Obi Mikel wants Rosenior OUT on one condition, shock Spurs admission & blasts CAF decision-makers

25:30You've thrown us under the bus. You've thrown everybody under the bus. You've thrown the club under the bus. You've thrown the players under the bus. You have to make it right before you return. So that's what I'm saying. Again, it comes down to leadership. Leadership. Leadership starts from the top. And right now, from the top of the football club, the owners, the manager. It's not right. It's not right. And it trickles down to the players. That's why we're getting red cards. discipline is all over the fucking place. And again, we've seen players go to national team and make comments like this.

26:02It's just a shit show what's going on at the football club. I hope that we qualify for the Champions League. I seriously do. Because if we don't qualify for the Champions League, I don't think any Chelsea fan will say they want Lear Monsignor to remain at a football club. Right. We go from one shit show to another. See what I did. Sorry, I don't have to do it. Chelsea to Spurs. Sorry, Spurs fans. hey listen they've done one thing right or at least I say they've done it right because I know you like this fella I've heard some tales maybe they needed a lunatic and this bloke is a lunatic oh yeah he's a fucking lunatic Roberto De Zerbe's in it's a five year deal they've obviously given him a huge bonus to keep them up yeah they clearly have he's in now five year deal yeah is he the man to save Spurs oh you've just said it yeah you need they need a fucking lunatic and a good lunatic he is he's a good lunatic But he needs time on the grass, John.

26:54Yeah, but he's not going to get time that. He's not going to get time that way. That's the one. Because they have seven games left. Yeah. And he needs to start quickly. He needs to hit the ground running. He needs to start winning games. He needs to start putting points on the board because that's what Spurs need. He is the perfect guy. I've always said it that maybe Manchester United would have appointed him, but Spurs have gone out and done the business. I think it's the right appointment for Spurs. I think they needed that. They needed a manager with strong personality, a manager that has strong confidence in himself, a manager that can shake up that dressing room, a manager that can get those players to get their ass off their backside and do what is the basic, which is fucking run.

27:36Yes. Run, tackle, fight for the bats, and fight for the football club. That's all they need to do. Keep it simple. Don't complicate things. Don't try to play pretty and give all the flair and everything. No. Keep it simple. Win games. It doesn't matter how you win games right now. In terms of Spurs, fighting for the relegation. It doesn't matter how they win it. Just win. Just win. They have to win. I think even if you're not a Spurs fan, there is that thing, though. I know I'm Chelsea 22, but it's weird to say. There is that thing that you don't want to see Spurs in the championship. Nobody wants to see that.

28:15Everyone wants to see Spurs. the training facility, the players that they have. You don't want to see Spurs in the championship. We don't want to see that. Yeah, we do. I do. Sorry, Spurs fans. I do. It would be phenomenal. Phenomenal to see a club of that stature. Come on, John. Because what it would do is... No, no, no. Honestly, I'm not a Spurs fan. I'm not a Spurs fan. But you don't want Spurs in the championship. Sorry. No disrespect to the championship. I don't want to see Spurs. You would want to see Spurs hosting in that stadium, the likes of Preston, Stoke. No disrespect to Stoke. Oxford United.

28:59Oxford United. Wrexham. Yes. Jesus, no. I want to see it. No fucking way. I don't want to see that. Everyone that's not a Spurs fan, other than John, who's a close Spurs fan now, clearly. But what I want to say, though, is that, yes, the Zerbe, five-year contract. It's a massive statement from the football club to give him five years contract. and to take out any relegation clause in the contract. It's good for them as well, by the way. It's good for them. And it's bad news for the players because they have to know that it doesn't matter what happened, this bloke stays. Yeah, fair. So if you're thinking, after seven games, he's going to fuck off.

29:34I'm just going to play whatever. I'm just going to do whatever I want. No, he stays. The club has made a massive statement saying, we're sticking with him, not with you. Yeah, fair. You can fuck off come the end of the season, but we're sticking with this manager. And that's the decision they've made. And that is a massive, massive decision. And I commend Spurs for doing that. And they have to know those players. Because these Spurs players, honestly, everybody talk about it. They think they're so much better than they are. Oh, that was going to be my question. They think they're so much better than they are.

30:05But they're not. And if there is one man who's going to let them know. Yeah, where they're at. Where they're at. It's fucking deserted. Yeah. He will let these players know exactly the level where they belong. And the level that they belong is the level that they have to fucking run. Do the basics. Run, tackle, fight for the badge of the football club, fight for the fans. That's all you need to do right now. Don't complicate anything. And he knows he doesn't have much time in terms of, you know, his philosophy, the way he wants to play. He's not going to get much time on the grass, in the training ground, to be able to coach this team, to be able to install his philosophy.

