just something pretty special as well.

59:19He was immense that night. There's about a minute, 10 second clip of you on YouTube. If you haven't seen it, go and have a look at it. It's incredible. He still... Still didn't have one shot on goal in 12 years. Hey, he tells me, he tells us all that he's a proper number 10. You've seen him in training. Could he have played number 10?

59:42John Obi Mikel:Absolutely not. He's killed you there. I'll just ask him one last question before we give. The current team, what do you make of the current team? And do you obviously, do you think, what do you make of Enzo Mareska? You think he's the man to lead us back to the glory days, winning trophies, Premier League, Champions League? You know what? I think like all of us, when the change happened, new ownership, new managers come in, I was as sceptical as everyone else. And you kind of, nobody likes change, right? Especially when you've had such good owners previously and things have been, and you've been taking the top managers, et cetera, et cetera.

1:00:21So I was questioning it, I have to say. and I think in the last couple of years what they've done, I think they've got a lot of it right to be honest. Do I think we can go on and win Premier Leagues? That's the one concern for me at the minute and I just think at the minute, I think we're a really good group of players. I really like the manager, I've seen him work. I'm not over with the first team, obviously I'm working in the academy but I'm not with the first team a lot but when I'm over with the boys, you get snippets the boys really like him now that's a big thing firstly I think he needs he needs some experience in there some players that have won and I spoke about earlier with I love the group Esteval and these guys like incredible and but just people like Thiago I'd love to see him still around the football club for these boys to go this is what elite looks like this is what winning looks like what is the position what is the position that you

1:01:18John Obi Mikel:think we need to strengthen in terms of strengthening to making the squad complete than to then go on and to win the trophies? I think all over the pitch. I think you look at the spine of our group, right? You go, we had Peter Cech, Kortat. When we was at our pump, our very, very best. You talk about two goalkeepers pushing every single day. You need that competition. We spoke about it all night. Centre backs, you need it. Top, top players. I think we need a centre-back. Midfielders, strikers. When you're the main guy, like Didier was the main guy. He knew he was the main guy. You bring in Shevchenko.

1:01:53You're questioning yourself. You have to raise your game. And these are the bits for me. Now, I'm not saying we should be signing Isak. I'd love to see us in the race to be signing Isak. Okay, he joins Liverpool because Liverpool are above us at the moment. But in terms of top players who are scoring 25, 30 goals a year, we should be in for players like that. We're Chelsea and it's like that finished article. And a little mix of the finished article with the current group we've got, I think could be a really, really good mix. I don't disagree with that. Right, we've got questions from the floor.

1:02:27We've got 15, 20 minutes. So let's get to these. This one is for JT. You've said before you're done with management, content with your Chelsea academy role. But if one of the Premier League strugglers came to you tomorrow, what would you say? Would you be tempted? Oh, that's a good one. what if spurs come to me I can't help it I can't I can't I fucking hate spurs now you know what I'm at the minute I'm in my role in the academy I'm two days a week in the academy working with a kid so that's a mixture of training sessions I'm around the boys you might have seen a clip I put up on Instagram recently where I'm mic'd up I'm training alongside some of the centre-offs and the boys.

1:03:11I'm involved in the sessions. I'm watching a lot of their games and we're doing clips after games and stuff. And their journey now from 16 to 21 is that part right in the middle of like a couple of times a week they might go over the first team. As we're walking over having conversations when I was playing and when I went over to the first, like everything these boys are going through now, there's not going to be one thing that comes up that I've not been through or done. So I love my role. I love the part of playing or the small part of playing their journey to break through to our first team.

1:03:42And I've just got a really good balance of life. So I'm playing golf four days a week as well, which is great. I love my golf. I'm spending time with my family, which is the biggest thing. Now, as a player, you don't get to do that. So I'm very lucky and I'm kind of in control of myself at the moment. What's the handicap at the minute, John? Four at the minute. No chance. No chance. Right, next question. Right, this is, I'll tell you what, we'll put this one to you, John, but we'll maybe put it to both of you. Which three players would you sign for Chelsea to push us to the next level? My three were all available in the summer and we got none.

1:04:19That was Donnarumma, Mark Gay, and your best mate, John, Victor Osane. So, three players in world football right now.

1:04:29John Obi Mikel:Right now, jeez. Obviously, Donnarumma for me was, you know, he was out there, he was available in the market. Why we didn't get him, I have absolutely no idea. I've said it so many times. I don't care, and I'll still say it. I just think that for me, Sanchez, I feel he's not the goalkeeper that will take us to the next level. I like him. I think he's good, but he's not a top, top goalkeeper that will take us to the next level. When we won the Premier League, obviously we have Peter Cech. You look at Man City, when they were winning all those trophies, they have Edison, Liverpool, Alisson. Now David Raya for Arsenal.

