Obi Mikel meets Roberto Carlos: Inside story of Real Madrid’s Galacticos, Beckham’s brilliance & Ronaldo’s ‘98 woes

0:28Welcome guys, this is the Obi-Wan Podcast. Roberto Callas, welcome to the Obi-Wan Podcast. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. I'm happy. How are you? How are you today? You good? Yeah. Good, good, good. Okay. Tell us, what is life? What is life now with Roberto Callas? How, what are you doing these days? With all my history in football and especially with Real Madrid, I am now an ambassador for the club. I travel the world talking about Real Madrid and I'm incredibly happy. I always say that I work more now than when I was a player. Really? How is that possible? They must love you so much.

1:08They give you a lot of, you travel first class, you travel around the world to represent the club. It must be an honor for you for the club to still, you know, hold you in such a high prestige to make sure that they take you to different places to represent the club. Yes, it's an important thing that Real Madrid does. And I think Madrid was the first among other clubs in the world to have former players become part of the club as ambassadors, directors or mentors. It's important for such a big club to have former players with a great history at the club working with it. That's very important you said that, though.

1:47In Chelsea, no. No? No. Do you think this is something that is so important in such a big club? So that when young players join the football club, players join the football club, they can still understand the culture, the tradition of the football club, because you guys will tell them what the tradition and the culture of the football club is about. Yes, it's something we do at Real Madrid with the academy and the first team. The veterans, the former players act as a mentor. So the youngest understand what Real Madrid is all about. This means that when the young kids join the first team, they already have the mindset of what it means to play for the Real Madrid batch.

2:30Amazing. Do you miss playing football since you retired almost 10 years ago? Do you miss it? I stopped playing more than 10 or 12 years ago. I miss it because we play at the top level. And of course, training every day, flying every time, the football atmosphere is incredible. And I really miss being with my teammates in the dressing room. So many stories, warm-ups, games. Well, I miss the football atmosphere just as much as you do. Yeah, yeah, I miss it too. For me, and for a lot of people, I think you are the greatest left-back that's ever played football. I'll put you right up there. I know I played in the likes of Ashley Cole, and some people can say Maldini as well, but for me, I think you are the best.

3:18Looking at today, the way the fullbacks play, you know, when the fullbacks come in the middle and try to play as a number six or number eight, would you have been comfortable playing that way this day? Depends on the system and depends a lot on the coach. I play in a four-man system, a three-five system, and that depends on my characteristics. For example, Cafu, Zanetti, Ashley Cole, Paolo Maldini. he was more as a center back. Nowadays, fullbacks drift inside a lot, like Marcelo. Back then, Vicente Lizarazu, there are more high-quality players, very technical. Mine was more about strength, just playing open in the left wing, attacking and defending.

4:04But in modern football, fullbacks have a bit more freedom to come inside, outside, score goals, provide assists. I like playing more on the wing because of my physical strength. I don't think I will change my playing style to play more centrally or more facing the goal. I love having the whole wing. I knew I had Ronaldinho, Zidane, Raul, Figo, Beckham, Mauro Silva, incredible players. And always, ball to the wing, the ball to Roberto, the ball to Roberto. And I felt important to the team. Amazing, amazing. Do you think now, obviously, with this system now, because a lot of the teams play this way, Do you think now we're missing out on the next Roberto Carlos?

4:48Because a lot of the managers now, they want this inverted left back, they call them. Do you think we're missing out on the more traditional Roberto Carlos? Modern football is different from my time and your time too. For example, at Chelsea, you have players right-footed playing on the left or Vinicius or Mbappé playing on the left, being right-footed. running more through the middle. Football has changed a lot, defensively and also offensively, so it's a normal evolution. Although, of course, in our time, it's much easier, all in the midfield distributing the ball. Nowadays, one player marks and another plays.

5:29In my time, Roberto Carlos will push forward, Panucci will defend, or Michel Salgado will defend. So, football has changed a lot, and for the better. I don't see that much of difference because I used to cover 11 or 12 kilometers per game. Nowadays, a left back or a right back cover 11 or 12 kilometers. Some things have changed, which is why football is so physical in our time. Quality and technically more show, more spectacular. Today, there is more concentration, a lot more physicality. Played against Ashley Cole and I thought, obviously, I watched you, you know, growing up. And then when I played with Ashley Cole, I was like, oof, this guy.

