Obi Mikel ERUPTS: Arsenal’s ‘cheat code’ a sign of Arteta’s ‘lazy coaching’

23:04John Obi Mikel:You know, I know how difficult it is for the referees. I know the job is so, so difficult. I can understand that. When the pace is going 100 miles per hour, they can't see everything. They can't control everything. The VAR is there now to help them stamp out and see and correct mistakes like this. And still, they're still fucking getting wrong. So where I've got, and where I am totally with you, the Declan Rice one, His hands are on the player. It's the handball for me. They've got to look at. The second instance in the second half. I want to get to this because... But did you even see the second goal when Declareis again was holding the player and he wasn't even looking at the ball.

23:41John Obi Mikel:He turned his back. He was not looking at the ball. And he was grabbing again the same player. He was manhandling him and was not looking at the ball. How is that? When we play, we never grab players like this. I can promise you 100%. I know. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. This is on a different level. I know. I had to run with my man. I had to run. The only thing I can do was to give him a little shot off. Yeah. And make sure he doesn't hit the ball. So he's off balance. So he's off balance. Yeah. I never grabbed anybody. I never grabbed. Manhandled.

24:13John Obi Mikel:This is manhandling. Yeah. I never manhandled a player like this. It's a fucking joke that they get away with it. The instance what I was going to bring you to is, and I know you and I differ on the David Raya. I think he gets the ball before he makes contact with Joe Pedro. I know you think he punches through Jao Pedro first. Oh, he knocked his head off. Well, maybe get the footage of it. I'm surprised his head is still hanging on. We are both in agreement. You talk about manhandling. I'm not an Arsenal fan. I've got no skin in the game. But when William Saliba pins Jao Pedro and his hands down, so he's got no leverage to jump, that's a penalty for me.

24:48He grabs him. He's like a salmon. He can't do anything. Especially when you consider...

24:53John Obi Mikel:It wasn't only that big, Chris. They do this every fucking weekend. Arsenal do this. Every fucking weekend they do this. You know, Arsenal fans are loving how pissed off you are. Oh, man. No, I'm so pissed off. Not because they beat us. Not because they beat us. Not because they cheated their way through beating us. Again, 10 games in a row we haven't beaten Arsenal. It's a crime. It's too much. It's a disaster for our football club against Chelsea. 10 games It's been close to 5 years Since we beat Arsenal Football Club It's been close to 4-5 years Since Chelsea Chelsea Football Club The biggest club in London The most successful football club in London 10 fucking years The Arsenal Football Club that we used to smash Left, right, left and centre Whatever, we used to smash them Did I say it John?

25:48John Obi Mikel:Did I say it? 4-5 years it's been that we haven't beaten Arsenal Football Club. They have scored, I think, 22 goals in 10 games against us. They've won seven, I think. Drawn three. Arsenal and Chelsea Football Club. The rivalry. The team that we knew how to beat. The team that we had in our fucking pocket. Yeah, your team. But you know what's happened. You know what I mean. But you know what's happened, John? Who are the streetwise ones now? like of you guys back in the day. It's Arsenal who are now streetwise. Now they're the streetwise. And it's Chelsea, pretty patterns at times. But now I'll say it, this Chelsea, this young Chelsea team is now mimicking Arsenal of 10 years ago.

26:35Pretty patterns, but do they have enough dog in them? This Arsenal team, whether you like it or not, they're dogging them. Gabriel, absolute shithouse. Grace and respect. You need that. Saliba, Declan Rice. There's enough mongrel in this Arsenal team that I actually applaud. I don't like Arsenal. I'm not an Arsenal fan. But I can see now, you're talking about the fact back in your day, the shoes on the other foot. This Arsenal team are streetwise, which you boys used to be. And this Chelsea team is perhaps a little bit...

27:06John Obi Mikel:Chris, I don't mind the way they play the game. My issue here, which I've made, which I can stand on every single day... Is the set pieces. Is the set pieces. Yeah, fair. I don't mind how they play the football. which is shit anyways. Boring. No creativity, nothing. I don't mind that. We're playing not pretty. But when you're cheating, I'm not for that. When you're cheating, we can we count. We can all see it. How come the FA are not seeing this? How come the officials are not seeing this? Thinking every week now we have to keep an eye on this. We have to make an example of this. If they are watching the FA, If they're watching the FA, the officials, the VAR in fucking somewhere in London there.

27:52Yeah, in a parking lot.

27:54John Obi Mikel:In a parking lot. How can you miss this week in, week out? It's not possible. You have the VAR there to see it. We've seen penalties given. Yeah, I know. The VAR can say, you know what? Go have a look at this. I think there's been seven penalties given from set pieces where there's been jostling in the box. Four of the went to VAR across the season. And I think the crazy thing, I'm a United fan, right? So you know that, listeners and viewers know that as well. I look at the incident in the United game at Old Trafford. LaCroix pulling back. Oh, my word. Right? There is very little contact there.

28:29Oh, how about that? Exactly. It changes the game and it's a red card. A red card, yeah. You then compare that to what? With Saliba. I'm with you on that. I'm looking at that. It's a fucking joke. The game's gone a little bit. It's a fucking joke. How is that? Okay, you can argue. penalty maybe, but a red card for that.

28:47John Obi Mikel:A red card for that. At Old Trafford. Man, he only just pinned his shoulder a little bit. And Cunha. And Cunha went and flew like he, again, like he shot him with some. I was bloody delighted, John, but I'm looking at that going. And again, when you compare them, you're looking at - When you compare the two incidents, there is no comparison. There is no comparison. Again, it's the consistency of these referees, these officials, the consistency, week in, week out. The biggest league in the world. with so much in it, so much riding on it, especially in this crucial time, this critical time, where teams, clubs are fighting for relegation, fighting for fourth place, Champions League sport, European sport, to win the Premier League titles.

29:30John Obi Mikel:You can't be getting it wrong. You can't be getting it wrong. So you think, John, Arsenal, there is favoritism towards Arsenal. I'm not sitting here saying that. But when you keep looking at the weekend, week out, the amount of stuff that they get away with, you can you you can have an argument to that because you know you can have a legitimate argument to that saying is there favoritism for arsenal to go on and win this title maybe is everybody bored of manchester city winning the title maybe because they've won it so many times because pep guardiola for me is the picky blinders of all fucking managers he's a man He is the boss.

30:10John Obi Mikel:He knows how to win titles. He's put so much pressure to this Arsenal side that they've become so fucking desperate. When you watch them play, when I watch this Arsenal side play now, you know, there's so much pressure on them. The nerves that they have. They're dealing with it. The legs are heavy. It's like they can't run anymore. It's like the creativity is gone. When the legs are heavy, when you're nervous, when you're feeling the pressure, When you've been tipped to be the guy to win the Premier League title, when the weight of everything is on you, the share of the club becomes heavier. Your legs become heavier.