30:46He knows he doesn't have that. He has seven games. He has to hit the ground running straight away. He has to start winning games. So I'm sure he must have communicated that to the Spurs board, and they're all on board on the way they want to approach these seven games. It's just win. We don't care how you play right now. Don't try to complicate things in training, because the way he wants to play is very complicated. But if you get it right, oh, it's a brilliant way to play football. It is. It's amazing to watch. It's a joy to watch. I loved watching him when he was at Brighton. The way Brighton was playing, the way he was there, because it's about breaking the lines.

31:21And when you break those lines, it's beautiful football to watch. So he's not going to have time to be able to do that right now. No. All he has to do is win games. And this first play, they have to know that this manager will come in there and he will shake that dressing room up. You have to roll your sleeves up and fucking run. If you're not on board with Deserby, you don't play. It doesn't matter who you are. 100%. You don't play. And that's what I like with him. He's confident. He has a strong personality. He doesn't care who you are. He tells you how it is. But sometimes, you know, your strongest quality might also be your weakness.

32:02He has to find that balance. He needs that balance right now. with the way he approaches things and the way he needs this team to play now in the next seven games. Because the confidence is fragile. Exactly. If he's too, I guess, honest with them. Exactly. I think Igor Tudor was. Yeah. It can go the other way. Yeah. Listen, I know you weren't involved. In fact, I can't think of any relegation battles you were involved in, John. You played the game. How difficult, I read this a lot, I hear it from commentators and other pundits. Yeah. How difficult is it to arrest a psyche? let's be honest about it.

32:37A lot of those Spurs players think they are far too good for the situation. They think they're the bollocks, aren't they? So how do they, and how does Roberto John go about in changing that? You have to tell them the truth. Sometimes the truth is, the truth is the way out. Most times the truth is the way. It's not sometimes. You have to be honest with the players. You have to tell, Mourinho used to tell us that. He tells you where your level is. Mate, don't try your level is there. No, because it's not. You are here. Remain here and try to build. Because that's all you need sometimes. I'm not saying destroy the player's confidence.

33:13He tells you the truth. This is where you belong, mate. But put his arm around you still. But let you know where you belong. Don't think you are the bollocks when you're not. So in other words, Josie, to you, John, you're not a number 10. You're a number four. Exactly what he told me. Don't dribble. Just pass. Don't think because everybody's telling me, oh, you're the number 10 in Nigeria. Everything goes through you. No, when you play here for me at Chelsea Football Club, you're number six. Sit there and let the likes of Frank Lampard and the rest of them, Michael Ballard, go there and score goals.

33:46You sit here. Sometimes you need the truth to be able to help you. Yes, these Spurs fans, they are struggling. They need to start winning games. They need to start putting points on the board. They don't have that much time. And he doesn't have that much time, Deserby. And he knows that. He's an experienced manager. One thing I like about him, if you're looking for a manager that can tell the players the truth, the honest truth, and bring out the best in them is the Zerbe. Because I've seen the way and what he did with Brighton. And what I think he will bring. One thing I think they lacked. Ugo Tudu did not have a good relationship with the fans.

34:25Thomas Frank as well did not have a good relationship with the fans. They didn't win football matches. They didn't win football matches. But one thing that I think De Zabi will do, with his passion, the way he kicks everything on the touchline, his personality, I think that's probably one thing that the Spurs fans will buy into. They want somebody who's going to come in, who's going to be like, you know, a lunatic in the touchline, who's going to challenge everything, who's going to challenge a referee, who's going to kick everything on the touchline, who's going to show passion during games. He'll do that.

34:55He will do that. Make no mistake about that. No doubt. Make no mistake about that. He will do that. Probably get a red card, but they don't need that right now. They need him on the touchline. They need him on the touchline. So if there's somebody that I think is going to get Spurs out of this shithole where they are right now, it's going to be him. And credit to Spurs for going out there and doing the business and giving him five-year contract as well. Telling the players and telling the fans that this is a manager that we want to stick with long-term. If he can be able to get them, you know, out of relegation zone and get them to stay up next season, then he can implement his philosophy the way he wants to play.

35:34He's a brilliant manager. And I think the sort of football that he plays is the sort of football that Spurs fans like. Very, very attacking. Sometimes can be open at the back. But if you want to win football games, you need to attack. Of course. You need to have the ball. And I hear people saying, oh, sometimes it doesn't defend. When you all constantly have the ball, you don't defend that much. You don't defend that much. And that's something that his teams always do. He likes to have the ball. And when you have the ball constantly, you defend less. Yes. And he likes to press as well. He likes to press forward.

36:05He likes to chase the ball when they don't have him. So I think Spurs fans are going to be in for a treat. But they have to, first of all, stay up. And that's his job. He has to make sure they stay up. If they stay up next season, they'll see the best of him. Because I think he's a fantastic, absolutely brilliant manager. By and large, of course, there are still a large swathe of the Spurs support not in favour of Roberto Di Serbi, given his stance on Mason Greenwood. We're not going to get into that for now. By and large, Spurs fans… We're not getting into the politics of the game. No, we're not.