1:05:09John Obi Mikel:You need a top, top goalkeeper. So for me, I think, for me, Sanchez is not that guy. And of course, I think we need another centre-back. I like Levi Corwell. I don't know what you make of him, but I like Levi Corwell. I think there's so much potential there. Will he become a top, top centre-back? I don't know, but he has the potential to become a top, top centre-back. I think John can say much about that. But we need another top center back that can come in and partner with him with more experience. Like you've just mentioned, like a Thiago Silva, a top, top center back that can come in with experience and lead that defense.

1:05:48John Obi Mikel:And of course, a striker. And I'm happy that we've gone out. We've gone Jao Pedro. Victor Simé was there. We didn't get him, of course. You all know what I did. I tried my best. I negotiated the contract. But we just couldn't get it over the line for some reason. I think both parties wanted to get the deal done. But I just think having things, paperwork, we just couldn't get it over the line. And I was so devastated that it didn't happen. So for me, I think if we got Victor Osime, I think he would score us goals. He would get us goals. And I think he's that striker that will win you trophies. but Jao Pedro is doing well.

1:06:29John Obi Mikel:Liam Delap as well. I think he's got a lot of potential. I think he'll be good. Shame that he's injured right now. So I think we've done good business but I'd like to see us go out in the January transfer window and strengthen the centre-back and a top goalkeeper. I think as well, like you look at Jao Pedro, he wouldn't have been top of my list but I think he's been great so far. He's had a really good start to his Chelsea career and I think a lot of strikers come in and don't get off to the start that he's got off to so I'm delighted for him. I think he's been really, really good. And also, I see him train.

1:06:58The boys tell me he's unbelievable in training as well. So I like the way he trains and his whole demeanour. He's scoring goals, which I love. I'd love to see Mark Getter, he come back, obviously come through at our club. Do we have a buyback on him as well? I think you did at one point. We did have 35 million. But he's out of contract now, isn't he? Yeah. Listen, he's available. Why wouldn't he come back? I think he's a darn deal that's going to Liverpool.

1:07:22John Obi Mikel:Yeah, you say that. I think he's a darn deal, mate. didn't go through he'll be at Real Madrid next summer after right love it next question right John Obi here's one for you you've been vocal about players switching allegiance to Nigeria late in their careers essentially Nigeria not being second option looking back Jeepers what a question this is would you change anything about your own journey choosing Nigeria over England England? I guess you could have no you are from the East End of London Peaky blinders That's Birmingham but close enough

1:08:09He's killed you We'll edit that out of the podcast You'll be fine John In terms of that though Because you have been very vocal about it

1:08:17John Obi Mikel:Yes I have been I said what I said And I still stand by it Because you have players who you think they can make the decision pretty quickly and represent, you know, where their parents are from. But they choose to up out and wait for maybe England call-up or Germany call-up or France or whatever. And they just wait. And, you know, we speak to the parents. We speak to the family. Okay, why don't you come represent Nigeria? No, no, no, no, no. My son needs to wait because we're waiting for England to give us a call-up or France or Germany. And then when it doesn't happen, obviously, you know, when you hit 30, you know, your football career starts going down.

1:09:02John Obi Mikel:And by the age of 28, 29, they haven't got a call-up. And then now they're, oh, Nigerian FA. Okay, now I'm ready to go and play for you. No, you're not. Fuck off. You know what I mean? No. Because we've waited. No, no, no. Hold on. Because we've waited for you for so many years. We've called you. We've begged you. I've seen the FA fly from, you know, they've taken planes. They've flown to England. They've come to Chelsea and they've spoke to a couple of players. It happened to Victor Mozic. Victor Mozic. I told him, I said, listen, you have to think about your career. Because if you wait for England, you might not get a call-up.

1:09:40John Obi Mikel:And Victor was very smart to make that switch pretty quickly. And then we got on to win the Nations Cup with him. So I hate when players wait. I made an example with Shola Amwabi. I remember when the FA were begging and calling Shola Amwabi, when he was partnering Alan Shera at Newcastle, they were banging in goals week in, week out. And the FA was like, come play for Nigeria. I was like, no, no, no, no. I've got this great partnership with Alan Shera. I'm going to wait. I think I'm going to get a call-up. No. Shola Amwabi, no chance. No, exactly. Exactly. So come play for Nigeria. He said no.

1:10:14John Obi Mikel:And then he waited and he was 29. 29, 30. And then he come and played for Nigeria for, I think we went to the World Cup and he never played a game because he just wasn't the same. So I feel very angry when I see that and I still stand with my decision. But for me, definitely Nigeria all day. Nigeria all day. I like the passion, but I want to know what you really think. But that's what I've said. Bet winner, your bets, your wins. Right, next question. This one to JT. While you were playing, was there every signing for Chelsea that you dreaded joining the club? That's a great question. And how did it turn out?