30:47John Obi Mikel:This is the pressure that this Arsenal side are feeling right now. And Pep Guardiola keep mounting that pressure on them with his statement, with his mind games. Week in, week out. So much to go. So much can happen. He keeps, he knows how to play the mind games. And he's been there. He's done it. He's a smart guy. And he's putting that pressure on his Arsenal side. Watching Mikel Ateta on the touchline, under the gaff. He looks like a guy full of bag of nerves. Yeah, he does. Bag of nerves. Kicking, shouting, screaming. Sometimes going into the pitch to grab the ball. And he needs to be fucking red card.

31:25John Obi Mikel:He needs to go sit down. That's what needs to happen. That nerves. I can feel his nerve. I'm watching from, I'm watching at home. I can feel his nerves. I can feel the pressure coming out from that jacket he keeps wearing all the time. That was just rubbing off his place. When his players watch him and they think, oh, fucking hell, he's on it, isn't it? Bag of nerves he is at the touchline. I'm going to be nervous as well, mate. I'm going to be fucking nervous. I think that's what's rubbing off his place. They look nervous. They look like they've run out of ideas. There's nothing more they can do.

31:59John Obi Mikel:And that's why they've depended solely, so much more on free kicks and corner kicks. It's going to be interesting to see how this goes. I think you're on to something. I mean, listen, there will be those screaming in their television. I'm not up to nothing. It's just sometimes when you see things like that, as a Chelsea fan, I don't fucking want to see Arsenal win the Premier League title. In my lifetime, I don't want to see them because... You don't like them? No. You've just made that clear. I think everyone watching or listening to this knows that you do not like Arsenal Football Club. And the way they keep beating us right now is just, you know, it's not nice.

32:32John Obi Mikel:you know the football club it's not nice to see it's not nice to see that we get keeps we're weak and weaker every time we play against Arsenal we keep losing you're a broken man John we've got through 30 minutes and you've just said it it's not nice I keep fucking ranting about Arsenal but it's fucking true I love it I love it John and listen right Arsenal still five points clear you're not enjoying it but we've got to give them credit City got the win it's over to Arsenal it's not pretty they won again they've got a great chance the Champions League I mean my goodness it's opened up for them Bayer Leverkusen in the last 16 if they get through that Bodo Glimt or Sporting Lisbon in the quarterfinals I mean couldn't be written any better I mean they can cheat their way through fucking quadruple that's what they can do well you give them credit if they win the quadruple job no chance I'm giving them credit by winning this way you can't cheat your way through winning the fucking quadruple playing this way we've seen people we've seen teams win titles play in the right way so you think they're the worst we've seen PSG last season play fantastic football attacking football defending well winning the Champions League and of course the French League winning everything we've seen Pep Guardiola do it we saw Anasla do it last season we see Bayern Munich do it in Germany playing and winning the right way this is not we can week out we see Real Madrid do it in Spain.

34:03John Obi Mikel:Barcelona winning the right way. This will be, I tell you not, I kid you not, the worst team to win a title playing this way. In the Premier League. In the Premier League. I'll ask you a question, Chris. Have you seen some of your Chelsea teams come to the end of the season? When the team of the season is announced? I know where you're going with this. How many of this Arsenal front line? None. None. How many of this Arsenal front line? We'll get in the team. We'll get in that team. None. I bet you none of them. But... You want to talk about the defenders? Yeah. The goalkeeper. The goalkeeper 100%.

34:40John Obi Mikel:He's been absolutely amazing. David Raya. I'll give him that. He's been absolutely fantastic. David Raya. Gabriel, Zubamendi and Rice. Zubamendi no, please. Declan Rice. Declan Rice. Zubamendi's been unbelievable. No, please mate. It's your position. I'll bow to you. Declan Rice, yeah. No Zubamendi. No, no Zubamendi. Declan Rice. You've just said it there. Raya, Saliba, Gabriel. Timba, yeah. Yeah, Timba, yeah. But because Rhys James, because of how we play, I still think Rhys James is a much better player than him. But this season, I give him that. If Arsenal go on to win the Premier League, Timba gets in that team.

35:15John Obi Mikel:And Rice. And Declan Rice, of course. And Zubamendi. Because Declan Rice is the driving force of this team. The driving force of this team. He is. Declan Rice. Make no mistake. But you are right. And I think he should be, next season, he needs to be the Arsenal. He needs to be the captain of this football club because I think for me, he's been absolutely magnificent. He's been superb. The way he plays, you know, not just defending, not just doing the dirty work, the way the goals, the creativity, the what he brings to the team. I'm going to say his corner kick delivery. His corner kicks. Just he's a full package.

35:47John Obi Mikel:Absolute full package. And what you need from your captain is to be constantly available for the team. And he does that week in, week out. He's constantly available. It doesn't matter how many minutes he plays, Declan Rice, constantly available for the manager to select him. And that's what you need for your top, top player. But then come back to again, how many of these Arsenal players will get into the team of the season? The attackers? None. Saka. Martinelli. Trossard. Trossard. Eze. Jokares. Yeah. Eze. Madweke. None of them. Nope. None of them. but they might get five or six. They might get five or six.

36:29John Obi Mikel:But then it comes down to, again, a manager having all these fantastic plays, not being able, not being able to get them to play the right way. But you say not being able, but he's got them top of the league, John. I will come back to it. He's got them on four fronts. That's success of a football game. I'm just giving you the stats now. I know you have, but... The stats that I gave you, 13 games they played, which they didn't score with set pieces. How many did they win? You're saying three or four? Three or four. Yeah, but they're winning. And when they have won games, they played 16. Set pieces won 15.

37:03John Obi Mikel:Set pieces. They won 15. So again. So that tells you that the creative players haven't done enough. No, they've not. He hasn't been able to go the best out of them. He hasn't. It's a great game. And he comes down against the manager because you can't tell me that those players are not fantastic players. We saw what Elze did for Crystal Palace last season. Yes, he's got a few goals, but only against Spurs. Like, Chelsea next season. All the goals he scored, all his creativity, was against the shithole Spurs. Anybody can be fantastic right now against Spurs. Anyone. Anyone can be brilliant against Spurs.

37:34John Obi Mikel:Even I can be fucking brilliant against Spurs right now. Here's a question, John. If Chelsea next season were to do exactly what Arsenal are doing this season, top of the league, Champions League last 16, final of the league cup, fifth round of the Emirates FA Cup, are you calling for your manager to be sacked or to change up? What are you doing? with your happy, your sad. What are Chelsea fans? Again, the Chelsea fans wouldn't be happy with it. I wouldn't be happy with the style of football. But? If he goes on and win it, if he goes on and win it, then of course, that's a title. That's a title.

38:08John Obi Mikel:But I wouldn't be happy. Of course, I will say this is not the way we play football. This is not the right way for us to play football. And we shouldn't play this way because we have brilliant players that can be able to affect games. They can be able to change games. that can be able to create chances, that we can be able to score goals, play in the right way, creating chances, letting those players be free. We have a lot of maverick players that can get you off your seat, that you can be excited and go into the game. No, go into the game to watch again. We can week out your team scoring by set pieces, scoring by corner kicks.