6:15Always going. And then when I see some of your clips, when I watch the Real Madrid games, I see the way you were.

6:24And I know you would like to be humble. Roberto Carlos, Marcelo, Ashley Cole, Maldini. Who do you think is the best? These are good names, huh?

6:44Maldini was a master, both as a defender and as a captain. Ashley Cole, for me, I wanted to be just like him. Just like Ashley Cole, offensively and also as a defender. Very intelligent. But Marcelo, for me, is a number one. Marcelo was spectacular. He attacked, defended, jumped, controlled the ball, not make opponents. he was a very complete player. Look, Maldini was top. Anzlicol was top. I was okay. But Marcelo, I brought him to Real Madrid and then I watched him grow, winning the Champions League, La Liga, and the Club World Cup. And in my opinion, Marcelo, of all the players on the list, is the number one.

7:24Wow. That's a big shout. Big, big shout. Roberto Carlos out of the list. Okay, Roberto Carlos out of this list. Out of this list. Galacticos, tell me about the Galacticos. You guys, you had some incredible team. Fantastic team. You, Figo, Zidane. Beckham, Raul, Ronaldo. Raul, Ronaldo. Casillas. Casillas, incredibly. Out of all these players that I mentioned, who is the best? Who is wow? Who is the guy? Beckham, of course Beckham. Beckham? Beckham. Because Zidane was top. Zidane was the best. But David Beckham was also a close friend of mine, my role model, the best in training, the best during games, running all the time, all the incredible passes.

8:15He played with all his heart. No matter what people say about Ronaldo, Sissou, Raul, Figo, Morientes, Michel Salgado. But in the four years of the Galacticos, in my opinion, Beckham was the most consistent, the best. Because if Zidane was top, he stayed at the top. but Beckham was for the team. Beckham attacked, defend, he passed. He did everything the team needed. Things that the public didn't see, but we in the team on the pitch saw all these attributes. He was very special. So that's what you guys see. You see the intensity and everything that he brings to the team. During training, he's always training.

8:56The intensity and everything. During games, you guys, you see it. The teammates, you see it. but the fans, they don't see what he's doing for the team. And that's very important. Is that why you guys accepted him very, very quickly into that Galacticos? Exactly. That's why we value the most. Beckham didn't play for the fans. He played for Real Madrid, for his teammates to win. And that's the difference between him and other players individually. He thought about the team while others just play for themselves. So there is a huge difference. his English, full concentration with and without the ball, great mentality, a team player, and of course, having Beckham at Ramadid with all his qualities, his footwork, his strength ability, his assists, his free kicks, was just spectacular.

9:44For me, he was very complete. Betwinner, home of true winners. Let's talk about your fellow countryman. For me, I think a lot of people would say arguably one of the best, if not for his injuries, R9. Please tell me how good, just tell everybody, how good was he? If he wasn't that injury prompt, if he wasn't very constantly injured, do you think he would be, people today will talk about him as they talk about, you know, Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo as one of the greatest players of all time? I met Ronnie in 1992 with the Brazil national team. And from then on, we always share a room. We grow up together.

10:30Great career with PSV, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Brazil national team. Ronnie always be the number one. That's why when people ask me about the best in the world, we always talk about Cristiano Ronaldo, Messi, Zidane, Luis Figo, Beckenbauer, Pelé, Di Stefano, Puskas. And Ronnie doesn't need much discussion. Ronnie has his own story. And all the former players say he's the number one. In everyone's opinion, the number one of all time in Arrira is Ronaldo. So you think without those injuries, without those injuries, he would have been the deepest? The same goes with the injuries. For many people, he is the best player in the world of all time.

11:14And whatever he's chubby or with all the injuries, Ronaldo is the number one. Because I didn't play against him. But now when I watch some of the clips, the way he played, the pace, the power, the dribble, everything, incredible, incredible. Just tell us, please, any story that you think that made him so, so good? Like you said, you've known him for such a long time. Is there any story that you say this is what made him the best player? For me, it's complicated to talk about Ronaldo because I met him when he was very young, and I know him very well, both personally and professionally. I grew up with Ronnie.