1:10:58So did they sign a centre half? You thought, shit, I'm out of a job here. Alex I think when Alex first come in didn't really know too much about Alex and he comes in he was a monster wasn't he then the free kicks he was scoring goals from set pieces I then started practicing free kicks in training and then after a few months I was like no I'm okay I'm okay no but he was yeah he was probably the one really that that come in and David as well a little bit David was flamboyant when he was out there. Was he bonkers? Yeah. They are the Brazilians. Yeah, they're off their head a little bit. But they're good, fun characters to have around the place.

1:11:43They're a talented group of players. They obviously grow up playing the game very differently to the way we play it. Before games, the English boys would be really focused and they'd be on the bus laughing, joking. It's just the way they are. They bring a really good vibe to the dressing room and the environment. But he was obviously a very good player when he was on it. He could switch off at times. But I think consistency with both of those players kind of let him down. We speak about the top, top players. The top, top players perform week in, week out, train week in, week out, and keep that level very high.

1:12:19For you, John, was there anyone that the club signed that you thought, right, my career is done?

1:12:25John Obi Mikel:Of course, N 'Golo Kante. I left right away. I was like, that's it. I'm done. He's a different animal. Oh, my God. He's a different animal. I mean, I was lucky. I stayed a week. I would have been gone earlier. I stayed a week after seeing him in training, the way he was running and covering grounds and everything. The guy can run for three plays. He can cover grounds for the whole team. It was just incredible. And what he achieved, you know, winning the Premier League with Leicester. When you talk to Leicester players, they'll tell you that without N 'Golo Kante, they wouldn't win that Premier League.

1:13:02John Obi Mikel:There's no chance. And then to come to Chelsea and repeat it and do the same, it's just incredible. I know we've named the role, the Makaleli role, but N 'Golo Kante is just, for me, he's on a different level. He was incredible. Great answer. Right, next one up for you, JT. Have Chelsea got a world-class centre-backer present? If not, who can be? I guess that links in with Levi Colwell. And if you could, which centre-back would you sign for the club today? So I guess Mark Gay, you mentioned Mark. At the minute, no. Again, we're young throughout the whole group. So I think for those boys to be up there with the likes of Van Dijk and those boys, they're not at the moment.

1:13:49Could agree. All right, another one. Yeah, like Vic. Levi's obviously got a comeback from his injury very strong I think he has the potential to be loved him at Brighton Don't think we've still seen the best of him yet at Chelsea And obviously he's picked up the injury and stuff So I think when Levi's back He has a big role to fill at the football club I'd like to see Gehi back I think again bringing people back that understand the football club Is big for me as well And players that are kind of there And not kind of here as well they've kind of they've peaked and they're on that journey of the way up as well so but they always say never go back mate hmm

1:14:28John Obi Mikel:never go back who says that I don't know he's the same never go back never go back it doesn't work out sometimes he'd work at Chelsea yeah he would well 100 % I don't know I never liked him when he was at a club though he's a young boy he was 7 years of age what do you expect listen no no no no he wasn't no he's not good enough for the first team no no no no no No, we did watch him at the academies, mate. I did watch him at the academies. All right, I'm like 10. Exactly, I did. He doesn't rate him. Hopefully, Mark Gay's not watching the podcast. Right, next one. For you as well, JT, talk to us about your goalkeeping cameo versus Reading in 2006.

1:15:11Injuries, of course, Petr Cech, Carlo Curincini. I read that you had your own goalkeeping gloves. Is that true? Yeah, I did, yeah. I was always third choice. If anything happened, I was... So in training, before training under Mourinho, we would always go out early as a group and the boys would take shots at me. And Jose would be like... He used to play in goal, Jose. So he loved it. And he was like, just don't get injured. Don't do your shoulder. But the boys would take shots at me. And I used to love it. I used to be filthy before I started training. But I used to really enjoy playing in goal.

1:15:45So anytime, so I got my own gloves made up. And then when it happened, I was like, I'm in. I'm in, I've got my chance. obviously really bad what happened to Pete and obviously was with him recently which wasn't a nice kind of scenario but big Pete's gone off Carlo's gone off and I've come on and the first thing that's happened is a long throwing from the from the side at Reading and I've just as it's over there the boy's about to take the throwing I'm like this to the boy Didier fucking help me head this away head this as far as possible because I'm definitely not coming for this and as it's coming I've gone away just

1:16:23just one of those moments I think even when the first so the ball's there and I'm looking at the ref going can I pick it up can I pick up the boy closes me down and I've done the old school like volley like the full volley not like a half volley that the goalkeepers used to hit the floor and like hit a little I've done like a full volley it looks like a 1960 goalkeepers get terrible but I didn't have much to do which was great but I did keep a clean sheet and again he did keep a clean sheet that deserves a round applause but again taking ownership JT your team are in crisis they're in a hole and again you step up taking responsibility oh don't get me wrong I was shitting myself I was petrified and it is it's that bravado of like I used to love going in goal and stuff but then the responsibility of like free kicks and throw-ins, it was like, shit, I'm in it now.