38:39John Obi Mikel:No, I wouldn't accept that. I wouldn't. I will definitely call for the manager to be sacked because that's not the Chelsea way. That's not the way we play. I know our fans. I know what our fans like to watch. creative play. They come week in, week out to see our team play well and win games. That's what our teams want to see. I think it was a couple of seasons ago where I think we're winning or something and the fans booed us off the pitch because we're not playing the right way. And I can tell you right now the reason why these Arsenal fans they can lie as much as they want. The reason why they're not calling for Mikel Ates to be sacked is because they're on the fucking top of the league.

39:18John Obi Mikel:and they are five points clear. They know this is the only chance of them winning the league and they don't want to create that negativity around the club now, saying calling for the manager of Issa. That is the only way they're keeping their mouth shut. And for me, that desperation. Right. I want to move on. There's so much for us to discuss. I want to ask because I tell you what, Arsenal fans are loving the fact that you're hot under the collar. They're also going to be loving the fact... Chris, you can ask them. They can lie as much as they want. It is the truth. They know it's the truth. They know that they're top of the league right now.

39:49John Obi Mikel:Five points clear. With nine games to go or ten games to go. The last thing they want is the negativity. They don't want to start calling for the manager to be sacked. They are not enjoying what they've seen. They don't like the style of play that they're watching. Sometimes it's way too slow. It's way too negative. It's way too rigid. You don't know where the goal is going to come from. The only player that was creating something was Saka. The combination between Saka and Odegaard that we're accustomed to. You know, where they do the triangle and they create something. It's not there anymore.

40:18John Obi Mikel:It's not there anymore. You know, they're licking their lips when they have corner kicks. And for a club who spent a billion in five years, they should have more. They can do more. They maybe are not enjoying the style, but I can tell you now, any Arsenal fans listening or watching this are loving the fact that you're hot under the collar with it. One other thing that they're loving about Spurs, a defeat again. I mean, I come back to, you were questioning me off air last week when I said I would love it if Spurs go down. You're like, why? It would just be remarkable. The stadium, the training ground, a club of that size, and some would argue what size, they're not one much, but they are a big club in the English football environment.

40:56The club of that side with the stadium, I mean, yeah. Yeah. For them to be winless in 10, you last week were defending Igor Tudor. My God, John, he's not wasted any time. He started smashing people. He's questioning, you know, mentality, he's questioning whether they've got the hunger for this. That is a sinking ship. They're lucky that West Ham are four points below them. They're lucky Forrest with Vitor Pereira two points, because they are, I'll say it, they are shit. Spurs, fucking Spurs.

41:25John Obi Mikel:They need a fucking massive, massive. You know, when you go to the hospital, we go to the hospital, they need to be operated. The football club need to be operated, like a fucking slice. Go into the heart of that club and bring out what is the problem. The problem is not there what we see. It's beyond that. It's beyond that. People keep talking about what we see. It's way beyond that. You can talk about the injuries that they have. Excuses. I hate when clubs come out and make excuses. Look at the top managers, Pep Guardiola. They never come out and complain about injuries. They don't use it as an excuse.

42:08John Obi Mikel:Season after season, he suffered with injuries. And he's managed to win titles that way. You can't keep going. It's part of the game. The way the game is going now, with so many games to play, players will get injured. You need a big squad. And that's something that this team don't have. What is happening is beyond what we see. It's way, way deep. When you have a manager as Jose Mourinho, one of the greatest managers that's ever coached in the Premier League, One of the greatest managers that the game has ever seen, Antonio Conte. Don't really like him, but a fantastic manager that's won Titus Weber's gone.

42:48John Obi Mikel:When you have all these top managers come to your football club and they all say the same thing, all left the football club saying exactly the same thing. Yeah. You know something. You know something is fucking wrong. Ego Tudor is taking him what? Two weeks? To figure, when you come to it, you know, you're happy, you're excited that you come, you need time to be able to assess. No, he's taking the man two fucking weeks to know there's problems. He'll come out and he said it. He said, there is problem, there is problems, there is problems. There's many, many problems, he said. Many, many problems.

43:29John Obi Mikel:So, you should know that this first team, when I watch this first team. It's a shambles. It's horrible. You know, there's no desire for the players to run. There's no one that is willing to run. There's nothing. They're not giving anything. Defensively, there's nothing. Going forward, there's nothing. They look all over the fucking gaff. They look all over the fucking place. Nothing. Absolutely zero from this first team. I watched them on the weekend. They were shocking. They were absolutely horrible to watch. It could have been three or 4-0. Yeah. And when you have the captain of the football club, for me, one of the best center backs in the Premier League, if he wants to, if he, only when he wants to, your captain, Romero, it looks like he wants to be out.

44:14John Obi Mikel:He wants, he doesn't want to be there anymore. With suspended, I think. Constantly getting red carded, constantly being suspended. Even when he plays, he's arguing, he's blaming the owners. Yes, you, yes, you have the right to, because I think he's from the top. Yes. But as a player, do your fucking job on the pitch. You are the captain. Lead the team. He's nowhere to be found. Since Ugo Toto came into the football club. He's been suspended. His captain is nowhere to be found. Yeah, yeah, yeah. How, as a manager coming in and looking at that, one of your best players, your leaders, when he plays, his partnership with Miki Vanderva is, again, you can question, is it the best between Saliba and them?

44:55John Obi Mikel:on their day, on their day, both of them are world, world-class defenders. World-class defenders. On their day. On their day. If Romero wants to play, you know, with his reckless tackles, getting red card, kicking people as if he's playing, I don't know when, what kind of football he thinks he's playing. You can't be kicking people around. Like, it's horrible. Your captain should be the one that has the cool head and that can be able to, you know, calm the team, calm the players, be there for the club, the team when, especially now during the difficult time that they need him to be able to lead the squad, to be able to lead this young Spurs team.

45:32John Obi Mikel:He's nowhere to be found. It's horrible what's happening in the Spurs. It's a fucking shithole, that football club right now. They need to sort it out pretty, pretty quickly because they are full points off relegation zone. Full points off relegation zone. And they'll only stay up, John, because others around them are worse. Yeah, I've watched a lot of Spurs. They are devoid of it. But If you look at the other teams around them now, not Jim Frost, they're not playing as badly. Sometimes, okay, the result is not coming their way, but if you look at the games that they've lost in the last couple of weeks, it's the games that they should have picked up points.

46:04John Obi Mikel:West Ham the same. You can say the same with West Ham. Yes, they did lose to Liverpool, but the games that they've played lately, you can make an argument that they are... There's been a bit of an uptick. A little bit of progression, the way they're playing. Spurs is the only one in that whole relegation battle. They're bottom of the form game. Absolutely zero. Absolutely zero. Powers in midweek. It's incredible. I don't think they've won any game in 10. 10. It's absolutely shithole. This is your fix. I am your host, Stassi Schroeder. Welcome to Tell Me Lies, the official podcast. What's the most unhinged thing of season three?

46:42Steven. Because he's so evil. I do think he is misunderstood. You see everyone face consequences.

46:48John Obi Mikel:It's intoxicating. The writers just know how to trick you. There's always a twist in this show. Tell Me Lies, the official podcast, January 6th. End stream, the new season of Tell Me Lies, January 13th on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+. What's happening to Spurs? They've not won in the league in 2026 and we're now in March. Unbelievable. This is Spurs. Unbelievable. And again, the board, when the hierarchy is not doing what they have to do for the football club, it definitely rubs off on the players. You feel it? It's only a matter of time before it's having a knock-on effect. And that's what we see right now with this Spurs team.