36:37Well, maybe we'll in a bit, but not now. So Spurs have got Roberto Di Serbi. I think it's only, for the vast majority of Spurs fans, the only second smile they've had all month. The second of those, or the first of those rather, came in the League Cup final, John. They weren't involved in it, but their great rivals, Arsenal, losing the first trophy of the season. I know it was a couple of weeks back. A lot of waters passed under the bridge. But that second half performance from Arsenal was not good. City, excellent. Let's give them credit. But Arsenal in that second half, you're shaking your head.

37:06I know where you're going. Oh, my God. You don't want me to start again, you Arsenal fan. Oh, yes. The floor is yours. But no, it wasn't good. Listen, I've said it so many times. What happened after the game, the Arsenal fans? Did you see the comments? They were all coming out and saying how they were not impressed with the game. And that's something that I've said. They know the truth. The only reason why they're not complaining with the style of football that they're playing is because they're on the fucking top of the league. If they were third or whatever it is, they would be asking for it to be sad because the style of football they're playing is horrible.

37:42It's a horrible style of football that they're playing, but they're winning games. Don't get me wrong. People think this is... Oh, you said they were cheats, Joe, last time. I did. You sticking by it? I am sticking by it. I am sticking by it. But there is different ways of winning games. Of course. You can win games whichever way you want, but they will go down as the worst team to ever win the Premier League. They're entitled to winning that way. They're entitled to winning that way. And they won't care. And they don't care, which is fine. They can win each other when they want. But they will go down as the worst team to win the Premier League.

38:18Leicester won better with the style of play, the style of football they play. I agree. So for me, a lot of Arsenal fans came out after the finals and said, Oh my God, this is horrible to watch. We played so poorly. We were horrible. We were this and that. Man, it's been going on for the past four, five fucking months. You just didn't score. You didn't care about it because you're top of the league. This was the final. It was a one-off game. And that's why they're all coming out and saying how bad they were. Mate, they were horrible. The first 10, 15 minutes, yes, they were good. But after that, they lost everything.

38:50But then it comes down again to manager that has the belief on his players. A manager that knows how to win the Premier League. A manager that knows how to win titles. A manager that wants to throw everything into the final. You're going into a final, a cup final, and you're going to pack the balls. You're going to sit back against a team that you know that you have to take the ball off their hands. The only way you beat City, Manchester City, Pep Guardiola in the final, get the ball off him. Get them to defend because they're not so good at that. We all know that they're not so good at that. They hate defending.

39:30And that's why Pep Guardiola always wants to have the ball. When he has the ball, they create chances. with the players that they have. They will score goals eventually. And that's exactly what happened. How can you, Mikel Ateta, with the players that you have, with the money that you've spent, go into a cup final and you play that way? It's a horrible way to play. Second half, they were absolutely zero. City dominated the game. Pep Guardiola and his players knew exactly how to win cup finals because they've been there. They've done it. They know how to win titles. Again, Rodri said it two, three seasons ago.

40:09When Arsenal were coming to play them in Etihad, when they were about to win the league, he said, we looked at their eyes, at the faces of the Arsenal players. We knew they came to the Etihad to get a draw. Not to win. Not to win. Just to get a point, a draw. And straight away, we knew that was the wrong mentality. Straight away, we knew this is the wrong way of approaching games. They were scared. They were nervous. And that's exactly what I saw in that cup final. A team that is nervous, a team that is full of nerves, a team that couldn't handle pressure. When you go into Wembley, it's a cup final.

40:49Of course. There's nothing. You have to leave everything on that pitch. I played in Wembley so many times. We won so many trophies. Mike dropped you throwing that in there, John. We won so many trophies in Wembley. you have it's a stadium where you have to go and just leave everything on the pitch go out there play your best approach the game the right way and Mikel Ateta and Arsenal failed to do that they were so pragmatic they were so rigid there was no creativity Saka looked like he didn't want to be on the pitch you know where is the creativity coming from and I've said it so many times the past 4 or 5 months there is no creativity in this team there is nobody that wants to take responsibility to create chances.

41:33Because, again, what do they depend on? Corner kicks. If you watch that final, there was a point in time where they got a corner kick. And Harvard went going like this. Yay! Yay!

41:46Harvard challenged the fans. Because he's looking and thinking, this is our best chance of scoring a goal. It's laughable. It's horrible. You've been in those finals. And I always, when I look back in the history, The League Cups, let's be honest about it. The start of a season, the League Cups, the trophy that... Yeah. There's more important trophies than the League Cup. It is a trophy. But it is. And Jose Mourinho it was. I always remember Jose in an interview talking about the importance of the League Cup in the... Because of the first trophy. Exactly. And the position that it's in in the calendar, it can actually kind of set you a light, if you will, heading into the business end of a season.