1:17:13Like, what happens if one does go there and, you know... Kept a clean sheet. Kept a clean sheet. Right. Next one. What have we got? Final couple. This one for you, John Obey. Many fans call you one of Chelsea's most underrated players for your defensive solidity. Like, you've written this, by the way. What advice would you give to young midfielders like Enzo Fernandes trying to balance attack and defence in the modern Premier League? What advice would you give to young midfielders?

1:17:42John Obi Mikel:Listen, I think when you play the role we play, the position we played, I think when I joined the football club and I spoke to Claude Makalele, who was always playing that position, he said, listen, if you want to play this position, forget about the spotlight. You're not going to get the spotlight. Week in, week out, after game, the papers are going to come out with Frank Lampard, DJ Drogba, the guys who scored the goals. they will never talk about your impact in the team in the squad you will never get that so forget about all that there's not going to be any spotlight so i i kind of learned that pretty quickly and and and and for me when my teammates and my managers understood what i did for the football club for me that was it that for me that was enough and i knew i wasn't going to get the credit maybe from the fans you know because they want they want the excitement of a hazard or did the drug but we will score the goals but when i finish my job and we keep a clean sheet and i see the you know the likes of jt my captain you know the managers come and say listen you're absolutely fantastic today you know you were there you're breaking up plays you were setting up plays for me i go to bed feeling like you know i've done my job so to any young player any kid that wants to play that position just know that your importance in the team you your teammates value it and your managers they value it so much even if sometimes you don't get the credit i'm sure some of the fans can see what you do just keep your head down and just keep working hard that's all you have to do and and we worked as a team that's why we were pretty pretty successful we won everything because we worked so hard for each other you know what i mean and uh and i'm sure enzo enzo fernandez knows exactly what to do he's a world cup winner is you know he's box of experience and he's doing really really well now as well he's not a number six he's arriving Even later, the box is scoring goals, is creating chances.

1:19:39John Obi Mikel:And it's nice to see him starting to play well now for the football club as well. Love that. Great answer. Right, next one. There was a rumour, this one for UJT, of a John Terry tell-all Netflix series. Was there? It's a bit like the Beckhams. Was there ever any truth in it? And is that something that you and Tony would consider? It depends on how much, doesn't it? Now, you know what? we've had a couple of offers from um from a couple of different companies yeah i mean it um no not not really also there's a lot of old ground that people want to talk about like for me like i want to talk about my football career and you know there's stuff that's gone on off of the pitch that i don't want to kind of dive into and give people an opportunity to come back and respond and and stuff like that so for me it's like I'm prepared to do it and I'm probably I'm in the stage at the moment of do I do something on my own where I'm in control of it and I do the footage of have a have a team following me around and stuff like social media is going big now isn't it um I do a lot of stuff some around the academy there's enough footage and enough managers and ex-players that would kind of come on and speak for me as well so taking them out of it completely and taking full control is probably the route I'm going to go down If I do go down, it won't be with a big company.

1:21:00But they're interested. I'm not sure how good it would be, but we'll sell 100 at least. I think this might be the last one. I'll ask this to both of you. What would you be doing if you weren't a footballer?

1:21:18That's the best answer ever in the crowd. The best. The best. he probably would be as well. What would you boys be doing? What would you be doing, John?

1:21:30John Obi Mikel:I have no fucking idea. Probably, I don't know. God, probably play basketball. I was, I was, I was good at basketball when I was a kid. Okay. I hope you was better at basketball than you was darts. Jesus Christ. Not darts. You were terrible at darts. Taking Gandhi from a baby. Terrible. You, JT, what would you have done? I would have been involved in football in some capacity for sure. Like coaching kids or like a youth level or something like that. I think I would have gone down that route. I was just involved. Like my dad was, my dad played at a good level back in the day and stuff. I was around it too much not to be involved in it in one way or another.

1:22:10So I'd have been involved in football for sure. A massive thank you to Mr. John Terry. A massive thank you to John Obi-Michel. Give it up for these two. These gentlemen, one more time. John Terry and John Obi-Miquel

1:22:33love it I just want to say just want to say a quick thank you for everyone coming out tonight I hope you enjoyed that tonight it's really good for us sex plays firstly being back at the bridge but being here tonight as well hearing that song for me I hope that stays forever I really do number one I fucking hate Topnam second of all I love you guys alright so thank you so much for coming thank you Go Sugar!