47:25What has been going on for years that nobody was talking about,

47:30John Obi Mikel:slowly but surely, now it's having a knock-on effect. Now we can see this team is slowly but surely declining and massively declining. And listen, let's not be surprised here that this Spurs team might go there. It'd be mental. It's going to be a fucking disaster. It would be. if they are relegated. It would be quite something. Because where is the goals coming from right now? None. I thought Solanke was going to be the guy. But when I watched Solanke, yes, I know he's just coming back from injury, but he looks a shadow of himself. The player that we saw at Bournemouth, he looks a shadow of himself.

48:08John Obi Mikel:You know, Xavi from Germany. You know, nothing is working. The midfield is, oh my God. The midfield of Spurs. Paulinho, Bissouma, Sar, Connor Gallagher. Oh, my word. Honestly, I think right now Spurs are the worst team in the Premier League. They are the worst team. Here's a question. They are the worst team in terms of form, the way teams should play. Because they have absolutely no clue. Hugo Tudor as well is coming and straight away he's seen that the problems is way bigger than he thought. It's way bigger than he's imagined. And he's looking at it thinking now, what the fuck have I got myself into?

48:47But you don't call that out. I'm not a manager, but two weeks in and you start questioning. Chris, what can he do?

48:54John Obi Mikel:He feels that's the only way to get the best out of this squad because he's gone in there and he sees that this is a spoiled, spoiled kid. After the game, this first game against Arsenal, he came out. What did he say? He said there's a lot of players that have to change their attitude. It's an attitude thing. It's bad attitude. I don't know. Players earning so much money thinking, oh, fuck, you know, I've got a contract. I don't give a shit. I don't care about the football club. You're going to pay me anyways. That is the attitude. Players not willing to sacrifice for the football club. Not willing to do enough for the football club.

49:30John Obi Mikel:Not willing to sacrifice for the fans that are coming week in, week out to watch them. The fans are the football club. When your fans come week in, week out and watch you play the way you play week in, week out, losing every single game. They have a right to question. They have a right to boo you. And when you see the players week in, week out when the fans are booing them, they go and they're having a fight with the fans. Yeah, they've done that a lot this season. You forget that those fans are the ones fucking paying your fucking wages. Correct. That's true. You know who I make comparisons to?

50:04And whether this is right or wrong, and listen, you've been in the game. I look at Igor. You're saying this is the route he wants to take to try and elicit a response. I'm just giving my opinion. I think it's the wrong way. I think it's an incredibly bold step to start calling out people two weeks in when you're in a relegation battle. The last manager, interim manager to do it, and he's a good mate of yours, he did it at Chelsea. When he replaced Graham was Frank Lampard. What happened? Chelsea meandered to the end of the season. He came in very quickly, did Frank. And Frank, if you're watching, I'm just saying how I see it.

50:37He came in and went, ah, this is quickly not my fault. There's a lot of problems here. I'm only here. Mehir until the end of the season. And he started distancing himself. I'm watching that going, hold on a second, Frank. You're in there to get a response. Igor's going in there and very quickly, John, he's done one of them. The hands are up going, attitude stink. Mentality is not right at this football club. Hold on a second, Igor. Your job is to go in there and get results. And he ain't doing it.

51:04John Obi Mikel:Yeah, the only place where I can say that is that before he took this job, he must have called a couple of demands because this happens. You would think. He must have called maybe a couple of the managers that's been there before and asked, try to get their opinion. What is this football club like? I'm sure he did that before taking over. He knows exactly what he's coming into. And that's the problem with these managers. They know. Sometimes they do know what they're getting themselves into. And then when they come into that job, after a couple of weeks, they start complaining. But hold on a minute.

51:33John Obi Mikel:You knew what the fuck you were getting yourself into before taking the job. but how do you blame him? How do you get the best out of this first team? How do you get them to fucking have a desire? Jose Mourinho used to say it. Sometimes, I don't care how you fucking play. I don't care if you did play well or not. The minimum of the, I don't know, I ask from you, fucking run. Fucking go there and kick the shit out of somebody. Show that you care. Run. Do the dirty job. Do the dirty side of the job. I don't expect you to play pretty every week in week out. I don't expect you to be the man of the match every week.

52:17John Obi Mikel:But what I expect from you every week is the desire to come week in week out. Step on that pitch and show the fans, show the football club that you care. That you are proud to wear the badge of the football club. That's the minimum. the fans expect from you. That's the minimum that I expect from you. That's what I expect from you. And at this point in time, none of these players are doing absolutely the basic. The basic, which is run. Yeah. Fucking run. That's it. I love it. They're not doing it. That's the slogan. Never became a manager. Run. Fucking run. I love it. And listen, this is going on and I'm conscious there's loads we can still discuss.

53:01I've got to ask very quickly. a lot of people listen and watch this podcast, Man United fans, is Carrick the right one, John? Are you starting, you're laughing, you're smiling at me. Am I drinking from the... It's your cup, isn't it? Am I drinking from the Carrick Kool-Aid? Paul Scholes has come out to say he wants Carlo Ancelotti, man that you know, that we know. I don't know him well, but we've had him on the podcast, of course. You know him very well. Carlo, Michael, where are you at with United? Do you like what you're seeing? I like what I'm seeing. They are effing running.

53:30John Obi Mikel:They are effing running. They are fucking running. Even Casemiro that with all his leg is gone. He's running. He's running right now. But you can say that. He's gone at the end. He's gone at the end of the season. But then he's got a young Kobe minor who's covering his fucking ass. So, yes. He's covering his ass. He's been brilliant. He's been brilliant. We give him that. Since Michael Carrick is coming, he's been brilliant. It looks like he's gone to the doctors and he's got fresh pairs of legs. Casemiro, he has been brilliant. He has been brilliant. give him this tune it's incredible what a manager does isn't it sometimes or what a change a manager does you know what I mean it just leaves the whole place up you know you know new list of life you know fresh positivity and everything and Michael Curry looks like that guy he looks like that geezer that I can just give people you know just go out there and do your thing you know I don't think Michael Curry is that type of manager that coaches and knows Exactly.

54:33John Obi Mikel:But the good thing, what I like about him, he's brought in Steve Holland, a manager that I worked with. Yeah. At Chelsea. Brilliant. Brilliant. Because I'm hearing Steve McLaren recently has come out to say he is Steve Holland. Top coach. Top, top coach. Is he? Top, top, top coach. What's he like, John? Yeah. I mean, not only that he knows how to bring out the best of players, you know, top players. He knows how to manage top players, the ego. He knows how to massage the ego. And he also knows how to get the best out of the young players. So he has the blend. He has the mixture of both. He's an absolute fantastic manager.

55:05John Obi Mikel:His sessions are good. His sessions are really, really good. And that's one thing I must give to Michael Carrick. He's gone out there and he's thought, you know what? I need an experienced manager, coach, somebody that can help me out. And what he's done really well is to get Steve Holland with him. Yeah, that's good. But saying that, yes, credit to Michael Carrick. You know, he's coming to the football club. He's done well. He's settled the ship and he's got them playing some fantastic football. You know, the club looks like a different, you know, team. The players look a whole different, like a whole different place, the players that we never saw before in the Premier League.