42:24he made it an art form win the League Cup in February or March and it can carry you through to bigger trophies it does Guardiola did it this was a huge opportunity so I guess the question John is how do you see that impacting Arsenal does it impact them at all or ultimately you know Ian Wright afterwards was saying it's probably it's maybe a good thing they've lost this I mean they can now really kind of they've learnt their lesson they can kick on how do you see it? First trophy of the season it gives you a massive massive psychological edge. Massive psychological edge. And that's how we look at it.

42:59You know, when you win that, it sets you up. Takes the pressure off. You taste what it feels like winning trophy. And I think for Manchester City and the new players that Pep Guardiola has brought into the football club, winning that trophy, seeing the chemistry that it brought, you can see Pep hugging his players, kissing his players, whichever way. Sometimes a bit much. As he always does. I thought that was interesting, John. He celebrated his if it was the Champions League. Yeah, but it's a manager that was sort of under pressure. He doesn't want to go two seasons in a row without winning any trophy for Manchester City.

43:33And for him to win that trophy feels like it set them up come the rest of the season because they're out of the Champions League. Now they can concentrate. League and FA Cup. League and FA Cup. And he's looking at it thinking, for this new team, this new city side, it's a huge psychological edge for this place because now they can taste what it feels like winning trophies. And this is what I want them to taste. And now the likes of Cherokee and all these players, Semenyo, Gate, now they've tasted what it feels like winning trophies with Manchester City. And for Arsenal, it's a massive blow. Massive, huge blow.

44:10They're still in the Champions League. They're still in the FA Cup. And they're top of the league. And they're top of the league, Premier League. And City now can solely concentrate on the Premier League. So it's a massive, massive psychology. And I think whoever gone on, we said it, whoever gone on to win that League Cup might have the chance of winning the Premier League. But I still think Arsenal are sitting in the right position in terms of going on to win the Premier League. Nine points. Nine points is a huge, huge gap. Six, yeah, game in hand, they play each other, exactly. But don't forget, the Champions League is there.

44:44You have to, he wants to win the Champions League. Is he going to be like, okay, you know what? I don't want to win the Champions League anymore. I'm going to concentrate on the Premier League. No, you can't do that. You know what he does? Lance, you're off to international football. Go for a few days. And then get back. 11 players. That is horrible. That's horrible. But again, this is Mikel Ateta. You know, he wants to do everything. Every single thing he wants to do. Again, I'm not going to say it's cheating. But again, it's detrimental. Again, now, for England. What happened? I know it's a friendly game.

45:14He doesn't care about England though, John. Exactly, he doesn't. But England, I don't want to suffer for it. I know it's a friendly game. It's a good game. But your last game before the World Cup, you want to win that game. You want to make a statement. You want to win a game going into the World Cup. Of course, England. And England lost the game now. But Mikhail Arteta doesn't care. But he doesn't care. But again, Thomas Tuchel and the FA shouldn't have granted so many players. I'm going to ask you a question. To go back to... No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I don't want you getting in trouble. They have to.

45:42They have to represent their national team. They have to. It doesn't matter whether you want to win your Premier League, your first Premier League in 22 years, 23 years. It doesn't matter. Your national assignment is your national assignment. City had the likes of Foden was there. Nico O 'Reilly was there. So why Arsenal? Every player left the national team. They've got injuries. No, no, no, no. Again, you can't sit here again. If I sit there and say that's cheating, is it cheating? You have to respect the national team. You have to make sure you do what's right. And I just think that this Arsenal players, what happened now has happened and it's become England has gone on to lose the game.

46:31And everybody would talk about it and say, they shouldn't have let Thomas Tuchel and the FA shouldn't have let all the Arsenal players leave. You know, all in one go. Madweke, Saka. Madweke, Saka, Rice. Ben White stayed. Okay, Ben White stayed, because he hasn't been there for, what, two, three years? He decides whenever he want to come play to England. He's not a star. Which I thought was a horrible... I mean, listen, Thomas Tuchel knows what he's doing. Of course he does. If anyone knows what he's doing, it's Thomas Tuchel. But if a player has rejected the national team for two years or more...

47:01Since Qatar. Whatever it is, left the national team. Four years. And now he's been like, oh, now I'm ready. Come on, man. I mean, he got booed. And then you drop one of the best right back. Trent. Trent Alexander-Arnold. not in the squad. I don't understand. I don't understand that. And you're picking him over a player that has rejected the national team to represent his national team. He rejected to wearing the colors of his national team. And you pick that player over a player who's playing right now in his, you know, Real Madrid playing games. Whether he doesn't defend or what, there's games that you need him.

47:45Of course. In this walk-up, there's so many, there's games that England will be so much in control of the game. And you need Trent Alexander with his crosses, with his delivery, with his, the way he plays the game. You can, you can chop and change. If you think there's a game where you need to defend, yes, okay, put him on the bench. But to say that Trent Alexander is not in, 37 man squad, not 30, not 20, 37. 37. He gets in. He was not in the squad. No, I know. I know. It's horrible. Yeah. It's horrible. I don't know what the situation is. I have no idea what the situation is. Thomas Tuchel knows better, but I just don't understand it.