11:57I saw the joys, and I experienced the sadness during his recovery, very close to the 98 and 2002 FIFA World Cups, the problem he had at the hotel in Paris. I lived through all the best moments and also the worst. And that has made him even greater. And that's why everyone loves him so much. Because Ronnie has a happy side. Ronnie is always happy, on and off the field. He used to say, Roberto, help me. Roberto, let's have dinner together. Roberto, let's have a drink. Roberto, Roberto, Roberto. Always Roberto Ronaldo. Roberto Ronaldo. And for me, it has been an honor to grow up with him. And even today, to talk to him on the phone and know that he is well and happy.

12:39Today, he is president. Ronaldo, the manager. Ronaldo, the intellectual. Very funny. He's just an spectacular person. You've just mentioned there the World Cup. What happened? 1998. Can you tell us what happened before that final? What really happened with R9? He was sick. What really happened before the final? Ronnie was fine. He was super calm at the hotel. We turned on the TV at 10 in the morning. We watched all the World Cup news, went down to the dining room, we ate, sat there and talked about the Brazil-France match. And when we got back to the room, I felt like he was feeling weak and tired.

13:24But I didn't understand why. Then he turned the TV on again, we lie down and the physical tiredness made him completely shut down I really don't know I don't know if it was an epileptic or it was a convulsion I just felt he had attention and I talked to him a lot on the phone and I asked are you having any problems and he says no I'm fine nothing is wrong but those things can happen in life a lot of pressure Ronaldo at that time was the number one in the world and we had to take great care of him give him a lot of encouragement we need ronnie in the final we lost because france was better but it's not easy for ronnie to handle so much pressure and whether it's an emotional you automatically shut down so for me it was a normal natural thing and today ronnie is very strong that's the most important thing he's still alive, which is a very important first health and then work.

14:25So nobody knew what happened to him. Just all of a sudden he became sick. And before that he was, he was totally fine. Do you think it was food poisoning? Did you think something happened? I mean, it was final against the host country, France, obviously the best player at that moment, all of a sudden became sick. Was that surprising to you guys? maybe something happened? Yes, a lot of people was talking about water poison or food poison. Well, there is nothing. It was more of an emotional issue. There was a lot of pressure on Ronnie. And when he relaxed to go to the match, he felt unwell. But there is no food issue.

15:10They haven't done anything to us. And France was great. They treat us very well. It was an incredible atmosphere. The only problem was there was a lot of pressure on him, a lot of tension at that time. After a season with so many matches, then the injury, a lot of things were going on through Ronnie's head that were not normal. And he felt unwell. And that's the end. That's the end of the story. But then he carried on to play that final. He went on to play that final. Was there pressure on him that he has to play that final? And, you know, there was a few rumors we heard, you know, we heard those few rumors.

15:50He was Nike ambassador, the best Nike ambassador at that time. Not easy. Not easy. So World Cup final, he has to play. Do you think there was pressure from Nike that he has to play in that final? I don't think so. On the day of the match, when he came out of his room to get into the ambulance to go to the hospital, he told me, Roberto, speak to Sico and Sagalo and tell them I want to play. And I said, Ronaldo, I said, Ronaldo, calm down, calm down. And Ronnie told me, it feels like a boss run over me. I said, Ronnie, it's going to be difficult for you to play in the final. And he said, no, no, no, I cannot miss this match.

16:32There is no pain in my body that is going to take me out of this final. After the hospital, when he arrived to San Denise, he said, I want to play. I'm not going to miss this match. I want to play the final. And I said, oh my God, I'm going to speak to Sagalo. Mister, is Ronnie going to play? No, he's not going to play. Edmundo is going to play. And Edmundo in the first 11. Okay, when Ronnie returns from hospital to San Denise, he's already getting changed to the warm-up. everyone inside the dressing room and I think, oh my god, this is going to get messy Edmundo was confident that he was going to play at the end, Edmundo didn't play when Zagallo says, Edmundo, you are on the bench Ronaldo will play, that's when the game ends this is when the match ends for us because the atmosphere has changed the atmosphere was already bad at the hotel with Ronnie's problem the atmosphere had completely changed wow, so he went, the ambulance came and picked him up and took him to the hospital?