55:40John Obi Mikel:You know, Cesco as well. He's got the best out of Cesco. He's scoring goals now. Harry Maguire looks like a different player. 100%. You know, just Kobe Maiano is getting back in the team, which for the life of me, I don't understand why. Again, Ruben, Robert Amoron was just absolutely, I don't know what to say about him, but. A manager that wasn't ready to change, wasn't ready to listen to anybody, wants to die with his own beliefs, his own way or the highway. Sometimes top managers, not sometimes, top managers do adapt. They evolve. And that's why even Pep Guardiola, as much as he's won, like I said so many times, he's gone out, he's brought in Pep Landers because he's seen where the game is going.

56:26John Obi Mikel:And he wants to continue to learn and continue to evolve. and that's something that I was surprised that Rue and Aaron didn't do didn't want to change didn't listen to anybody it's either my way or the fucking highway well it's your highway now you're fucking gone so it's good to see Michael Curry coming and he's doing well he's doing well he's the manager that knows the place he's played for the football club he knows what it means to wear the shirt he knows what it means to be the manager of the football club of Manchester club as Manchester United the culture of the club what it means for the fans you know the size of the football club he knows everything about the football club which is nice to see and I think that's going to be his message to the players week in week I don't see him as a fantastic you know genius no I think week in week out he's reminding the players what it means to be a Manchester United player what it means to wear the shirt of this football club how long does that stick last yeah we'll come in there he's done well what is it five games six wins six wins draw.

57:28John Obi Mikel:He's done really well. He's settled. They're playing some good football. But again, this is a honeymoon period. It's a honeymoon period for every manager, top, top manager, young manager that's gone into a top, top football club and he's doing well and he's winning games. It's a honeymoon period. When we judge you is when it's going wrong. Because It will absolutely go to shit. What do you do? How do you get out of it? How do you manage when it's all going wrong? When you see the players coming every day with long faces, yes, he's come back from injury. Yes, he hasn't hit the heights, the standards that we're accustomed to him playing, the level that we're accustomed to him playing, the creativity that we know that he can bring to the squad, the ability that he has.

58:21John Obi Mikel:We know he hasn't hit that height yet because he's been in and out, in and out with injuries. He's played so many games last season, of course. In man. You can expect him to, at some point, break down. He's only a human being. And that's what's happened. But he's come back to the team now. Build a team around Cole Palmer. In his best position. In his best position. Play Cole Palmer as the number 10, which is where every Chelsea fan, me included, we want to see Cole Palmer. Because that's where you get the best out of him. That's where the first touch that he has, the ability, the creativity that he has, he can affect games playing that position.

59:00John Obi Mikel:As the number 10. Where you have Kaixeyer, they can play the ball through the lines to him. And he has that ability to do the first touch, the first touch, and slip the first two pass to the strikers. Creating chances. When you're playing wide, it takes away so much of his game because he then has to cut in. try to go around so many players, not only that he's dealing with the fullback, he has to try to cut in and deal with the midfield players. It's taking away so much from him. Play him in his right position. Let him be involved. Because when he's involved, when he's constantly involved with the ball, touching the ball, getting involved, that's where we see the best of goal power.

59:41John Obi Mikel:That's where we see his ability shining through. Because he's that guy that wins those games. Don't play him on the wide position. So if Liam Rossini is listening, please and please start by playing Cole Palmer in his favorite position. Yeah. You have two of the best Memphis players in the Premier League, Enzo and Caicedo. Why are you trying to accommodate Andres Santos? Please. Again, I'm not here to knock young players down. He can come in second half. He can come in with Caicedo or Enzo. where you have to make changes tell me what is he he can do in that holding role that caicedo can do 10 times better play caicedo there he's been that guy that plays that position he is the best in that position play caicedo enzo fernandez and cole palmer central pedro netto and maybe ganacho or whoever you want to play in that position there wide left wide left please play they call Palma in his best position.

1:00:46John Obi Mikel:And then we can build from there. You know, we talk so much about how we need to go forward. You know, I believe that if Enzo Maresco, the way we played, the way we competed against big teams, we wouldn't lose to Arsenal three times in a row. We haven't yet beaten Arsenal in four or five years. It's absolutely disaster. It's a disaster. A club that we used to, you know, beat... You're coming back to Arsenal. No, honestly. It pains me. It pains me to see us becoming a yo-yo team. We're not a yo-yo team. And we don't want to be a yo-yo team. Yeah. We are Chelsea Football Club. We are the biggest club in London.

1:01:29John Obi Mikel:And we should act that way. We should play that way. We should progress that way. We should run the football club that way. A way that we keep progressing. Keep the culture of the football club going. Which is improving. Winning titles, competing to win titles. We don't want to spend 20 years without winning the Premier League. Because right now, I can see us sliding and declining. It looks like that's where we're declining to. We don't want to be a national. We've not talked about your date, but that's not our problem. Exactly. We don't want to be that. Since we started this poll, we said two or three years, we should be competing to win the league.

1:02:08John Obi Mikel:If you ask me now, do I see us winning the Premier League in the next two or three years? absolutely not absolutely not I don't see us winning the title in the next two three years not to talk about the keeper that we have the keeper that we have so many times we talked about it not just me every fucking pundit all around the fucking world knows that yes he does make saves right here and there here and there and sometimes you forget about you forget about it no to win a title please you need a dependent You need a dependable goalkeeper. Look at the two top teams right now in the Premier League.

1:02:49John Obi Mikel:Donnarumma. Donnarumma. The saves that he made. Ridiculous. Ridiculous saves. And Raya. The game against Liverpool where he made that save. Even Pep Guardiola was like. Yeah. Jumping. Excited for the goalkeeper that he's got out and brought in. Yeah. Making those saves. And then Raya's people. And David Raya. A Arsenal football club wouldn't be where they are today. If it were my word. Yeah, you're right. We can talk about Saliba Gabriel, all the cheat code of the set pieces. But, David Raya, my word, the saves that he made. Absolutely brilliant. Absolutely superb goalkeeper. Superb goalkeeper.

1:03:29John Obi Mikel:And he's only getting better and better. Week in week out, I watch David Raya. He's getting better and better, better and better. You need a top, top goalkeeper to win titles. And right now, Chelsea Football Club, we do not have a top goalkeeper to go out there and compete to win the Premier League or the Champions League. We don't have that. I watched the game the other day. He was all over the fucking place. He was. Giving the ball away, putting the team in dangerous situations. Pressure, inviting pressure to us. You know, kicking the ball away, giving the ball to Arsenal. He was all over the fucking gaff.

1:04:04John Obi Mikel:All over the place. And then the goal. I was watching it thinking how in the hell are we going to win the Premier League like this with this goalkeeper it's impossible it's impossible during our time we have one of the best the most dependable goalkeeper Peter Cech week in week out you look at your goal keeper and you know fucking hell we've got a brilliant goalkeeper top top goalkeeper can make saves can save us they can win you games and he did they can win you titles we have that yeah And that's something we don't have now. And again, center backs, Levi Kowe, I don't know how long he's going to be out for.