48:26And that's it. For me, in terms of what he gives you going forward, there will be games. We know a lot of England opponents are going to sit in a compact. His delivery is from set pieces. I know you hate them, John, but... That's not better. That's not better. Him and Rhys James. That's not better. Phenomenal. Right now in the Premier League. I question that as well. Listen, I like this because I'm making tenuous links but I think they work. We go from Trent Alexander-Arnold to I tell you who's missed him this season is Mohamed Salah and I want to get to this man because of course the other big headline in the last week or so he's announced he's leaving Liverpool the end of the season.

49:00Obviously all the talk has been where does he go next? Where does he rank in the list of Premier League grades? Listen, you know the bloke and we've talked a lot about Mo Salah on this podcast various stories and when you look at what he was at Chelsea to what he is now I mean I think you've admitted you never saw that No, no, no. I think JT said the same. No, we never saw the progress. No, we never saw. Nobody thought that Mosa would become the player that he is today or going on to achieve what he's achieved today. I mean, credit to the kid. Credit to the lad. A man now. He's a man now. It's weird to me thinking you're older than Mosa.

49:33It's that fresh face of yours. No, listen, what he's going on to achieve. I mean, you know, when you got rejected by big clubs, especially Chelsea. And then you got off and improve yourself, the mentality, the discipline that he had in terms of trying to improve himself and try to get better and coming back and showing everybody that we've missed out on a top, top player, a Premier League great, a player that has gone on to break records and won titles for Liverpool. For me, it's a huge, huge news. If you're a Liverpool fan or not, I mean, for Mo Salah to be leaving the Premier League after so many years.

50:15I mean, Liverpool's trophy cabinet was empty before Mo Salah arrived. Before Mo Salah arrived at Jürgen Klopp. It was empty. From a Premier League point of view. Champions League, it was empty. So for him to go on and to be this successful with the football club, I think what happened in the summer is probably what's put him off. I think he's looked at that situation, what happened in the summer with the manager benching him and saying and not playing in so many games and his look that he thought I think he left he went to the African combination thought you know what I'm gonna come back but I'll leave at another season I think he made a decision there there and then that yes I will come back but I will leave at another season because he felt disrespected he felt that he should not been given the respect that he deserved and some of the Liverpool legends came out and absolutely bashed him and said, oh, no, you shouldn't have done that.

51:09And I said that he deserved, if one player deserved to come out and do and say what he said and want to be on the pitch, it's Mo Salah because of what he's achieved at that football club. And it doesn't matter how you look at it. He's a Liverpool legend. He's a Liverpool great. No doubt. And somebody as well, some people win him seven, eight, whatever, in terms of the great Liverpool. No, I have Mo Salah top three Liverpool great. I do too. You know, I have him top three a Liverpool great. Yes, you can mention Daglish, probably. Gerrard. Salah. And I think Mo Salah is, for me, top of it. And that's how highly I rate him.

51:46That's how highly I think I rate him and every Liverpool fan rates Mo Salah because he's been absolutely superb. Week in, week out. Scoring goals, winning games, creating chances, winning trophies, breaking records. He's just absolutely superb. And this is a new, this is going to be a new Liverpool side without Mo Salah. It's just going to be a new Liverpool side. And I think Anasla will have his now, his Liverpool side next season. I think that's where he's going to be judged. If they start Paulie next season, I think he's gone. I don't even know he's going to stay come the end of the season.

52:26If they don't make the Champions League. I was going to say to you, there's a lot of comparisons. Obviously, Anasla has won a Premier League title. Liam Resignor has not. but if Liverpool fail to make Champions League I think they'll pull the pin. I think so. Xabi Alonso. I think so. I do. I think if they fail to make Champions League. But I think that's going to be too harsh because winning the Premier League has just he bought himself some time. You can't sack him straight away. Even if they don't make Champions League. Even if they don't make the Champions League because he won the Premier League title last season.

52:54He did. I think for me that's just bought him some time. You ever seen he hasn't won anything? I know he hasn't. I know he's only been there a couple months but No, it's different. What I'm saying is he needs to make the Champions League. Because we were in a good situation before he took over. Yes. But right now, we're not there anymore. But champions to not making Champions League, you'd still stick with slot? I will still give him time. I will still give him next season. I will still give him next season. Okay. But I don't think the Liverpools want that. I don't think the Liverpools are buying what he's selling.

53:23No. Because right now, they want him out. They want him out. And if Mo Salah leaves next season, who is he going to replace Mo Salah with? Because Liverpool, I think they've done a good business there in terms of getting Mo Salah off their books. Because 400 ,000 a week, that is huge. That's massive. Now they can use that money. They can spend that money, bring in a couple of players that they can pay those salaries and they can strengthen the score. So for me, I think it's a good piece of business for Liverpool and also for Mo Salah. Where does he go? I don't know. Of course, everybody thinks he's going to go to Saudi Arabia.