17:34Hotel, hotel. Hospital, hospital, San Denise. Hotel, hospital? Hospital Stadium. To the pitch, to the... For warm-up. For warm-up. Yeah. It's Brazil. So at that point, when the manager changed again the lineup, you just, you said the feeling changed. Did you guys then feel, felt, we are going to lose this game? What was the feeling like? No, in hotel. But in the end, when Ronnie came to the stadium and completely changed the starting 11, then the match started, Cafu passed the ball to Ronnie and Barthez came out to clear the ball and headed towards Ronnie. And Ronnie fell down. We all said, oh my God, this Ronnie's dead again.

18:20Ronnie's dead. He's dead. And we all rushed over. We didn't even want to go near him because it was a very heavy and negative day for the team. But in the end, it wasn't sad to lose the final. The atmosphere was clear. We were all friends and everyone was worried about Ronnie. What we wanted was for Ronnie to continue living a happy life. And that's what happened. We lost the final, but it was a very different day for us. We are connected to football. But then, of course, four years later, 2002, right? you went on to win it. And Ronaldo don't sleep. Too much party.

19:02Tell us, how was the feeling after that? After you guys went on to win that? The top moment. The top moment. The best moment. We remember 98 a lot. Everything we did wrong in 98, we did it right. Or we didn't repeat what we did in 98. But the most interesting thing, Brazil, Germany, in the final, during the nap, during the afternoon, Siesta, Ronnie was awake the whole time and that was the best. We forgot about Germany, Brazil 2-0. But those three hours, those three hours before and after the game were the best of all. It was a really fun atmosphere in the hotel, on the bus and in the locker room because we knew Ronnie was going to be a key player.

19:43Before the game, he was checking everything he was eating, no water, no, no. Nothing. Everything was calm. We were just relaxing, telling stories, but always keeping an eye on Ronnie. Ronnie, Ronnie. Today, no. Today, he was amazing. He was spectacular. We know he's a fantastic player. Brilliant, brilliant player. But some of his parties, please tell us. We know he loves to enjoy himself. He's Brazilian. And Brazilian, I know. I'm Brazilian. Exactly. You guys, you have the best parties, but Ronaldo, he has the best party. Tell us about some of his parties. I mean, you've been to some of the parties.

20:25How is the parties? Please tell us. I heard an interview with Ronnie here in Spain with Jorge Valdano, who was working in TV at the time. One of the questions was, everyone says you throw a lot of parties. And Ronnie said, Jorge, I only throw parties when Real Madrid wins. and since we always win, there is always a party. But this is football. It's music, parties and friends. That's the best thing there is because a footballer's life is a maximum of 20 years, today 23 or 24 years in our time, and at 30 or 32, the end of our careers. And we made the most of it. Me, Ronnie, and the other players from Brazil, Ronaldinho and Ronnie, had this need to always celebrate, always to be happy.

21:11and that marked Ronnie's story a bit. That's why people have so much affection and respect for him because he never stopped doing what he really loved. If you have to go on a Saturday night, you want to go party and there is a Ronaldo party and there's a Ronaldinho party, which one will you choose to go and have a good time? For example, tomorrow a game at 5pm, Ronaldinho two goals, Ronaldo two goals, Roberto Carlos one goal, no problem, we can have a party. Apart from that, there is no problem organizing the team system. Only organizing systems for tomorrow's match. I understand. Now we can talk.

21:58Now you can talk. We are former players. There is no problem. I watched him. I admired the way he played. And then I took over his position when he retired. Claude Makalele. You know, we talk about the Galacticos, how amazing you guys were. But how important was Claude Macalele in that Galactico team back then? I was lucky enough to arrive at Real Madrid in 96. And in Real Madrid, we had at that time Fernando Redondo, an elegant Argentinian with a lot of skill. Fernando was spectacular. Then there was Christian Carambeu. and then right after Claude Makelele, who was extraordinary, small, incredible fast.

22:42He was also one of my close friends and I say, Claude, you in front of the defence and then you steal the ball and then give it to someone who knows how to play the ball. A very complete player. It's a shame he was only at Madrid for a short time, but when Makelele was there, he did many important things for the club and for the team. He brought joy to the team. He was an example to follow. People don't talk about him much. They talk more about Claude Makelele with you at Chelsea. But here at Real Madrid, he was a very high-level player. The problem is that he was playing with the Galacticos like Zidane, Figo and Beckham.