1:04:42John Obi Mikel:You know, all these young players we're bringing in, Saar from this, Sean Buck, from all these players. Young boy, but he looks up there. Young boy, but again, Chris, we need experience. We need experienced center backs. We need experienced players, you know, in that back line. We need that. Yeah, it's all good on that. All the inconsistency. Yes, we can win games right here and there, here and there. But to be consistent, you need experience. Experience brings you consistency. And we don't have that. We don't have players that can say, fucking hell, guys. Let's go on a fucking run here. Two, three, four, five games we win.

1:05:22John Obi Mikel:They can pull you through games. They can see you out through games. They can say, you know what? Let's sit this one out. Let's all come together. Suck the pressure and then we can go. When we have the ball, our quality can show through. We don't have that spokesman. We don't have those leaders in the team that can be able to get this young team that we have to be able to be consistent. And that's what we're seeing with the results. And of course, with the silly indiscipline, the stupid, stupid indiscipline that we're seeing with the red cards that is costing us. Too much. And has cost us top four right now.

1:06:00John Obi Mikel:Because right now, we're six position. we are not in the top four top five now in the premier league and if we do not qualify for the champions league it's a fucking disaster yeah it'll be a big problem listen final one because we've been here seemingly half a day i've got to ask just because i want to rile you one last time you know you're talking about arsenal cheat codes and they're on the cusp of maybe a quadruple and the last time they won the premier league was of course the famous invincible team just thinking out loud here, how many of this Arsenal team, John, truly, would get in that invincible team?

1:06:37Not too many. I just want to annoy you for the fact that I'm here. How many, truly? Not too many.

1:06:42John Obi Mikel:Not too many of this Arsenal team right now can get into that invincible side. You know the problem right now with this new Gen Zs and everybody? We're so quickly to forget about what our legends have done. We're so quickly to forget about everything. These new Gen Zs, the Instagram, the iPads and everything. So quickly to forget what legends, the word legends. I am. I was waiting. Have done in a football club. Yeah, you're right. That have built the football club. The culture that they created. And that's why you're there today. It's so quickly that people, the fans are so quickly to write up what the legends have done.

1:07:25John Obi Mikel:So if you're asking me that question, how many of these players right now in this Arsenal team can we be able to get into the Invincibles? I'll tell you, maybe... So very quickly, I want to just remind everyone, Yens Lehmann in goals, Laurent, Ashley Cole, Saul Campbell, Colo Torre, Freddie Younberg, you had Robert Perez, Gilberto Silva, Patrick Vieira, Dennis Bergkamp, Thierry Henry. That was the kind of de facto starting 11 of the Invincibles. Ray Parler was there or thereabouts. Yeah, in and out, in and out. Martin Keogh, there was others. But that was, if I think of it, I actually think controversially, John, there's maybe four that get in.

1:08:05Which four? Start from the goalkeeper. Raya would get in ahead of Lehmann. As much as Lehmann, a bit like Roberto De Zerbi, a lunatic. Yes. Don't think he quite gets the credit. But he had one of his best seasons that season. He did. He made some absolutely incredible saves. But to your point, Arsenal are where they are, in a large part due to Raya. I think Raya gets in. this is where we're but until they win that though I'm not going to say

1:08:27John Obi Mikel:Raya gets it so Lehman still because they did win if you go if you go in the Premier League unbeaten unbeaten so you're saying that no one gets it until they I'm telling you right now with the season that Lehman had that season he's the keeper I'll go Lehman I'll go Lehman because I know how it feels listen take nothing away from Raya take nothing away from Raya he's been absolutely superb he's been absolutely superb But if you watch some of the saves that Lehmann did in that season, in that season, it was some incredible saves. And he kept that. He won them game. He kept that in games. And so for me, I might just go Lehmann.

1:09:08John Obi Mikel:Right. We'll disagree. I'll stick Mariah. Right back, fellow African, Laurent. Oh, I'll go Laurent all day. Super, super player. You know, going forward. He was incredible going forward. The crosses he was bringing in, you know, the tackles and everything. He was absolutely a machine. Laurent was an incredible player. And that season, he was absolutely... My day kicks off with a refreshing Celsius energy drink, then straight to the gym. Pre-K pickup, back home to meal prep. Time for my fire station shift. One more Celsius, got to keep the lights on. When the three alarm hits, I'm ready. Celsius.

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1:09:52John Obi Mikel:That season. His season at Arsenal. Laurent was incredible. He made that position his position. He did. He was really, really good. So if you are going to ask me between Timber and Laurent, I'll go Laurent. I want to get more followers from the Gen Zers. I'm going to piss you off here. I go Judy and Timber. I think Timber is vastly underrated for what he does. Inverted. He's phenomenal at coming in. Really, I mean, you're going to hate me for saying this. It's set pieces. he's as vital as Saliba and Gabriel for what they're doing. I think Timber, had it not been for the serious, cruciated knee injury that he's got, I think he deserves a lot of credit for coming back to the standard that he is.

1:10:31I'd give, maybe this is recency bias, I would give it to Timber. So that's us. I mean, already I've got two of the current after team. Saul Campbell, Colatori. Do we break up those two? Remember Saul on this podcast said he doesn't feel he gets the credit. We don't. And that's true.

1:10:49John Obi Mikel:That's true. And then he said, Kolo doesn't either. Oh, Sol was a machine. Sol was an absolute beast. He would get in mind. Sol was an absolute beast. So for me, Sol in. Sol in. Torre, Silva, or Gabriel. Sol in. We agree on that. I would stick with Sol. Listen, Kolo Torre as well is somebody that doesn't get as much credit as he deserves. Kolo Torre was, again, a machine. He was quick. He was good on the board. He was physically very, very strong. Yeah. So if you ask me between Saul Campbell and Gabriel, I go Saul Campbell. Right. If you ask me Saul Campbell, Kusur Saliba, I go Kolotore. What about Tori or Gabriel?

1:11:31John Obi Mikel:That's a different question. I knew you were trying to pair Gabriel with Campbell. I think again, it's much better. You have to choose between ball. So you go Kolotore or Saliba. I go Kolotore. Saul Campbell or Gabriel, I go Saul Campbell. You've done me dirty there. If you gave me the proper choice, I'd go Cambo-Gabriel. But because you paired them... Oh, Saliba Arturi. When I look at Saliba, Saliba, yes, he's incredible. But he's not really, really good on the ball when I look at him. Sometimes he's a bit not sure. He gives the ball away pretty, pretty easily. You know, yes, you can see that teams let him with the ball.

1:12:14John Obi Mikel:They leave him with the ball. They go to Gabriel. Gabriel. They stopped Gabriel from playing out. But they leave Saliba with the ball because they know, you know, he's the weaker of the two. He's the weaker of the two in terms of, you know, playing out from the back. If you're bullying me into it, Campbell to Ray, but I'd love to put Campbell-Gabriel. We all know who we're picking at left. Oh, left back. There's no question about that. We can move on quickly. Ashley Cole. Right. This is where it gets interesting. Midfield four. Does Saka get ahead of Jumberg? You've still not. What have you? You've picked one of the current team.