53:55Of course, he's going to go get some money. And it's not like he needs the money, does he? I think he goes But listen If he goes to Saudi Arabia He gets 100 million a year Or 200 million a year That's Mental Sign me up I think I actually think He ends up in Italy John If he has not been Italy I think he goes back to Italy I think there's still An ambition there To win the Champions League It's only 33 34 next birthday I've got a feeling When I interviewed him Over here for an event He was talking about He loved Italy Family loved Italy Yeah And I watched this space On Italy being Destination for Salah we agree.

54:30Top three Liverpool. Don't let anyone else tell you otherwise in our opinion. In terms of where he sits. Now you've said this a lot to me on this podcast. Thierry Henry is the Premier League's greatest. Yes. Does Mo get close? Where is Mo? Mo top five. Is Mo top three in your opinion? Premier League great stuff. Premier League great. I've always said Thierry Henry is number one. Thierry Henry is number one. And when you look at the longevity as well. I know a lot of people don't talk so much about it. You know, you know, listen, things happen, things happen. I think Ryan Giggs, Ryan Giggs for me, the longevity of what he did for Manchester United for me, it's crazy.

55:13You know, you talk about Wend Rooney, you talk about Frank, you know, Frank Lampard, you talk about Roy Keane, you know, Patrick Vieira, Didier Drogba, John Terry. These are top top players. And I think Mo Salah has had the right to be in that conversation. I think Mo Salah has had the right to be in that conversation. No doubt about that. No doubt about that. Kevin De Bruyne, you know, these players have had the right to be in that conversation. So I rate him as high as I rate those guys. You know, but just Jerry Henry for me was just, yeah, he was different. He was absolutely different. When you talk about player being unplayable, He was, for a couple of seasons or so, he was just unstoppable.

56:03He did what he wanted. Unstoppable. Yeah. And it was absolutely crazy. So for me, Mo Salah is ranked up there. But whatever he chooses to do next, you know, I wish him well. Fantastic guy. Good guy. Family man. Loves his family. Loves playing football. And it's just a shame. But listen, time catches up with everybody. You know, it's just what it is. You know, you can't be somewhere forever. And I think he's living at the right time. But I just think that what happened in the summer, what has happened with the football club, between Moore and the football club, there's a friction there. I don't know if it's all good and well right now, but I think that's just painted some sort of not a good way.

56:46But I hope he lives. Right now he has a few games to, you know, for the fans to say goodbye and everything and sort everything out with him and the fans and the football club. So for me, absolutely fantastic. Credit to Mo Salah. What a player. What an absolute player. On his day, no doubt. Of course, one of his big ambitions still left in his career is to win the African Cup of Nations with Egypt. He'll be playing in the World Cup this coming summer with Egypt. See where I'm going with this as well. This isn't just putting together, John. I mean, it's been a few weeks this, and I've been dying to have this conversation with you because, listen, again, you know, a proud Nigerian as you are, you've spoken so eloquently and brilliantly about in defence of African football, its position, the perceived, I guess, the perceived kind of view that it's a second class kind of, well, I was going to say league, but continent in its football.

57:37But you must admit, the look is not good when we saw the announcement that Morocco were being awarded the African Cup of Nations 58 days, 58 days after they lost the final to Senegal. Horrible. horrible, horrible. I mean, ludicrous, ludicrous decision. Good. I have no idea where that's come from. Absolutely zero idea. The incompetence of the people that again run the, govern the football in Africa. not just Nigerian FA I talk about the continent the continent in general forget about the football we watched the African Cup of Nations we saw the type of football we play we saw the brilliance of the type of football that we play the quality that we have amazing football the players that we have the talent the potentials that we have in Africa.

58:52Morocco hosted an absolutely fantastic tournament. Guess what happened in the final happened, but shouldn't take away what we saw on the pitch. Yes. Shouldn't take away what we see with, again, African coaches improving, getting better. It's been how many times now an African coach has led an African team to winning the African Cup of Nation. we're growing in terms of our football in terms of our coaches we're developing but we're not quite on the same level as the people running the game the football is developing the coaches are developing but the people running the game the bureaucracy is just getting worse and worse absolutely disaster of a decision I don't know where they got it from 58 days after the tournament.

59:48If you feel that was the case, you had time in that game. If there was an article or somewhere written in the law, the referee was there. The referee could have. Forget about the referee was there. The cast president was there. Whoever was in charge of the article was there. With Senegal. Why didn't you make that decision there and then? Correct. I said it. I was in the studio with Channel 4. I said it. I don't condole what Senegal did. And it was wrong. It was wrong. They need to be punished. They need to be punished. I said that. But if you wanted to make a decision, make it there. Correct. 100%.