23:21But for us, Claude Makelele has been a very important piece and a player for the team. Do you think the fans and the club understood how important he was when he left? Because that he shouldn't have left when he left. Because when he left, the team balance and the team structure was not the same. And they stopped winning games and trophies. Makelele left the club for a technical decision. He left Real Madrid, but then the club immediately signed Cambiasso. So Madrid realized they made a mistake letting Mikelele go to another club. And then they quickly understood the club needs someone like Mikelele.

24:04And that's why they sang Cambiasso, to fill the void by left in the absence of a player such a big like Mikelele. But then Casemiro didn't replace him straight away. Gravesin replaced him. We've heard so many stories about Gravesin. Tomas. Yeah. Tomas. Tell us, is he a madman, as everybody said? He is. Mas todos los equipos hay que tener un loco. Every team needs a crazy guy, and Gravensen was like a real hooligan. Robinho, oh my God, Robinho, will do things that Gravensen want to kill him in training. It was all about Gravensen. Training was like a match. Everything he did in the game, he did it in training, and he had a really, really funny side.

24:54I think he also played to have fun because he knew that there were players who liked to tackle and he came from England. So he was always insulting the referees and the referees didn't understand English, but he was great for the team. Thomas Gravenson was a role model because he was so funny and tough and we need a crazy guy in the locker room just like him. We saw the pictures of the fight with Rubinho.

25:34I was lying on the floor laughing because I knew it was a joke, but Gravenson could not take it. He didn't know it was a joke and Robinho has his Brazilian side, but it was a spectacular atmosphere, a great atmosphere with a lot of friends. A few words about our crowd sponsors. Betwinner is your reliable partner in the world of sports betting. Enjoy placing bets on any sports event with great odds and maximum convenience. Visit betwinner.com now. One other of your country, fellow countrymen, that I think, and a lot of people think that he's a little bit underrated in terms of when you come to greatness, Messi, Ronaldo, R9.

26:24People don't mention him that much. It's Ronaldinho. How good was he? And why is he not always mentioned in that category of Messi, Ronaldo, and R9? Ronaldinho knew his limits for how long he could play at the highest level. I think that when he reached his peak, how can I explain it? He just wanted to have fun, not to be a professional anymore. Now, in this moment of happiness and joy, he thought, I'm going to play football. I will see how long I can go on, but I will keep having fun because his whole story has been spectacular. I think it was more about the professional side than the mental side.

27:07And that's why he lacked a little bit to reach his full potential. He is considered one of the top players in the world, one of the best. But there was a moment when he said, I am tired. Now I'm just going to play football and have a good time. Too much parties? No, I don't think so about that. I think it was more like I achieved everything with football. People are happy with me. Now I have to slow down a bit, enjoy a little bit more about life. But not just parties. I think it was more that he was tired of making so many people happy and looking forward for just to keep going, to keep being considered one of the best in the world.

27:50This question I'm going to ask you now, I know you've said, you've sort of answered it. You've played with some great names, unbelievable names, the Galacticos. Who is your number one? Ronaldo Nazario. Ronaldo Nazario. Ronnie Nazario, for me, has been the best. If he hadn't had his injuries, he had probably had 15 ballon de ores today because Ronaldo, for me, has been incredibly complete. It's not just me saying this. If you ask Drogba or Maldini or Cannavaro or any coach or player in the world, they will say it. Coaches will say it. Mourinho has said it. In my opinion, Ronaldo, in this era, the most complete player, and he will always remain the number one.

28:37Zinedine Zidane. When I watch him, everybody that watch him, we all think he plays football like, you know, like the ballet. You know, like the ballet dance. Incredible. The other day, I was watching Zidane's plays online and on social media and I saw everything he did in France with the French national team, with Real Madrid, with Juventus. It was just incredible. and then I sent him a message on WhatsApp and he replied, number one, Robertinho. It was spectacular. I had the privilege of playing with him right there in front of me. The ball coming in, passing it to Zidane. His prints, you see, like the ballet, like you said.