1:12:43Or have you picked anyone? You've picked Laurent? No, you've not picked one of the current team yet. No, I haven't. Does Saka getting ahead of Jürgen Berg?

1:12:53Are you talking about this season? I'm talking about this Arsenal team. These players. Saka, come on, John. As much as I loved Freddie.

1:13:02John Obi Mikel:But Freddie, again, was absolutely... Freddie was... Freddie Lundberg was... Watch the clips. Freddie Lundberg was quick. He was... Great finisher. Great finisher. He was quick. He was so... He was so good. Saka hasn't done anything. He hasn't won anything. He hasn't won anything for this football club. We can stop this now. Are you just picking the invincibles? You are. Because you're going to come back to it. They've not won anything. Play it on player, John. Saka or Jumbo. This one, I might. Might. Just a slight, slight, slight chance. I might go Saka. Okay. I might just. Just. Just. But Freddie Lundberg was a brilliant player.

1:13:43John Obi Mikel:Freddie Lundberg was a brilliant player. He looked the bloody part as well, to be fair. Midfield two, Vieira and Gilberto. I think the only one that maybe comes into the conversation here is Declan Rice. So who are you pairing Declan Rice with? Patrick Vieira? Yes. So in your opinion. In my opinion. Who do you go for? I'm going Declan and Vieira. You're having Gilberto Silva over Declan? No, I'm having Patrick Vieira. Oh, sorry. Are you pairing those two? No, Paddy Vieira. Patrick Vieira over Rice. Yes. But what I'm saying is... Patrick Vieira was a... Oh, my God. Please, don't even go there. Patrick Vieira was an absolute machine.

1:14:22John Obi Mikel:You know, the tackles, the goals. He was the leader. Yes, he was. If you want to come through Arsenal back then, you have to come through Patrick Vieira. He was the guy. He was the face of the team. Wasn't scared of anyone. No. Stood up to Roy Keane. To Roy Keane, sorry, Roy Keane. Stood up to him so many times. the battles that they had with Manchester United back then. Raikin was the face of it. He was the man that stood up to everyone. He was the face of the team. And what he gave week in, week out, he was chipping in with goals, creating chances. You know, Patrick Vieira was an absolute machine.

1:14:57John Obi Mikel:So if you're asking between Patrick Vieira and Declan Rice... I'm not asking between that. What are you trying to do? I'm trying to... But both of them are in the same position. Declan Rice and Patrick Vieira. Okay, can I pair Declan with Gilberto Silva? Will you allow me to do that or no? You try to find a way for this new team. But you have to pair them with, they play the same position. Central midfield. Declan could do what Gilberto did. Or who are you pairing? But as a number six. Patrick Rivera was a number six. Declan Rice is a number six. What was Gilberto in that team? Him and Paddy were both.

1:15:28Both, yeah. So I'm saying, I think Patrick, without a question, Arsenal fans, he's in, is it Declan? Is it Gilberto? Is it Odegaard? I would pick Declan. but maybe again I'm doing Gilberto Silva a bit of a disservice he was an incredible walk-up winner

1:15:47John Obi Mikel:walk-up winner walk-up winner incredible incredible player but yeah yeah in Declan's corner kick it's too good I need that in my team I'm stirring let's get Declan in because of his corner yes left-hand side I think we all agree Robert Perez and then to be fair this is pretty quick Robert Perez Bercamp Henry Bercamp Henry so I'd have pushed you on Declan 100 % Saka's a maybe Saka is a maybe Saka just in You've got two I've just got two of those players And how many have I got? I think I've got five Yeah No no no I've got two I might piss off Yeah I go Laurent I go Saul Campbell Ture Colatore Ashley Cole Patrick Vieira Declan Rice That's the two Saka Perez Perez Bergkamp Oh Dennis Bergkamp Oh what a player And of course for me the greatest player that's ever played in the Premier League Terry Henry right this Arsenal love it comes to a conclusion a natural end I say it's an Arsenal love it this man ain't an Arsenal fan it's been the longest taking the Mikel on record and there's been an awful lot of coverage on Arsenal are cheats that's what I'm taking away from this I tell you what if Arsenal do win the league you've got to be tuned in for that episode this man's going to be having kittens yeah I'm not a player and I just want to give him you know you know Man City you know Semenyo that's just coming to that Man City team and he's just taking the team to another level you know Semenyo what an absolutely fantastic for me it looks like a steal isn't it for 60 million or what they paid for him incredible player him and Gay in January could be the difference incredible if City go on to win this title you know credit to both both of those guys Semenyo you know left right it doesn't matter where he plays up front he plays as a striker he plays as a left wing right wing you know plays in that little pocket and it looks like he's been in that football club for such a long time and he's just coming in January.

1:17:41John Obi Mikel:It's incredible what a player he is. Absolutely fantastic player. You know, now before when Haaland is not in the team, you know, you can look and think, oh, hold on a minute here. How are they going to win a game? I did it the weekend. I went. Now when you look at it, without Haaland, it looks like, you know, it looks like he's going to get them out of any troubles. You know, look at it. He's the guy to get them out of jail. So he's been absolutely fantastic, Semenio. And again, a manager to go out there, get the players that he believes that can come in, strengthen and improve the squad. And that's what Pep Guardiola does year in, year out.

1:18:15John Obi Mikel:And he looks as hungry as ever. You know, he looks motivated against Pep Guardiola. He looks like he wants it more than ever. He looks like he wants to, again, beat this Arsenal team. And the way they're playing, they're playing some brilliant, brilliant football. You know, Semenyu in that pocket on the other side. You have Cherky. And Phil Foden can get in the team right now. Phil Foden is struggling. It just shows that the quality that Pep Guardiola demands, we can work out from this place. If you're not doing it, you know, he has other players that can come in and do the business. And Cherky, from the player that started the season, he looks fit.

1:18:48John Obi Mikel:He looks leaner. He looks more ready for the Premier League. He's faster. He's quicker. The way he drives the ball going forward. And, of course, Rodri back again. They look like the old city, you know, the way they play with the tempo that they play. They look like a team now. And Ruben Diaz and Gay, they look like a really good team. Ed Norrie again, a player that when they signed him, we didn't think he was going to be this good with defending quality that we thought. It's taking a little bit of time, but now when you watch Ed Norrie play, you know, he's defending really well. He's going forward.

1:19:27John Obi Mikel:He's creating chances, scoring goals, good on the ball, as we know from Wolves. So City look like a proper team right now. And I think this can go all the way to the wire. But again, if you're asking me, you know, who's going to win the Premier League? We can week out. We keep changing our mind, don't we? I don't. I don't. I'm sticking with Arsenal. The corner cake masters. The cheat code. The cheat code. I can listen to you. You definitely think City are going to do it. You do, John. If City can take Arsenal to the last two games. They'll choke. The last two, three games, I think Arsenal will choke.