1:00:24You don't wait 58 days after the tournament to come out and make some bullshit decision. Where did it come from? Who sat in this decision? What happened? Politics. How many people were in this decision-making? Politics. Now, I don't want to say money's been passed around somewhere. No. But that's the corruption. That is the corruption. when I talk about African football and the people that run the game. People mistake things when I say it. People that run the game, not African football. Don't put African football there. People that govern the game. When are they going to start taking responsibility of their decisions?

1:01:06When are they going to be held accountability for spoiling the game, for putting the game in this kind of situation? when will they come out and say we're making huge, huge decisions that affect the game in the wrong way? Senegal's are champions of the African nations. And they have the right to still parade the trophy, to still call themselves champions because they were champions. They played the game, they won the game. If you felt you cough, if you felt that you had to make a decision there, make it there on the pitch because they walked out for so many minutes. 17. 17 minutes. 17 minutes.

1:01:47You have the right to say, you know what? You've walked out. Correct. Game is done. Correct. Game awarded to tomorrow. Nobody would have argued that. We completely agree on that. Because nobody condoned what they did. I wasn't in support with what they did. You cannot walk out on the football pitch and come back. No, you can't do that. There were phone calls. Sergio Mendes speaking to the president who was somewhere. The fuck? I don't know. And he told them to come back on the pitch. What was that? It was a mess. It was a mess. but I don't condone that. But this decision that has just happened, it's an absolutely shit show.

1:02:19It's an absolute disgrace. The stigma that has been portrayed of African football being shit. This is where it comes from. Decisions like this. This is where it comes from. When you make decisions like this, when you have the wrong people running the football club, running the FA, people who are in charge, who have absolutely zero idea what it feels like to play football, to run the game, to govern the game, to make decisions that will affect the game in the right way. This is what happens. Because they make decisions based, not based on the game, not based on what will improve the game, not based on what they see in terms of the African game, football, moving forward.

1:03:02Because when you make decisions like this, it's a shit show. It wraps the game. It puts the game in a very, very sad and horrible place. And you know what it leads to, John? It leads to certain people looking down. And again, the perception of African football is it's second class. I will always defend African football. Of course you will. I will always defend because I played African but nations. I won African but nations. I know what a fantastic tournament is. I know what it is. These things don't help it. These things don't help it. The perception of it. The perception of it doesn't help it.

1:03:33These decisions don't help it. Definitely doesn't. But take nothing away from the football. Take nothing away from the players that we see. Take nothing away from the quality that we have in Africa. The physicality that we have. The athleticism that we have. The players. We saw it in the African nations. The quality. Some of the goals we saw. Brilliant, brilliant. And I also believe that in this World Cup, make no mistake about that, we will see African teams doing really, really well. Ten nations. You're ten. Ten nations. Ten countries that will do really, really well. But when you make decisions like this, when things like this come out, and those people sit on the boardrooms there.

1:04:10They sit in the offices there and they make decisions like this. It makes the African players look bad. It makes the African players look bad. You're putting Senegal in this situation. You're putting Morocco in this critical situation where Hakimi came out and said, I don't want it. Of course. Of course I don't want it. Don't give me that because I don't earn it. I was beating fair and square on the pitch. I don't want to be handed a trophy that I don't deserve. There's my medal. No, I don't want it. And they're right to do some Morocco. They're doing the right thing. So Senegal, in your mind, champions.

1:04:44Still champions. If the decision was made there and there, when they walked out of the pitch, I would support. You can argue. I couldn't argue about it because it was the wrong thing to do. You can't walk off the pitch. It doesn't matter what. You have to finish the game and then you can make your complaints. They walked off the pitch. So Kalf or whoever was in charge should have made that decision there. They should have stand their ground and make the bold decision there on the pitch and say, you know what, it doesn't matter what happened. It doesn't matter how the game ends. The rules are the rules.

1:05:17It was written in the article, whatever it is, that if you walk off the pitch, the game is awarded to the opponent. And then what you could do after the fact, you could even say if they're not happy with what they did, the punishment for Senegal. The idea I put forth was, tell you what, leave them because to your point, John, they won it fair and square. Maybe just say, you know what, because we cannot condone your actions, you're actually not going to be allowed to defend it in two years' time. That would be better than pulling it. Then pulling it. Again, people making decisions, it's amateur.

1:05:54When I talk about people that run whatever, you know, again, I like to talk about people taking responsibility. Because the only way you can move forward in life, the only way you can be successful in whatever you do is to take responsibility when you know you've done something wrong. Hold yourself accountability when you've done something wrong. In Africa, we don't do that. And these people that are top of the tree, they don't do that. They hate doing that. They hate when you ask them to take responsibility. They hate when you ask them to take accountability because they don't want to do that.

1:06:35Pass the buck. Exactly. And I don't want to sit here constantly and talk about the corruption that runs the African football. Yes, they might counsel me, Chris. They might say, you know what? Fuck you, Mikael. You're never going to do anything African whatever. I don't care. I try to say the truth all the time. And whether you like it or not, the truth is the truth. The decision, people that make the decisions for us that runs the game, be it Nigeria, be it the CAF, they have to make right decisions. Right now, they're not. They have the wrong people running the game. Until you have the people that have the game in the right place, that want to see the game progress, that have nothing to hide, that will be open, transparent, so that people can see where this is going.

1:07:32That is going. How do we improve the game? How do we improve the standard of the youth? How do we improve in the academy? How do we put money in the academy to improve what we have, the potentials, the skills, the qualities that we have? Because we do have that in abundance in Africa. But right now, we don't put the money in the right places. We don't invest in our youths. We don't invest in the academies. How do we get better? We can't get better. What we are seeing, the quality of the football that we're seeing, it's absolutely fucking fantastic. All we have to do - But it's been undermined by this.

1:08:07Is invest a little bit more. Be transparent. Do things the right way. When you make decisions like this, where a country has suffered, the place has suffered to win, to win in the African combination. And you taking that off them after 58 days, you've made this some fucking stupid rules or whatever you've come up with. You said it, John. It's a shit show. It's a shit show. It's horrible. So for me, I don't understand it. Yes, Senegal, they have the right to continue to parade the trophy because they ended. They won the game fair and square on the pitch. I don't condone what they've done, but that decision should have been made there and there on the pitch.

1:08:47Same day. Calf would have come out and made the strong decision and said, yes, you've worked off. The game is disqualified. We are awarding Morocco the title. And credit to Morika Mosei, credit to Hakimi coming out and saying that, I don't want it. Don't give it to me. We haven't earned it. I haven't earned it. So for me, this is a strong statement. And I honestly, I huss off to him. And yeah, but again, we have to do things right in Africa. You know, it's becoming a norm. It shouldn't be a norm. It is a norm. It shouldn't be an arm because you know, things should be done right. Things should be done properly.

1:09:32Again, you know, Nigeria not qualifying for the World Cup. It's going to be an absolutely fucking fantastic tournament. And we're not going to be there. And the people who are running the game are still there. You know, they're still there. They haven't come out and say, this is the reason why we haven't qualified for the World Cup. What, two, three times in a row? They haven't come out and make any statement. They haven't come out and say, this is what we have to improve. this is how we need to get better. They haven't come out and say anything that's going to give the Nigerian people some sort of confidence going forward.

1:10:03Nothing. No accountability. No responsibility. Nobody's been held responsible for what has happened. How do we improve the game? How do we get better? How do we make sure next year when we get to the qualifiers of the World Cup, we do things right? We put things in the right structure. We create the right structure for these players. When they come, they have to make sure that we qualify for the next World Cup. Nobody. It's all gone quiet. It's all gone quiet. Like it's never happened. Yeah, exactly. The story moves on. The story moves on. Again, how do we improve? How do we get Nigerian football to improve?

1:10:41Don't tell me we don't have the quality because we do. Don't tell me we don't have one of the best strikers right now in the world. Don't tell me the quality of football we played at AFCON. We played one of the best football. In the group stages. Some brilliant football we played. We got a good manager that's got to play good football. How do you put things right? Off the pitch. Off the pitch. So that next time when we find ourselves in this situation of qualifying for the World Cup, we know what we have to do right. We know where we've made mistakes. We have to correct those mistakes. We have to put things right.

1:11:22How do we do that? Again, it's responsibility. It's going to be a theme on the spot. It's accountability. Nobody's doing that. If you go to the FA now and say, show me the books, how do we fail? Nobody's going to fucking do that. I don't think there's anybody in the fucking office anyways. What book? They're going to ask you, what book are you talking about? Right. I want to wrap up because there's a bit of a theme. It's been shit shows all over the show, whether it be Chelsea Spurs, the African Cup of Nations, I mean, the Nigerian FA, I want to finish the shit show that is your Instagram, John.

1:11:54It's been hacked. It's been, you've had so many problems. I think Arsenal fans have found a way into the matrix. Yep. But a big shout out to Antiban. Yeah. Pro, because they have dug you out of a hole. Yeah, Antiban. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well done, thanks team. Yeah, I don't know. You've got your fan. Somebody probably has no fun went in and hacked my Instagram. But we're back. Yeah, we're back. We're back. Thanks to Antiban.pro. I mean, if you ever get your Instagram, you never know, they might hack your Instagram as well. I'm not famous enough, John. No one gives a, you don't want to. If you ever do, contact them.

1:12:28They're absolutely brilliant. I mean, it was very easy. They were so helpful. And yeah, and they got me back on track. Give them a follow. Sorry about that, Arsenal fans. I'm back on track. So yeah, if you ever do that, make sure you give them a shout out. You can't silence this man by hacking his Instagram. He's back. Right. Obi-Wan Podcast made possible by of course the good team at Betwinner it's been a long episode this we've covered an awful lot of topics we can take a bit of a breather and we're going to be back with you very soon some big names of course the big names keep on coming Obi-Wan Podcast made possible by Betwinner done that for now