1:20:03John Obi Mikel:If City can be able to take Arsenal to the last two, three games, the last three games of the Premier League, and they are still a couple of points away, I think Arsenal will bottle it. I think they will bottle it. And whoever wins that League Cup final is a psychological... Yeah, I agree with that. Massive psychological advantage to whoever goes on to win it. Yeah, I agree with that. Massively. So, that is a big, big game. Oh, yeah. Big game. Right, I need to go and lie down, John. Chief person. I'm knackered. Right, do leave us some comments. I think there's going to be an awful lot of comments on this particular edition of Taking the McHale with our good folk at BetWinner.

1:20:41Well done, John. You need to lie down as well, pal. We'll catch you next time on Taking the McHale.

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1:21:31John Obi Mikel:When you're winning football games, it's all well and good. It smiles all around the football training ground. Everybody's smiling. Oh, everybody's happy. When you are not losing, when you start losing games, when you lost one or two, and you get into that losing pattern, how do you get out of it? This is the Premier League. How do you get out of it? And that's where I believe that I think he's the manager to end of the season. You give him that. And then? And then I've always said it, that I think the manager that is best suited for this Manchester United team, football club. It's Thomas Tuchel.

1:22:06John Obi Mikel:But he's gone now and he's signed. It's a medium. I think the England Federation were listening to the rumors and they could see what was going on. I met him a couple of weeks in Brussels. When he just signed, I met him. That's right. You congratulated him. Congratulated him. I know what he told me, but this is between us. And he's happy to sign again and be the England man. But for me, I thought Tomasuku would have been the guy. But now that he's signed his new deal, I believe, yes, Carlo Ancelotti can be that guy. because I know Carlo is absolutely superb in terms of man management and getting the best out of place as well.

1:22:47John Obi Mikel:He is superb. For me, one of the best managers that I've played under in terms of man management. Yes. He knows how to manage the whole institution. He knows how to speak to people, how to talk to players, how to get the best out of place. But I think if they don't get him, the other manager that I think that might be able to do well. I know a lot of people like this. Where are you going, Joe? He deserves you. Is it deserves you? Deserby. Deserby for me. I think Deserby is the guy. I like the way he plays. There was a style of play that he always adopts. He got Brighton playing some fantastic games.

1:23:22John Obi Mikel:He's a lunatic. He's a lunatic, yeah. Sorry, Roberto. He knows that he is. But I think that's what you need at this football club right now. You need a lunatic that can come in and that is strong. Personality-wise, that is strong. And that's something that Carlo Angelotti has. What can you tell Carlo Angelotti that he hasn't won? Well, this is it. You can't tell him nothing. Can't tell him, yeah. Because he's won everything. He will tell you how he's done. You have no, you can't question it. No, it's won everything. You just have to do what he's told you to do. This is it. And I think if you get another manager that hasn't been there, done it.

1:23:55John Obi Mikel:You have to get a manager that's got a strong, strong personality. And for me, I think Roberto is that guy. So Angelotti, number one choice. He's 66 now. If he doesn't take it, you go for Roberto Di Cappi. Interesting. I think he's the guy to get the best out of this Manchester. But I mean, not saying that, I think Michael Carrick has done really well to put his name on the, you know, on top of the list. He's done really, really well. He's cool. He's very calm on the touchline. I like the way he conducts himself, the way he speaks to the press, the way he answers questions. He's a very, very smart guy.

1:24:29John Obi Mikel:You can tell. Yes. So for me, he's put, make no mistake about that. You can argue as much as you want. he's put his name right at the top right at the top you can't come in beat City beat Arsenal the way he did score goals playing attacking football the Manchester United way getting the wingers to you know to put in those crosses we can see the best of Cesco Benjamin Cesco the player we're thinking what the fuck is he doing here he now looks now he looks a player yeah he does he's an animal he's got it all you look at the goal he scored against Crystal Palace that is a player full of confidence the second goal that they scored.

1:25:06Great header.

1:25:06John Obi Mikel:Great header. Seeing the ball coming and knew he was in the backboards, but to run and come in front of the defender and what a header. Yeah, brilliant. That is a player that's full of confidence. That is a player that's improving. And it's good to see that what managers can be able to get, how managers can be able to get the best out of, you know, players. And that's something that I think we're lacking right now at Chelsea. I just think we've taken fast that backwards. Can I lob in another name for you? Eddie Howe? he's the one I would take truthfully Eddie I love what he's done in Newcastle I love they've struggled a little this season Eddie Howell's a fantastic manager when they're at it I just this episode is brought to you by State Farm listening to this podcast smart move being financially savvy smart move another smart move having State Farm help you create a competitive price when you choose to bundle home and auto bundling Just another way to save with a personal price plan.

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1:26:35John Obi Mikel:stagnant isn't stagnant isn't now they are a little it's just stagnant with what is happening with him but I think he's hit the ceiling he's hit the ceiling I don't think there's any more there's no that's why he can't go any higher there's nowhere else he can go anyhow he can't take this football club any higher I don't disagree he can't spend money he can't bring in players we thought when the Saudis took over at a football club. You know, they're going to go out there, splash money, bring the likes of Ronaldo, Messi. Everybody was thinking they're going to bring out Mbappe. But he's done a great...

1:27:09John Obi Mikel:But he's done a fantastic, fantastic job, anyhow. I'm a big, big fan of Eddie Howe. I like what he's done with his Newcastle side. But I just feel right now it's just, it's hit the ceiling. It's just there. There's no, he can't go any high with this team. You can feel, you can feel his frustration week in, week out when I watch him on the touchline. there's no way else for him to go he's won a title for them in 50 or 70 whatever years he's won a title for them he's done what he can do does he need to move on maybe that's what I feel because he's a fantastic coach how much more can he just stay stagnant without moving forward you know it's a question that he needs to ask himself how much more can I take this football club this place if United are going to do an interview process I'm sure his name will be on the list I'm told from what I understand of the situation United are still planning on doing a robust recruitment process it's not a simple case of well done Michael the job's yours they're still going to speak to candidates and they'll make a decision conscious of time John other bits and pieces you've talked about the fact that Chelsea one step forward five back we started talking about Arsenal Chelsea it's taken a long way around sorry for that defeat again it's now three games against Arsenal three defeats William Ressinier he's still giving off vibes I know you're not too keen on me to criticise him but he's he's an interesting character to say the least they've got a big couple of weeks coming up Villa now on Wednesday is massive for Champions League next season Liam Liam Mike I don't know if you're listening but I mean all I can say listen first thing I have to say I'm all for young coaches I'm all for giving opportunity to coaches Young coaches coming up They can showcase their talent Especially, I've said it so many times Black coaches, to give them opportunities to do well But again, if you come in and you are not doing well I'm not going to sit here and say Because, you know You got the opportunity, you're a black coach I'm not going to criticize you When there's something to be said You know what I mean?

1:29:27John Obi Mikel:Yes, he's coming and he's won games. But the games we've won are teams that we should beat. Yep, agreed. The games that he's lost are the games that we can be competitive. We can compete. And it's always Arsenal. Yeah. And he's started to beat us what? Three times. Three times. And we've played with Navu. We haven't played well. We haven't played well. Why are you playing Cole Palmer? Cole Palmer out of his position. So many times I've said it here. So many times I've hinted it. Cole Palmer is our best player.